| 00:00:08 |
Unidentified Speaker
OKAY. LET'S -- LET'S BEGIN. SO FAR, WHAT WE HAVE BEEN FOCUSING ON FIRST OF ALL WAS THE FILM AND THE IMAGES IN THE NODAY FILM DONE BY THE TWO BROTHERS,...
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| 00:07:47 |
Unidentified Speaker
YEAH? >> WELL, IN THE ARTICLE
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| 00:07:49 |
Unidentified Speaker
IT KIND OF TALKS ABOUT AND MY REACTION, AS WELL, IS THAT THAT PERSON HAS A FAMILY AND THEY WOULD BE SEVERELY HURT BY SEEING THAT IF THEY RECOGNIZED...
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| 00:08:04 |
Unidentified Speaker
FAMILY. REMEMBER, WE DON'T KNOW FOR SURE WHO HE IS. IT'S A MALE. UNDOUBTEDLY. THAT SEEMS TO BE CERTAIN. BUT EVEN THE ARTICLE GOES FROM ONE POSSIBILITY...
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| 00:08:47 |
Unidentified Speaker
I THINK IT'S KIND OF A DIFFERENCE IN THE WAY THE PEOPLE PERCEIVE WHEN SOMEONE DIES BY, LIKE, SOMETHING THAT THEY CAN'T HELP WHEREAS IF THEY CHOOSE...
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| 00:09:12 |
Unidentified Speaker
WHAT THE DAUGHTER OF THE FIRST SUSPECTED -- OF THE FIRST PERSON SUSPECTED TO BE THIS MAN, WHAT THE DAUGHTER SAID WHEN SHE WAS INTERVIEWED BY THE JOURNALIST...
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| 00:09:24 |
Unidentified Speaker
I DON'T REMEMBER THE EXACT WORDS BUT IT WAS SOMETHING ALONG THE LINES OF, LIKE, THANK GOODNESS HE'S NOT GOING TO HELL OR SOMETHING. >> NOT
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| 00:09:31 |
Unidentified Speaker
QUITE, NOT QUITE. >> BECAUSE I THOUGHT
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| 00:09:33 |
Unidentified Speaker
THEY WERE -- IT'S A SIN TO TRY TO -- >> IN THE CATHOLIC
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| 00:09:37 |
Unidentified Speaker
RELIGION, SUICIDE IS A SIN. OKAY? THAT IS -- YOU KNOW, YOU MIGHT WIND UP WHERE YOU DON'T WANT TO BE. DO YOU RECALL THE WORDS? >>
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| 00:09:47 |
Unidentified Speaker
YEAH. SHE SAID THAT PIECE OF SHIT IS NOT MY FATHER. >> YEAH,
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| 00:09:52 |
Unidentified Speaker
YEAH. AND -- AND THE MOTHER DOESN'T WANT TO THINK SO EITHER THOUGH SHE'S NOT AS STRIKINGLY ELOQUENT AS HER DAUGHTER ABOUT THE MATTER. AND CLEARLY...
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| 00:11:58 |
Unidentified Speaker
TALKING ABOUT WAR OR AN ACCIDENT, THE DEAD BODY ALMOST -- THAT WAS WHAT HAPPENED AND THERE WASN'T ANOTHER CHOICE. WHEN YOU GO TO WAR, YOU ARE EXPECTED...
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| 00:12:32 |
Unidentified Speaker
ENOUGH. WOULD THAT ARGUMENT THEN SORT TO SPEAK INCLUDE WHY JULES NADAY DOES NOT WANT TO PHOTOGRAPH THAT PERSON WHEN HE GOES TO THE NORTH TOWER? PERSON'S...
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| 00:12:56 |
Unidentified Speaker
ABOUT WITH THE BROTHERS HOW HE WASN'T THE NORMAL PHOTOGRAPHER SO IT STRUCK HIM AS SOMETHING -- HE IS LIKE AN EVERY DAY CITIZEN SEEING A DEAD BODY THAT...
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| 00:13:19 |
Unidentified Speaker
THEN DO YOU THINK THEY WOULD HAVE INCLUDED IT IN THE FILM? LET'S SAY HE HAD SHOT IT. THEY SHOT 175 HOURS OF FOOTAGE THROUGH THE TRAINING OF THE FIREMEN...
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| 00:13:54 |
Unidentified Speaker
SIR? >> WELL, I DON'T THINK THERE'S NECESSARILY A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE DEAD OF SEPTEMBER 11th. FOR EXAMPLE, WE ARE ABLE TO SEE THE IMAGE OF FATHER...
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| 00:14:02 |
Unidentified Speaker
YES. >> I THINK THERE'S
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| 00:14:04 |
Unidentified Speaker
SOMETHING INTIMATE PERSONAL OF SOMEONE IN THE ACT OF DYING OPPOSED TO BEING DEAD ALREADY, TO SEE THE LIFE IN THEM BEING TAKEN AS OPPOSED TO, LIKE,...
