| 00:00:11 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEWS WITH THE PENNSYLVANIA CABLE NETWORK. SPECTER REFLECTS ON EVENTS THAT TOOK HIM FROM HIS RUSSIAN IMMIGRANT ROOTS TO HIS INVOLVEMENT...
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| 00:01:00 |
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HE RAN ON. DID YOU BUY INTO HIS ENTIRE AGENDA? >> NO. NO I DID NOT. BEFORE TELLING YOU WHY NOT, I
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| 00:01:13 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THINK THERE WOULD BE SOME INTEREST IN THE DAY AFTER THE ELECTION MY SECRETARY SAID PRESIDENT-ELECT REAGAN IS ON THE PHONE. I WAS TALKING TO A JUDGE IN...
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| 00:04:41 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
KIND OF RELATIONSHIP DID YOU HAVE WITH PRESIDENT REAGAN? >>
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| 00:04:47 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
EXCELLENT. HE WAS
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| 00:04:49 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ALWAYS CORDIAL AND ALWAYS PLEASANT. I'M NOT SAYING
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| 00:04:54 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
HE REMEMBERED MY NAME BUT HE WAS ALWAYS PLEASANT AND ALWAYS CORDIAL. I WAS LAST IN SENIORITY AS I HAD EXPLAINED BEFORE SO THEY MADE ME THE SPOKESMAN...
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| 00:09:58 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
FRIENDS COULD SEE ME NOW, WHERE YOU COULD JUST APPRECIATE THE MOMENT? >> WELL, YES. BUT THAT FEELING WAS PRESENT A LOT. EVERY TIME I GOT
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| 00:10:13 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OFF THE TRAIN AT UNION STATION AND WALKED OUT THERE'S THE CAPITOL TWO BLOCKS AWAY, I GOT GOOSE PIMPLES. I KNEW IT WAS SOMETHING SPECIAL, UNIQUE, TO BE...
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| 00:15:41 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
YEAH. ONE DAY HE CALLED ME UP TO URGE ME TO VOTE
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| 00:15:44 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
FOR AID TO THE CONTRAS. I WAS AGAINST AIDING THE CONTRAS. I THOUGHT THEY WERE A BAD LOT. I DIDN'T THINK MORE MONEY WAS WELL SPENT THERE. AND HE HAD...
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| 00:22:47 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WHAT I ASKED HIM. I SAID HOW DO YOU EXPECT ME TO VOTE FOR IT? HE SAID, I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT IT. HIS PLEA
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| 00:22:54 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WAS NOLO CONTENDERE. HE WASN'T THERE. HE WAS SOMEWHERE ELSE. WHICH I DON'T DOUBT. >> WHO WERE THE PEOPLE ON HIS STAFF ON HIS CABINET WHO YOU PARTICULARLY...
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| 00:23:10 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
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| 00:23:22 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
VERY DISTINGUISHED PERSON. HAD AN OUTSTANDING RECORD AS AN ACADEMIC, AS A PROFESSOR, AND HE WAS ON THE CIRCUIT COURT AND HE WAS VERY HIGHLY REGARDED...
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| 00:34:14 |
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STARTED. >> WELL, BORK SOUGHT TO BELITTLE MY ROLE, WHICH WAS OKAY WITH ME. BUT I DID NOT HAVE MY MIND MADE UP BEFORE IT STARTED. I CAME
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| 00:34:27 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TO THE CONCLUSION AFTER A LOT OF THOUGHT AND AFTER A LOT OF STUDY AND AFTER A LOT OF ANALYSIS AND THAT SUMMER I HAD SPENT TWO WEEKS AT THE SEASHORE...
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| 00:37:49 |
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FOR YOU? >> VERY INTERESTING. I WOULDN'T SAY IT WAS A POINT OF ENJOYMENT. I WOULD SAY IT WAS
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| 00:37:59 |
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MORE A POINT FOF DOING A JOB ON A MATTER OF GREAT IMPORTANCE TO THE SUPREME COURT AND TO THE COUNTRY. I FELT THAT I WAS PREPARED FOR IT. BECAUSE I...
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| 00:39:05 |
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IT WAS 1991. WHAT WAS THE MAKEUP OF THE SUPREME COURT AT THE TIME? WHY WAS THERE A VACANCY? >> THE VACANCY AROSE BECAUSE OF THE RETIREMENT OF JUSTICE...
