| 00:00:04 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BACK TO THE PROGRAM MICHAEL SCHEUER. WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT THESE DOCUMENTS RELEASED
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| 00:00:11 |
HOST, -
LAST WEEK. THIS IS HOW IT IS PLAYING OUT IN A COUPLE OF NEWSPAPERS. GUEST: THEY WILL USE THIS AS A FORUM TO SHOW THE AMERICAN JUSTICE IS BIASED TOWARD...
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| 00:01:06 |
GUEST, -
EPISODES OF SILENCE AND EPISODES OF UNFORTUNATELY PROBABLY AN ELEGANT ARABIC TO TALK TO THE MOSLEM WORLD ABOUT THE PROBLEMS WITH AMERICAN JUSTICE. I...
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| 00:01:54 |
HOST, -
THE MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY AND CHUCK SCHUMER. WOULD THAT HAVE CHANGED ANYTHING? GUEST: IT WOULD HAVE MADE IT WORSE. IN A FEDERAL COURT, IT WOULD HAVE...
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| 00:02:07 |
GUEST, -
MUSLIM SUPPORTERS OUTSIDE AND OPPONENTS OUTSIDE AND THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN A DESTRUCTIVE CROWD INSIDE. THE SAY THIS THING FOR AMERICA WOULD HAVE BEEN...
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| 00:02:32 |
HOST, -
YES, THERE WAS THE POSSIBILITY THAT ONE
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| 00:02:40 |
GUEST, -
IN DETAINEE WAS GOING TO COMMIT SUICIDE BUT HE SAID WOULD NOT, HE SAID THE AMERICANS WOULD KILL HIM FIRST. THEY ARE TRAINED TO FIGHT THE JIHAD ON THE...
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| 00:03:03 |
HOST, -
THROUGH HIS EARLY CAREER AND 9/11, WAS A RACONTEUR, A COSMOPOLITAN GUY AND SOMEONE WHO IS
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| 00:03:11 |
GUEST, -
ANYTHING WHAT WE THINK OF AS A GOOD MOSLEM. HE WAS A TRAVELER AND DRINKER AND A WOMANIZER. HE SEEMS TO HAVE FOUND THE STRAIGHT AND NARROW IN PRISON....
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| 00:03:29 |
HOST, -
THE CONVERSATION ON OUR TWITTER PAGE OR SEND US AN E-MAIL. LET'S GO TO THESE DOCUMENTS. THESE ARE THE WRITINGS OF OSAMA BIN LADEN FOUND FROM WESTERN OFFICIALS...
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| 00:04:08 |
GUEST, -
CHANGING OUR POLICY IN THE MIDDLE EAST. THERE WERE VERY EAGER TO GET RID OF HIM. UNTIL A SOMEWHAT DIED, BUT BACKED OFF A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE WORDS WERE...
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| 00:04:38 |
GUEST, -
6000. THERE ARE ONLY FOUR IN THE PACKAGE OF 17 THAT WERE WRITTEN BY OSAMA BIN LADEN. WHEN YOU READ THOSE DOCUMENTS, YOU COME AWAY WITH THE IDEA OF THERE...
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| 00:05:42 |
HOST, -
WHAT IS HE REFERRING TO? GUEST: HE IS REFERRING TO WHAT THEY CALL THE CALIPHATE, THIS -- THE ONE ISLAMIC ENTITY THAT WOULD
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| 00:06:07 |
GUEST, -
NOT HAVE BORDERS. IT IS ONE GROUP OF MUSLIMS AND THAT HAS TO START FROM SOMEWHERE. IT HAS TO START FROM A GEOGRAPHICAL POSITION. THEY VIEWED AFGHANISTAN...
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| 00:07:00 |
HOST, -
WHAT KIND OF CHARISMA DID OSAMA BIN LADEN HAVE TO MOTIVATE THESE INDIVIDUALS? THERE ARE THOSE WHO REMAINED IN GUANTANAMO FOR THE LAST 10 YEARS. GUEST:BIN...
