Text Timeline

Text Timeline
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1 sec.	Unofficial Transcript, -
1 min.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California Thank you. The Committee will come to order. Before I begin, and I don’t think that I have to remind the audience broadly, but I will, decorum will...
20 sec.	Cummings, Elijah - U.S. Representative, [D] Maryland Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I ask unanimous consent that Representative Gwen Moore of the 4th District of Wisconsin be permitted to attend in this...
7 min.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California Per our rule, without objection, so ordered. The Oversight Committee mission statement is that we exist to secure two fundamental principles: first, Americans...
11 sec.	Cummings, Elijah - U.S. Representative, [D] Maryland Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I ask unanimous consent that the statement of the National Education Association, dated April 14th, 2011, be admitted...
1 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California Without objection, so ordered.
5 min.	Cummings, Elijah - U.S. Representative, [D] Maryland Thank you very much. Mr. Chairman, I strongly support efforts to help States continue their economic recovery and eliminate the budget shortfalls caused...
8 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California I thank the gentleman. The Chair now recognizes the distinguished gentleman, Subcommittee Chairman, Patrick McHenry, for an opening statement.
4 min.	McHenry, Patrick - U.S. Representative, [R] North Carolina Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you so much for holding this hearing today and, governor, thank you for being here. Over the past two months, Congressman...
16 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California I thank the gentleman and I thank him for what his subcommittee on a bipartisan basis has been doing on this matter. We now recognize his partner, the...
3 min.	Quigley, Michael "Mike" - U.S. Representative, [D] Illinois Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to thank you for convening today’s third hearing on State and municipal debt. I would like to thank the Chairman...
28 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California I thank the gentleman. Members may have seven legislative days in order to submit additional statements and extraneous material. We would now like to...
1 min.	Mr. Sensenbrenner, - Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. It is my pleasure and honor today to introduce my friend and constituent, Governor Scott Walker. I first got acquainted...
10 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California I thank the gentleman. With all the people that Governor Shumlin could have had introduce him, he chose Peter Welch. The gentleman is recognized.
4 min.	Welch, Peter - U.S. Representative, [D] Vermont Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Ranking Member, members of the Committee that I proudly serve on. It is my pleasure to introduce Governor Peter Shumlin of...
23 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California I thank the gentleman. Pursuant to Committee rules, all witnesses will be sworn in. Would you please rise to take the oath and raise your right hand?...
1 sec.	Witnesses respond in the affirmative., -
47 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California Let the record reflect that all witnesses answered in the affirmative. Please be seated. Gentlemen, we have Congressmen who come before us, Senators who...
5 min.	Governor Walker, - Thank you, Mr. Chairman, distinguished members of the Committee, visiting members as well. Governor, it is good to be with you here as well; we got to...
3 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California Thank you, Governor. Governor Shumlin.
1 min.	Governor Shumlin, - Thank you so much, Chairman Issa, Ranking Member Cummings. Thank you so much for this invitation today, to all members of the Oversight and Reform Committee,...
3 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California Governor, how did you get that through TSA?
6 min.	Governor Shumlin, - That is one of the advantages of being governor. Governor Walker can tell you about this. No more TSA. That is how I brought the syrup down. We are both...
	Applause., -
45 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California Thank you, Governor. I will now recognize myself for the first round of questions. Governor, the sign behind me, we don’t normally point to the sign,...
24 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - It was a necessity in the respect that while we don’t have a balance budget amendment, as Congressman Welch suggested, we have to balance our budgets...
7 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California Good. I would like to ask Governor Walker the same question. We are rather in love with the title today, so why don’t we get that answer out?
40 sec.	Governor Walker, - Well, I think in a rhetorical sense it certainly is necessary. But we have seen in the past, in my State’s history, prior to us making these critical...
1 min.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California Thank you, Governor. One of the reasons we titled today’s hearing that way, knowing you would be here, is I happen to be from California, and we too,...
9 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - Well, it is efficient for two reasons. The first is it gives the employee a guaranteed retirement plan. And I think there has been tremendous misunderstanding...
1 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California Okay. And the second?
4 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - -- which is that in Vermont, as an example, our average pension --
3 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California No, I understand why it is more desirable for the recipient.
1 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - Right.
3 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California Here in the Federal Government we have a defined benefits plan.
2 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - Right. The efficiency from my perspective, --
1 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California Yes.
14 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - -- as governor, is simply that the returns for our investment, not taking a picture of it during the worst recession, but over time -- and unlike General...
3 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California Well, it is not within the Constitution.
	Governor Shumlin, - Thank you.
1 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California It gives you a choice.
18 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - Therefore, we are held to a slightly different standard than a General Motors retirement plan, the point being the average return for us has been around...
32 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California Okay, I think I have your answer. I would like to get Governor Walker, along that line, why is that more efficient than knowing the amount that you give...
1 min.	Governor Walker, - Well, I think when you look at benefits, be they in the public or the private sector, defined contribution is ultimately more efficient. That is not what...
28 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California Thank you, Governor. As I recognize the Ranking Member, I just want to make one thing clear for the record. The Federal Government currently, for regular...
1 min.	Cummings, Elijah - U.S. Representative, [D] Maryland Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. You know, the thing that I think stands out here is the fact that, and I say this to both governors, that sometimes...
1 min.	Governor Walker, - Sure. I will answer the question, Representative. Two of the statewide union leaders made a statement a week into the debate about suggesting that they...
5 sec.	Cummings, Elijah - U.S. Representative, [D] Maryland Well, I am looking at an article from the Wisconsin Journal’s Sentinel. I guess that is the local paper?
2 sec.	Governor Walker, - One of them.
21 sec.	Cummings, Elijah - U.S. Representative, [D] Maryland In this article, Democrat State Senator Jon Erpenbach makes crystal clear that all the State and local public employees, including teachers, have agreed...
34 sec.	Governor Walker, - Again, that was the statement made by the statewide leaders. The actions they took after those statements, though, contradict those statements. If they...
8 sec.	Cummings, Elijah - U.S. Representative, [D] Maryland Did you ever consider dropping your collective bargaining demands? Did you ever consider that?
1 min.	Governor Walker, - For us, to me, I was a county elected official for eight years. We talk about shared sacrifice? Because my county faced a crisis, I gave, over those eight...
3 sec.	Cummings, Elijah - U.S. Representative, [D] Maryland Thank you.
5 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California I thank the gentleman. The Chair now recognizes the Chairman of the Subcommittee, Mr. McHenry, for his round of questioning.
1 min.	McHenry, Patrick - U.S. Representative, [R] North Carolina Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Governor Walker, I certainly appreciate your testimony. Governor Shumlin, thank you so much as well. There is this discussion...
2 min.	Governor Walker, - Sure. Again, I will tell you not only as a governor for the last couple months, for as a county official for eight years prior to that, for us, we saw...
