| 00:00:47 |
Laipson, Ellen - President and CEO
WE MIGHT SAY. I THOUGHT WE MIGHT BEGIN OUR DISCUSSION TO JUST PUT, EXPLAIN TO OUR LISTENERS, UM, WHY AND HOW YOU WROTE THE BOOK, SOME OF THE METHOD...
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| 00:01:33 |
Crist, David - Colonel
ON REAGAN FOREIGN POLICY AND THE PERSIAN GULF. ONE OF THE CATALYSTS FOR ME AS FAR AS AN INTEREST IN THE REGION ITSELF WAS MY FATHER HAD BEEN THE U.S....
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| 00:04:18 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
A VERY CONTEMPORARY
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| 00:04:19 |
Crist, David - Colonel
PERIOD, THE U.S. GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL DOCUMENTS, ONLY THE VERY EARLIEST PERIOD THAT YOU'RE COVERING, HAS
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| 00:04:24 |
Laipson, Ellen - President and CEO
BEEN DECLASSIFIED. SO DID YOU HAVE TO REQUEST A LOT OF THAT -- >> Guest: I REQUESTED DOCUMENTS AND WORK THROUGH THE NORMAL MEANS THAT YOU TRY TO GET...
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| 00:04:37 |
Crist, David - Colonel
IT MIGHT ALSO BE USEFUL TO JUST REFLECT A MINUTE OR TWO ON THE ROLE OF THE HISTORIAN, THE
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| 00:04:43 |
Laipson, Ellen - President and CEO
HISTORIAN'S PERSPECTIVE AS COMPARED TO A POLITICAL SCIENTIST OR, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY WHO WANTS TO TAKE A POLICY ANALYSIS PERSPECTIVE. >> Guest: UH-HUH....
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| 00:04:58 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
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| 00:04:59 |
Laipson, Ellen - President and CEO
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| 00:05:15 |
Crist, David - Colonel
OVERARCHING THEMES THAT RUN ACROSS ALL THE ADMINISTRATIONS WHICH I THINK ARE QUITE FASCINATING. SO WHAT I TRIED TO DO IS TAKE A LOOK AT THIS IN THE LARGER...
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| 00:06:15 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IF
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| 00:06:16 |
Crist, David - Colonel
YOU WILL, OF WHICH MOSTLY TRACES BACK TO 1979. AND NEITHER SIDE SEEMS TO HAVE GOTTEN OVER IT. >> Host: YEAH. NO, IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE GENERALLY...
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| 00:06:30 |
Laipson, Ellen - President and CEO
ARE ALWAYS INVOKING WHETHER IT'S CHINA OR IRAN OR TURKEY, THEY'RE INVOKING THE GREATNESSOVER THEIR EMPIRES IN THE PAST, ETC. , AND THE UNITED STATES...
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| 00:07:03 |
Crist, David - Colonel
OR THE LEAST HISTORICAL SOCIETY. IN THIS CASE CERTAINLY THE IRANIANS EVERY TIME WE HAVE A NEGOTIATION, INCLUDING THE MOST RECENT ONES AND MOSCOW, THE...
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| 00:08:47 |
Laipson, Ellen - President and CEO
AT THE TIME OF THE REVOLUTION, THEY THEMSELVES WOULD LIKE US TO NOT BE CAPTIVE BY HISTORY. THEY WOULD LIKE US TO TRY TO REFIND SOME EQUILIBRIUM OR ENGAGING...
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| 00:09:23 |
Crist, David - Colonel
BUILT A RELATIONSHIP OR A HOUSE ON AN UNSTABLE FOUNDATION OF MISTRUST. AND OVER THE YEARS WE SORT OF ADDED TO THIS DISTRUST WITH AN EVEN LESS STABLE...
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| 00:09:47 |
Laipson, Ellen - President and CEO
IRANIAN PERSPECTIVES? DID YOU TRY TO INTERVIEW IRANIANS OR READ THEIR DOCUMENTS? >> Guest: I DID. I READ A NUMBER OF IRANIAN DOCUMENTS. I INTERVIEWED...
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| 00:09:58 |
Crist, David - Colonel
GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS THAT WERE GOOD ENOUGH TO BE AVAILABLE TO ME. AS I SAID, I INTERVIEWED HEZBOLLAH, I INTERVIEWED HAMAS REPRESENTATIVES, SPENT EIGHT...
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| 00:10:44 |
Laipson, Ellen - President and CEO
THEY PROBABLY ARE A BIT ENVIOUS OF WHAT YOU WERE ABLE TO DO IN TELLING THE U.S. SIDE OF THE STORY. I WANTED TO COMPLIMENT YOU ON HOW VIVIDLY SOME OF...
