| 00:00:48 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
LINCOLN'S INAUGURAL MARCH 4 OF 1861. I WILL GIVE YOU BACKGROUND AND I WANT YOUR THOUGHTS ON IT. LINCOLN, IN MY VIEW IS THE NATION'S GREATEST LITERARY...
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| 00:04:35 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WERE RATIFIED. SOUTH CAROLINA ANNOUNCES ITS SECESSION CONVENTION THE DAY AFTER THE ELECTION STARTS IN
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| 00:04:42 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
NOVEMBER. AFTER THEY ANNOUNCE IT THEY DRAFT THE ORDINANCE OF SECESSION. ACTUALLY THE ORDINANCE OF SECESSION IS GENERALLY DISTINCT FROM THE DECLARATION...
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| 00:06:10 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WE'RE NOT ENEMIES. WE'RE FRIENDS, BUDDIES. AT THE SAME TIME HE'S TRYING TO MAKE AN ARGUMENT WHICH IS A DIFFICULT ARGUMENT TO MAKE. THE PRESERVATION...
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| 00:07:34 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THAT THE UNION WAS PERPETUAL WAS UP FOR WIDE DEBATE, NOT JUST AMONG THE SECESSIONIST SOUTHERNERS. ONE OF LINCOLN'S PRIMARY GOALS IS TO MAKE THE CASE...
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| 00:08:09 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TEXT I THOUGHT HE WAS VERY MUCH CONCERNED WITH NOT SO MUCH THE STATES THAT HAD ALREADY LEFT THE UNION BUT THE BORDER STATES THAT MIGHT BE CONSIDERING...
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| 00:08:32 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OF ALMOST PREPARING HIMSELF FOR WHATEVER WAS GOING TO COME NEXT GIVEN THE STATES THAT WOULD SECEDE. >> THAT'S RIGHT. A VERY GOOD POINT. ONE OF HIS...
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| 00:08:46 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SEVEN STATES WHO HAVE ALREADY SECEDED. IF THE BORDER SLAVE STATES SECEDE, WASHINGTON, D.C. IS SURROUNDED. IF MARYLAND AND VIRGINIA SURRENDER ESSENTIALLY...
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| 00:17:01 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WOULD THAT HAVE BEEN FAMILIAR TO HIS AUDIENCE? >> YES. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN FAMILIAR. WHAT JACKSON DOES DURING THE NULLIFICATION CRISIS, JACKSON IS...
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| 00:17:10 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
HE'S OUTRAGED THAT SOUTH CAROLINA AND JOHN C. CALHOUN ARE GOING AGAINST HIM. JACKSON LOVED NOTHING MORE THAN A FIGHT. AFTER THEY THREATEN TO NULLIFY...
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| 00:18:22 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OF NOWHERE. >> THAT'S A VERY GOOD POINT. THANK
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| 00:18:31 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
YOU. THE NOTION THAT THE UNION IS A REVOCABLE CONTRACT, A TREATY OR LEAGUE IS ACKNOWLEDGED BY TWO OF THE NATION'S GREAT FEDERALISTS. JUSTICE JOSEPH...
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| 00:24:24 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
RIGHTS TO SAY WHETHER OR NOT THEY WOULD -- LIKE SLAVERY WOULD BE LEGAL? >> YES. >> BUT HE SAID HE WOULD PRESERVE THE UNION WHETHER THAT MEANT FREEING...
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| 00:24:39 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IN AUGUST OF '62, LATER. >> DID HE HAVE HIS OPINION NOW OR WAS
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| 00:24:45 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
HE SAYING THIS TO APPEASE THE BORDER STATES? >> HE'S CLEARLY WANTING TO APPEASE THE UPPER
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| 00:24:51 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SOUTH. AND APPEASE THE SOUTH MORE GENERALLY. HE'S CLEARLY -- YOU KNOW, THAT'S
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| 00:24:56 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WHY HE VOWS NOT TO INTERFERE WITH SLAVERY IN THE SLAVE STATES. BUT HE GOES FURTHER THAN TO SAY, I BELIEVE I DON'T HAVE A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO INTERFERE...
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| 00:26:32 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TWO DAYS LATER PEOPLE LIVING IN
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| 00:26:35 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CITIES WOULD HAVE KNOWN ABOUT IT. IT WAS JUST BEGINNING TO SPREAD. IT WAS OBVIOUSLY NEVER RATIFIED. BUT IT WASN'T EVERYWHERE KNOWN WHICH IS WHY LINCOLN...
