| 00:00:03 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
COPYRIGHT NATIONAL CABLE SATELLITE CORP. 2012] >>
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| 00:00:05 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CAN WE FIRST LOOK AT EXHIBITS GB3, TAB FOUR.
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| 00:00:15 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
FIRST OF ALL, WHAT IS THE SOURCE OF THIS LIST? >> AND THE CALL THAT I WOULD HAVE MADE REGARDING DOWNING STREET, THERE WAS A SWITCHBOARD THAT WOULD TAKE...
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| 00:00:33 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE WORLD, IT WAS WHOEVER I WANTED TO SPEAK TO, AS WELL AS ANYONE ELSE ON THIS LIST, I WOULD COME IMMEDIATELY. >> DOES IT CALL IN AS MUCH AS OUT? >>...
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| 00:01:04 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
PHONE OR LAND LINE PHONES. IT WOULD INCLUDE ANY TELEPHONE CONVERSATION I HAD HAD WITH SOMEONE LIKE MR. MURDOCH. >> WAS AT PRACTICE TO CALL UP DIRECTLY...
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| 00:01:22 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SOMEONE LIKE MR. MURDOCH. I WOULD ALWAYS GO THROUGH DOWNING STREET. YOU WOULD WANT SOMEONE ON THE PHONE CALL. YOU WOULD WANT
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| 00:01:30 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TO HAVE RECORD OF WHAT WAS BEING SAID AND EXACTLY THE TIME YOU DID THE CALL AND EVERYTHING ELSE. THERE IS NO QUESTION THAT ANY PHONE CALL COULD HAVE...
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| 00:01:54 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE CALL TO TAKE PLACE WITHOUT GOING THROUGH DOWNING STREET? >> IF I WAS CALLING IN NEWSPAPER PROPRIETOR OR POLITICAL MEDIA AROUND THE WORLD, CALLING...
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| 00:02:10 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WOULD ALWAYS GO THROUGH DOWNING STREET. I WILL ALWAYS WANTS SOMEONE ON THE CALL TO VERIFY WHAT HAPPENED. THAT IS THE WAY THAT WE DID THINGS AT THAT TIME....
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| 00:02:46 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ONE LETTER WAS SENT THROUGH E- MAIL, BUT IT WAS SENT THROUGH DOWNING STREET. I WOULD NOT HAVE HAD ONE OF THOSE PROPRIETORS ON MY MOBILE PHONE. >> WE CAN...
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| 00:03:10 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ON THE 10TH OF NOVEMBER, 2009, AT 12:33 IN THE AFTERNOON. CAN YOU REMEMBER WHAT MR. MURDOCH WANTED FROM NEW YORK ON THAT OCCASION? >> HE MAY HAVE JUST...
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| 00:03:32 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
HAPPENING OVER AFGHANISTAN. >> THERE IS OTHER SURROUNDING EVIDENCE THAT BEARS ON THE CALL. UNDER TAB NO.
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| 00:03:42 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
2, GB1, OUR PAGE 14228, THERE IS AN E-MAIL THAT YOU HAD CAUSE TO SEND TO MR. MURDOCH'S REFERRING TO THE TELEPHONE CALL THE YOU HAD EARLIER IN THAT DAY,...
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| 00:04:12 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
PUBLIC SUPPORT AND WHAT WAS HAPPENING. >> HE GOT IT THAT DAY, BUT IT WAS A LETTER THAT WAS SENT IN FOLLOW UP, BECAUSE THERE WAS A CAUSE FROM
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| 00:04:23 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THREE LETTERS, ONE WHICH WAS KEY TO THIS INQUIRY. THE KEY LETTERS ON AFGHANISTAN OVER THREE MONTHS, WHICH WAS THE ONLY TIME IN GOVERNMENT I EVER HAD...
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| 00:04:49 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
33. >> THE FAMOUS AND WRITING, YES, WHICH SOMEONE SAID IS CERTAINLY LEGIBLE. >> THERE YOU HAVE
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| 00:04:59 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE TRANSCRIPTION OF IT. SOMEWHERE.
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| 00:05:06 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THERE IS A QUESTION WE HAD ABOUT 01917. THERE IS ANOTHER ONE THERE, MR. BROWN. THE 26 OF APRIL, UNDER TAB 14, 09121 -- >> THAT IS AND WRITTEN. ONE...
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| 00:05:33 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WAS THE FIFTH OF APRIL, THE OTHER THE 26 OF APRIL, AND EARLIER WAS DECEMBER 2009.
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| 00:05:41 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ARE YOU CLEAR, MR. BROWN, YOU HAD NO CONVERSATION WITH MR. MURDOCH SHORTLY AFTER THE WITHDRAWAL AND SUPPORT OF THE -- THE WITHDRAWAL OF SUPPORT FROM "THE...
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| 00:06:15 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CONVERSATION NEVER TOOK PLACE. I AM SHOCKED AND SURPRISED THAT IT SHOULD BE SUGGESTED, EVEN WHEN THERE IS NO EVIDENCE, THAT IT SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED. AFTER...