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| 00:11:36 |
Crist, David - Colonel
IN HIS OWN BASEMENT, HAD PARTIES WHERE THE ALCOHOL FLOWED FREELY, AND HIS DAUGHTER WAS ADDICTED TO DISNEY MOVIES, PARTICULARLY CINDERELLA. IT WAS A...
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| 00:14:53 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ME. ANOTHER STORY THAT I THINK'S KIND OF ALONGING
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| 00:14:56 |
Crist, David - Colonel
THE SAME LINES IS ONE WHERE, AGAIN, UNITED STATES CAUGHT AN IRANIAN MINE LAYER LAYING MINES IN INTERNATIONAL WATERS DESIGNED TO DELIBERATELY TARGET...
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| 00:16:18 |
Laipson, Ellen - President and CEO
IN IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN AND PARTICIPATED IN DESERT STORM. THE PEOPLE IN CENTCOM WHO WERE DEPLOYED IN THE GULF WHERE IRAN LOOMS LARGE, I MEAN, OVER THE...
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| 00:17:11 |
Crist, David - Colonel
THE REVOLUTIONARY GUARD, MUCH MORE TRY DEALT, MUCH MORE DEDICATED TO THE REGIME, AND THEY HAVE A REGULAR IRANIAN NAVY, ISLAMIC REPUBLIC OF ISLAM REGULAR...
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| 00:19:17 |
Laipson, Ellen - President and CEO
THE REV GUARD NAVY HAS BECOME THE MUCH STRONGER ACTOR. SOME PEOPLE EVEN BELIEVE THE REVOLUTIONARY GUARD ARE A PARALLEL POLITICAL STRUCTURE IN IRAN,...
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| 00:19:38 |
Crist, David - Colonel
ARMY EQUIVALENT TO THE REVOLUTIONARY GUARD TOO, THE REVOLUTIONARY GUARD'S THE SUPREME ONE. THEIR CONVENTIONAL NAVY, FOR EXAMPLE, PARTLY BECAUSE OF...
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| 00:20:29 |
Crist, David - Colonel
STATES, FOR EXAMPLE. I WOULD SAY THAT A LOT OF THE IRANIAN OFFICERS STILL LOVE AMERICAN EQUIPMENT. THEY GOT AN INFLUX OF SOVIET-MADE EQUIPMENT AFTER...
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| 00:20:56 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THOSE GUYS, I THINK IT'S
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| 00:20:57 |
Crist, David - Colonel
PRETTY WELL FADED. >> Host: YEAH. WE HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM WHICH IS THE GENERATION THAT HAD LEARNED FARSI AND HAD HOPED TO BE STATIONED IN IRAN FOR,
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| 00:21:06 |
Laipson, Ellen - President and CEO
IN VARIOUS CIVILIAN CAPACITIES, THOSE FOLKS HAVE ALSO, YOU KNOW, MOST OF THEM HAVE FINISHED THEIR PROFESSIONAL CAREERS, AND SO WE REALLY DO HAVE A...
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| 00:21:28 |
Crist, David - Colonel
OF THE GUYS WHO WAS REALLY ON ACTIVE DUTY IN THE FOREIGN SERVICE WHO HAD REAL EXPERIENCE WITH IRAN. >> Host: UH-HUH. SO LET'S START TO TALK ABOUT SOME...
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| 00:21:42 |
Laipson, Ellen - President and CEO
ABOUT ENGAGEMENTS BETWEEN U.S. AND IRANIAN FORCES. SOMETIMES ONE SENSES THAT THESE WERE NOT NECESSARILY PLANNED AT THE HIGHEST LEVELS TO BE PROVOCATIVE,...
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| 00:24:05 |
Crist, David - Colonel
HAPPENS IN THE MID 1980s, IT WAS ABOUT THE TIME THE U.S. MAKES A TRANSITION MILITARILY FROM WORRYING ABOUT THE SOVIET UNION AS THE GREAT THREAT OF INVADING...
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| 00:26:58 |
Laipson, Ellen - President and CEO
PLANNING VERSUS CURRENT POLICY. SO WHEN YOU'RE A PROFESSION BAL MILITARY -- PROFESSIONAL MILITARY OFFICER, YOU SPEND A GOOD PART OF YOUR CAREER ALMOST...
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| 00:28:21 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
PLAN. I MEAN, THAT'S
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| 00:28:22 |
Laipson, Ellen - President and CEO
WHAT THEY'RE THERE FOR, AND I THINK IF THEY DIDN'T
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| 00:28:25 |
Crist, David - Colonel
PLAN FOR CONTINGENCIES OF ALL SORTS, IRAN OR ELSEWHERE, THEY'RE NOT DOING THEIR JOB. BECAUSE IF A CRISIS HAPPENS, YOU JUST CAN'T MAKE THESE THINGS UP...