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| 00:14:38 |
Unidentified Speaker
LIKE THE POINT. I THINK WE WOULD ALL AGREE THAT'S A GOOD DISTINCTION TO MAKE. DO YOU THINK WE WOULD HAVE TROUBLE -- BECAUSE I HAVE CERTAINLY SEEN SUCH...
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| 00:15:01 |
Unidentified Speaker
DIFFERENT IN A NUMBER OF WAYS. ONE BEING THAT IT'S NOT AS INHERENTLY VIOLENT, THE IMAGE OF THEM, PERHAPS, CRASHING IN TO THE WATER WOULD BE LESS DISTURBING...
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| 00:15:22 |
Unidentified Speaker
VOLUNTARY ACT. >>
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| 00:15:24 |
Unidentified Speaker
VOLUNTARILY COMMITTING
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| 00:15:25 |
Unidentified Speaker
SUICIDE. >> YEAH? >> I
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| 00:15:26 |
Unidentified Speaker
THINK THERE'S SOMETHING ABOUT THE ACTUAL EVENT OF SEPTEMBER 11th AFFECTING THE COUNTRY AND EVEN NOT A FAMILY MEMBER OF SOMEONE THAT DIED, 9/11 STILL...
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| 00:15:49 |
Unidentified Speaker
VULNERABLE. IS SOMEHOW THAT SENSE OF VULNERABILITY, WE FELT WHICH CERTAINLY WAS PART OF THE EXPERIENCE OF THAT DAY AND LINGERED ON FOR MANY DAYS...
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| 00:17:01 |
Unidentified Speaker
SEPARATES ITSELF FROM OTHER PICTURES THAT COULD BE SIMILAR TO THIS LIKE SOMEONE JUMPING OFF A BRIDGE BECAUSE THIS WAS A RESULT OF AN ACT OF TERROR OPPOSED...
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| 00:17:22 |
Unidentified Speaker
FAIR ENOUGH. I MEAN, I THINK THAT SAYS IT. THAT IT EXPLAINS OR OFFERS AN EXPLANATION THAT IT WAS AN ACT OF TERROR BUT I WONDER IF, IN FACT, THAT IS...
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| 00:17:57 |
Unidentified Speaker
JUST GOING ALONG ON THAT NOTE, I MEAN, AS OPPOSED TO OTHER PEOPLE MAYBE EVEN SOMEONE ELSE JUMPING FROM THE BUILDING, I THINK PEOPLE COMPARE THAT IMAGE...
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| 00:18:34 |
Unidentified Speaker
PROVOCATIVE. I AGREE WITH YOU. THE IMAGE IS -- YES, YOU'RE AWARE THAT MAN IS HURDLING TO HIS DEATH. YOU CAN'T ESCAPE THAT. BUT WHAT DREW THE PHOTOGRAPHER'S...
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| 00:19:50 |
Unidentified Speaker
PART IS HE DOES LOOK GRACEFUL. THEY'RE NOT GOING TO PICK A PHOTO FRAYING OR IN PAIN AND STRUGGLING. THEY'RE GOING TO PICK A PHOTO WATCHING HIM TAKE...
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| 00:20:15 |
Unidentified Speaker
GRACEFUL, YES. I LIKE THAT WORD, TOO. AND CLEARLY THE CHOICE. I MEAN, IT IS NOT A CHOICE THAT ANY OF US WOULD EVER CHOOSE TO BE CONFRONTED WITH THOUGH...
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| 00:21:21 |
Unidentified Speaker
PART OF THE REASON THAT IT'S LIKE SO TABOO AND EMOTIONAL IS BECAUSE, LIKE, IT'S THE REALLY ONLY PICTURE THAT MAKES ANY CONNECTION WITH LIKE HOW AWFUL...
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| 00:21:56 |
Unidentified Speaker
HADN'T SUFFERED. BUT KNEW THEY WERE GOING
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| 00:21:59 |
Unidentified Speaker
TO? >> YEAH. >> THERE'S NO EVIDENCE THIS
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| 00:22:01 |
Unidentified Speaker
MAN HAS BEEN
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| 00:22:03 |
Unidentified Speaker
ON FIRE. >> RIGHT. IT JUST MAKES THEM MORE LIKE REAL PEOPLE TO YOU, LIKE, RATHER THAN -- I DON'T KNOW. DRAWS A DEEPER CONNECTION I THINK. >> I THINK...
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| 00:22:13 |
Unidentified Speaker
A VERY FAIR POINT. YEAH? GO AHEAD. >> JUST TO GO ALONG WITH
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| 00:22:17 |
Unidentified Speaker
THAT, IT'S NOT -- IT'S NOT THAT THAT'S THE ONLY PICTURE OF PEOPLE INSIDE. THAT'S THE ONLY PICTURE OF VICTIMS USUALLY YOU WILL SEE AT ALL. WE DON'T...
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| 00:22:45 |
Unidentified Speaker
IT, IN A CERTAIN WAY TO MOVING FROM THE IMPERMISSIBLE TO THE ICONIC. AN ICONIC IMAGE. I DON'T WANT TO GET TO THE CONTRADICTION OF BEING ICONIC AND...