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| 00:09:15 |
HOST, -
HE IS CONSCIOUS OF GETTING THE TROOPS OUT FOR HIMSELF. GUEST: EVERYBODY PUT WORDS INTO BIN LADEN'S MOUTH AND AL-QAIDA'S MOUTH THAT THIS IS THE END FOR...
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| 00:10:25 |
GUEST, -
UP AND OVERTHROWING THEIR GOVERNMENT. WHAT'S VERY CLEAR IN THESE DOCUMENTS IS EVERY JOURNALIST IN "THE WASHINGTON POST" FROM "THE NEW YORK TIMES"...
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| 00:11:02 |
HOST, -
FOR MICHAEL SCHEUER FORMERLY OF THE C.I.A. AND HEAD OF THE BIN LADEN UNIT. GOOD
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| 00:11:06 |
HOST, -
MORNING. CALLER: GOOD MORNING. THANKS FOR TAKING MY CALL. THANK GOODNESS FOR C-SPAN. MY COMMENT IS BASICALLY THIS. I'M EX-MILITARY AND
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| 00:11:14 |
CALLER, -
SINCE WORLD WAR II WHICH THIS COUNTRY WON IN LESS THAN 2 1/2 YEARS, WE HAVEN'T WAGED ALL OUT WAR. WE DIDN'T DO IT IN KOREA. WE PIDDLED AROUND IN NAM...
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| 00:12:15 |
GUEST, -
AND DIVERSITY PEOPLE THAT THINK ALL PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD ARE THE SAME. IN THE MUSLIM WORLD, FORCE IS A LIBERAL FRANCA. THE WEAK ARE TAKEN ADVANTAGE...
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| 00:13:45 |
HOST, -
THOSE PLANES HIT, BIN LADEN AND AL-QAIDA WAS BEHIND IT AT 9/11? >> IT WAS IMMEDIATELY APPARENT, SIR, IT WASN'T A SURPRISE. IT WAS ONLY WITHIN THE SENIOR...
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| 00:13:56 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TO DO IT. WE KNEW -- WE CAPTURED COMPUTER IN 1995 EARLY IN 1995 FROM THE FELLOW WHO BOMBED THE WORLD TRADE CENTER THE FIRST TIME IN 1993 AND IN THERE...
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| 00:14:30 |
HOST, -
I RESPECT THIS MAN TREMENDOUSLY. GUEST: VERY KIND, SIR. THANK YOU. CALLER:
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| 00:14:34 |
CALLER, -
YOU DON'T PULL ANY PUNCHES WHICH IS GREAT. MR. SCHEUER, I GOT ONE QUESTION FOR YOU, WHO DO YOU THINK IS PROBABLY
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| 00:14:42 |
CALLER, -
THE MOST DANGEROUS POLITICIAN, REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT THAT WE'VE HAD IN THE LAST 30 YEARS THAT HAS HELPED EXPEDITE THE THING WITH THE TERRORISM AND...
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| 00:15:09 |
GUEST, -
PARTIES IN TERMS OF FOREIGN POLICY. THEY HAVE MADE IT THEIR BUSINESS TO LIE TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO INSIST THAT SOMEHOW WE'RE BEING ATTACKED BECAUSE...
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| 00:16:17 |
HOST, -
ON TERROR" AND "FROM PANDORA'S BOX" WE ARE DISCUSSING 17 LETTERS FOUND BY THE GOVERNMENT BUT WRITTEN BY BIN LADEN FROM SEPTEMBER OF 2006 UNTIL JUST...
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| 00:16:46 |
CALLER, -
LEANING TOWER" WHICH IS AN EXCELLENT READ BY LAWRENCE WRIGHT. I JUST WANT TO SAY REAL QUICK COMMENT AND THE FACT THAT JAMES FROM ILLINOIS SAID...