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| 00:29:46 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
HEADLINES OF THE NEW YORK TIMES, THEY WOULD
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| 00:29:48 |
Crist, David - Colonel
HAVE REALIZED WHAT THE U.S. WAS ABOUT, BUT AS SOMEBODY SAID AT THE TIME, APPARENTLY THE SUPREME LEADER'S SUBSCRIPTION HAD LAPSED. [LAUGHTER] THAT...
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| 00:30:10 |
Laipson, Ellen - President and CEO
YOU. >> ON THE GO? "AFTER WORDS" IS AVAILABLE VIA PODCAST THROUGH iTunes AND
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| 00:30:17 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
XML. VISIT BookTV.ORG
|
| 00:30:18 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AND CLICK PODCAST ON THE UPPER LEFT SIDE OF THE PAGE. SELECT WHICH PODCAST YOU'D LIKE TO DOWNLOAD, AND LISTEN TO "AFTER WORDS "WHILE YOU TRAVEL. >> Host:...
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| 00:30:35 |
Laipson, Ellen - President and CEO
TO BETWEEN MILITARIES AND CIVILIANS IN OUR GOVERNMENT ON, YOU KNOW, HOW DO MANAGE THIS IRAN PROBLEM. HOW DO WE ACT IN A WAY THAT SENDS CLEAR SIGNALS...
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| 00:32:09 |
Crist, David - Colonel
ALONE THE U.S. GOVERNMENT, OF HOW TO APPROACH IRAN. THE ISSUE WAS REALLY BETWEEN -- THERE WAS AN ADMIRAL BY THE NAME OF JAMES "ACE" LYONS. HE WAS...
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| 00:35:30 |
Laipson, Ellen - President and CEO
MORE LOWER-RANKING MILITARY OFFICER IN THE GULF. >> Guest: UH-HUH. >> Host: IF YOU'RE SERVING ON ONE OF THE SHIPS THAT'S BASED OUT OF ONE OF THE COUNTRIES...
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| 00:35:41 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OF IN THE ABSTRACT
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| 00:35:42 |
Laipson, Ellen - President and CEO
THAT IRAN IS PERHAPS THE LARGEST THREAT, LARGEST PIECE OF THE THREAT ENVIRONMENT. IT'S NO LONGER THE SOVIET UNION OR THE RUSSIANS, WE'RE NOT WORRIED...
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| 00:36:58 |
Crist, David - Colonel
DIFFICULT PROBLEM WITH, AS I DESCRIBED, SORT OF THIS RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN PEACE AND WAR, BETWEEN LIGHT OR DARKNESS. IT'S NOT AN EASY, IT'S NOT QUITE...
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| 00:38:46 |
Laipson, Ellen - President and CEO
OF BELOW THE THRESHOLD OF A BIG POLITICAL -- >> Guest: RIGHT. >> Host: -- BREAKTHROUGH, BUT STILL SOMETHING VERY USEFUL AND PRAGMATIC. >> Guest: ABSOLUTELY....
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| 00:38:57 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
GET TO AT LEAST THAT STEP, IT WOULD
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| 00:38:59 |
Laipson, Ellen - President and CEO
HELP. AND, AGAIN, IT DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE
|
| 00:39:02 |
Crist, David - Colonel
GRAND GEOSTRATEGIC CALCULATIONS OR THE WAY THE GOVERNMENTS VIEW EACH OTHER. IT'S -- WE DID IT WITH THE SOVIET UNION WHEN THERE WAS TREMENDOUS ADVERSARY,...
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| 00:39:21 |
Laipson, Ellen - President and CEO
WAR, COLD WAR, YOU KNOW, HOW DO WE UNDERSTAND THIS U.S./IRAN STORY. UM, THE COLD WAR, IN SOME WAYS I THINK, IS A USEFUL ANALOGY BECAUSE THERE'S PIECES...
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| 00:42:14 |
Crist, David - Colonel
DIPLOMATIC OPENING THE PRESIDENT'S DONE IS THE CORRECT ONE. I THINK IRAN HAS A UNIQUE ABILITY OF TAKING EVERYTHING UP TO THE BRINK AND THEN SUDDENLY...
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| 00:43:32 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WE, YOU KNOW,
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| 00:43:33 |
Crist, David - Colonel
THE POLICYMAKERS ARE FRAMING THE PERIOD AHEAD AND REALLY THE IRANIANS
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| 00:43:37 |
Laipson, Ellen - President and CEO
HAVE A CHOICE TO MAKE, AND THERE IS A SOLUTION THAT WOULD GET US TO A MORE, YOU KNOW, A DIFFERENT OUTCOME. ONE ARGUMENT IS MADE THAT, UM, YOU KNOW,...
