| 00:00:02 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
GOOD EVENING. HELLO EVERYBODY. I WANT TO WELCOME YOU TO OUR PANEL. WE ARE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT ONE OF THE HOTTEST ISSUES IN THE WORLD RIGHT NOW,...
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| 00:01:58 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
VERY MUCH. I CAN SEE A LOT OF YOU GET UP EARLY IN THE MORNING. [LAUGHTER] TO LISTEN TO MORNING EDITION AND WHERE WOULD WE BE WITHOUT MORNING EDITION?...
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| 00:03:56 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WOW. I THINK INDIA AND SOME SENSE, THE IDEA OF DEMOCRACY HAS BECOME MORE IMPORTANT. IT IS A KIND OF -- FOR OVER 60 YEARS. INDIA TRANSFORMED ITSELF VERY...
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| 00:04:53 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TIME IN PAKISTAN. WHERE DID WE GO WRONG WITH THIS EFFORT? >> WELL, I WOULD LIKE TO
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| 00:05:00 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THINK OF THAT CONTRAST, THAT DIVIDING LINE BETWEEN THE TWO DIFFERENT COUNTRIES IN THIS WAY. I THINK ESPECIALLY LISTENING TO SIDDHARTHA REMINDS ME THAT...
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| 00:06:33 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
YOU HAVE BEEN IN THE STATE DEPARTMENT FOR MUCH OF THIS TIME. AND WHAT IF WE LEARNED, AMERICA, BETTER ABILITY TO CONTROL OTHER SOCIETIES TO THIS DISASTROUS...
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| 00:06:50 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
PAKISTAN STARTED OUT AS A CLOSE ALLY OF THE UNITED STATES, BUT FRICTIONS DEVELOPED OVER THE COURSE OF TIME. WHILE THE PAKISTANIS SEEM TO BE MUCH MORE...
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| 00:08:06 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THIS BESETTING PROBLEM IN PAKISTAN PSYCHOLOGICALLY. I THINK IT IS PARANOIA. ESPECIALLY WHERE INDIA IS CONCERNED AND TO AN AMERICAN, THIS SENSE THAT INDIA'S...
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| 00:09:01 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
INDIA BEARS A LITTLE BIT OF ONE OF THEM SHIPPED IN TERMS OF AFGHANISTAN BUT THE FACT IS, WE TALKED ABOUT PAKISTAN. PAKISTAN IS OFTEN DOMINATED BY THE...
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| 00:10:17 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE INDIAN GOVERNMENT ANNOUNCED THAT IT WAS GOING TO END THE EMERGENCY RULING ON KASHMIR, AND MAINLY THEY SAY BECAUSE THINGS HAVE QUIETED DOWN. AND THAT...
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| 00:11:30 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SIDES DID COME FAIRLY CLOSE IN EARLY 2007 TO RESOLVING THE DISPUTE. THE PROBLEM IS THAT THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO GET OVER THE. THE INDIAN POSITION...
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| 00:12:29 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OF THE TWO COUNTRIES. MOST PEOPLE IN PAKISTAN ARE NOT 64 YEARS OLD. [LAUGHTER] HE DOESN'T LOOK 64, DOES HE? ANYWAY, PAKISTAN -- BUT I VERY MUCH ENJOY...
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| 00:14:27 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
UNDERLINE, THAT OUTCOME THAT YOU OUTLINE IS A VERY HOPEFUL TURN AND I HOPE IT GOES IN THAT DIRECTION. THERE ARE FORCES THAT ARE OPPOSED TO PEACE IN...
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| 00:15:14 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WOULD BE AS MEASURED BECAUSE ON THE ONE HAND, THERE ARE SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCES WITH INDIA AND THE SAME IS TRUE OF THE MUMBAI ATTACKS. A GOVERNMENT OFFICIAL...
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| 00:18:10 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
STEVE YOU MENTIONED EARLIER ABOUT THE DEMOGRAPHICS IN PAKISTAN AND WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT THE FALL LINE OF INDIA AND PAKISTAN AND THE KASHMIRI FAULT LINE...