8 sec.	McHenry, Patrick - U.S. Representative, [R] North Carolina And I understand competitiveness, especially in the Midwest, in terms of job creation, so there is competition on tax rates, obviously, right?
10 sec.	Governor Walker, - Absolutely. We love the fact that while our corporate tax rate is 7.9 percent, the effective tax rate in Illinois is now 9.5 percent. We love that distinction...
54 sec.	McHenry, Patrick - U.S. Representative, [R] North Carolina Well, thank you. The other question I have is as opposed to a private sector pension, where those that are receiving the pension benefit are the ones...
51 sec.	Governor Walker, - Oh, I think at both the State and local level, as well, there needs to be more transparency. One of the things we are the most proud about this budget...
27 sec.	McHenry, Patrick - U.S. Representative, [R] North Carolina Thank you. I know my time has expired, but certainly those that are arguing now about public sector pensions, you have those that are saying these pensions...
34 sec.	Governor Walker, - Well, and the one thing important to remember, I mentioned the Illinois-Wisconsin distinction, not only do they half fund it, but you have the speaker...
8 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California Thank you, Governor. We now recognize the former Chairman of the full Committee, Mr. Towns, for five minutes.
27 sec.	Towns, Edolphus - U.S. Representative, [D] New York Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Governor Walker, why do people in general, I have talked to people from your State, people just around the Nation,...
48 sec.	Governor Walker, - It would be erroneous. Maybe it is because they are watching some of the TV ads that groups from Washington played in the State of Wisconsin, because...
4 sec.	Towns, Edolphus - U.S. Representative, [D] New York When you say make it easy, what do you mean by that, giving tax breaks to the big businesses?
19 sec.	Governor Walker, - No, we don’t give tax breaks to big business. What we do is something that is targeted for small business and big alike. We have a specific job tax...
2 sec.	Towns, Edolphus - U.S. Representative, [D] New York What is the unemployment rate in Wisconsin?
16 sec.	Governor Walker, - We have a 7.4 percent unemployment rate. Still too high; obviously less than the national average. First two months of this year we have had about 13,000...
14 sec.	Towns, Edolphus - U.S. Representative, [D] New York Did you have to lay off municipal workers or government employees in order to put your budget in place and to get the 13,000 that was increased? I am...
46 sec.	Governor Walker, - No, no, you are right. In our case, in putting this budget together, we actually avoided it. For the remainder of fiscal year 2011, the deficit of the...
3 sec.	Towns, Edolphus - U.S. Representative, [D] New York Did you ever think about using maple syrup?
5 sec.	Governor Walker, - Well, I have some now. It is pretty good. It is not as good as the cranberry juice we make in Wisconsin, but it is pretty good.
2 sec.	Towns, Edolphus - U.S. Representative, [D] New York Rather than using the vinegar.
16 sec.	Governor Walker, - Well, I have tried. As a county executive I tried for eight years, and the unions basically told me lay off people, and to me that is just unacceptable....
19 sec.	Towns, Edolphus - U.S. Representative, [D] New York Governor Shumlin, how did you get people to have a different attitude? I just don’t quite understand why people in Wisconsin would think that way when...
2 min.	Governor Shumlin, - Well, thank you, Congressman Towns. I am sitting here listening to Governor Walker and I am sitting here realizing we all have similar challenges as governors....
3 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California The gentleman’s time has expired.
3 sec.	Towns, Edolphus - U.S. Representative, [D] New York Let me just say this, Mr. Chairman, in closing. Governor, keep using maple syrup.
2 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - We are going to try.
1 sec.	Towns, Edolphus - U.S. Representative, [D] New York Thank you.
3 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California The gentleman from Utah, Mr. Chaffetz, for five minutes.
1 min.	Chaffetz, Jason - U.S. Representative, [R] Utah Thank you. Governor Shumlin, I would like to talk to you, if I could, about the pension plan in your State. I come from Utah. We have, I think, two things...
10 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - Well, all I can tell you is that it served my and other States well that have used defined benefit plans, and that we have had over time --
15 sec.	Chaffetz, Jason - U.S. Representative, [R] Utah But the healthy over the course of time -- if somebody told me they thought they were going to get an 8 to 8.5 percent return, I said they are probably...
19 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - If you look at the averages for State pensions across the history of defined benefit plans, you will find that we get about an 8 percent return, on average....
2 sec.	Chaffetz, Jason - U.S. Representative, [R] Utah But do you think you are going to get that going forward?
1 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - May I just finish, Congressman?
2 sec.	Chaffetz, Jason - U.S. Representative, [R] Utah Yes, but going forward do you think you are going to get that?
59 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - We do. And that is why Moody’s and the other bonding agencies allow us to assume that rate of return on our investments. We are not sort of making this...
3 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California Would the gentleman yield, very quickly?
	Chaffetz, Jason - U.S. Representative, [R] Utah Yes.
15 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California Governor, if you are fully funded, that is not true. If you are fully funded, you would be able to stop putting money in the moment you make the switch,...
2 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - We are adequately funded.
17 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California Well, okay. As long as we understand that adequately is kicking the can down the road so that studies show that if you only got the rate of return of...
2 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - Well, if I can just finish. If I can answer that, Mr. Chair.
2 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California It is the gentleman’s time.
2 sec.	Chaffetz, Jason - U.S. Representative, [R] Utah Go ahead.
44 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - If I can answer that, we don’t make this stuff up as governors. Both Governor Walker and I travel down to Wall Street to try and convince them that...
51 sec.	Chaffetz, Jason - U.S. Representative, [R] Utah Governor, Chairman, as I conclude here, I don’t want to go over my time, I really do think that a flashing red light for investors for this Country,...
6 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California I thank the gentleman. We now recognize the former mayor of Cleveland, Ohio, Dennis Kucinich, for five minutes.
1 min.	Kucinich, Dennis - U.S. Representative, [D] Ohio Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Governor Walker, you said the union leaders agreed to the financial cuts, but then you blamed the local unions for not following...
20 sec.	Governor Walker, - That and a number of other provisions we put in, because if you are going to put in place a change like that, we wanted to make sure that we protected...
1 sec.	Kucinich, Dennis - U.S. Representative, [D] Ohio Could you answer the question?
2 sec.	Governor Walker, - -- and whether or not they went up to $1,000 --
1 sec.	Kucinich, Dennis - U.S. Representative, [D] Ohio How much money does it save, Governor? Just answer the question.
2 sec.	Governor Walker, - It doesn’t save any.
1 sec.	Kucinich, Dennis - U.S. Representative, [D] Ohio Okay.
2 sec.	Governor Walker, - In the same way that you --
1 sec.	Kucinich, Dennis - U.S. Representative, [D] Ohio That is the point.