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| 00:26:59 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
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| 00:27:13 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
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| 00:27:34 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BE. >> I WAS WONDERING ABOUT THE POLITICAL PRESSURE. HE'S PLAYING TO THE MIDDLE OF
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| 00:27:48 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AMERICA. >> YES. >> ESPECIALLY IN SUPPORTING THIS. YOU KNOW, RIGHT AFTER HE MAKES THE INAUGURAL ADDRESS FREDERICK DOUGLAS
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| 00:27:57 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
COMES OUT AND WRITES THAT. CALLS HIM SLAVE CATCHER BASICALLY. >> YES. >> IF LINCOLN ENDS UP, YOU KNOW, BY THE END OF THE WAR RIDING THE EMANCIPATION...
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| 00:28:12 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AND WHAT IS IT THAT MAKES HIM -- WHAT CAUSES -- >> WE'LL GET TO A LITTLE BIT OF THAT TODAY. TO WHAT DEGREE DO ABOLITIONISTS INFLUENCE LINCOLN. ...
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| 00:28:27 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
KNOW THAT LINCOLN KNEW OF DOUGLAS WHEN THEY MET. DOUGLAS WAS THE FIRST BLACK MAN TO MEET WITH A U.S. PRESIDENT IN TERMS OF EQUALITY OR FIRST BLACK MAN...
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| 00:44:38 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
NATIONAL IDENTITY. DOES THAT HAPPEN ONLY AFTER SECESSION? >> YES. DOUGLAS BECOMES A NATIONAL SPOKESPERSON FOR THE ABOLITIONISTS AND FOR THE NORTH ...
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| 00:44:51 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CIVIL WAR. HE'S ALREADY A HOUSEHOLD NAME ON THE EVE OF THE CIVIL WAR. BUT THE CIVIL WAR MAKES DOUGLAS FAR MORE FAMOUS THAN EVEN BEFORE. IN FACT, IF THE...
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| 00:47:46 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IS PREVENTING ENGLAND FROM GETTING GOODS THAT IT NEEDS IT SEEMS ENGLAND WOULD SEE MORE IN THE UNION THAN THE CONFEDERACY. >> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION....
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| 00:48:05 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
FRIEND TO ENGLAND. WHEN IT EMANCIPATED SLAVERY IN THE WEST INDIES AND THE EMANCIPATION MORE GENERALLY IS WHEN PEOPLE MADE A DECISION THAT WENT AGAINST...
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| 00:48:47 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BUT THEY WERE PROUD OF THAT. AND AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, BY 1860, MOST OF THE NEW WORLD HAD APOLISHED SLAVERY. SLAVERY, IT'S THE WEST'S FIRST BIG BUSINESS....
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| 00:50:00 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WHERE IT MADE SENSE. BECAUSE THE UNION NAVY WAS MUCH STRONGER THAN -- IF THE CONFEDERACY HAD A NAVY THAT WAS EQUAL TO THE CONFEDERACY, OR TO THE...
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| 00:50:29 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IN THE WAR, WHERE THE COLONISTS HAD ALREADY DEMONSTRATED ENOUGH VICTORIES TO KIND OF BE LIKE A SURE THING. AND I FEEL LIKE THE CONFEDERACY NEVER GOT...
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| 00:50:48 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
EFFECTIVE. AND SO HAD ENGLAND RECOGNIZED THE CONFEDERACY, IT WOULD HAVE JUST BLOWN APART THAT BLOCKADE. AND THE COTTON COULD HAVE EASILY BEEN SHIPPED...
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| 00:51:12 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THAT'S RIGHT. THAT'S VERY GOOD. >> UP UNTIL THAT POINT, UP UNTIL ENDING THE FUGITIVE SLAVE LAW, UP UNTIL EMANCIPATION, THERE WAS ALSO THE QUESTION...
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| 00:51:21 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
YES. >> I THINK DOUGLASS
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| 00:51:23 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DECLARES HOW THIS CREATES INEFFICIENCY, WEAK HEARTEDNESS.
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| 00:51:30 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THERE'S ALWAYS THE LINGERING QUESTION OF, IF THE SOUTH WILL COMPROMISE, WE WILL GIVE UP CERTAIN ELEMENTS. AND DOUGLAS SAW WHAT MANY NORTHERNERS WEREN'T...
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| 00:52:27 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WAR AND THAT IS TO WIN THE WAR AND TO PRESERVE THE UNION, YOU HAD TO COMPLETELY VANQUISH THE SOUTH AND IT HAD TO LEAD TO AN UNCONDITIONAL SURRENDER....
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| 00:53:18 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
MILL WHEN HE TALKS ABOUT AMERICA. HE BASICALLY ARGUES, HE'S A LIBERAL, HE SUPPORTS PEOPLE'S RIGHTS, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES INSURRECTION REVOLUTION CAN...