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| 00:39:22 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CHIEF JUSTICE WAS REHNQUIST. HE HAD BEEN THERE FOR FIVE YEARS, CONFIRMED IN 1986. JUSTICE BLACKMAN WAS NEXT IN LINE AND JUSTICE STEVENS AND SCALIA...
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| 00:39:56 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE CONSERVATIVE SIDE BUT FAIRLY WELL BALANCED. WHEN DID YOU FIRST HEAR OF CLARENCE THOMAS? >> WELL, LONG BEFORE THE VACANCY AROSE. I HAD MET CLARENCE...
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| 00:40:22 |
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YOUNG AFRICAN-AMERICAN LAWYER WHO REALLY OUGHT TO GET INVOLVED IN POLITICS. IT THIS GOES BACK A LONG TIME AND I MIGHT NOT BE ACCURATE AS TO THE PRECISE...
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| 00:42:09 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IS NOT A FACTOR IN THIS. YOU IN YOUR BOOK SAY THAT RACE WAS A FACTOR. >> WELL, I DISAGREED WITH PRESIDENT GEORGE H.W. BUSH ON BOTH COUNTS. I DON'T
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| 00:42:23 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THINK THAT CLARENCE THOMAS WAS THE BEST QUALIFIED PERSON. IT WOULD BE HARD TO IDENTIFY SOMEONE AS THE BEST QUALIFIED PERSON. BUT IF YOU WERE TO PICK...
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| 00:44:24 |
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I MEAN, HOW DOES IT ALL UNFOLD? >> WELL, THERE'S A LOT OF WASHINGTON BUZZ. IT'S A BIG OCCASION. AND THERE ARE LOTS OF NAMES
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| 00:44:36 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IN THE NEWSPAPERS AND WE'RE ALL ANXIOUSLY WAITING TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS. THE CONSTITUTION SAYS THAT THE SENATE HAS A ROLE FOR ADVICE AS WELL AS CONSENT....
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| 00:45:39 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
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| 00:45:40 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WAS CONSULTED ON MEYERS AND I
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| 00:45:42 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WAS CONSULTED ON ALITO. THOSE WERE THE
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| 00:45:45 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THREE NOMINATIONS DURING MY TENURE AS CHAIRMAN. >> WHEN THAT CLARENCE THOMAS ANNOUNCEMENT WAS -- NOMINATION WAS ANNOUNCED THAT WAS A SURPRISE TO YOU,...
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| 00:45:58 |
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WOULDN'T CLASSIFY IT AS A SURPRISE. I HADN'T KNOWN WHO IT WAS GOING TO
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| 00:46:05 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BE. >> WHAT THEN UNFOLDS? I MEAN, DO YOU AS A -- DO THE REPUBLICANS GET TOGETHER AND TALK ABOUT STRATEGY FOR HOW TO HOLD THE HEARINGS? >>
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| 00:46:13 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WELL, THE NEXT THING THAT HAPPENS IS THE NOMINEE COMES WITH THE SO-CALLED COURTESY
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| 00:46:20 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CALLS -- COMES AND WE HAVE A SESSION AND WE HAVE A LONG TALK. AND THERE IS NO MEETING OF THE REPUBLICANS TO DEVELOP A STRATEGY. THAT DID OCCUR WITH RESPECT...
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| 00:47:17 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OR IS IT JUST HELLO HOW ARE YOU DOING? >> NO. THERE IS A LOT OF SUBSTANTIVE
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| 00:47:21 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
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| 00:47:23 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DISCUSSION. I REMEMBER
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| 00:47:25 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE COURTESY CALL WITH JUSTICE -- JUDGE BORK BECAUSE I STARTED RIGHT OFF SAYING YOU DO AGREE WITH MARBURY VS. MADISON, DON'T YOU? AND HE SAID TO...
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| 00:48:30 |
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YOUR VIEW OF THE LAW? >> BOTH. I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THEIR SCHOLARSHIP, ABOUT THEIR QUALIFICATIONS AS
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| 00:48:39 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
A PROFESSIONAL. I'M ALSO CONCERNED ABOUT HOW THEY APPROACH MATTERS, WHAT THEIR IDEOLOGY IS. MY MEETING WITH ROBERTS WAS A NOTEWORTHY ONE BECAUSE HE...