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| 00:24:20 |
Unidentified Speaker
IT SHOULD BE THE ICONIC IMAGE BECAUSE I THINK IT'S MORE OF AN IMAGE OF DESTRUCTION. >>
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| 00:24:25 |
Unidentified Speaker
THIS ONE YOU'RE TALKING
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| 00:24:26 |
Unidentified Speaker
ABOUT? >> YEAH. YOU SEE IMAGES LIKE OF BUILDINGS COLLAPSING EVEN WITH SOMEONE PURPOSELY, OBVIOUSLY, NOT IN AN ACT OF TERROR BUT IF A BUILDING HAD TO...
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| 00:24:57 |
Unidentified Speaker
DO WE -- DO YOU THINK WE IMAGINE THE PEOPLE INSIDE WITH THAT IMAGE? YOU KNOW? IF YOU CAN -- YOU WERE VERY YOUNG THEN, OBVIOUSLY. BUT WHEN YOU SAW...
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| 00:26:15 |
Unidentified Speaker
THAT I WAS IN FIFTH GRADE WHEN IT HAPPENED AND NEVER BEEN TO NEW YORK AT THAT POINT, I'D SEEN PICTURES OF THE TOWERS BEFORE BUT I'VE NEVER BEEN INSIDE...
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| 00:26:57 |
Unidentified Speaker
YES. >> AND I
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| 00:26:58 |
Unidentified Speaker
THINK THAT WAS THE OTHER LASTING IMAGE THAT I HAVE FROM THE TOWER PERSPECTIVE. NOT EVEN TALKING ABOUT THE PENTAGON. >> WELL, WHEN
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| 00:27:05 |
Unidentified Speaker
YOU WERE IN THE FIFTH GRADE, YOU WERE WHAT, 10? 11? >> 10,
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| 00:27:09 |
Unidentified Speaker
11, YEAH. >>
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| 00:27:12 |
Unidentified Speaker
OKAY. DO YOU RECALL WAS IT THAT KIND OF PICTURE THAT IS TOWERS BEING STRUCK OR BOTH OF THEM BURNING THAT SORT TO SPEAK SHOCKED/IMPRESSED YOU OR THE BUILDINGS...
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| 00:27:33 |
Unidentified Speaker
WAS THE SECOND TOWER BEING -- WE SAW THE PLANE FLYING TOWARDS IT AND TO ME IT'S THAT IMAGE. IT WASN'T -- I MEAN, THE TOWERS COMING DOWN WAS TERRIBLE...
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| 00:27:51 |
Unidentified Speaker
OKAY. OKAY. BUT LET'S GO BACK TO THE FALLING MAN OR THE JUMPER. MORE THOUGHTS ON WHAT MAKES THIS ICONIC? WHAT MAKES THIS SO -- SO WHAT? IMPORTANT. ...
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| 00:28:10 |
Unidentified Speaker
IT'S ICONIC BECAUSE OF THE UNIQUENESS AND MOST PEOPLE IF YOU SAID SEPTEMBER 11th PROBABLY ASSOCIATE THE OTHER IMAGE OR SOME SORT OF IMAGE OF THE TOWERS...
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| 00:28:40 |
Unidentified Speaker
ALL RIGHT. BEFORE WE GO OVER HERE, YOU REMIND ME OF SOMETHING I WANT TO BRING IT UP AND ASK YOU. RICHARD DREW, THE PHOTOGRAPHER. IN 1968, IN JUNE OF...
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| 00:30:20 |
Unidentified Speaker
I THINK THAT BECAUSE OF THE CONTEXT AND THE RESPONSE THAT THE DAY ITSELF OF SEPTEMBER 11th EVOKES, BECAUSE, I MEAN, JUST LOOKING AT THAT PICTURE...
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| 00:30:41 |
Unidentified Speaker
PEOPLE ARE ARGUED -- I'M NOT SUGGESTING RIGHTLY OR WRONGLY BECAUSE HISTORIANS ARE ONLY PROPHETS OF THE PAST, NOT OF THE FUTURE, BUT HAVE ARGUED THAT...
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| 00:31:21 |
Unidentified Speaker
YES. SO ABOUT THIS PICTURE, I THINK AT LEAST FOR ME DRAWING A LOT OF PARALLELS FROM THIS MAN FALLING IN THE TWIN TOWERS. I THINK THE ONE THAT PRETTY...
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| 00:32:16 |
Unidentified Speaker
A WONDERFUL QUESTION. WHAT -- AND I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY THE TIME OF THIS, BUT I THINK IT IS BEFORE THE SOUTH TOWER ACTUALLY CAME DOWN. WHAT IF THEY...
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| 00:33:22 |
Unidentified Speaker
FALLEN IT'S MORE DISTURBING ON A PERSONAL LEVEL BECAUSE IN THIS IMAGE KNOWING THAT THE TOWERS DID COME DOWN AND SEE HIM COMING DOWN WITH THE TOWERS...