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| 00:17:33 |
GUEST, -
MILITARY AND FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE GENERALLY IS THAT THEIR LEADERS FROM BOTH PARTIES ARE OUT IN THE MUSLIM WORLD CAUSING WARS. NO ONE HAS BEEN...
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| 00:19:05 |
GUEST, -
THERE. MR. BUSH DIDN'T INTEND TO WIN THE WAR THERE BECAUSE IT WAS TOO BLOODY OF A THING TO DO. WE'RE CUTTING AND RUNNING. WE'RE GOING TO GIVE THE...
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| 00:19:59 |
HOST, -
FOR OUR ENEMIES AND SO MR. BUSH -- I THINK YOU HAVE TO
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| 00:20:04 |
GUEST, -
ASSIGN THAT RESPONSIBILITY TO MR. BUSH BUT FOLLOWED FOR A LONG WHILE BY MR. OBAMA. MR. BUSH WOULD SAY THEY'RE RUNNING FROM ROCK TO ROCK AND CAVE...
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| 00:21:07 |
HOST, -
SYLVAN. HOST: RIGHT. CALLER: I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH YOUR GUEST THERE. THE WORLD DOESN'T REALLY FEAR
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| 00:21:13 |
CALLER, -
US ANYMORE IS ONE PROBLEM RIGHT THERE DUE TO OUR RULES
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| 00:21:16 |
CALLER, -
OF ENGAGEMENT AND ALL THIS KIND OF BUNK. BUT THEY ALSO -- THE MUSLIM WORLD, EVERYTHING THAT WE DO OVER HERE IS STRICTLY AGAINST THE QURAN. AND TO THEM,...
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| 00:21:44 |
GUEST, -
AND LET THEM DO WHAT THEY WANT TO DO. I WOULD ASK YOU THAT WHY THE UNITED STATES HASN'T BEEN UNDER CONSTANT ATTACK SINCE 1776 BY MUSLIMS BECAUSE WE...
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| 00:22:33 |
HOST, -
WITH DRONES AND APOLOGIES. GUEST: I THINK THAT'S -- I DON'T THINK THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PRESIDENT BUSH AND PRESIDENT OBAMA IN TERMS OF...
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| 00:22:48 |
GUEST, -
WORDS. BIN LADEN, WHEN HE WAS ALIVE WAS ALWAYS MORE WORRIED ABOUT DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTS BECAUSE THEY SPOKE MORE SOFTLY THAN REPUBLICANS. THEY WEREN'T...
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| 00:23:39 |
HOST, -
ASSISTANCE. GUEST: WE DID. I THINK ANOTHER FAILURE OF BOTH PARTIES OF OUR POLITICAL LEADERSHIP AND IT'S IN A CONGRESS THAT'S EXECUTIVE, AND IT'S IN...
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| 00:23:48 |
GUEST, -
IS TO BELIEVE THAT EVERY NATION'S FOREIGN POLICY AND NATIONAL INTERESTS ARE THE SAME AS OURS. IT WAS NEVER IN PAKISTAN'S INTEREST TO TURN USAMA BIN...
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| 00:25:02 |
HOST, -
SHOW HOSTS. I'M WONDERING IN A MORE SERIOUS VENUE WHAT YOU THINK HE'S THINKING AS HE'S MONITORING CNN AND OTHER CABLE NETWORKS IN AN ENCLOSED ROOM...
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| 00:25:21 |
GUEST, -
OF THE FACT THAT HE WAS NOT THE BEST
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| 00:25:23 |
HOST, -
EDUCATED PERSON IN THE
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| 00:25:25 |
GUEST, -
WORLD. ESPECIALLY IN TERMS OF RELIGIOUS THEORIES AND IN GRAMMAR. HE WAS INTENT IN APPEARING TO MUSLIMS AS A VERY WELL SPOKEN AND VERY PRESENTABLE...
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| 00:26:49 |
CALLER, -
DON'T SAY THEY'RE WRONG. BUT IF WE'RE THE AUTOCRATS OVER THERE ON THE HOLY LAND, THESE GUYS ARE MOVING TO THE WESTERN COUNTRIES LIKE ENGLAND WHERE...