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| 00:50:26 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
NO. NO. WHITE HOUSE PRETTY MUCH KNEW HOW I WOULD RESPOND.
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| 00:50:33 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
I'M GLAD TO TAKE A CALL BUT I WANT TO SEE THE NOMINEE. I WANT TO TALK TO THE NOMINEE. I WANT TO SEE HOW THE NOMINEE DOES IN THE HEARINGS. >> HOW MUCH...
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| 00:50:52 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
REMEMBER THE START OF THE THOMAS CONFIRMATION
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| 00:50:57 |
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HEARINGS? >>
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| 00:51:00 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
I DO NOT. THE SECT PHASEOND PHASE OF THE THOMAS HEARINGS WHERE PROFESSOR HILL HAD EMERGED WERE NOTEWORTHY AND
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| 00:51:11 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
MEMORABLE BUT THE INITIAL SESSIONS WERE NOT. >> WHEN THOSE HEARINGS COME UP DOES EACH SENATOR ASK QUESTIONS OR IS THERE A DESIGNATED -- BECAUSE YOU...
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| 00:51:23 |
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A JOHN DANFORTH BOOK WHERE IT SAYS, CLARENCE NEEDED AN ADVOCATE. SENATOR DOLE'S OFFICE WAS CONCERNED HE WOULD SEE HIMSELF NOT AS AN ADVOCATE BUT...
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| 00:51:55 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
20 MINUTES AND THEN MANY SENATORS ARE FINISHED AT THAT POINT. YOU CAN HAVE ANOTHER ROUND IF YOU WANT FOR QUESTIONING BEYOND THAT. >> IN THE CLARENCE...
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| 00:52:13 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
FUNDAMENTALLY DISAGREED WITH HIM ON AFFIRMATIVE ACTION, WOULD THAT HAVE BEEN ENOUGH TO VOTE AGAINST HIM FOR THE HIGH COURT? >> NO. IT WOULD BE ONE...
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| 00:52:28 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
VARIOUS APPROACHES TO AFFIRMATIVE ACTION. JUSTICE THOMAS WAS OPPOSED TO AFFIRMATIVE ACTION. HE HAD A VERY, VERY DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE. HE THOUGHT THAT...
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| 00:54:11 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
REPUBLICAN LEADER IN
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| 00:54:14 |
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THE 1987. SENATOR BIDEN WAS THE CHAIRMAN. THE DEMOCRATS WERE IN CHARGE IN THAT MEETING. A WHOLE GROUP OF REPUBLICAN SENATORS -- WE HAD A TALK ABOUT...
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| 00:57:45 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AND TRIED TO HELP HIM BE CONFIRMED.
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| 00:57:50 |
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AND I WOULD HAVE SLANTED MY QUESTIONS IN AN ADVERSARIAL WAY AND AS AN ADVOCATE TO TRY TO ACCOMPLISH A GOAL. MY GOAL WAS TO SEE TO IT THAT WE NOMINATED...
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| 00:59:06 |
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FORWARD INITIALLY. AND AS IT WAS LATER
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| 00:59:12 |
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REPORTED, AND I WAS NOT A PARTY TO THESE DISCUSSIONS, SOME OF THE OTHER SENATORS' STAFFERS HAD TALKED TO HER. I BELIEVE IT WAS SENATOR METZENBAUM'S...
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| 01:00:59 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
COVERAGE. I WOULD HAVE MORE EXPECTED YOU TO SAY WHAT WAS THE MEDIA COVERAGE. TELEVISION COVERAGE WAS OVERWHELMING. LIVE FROM CBS FROM DAN RATHER....
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| 01:02:41 |
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WAS? I WAS BUSY PARTICIPATING IN THE
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| 01:02:46 |
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HEARING. THEY WANTED TO KNOW WHAT WE WERE THINKING ABOUT, WHAT WE WERE DOING. WE TOOK OFF SUNDAY MORNING, SO PEOPLE WHO NORMALLY GO TO CHURCH COULD...
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| 01:03:18 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
MIDSTREAM. WE HAD SOME VERY SERIOUS
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| 01:03:22 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CHARGES THAT WERE BEING BROUGHT AGAINST JUDGE THOMAS. WE HAD WITNESSES ON THE STAND. WE HAD ANOTHER WOMAN IN ONE OF THE CAROLINAS WHO HAD GIVEN A...