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| 00:33:41 |
Unidentified Speaker
OKAY. ANY OTHER THOUGHTS ON THAT? YEAH? >> I THINK IF THE TOWERS HAD
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| 00:33:46 |
Unidentified Speaker
NOT COME DOWN IT'S LESS DISTURBING BECAUSE WITH THE FACT THAT THE TOWERS DID COME DOWN, HE BECOMES ALL THE MORE IMPORTANT. HE EMBODIES ALL OF THOSE...
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| 00:34:12 |
Unidentified Speaker
TO SPEAK OF. >> COMES BACK TO THE PICTURE
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| 00:34:15 |
Unidentified Speaker
OF KENNEDY'S DEATH IN THAT, YOU KNOW, THE UNIQUENESS OF KENNEDY AS A NATIONAL FIGURE DISTINGUISHING HIM FROM THE FALLING MAN BECAUSE THE FALLING...
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| 00:34:32 |
Unidentified Speaker
POINT. >> WE CAN PUT OURSELVES
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| 00:34:33 |
Unidentified Speaker
IN HIS SHOES AND, YOU KNOW, AND THEN THEREFORE PUT OURSELVES IN THE SHOES OF EARN IN THE TOWTOWERS. >> DOES THAT -- HAVING
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| 00:34:43 |
Unidentified Speaker
SAID THAT, OKAY -- IS THERE A LEVEL AT WHICH THIS PICTURE DISTURBS US THAT HAS LESS TO DO WITH -- WELL, I DON'T WANT TO SAY LESS. LET'S JUST SAY THAT...
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| 00:36:10 |
Unidentified Speaker
THAT, SUCH A PERSONAL DECISION THAT HE MADE, I MEAN, THAT I FEEL LIKE WE CAN UNDERSTAND BUT THAT IT WAS TAKEN, LIKE THE PEOPLE PHOTOGRAPHED IT, BECAME...
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| 00:36:27 |
Unidentified Speaker
CHOICE, DIDN'T HE? A YEAH? >> I DON'T THINK HE COULD
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| 00:36:31 |
Unidentified Speaker
HAVE KNOWN, LIKE HIS DEATH AND PERSONAL CHOICE WOULD BECOME SUCH A PUBLIC SIGN. >>
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| 00:36:38 |
Unidentified Speaker
YEAH. DO YOU -- SINCE THE WORD IS USED NOW AND CERTAINLY PART OF THE INQUIRY BY JUNEAU, DO YOU THINK THAT THIS WAS SUICIDE? YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF SUICIDE....
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| 00:36:53 |
Unidentified Speaker
NO. BECAUSE, I MEAN, IT'S CLEAR I THINK TO EVERYONE THAT THERE WERE TWO CHOICES AND BOTH OF THEM WERE DEATH. HE JUST CHOSE TO CONTROL HIS OWN FATE....
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| 00:37:03 |
Unidentified Speaker
WANT TO SEE THAT ANY
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| 00:37:05 |
Unidentified Speaker
DIFFERENTLY? >> YEAH? >> I THINK IT'S ALMOST
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| 00:37:07 |
Unidentified Speaker
A SIGN OF ALMOST THE LAST HOPE. IF YOU'RE THERE AND YOU LOOK AND SEE THERE'S FIRE AND SMOKE AND PEOPLE DYING AROUND YOU, THERE'S AN OPEN WINDOW AND FIREFIGHTERS...
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| 00:37:33 |
Unidentified Speaker
OKAY. >>
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| 00:37:34 |
Unidentified Speaker
YEAH? >> JUST
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| 00:37:35 |
Unidentified Speaker
GOING BACK TO YOUR QUESTION OF WHAT'S SO THREATENING ABOUT IT, I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT -- >> I DON'T HAVE AN OPINION
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| 00:37:42 |
Unidentified Speaker
ABOUT ANY OF THIS. >> THE FALLING MAN IS
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| 00:37:44 |
Unidentified Speaker
LIKE A BUSINESS -- SOME SORT OF BUSINESSMAN AND THE TWIN TOWERS REPRESENTED, LIKE, MANO DERNTY AND ADVANCEMENT OF WESTERN ECONOMIES AND STUFF AND THAT...
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| 00:38:06 |
Unidentified Speaker
OF TRANSLATE IN TO A METAPHOR, A METAPHOR OF THIS IMAGE OF METAPHOR OF THE LARGER AMERICAN DESTRUCTIVE ACT THAT THIS ATTACK REPRESENTS. OKAY....
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| 00:38:26 |
Unidentified Speaker
MAYBE THIS PICTURE COULD BE SEEN AS THREATENING BECAUSE IN A CERTAIN WAY THIS MAN'S PERCEIVED MIND-SET OF WHAT YOU THINK HE CHOSE TO DO GOES AGAINST...
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| 00:39:07 |
Unidentified Speaker
INTERESTING THAT HIS WIFE, WE ALREADY HAD THE QUOTE ABOUT THE DAUGHTER. HIS WIFE IF YOU MAY RECALL FROM THE ARTICLE, SHE SAYS THAT SHE WANTS, QUOTE,...
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| 00:39:56 |
Unidentified Speaker
IT'S SUICIDE BECAUSE I THINK THIS PERSON THAT DAY THOSE PEOPLE IN THE TOP -- LIKE, LEVELS OF THE TOWER HAD THEIR CHOICE OF LIFE OR DEATH TAKEN FROM THEM....