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| 00:18:39 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
COUNTRIES YOU HAVE MASSIVE URBAN GROWTH TAKING PLACE AROUND THE DEVELOPING WORLD THAN I COULD ALMOST HAVE GONE AND DONE THE BOOK ON MUMBAI ALTHOUGH...
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| 00:20:29 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THEN THAT URBANIZATION HAS BEEN THE KEY TO IT INDIA'S TRANSFORMATION AND IT MIGHT BE OFFERING A MODEL TO PAKISTAN IN THAT REGARD? >> I THINK HE HAS...
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| 00:20:40 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ANSWER TO THE FIRST QUESTION. I THINK URBANIZATION DEFINITELY HAS BEEN THE KEY TO ITS TRANSFORMATION. THE MIDDLE CLASSES THANK YOU TO THE TRANSFORMATION....
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| 00:22:28 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ABOUT HOW INDIA HAS BEEN WELCOMED INTO THE RURAL COMMUNITY IN A WAY. IT IS REALLY TAKING A PLACE, BIG PLACE THAT ONE COULD NOT HAVE EXPECTED JUST A...
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| 00:23:05 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SENSE PAKISTAN HAS SOLD ITS SOUL TO THE DEVIL BY SUPPORTING RADICAL ISLAMIC GROUPS TO SERVE ITS OBSESSION WITH INDIA. AFTER 9/11, MOST OF THE GROUPS...
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| 00:24:23 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
FAULT LINE IN THIS REGION IS RELIGION. ONE OF THE IRONIES OF THE MUSLIM WORLD, ESPECIALLY IN PAKISTAN, IS A CIVIL WAR THAT'S BEEN GOING ON BETWEEN THE...
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| 00:25:05 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
COUNTRY? >> YEAH. IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT THAT THE USE THE TERM FAIR, CIVIL WAR BUT THERE ARE WAYS IN WHICH IT MIGHT BE SAID TO APPLY. THERE IS TREMENDOUS...
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| 00:27:46 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
INDIA, WHICH PAKISTAN WAS BORN IN SUCH TRAUMA. THE SEPARATION OF THOSE TWO COUNTRIES WAS BLOODY AND DRAMATIC AND STILL HOVERS OVER THE DESTINY OF EACH...
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| 00:28:10 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AND EVERYONE UP ON THE STAGE PROBABLY KNOWS BUT LET ME MENTION FOR THOSE WHO DON'T, THAT THE FOUNDER OF PAKISTAN THREE DAYS BEFORE THE INDEPENDENCE OF...
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| 00:29:50 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
A SUBSTANTIAL MUSLIM POPULATION. THE RUPTURE BETWEEN THESE COUNTRIES CREATED ONE OF THE LARGEST MUSLIM COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD, PAKISTAN. AND THE SECOND...
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| 00:30:32 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DIVERSE. THIS IS TRUE OF HINDUISM AND ISLAM AND CHRISTIANITY AND PRETTY MUCH ALL RELIGIONS. ALWAYS A WIDE RANGE OF PRACTICES FROM THE CONSERVATIVE...
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| 00:32:57 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SO MUCH ABOUT HISTORY AND ANOTHER FALL WINE OCCURRED TO ME WHILE YOU WERE TALKING, SIDDHARTHA, ABOUT THE PAST VERSUS THE FUTURE AND THIS HAS SOMETHING...
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| 00:33:59 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IN? >> I FEEL AS I GO AROUND PAKISTAN THIS IS SOMETHING I COULD SAY ABOUT THE UNITED STATES. THE FUTURE BELONGS TO SOME DEGREE TO THOSE THAT ARE SUCCESSFUL...
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| 00:35:16 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
INTERESTING. TO THINK THAT PAKISTAN THINKS OF ITSELF AS A NEW COUNTRY AND IT IS BUT AN OLD CIVILIZATION. BUT INDIA THINKS OF ITSELF AS AN OLD COUNTRY...
