| 00:00:07 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
Host: WE ARE HERE TODAY TO TALK ABOUT YOUR BOOK, "THAT'S NOT WHAT THEY MEANT" RECLAIMING THE FOUNDING FATHERS FROM AMERICA'S RIGHT WING. HOW HAS AMERICA'S...
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| 00:00:16 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
Guest: WELL I THINK THE FOUNDING FATHERS ARE PART OF THE WILDERNESS IN AMERICA AND WE ALL CLAIM THEM FOR A LOT OF DIFFERENT POLITICAL POINTS. I THINK...
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| 00:01:55 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
AMERICA'S RIGHT-WING ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? >> Guest: I
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| 00:01:57 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
STARTED WITH GLENN BECK AND AS A MATTER FACT, I DETERMINED I WAS GOING TO WRITE THIS BOOK ABOUT 15 MINUTES AFTER I RAN INTO GLENN BECK'S TRANSLATION...
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| 00:04:13 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
WOULD YOU EXPECT ANYTHING MORE FROM PROPAGANDA AND POLITICAL LEADERS? IN OTHER WORDS IS THIS WHAT WE MIGHT EXPECT WHEN SOMETHING AS COMPLICATED AS THE...
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| 00:04:35 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
TO A LARGE EXTENT YES AND IF YOU LOOK HISTORICALLY, IT HASN'T CHANGED MUCH OVER EVEN THE LAST 200 YEARS. THIS KIND OF EERIE PROPAGANDISTIC VIEW OF HISTORY....
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| 00:05:22 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
TALKING ABOUT THIS POINT OF BEING MORE COMPLICATED, LET'S SAY THEY HAVE VERY GOOD COPY EDITORS WHO WENT BACK AND SAID INSTEAD OF THE FOUNDERS, MANY...
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| 00:05:43 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
I WOULD TOTALLY ELIMINATE THE UTILITY OF WHAT I CALL THE FOUNDERS -- >> Host: IT'S A
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| 00:05:52 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
WONDERFUL METAPHOR. >>
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| 00:05:53 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
Guest: WHEN I FIRST DECIDED TO DO THIS, I WASN'T GOING TO WRITE A BOOK. I WAS JUST GOING TO WRITE A BLOG BECAUSE I THOUGHT THAT WOULD BE ENOUGH. MY...
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| 00:07:12 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
THERE ANY HOPE FOR PROPAGANDIST AS YOU DESCRIBED AND HAVE A MEANINGFUL CONSTRUCTIVE CONVERSATION ABOUT THE FOUNDING FATHERS? >> Guest: I THINK IT IS
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| 00:07:22 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
AT ODDS WITH WHAT MOST PROPAGANDISTS ARE TRYING TO DO. >> Host: LET ME
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| 00:07:25 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
ASK YOU ABOUT THE FOUNDING FATHERS APART FROM WHAT THE BLOGGERS HAVE SAID ABOUT THEM. MAYBE THEY HAVE BEEN TREATED WRONG BY THE PEOPLE YOU TALK ABOUT...
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| 00:07:41 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
BELIEVE SO. THESE ARE VERY REMARKABLE PEOPLE WHO CARE DEEPLY ABOUT THEIR COUNTRY AND CARE DEEPLY ABOUT IDEAS. THEY WERE ALSO A VERY FLAWED, VERY OFTEN...
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| 00:08:41 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
TAKE FOR GRANTED WHAT A REMARKABLE MOMENT THAT TIME WAS. THERE WAS NO STABLE DEMOCRACY IN WORLD HISTORY BEFORE THAT. THERE WERE CITY SAIS IT DIDN'T...
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| 00:09:10 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
THINK YOU CAN'T BUILD A REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY ACROSS A VERY LARGE POPULATION AND VERY LARGE LAND AREA WITHOUT COMPROMISE. I THINK IN OUR PRESENT...
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| 00:09:47 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
THE CONSTITUTION WAS SOMETHING ABSOLUTELY REMARKABLE FOR ITS TIME. THE CREATION OF A REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY ACROSS 13 LARGE LAND AREAS THAT HAD DIFFERENT...