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| 00:40:24 |
Unidentified Speaker
UNFORTUNATELY, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WAS IN HIS HEAD AND WE COULD CONSTRUCT, YOU KNOW, ANY SCENARIO FOR WHAT HE WAS THINKING. HE MIGHT BE SAVED. THE FIREMEN...
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| 00:41:00 |
Unidentified Speaker
YOU WERE SAYING ABOUT THE INTERPRETIVE SCHEME, I FEEL LIKE THIS PHOTO THREATEN IT IS PSYCHIC DEFENSES OF EVERYONE THREATENED TO THE RELATIVES IN NEW...
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| 00:42:04 |
Unidentified Speaker
INTERPRETATION OF HOW HE PERCEIVED IT OR OTHERS ARE PERCEIVING HE INTERPRETED IS AN EXTENSION OF HOW WE PERCEIVE IT, TOO. WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL OF THAT....
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| 00:42:18 |
Unidentified Speaker
EARLIER, THE PEOPLE SEEING PEOPLE JUMPING AND HOW HORRIBLE IT MUST HAVE BEEN UP THERE. >>
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| 00:42:22 |
Unidentified Speaker
YEAH, YEAH. >> SO I THINK
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| 00:42:25 |
Unidentified Speaker
PEOPLE MIGHT BE VERY UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THE IMAGES BECAUSE IF THIS ALLOWS YOU TO SEE THE HUMAN SIDE AND PUT YOURSELF IN TO THAT POSITION AND IMAGINE YOURSELF...
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| 00:42:53 |
Unidentified Speaker
THE TECHNICAL DEFINITION OF SUICIDE, I THINK IT IS BECAUSE YOU'RE CHOOSING TO TAKE YOUR OWN LIFE. WHETHER THE CIRCUMSTANCES ARE FAVORABLE OR, LIKE,...
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| 00:43:29 |
Unidentified Speaker
BUT I'VE THOUGHT AT TIMES I SHOULD CONSULT WITH A LOCAL PRIEST WHAT THE STANDARD WAS SORT TO SPEAK. THIS MUST HAVE BEEN DISCUSSED WITHIN CATHOLIC CIRCLES...
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| 00:44:36 |
Unidentified Speaker
YEAH. SO THERE WAS A -- WHAT THE IDEA OF SUICIDE REALLY COMES UP TO ME AND I THINK IT'S LIKE PAGE 198 AND THERE WAS A SORT OF QUOTE HERE THAT PUZZLED...
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| 00:45:21 |
Unidentified Speaker
IN ANY PARTICULAR CASE IT IS NOT VERY KNOWABLE. ONE BOOK THAT WAS PUBLISHED 102 MINUTES I THINK BY JIM DWYER WHICH IS A RECONSTRUCTION OF WHAT WAS GOING...
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| 00:46:32 |
Unidentified Speaker
I THINK THERE'S ANOTHER WAY TO LOOK AT THIS THAT CAN MAYBE SHOW HOW IT WASN'T SUICIDE AND THAT IF YOU'RE PUSHED OFF A BUILDING, LIKE THAT'S NOT SUICIDE....
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| 00:46:43 |
Unidentified Speaker
YES, YES. >> OFF THE
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| 00:46:44 |
Unidentified Speaker
BUILDING. >> I THINK THAT'S
|
| 00:46:46 |
Unidentified Speaker
A PERFECTLY GOOD ARGUMENT TO MAKE. >> THIS IS THE END AND
|
| 00:46:49 |
Unidentified Speaker
THEN JUMPED. >> IT WASN'T -- IT WASN'T IN
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| 00:46:52 |
Unidentified Speaker
ANY HUMAN TERMS REALLY A CHOICE. I WANT TO MOVE ON A LITTLE BIT. TIME IS GOING ON. I WANT TO SUGGEST SOMETHING -- ANOTHER WAY OF THINKING. LET ME PUT...
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| 00:48:32 |
Unidentified Speaker
THAT STRIKES ME ALWAYS ABOUT THIS IS WHAT WILL MAKE YOU FEEL VULNERABLE IF YOU ANYTHING LIKE ME IF IT DOESN'T MATTER IF 3,000 PEOPLE WERE IN THE TOWER...
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| 00:48:58 |
Unidentified Speaker
GOOD POINT. GOOD POINT. BUT, LET US SAY THAT SOMEHOW OR ANOTHER -- JUST IMAGINE THIS, THAT THE PHOTOGRAPHER SHOT NOT THE ONE MAN BUT THAT THERE WERE...
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| 00:49:45 |
Unidentified Speaker
DIFFERENCE. I THINK WITH HAVING ONE PERSON THERE'S AN INTIMACY TO THE
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| 00:49:50 |
Unidentified Speaker
PHOTO. >> YES. >> DELVING
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| 00:49:51 |
Unidentified Speaker
INTO HIS LIFE AND THIS MOMENT THAT HE'S EXPERIENCING OR HE KNOWS HE'S GOING TO DIE. AND YOU, AS A VIEWER OF THE PHOTO, KNOW HE'S GOING TO DIE ALSO....