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| 00:07:41 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IS IT POSSIBLE THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE UNDER THAT SORT OF LANGUAGE? >> THERE IS ONLY ONE FURTHER TELEPHONE CALL, AND THAT WAS IN NOVEMBER. IF I MIGHT SAY,...
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| 00:07:56 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THAT LED TO THAT CALL WAS ON A MONDAY, REGARDING DISRESPECTING THE TROOPS. THE FOLLOWING SUNDAY THEY SAID THAT I HAD BEEN DISCOURTEOUS AND WRITTEN A...
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| 00:12:28 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SHE WAS NO LONGER WITH "THE SUN ,". SHE CHARACTERIZED U.S. ANGRY AND AGGRESSIVE. IS THAT RIGHT, OR NOT? >> I DO NOT THINK SO. I HAD WRITTEN A LETTER...
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| 00:12:49 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SHE HAD TO SAY. UNFORTUNATELY, SHE WANTED TO TELL ME THAT THE -- THAT "THE SUN" HAD GOTTEN A COPY OF THE PHONE CALL WITH MRS. JAMES AND SHE HAD A LOT...
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| 00:13:59 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WAS DIFFICULT, BECAUSE WE WERE GOING THROUGH TIME WHEN THE ENTIRE
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| 00:14:07 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AFGHANISTAN LINE WAS THAT WE WERE NOT CARING ABOUT OUR TROOPS. AS MY LETTERS TO RUPERT MURDOCH SHOW, THIS WAS A RIGHT WAY TO MOVE FORWARD. NOT BY ANYTHING...
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| 00:14:44 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OPPORTUNITY TO INVESTIGATE FURTHER A PRIVATE CONVERSATION -- [LAUGHTER] >> I THINK THAT IN THESE CIRCUMSTANCES, YOU ARE SURPRISED WHAT COMES BACK TO...
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| 00:15:02 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
FORTHCOMING AND THAT SOMEONE WOULD REMOVE THIS PERSONAL ELEMENT OF THEIR ATTACKS OVER AFGHANISTAN IT IS REALLY ABOUT FINDING OUT WHAT IS A SURPRISE TO...
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| 00:15:38 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CALMER WHEN YOU'RE DEALING
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| 00:15:43 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WITH THIS. >> THE LAST LETTER, HAND WRITTEN IN THE GENERAL ELECTION
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| 00:15:53 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CAMPAIGN, WHY DID YOU TAKE TIME TO WRITE IN THIS PERSONAL HAND WRITTEN LETTER AT ALL. >> FOR THE FIRST TIME HE SAID HE DISAGREED WITH MANAGEMENT AT...
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| 00:16:12 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
PERFECTLY CIVILIZED AND COURTEOUS. I WISHED HIS FAMILY WELL AT THE END OF MY LETTERS AND EVERYTHING ELSE. AND HE SAID HE DISAGREED ENTIRELY AND I THOUGHT...
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| 00:17:56 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THERE WERE TWO BIG ISSUES THEN. ONE WAS A GLOBAL ECONOMIC CRISIS, WHICH WE HAD TO DEAL WITH.
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| 00:18:07 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WE TOOK EXTRAORDINARY ACTION IN BRITAIN. I FEEL THAT INTERNATIONAL LEADERSHIP IS SOMETHING THAT IS NEEDED. AT THE SAME TIME, WE WERE TRYING TO PREVENT...
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| 00:19:48 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WERE NOT ON THE FARE -- SAME PAGE, POLITICALLY. IS THAT FAIR? >> I DID NOT SEE HIM THAT MUCH. AND I DISAGREE ABOUT MANY
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| 00:20:02 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THINGS ON POLITICS. LIKE ME, HE BELIEVES THAT THIS IS AN ETHICAL BASIS FOR A POLITICAL SYSTEM AND THAT THAT IS AN ISSUE THAT WAS NOT PROPERLY ADDRESSED...
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| 00:21:19 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ONE OF THE HUGE DIVIDING LINES OVER THE LAST 10
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| 00:21:30 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
YEARS, I WAS IN A MINORITY. MY COLLEAGUE, THE ECONOMIC ADVISER OF THE TIME DID AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF WORK THAT PROVED TO MY SATISFACTION THAT IT COULD...
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| 00:22:22 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
MAIL -- "THE DAILY MAIL," IN YOUR VIEW? >> PERSONALLY, I HAVE STRONG OPINIONS ABOUT EXCEPTED GAMBLING. I THOUGHT
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| 00:22:37 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THAT 24-HOUR LICENSING WAS CAUSING A PROBLEM. I DO NOT KNOW THE EFFECT ON SOFT DRUGS. THESE ARE VIEWS THAT I HOLD PERSONALLY. >> SECTION CIST -- SECTION...
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| 00:23:18 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THERE WAS A TIME AT WHICH YOU WERE STILL CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER. DID YOU CONSIDER RAISING THOSE AT THE TIME, OR NOT? >> WE HAD TO MAKE A JUDGMENT...
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| 00:23:42 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IN THE BEGINNING ABOUT THE PROTECTIONS AVAILABLE. THE ACTIONS THAT WE MAY HAVE TAKEN MAY HAVE INITIALLY BEEN FOUND UNACCEPTABLE. THERE WERE THESE PUBLIC...