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| 00:10:48 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
ARE VERY POLARIZED TIMES WITH CONGRESS IN THE 1790s POLARIZED OR MORE POLARIZED THAN TODAY. IN YOUR BOOK YOU THINK THE MEDIA IS POLARIZED TODAY WE HAVEN'T...
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| 00:11:09 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
IT ANY BETTER THAN WE LIKE IT AND THEY GOT MAD ABOUT IT. I HAVE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO TRACK THIS AND MAYBE YOU KNOW WHO SAID IT, POLITICS IS COMPROMISE...
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| 00:11:29 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
MATCH. >> Host: WHAT DO WE DO TO CREATE THE SORT OF ENVIRONMENT NOW THAT WE CAN BOTH COMPROMISE? IS IT JUST SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS WHEN A NATION IS...
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| 00:11:40 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
Guest: I THINK THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF TIMES IN OUR HISTORY. I THINK THAT THE CONSTITUTION IS A VERY GOOD -- I CALL THAT IN THE BOOK THE ENGINE OF...
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| 00:12:43 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
THE END, THE FOUNDING GENERATION HAD THE COUNTRY TO CREATE, AND THEY WERE WILLING TO GIVE UP ALMOST EVERYTHING BUT THAT. WE HAVE GOT PROBLEMS TO SOLVE...
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| 00:13:32 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
TODAY. >> Host: NOW WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT SOME OF THE SUCCESSES AND SOME OF THE HISTORICALLY UNPRECEDENTED THINGS OF THE FOUNDERS DID BUT THERE WERE ALSO...
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| 00:13:58 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
THINK THAT THEY DO. I THINK THAT WE HAVE TO BE VERY SENSITIVE ABOUT THAT AND WE HAVE TO REALIZE THAT THIS WAS A GREAT LEAP FORWARD. IT WAS NOT A GREAT...
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| 00:14:50 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
Host: GIVEN HOW DIFFERENT THINGS ARE TODAY, HOW DO WE GO ABOUT AS WRITERS AND POLITICAL FIGURES AND JUDGES AND AUTHORS, HOW DO WE GO ABOUT TRANSLATING...
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| 00:15:26 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
EASY. THAT'S A VERY DIFFICULT TASK AND I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I OBJECT TO WITH SO MUCH OF THE PROPAGANDA THAT I WAS RESPONDING TO WAS THAT IT...
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| 00:16:37 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
MORE SPECIFIC ABOUT WAYS IN WHICH YOU ARE FRUSTRATED WITH HOW THESE PROPAGANDISTS AND POLITICAL FIGURES ARE TALKING ABOUT THESE ISSUES. SOME OF THE ISSUES...
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| 00:17:05 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
THE U.S.. THEY WERE FOUNDING FATHERS WHO ARE VERY RELIGIOUS. THERE WERE FOUNDERS WHO BELIEVED THAT THIS WAS GOING TO BE A CHRISTIAN NATION AND THAT WE...
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| 00:19:06 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
A GOOD EXAMPLE OF SOME OF THE PROBLEMS YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT BEFORE AND FINDING COLLECTIVE INTENTIONS. YOUR OUTLINED WHAT SEVERAL OF THE DIFFERENT...
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| 00:19:52 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
YOU LOOK AT THE DEBATE SURROUNDING IT AND YOU LOOK AT THE VIRGINIA DEBATE. YOU LOOK AT WHAT PEOPLE SAID BUT THOSE REALLY AREN'T -- THEY DON'T REALLY...
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| 00:21:39 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
Host: LET'S USE THIS AS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF THE FOUNDERS PHENOMENON. HOW HAS THE RIGHT-WING AUTHORS AND POLITICAL FIGURES THAT YOU TALK ABOUT IN YOUR BOOK,...
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| 00:21:58 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
KEYNESIAN DAVID BARTON WHO WROTE A BOOK CALLED ORIGINAL INTENT WHICH IS ABOUT A 500 PAGE COLLECTION OF CITATIONS. >> Host: TELL US WOULD
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| 00:22:09 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
PROVE TESTS ARE FOR THE NONLITERARY SCHOLARS. >>
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| 00:22:12 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
Guest: THAT'S A BIBLICAL INTERPRETATION LARGELY. OUR CONTEXTUALIZE PARAGRAPHS OR SENTENCES THAT PROVES SOMETHING. THEY ARE ALMOST ALWAYS GIVEN IN CONTEXT...