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| 00:27:58 |
GUEST, -
WORLD WHETHER IT'S THEIR ALLIES THAT CERTAINLY UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA THE INTENTION TO APPLY WESTERN VALUES OR PAGANISM AND PUT YOUR VIEW ON THE MUSLIM...
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| 00:29:32 |
HOST, -
IMPORTANT EVENTS THAT THE NATION HAS WITNESSED FOR CENTURIES. IT IS KNOWN THAT COMPREHENSIVE POPULAR MOVEMENTS INEVITABLY CHANGE THE CONDITIONS SO...
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| 00:30:02 |
GUEST, -
WE TALKED AT THE BEGINNING OF THE SHOW, SIR, THAT ONE OF THEIR GOALS WAS TO GET RID OF THE ARAB TYRANNIES TO CLEAR THE WAY FOR ISLAM TO BECOME THE...
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| 00:31:20 |
HOST, -
GOOD EVIDENCE OF WHY HE HAD TO BE
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| 00:31:24 |
GUEST, -
KILLED. BIN LADEN WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN EITHER AGGRESSIVE OR PASSIVE. HE WOULD HAVE BEEN QUIET BUT ELOQUENT IN A COURTROOM AND WOULD HAVE TALKED TO...
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| 00:32:00 |
HOST, -
DON'T RELEASE HIM. WE CAN SIT DOWN EVERY EVENING ON TV AND THERE CAN'T BE ANYTHING MORE GORY THAN WHAT WE SEE
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| 00:32:06 |
GUEST, -
ON TV OF THE PICTURES OF BIN LADEN. IDEA THAT THEY DIDN'T WANT TO INFLAME THE MUSLIM WORLD, WELL, WORSE THAN THE PICTURES WAS BURYING BIN LADEN AT...
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| 00:32:30 |
HOST, -
SHOW. I HAD A FEW POINTS I'D LIKE
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| 00:32:34 |
CALLER, -
TO MAKE. I CONSIDER THE ANNOUNCEMENT OF BIN LADEN'S DEATH MORE OR LESS A BIG INTELLIGENCE FAILURE. WE WOULD HAVE TRIED FOR AT LEAST A MONTH OR TWO...
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| 00:33:18 |
GUEST, -
DEBATE. MY OWN VIEW IS THAT BIN LADEN WAS OF A NATURE WE WOULD NOT HAVE GOTTEN ANYTHING AND IF WE SPENT TWO MONTHS AND THEN HAD TO TRY THEM IN GUANTANAMO...
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| 00:34:41 |
HOST, -
BEEN BIN LADEN AND COULD HAVE BEEN SOMEBODY ELSE. WHEN ASKED ABOUT AL-QAIDA, WE THOUGHT IT WAS INTERESTING TO SHARE WITH YOU AND OUR AUDIENCE AS PART...
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| 00:35:14 |
GUEST, -
IS AL-QAIDA, THE BASE OF JIHAD AND THE SHORT PARLANCE OF NEWSPAPERS AND THE PRESS, IT'S CALLED AL-QAIDA WHICH LEAVES OUT THE UNIVERSAL PART OF IT, THE...
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| 00:36:30 |
HOST, -
PROGRAM. I'M FORMER OFFICER FROM
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| 00:36:34 |
CALLER, -
IRANIAN ARMY. I HAVE A QUESTION AS TOLD US, WE HAVE ISLAM AND ISLAMS. I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT THE OLD SOURCES. WE HEAR MANY THINGS ABOUT AL-QAIDA...
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| 00:37:42 |
GUEST, -
IN NEFARIOUS ACTIVITIES AND IRANIAN DEFENSE ACTIVITIES AROUND THE WORLD. I THINK, YOU KNOW, ULTIMATELY, WE'LL BE GOING TO WAR WITH IRAN IF THE ISRAELIS...