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| 01:04:49 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WHAT TO DO. >> WELL, THE MEETINGS WERE HELD AS TO QUESTIONING OF PROFESSOR
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| 01:05:02 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
HILL, AND AT THAT POINT THE REPUBLICAN CAUCUS DECIDED TO, IN EFFECT, HAVE A DESIGNATED QUESTION, TO HAVE MORE TIME, AND I WAS ASKED TO TAKE THE LEAD...
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| 01:05:25 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SENATOR HATCH OR
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| 01:05:27 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
YOU COULD ASK SENATOR SIMPSON OR SENATOR GRASSLEY, ALL WHOM WERE INVOLVED IN THE PROCESS. MY SPECULATION WOULD BE THAT THEY WANTED NOTICE ASK THE...
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| 01:05:57 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DEVELOPED A VERY CLOSE WORKING
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| 01:06:02 |
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RELATIONSHIP. WE ROAD THE TRAIN TOGETHER ON OCCASIONS WHEN THE SENATE WOULD BREAK ON A FRIDAY, AND WE WOULD RIDE THE TRAIN TOGETHER. WE WERE FEATURED...
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| 01:09:49 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
REPUBLICANS WOULD GET TOGETHER AND PLAN
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| 01:09:51 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
STRATEGY. DID YOU
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| 01:09:52 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TALK TO CHAIRMAN BIDEN, THE DEMOCRATS, ABOUT HOW THE WHOLE PLAN WOULD UNFOLD? >> WELL, WE TALKED ABOUT THE SCHEDULING AND ABOUT THE WAY THE QUESTIONING...
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| 01:10:04 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE QUESTIONING OF PROFESSOR HILL WAS VERY TENSE, VERY IMPORTANT, VERY DIFFICULT, AND THERE IS ALWAYS CONVERSATION AMONG SENATORS WHEN YOU HAVE WALKED...
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| 01:11:05 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WHAT YOU ASKED HIM. WHAT WERE THE THING YOU WANTED TO SNN. >> I DON'T REMEMBER
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| 01:11:10 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE SPECIFIC QUESTIONS, BUT
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| 01:11:13 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
I ASKED HIM QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT CONVERSATIONS HE HAD WITH PROFESSOR
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| 01:11:19 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
HILL. I ASKED HIM QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT CONTACTS HE HAD WITH HER WHEN THEY WERE TOGETHER AT THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION. THE SEQUENCE OF EVENTS WAS THAT...
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| 01:12:59 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
NO. I DID NOT. I WAS NOT OFFERED AN OPPORTUNITY TO MEET WITH HER. CUSTOMARILY WE DID
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| 01:13:06 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
NOT MEET WITH WITNESSES IN ADVANCE OF THE HEARINGS. THERE ARE A LOT OF WITNESSES THAT COME UP, ARE SWORN, WE QUESTION THEM WHEN THE TURN COMES. >> WHEN...
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| 01:13:22 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
NOT? >> WELL, NOTHING SPECIAL. ASK THE QUESTIONS AND WATCH THEIR DEMEANOR, SEE HOW THEY
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| 01:13:34 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
HANDLE THEMSELVES. IN THE COURSE OF BEING A TRIAL LAWYER, YOU GET A FEEL FOR WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY, AND THEN YOU LISTEN TO THEIR TESTIMONY. YOU ASK SOME...
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| 01:18:42 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
NOT NECESSARILY. YOU'RE ASKING SENATOR SPECTER, FORMER SENATOR SPECTER, WHAT DID YOU TALK
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| 01:18:52 |
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ABOUT WHEN CLARENCE THOMAS CAME ON YOUR COURTESY CALL IN 1991. THAT'S PERFECTLY LOGICAL. IF YOU SAY TO ME WHAT HAPPENED YESTERDAY WHEN PENNSYLVANIA...
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| 01:19:35 |
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MEAN BY COLLABORATING? >> WELL, DID SOMEBODY PUT HER UP TO IT? >>
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| 01:19:42 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WELL, I DID NOT SUSPECT ANYBODY OF
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| 01:19:46 |
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PUTTING HER UP TO IT. SHE HAD A BATTERY OF
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| 01:19:49 |
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LAWYERS, PEOPLE WHO WERE WITH HER ON TELEVISION. THE PICTURE CAME ACROSS 14 WHITE MEN, BLUE SUITS AND WHITE SHIRTS AND RED TIES. PROFESSOR HILL SITTING...