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| 00:36:03 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
LAST YEARS. [TALKING OVER EACH OTHER] >> THEY ARE ALWAYS THERE
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| 00:36:06 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BUT NOW IT HAS -- WEALTH IS SOMETHING TO BE CELEBRATED. WEALTH AND POWER. >> THAT BRINGS UP
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| 00:36:13 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ANOTHER FAULT LINE AND HAS TO DO IN INDIA AS INTERESTING BECAUSE WE HAVE THE ANCIENT FAULT LINE OF CAST AND WE HAVE THE MORE MODERN UNIVERSE WILL FALL...
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| 00:36:33 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
HAS BECOME MUCH MORE UNEQUAL COUNTRY IN THE LAST 50 OR 20 YEARS. TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF WELFARE AT THE TOP. YOU CAN INCREASE THE FIGURES AND ADD TO THEM....
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| 00:37:59 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE DIVISION THAT INEQUALITIES BUILT INTO THE CITIES THAT ARE CREATED RIGHT NOW, PHILLIP REEVES SPENT YEARS IN DELHI, DESCRIBES PLACES WHERE THERE...
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| 00:40:04 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THAT PAKISTAN IS A PROFOUNDLY FEUDAL SOCIETY AND STILL PROFOUNDLY AGRICULTURAL SOCIETY. MOST OF THESE YOUNG PEOPLE WHO DOMINATE PAKISTAN NUMERICALLY...
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| 00:40:49 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BUT TO VOTE FOR THEIR FEUDAL LEADERS? >> THEY COULD VOTE FOR
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| 00:40:54 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE RELIGIOUS PARTY. THEY COULD VOTE -- >> IS THERE AN
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| 00:40:59 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
EXPECTATION YOU MUST VOTE FOR WHO THE LEADERS WANT YOU TO VOTE FOR? >> THERE ARE ONLY A SET
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| 00:41:05 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
NUMBER OF PARTIES THAT RUN BUT THEY DO TOTALLY DOMINATE THE POLITICAL DISCOURSE OF THE COUNTRY. IF YOU ARE GOING TO VOTE YOU WILL EITHER VOTE FOR WHAT...
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| 00:41:36 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TO ANOTHER FAULT LINE THAT TO SOME EXTENT WE, THE AMERICANS ARE SOMEWHAT TO BLAME. WE HAVE GIVEN BILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO PAKISTAN SINCE THE COLD WAR....
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| 00:43:45 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE DECADES THAT THE PAKISTAN ARMY HAS DOMINATED THE PAKISTANI FOREIGN POLICY AND PAKISTANI CIVILIAN GOVERNMENTS MESS WITH IT AT THEIR PERIL. ON THE OTHER...
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| 00:45:00 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BE INTERESTED, IT WOULD BE GREAT TO SIT DOWN WITH THE PRESIDENT OF PAKISTAN AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT HE IS DOING IN RELATION TO THE MILITARY OF THAT...
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| 00:45:55 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TRIED TO MAKE THE I S I A CIVILIAN INSTITUTION IN LESS THAN A DAY. IT WAS A NAKED KNOW YOU CAN'T AND HE BACKED AWAY FROM THAT AND NEVER MISSING THE LEVERAGE....
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| 00:46:14 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
FACE AND PAKISTANI CIVILIANS FACE IS THE PAKISTAN ARMY IS AS A MATTER OF FACT THE ONLY FORCE IN PAKISTANI SOCIETY CAPABLE OF PREVENTING IT JIHADISTS...
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| 00:46:45 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
YOU AND OTHERS ON THE PANEL THAT THERE WOULD BE LITTLE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT WE HAVE NOW -- THE PAKISTANI ARMY IS CLEARLY HIDDEN BIN LADEN FROM US....
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| 00:48:50 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AS COMFORTABLE SAYING WITH SUCH DEFINITE THAT MILITARY LEADERSHIP IN PAKISTAN KNEW WHERE BIN LADEN WAS. I WOULD ASK WOULD THEY MAKE A CALCULATION THAT...