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| 00:25:23 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THERE WAS A DINNER THAT YOU HADN'T ON THE SEPTEMBER 10, 2007, WHICH WE HAVE IN THE 34TH BUNDLE. DO YOU REMEMBER THE ISSUE BEING DISCUSSED ON THAT OCCASION?...
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| 00:25:50 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AFRAID. I SAID THAT THERE SHOULD BE A DEFENSE. THEREFORE, IT WAS NOT A QUESTION OF THEM LOBBYING MEET. I WAS INFORMING THEM THAT MICHAEL WILL'S HAD DONE...
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| 00:26:29 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OF NOVEMBER, 2008. HE SAYS THAT 80 MONTHS AGO -- I HAD DINNER WITH THE PRIME MINISTER, GORDON BROWN. ON THE AGENDA WAS OUR DEEP CONCERN THAT THE NEWSPAPER...
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| 00:27:14 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
HEAR YOURS. I HAVE ALREADY MADE UP MY MIND BEFORE I WENT INTO THE MEETING. I HAD TOLD MICHAEL THAT THERE SHOULD BE A PUBLIC INTEREST DEFENSE FOR THE IMPLEMENTATION...
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| 00:29:15 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DEFENSE FOR DATA PROTECTION DEFENSES. BUT IT WAS NOT FOR A MOMENT SUGGESTING A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN OTHER BREACHES OF CRIMINAL LAW THAT THEY CREATE A...
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| 00:29:44 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
YOU ARE NOT SUGGESTING, OR ARE YOU, SUGGESTING THAT THERE SHOULD BE A PUBLIC INTEREST DEFENSE IN RELATION TO ANY CRIME? >>
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| 00:29:54 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
I AM SAYING THAT I THINK THAT THE PRESS HAS
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| 00:30:04 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
COMPLAINT COUNSEL GUIDELINES SUGGESTING THAT THERE IS A PUBLIC INTEREST STATE IN WHICH MEETINGS ARE AN ISSUE AND THEY NEED TO BE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT WHEN...
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| 00:30:35 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
YOU, ASKING YOU THIS IN AN ENTIRELY OPEN WAY, OF COURSE IN RELATION TO ANY CRIMINAL OFFENSE, IS THE AGENDA IN A PUBLIC INTEREST? OR IS IT REASONABLY...
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| 00:31:46 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WAS CONSCIOUS THAT THERE WAS A PUBLIC ISSUE RAISED AND IT SEEMED TO ME THAT THIS WAS REASONABLE. >> THE ACCOUNT IS THAT YOU WERE HUGELY SYMPATHETIC TO...
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| 00:32:08 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THAT YOU WERE PERSUADED BY THE PUBLIC CASE. IS THAT FAIR? >> I DISTINCTLY REMEMBER THAT CONVERSATION. I THINK THAT THEY WOULD CONFIRM THAT I WAS PERSUADED...
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| 00:32:24 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
NEEDED THIS DEFENSE. WE WERE TALKING ABOUT HOW WE COULD DO THIS. I THINK WE SENT TO AN EXTRACT FROM IT. I FELT THAT THE DEBATE AS WRITTEN HAD BEEN COLORED....
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| 00:33:52 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE SPEECH HE REFERRED TO, OCTOBER 2007, IT OBVIOUSLY POSTDATES THE DINNER.
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| 00:34:07 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ARGUABLY, IF YOU LOOK AT THE SECOND PAGE OF THE SPEECH, PAGE 14235 -- >> I THINK THAT I REMEMBER WHEN I SAID. >> TAKING INTO ACCOUNT -- >> 31? >>
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| 00:34:33 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CONFUSING, THAT IS THE SECOND PAGE OF THE SPEECH THAT INVOLVES THE NUMBER ON THE SPEECH. >> IT IS AN
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| 00:34:46 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
EXTRACT.
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| 00:34:53 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE COMMISSIONER HAS BEEN ASK TO PRODUCE AND GUIDANCE TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT CONCERNS OVER THE NEW RULES ALLOWING FOR A SENTENCE OF UP TO TWO YEARS. AT...
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| 00:35:24 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THAT DID NOT COME UNTIL MARCH 20 -- 2008. >> WHAT YOU'RE SAYING HERE
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| 00:35:33 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IS THAT CLEAR GUIDANCE WOULD MAKE SURE THAT LEGITIMATE INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALISM WAS NOT IMPEDED UPON.
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| 00:35:41 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
YOU ARE KEEN TO PROTECT LEGITIMATE INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALISM, BUT WHERE THAT IS NOT TRIGGERED THERE WOULD BE A SOUND SHOW TO PROTECT INDIVIDUAL PRIVACY?...
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| 00:36:01 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IT IS WORTH NOTING IN THIS SPEECH THAT AT THE TOP OF THE SAME SPADE -- SAME PACE --
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| 00:36:10 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE SAME PAGE, IT SHOULD BE MAINTAINED AS ADEQUATE. CORRECT? >> WE HAVE NEVER PROPOSED THAT THAT SHOULD HAPPEN. I THINK THAT TONY BLAIR EXPLAINED THAT...