1 sec.	Governor Walker, - If you read the Federal budget --
	Kucinich, Dennis - U.S. Representative, [D] Ohio It obviously has no effect whatsoever.
	Governor Walker, - I will answer your question.
16 sec.	Kucinich, Dennis - U.S. Representative, [D] Ohio I am reclaiming my time. It obviously had no effect whatsoever on the State budget. I want to ask about another one of your proposals. Under your plan...
6 sec.	Governor Walker, - It would save employees up to $1,000 per year they could use to pay for their pension and their health care contributions.
7 sec.	Kucinich, Dennis - U.S. Representative, [D] Ohio Governor, it wouldn’t save anything, or a minor administrative cost, if any. It is obvious what the real intent is here, and I will back it up.
2 sec.	Governor Walker, - It is to give workers a right. It is to give workers the right to choose.
39 sec.	Kucinich, Dennis - U.S. Representative, [D] Ohio I will back it up. Mr. Chairman, right here from the State of Wisconsin’s Legislative Fiscal Bureau, this is a nonpartisan State budget agency much...
5 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California Reserving the right, we will inspect it and plan to include it in the record.
3 sec.	Kucinich, Dennis - U.S. Representative, [D] Ohio That is unusual you would reserve the right to object.
	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California The gentleman --
2 sec.	Kucinich, Dennis - U.S. Representative, [D] Ohio I am claiming my time.
20 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California The gentleman will suspend. Hold the time. We fully expect to include it in the record. Because it is not a publication that is widely distributed, we...
	Kucinich, Dennis - U.S. Representative, [D] Ohio I would like to respond.
1 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California Yes.
20 sec.	Kucinich, Dennis - U.S. Representative, [D] Ohio In the 14 years that I have been on this Committee, I have never had a chairman reserve the right to object to putting an official document in the record...
19 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California The gentleman is incorrect. Chairman Waxman did it repeatedly. In most cases, just as here, by the end of the hearing, items which were not part of widely...
2 min.	Kucinich, Dennis - U.S. Representative, [D] Ohio Well, I just made it a matter of public record anyway. The title of this hearing is choice or necessity. I think that what we have been able to demonstrate...
7 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California I guess that is a thank you. The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Oklahoma, --
	Kucinich, Dennis - U.S. Representative, [D] Ohio Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
1 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California -- Mr. Lankford, for five minutes.
35 sec.	Lankford, James - U.S. Representative, [R] Oklahoma Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you, both governors, for taking away your time to be able to be here with us. Governor Shumlin, I want to be able to...
4 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - It has been an ongoing effort. Both the previous governor, Republican governor -- don’t forget, I was president of the senate, --
1 sec.	Lankford, James - U.S. Representative, [R] Oklahoma Correct.
3 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - -- so I actually helped negotiate the --
1 sec.	Lankford, James - U.S. Representative, [R] Oklahoma Correct.
3 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - -- with the speaker, the agreement with the teachers union.
11 sec.	Lankford, James - U.S. Representative, [R] Oklahoma I was just trying to provide some clarification because you were talking about you didn’t want to do that on the backs of workers at this point. You...
6 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - I don’t mean to suggest that we did not ask our State employees to make sacrifices, we did and they did.
1 sec.	Lankford, James - U.S. Representative, [R] Oklahoma Great.
3 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - All I am suggesting is that we did it by bringing them to the table.
21 sec.	Lankford, James - U.S. Representative, [R] Oklahoma Sure. Okay. So it is just the method on that side in the cooperation that the others had with all the leadership as well. Obviously, it takes two to tango...
5 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - That is a question I am going to leave to you. That is why I never want to run for Congress.
5 sec.	Lankford, James - U.S. Representative, [R] Oklahoma Actually, that is a question I am asking you because, as a governor, you obviously represent the intents of a State.
33 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - I will answer it this way. I don’t think you are going to have to. And I think that the case for the bankruptcy of States is greatly exaggerated for...
	Lankford, James - U.S. Representative, [R] Oklahoma Right.
7 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - That we are going to see our way through this and that the case for pension crisis is being overstated by Washington.
4 sec.	Lankford, James - U.S. Representative, [R] Oklahoma Okay. Let me ask the same question to Governor Walker. Do you think the Federal Government should bail out individual States?
1 sec.	Governor Walker, - No.
23 sec.	Lankford, James - U.S. Representative, [R] Oklahoma Let me ask a follow-up question to both of you, as we have time, and that is are there things we are doing as a Federal Government that drives up your...
4 sec.	Governor Walker, - I see have two minutes. There is no way I can answer that question in two minutes -
4 sec.	Lankford, James - U.S. Representative, [R] Oklahoma I will allow your staff to submit all you can for the record on that.
3 sec.	Governor Walker, - Number one thing you could give us, block grant Medicaid.
	Lankford, James - U.S. Representative, [R] Oklahoma Okay.
35 sec.	Governor Walker, - If you give us a block grant for Medicaid, that is -- I had to put $1.2 billion more of general purpose revenue, that is State aid, State funding, into...
13 sec.	Lankford, James - U.S. Representative, [R] Oklahoma Now, you are aware that -- I am also on the Budget Committee -- when we brought up that idea, we have been told that the governors will certainly kick...
19 sec.	Governor Walker, - Well, that argument was made back in the 1990s when my good friend, Tommy Thompson, was governor and he pushed welfare reform. Bill Clinton ultimately...
5 sec.	Lankford, James - U.S. Representative, [R] Oklahoma Governor Shumlin, are there areas that we are doing as a Federal Government that is causing you pain as far as on the financial side?
48 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - Yes. And just in terms of Governor Walker’s response, we are all concerned about health care costs, Medicaid and Medicare. The only thing I would caveat...
9 sec.	Lankford, James - U.S. Representative, [R] Oklahoma Thank you very much. With that, I yield back.
5 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California I thank the gentleman. We now recognize the gentleman from Iowa, Mr. Braley.
57 sec.	Braley, Bruce - U.S. Representative, [D] Iowa Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My name is Bruce Braley, and I am proud to be a public employee. In fact, Governor Walker, when you were a six-year-old growing...
4 sec.	Governor Walker, - I thought the purpose of today was to talk about debt and --
18 sec.	Braley, Bruce - U.S. Representative, [D] Iowa Well, let’s talk about that. You ran campaign ads on the principle of good government, and I thought that is what we were here to talk about today....
5 sec.	Governor Walker, - Yes. And I would argue if you want me to -- you asked me a question and I say I remember it, and that is exactly what I did --
1 sec.	Braley, Bruce - U.S. Representative, [D] Iowa Okay, you have answered the question.
4 sec.	Governor Walker, - In my first month and a half, when Democrats and Republicans came together to push economic development --
1 sec.	Braley, Bruce - U.S. Representative, [D] Iowa Excuse me. This is my time, Governor.
1 sec.	Governor Walker, - Well, you asked me a question.