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| 00:49:05 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IN MY MIND ABOUT WHETHER IT THERE ARE FAULT LINES WITHIN THE MILITARY ITSELF. THE KIND OF FAULT LINES WE HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING. AMERICAN MILITARY OFFICIALS...
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| 00:50:49 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ALWAYS BEEN WILLING TO HELP US AGAINST AL QAEDA. I ACTUALLY THINK IT WOULD HAVE BEEN TO THEIR ADVANTAGE TO HAVE ARRESTED OR KILLED BIN LADEN IF THEY KNEW...
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| 00:51:39 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TIME FOR AUDIENCE QUESTIONS. THIS IS THE MICROPHONE. WE HAVE OUR FIRST QUESTIONER UP HERE. PLEASE DON'T MAKE ANY SPEECHES. JUST QUESTIONS IF YOU DON'T...
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| 00:51:53 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
POLICY TOWARDS INDIA AND PAKISTAN AND DO YOU THINK THAT WILL HAVE ANY INFLUENCE TOWARD WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH THOSE COUNTRIES INDIVIDUALLY AND THEIR RELATIONSHIP...
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| 00:52:08 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TRUE. THAT IS AN ORIENTATION TAKING PLACE. CHINA HAS BEEN CLOSE TO PAKISTAN TRADITIONALLY AND SUSPICIOUS OF INDIA. BUT CHINA IS DEFINITELY MAKING EFFORTS...
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| 00:52:55 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BEEN MASTERFUL IN THE WAY IT DEALT WITH PAKISTAN. UNLIKE THE UNITED STATES WHICH HAS BEEN HOT OR COLD, CHINA HAS ALWAYS BEEN SORT OF NICE AND HELPFUL...
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| 00:53:46 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THEY BUILT A FRIENDSHIP CENTER AND DID SOME BUSINESS INVESTMENT. THEY DON'T GET ON THE HOOK FOR $20 BILLION. >> PAKISTANI OF DONE THAT. >> USING THAT
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| 00:53:56 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TO SAVE THIS IS THE ALTERNATIVE BUT THE CHINESE HAVE NOT BEEN SO WARM. >> NATO -- EXIT STRATEGY
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| 00:54:10 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
FROM AFGHANISTAN. IS THE GROUP GOING TO LEAVE IN LARGE NUMBERS? DO YOU THINK IT WILL HELP EASE THE PROBLEMS IN PAKISTAN OR INTENSIFY PROBLEMS AND PAKISTAN?...
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| 00:54:29 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WILL HAVE MUCH OF AN INFLUENCE. THE PAKISTANIS ARE AT WAR WITH THEIR OWN BRAND OF PAKISTANI TALIBAN AND LOTS OF FORMERLY LOYAL JIHAD GROUPS WHICH ARE...
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| 00:55:24 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE U.S. WITHDRAWAL LEAVES TO ACQUIRE SITUATION IN AFGHANISTAN THAT THAT MIGHT PROVIDE BREATHING ROOM AND LESS MEDIA CRAZINESS FROM PAKISTAN. A LITTLE...
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| 00:55:50 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE OBSERVATIONS I SAW, A COLLEAGUE OF MINE -- >> ARE YOU
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| 00:55:56 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
PAKISTANI? YOU ARE INDIAN. >> WHEN IT HAPPENED,
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| 00:56:06 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WHEN THE MARGIN HAPPENED, ALL THE PROGRESS WENT TO EUROPE. COULD THAT BE THE BETWEEN THE TWO COUNTRIES? >> THERE'S A BAD JOKE
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| 00:56:25 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THAT PAKISTAN IS AN ARMY WITH A STATE. IT IS A BAD JOKE. I DON'T THINK -- STEVE MIGHT BE ABLE TO SHED LIGHT ON THIS BECAUSE HE WROTE ABOUT KARACHI....
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| 00:56:57 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
EXCELLENT HISTORY CALLED INDIA AFTER GANDHI. A LOT OF AMBITIOUS MUSLIMS FROM ALL SECTORS OF SOCIETY MOVED TO PAKISTAN SEEKING OPPORTUNITY. IT IS AN UNDENIABLE...