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| 00:36:27 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WE HAD DECIDED THAT THIS WAS NOT A PRIORITY FOR US AND NOT PART OF THE MANDATE, SO IT WAS OBVIOUS THAT THAT WAS NOT WHAT WE WERE DOING. >> WHAT ABOUT...
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| 00:36:51 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OF 2007, TAKING INTO ACCOUNT THE POWERFUL VIEWS OF THE PRESS? >> I HAVE EXPLAINED THE BACKGROUND TO MY OWN VIEWS. I REALLY DID NOT NEED PERSUADING BY
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| 00:37:09 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
MR. BAKER ABOUT THIS. OR WHOEVER ELSE WAS THERE. >> BEFORE THE 10TH OF SEPTEMBER, 2007, BROUGHT EXCEPTIONAL COMMUNICATIONS. >> WE HAD
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| 00:37:27 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CONVERSATIONS ABOUT A LOT OF THOSE THINGS. I DO NOT THINK THAT THERE WAS AN INFORMAL MEETING ABOUT IT,
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| 00:37:34 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BUT WE WERE HAVING CONVERSATIONS. >> THE EVIDENCE WAS ALONG THE LINE OF BOWING TO PRESSURES FROM CRIMINAL JUSTICE
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| 00:37:47 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
INVESTIGATION, THE EIGHTH OF MAY, 2008, THE COMPROMISE WAS CARVED UP, AS IT WERE, STARTING IN MARCH OF 2008. DO YOU RECALL THAT? >> I RECALL CONVERSATIONS...
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| 00:38:09 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
I BELIEVE THAT WE DID. >> CAN I ASK YOU NOW ABOUT THE ISSUE OF SPECIAL ADVISERS? I WANT TO PUT TO YOU A NUMBER OF QUESTIONS ABOUT THEM.
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| 00:38:26 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
MR. CAMPBELL AND HIS SECOND WITNESS STATEMENT SUGGESTED THAT THERE WAS A REAL PROBLEM WITH A SPECIAL TREASURY ADVISOR, MEANING MR. LELAND. DO YOU AGREE...
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| 00:38:53 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THING THAT I INSISTED ON, AND THIS DEALS WITH THE POINT ABOUT MR. CAMPBELL, OUR POLITICAL OF VISOR'S WORKED THROUGH HEADS OF COMMUNICATION. ANYTHING THEY...
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| 00:39:30 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
I ASKED THEM TO OPERATE UNDER
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| 00:39:36 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THESE RULES. HE WOULD HAVE TO REPORT TO ME IF THOSE THINGS WERE WRONG. >> IF THEY DID INDULGE IN THIS BEHAVIOR, IT WOULD BE WITHOUT THEIR KNOWLEDGE,...
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| 00:39:55 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THEY WERE CONVINCED THAT GORDON BROWN AND HIS AIDES HAD CONSPIRED TO FORCE HIS
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| 00:40:10 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
EARLY RESIGNATION. >> I THINK THAT IS TONY BLAIR'S OF VIEW, NOT MINE, AND AGAIN YOU ARE RELYING ON SECOND-HAND CONVERSATIONS FROM PEOPLE WHO
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| 00:40:21 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WERE NOT INVOLVED IN THE EVENTS. >> WERE YOUR AIDES INVOLVED IN USING FORCE ON THE DESIGNATION IN 2006?
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| 00:40:33 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WERE THEY INVOLVED? >> I WOULD HOPE NOT. >> MR. BLAIR SAID THAT HE DID NOT KNOW THAT YOU, MR. WHEELING, MR. MCBRIDE, WERE BRIEFING AGAINST HIM IN THE...
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| 00:40:49 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
YOU AUTHORIZE YOUR AIDES TO AUTHORIZE AGAINST MR. BLAIR? >> NO. >> DO YOU THINK THEY MAY HAVE DONE SO WITHOUT YOUR KNOWLEDGE OR APPROVAL? >> IF THEY...
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| 00:41:02 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IT WAS WITHOUT MY AUTHORIZATION. >> ROLE OF AN AID OR SPECIAL ADVISER IS ONLY TO IMPACT WITH
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| 00:41:09 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
YOUR EXPRESSED ADVISORY? >> I AM TRYING
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| 00:41:13 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TO EXPLAIN WHY WE CHANGE THE SYSTEM WHEN WE WENT TO NO. 10 AND WHAT I THOUGHT IT A BETTER TO HAVE POLITICAL ADVISERS.
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| 00:41:20 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THEY WERE A NEW DEVELOPMENT FROM THE 1970'S AND ON WORDS. YOU HAVE ALWAYS WORKED THE CIVIL SERVANTS. POLITICAL ADVISERS ARE OBVIOUSLY PARTY PEOPLE WITH...
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| 00:42:56 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
NO, BUT IF THE CIVIL SERVICE HEAD OF COMMUNICATIONS WAS INFORMED, THEN THAT WAS THE WAY THAT ANYTHING WOULD HAVE TO BE DONE IN
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| 00:43:05 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
RELATION TO BRIEFINGS. IT WOULD HAVE TO BE COMMUNICATION BETWEEN HIM AND ANY POLITICAL ADVISOR. IT IS NOT REALISTIC TO EXPECT A POLITICAL ADVISOR WILL...