1 sec.	Braley, Bruce - U.S. Representative, [D] Iowa You answered my question. I asked you if you remembered it.
2 sec.	Governor Walker, - If you want to do a political stunt, go ahead.
48 sec.	Braley, Bruce - U.S. Representative, [D] Iowa I am not doing a political stunt. I think if Dr. Phil were here, he would say how is that working for you? You also ran an ad called Yes, We Can, and...
38 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California The Chair will ask the gentleman to suspend. Please turn off the clock. The Chair would remind all participants, although members here at the dais have...
29 sec.	Governor Walker, - When I grew up in Plainfield, at least for the years I lived there, and Chuck Grassley was our State assemblyman back then, there were good, decent people,...
5 sec.	Braley, Bruce - U.S. Representative, [D] Iowa I would be interested in your answer because that is the question the people of Wisconsin want to hear today.
2 sec.	Governor Walker, - Well, I am glad you are interested in the people of Wisconsin --
1 sec.	Braley, Bruce - U.S. Representative, [D] Iowa I am.
16 sec.	Governor Walker, - -- because that person was five levels below me. When that hiring was brought to my attention, I and my staff go back and have that person taken out of...
	Braley, Bruce - U.S. Representative, [D] Iowa Well --
1 sec.	Governor Walker, - Now, would you look at --
2 sec.	Braley, Bruce - U.S. Representative, [D] Iowa I am reclaiming my time.
2 sec.	Governor Walker, - Well, if you don’t want to hear the truth, then keep it up.
1 min.	Braley, Bruce - U.S. Representative, [D] Iowa The Milwaukee Journal, Mr. Chairman, has written an article about this and noted that two of the highly qualified candidates for that administrative post...
2 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California Without objection. The gentleman yields back.
5 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Florida, Mr. Ross, for five minutes.
1 min.	Ross, Dennis - U.S. Representative, [R] Florida Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Governors, thank you both for being here. This is very insightful for me, especially in my home State of Florida, where we are...
27 sec.	Governor Walker, - I wouldn’t have the numbers off the top of my head, but I know both at the State level and we see the same thing at the local level. We certainly saw...
5 sec.	Ross, Dennis - U.S. Representative, [R] Florida So Wisconsin does keep track of official time spent on union activities?
17 sec.	Governor Walker, - For example, there is time at both the State and the local level that people who are employees of the government who are designated as union officials...
3 sec.	Ross, Dennis - U.S. Representative, [R] Florida Governor Shumlin, is it the same situation in Vermont?
23 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - It is not an issue in Vermont. Our public employees unionized work hard, and they work long days and long nights, and we are certain that that is what...
24 sec.	Ross, Dennis - U.S. Representative, [R] Florida In Florida, we are deliberating now in the legislature on something that was deliberated back when I was in the legislature there, what was known as a...
19 sec.	Governor Walker, - That is in the legislation that I signed the law approximately a month ago, and the concept of that is, in the interest of workers, they should have the...
1 sec.	Ross, Dennis - U.S. Representative, [R] Florida Governor Shumlin?
33 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - It hasn’t been any significant part of the debate. You know, we are really, like Governor Walker, we are facing a tough economy and a tough budget challenge...
44 sec.	Ross, Dennis - U.S. Representative, [R] Florida In accomplishing these objectives, whether they be pro-union or anti-union, whatever they may be requires people to come to the bargaining table, it requires...
16 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - Well, I have to tell you I have my hands full dealing with the challenges that I am facing in Vermont and I don’t comment much on what is happening...
2 sec.	Ross, Dennis - U.S. Representative, [R] Florida Thank you. Governor Walker?
49 sec.	Governor Walker, - Obviously, I had great concern. When I talk to factory workers over the last month or two, if you walked off the job for three weeks, you wouldn’t be...
1 sec.	Ross, Dennis - U.S. Representative, [R] Florida Thank you, and I yield back.
10 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Vermont, Mr. Welch, for his questions.
20 sec.	Welch, Peter - U.S. Representative, [D] Vermont Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Governor Shumlin, I see that seated behind you is Matt Finsey, who is a leader of the Public Employees Union, the firefighters;...
13 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - I don’t know if I didn’t get it, but all I can tell you is we get along great, as you know, and there is nothing better than our firefighters working...
1 min.	Welch, Peter - U.S. Representative, [D] Vermont You know, as I have listened to Governor Walker describe his problems, it seems to me very similar to what you described to me this morning when we had...
54 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - I will try to be very brief. You know, really, as you know, my guess is that my approach isn’t much different than other governors across the Country....
1 min.	Welch, Peter - U.S. Representative, [D] Vermont Let me ask Governor Walker. I just want to make an observation. We have a problem here in Congress, and this is my own personal observation after serving...
1 min.	Governor Walker, - Yes, and I think the results, obviously, were frustrating. One of the things that frustrated me the most is I think if you are going to participate in...
2 sec.	Welch, Peter - U.S. Representative, [D] Vermont I yield back. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
5 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California I thank the gentleman. The Chair now recognizes the gentleman, Mr. Kelly, for five minutes.
60 sec.	Kelly, Mike - U.S. Representative, [R] Pennsylvania Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And both governors, thank you for being here. I come from the private sector, so I understand a little bit about having your...
1 min.	Governor Shumlin, - You know, I think it is really important to stick with the facts, and the fact of the matter is, if you look at Vermont, this is what happened: In the...
4 sec.	Kelly, Mike - U.S. Representative, [R] Pennsylvania Okay, but my question is who makes up the difference in the loss.
4 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - My point is there was no loss; we have gotten the gains back.
7 sec.	Kelly, Mike - U.S. Representative, [R] Pennsylvania I understand what you are saying, but there is somebody who does provide the safety net, and we both know that. Governor Walker.
2 min.	Governor Walker, - Yes. It is the taxpayers. In our case, before these reforms, you have talked a lot today about, for example, my proposal of the 5.8 percent contribution....
7 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California I thank the gentleman. We now go to the gentleman from Virginia, Mr. Connolly, for five minutes.
11 sec.	Connolly, Gerald "Gerry" E. - U.S. Representative, [D] Virginia Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and welcome, governors. Governor Shumlin, did I understand in your testimony that you said that the pension fund in Vermont has...
17 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - That is correct. That is what we have had over time. And I think it is really important to address the question of who pays and the statement just made...
2 sec.	Connolly, Gerald "Gerry" E. - U.S. Representative, [D] Virginia Eighty percent?
3 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - That is correct.
2 sec.	Connolly, Gerald "Gerry" E. - U.S. Representative, [D] Virginia You are a member of the National Governors Association?
1 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - Excuse me?
3 sec.	Connolly, Gerald "Gerry" E. - U.S. Representative, [D] Virginia You are a member of the National Governors Association?
1 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - Yes.