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| 00:24:34 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
THE FOUNDERS LINE HAVE TO SAY ABOUT RELIGION? WHAT DO THEY USE TO ARGUE IN CONTEMPORARY DEBATES ABOUT THE GOVERNMENT AND RELIGION? >> Guest:
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| 00:24:43 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
ON THE RIGHT THEY SAY THE FOUNDING FATHERS WERE CHRISTIAN. THEY WERE ALL CHRISTIAN AND THEY BELIEVE THAT THEY DIDN'T WANT A PARTICULAR DENOMINATION OF...
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| 00:25:31 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
TALK ABOUT TAXES. THIS MIGHT BE THE ONLY BOOK PUBLISHED IN 2012 THE TALKS ABOUT GROVER NORQUIST AND JAMES MADISON. WHEN IT COMES TO THE ISSUE OF TAXES...
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| 00:25:54 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
AMERICANS HAVE NEVER LIKED TAXES. THEY DIDN'T LIKE TAXES WITHOUT REPRESENTATION. THEY DIDN'T LIKE TAXATION WITH REPRESENTATION. THEY REVOLTED A FEW...
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| 00:27:15 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
GROVER NORQUIST. YESKEL LIKE GROVER NORQUIST. THAT IS DRAMATICALLY DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED TO WHAT HAMILTON WROTE IN THE FEDERALIST PAPERS. I THINK AMONG...
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| 00:27:48 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
LED TO THE WHISKEY REBELLION. >> Guest: JEFFERSON WAS
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| 00:27:53 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
A THINK LARGELY DEFENDING THE PROTESTERS AND JEFFERSON SAID A LOT OF THINGS THAT MODERN-DAY TAX PROTESTERS COULD SEIZE ON. JEFFERSON WAS AN OUTLIER....
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| 00:28:35 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
TAKE A A HALFWAY BREAKDOWN FROM A COMEBACK I WANT TO TALK SOME MORE ABOUT THE SPECIFIC ISSUES IN THE BOOK AND THEN WE'LL TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE...
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| 00:28:47 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
OKAY. >> Host: WE WILL BE BACK AND
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| 00:28:49 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
A LITTLE BIT. >> Guest: EXCELLENT,
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| 00:28:52 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THANK YOU. >> Host:
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| 00:29:11 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
WELCOME BACK MICHAEL AUSTIN. LET'S TALK SOME MORE ABOUT SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT YOU LOOK TALKS ABOUT AND WHAT THE FOUNDERS HAD TO SAY, THERE ARE DIFFERENT...
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| 00:29:36 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
THIS WAS A MATTER OF GREAT DISPUTE. THERE WAS MAJOR FOREIGN-POLICY ISSUE IN THE WASHINGTON ADMINISTRATION AND THAT WAS A WAR BETWEEN FRANCE AND ENGLAND...
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| 00:32:51 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
VERY DIFFERENT TIME IN THE WORLD. WE ARE NOT AN INDISPENSABLE NATION. WE ARE A NATION VERY MUCH A THREAT 25 YEARS AFTER THE CONSTITUTION NOT TOO FAR...
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| 00:33:25 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
Guest: A LOT OF THEM QUOTE WASHINGTON'S FAREWELL ADDRESS AND SAID HE SHOULDN'T BE INVOLVED. THERE TENDS TO BE A VERY NATIVIST THREAT GOING THROUGH THOSE...
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| 00:33:40 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
TELL US MORE ABOUT THAT. WOULD HE MEAN BY NATIVIST? >>
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| 00:33:44 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
Guest: JUST TO LET THE WORLD FIGHT AND WE NEED TO PULL BACK AND TAKE CARE OF OURSELVES. SO I THINK THAT IS ONE POINT AND I DON'T SENSE AMONG THOSE KINDS...