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| 00:43:31 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TO THREATEN HIS BOSSES INTEREST. IS THAT CORRECT OR NOT? >> THIS IS WHAT I MEAN ABOUT TIT-FOR-TAT. YOU HAVE A RUMOR, INNUENDO, PEOPLE SAYING SOMETHING...
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| 00:43:48 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ELSE. I DO NOT KNOW THE TRUTH OF ALL THESE THINGS. WHAT I CAN SAY, THE PEOPLE UNDER ME WERE UNDER SPECIFIC GUIDANCE ON WHAT TO DO. THAT IS THE IMPORTANT...
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| 00:44:15 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
RAISED THE ISSUE OF DAMIEN MCBRIDE WITH YOU, REACHING WHAT HE THOUGHT WAS A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING THAT HE WOULD BE TRANSFERRED TO THE CABINET OFFICE AS...
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| 00:44:40 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
READ THIS, BY THE WAY. THIS APPEARS TO BE HIS MEMOIRS. I CANNOT REMEMBER -- MR. MCBRIDE WAS PUSHED BACK FROM A FRONT- LINE ROLE. HE WAS GIVEN A NEW ROLE....
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| 00:45:17 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THERE IS NO DOUBT MR. MENDELSON DID NOT WANT MR. MCBRIDE, BUT THERE WAS NO DISCUSSION ABOUT CABINET OFFICE. WE PROBABLY TALKED
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| 00:45:27 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ABOUT HOW MR. MCBRIDE WAS MOVING BACK FROM WHAT YOU CALL THE FRONT LINE AND THAT HE HAD A DIFFERENT ROLE, BUT IN THE END, IT WAS ONLY A FEW MONTHS LATER...
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| 00:45:49 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
NOT REMEMBER ANY SPECIFIC DOCUMENTATION OR LETTERS. THEY MAY HAVE SAID SOMETHING IN
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| 00:45:56 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CONVERSATION. >> DID THEY WARN YOU ABOUT MR. MCBRIDE? >> I DO NOT KNOW WHETHER YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN THE LEAKING OF THESE E-MAILS....
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| 00:46:11 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
I WAS CLEAR THAT HE HAD TO GO. >> I AM TALKING ABOUT AN EARLIER WARNING. >> I DO NOT RECALL OTHER CONVERSATIONS. PERHAPS YOU HAVE BETTER INFORMATION...
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| 00:46:27 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
VIEW THAT MR. MCBRIDE HAD TO CHANGE HIS ROLE. >> YOU WERE ALSO WORN BY ADAM DELEVAN AND DOUGLAS ALEXANDER ABOUT MR. MCBRIDE. >> WHEN I SAY THERE WAS...
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| 00:46:47 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE EFFECT OF ONE OR TWO PEOPLE AND HAVE TALKED ABOUT IT TO ME. THE
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| 00:46:52 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
FACT WAS, HE WAS MOVED BACK TO HIS ORIGINAL ROLE AND THEN WE HAD THIS INCIDENT WHERE HE HAD TO GO. MR. MCBRIDE WAS A CAREER CIVIL SERVANT. HE HAS WORKEDHAD...
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| 00:47:22 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ABOUT -- DID YOU HEED THEIR WARNINGS? >> WHAT IS MATERIAL TO THIS, I SUSPECT, IS WONDERING WHAT THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN POLITICAL ADVISERS IS. I WAS...
|
| 00:47:36 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WE HAD TO MOVE MR. MCBRIDE FROM HIS ORIGINAL ROLE TO A NEW ROLE. HE HAD BEEN MOVED INTO THE NEW ROLE AND THEN WE HAD THIS INSTANT, AND THEN HE HAD TO...
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| 00:47:55 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
NOT AT ALL. >> YOU HAVE SEEN THE EXTRACT OF MR. DARLING'S MEMOIRS IN WHICH HE IS CONVINCED THAT YOU DID. >>
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| 00:48:07 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
I THINK THIS ISSUE ABOUT BACK FROM THE BRINK -- WHICH I ONLY READ FOR THE FIRST TIME YESTERDAY, THIS EXTRACT -- IS AN
|
| 00:48:17 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
INTERVIEW THAT ALASTAIR GAVE TO "THE GUARDIAN." THE ISSUE WAS SEE HAVE BEENQUOTED AS SAYING THAT THIS WAS THE WORST CRISIS FOR THE BRITISH ECONOMY IN...
|
| 00:48:53 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ANONYMOUS BRIEFINGS FOR COMING FROM AND THAT THEY HAD TO STOP? >> THERE MAY HAVE BEEN A CONVERSATION LIKE THAT. THIS CONVERSATION BETWEEN GOVERNMENT --
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| 00:49:04 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
EVERYBODY WORRIES ABOUT WHO IS SAYING WHAT ABOUT WHOM, SO ON AND SO FORTH. THE ONE THING I CAN SAY TO YOU, WHICH IS ABSOLUTELY CLEAR, I'M NOT SURE HOW...
|
| 00:49:39 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IS ABOUT TERRY BECKETT. HE SAYS HE DID NOT ORDER HIS NIGHTS TO GO AND KILL BECCA BUT THEY BELIEVE THEY HAD HIS BLESSING TO DO SO. HIS DAD NEAR THE...