8 sec.	Connolly, Gerald "Gerry" E. - U.S. Representative, [D] Virginia Is it your understand from your fellow governors that Vermont is unique and that most State pension funds are in fact under water or about to go so?
6 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - It is not my understanding that most are under water, no.
23 sec.	Connolly, Gerald "Gerry" E. - U.S. Representative, [D] Virginia Mr. Chairman, I would ask unanimous consent to enter into the record correspondence provided by the National League of Cities, NACo, NASAC, ICMA, NSA,...
6 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California Have they been received by the parliamentarian yet?
7 sec.	Connolly, Gerald "Gerry" E. - U.S. Representative, [D] Virginia We have copies here, Mr. Chairman.
5 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California Okay. Bring them up. We will reserve and make a final decision by the end of the hearing.
15 sec.	Connolly, Gerald "Gerry" E. - U.S. Representative, [D] Virginia Thank you very much. Governor Walker, when you campaigned for governor, did you campaign on the issue of collective bargaining being a problem with respect...
20 sec.	Governor Walker, - I talked about wages and benefits overall, even ran campaign ads on it. But I didn’t specify exactly what form; I talked about the broad spectrum. And,...
2 sec.	Connolly, Gerald "Gerry" E. - U.S. Representative, [D] Virginia Explicitly?
9 sec.	Governor Walker, - Again, I didn’t run an ad saying I am going to do exactly this, but I talked about the full range and I talked about it in a couple of debates, about...
5 sec.	Connolly, Gerald "Gerry" E. - U.S. Representative, [D] Virginia Good. I had 43 debates when I ran for re-election last year. That is a lot of debates.
1 sec.	Governor Walker, - I didn’t have that many, I am glad.
3 sec.	Connolly, Gerald "Gerry" E. - U.S. Representative, [D] Virginia Probably more than most members of this body.
1 sec.	Governor Walker, - That is impressive.
1 sec.	Connolly, Gerald "Gerry" E. - U.S. Representative, [D] Virginia And I enjoyed every one of them.
3 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California That is also more than most members.
11 sec.	Connolly, Gerald "Gerry" E. - U.S. Representative, [D] Virginia Exactly. But the collective bargaining, in your debates with your opponent, you actually brought up collective bargaining and said that is something I...
15 sec.	Governor Walker, - I talked about the whole spectrum. I talked specifically about the 5 and 12 percent. They said how far are you willing to go? I said I am willing to change...
7 sec.	Connolly, Gerald "Gerry" E. - U.S. Representative, [D] Virginia Governor Walker, I am asking a very specific question. Did you explicitly single out --
1 sec.	Governor Walker, - No. No. I talked about the whole range.
14 sec.	Connolly, Gerald "Gerry" E. - U.S. Representative, [D] Virginia So you might concede that some might be surprised, then, that you made collective bargaining such a centerpiece of your so-called reform efforts after...
12 sec.	Governor Walker, - No, I would say no because for eight years as county executive I not only talked about it, I actually brought it up. I did what was called the Reality...
6 sec.	Connolly, Gerald "Gerry" E. - U.S. Representative, [D] Virginia So from your point of view nobody should have been surprised once you were elected and sworn in.
1 sec.	Governor Walker, - Hundred percent correct.
3 sec.	Connolly, Gerald "Gerry" E. - U.S. Representative, [D] Virginia Were you, then, surprised at the reaction that generated in your State?
24 sec.	Governor Walker, - Not in my State. For eight years I took on the status quo in a county that had never elected a Republican before. I was elected with 54, then 57, then...
29 sec.	Connolly, Gerald "Gerry" E. - U.S. Representative, [D] Virginia Thank you. Let me ask a quick question. You got a famous phone call from somebody pretending to be David Koch, and he said, well, I tell you what, Scott,...
6 sec.	Governor Walker, - At that point I was down in the call, I had two other people waiting for me and I was trying to get off the call and get on to the next issue.
8 sec.	Connolly, Gerald "Gerry" E. - U.S. Representative, [D] Virginia It wasn’t that you honestly thought it was Mr. Koch and that he was promising to reward you for what you were doing?
2 sec.	Governor Walker, - Did not in that regard, no.
5 sec.	Connolly, Gerald "Gerry" E. - U.S. Representative, [D] Virginia The flying out to Cali thing didn’t strike you?
3 sec.	Governor Walker, - No. I didn’t even know what Cali is.
13 sec.	Connolly, Gerald "Gerry" E. - U.S. Representative, [D] Virginia Have you ever had a conversation with respect to your actions in Wisconsin and using them to punish members of the opposite party and their donor base?
	Governor Walker, - No.
2 sec.	Connolly, Gerald "Gerry" E. - U.S. Representative, [D] Virginia You have never had such a conversation?
1 sec.	Governor Walker, - No.
1 sec.	Connolly, Gerald "Gerry" E. - U.S. Representative, [D] Virginia Thank you. My time is up.
11 sec.	Governor Walker, - I spent eight years talking about the challenges of the county official, the fact that I had a series of unions in Milwaukee County who constantly told...
1 sec.	Connolly, Gerald "Gerry" E. - U.S. Representative, [D] Virginia Thank you. My time is up.
2 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California Thank you. Dr. DesJarlais.
28 sec.	Desjarlais, Scott Eugene - U.S. Representative, [R] Tennessee Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, governors, for being here today. Governor Walker, I believe your home State and my home State of Tennessee has constitutional...
21 sec.	Governor Walker, - Yes. And I think both of us as governors talk about the fact that, as governors, even with either party, for us to succeed and to have States grow their...
44 sec.	Desjarlais, Scott Eugene - U.S. Representative, [R] Tennessee Thank you. This last election it was pretty clear to me, coming from the private sector, that the American people have sent a referendum that they feel...
53 sec.	Governor Walker, - Well, let me just point out two quick things in that. One, this debate, to me, has never been about the level of pay or compensation, because I think...
20 sec.	Desjarlais, Scott Eugene - U.S. Representative, [R] Tennessee Thank you. Governor Shumlin, you had mentioned in your testimony earlier that you went to where the money was to help get your fiscal house in order,...
43 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - Wow. Well, how long do we have? The answer is yes, we are working very hard to pass a health care bill that will be the first in Country where health...
12 sec.	Desjarlais, Scott Eugene - U.S. Representative, [R] Tennessee Okay. We will be interested to see how that turns out, as we certainly have our challenges here. Do you believe that collective bargaining is really a...
35 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - I believe it is a basic right in democratic society. And I say that as a guy who grew up, born and raise, in Vermont. My ancestors, like so many probably...
36 sec.	Desjarlais, Scott Eugene - U.S. Representative, [R] Tennessee You had made a comment at the National Governors Association meeting that the ability to collectively bargain is a basic human right in democracy. This...
4 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - I would just say that even someone as great as Roosevelt could be wrong once.