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| 00:57:20 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IN MIND THE PAKISTAN ARMY BECAME POWERFUL INITIALLY BECAUSE OF THE ARRIVING OF THE KASHMIR DISPUTE WITH INDIA WHICH CAUSED THE LEADERS OF PAKISTAN TO...
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| 00:57:51 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
MILITARY IN PAKISTAN AND COMMENTED THAT EASIER IN THE GOOD OLD DAYS TO TALK TO STRAIGHT TALKING PAKISTANI GENERALS AND WHILE THE INDIAN BUREAUCRATS...
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| 00:58:20 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OF PAKISTAN WERE BRITS. >> IF ANY OF VIEW NO
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| 00:58:27 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
I AM ZOROASTRIAN FROM KARACHI. I AM RELATED -- [TALKING OVER EACH OTHER] >> I AM NOT A POLITICAL
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| 00:58:38 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ANALYST. I'M AN ENGINEER. >> THEY COULD USE
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| 00:58:41 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE ELECTRICAL ENGINEER MORE THAN THE POLITICAL ANALYST. GO AHEAD. >> MY LOYALTY IS TO
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| 00:58:50 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE UNITED STATES. I NATURALIZED CITIZEN BUT IN THE LAST DECADE OR SO WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN MY PLACE OF BIRTH, KARACHI, A LOT HAS BEEN HAPPENING. THE...
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| 00:59:22 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ABOUT AMERICAN MISCHIEF? THAT WHAT YOUR POINTING TO? >> TO ASK THE QUESTION --
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| 00:59:28 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
NO. I SAID OUTSIDE FORCES. IT COULD BE WHATEVER. YOU GUYS ARE REPORTERS. AT LEAST YOU ARE. AND LISTEN TO YOU DILIGENTLY AND YOU'RE A GOOD SUPPORTER....
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| 01:00:42 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
FIRST TWENTY OR THIRTY YEARS PAKISTANI IS WERE REALLY FRIENDLY WITH THE UNITED STATES. SOMETHING HAS TRANSFORMED NOT FROM THE PAKISTANI SIDE. THE POLITICS...
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| 01:01:09 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
PROBLEM. >> LET ME ACKNOWLEDGE. THANK YOU FOR YOUR QUESTION. LET ME ACKNOWLEDGE I AM AN AMERICAN AND I WAS NOT BORN IN PAKISTAN AND IT IS A FAIR ...
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| 01:01:32 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ANSWER. >> I'M NOT. NOT ONLY ABOUT THE UNITED STATES BUT ABOUT -- >> LET ME ANSWER IT THIS
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| 01:01:43 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WAY. INDIA UNDENIABLY HAS HAD A RIVALRY WITH PAKISTAN. UNDENIABLY HAS A POWERFUL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY THAT HAS BEEN INVOLVED IN MANY WAYS ALL OVER SOUTH...
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| 01:03:08 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ME SAY THIS. I CARE A GREAT DEAL ABOUT PAKISTAN AND WHAT HAPPENS TO IT BUT I WILL END WITH THIS. ULTIMATELY THE PAKISTANIS ARE THE AUTHORS OF THEIR OWN...
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| 01:03:23 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
REPORTER -- SOMETHING YOU AS A REPORTER ALSO PLACED IN THE PEANUT GALLERY WHICH MEANS AMERICA'S POPULATION BUT I AM USING THE WORD OUTSIDE FORCES. YOU...
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| 01:03:45 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
UP. I WANT TO THANK ALL OF YOU FOR COMING. THIS HAS BEEN A VERY STIMULATING PANEL. [APPLAUSE] >>
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| 01:04:02 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE AUTHORS WILL BE ASSIGNING TEND TO SIGNING THEIR BOOKS SO DON'T HESITATE TO RUN OVER THERE AND GET YOUR COPIES. THE PROCEEDS WILL BE GOING TO HELP...
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NOTE: The transcript for this program was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.