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| 01:20:56 |
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YOU DOUBTED HER CREDIBILITY ON THAT CAUSE YOU TO DOUBT THE REST OF HER STORY, OR DID YOU CONSIDER THE TWO SEPARATELY? >> WELL, I CONSIDERED THEM PRETTY...
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| 01:21:17 |
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SHE DID NOT RECALL A CONVERSATION IF IT HAD OCCURRED WITH A SENATE STAFFER A FEW DAYS BEFORE ON SOMETHING AS IMPORTANT AS COME FORWARD AND BE AVAILABLE...
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| 01:21:53 |
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BACK AND CHANGED HER TESTIMONY AND DID RECALL WHICH I WOULD HAVE EXPECTED HER TO HAVE RECALLED AND SHE SAID SHE DIDN'T REMEMBER, BUT JUST A FEW HOURS...
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| 01:21:58 |
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JUSTICE THOMAS AND HAIR ON THE SODA CAN OR SOME OF THE THINGS SHE SAID HE SAID TO HER, DO YOU
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| 01:22:59 |
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THINK SHE WAS TELLING THE TRUTH THEN? >> I NEVER FORMULATED THE JUDGMENT ABOUT THAT. I WOULD GIVE HER THE BENEFIT OF
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| 01:23:11 |
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THE DOUBT AND SAY THAT SHE MAY HAVE BEEN ACCURATE ABOUT IT. >> AND THEN CLARENCE THOMAS CAME BACK TO RESPOND TO THE ANITA HILL TESTIMONY. >> RIGHT....
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| 01:23:25 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WELL, HE
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| 01:23:30 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
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| 01:23:31 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
HAD -- HE DENIED WHAT HE HAD TO SAY. TO GIVE YOU A FULLER ANSWER AS TO MY EVALUATION OF HER
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| 01:23:38 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TESTIMONY, I LISTENED TO WHAT SHE SAID, AND IN THE TOTAL ITTY OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES. WE HAD HER STATEMENTS ABOUT WHAT CLARENCE THOMAS SAID TO HER ...
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| 01:26:23 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THINK HE WAS TELLING THE TRUTH? >> I DO NOT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED BETWEEN THE TWO OF THEM. WHETHER HER VERSION WAS CORRECT
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| 01:26:35 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OR HIS VERSION WAS CORRECT. I DO KNOW AND I HAVE SAID THIS BEFORE THAT MY WIFE AND I HAVE AN ARGUMENT ABOUT SOMETHING AND TEN MINUTES LATER WE CAN'T RECALL...
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| 01:27:33 |
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YOU? >> I DID FIND MYSELF TO BE THE FOCUS OF A LOT OF MEDIA ATTENTION, AND NO, IT DID NOT SURPRISE
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| 01:27:43 |
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ME. THIS WAS A BIG MATTER. THIS WAS A NOMINATION OF THE SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES. IT HAD A MAN WHO WAS 43 YEARS OLD. HE WAS AFRICAN-AMERICAN....
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| 01:32:34 |
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BECAUSE IT WAS SUCH A DRAMATIC HEARING, AND BECAUSE JUSTICE THOMAS HAS BEEN ON
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| 01:32:44 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE COURT AS OF THIS SITTING FOR ALMOST 20 YEARS AND BECAUSE THE ISSUE STILL POPS UP. JUSTICE THOMAS'S WIFE, VIRGINIA THOMAS, CALLS UP AND LEAVES...
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| 01:33:54 |
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WITH HER IN 1997. >> NOT SINCE? >> CORRECT. THE WOMEN'S GROUPS WERE HIGHLY HIGHLY CRITICAL, AND I SAW A GREAT MANY WOMEN DURING THE COURSE OF MY CAMPAIGN...
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| 01:34:01 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
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| 01:34:05 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
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| 01:34:07 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
VIEWERS WATCHING THOSE HEARINGS. ESPECIALLY WOMEN AND MEN TOO HAVE BEEN VICTIMS OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT AND THEY HAVE TOLD WHAT HAPPENED IN THEIR OWN ...
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NOTE: The transcript for this program was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.