7 sec.	Desjarlais, Scott Eugene - U.S. Representative, [R] Tennessee I might disagree on that point, but my time is out and I thank you for your comments. I yield back.
5 sec.	Gosar, Paul - U.S. Representative, [R] Arizona [Presiding.] I thank the gentleman. I want to acknowledge my colleague, Mr. Murphy, from Connecticut.
3 min.	Murphy, Christopher "Chris" S. - U.S. Representative, [D] Connecticut Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Both governors, thank you for you attendance today and for sticking with us throughout this process. I guess I just...
20 sec.	Governor Walker, - Two things. One, I think any outside observer of politics in our State would probably jump to that conclusion for all the parties involved. They would...
4 sec.	Murphy, Christopher "Chris" S. - U.S. Representative, [D] Connecticut Except this fight wasn’t started by labor; this fight was started by --
1 min.	Governor Walker, - No, but you just asked about the money and I clearly recognize that. I want to put in context that there is a lot of money all the way around coming from...
14 sec.	Murphy, Christopher "Chris" S. - U.S. Representative, [D] Connecticut My time is almost up. I understand you can’t speak for him, but you can certainly opine as to whether you agree with your State senate leader when he...
18 sec.	Governor Walker, - I can tell you what it is for me. It is not about that, it is ultimately about balancing the budget now and in the future; not just in the temporary,...
6 sec.	Murphy, Christopher "Chris" S. - U.S. Representative, [D] Connecticut There are millions of dollars being pumped into the State who disagree with that vision, but I appreciate your answer. Thank you very much.
5 sec.	Gosar, Paul - U.S. Representative, [R] Arizona I thank my colleague. I want to acknowledge my colleague, Mr. Gowdy, from South Carolina.
38 sec.	Gowdy, Trey - U.S. Representative, [R] South Carolina Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Governor Shumlin, I noted the conciliatory tone in both your introduction and your opening statement. I made a couple of notes....
1 min.	Governor Shumlin, - Well, you know, you don’t apply the reasonableness plea in the heat of the crisis; you avert the crisis. And I will just tell you by way of our experience...
13 sec.	Gowdy, Trey - U.S. Representative, [R] South Carolina But there is a concept of mutuality that is inherent or required for that to happen. I know you would agree with me. I also want to say inherent in your...
1 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - Right.
30 sec.	Gowdy, Trey - U.S. Representative, [R] South Carolina In the last two weeks alone, members of this body have been told by a colleague to go to hell. Not purgatory, not shule, not haitis, not the river sticks,...
17 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - You know, I think that civility has to be applied to all public officials, and I think that we need to raise the bar collectively, and that applies to...
9 sec.	Gowdy, Trey - U.S. Representative, [R] South Carolina Do you think that making surreptitious phone calls, pretending to be someone you are not, enhances civility and discourse in this Country?
14 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - All I can say is I have no disagreement with you that the civility tunnel runs both ways, and we all have a responsibility as public servants, and the...
20 sec.	Gowdy, Trey - U.S. Representative, [R] South Carolina You, in response to Dr. DesJarlais, I think, and, again, I always allow for the possibility that maybe have been misquoted, the ability to collectively...
3 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - Well, free speech.
10 sec.	Gowdy, Trey - U.S. Representative, [R] South Carolina Beyond your ability to say it, where would you point me in the Constitution for support for the underlying notion?
33 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - You know, it is my belief, as a governor of a State, that collective bargaining is a right and something that has served this Country with extraordinary...
1 sec.	Gowdy, Trey - U.S. Representative, [R] South Carolina Are there exceptions?
2 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - We are allowed to organize.
1 sec.	Gowdy, Trey - U.S. Representative, [R] South Carolina Are there exceptions?
2 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - Not that I can think of.
1 sec.	Gowdy, Trey - U.S. Representative, [R] South Carolina Law enforcement?
6 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - I thin law enforcement should be able to collectively bargain just like anybody else. They have in our State and it has had great results.
25 sec.	Gowdy, Trey - U.S. Representative, [R] South Carolina In my State of South Carolina, we laid off prosecutors, law enforcement officers, and teachers; we furloughed them for five days last year because we...
6 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - We actually did move our courts from a five-day week to a four-day week. I would not furlough --
5 sec.	Gowdy, Trey - U.S. Representative, [R] South Carolina Your Federal courts or State? Because the Federal judges have always been on a four-day week.
1 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - We have noticed. Our State judges.
3 sec.	Gowdy, Trey - U.S. Representative, [R] South Carolina I see my time is up. Thank you.
6 sec.	Gosar, Paul - U.S. Representative, [R] Arizona I thank the member. Acknowledge my colleague, Mr. Tierney, from Massachusetts.
25 sec.	Tierney, John - U.S. Representative, [D] Massachusetts Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, governors, for being here today. Governor Shumlin, let me just ask you. When you were trying to resolve your fiscal...
1 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - No, Congressman Tierney, that is not what I led with.
16 sec.	Tierney, John - U.S. Representative, [D] Massachusetts Okay. I just think that is a point worth making. But let me also ask you what percentage of your annual State government spending is the contributions...
24 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - It is about 4 percent, and I think it is important that we remember that. When I talk about the real challenges of governor having to balance a budget,...
7 sec.	Tierney, John - U.S. Representative, [D] Massachusetts Governor Walker, what percentage of your State spending is related to the pensions account?
5 sec.	Governor Walker, - If you look overall -- and I don’t have the exact percentage off the top of my head, but --
1 sec.	Tierney, John - U.S. Representative, [D] Massachusetts Well, let me ask you this --
1 sec.	Governor Walker, - -- but I can give you the numbers --
5 sec.	Tierney, John - U.S. Representative, [D] Massachusetts I prefer you give me the percentage, but if you don’t know that, is it significantly more or less than the 4 percent --
11 sec.	Governor Walker, - Well, the total budget for the next biennial is about $60 billion. The total amount of savings that we have from the reforms we put in is 1.4 for the...
14 sec.	Tierney, John - U.S. Representative, [D] Massachusetts You don’t choose to answer the question. Look, the National Association of State Retirement Administrators says that less than 3 percent of all State...
	Governor Shumlin, - That is correct.
3 sec.	Tierney, John - U.S. Representative, [D] Massachusetts Governor Walker, do you want to make an opinion one way or the other or pass on it because you --
3 sec.	Governor Walker, - Again, I can follow up and give you the percentage based on the numbers.
19 sec.	Tierney, John - U.S. Representative, [D] Massachusetts I would appreciate it if you would do that. Thank you. We talked just a second, Governor Shumlin, about the defined benefit versus the defined contribution...
1 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - Risk and cost.
5 sec.	Tierney, John - U.S. Representative, [D] Massachusetts And they both go more heavily onto the shoulders of the employees, correct?