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| 00:54:25 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
LET'S JUMP TO THE -- TO
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| 00:54:27 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE ENGLAND'S DILEMMA. CAUGHT -- THE PEOPLE WHO SUFFERED THE MOST IN ENGLAND WERE THE WORKING CLASS TEXTILES, THE MILL WORKERS. THEY WERE LITERALLY STARVING...
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| 00:58:55 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BEEN THAT MUCH DISCUSSED IN SOUTHERN GOVERNMENT WHICH IS THAT AS MUCH AS THEY DISCUSS STATES RIGHTS AND DEMOCRACY, THERE WERE ELEMENTS OF AN OLIGARCHKY...
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| 00:59:52 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AND THAT IS WHEN LINCOLN ISSUES CONSCRIPTION, IF YOU'RE WEALTHY, YOU CAN GET OUT AS CONSCRIPTION, YOU CAN PAY A SUBSTITUTE, BUT IT WASN'T NEARLY THE...
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| 01:02:33 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AND IT STRUCK ME THAT THAT'S ACTUALLY IN A WAY WHAT LICHINGNCOLN IS DOING IN HIS FIRST INAUGURAL. >> THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT. A GREAT POINT. >> HE'S SEEKING
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| 01:02:42 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OUT A POSITION OF SILENCE AND SORT OF, AND THAT'S IN A WAY, AFTER SUMTER,
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| 01:02:49 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DOUGLASS IS ALSO ABLE TO THEN BE PART OF THE STATUS QUO AS OPPOSED TO FIGHTING AGAINST THE STATUS QUO. >> THAT'S A VERY GOOD POINT. >> THAT POSITION...
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| 01:03:03 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OF POWER AS OPPOSED -- AND PUTS THE SOUTHERNERS, THE CONFEDERACY, IN THE MODE OF THE ACTORS WHO HAVE TO DEFEND THEIR ACTIONS AS POSED TO THOSE WHO...
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| 01:03:24 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
HERE? >> I AGREE WITH THAT POINT ESPECIALLY SINCE THE SOUTH IS SORT OF CHARACTERIZED TRADITIONALLY AS THE HOT-HEADED PEOPLE. >> RIGHT. >>
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| 01:03:35 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AND I THINK MARKS KIND OF -- SORRY. >> THAT WAS THE STEREOTYPE. >> AND I THINK MARKS KIND OF ADDRESSED -- >> YOU'RE A LIVING CONTRADICTION TO IT. >>...
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| 01:03:46 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
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| 01:03:51 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
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| 01:03:54 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
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| 01:03:58 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
LOT OF THE ACTIONS JUST SEEMED VERY MUCH ABOUT THE ACTIONS, THEMSELVES, RATHER THAN THE MOTIVATIONS BEHIND THEM. >> YEAH. I THINK THAT'S A VERY GOOD...
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| 01:04:24 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OF SECESSION, IT WAS MUCH MORE ACTION THAN A LOT OF -- I MEAN, THE THEORIES AND THE DEVELOPMENT EXCEPT FOR SLAVERY KIND OF FOLLOWED SUIT. I MINE, THEY...
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| 01:17:31 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
STILL ALMOST CATEGORIZED AS HEROIC IN HERE AND IN THE OTHER. >> YES. >> WAS
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| 01:17:38 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THERE ANY BENEFIT OR WERE THEY FIGHTING AS SLAVES? OR DID THEY GAIN ANYTHING FROM THIS? >> THAT'S --
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| 01:17:46 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SO THE QUESTION IS, YOUR QUESTION ASSUMES YOU BELIEVE WILLIAM JOHNSON'S ACCOUNT OF FREDERICK DOUGLASS' ACCOUNT. IT'S A GREAT QUESTION. YES. THE...
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| 01:17:56 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
A SLAVE WOULD HAVE ACTUALLY TAKEN UP ARMS FOR THE CONFEDERACY, FOUGHT FOR THEM EVEN THOUGH THE CONFEDERATE -- IT'S ILLEGAL FROM THE CONFEDERACY, PRIMARILY...
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| 01:19:39 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
YEAH, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION. SO YOU'RE GETTING A LITTLE BIT AHEAD OF ME, BUT, SO, IT DEPENDED ON WHO
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| 01:19:48 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
YOUR MASTER WAS. I SHOULD FIRST SAY THE CONFEDERACY FACED A DILEMMA. THAT IS THE CONFEDERACY DID NOT WANT TO INTERFERE WITH THE MASTER/SLAVE RELATIONSHIP....
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NOTE: The transcript for this program was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.