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| 00:49:59 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ON THE INCIDENT YOU ARE REFERRING TO, THERE WAS AN INTERVIEW GIVEN TO "THE GUARDIAN" ABOUT THE ECONOMIC CRISIS. ALISTAIR WAS SURE THAT YET TALKED ABOUT...
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| 00:50:41 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
FROM JUNE 2008. IT RELATES TO THE WITHDRAWAL OF THE MCCARTHY KNIGHTHOOD. HE MAKES THE SPECIFIC ALLEGATION THAT YOU BRIEFED OR CONSTRUCTED -- INSTRUCTED...
|
| 00:51:16 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
JUNE 2008, SO HE WAS WORKING FOR YOU. >> I DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS. DESPITE THE FACT THAT MY NAME IS MENTIONED IN THIS
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| 00:51:30 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
LETTER, WE HAD NOT TALKED ABOUT THIS IN ANY DETAIL. I DO NOT KNOW MUCH ABOUT THIS INCIDENT. I KNOW THAT THE GARVEY LOST HIS KNIGHTHOOD. THESE THINGS...
|
| 00:52:07 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
PARANOID ATTACK DOGS OR WHATEVER, THAT THERE IS NO EVIDENTIAL BASIS FOR IT, OR WERE THEY ACTING WITHOUT YOUR REPORTER FOR INSTRUCTIONS? >> YOU HAVE SPECIAL...
|
| 00:52:27 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE MINISTER AND POLICY. YOU HAVE COMPETITION BETWEEN SPECIAL ADVISERS AND DIFFERENT DEPARTMENTS BECAUSE THAT IS THE NATURE OF POLITICS. UNFORTUNATELY,...
|
| 00:53:52 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AT THE POLITICAL CLASS. ARE THERE ANY LESSONS TO BE LEARNED AT ALL, IF ONE LOOKS FROM 1997 THROUGH 2010, 13- YEARS PERIOD, ABOUT THE CULTURE OF THE POLITICAL...
|
| 00:54:17 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CHANGED THE LAW THE SYSTEM, CHANGED THE SYSTEM SO THAT PEOPLE RELIED ON EXCLUSIVE BRIEFINGS AND HOW TO HAVE FORMER OPEN TRANSPARENT SYSTEMS OF ADDRESSING...
|
| 00:56:40 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
COMMUNICATIONS, WHO WAS A CIVIL SERVANT. THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT WILL HAVE TO BE RESOLVED ONE DAY.
|
| 00:56:45 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WE HAVE POLITICAL APPOINTEES AND YOU CANNOT SAY THAT IT HAS WORKED IN ITS ENTIRETY. CIVIL SERVANT APPOINTEES HAVE NOT BEEN WHOLLY SATISFACTORY BECAUSE...
|
| 00:57:28 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BRIEFING, THE LOBBY.
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| 00:57:32 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THIS WILL BE UNPOPULAR TO PEOPLE IN THE GALLERY OR IN THE LOBBY, THAT YOU WOULD HAVE SOMEONE BRIEFING WITH A TELEVISION CAMERA THERE, BUT WOULD BE COMPLETELY...
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| 00:59:34 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THIS EVIDENCE. YOU SAY YOU RECALL TELLING MR. WATTS AND THAT THE GOVERNMENT HAD BEEN UNDER PRESSURE FROM NEWS INTERNATIONAL TO SACK HIM. ARE WE BACK...
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| 00:59:57 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WATSON HAD PHONED ME, HAD ASKED ME WHAT WAS HAPPENING. IRIS REMINDED ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN THE PAST. I AM NOT GIVING YOU INFORMATION, AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED,...
|
| 01:00:37 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THAT RELATE TO EARLIER EVENTS OR DID IT RELATE TO PHONE HACKING? CAN YOU REMEMBER? >> NEWS INTERNATIONAL HAD TAKEN THE VIEW THAT, WATSON WAS TO BE...
|
| 01:00:52 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IN 2006. THIS WAS STILL THE LINE THAT IT WANTED TO PURSUE. I DO NOT WANT TO GET INVOLVED IN THIS BECAUSE I DID NOT UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED....
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| 01:01:34 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
I DO NOT KNOW. ALL I REPORTED TO HIM WAS THAT NEWS INTERNATIONAL HAD MADE IT CLEAR THAT THEY DID NOT
|
| 01:01:45 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
LIKENED. I THINK THEY HAD EDITORIALS SAYING THAT OFTEN HAD TO GO. I DO NOT REMEMBER THE DETAILS. >> CAN YOU REMEMBER WITH THE TEXT SAID? >> THEY ARE...
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| 01:02:03 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IS ALL I REMEMBER, AND I HAVE NOT ASK FOR THEM TO BE DISCLOSED, BUT I THINK IT COMMUNICATED THE FEELING OF MR. WATSON. THAT IS IT. >> HAVING ASK YOU...