2 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - And the taxpayers.
19 sec.	Tierney, John - U.S. Representative, [D] Massachusetts And basically, generally, in your State and I think in others, that when this original situation was set up, that was part of the bargaining process,...
1 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - That is the promise that was made.
4 sec.	Tierney, John - U.S. Representative, [D] Massachusetts Okay. So it was the employer making that deal, as well as the employee.
1 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - That is correct.
3 sec.	Tierney, John - U.S. Representative, [D] Massachusetts Seems like a fair deal to you, fair thing to negotiate?
1 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - Yes.
7 sec.	Tierney, John - U.S. Representative, [D] Massachusetts Let me ask both of you, if I could, on that. Do either of you ask for the authority for bankruptcy for your respective States?
2 sec.	Governor Walker, - No.
1 sec.	Tierney, John - U.S. Representative, [D] Massachusetts Governor Shumlin?
	Governor Shumlin, - No.
8 sec.	Tierney, John - U.S. Representative, [D] Massachusetts Okay. Do either of you believe that a bankruptcy court is better able to overcome political differences than the political process in your State, governors...
1 sec.	Governor Walker, - No.
2 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - No.
6 sec.	Tierney, John - U.S. Representative, [D] Massachusetts Do either of you think that the bankruptcy court is better able to restore fiscal stability in your respective States?
	Governor Walker, - No.
1 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - No.
5 sec.	Tierney, John - U.S. Representative, [D] Massachusetts And do either of you think that the bankruptcy court would be a better manager of your State’s finances?
1 sec.	Governor Walker, - No.
1 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - No.
42 sec.	Tierney, John - U.S. Representative, [D] Massachusetts Okay. So you both agree with the letter that Governor McGuire, who is a Democrat from Washington, and Governor Heineman, who is a Republican from Nebraska,...
3 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - That is the NGA’s position and I support it.
2 sec.	Tierney, John - U.S. Representative, [D] Massachusetts Governor Walker?
1 sec.	Governor Walker, - I agree.
4 sec.	Tierney, John - U.S. Representative, [D] Massachusetts Thank you. I yield back. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
47 sec.	Cummings, Elijah - U.S. Representative, [D] Maryland Would the gentleman yield? Would the gentleman yield? Let’s go back to you, Governor Shumlin. You know, you were talking about the maple syrup and whatever...
14 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - I appreciate your comment. Obviously, respect for our firefighters, for our police officers, for the folks that risk their lives every day, for the folks...
7 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California [Presiding] The gentleman from Arizona, Mr. Gowdy. I am sorry, the gentleman from Arizona, Dr. Gosar.
30 sec.	Gosar, Paul - U.S. Representative, [R] Arizona Thank you. I want to get back to our original topic here, about State and municipal debt. We are not talking apples to apples in your States. Let me get...
7 sec.	Governor Walker, - You know, I am an expert on the cheese in our States, not the apples.
4 sec.	Gosar, Paul - U.S. Representative, [R] Arizona Okay. Well, apples and cheese go along with wine and maple syrup.
1 sec.	Governor Walker, - Yes, that is true.
26 sec.	Gosar, Paul - U.S. Representative, [R] Arizona But there is a difference. So my link here is that I am coming back to the basic core problem with all States is the Federal mandate, and things that...
10 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - Well, yes, frankly, but you need to define what we mean by flexibility, because my fear is, as we have this --
3 sec.	Gosar, Paul - U.S. Representative, [R] Arizona Well, part of -- I think you are going there.
17 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - If I can just finish what we were saying. As we get a little bit towards the next budget discussion is that flexibility means we are going to leave the...
36 sec.	Gosar, Paul - U.S. Representative, [R] Arizona Well, and I understand, because with the unfunded mandate there is this hidden cost that no one wants to talk about, and that is for that Federal law...
13 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - You know, I think that is an oversimplification. I think the budget challenges in the States are derived from the worst recession in American history...
23 sec.	Gosar, Paul - U.S. Representative, [R] Arizona Oh, I have to stop you there, because didn’t we also have a problem with the Federal Government in that? Didn’t the Federal Government establish itself...
6 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - All right, but I would actually argue that if we want to get into that, that it was the lack of regulation --
	Gosar, Paul - U.S. Representative, [R] Arizona Thank you.
1 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - -- of Wall Street that led us to the crisis.
21 sec.	Gosar, Paul - U.S. Representative, [R] Arizona And that is government. Once again, government problems, and coming from the Federal Government. But what I am trying to get back to is it is not an oversimplification,...
5 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - I think the Federal Government should keep its promises to the States.
4 sec.	Gosar, Paul - U.S. Representative, [R] Arizona And are you prepared to honor those promises to communities?
2 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - Absolutely.
19 sec.	Gosar, Paul - U.S. Representative, [R] Arizona Okay. So when we are talking about health care and corrections, I am having a problem here on where this unfunded mandate is coming from, because we constantly...
9 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - Well, you know, it isn’t the mandates. We don’t have Federal mandates standing in our way in the way of corrections that are really a budget challenge....
21 sec.	Gosar, Paul - U.S. Representative, [R] Arizona Wait a minute. I have a famous sheriff out in my neck of the woods and the Federal Government is breathing down his neck and telling him, yes, you can...
3 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - I don’t see it as a cost driver in my State budget.
4 sec.	Gosar, Paul - U.S. Representative, [R] Arizona Hmm. How about you, how do you feel, Governor Walker?
47 sec.	Governor Walker, - Well, there is no doubt that not only the mandates from the Federal Government to the State government, but many times the mandates that then go on to...
1 sec.	Gosar, Paul - U.S. Representative, [R] Arizona Thank you.
10 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California I thank the gentleman. The gentlelady from New York, Mrs. Maloney. Oh, she has returned. The gentlelady from California, Ms. Speier.
46 sec.	Speier, Karen Lorraine "Jackie" Jacqueline - U.S. Representative, [D] California Thank you, Mrs. Maloney and thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you both for your participation here today. I don’t know that I would have done this...
19 sec.	Governor Walker, - I haven’t seen that statement before, but I know one of your colleagues asked me earlier who pays, for example, for the pensions and things of that...
16 sec.	Speier, Karen Lorraine "Jackie" Jacqueline - U.S. Representative, [D] California Well, these are quite facts about Wisconsin’s budget repair legislation. The second point is respecting the public trust. When teachers choose not to...
21 sec.	Governor Walker, - Lavish contracts? No. Again, you weren’t here earlier, but I was asked about that as well, and I pointed out, to me, this is not about -- I forgot which...
7 sec.	Speier, Karen Lorraine "Jackie" Jacqueline - U.S. Representative, [D] California Let me ask you this. Excuse me for reclaiming my time. Do you think the teachers in Wisconsin are paid adequately?