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| 00:50:01 |
Unidentified Speaker
A VIEWER, YOU'RE GOING TO DIE, TOO. >>
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| 00:50:03 |
Unidentified Speaker
YEAH. >> HE IS
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| 00:50:05 |
Unidentified Speaker
US. FOUR IS NOT US. ONE IS US. >> DID YOU WANT TO ADD TO
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| 00:50:10 |
Unidentified Speaker
THAT? >> I WAS
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| 00:50:11 |
Unidentified Speaker
GOING TO SAY IF THERE WERE FOUR PEOPLE THERE, AT LEAST THEY MADE THE DECISION TOGETHER LIKE THEY KNEW THAT WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN. BUT HE -- HE JUST...
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| 00:50:28 |
Unidentified Speaker
WE LIVE TOGETHER AND EVERYBODY DIES ALONE. HOWEVER YOU DIE, YOU ALWAYS DIE -- YOUR DEATH IS ALONE, EVEN IF THERE WERE PEOPLE AROUND. AND DOES THIS PICTURE...
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| 00:55:38 |
Unidentified Speaker
ONE IN PARTICULAR, IT'S LIKE -- IT'S MORE FOCUSED ON THE SISTER AND LIKE HER EMOTIONS TOWARDS JOSH RATHER THAN HIM AS A PERSON. AND IT'S ALMOST AS...
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| 00:55:59 |
Unidentified Speaker
YEAH. SO WHAT HAPPENS TO JOSH IN THIS -- THEREFORE, WHAT'S THE -- WHAT'S THE FALLOUT TO JOSH IF THIS IS REALLY ABOUT HIS SISTER? >> I GUESS HE BECOMES
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| 00:56:09 |
Unidentified Speaker
REMEMBERED AS HIS SISTER REMEMBERS HIM? >>
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| 00:56:12 |
Unidentified Speaker
OKAY. OKAY. >>
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| 00:56:13 |
Unidentified Speaker
YEAH. IT'S NOT REALLY ABOUT LIKE HIM AS A PERSON. >> WELL, I DON'T KNOW HOW FAR
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| 00:56:19 |
Unidentified Speaker
WE WANT TO GO WITH THAT. YOU GET A SENSE OF HIM THOUGH YOU MIGHT GET A SENSE OF THE SISTER'S AFFECT MORE. A HAND OVER HERE? YEAH. >> I THINK BUILDING
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| 00:56:28 |
Unidentified Speaker
ON WHAT SHE SAID, IT'S AS HIS SISTER REMEMBERED HIM BUT IT'S NOT -- THESE PORTRAITS AREN'T PAINTED FOR ME TO MEMORIZE THE VICTIM AS OF SEPTEMBER...
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| 00:56:49 |
Unidentified Speaker
KNOW, EVERYBODY THERE WAS THERE. >> WAS THERE BUT I THINK
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| 00:56:52 |
Unidentified Speaker
IF YOU JUST LOOK AT IT, RIGHT, BECAUSE IF YOU LOOK AT ONE OF THEM AND JUST WITH NO CONTEXT, IT'S NOT TALKING ABOUT THEY WERE A VICTIM AND IT WAS TALKING...
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| 00:57:20 |
Unidentified Speaker
OKAY. YEAH? >> I JUST THINK READING
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| 00:57:22 |
Unidentified Speaker
THROUGH THIS, IT'S A GREAT JOB OF SHOWING THE HUMAN VALUE THAT WE LOST THAT DAY. IT WASN'T JUST A NUMBER. IT WASN'T JUST AN ATTACK ON THESE BUILDINGS...
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| 00:58:04 |
Unidentified Speaker
READ OBITUARIES? >> I HAVE A FEW IN
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| 00:58:06 |
Unidentified Speaker
THE PAST FEW YEARS. >>
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| 00:58:08 |
Unidentified Speaker
YEAH. HOW WOULD YOU -- HOW WOULD YOU DISTINGUISH, THEN, BETWEEN THE KIND OF OBITUARIES YOU'VE READ AND THIS ONE? I TAKE YOUR POINT ABOUT -- I'M CURIOUS,...
|
| 00:58:26 |
Unidentified Speaker
OBITUARY IS MUCH MORE BROAD. IT STARTS THEY USUALLY START AT THE BEGINNING GO THROUGH DIFFERENT PHASES IN A PERSONS LIFE. >> THE SHORT OBITUARY,
|
| 00:58:34 |
Unidentified Speaker
NOT THE LONG ONE FOR PRESIDENTS. THE SHORT ONE FOR THE GROSSER DOWN THE STREET. >> A FEW PARAGRAPHS
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| 00:58:39 |
Unidentified Speaker
OR SOMETHING. I THINK WHAT THESE SOUGHT TO DO IS FOCUS ON ONE -- ONE MOMENT AND JUST BRING THAT ONE MOMENT AND EMBODY THE PERSON, EACH PERSON IN THAT...