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| 00:38:18 |
HOST, -
THIS IMPLY ABOUT U.S. POLICY? GUEST: CERTAINLY, BIN LADEN COMES RIGHT OUT IN THE DOCUMENTS AND SAYS WE CAN NEVER TRUST THE IRANIANS BUT
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| 00:38:28 |
GUEST, -
THERE'S OBVIOUSLY DISCUSSIONS GOING ON BETWEEN IRAN AND AL-QAIDA OVER THE FATE OF BIN LADEN'S FAMILY WHICH WAS HELD IN IRAN. WHAT IT SAYS ABOUT...
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| 00:39:32 |
HOST, -
C-SPAN IS THE FIRST WIFE AND THE FOURTH SON ABLE TO TESTIFY, JOURNALISTS WHO WROTE THEIR STORY OF LEAVING BIN LADEN, THEY LEFT BEFORE 9/11. GUEST:...
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| 00:39:51 |
GUEST, -
I USED EXTENSIVELY IN MY BIOGRAPHY OF USAMA BIN LADEN AND VERY, VERY INTERESTING FIRST-HAND TESTIMONY. ANOTHER PIECE OF EVIDENCE IF PEOPLE OF THE UNITED...
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| 00:40:48 |
HOST, -
C-SPAN THAT I'VE BEEN LISTENING FOR
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| 00:40:51 |
CALLER, -
QUITE A FEW YEARS SINCE 9/11 HAS ANY IDEA OF WHAT'S GOING ON. NORMALLY YOU HAVE THE SAME OLD BEAT UP, BEAT DOWN POLITICIANS AND THE ARMY GENERAL SPEAKING...
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| 00:42:07 |
GUEST, -
TO TWIST WHAT AND EXCERPT AND CUT WHAT BIN LADEN WAS SAYING, YOU KNOW, YOU WOULD PROBABLY HAD TO TUNE INTO AL JAZEERA OR SOMEWHERE ELSE TO GET THE...
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| 00:43:28 |
HOST, -
11TH. HOST: GIVE YOU A SENSE OF WHAT HE WAS THINKING OF. GUEST: WHEN YOU READ THESE LETTERS, THEY'RE CONSCIOUS OF MEDIA AND APPEALING
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| 00:44:00 |
HOST, -
TO THE NEXT GENERATION OF YOUNG MUSLIMS.
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| 00:44:02 |
GUEST, -
AS WE TALKED ABOUT WHEN WE LOOKED AT THE LITTLE VIDEO OF BIN LADEN WATCHING HIMSELF, ORAL COMMUNICATION IS EXTRAORDINARILY IMPORTANT IN THE MUSLIM WORLD...
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| 00:44:23 |
GUEST, -
GO. ESPECIALLY THE ONES WRITTEN BY BIN LADEN BECAUSE THEY DISPROVE VIRTUALLY EVERYTHING, PRESIDENT OBAMA OR JOHN BRENNAN OR SENATOR MCCAIN OR LINDSAY...
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| 00:45:08 |
HOST, -
OF USAMA BIN LADEN" BY OXFORD PRESS AND
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| 00:45:11 |
GUEST, -
THAT CAME OUT IN A PAPERBACK. NEXT YEAR, I'LL HAVE A BOOK ABOUT FOUNDING FATHERS AND NONINTERVENTION AND OUR FAILURE TO ABIDE THEIR GUIDANCE ON NONINTERVENTION...
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| 00:45:32 |
HOST, -
MY PLEASURE, SIR, ALWAYS. HOST: PLEASE COME BACK AGAIN. COMING UP IN A COUPLE OF MINUTES, WE'LL TURN OUR ATTENTION TO A NEW STUDY CONDUCTED BY HARVARD...
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| 00:45:41 |
HOST, -
VOTE IN CAMPAIGN 2012. TREY GRAYSON, A KENTUCKY POLITICIAN, NOW THE HEAD OF THE HARVARD INSTITUTE OF POLITICS IS GOING TO BE JOINING US AND LATER,
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NOTE: The transcript for this program was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.