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| 01:02:28 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IN SCOTLAND BEFORE HIS RESIGNATION. DID YOU DISCUSS ANY POLITICAL MATTERS AT ALL WITH HIM ON THAT OCCASION? >> NO, OUR BABY HAD JUST BEEN BORN. HE WAS...
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| 01:02:45 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IF I HAD KNOWN THAT HE WAS PLANNING ANY POLITICAL INITIATIVE, I WOULD TOLD NOT TO DO IT, BUT I KNEW NOTHING ABOUT IT. >> THE FOLLOWING QUESTION WAS DID...
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| 01:03:01 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
I THINK I'VE ALREADY ANSWERED THAT. IF I HAD KNOWN THAT HE WAS PLANNING ANYTHING, I WOULD HAVE TOLD THEM TO DESIST. I TOLD HIM ONCE
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| 01:03:10 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
I FOUND OUT ABOUT IT, BUT I DID NOT FIND OUT FROM A CONVERSATION WITH HIM. >> SO YOU SAY THIS IS ENTIRELY A SOCIAL CALL TO DELIVER A PRESENT TO YOUR BABY?...
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| 01:03:24 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
HIS FAMILY WITH HIM. THEY WERE TALKING
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| 01:03:28 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TO SARAH, TALKING -- WE WERE ALL TALKING ABOUT OUR CHILDREN >>. MR. BROWN, YOU HAVE CALLED FOR A JUDICIAL INQUIRY IN SEPTEMBER 2010. YOU WROTE A LETTER...
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| 01:04:03 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
YES, AND THE REPORT BEING DONE BY THE MEDIA COMMITTEE, PROMPTING ABOUT WHETHER SOMETHING
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| 01:04:12 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
HAD TO BE DONE. WE DID NOT KNOW, AS I SAID IN MY SPEECH, ABOUT THE EXTENT OF THIS PHONE HACKING. ONLY GRADUALLY BECAME KNOWN TO ME THAT IT COULD BE CONSIDERABLY...
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| 01:05:52 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
REVIEW IS ON THE MATTER BY THE METROPOLITAN POLICE AND SUBJECT TO AN INQUIRY. >> YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THE SECOND LETTER. MY FIRST REQUEST WAS BEFORE...
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| 01:06:06 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ANSWERED WITH A MEMO THAT YOU HAVE GOT ABOUT TODAY'S PROS AND CONS ABOUT TAKING ACTION. IT WAS AT THAT POINT THAT WE MIGHT HAVE LOOKED AT THE OTHER EVIDENCE...
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| 01:06:38 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
LOOKING AT THE MARCH 2010 CONSIDERATION. WE KNOW THAT MR. MILLER BAND WAS NOT SELECTED THE OPPOSITION LEADER UNTIL SEPTEMBER. DID YOU DISCUSS THESE ISSUES...
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| 01:07:01 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THAT YOU NEEDED TO. DID YOU DISCUSS YOUR CONCERNS ABOUT THE ISSUE WITH MR.
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| 01:07:08 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
MILLIBAND? >> I HAVE EXPRESSED MY CONCERN TO A NUMBER OF PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED, BUT I CANNOT REMEMBER A SPECIFIC CONVERSATION. PERHAPS THERE WAS,...
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| 01:07:19 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WAS NOT. I DO REMEMBER SPEAKING TO MR. CLAYTOR AT ONE POINT. >> MAYBE LOOK TO THE FUTURE NOW AND RECOMMENDATIONS? WE KNOW WHAT YOU SAID IN 2007. WE
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| 01:07:36 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
HAVE SEEN THE EXURBS OF THAT SPEECH, WHICH YOU CAN PROVIDED US WITH. YOUR WITNESS STATEMENTS ON PAGE 14212, YOU SET OUT IDEAS FOR THE FUTURE. ON THE INTERNAL...
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| 01:08:29 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
MIGHT HAVE AND, INDEED, THE WAY FURTHER REGULATION MAY GO. I THINK THERE IS THE ISSUE OF DEALING WITH WRONGS THAT HAVE TO BE RIGHTED, ADDRESSED FOR INDIVIDUALS...
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| 01:10:40 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IF YOU CAN ANSWER THAT QUESTION, EVEN WITH SOME IDEAS, I WOULD BE VERY INTERESTED TO HEAR THEM. >> I HAVE TRIED TO GIVE SOME THOUGHT TO THIS, BUT WHEN...
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| 01:10:56 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
FEE, IT WAS CLEAR THERE WAS A MARKET FAILURE. IN OTHER WORDS, THE FINANCE THAT WAS AVAILABLE FOR SUPPORT AND QUALITY BROADCAST JOURNALISM, QUALITY CONTENT,...
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| 01:14:15 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
EVIDENCE, THAT LOCAL JOURNALISM IS VERY MUCH SUFFERING FROM A LACK OF ADVERTISING, AND THE CONSTANT IS, LOCAL ISSUES THEREFORE ARE NOT REPORTED AS THEY...
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| 01:15:06 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SHINING A LIGHT ON POTENTIAL CORRUPTION OR MALADMINISTRATION, ABUSE OF POWER, WHICH IS TRUE THAT THE LOCAL LEVEL AND NATIONAL LEVEL, PEOPLE GET AWAY WITH...