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| 00:34:09 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
CONSERVATIVE RIGHT-WING. >> Guest: SOME
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| 00:34:12 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
OF THEM ARE WE NEED NEED TO EXPLORE A DEMOCRACY. A LOT OF THEM ARE MUCH MORE, WE NEED TO JUST PULL BACK, GET OUT OF THESE WARS AND TAKE CARE OF OURSELVES....
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| 00:34:27 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
A CONSTITUTIONAL LAW AND THE ONE ISSUES WOULD HAVE SEEN THE FOUNDERS QUOTED THE MOST IN MY WHOLE LIFE FOR THE PAST FEW YEARS IF STATES RIGHTS, WHAT...
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| 00:34:51 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
Guest: EVERYTHING WE HAVE TO SAY ABOUT IT. THEY WERE JUST AS MESSED UP AND COMPLICIT ABOUT THAT IS WE ARE. THE MAJOR ISSUE IN 1800 ELECTION WAS A MAJOR...
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| 00:35:58 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
Host: ANTRUM PARTIES IN DIFFERENT ELECTIONS. >> Guest: DIFFERENT
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| 00:36:03 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
PARTIES WANTED DIFFERENT THINGS. I THINK GENERALLY THE SOUTHERNERS WERE MORE CONFEDERATED. THEY SAW THIS MRSA COMPACT AND THE NORTHERNERS I THINK...
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| 00:36:57 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
RICK PERRY AND NAPOLITANO HAVE TO SAY AND WHAT IS THERE COLLECTIVIST VISION ABOUT WHAT THE FOUNDING FATHERS HAD TO SAY? >> Guest: IT ORIGINALLY
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| 00:37:10 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
MEANT SUPPORTER OF THE ARTICLES OF CONFEDERATION AND THEN MADISON AND HAMILTON PULLED ONE OF THE GREAT FAST ONES OF ALL TIMES BY CALLING THEIR NATIONALIST...
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| 00:38:16 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
SIZE. >> Guest: BECAUSE OF
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| 00:38:17 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
ITS SIZE. IS LARGE ENOUGH TO BALANCE THE REGIONAL AUTHORITIES THAT COULD OTHERWISE BECOME OPPRESSIVE AND -- >> Host: YOU
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| 00:38:25 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
SHALL BE WAITING BY YOUR PHONE FOR A CALL FROM GLENN BECK FOR YOUR IMITATION AFTER A DISCUSSION BUT CERTAINLY THERE IS NO ISSUE THAT SEEKS MORE ATTENTION...
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| 00:39:54 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
OF ITS RHETORICAL POWER, IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE INVOKED FOR RHETORICAL RELIGIONS. I THINK THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T HAVE A GOOD UNDERSTANDING OF THE...
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| 00:40:21 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
DON'T TELL HIS HISTORY TEACHER. >> Guest:
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| 00:40:24 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
SO WE HAVE A THINK A HIGH LEVEL OF MISUNDERSTANDING WHICH MAKES IT VERY EASY TO MANIPULATE IT. AND EVERYONE AGREES THAT THESE WERE GOOD PEOPLE. NOT...
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| 00:41:01 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
THE RIGHT-WING? WHY DO THEY TALK ABOUT THE ELECTION CAMPAIGN BY JAMES MADISON AND ALL THESE PEOPLE WOULD HAVE WANTED THE HEALTH CARE LAW AND FINANCIAL...
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| 00:41:14 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
Guest: THAT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION AND I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER. I THINK THERE IS MUCH IN THE WRITING OF THE FOUNDERS TO SUPPORT WHAT CONTEMPORARY LIBERALS...
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| 00:42:10 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
Host: PART OF THIS AS A BASIS IN KIND OF THE MORE RELIGIOUS NATURE OR POLITICAL ARGUMENT AND POLITICAL CONSTITUENCY? >> Guest:
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| 00:42:18 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
I THINK THAT MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ADOPTING THIS WORSHIPFUL ATTITUDE TOWARDS THE FOUNDERS ARE CONFLATING THAT WITH THEIR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS, AND...
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| 00:43:28 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
ONE VERSION OF CONSERVATIVE MIGHT BE BURKEAN CONSERVATIVE REFERENCING THE WAY THINGS WERE DONE IN THE PAST. I WANT TO COME BACK TO THE DIFFERENCE OF...