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| 00:44:44 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
I THINK YOU'LL, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T FIGHT ARMY/NAVY/AIR FORCE ANYMORE, WE FIGHT ALTOGETHER. >> Host: UH-HUH. >> Guest: SO I THINK UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES...
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| 00:44:58 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IT. AND
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| 00:44:59 |
Crist, David - Colonel
THE SYNERGY WE HAVE PARTICULARLY AFTER TEN YEARS OF WAR, UM, WHEN IT COMES TO A LOT OF THIS, THE POLITICAL IN-FIGHTING THAT WAS DONE EVEN IN 2002 --...
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| 00:45:35 |
Laipson, Ellen - President and CEO
BIT OF TIME REFLECTING ON, YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE THEIR REQUIREMENTS, SECURITY REQUIREMENTS, WHAT ARE THEIR EXPECTATIONS? YOU'VE SAID THAT THEIR CAPABILITIES...
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| 00:46:38 |
Crist, David - Colonel
ONE OF THE ENDURING CONSTANTS, IF YOU WILL, OF U.S. FOREIGN POLICY -- AND I THINK IT COMES THROUGH IN THIS DIFFERENT PHASES -- IS THE DESIRE TO PARTNER...
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| 00:47:44 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
|
| 00:47:45 |
Crist, David - Colonel
GOING TO OPERATE IN THE MIDDLE EAST BACK TO THE CARTER ADMINISTRATION, THERE'S AN ENDURING CONSTANT THAT WE CAN'T TO THIS ALONE. WE HAVE TO HAVE PARTNERS...
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| 00:48:09 |
Laipson, Ellen - President and CEO
|
| 00:48:34 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
|
| 00:48:35 |
Laipson, Ellen - President and CEO
PLAYING IN A CONTINGENCY WITH RESPECT TO IRAN? >> Guest: THAT'S, THAT'S A COMPLETELY UNANSWERED QUESTION. I THINK IRAQ IS IN A TRANSITION PERIOD. I...
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| 00:48:54 |
Crist, David - Colonel
YOU KNOW, THE GULF STATES WILL COME AROUND. THERE IS THIS SUNNI/SHIA ISSUE WHICH I THINK IS THE FUNDAMENTAL DIVIDE AND THEIR MISTRUST OF IRAQ. UM,...
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| 00:51:32 |
Crist, David - Colonel
WAS A BRITISH NAVAL BOARDING PARTY THAT WAS INSPECTING OR, ESSENTIALLY, LOOKING FOR SMUGGLERS OFF THE COAST OF IRAQ, A LONGSTANDING MISSION THAT WE ...
|
| 00:52:19 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
GUARD COMMANDER AND A COUPLE OF
|
| 00:52:21 |
Crist, David - Colonel
BOATS ON HIS OWN INITIATIVE, WITHOUT ANY ORDERS -- A VERY AGGRESSIVE YOUNG OFFICER -- COMES STORMING OVER WHILE MOST OF THE BRITISH ARE STILL ON THE...
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| 00:54:19 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
INITIATIVE. >> Guest: -- INITIATIVE,
|
| 00:54:20 |
Crist, David - Colonel
AND THIS SORT OF BEHAVIOR, SERIOUS RISK TAKING. IF THE BRITISH HAD DECIDED TO RESIST, IT COULD HAVE LED TO
|
| 00:54:26 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
A MUCH WIDER
|
| 00:54:27 |
Crist, David - Colonel
CONFLICT IN THE NORTHERN GULF. AND SO IT FIGURES INTO A WHOLE VIEW OF THE REVOLUTIONARY GUARD AND MAYBE THESE GUYS ARE QUICK TO OPERATE WITHOUT ORDERS,...
|
| 00:54:53 |
Laipson, Ellen - President and CEO
ABOUT THEIR BEHAVIOR, IT'S HARDER AND HARDER FOR US TO FIGURE OUT, YOU KNOW, WHERE ARE THE POINTS OF ENTRY TO HAVE A MORE PRODUCTIVE OR CONSTRUCTIVE...
|
| 00:57:55 |
Crist, David - Colonel
A SYMPTOM OF THE PROBLEM, NOT NECESSARILY THE PROBLEM ITSELF. THE PROBLEM IS REALLY 0 YEARS OF -- 30 YEARS OF DISTRUST AND ENMITY BETWEEN THE TWO COUNTRIES....
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| 00:59:57 |
Laipson, Ellen - President and CEO
ITS
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NOTE: The transcript for this program was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.