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| 00:58:55 |
Unidentified Speaker
I THINK YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT THAT THAT'S WHAT THEY DO. WHAT KIND OF MOMENT IS IT THAT IS CONSISTENT IN ALL OF THESE? CAN YOU TEASE OUT WHAT KIND...
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| 00:59:50 |
Unidentified Speaker
A DEFINING MOMENT IN THEIR LIFE AS MUCH AS HOW THEIR FAMILIES AND FRIENDS WOULD REMEMBER THEM OR JUST ONE SINGLE MOMENT THAT SOMEONE WOULD FIND MEMORABLE....
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| 01:00:00 |
Unidentified Speaker
MAKE IT MEMBER ABLE? WHAT GAVE IT MEMBERABILITY, IF YOU WILL? >> I THINK IN
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| 01:00:04 |
Unidentified Speaker
THIS ONE, IT'S KIND OF JUST REMEMBERING A PERSONAL MOMENT WITH THEIR SIBLING, MAYBE WHEN THEY GREW UP OR MOVED ON OR WHEN THEY JUST LEARNED SOMETHING...
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| 01:00:19 |
Unidentified Speaker
A KEEPER. >> YES. >> IT MIGHT NOT BE THE
|
| 01:00:21 |
Unidentified Speaker
DEFINING MOMENT OF THE RELATIONSHIP AS A WHOLE, BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT THE FAMILY IS GOING TO HOLD TONIGHT FOREVER. >> DID YOU BELIEVE
|
| 01:00:29 |
Unidentified Speaker
THAT THE LITTLE GIRL ACTUALLY USED THAT EXPRESSION? >>
|
| 01:00:32 |
Unidentified Speaker
THEY WERE FISHING. I THINK I BELIEVE IT. >> I'VE GOT A BRIDGE IN
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| 01:00:35 |
Unidentified Speaker
BROOKLYN FOR YOU, THOUGH. HERE YOU GO. >> SO,
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| 01:00:41 |
Unidentified Speaker
YEAH. GOING ON SOME WHAT TO HIS POINT, I THINK THEY TRIED TO PORTRAY THE VICTIM SORT OF LIKE VOICE, CHARACTER. >>
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| 01:00:49 |
Unidentified Speaker
YEAH. >>
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| 01:00:50 |
Unidentified Speaker
DIALOGUE. >> SURE ENOUGH. >> YOU KNOW, THERE'S
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| 01:00:52 |
Unidentified Speaker
A CERTAIN LIKE QUOTE HERE, WITH RICHARDS, HE HAD A DEVILISH GRIN ON HIS FACE HE KNEW HE WAS SCARED. BRINGING A PERSONAL FEELING INTO THEIR LIFE, LOOK...
|
| 01:01:27 |
Unidentified Speaker
COMMON DENOMINATOR IN THESE THINGS? >> I WOULD CONSIDER LOVE TO BE
|
| 01:01:31 |
Unidentified Speaker
A COMMON ELEMENT. >>
|
| 01:01:33 |
Unidentified Speaker
OKAY. >> ACTS OF
|
| 01:01:35 |
Unidentified Speaker
KINDNESS, EXPRESSIONS OF LIFE AND YOU SEE THAT EVERY STORY IS ULTIMATELY POSITIVE, WHETHER IT'S HOSTING BASH KUZ FOR YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD, GETTING MARRIED,...
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| 01:02:07 |
Unidentified Speaker
THAT THESE PEOPLE HAD TO THOSE AROUND
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| 01:02:09 |
Unidentified Speaker
THEM. >> YEAH. YEAH. YEAH. OTHER -- YEAH? >> I LIKE
|
| 01:02:16 |
Unidentified Speaker
THAT THEY SHOWED NORMAL OF THEIR LIVES. >>
|
| 01:02:18 |
Unidentified Speaker
YES. >> THE EVERYDAY
|
| 01:02:20 |
Unidentified Speaker
EXISTENCE, YES. >>
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| 01:02:22 |
Unidentified Speaker
EVERYDAY. THEY WENT ON A FISHING TRIP OVER THE WEEKEND. HE WAS OUT TO DINNER WITH THE FAMILY. THESE ARE NORMAL THINGS THAT HAPPENED EVERY -- >> THE...
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| 01:02:31 |
Unidentified Speaker
EVERYDAY EXISTENCE. YEAH, YEAH. IT'S WELL DONE. I HAVE READ MANY MORE THAN THIS ONE. YEAH? >> I THINK IN A
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| 01:02:39 |
Unidentified Speaker
SENSE, BY TALKING ABOUT SO MANY PEOPLE THAT THESE PEOPLE TOUCHED IN THEIR LIVES THAT THEY HAD AN EFFECT ON I THINK IT MAKES IT SEEM LIKE THERE WAS...
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| 01:03:08 |
Unidentified Speaker
BEEN ACHIEVED IF THEY HAD JUST PUBLISHED THE KIND OF STRAIGHTFORWARD OBITUARY? FOR EXAMPLE, LET'S TAKE ROSENTHAL. JOSH ROSENTHAL, WAS, WHAT 41, 42,...