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| 00:44:09 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
Guest: THIS TAKES ME BACK TO MY ACTUAL TIMEFRAME. I SPEND MOST OF MY CAREER WRITING ABOUT NOTE AND BUNYAN DAFOE AND RICHARD -- AND BUNYAN ESPECIALLY...
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| 00:46:35 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
DECAYS WITH THE FOUNDERS. YOU WILL SEE SOMETHING THAT JOHN ADAMS WROTE IN A LETTER 1912 RIGHT NEXT TO 1970 -- -- 1778 AS IF THEY FORM A SINGLE PARAGRAPH....
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| 00:46:59 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
SIMILAR ATTITUDE OF THE MODERN TV TO AND HOW HAVE THEY HAVE DISTORTED FIGURES FROM A LONG TIME AGO? >> PEOPLE LIKE YOU
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| 00:47:30 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
AND ME, WHO WILL INTENTIONALLY DISTORT THE PLANE AND PRECIOUS TRUTH OF THE FOUNDERS TO MAKE THEM SEEM LESS THAN WHETHER TALKING ABOUT THE OWNERSHIP...
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| 00:48:08 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
BIBLE OR THE CONSTITUTION. THERE IS A DEMOCRATIC IMPULSE WE DON'T NEED THE ELITES TELLING US. WE HAVE ANDREW JACKSON FOR THAT. [LAUGHTER] YOUR BOOK...
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| 00:49:01 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
NO. I WOULD BE HORRIFIED. THE LAST THING WE NEED IS THE GROUP OF LIBERALS TO BE SIMPLISTIC ABOUT THE FOUNDING FATHERS. YOU COULD HAVE A MOVEMENT ON...
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| 00:51:05 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
WE TRY WE SEE THINGS THROUGH OUR OWN EYES. IS IT POSSIBLE TO BE OBJECTIVE OF THE HISTORY? >>Guest:
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| 00:51:36 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
MORE OBJECTIVE HISTORY IS POSSIBLE. BUT THERE ARE SO MANY WONDERFUL BOOKS. I WAS IN BARNES & NOBLE LAST NIGHT. I PASSED THREE TODAY AND I WAS JUST LOOKING...
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| 00:52:44 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
WHAT YOU MENTIONED BEFORE WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE OF WHAT YOU CALL THE FRENCH CONSERVATIVES AND MAINSTREAM CONSERVATIVE? WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN...
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| 00:53:06 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
IT IS OFTEN PRESENTED AS AN ORIGINAL LIST. THAT IS WHAT HE SAYS. HE IS NOT INTENTIONAL. IN THE 1997 BOOK, IT WAS A VERY GOOD BOOK. HE SAYS YOU CAN LOOK...
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| 00:54:35 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
THE PEOPLE WOULD CALL ORIGINAL INTENTION WITH PUBLIC'S UNDERSTANDING NOT LIKE MADISON TOWARD
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| 00:54:38 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
JEFFERSON. >> NOT THE ONLY INTERPRETED STRATEGY BUT WHAT THESE WORDS MEANT TO THE PEOPLE WHO WROTE THE DOCUMENT. BUT TO SAVE WHAT DID JOHN ADAMS WRITES...
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| 00:57:40 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
THE INTENTION OF NORTH CAROLINA WITH THESE ARE VERY DIFFERENT ENTERPRISES. >> THAT IS A WAY TO READ
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| 00:57:48 |
Austin, Michael - Provost and Vice President
THE CONSTITUTION FROM MY FIELD. IS OF GREAT CONTENTION WHAT MILTON INTENDED WHEN HE WROTE PARADISE LOST BUT NOT WIN JOHN ADAMS DID NOT WRITE THE CONSTITUTION....
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| 00:58:38 |
Fontana, David - Associate Professor
LEFT US WITH INTERESTING THOUGHTS AND GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR BOOK. >> THANK YOU FOR DOING
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| 00:58:42 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE INTERVIEW , . [APPLAUSE] >> THANK
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NOTE: The transcript for this program was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.