8 sec.	Governor Walker, - If we could set up a system where we rewarded based on performance and merit, I would be even willing to pay more.
	Speier, Karen Lorraine "Jackie" Jacqueline - U.S. Representative, [D] California Well, let me just --
3 sec.	Governor Walker, - But we don’t have that system right now; we have one solely based on seniority.
2 sec.	Speier, Karen Lorraine "Jackie" Jacqueline - U.S. Representative, [D] California Do you know what the starting teacher’s salary is in Wisconsin?
8 sec.	Governor Walker, - Starting? Depends on the district. I know, for example, the Milwaukee public school system, the total compensation package for an average employee is...
12 sec.	Speier, Karen Lorraine "Jackie" Jacqueline - U.S. Representative, [D] California Well, the starting teacher’s salary in Wisconsin is $25,222, and Wisconsin ranks 49th in the Nation in terms of starting salaries for teachers.
13 sec.	Governor Walker, - And the reason for that is because that talks about starting salaries, not total benefit packages. So, for example, if you are in a school district like...
11 sec.	Speier, Karen Lorraine "Jackie" Jacqueline - U.S. Representative, [D] California You are 49th in the Nation in what you pay your school teachers. Now, let’s talk about contributions. How much have you received in contributions from...
7 sec.	Governor Walker, - From the Koch brothers? None directly that I know of. There are probably other groups that supported us, but I don’t know what the total is.
5 sec.	Speier, Karen Lorraine "Jackie" Jacqueline - U.S. Representative, [D] California Well, I am under the impression you received $43,000 from the Koch brothers during your gubernatorial campaign.
4 sec.	Governor Walker, - Could be. I had 50,000 contributors. I couldn’t tell you who they were.
5 sec.	Speier, Karen Lorraine "Jackie" Jacqueline - U.S. Representative, [D] California Did you take the phone calls of all those 50,000 contributors when you were in the middle of that crisis?
1 sec.	Governor Walker, - I talked to a whole lot of people every day.
32 sec.	Speier, Karen Lorraine "Jackie" Jacqueline - U.S. Representative, [D] California All right. Let’s move on to Governor Shumlin. I was really impressed by one of the statements, many of the statements you made, but one in particular,...
8 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - Sure. And I want to be careful, because if I misspoke, I want to be careful here. I hope I didn’t say it was a figment of the imagination.
2 sec.	Speier, Karen Lorraine "Jackie" Jacqueline - U.S. Representative, [D] California No, it was my term.
35 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - Okay. What they said was, and in meeting with rating agencies that I just went through, and governors do that, we go down and make sure that our bond...
29 sec.	Speier, Karen Lorraine "Jackie" Jacqueline - U.S. Representative, [D] California Now, in much of our discussion today about defined contribution, what is missing is the fact that the taxpayers have to pay 50 percent of that pension...
38 sec.	Governor Shumlin, - That is correct. And another point that is important to remember is, which I mentioned earlier, but I want to make sure it is emphasized, that in this...
2 sec.	Speier, Karen Lorraine "Jackie" Jacqueline - U.S. Representative, [D] California Thank you. I yield back.
8 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California I thank the gentlelady and I thank Governor Walker and Governor Shumlin for being here.
3 sec.	Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York [Remarks made off microphone.]
3 sec.	Walberg, Tim - U.S. Representative, [R] Michigan [Presiding.] I am up next.
4 sec.	Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York [Remarks made off microphone.]
1 min.	Walberg, Tim - U.S. Representative, [R] Michigan I accept that. No, we are not closing. I am just allowing the Chairman a vote opportunity in Judiciary Committee, as I was voting and chairing a subcommittee....
29 sec.	Governor Walker, - Yes, we have seen that in the past, and we saw the opposite of that two years ago when my predecessor and the legislature moved to pass a budget repair...
	Walberg, Tim - U.S. Representative, [R] Michigan Build the economy.
	Governor Walker, - Absolutely.
36 sec.	Walberg, Tim - U.S. Representative, [R] Michigan Well, right now Michigan, as you know, in talking with our new governor, we are at a $5.7 billion budget shortfall. Governor Snyder is taking some aggressive...
1 min.	Governor Walker, - I would have to look specifically at what Rick is proposing there in terms of oversight of the local government. I will tell you, though, this goes to...
32 sec.	Walberg, Tim - U.S. Representative, [R] Michigan I appreciate that. Well, I was going to ask both governors, but let me continue my questioning here at this point. What steps can, Governor Walker, or...
1 min.	Governor Walker, - Well, to me, asking the taxpayers, and me as a Federal taxpayer, which obviously we are reminded of this week, asking me to bail out another State isn’t...
8 sec.	Walberg, Tim - U.S. Representative, [R] Michigan I thank the Governor and now turn to Ms. Maloney. And I thank you for putting up with the confusion that went on there.
43 sec.	Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York Well, thank you and thank you for your very thoughtful questions. Welcome, Governor. I thank you for your testimony and for being with us here today....
33 sec.	Governor Walker, - No, because I believe fundamentally if what we have heard said over and over again was a fundamental right, you all in Congress would be acting on it...
1 sec.	Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York Okay.
6 sec.	Governor Walker, - But collective bargaining itself is not a fundamental right. Rights come from the Constitution, and nowhere in the Constitution does that clearly define...
2 min.	Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York Well, many of the criticism does come from unions, but I have a stack of editorials here from major papers across the Country, and I would like to go...
19 sec.	Governor Walker, - Sure. Thank you for your question. I would point out two things. One, just a factual error that a couple of those papers alluded to and I mentioned before....
6 sec.	Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York But, Governor, this was not referring to those specifics --
2 sec.	Governor Walker, - No, I will answer your other point --
38 sec.	Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York But may I finish? Because my time is expiring. I believe the point that they made in these editorials is the same point that many of us on this panel...
1 sec.	Governor Walker, - Sure.
8 sec.	Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York Instead, it appears very much to me and to others to be ideologically and politically motivated.
29 sec.	Governor Walker, - Per your original question, I would say many of those same voices said the same thing about Mitch Daniels in 2005. After his time in office, after people...
7 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California [Presiding.] I thank the gentlelady. We now recognize the former chairman of the full Committee, the gentleman from Indiana, Mr. Burton, for five minutes.
2 sec.	Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York Mr. Chairman, may I put these editorials in the record?
9 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California Without objection, so ordered. Additionally, the earlier unanimous consent for Mr. Connolly is accepted, so his will also be placed in the record.
7 sec.	Burton, Danny "Dan" Lee - U.S. Representative, [R] Indiana Governor, you can’t run out on me now; I was going to say something nice about you.
3 sec.	Unidentified Speaker, - Congressman Burton, he is going to be right back, and we just --
2 sec.	Issa, Darrell - U.S. Representative, [R] California Ladies and gentlemen, we are going to take a two minute recess.
7 sec.	Recess., -