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| 01:03:47 |
Unidentified Speaker
THINK THAT THAT JUST KIND OF MAKES IT SEEM SO STANDARD AND IT'S JUST LIKE, OKAY, HERE IT IS, THIS IS WHAT NEEDS TO BE WRITTEN. >> HOW MANY OF THOSE...
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| 01:03:56 |
Unidentified Speaker
YOU HAVE WANTED TO READ? >> PROBABLY
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| 01:03:59 |
Unidentified Speaker
NONE. THIS MAKES IT PERSONAL AND FEEL FOR THOSE ACTUAL CONNECTIONS THEY HAD. THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE AREN'T SO CLOSE WITH A FAMILY MEMBER OR THIS...
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| 01:04:15 |
Unidentified Speaker
LIVES. >> OKAY. YEAH? >> I THINK ALSO
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| 01:04:17 |
Unidentified Speaker
BECAUSE THERE WERE SO MANY PEOPLE THAT DIED THAT DAY IN THE SAME WAY, THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME WAY TO WRITE THESE OBITUARIES OR PIECES ABOUT THEM THAT...
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| 01:04:42 |
Unidentified Speaker
UH-HUH. UH-HUH. EACH OF THESE INDIVIDUAL SS IS GIVEN A REAL IDENTITY. NOT -- NOT AN IDENTITY OF STATISTICS WHEN THEY WERE BORN, WHERE THEY WENT TO...
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| 01:07:16 |
Unidentified Speaker
TOUGH QUESTION TO SORT OF ANSWER. I THINK, FROM A SOCIETAL VIEWPOINT AND IN A CONTEXT OF THE EVENT, HIS IDENTITY IS ACTUALLY WHAT WE CAN SEE HERE,...
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| 01:08:25 |
Unidentified Speaker
YEAH. >> I THINK THAT A LOT OF IT
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| 01:08:28 |
Unidentified Speaker
HAS TO DO WITH ALL OF THESE BODIES WERE JUST JUMBLED UNDER THIS MASSIVE HEAP OF DEBRIS AND A LOT OF THE BODIES WERE NEVER EVEN FOUND. THE FAMILIES...
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| 01:09:03 |
Unidentified Speaker
IN THE FORWARD, THESE -- THESE PORTRAITS ARE PRESUMABLY INTENDED TO BE CONSOLING, OKAY? AND I TAKE IT FROM THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN SAID THUS FAR, THAT...
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| 01:10:54 |
Unidentified Speaker
I KNOW YOU MIGHT NOT BE GOING AFTER SPECIFIC. >> I'M NOT
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| 01:11:00 |
Unidentified Speaker
GOING AFTER ANYTHING. I'M ASKING A QUESTION. >> IS MORE DISTURBING
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| 01:11:03 |
Unidentified Speaker
BECAUSE WE DON'T FOE WHO THAT IS. AT THE END OF THE ARTICLE, THE FACT WE HAVE KNOWN WHO THE FOLLOW MAN IS ALL ALONG IT COULD BE ANY PERSON BUT WHEN...
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| 01:11:38 |
Unidentified Speaker
I RAISED THAT -- I'LL LET YOU SPEAK IN A SECOND -- WHEN I RAISE THIS QUESTION ABOUT SHELTING OURSELVES, REMEMBER ONLY SEEN ONCE. WE WEREN'T ALLOWED,...
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| 01:12:49 |
Unidentified Speaker
THEY'RE COMFORTING, I THINK THAT IT MAKES YOU WITNESS SEPTEMBER 11th IN A WAY THAT YOU NEVER DID BEFORE. >>
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| 01:12:56 |
Unidentified Speaker
OKAY. GOOD. >> I MEAN LEAK
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| 01:12:58 |
Unidentified Speaker
WHO WANTS TO READ ABOUT SOMEONE WHO IS 28, A WEEK AWAY FROM HIS WEDDING WHOSE FIANCEE WORKED WITH HIM COULD HAVE BEEN THERE THAT DAY, LEAVING BEHIND NOT...
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| 01:13:12 |
Unidentified Speaker
YEAH. >> LIKE THE IDEA OF PEOPLE
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| 01:13:14 |
Unidentified Speaker
DYING SEPTEMBER 11th IS TRAGIC, UNDOUBTEDLY. WHEN YOU PUT IT ON AN INDIVIDUAL LEVEL, EACH LOSS, TO ME AT LEAST, FEELS MORE OF LIKE IT HAS SO MUCH MORE...
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| 01:13:39 |
Unidentified Speaker
OKAY. WE HAVE ONLY A COUPLE OF MINUTES AND I WANTED TO FILL YOU IN ON A RATHER INTRIGUING ASPECT OF THIS ROSENTHAL. ANYBODY KNOW WHO HE WAS? ASIDE...
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| 01:13:54 |
Unidentified Speaker
OKAY. I DIDN'T -- I DIDN'T THINK YOU WOULD. HE WAS A GRADUATE OF THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN. HIS MOTHER, MERRILL ROSENTHAL, TAUGHT AT DEARBORN. AND...
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NOTE: The transcript for this program was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.