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| 01:15:50 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OF LOCAL AUTHORITIES, NEWSPAPERS, WHICH THEN DEPRIVE THE INDEPENDENT JOURNALISTS AN OPPORTUNITY TO DEVELOP THEIR PRODUCT. >> MORE OF A DEBATE ABOUT WHETHER...
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| 01:16:12 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
INTEGRATION OF LOCAL RADIO AND BROADCASTING AND ALL THAT SHOULD HAPPEN. IT IS CLEAR TO ME, HOWEVER, WITHOUT SOME UNDERPINNING -- INTO MAY BE FINANCIAL...
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| 01:18:18 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IS QUITE A LOT TO LEARN FROM AMERICA WERE THIS IS ALIVE TODAY.
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| 01:18:25 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SORRY, I MOVED FROM YOUR INITIAL POINT OF THE SELF REGULATION. >> NOT AT ALL. THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE PRESS AND POLITICIANS SEEM TO BE NEEDED TO...
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| 01:18:36 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WHAT, IF ANYTHING, WOULD YOU RECOMMEND IN THAT REGARD? >> GREATER OPENNESS AND TRANSPARENCY. I WOULD JUST REPEAT THAT. I DO NOT THINK -- I DO WANT AND...
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| 01:18:49 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
QUESTION ABOUT REGULATION BECAUSE IT IS IMPORTANT. I HAVE NEVER BEEN ONE -- AND THIS MIGHT BE SURPRISING TO PEOPLE DESPITE MY DISCOMFORT WITH THE PRESS...
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| 01:20:56 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
MR. BROWN, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. IT IS ALL MUCH EASIER TO SAY AND MUCH MORE DIFFICULT TO ACHIEVE. >> I DO NOT ENVY YOUR JOB, BUT I
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| 01:21:05 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
KNOW YOU ARE DOING A GREAT JOB. >> ONE MOMENT, MR. BROWN. >> [INAUDIBLE]
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| 01:21:11 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THERE WAS EVIDENCE GIVEN ABOUT THAT. MR. BROWN HAS NOT ADDRESSED THAT. I THINK HE OUGHT TO BE GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY -- AT LEAST WE WOULD LIKE TO KNOW...
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| 01:21:40 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE
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| 01:21:46 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
POSITION IS, MR. BROWN, THE SYSTEM PERMITS FOR PARTICIPANTS TO PUT QUESTIONS THROUGH COUNSEL. MR. JAY HAS SAID SEVERAL TIMES, I HAVE BEEN ASKED TO ASK...
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| 01:22:25 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
INTERNATIONAL. I THINK YOU'RE PROBABLY FAMILIAR WITH THE SPIRIT IS BEHIND TAB 8
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| 01:22:31 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OF YOUR BUNDLE. THAT IS A TRANSCRIPT OF THE EVIDENCE THAT LORD MENDELSSOHN GAVE. >> WHAT DAY IS THAT REFERRING TO? >> DAY 74. >>
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| 01:22:53 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WHAT DAY IS MR. MENDELSON REFERRING TO? >> HE WAS ASKED ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THERE WAS A CALL BETWEEN MR. MURDOCH AND YOU SHORTLY AFTER THE SUN HAD...
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| 01:23:07 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
LABOR PARTY ON THE 30TH OF SEPTEMBER 2009. THIS IS DAY 74. IN THE AFTERNOON. >> I FIND THIS VERY DIFFICULT TO READ BECAUSE OF THE LIGHT TYPE. PERHAPS...
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| 01:23:28 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE ALLEGATION IS, RATHER, THE APPELLATE -- EVIDENCE WAS FOR MR. MURDOCH THAT MR. BROWN OF THE WORDS DECLARE WAR ON NEWS INTERNATIONAL, OR WORDS TO...
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| 01:23:39 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
EFFECT. FROM YOUR OWN KNOWLEDGE, CAN YOU ASSIST US WHETHER THERE WAS SUCH A CALL? CANCER -- I WAS NOT ON THE CALL, I HAVE NOT BEEN PATCHED INTO THE CALL....
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| 01:24:14 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THAT. HE TOLD ME WHAT MR. BARAKAT SAID TO HIM. QUESTION -- SO THERE WAS NOTHING ABOUT WHAT MR. BROWN SAID TO MR. MURDOCH? IS THAT YOUR EVIDENCE?...
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| 01:25:11 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ARE AFFIDAVITS FROM PEOPLE WHO WERE ON THAT CALL, FOUR ON THE CALL, ONE THAT HAD TO REPORT TO THE PRESS WHAT HAPPENED AFTER. THEY MADE IT ABSOLUTELY...
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| 01:26:45 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
READ TO YOU? >> I DO NOT REMEMBER A CONVERSATION ABOUT THIS TO SPECIFICALLY, BUT IF THE CONVERSATION TOOK PLACE, IT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED ON NOVEMBER
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| 01:26:55 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
10. IT WAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SUPPORT OF THE CONSERVATIVE PARTY. IT WAS ABOUT SUPPORT FOR AFGHANISTAN. THERE WAS NO CALL ON SEPTEMBER 30. YOU ARE ALLOW...
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NOTE: The transcript for this program was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.