| 00:01:03 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IS, INDEED. >> AND SERVED AS
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| 00:01:05 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE CO-DIRECTER OF THE FIRST AMENDMENT SCHOOLS PROGRAM. PRIOR TO THAT, SAM KNOWS OF WHAT HE SPEAKS, HE TAUGHT FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS IN NEW YORK BOTH...
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| 00:01:58 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THANK YOU. >> RON COLLINS
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| 00:01:59 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IS AN OLD FRIEND OF MINE, SO THAT'S ALL I'M GOING TO SAY ABOUT THAT. [LAUGHTER] NO. RON IS THE HAROLD F. SHELFMAN SCHOLAR AT THE UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON...
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| 00:04:26 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
REALLY STARTED PERCOLATING IN MY BRAIN ABOUT 40 YEARS AGO. IT WAS IN 1972, I WAS A LAW STUDENT. AND WE'D READ THIS CASE ABOUT A YOUNG MAN WHO'D BEEN...
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| 00:07:28 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ON TO THAT, TOO, I THINK THAT'S AN INTERESTING WAY TO PUT IT. AND IN A WAY WHEN I THINK ABOUT OUR GIVE AND TAKE OVER THIS PROJECT, IT'S, YOU'RE THE...
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| 00:09:15 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THROW A TAIL ON THAT KITE FOR THOSE OF US WHO TEACH PARTICULARLY IN LAW SCHOOLS, IT'S AMAZING, LAW SCHOOLS QUITE OFTEN -- HERE I'M GENERALIZING, OF...
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| 00:10:27 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
YOU TALKED ABOUT GETTING TO KNOW THE PEOPLE BEHIND THE CASES AND THE STORIES IN THE LAW. PERHAPS THE MOST PROMINENT PERSON IN THE BOOK OR AT LEAST SEEMS...
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| 00:11:34 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SOMETHING ABOUT LAST NIGHT, RON? [LAUGHTER] >> BUT THE, BUT THE IDEA
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| 00:11:42 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IF YOU DEFEND FIRST AMENDMENT PRINCIPLES, YOU HAVE TO BE WILLING TO DEFEND NOT ONLY HEROS, BUT VILLAINS. YOU HAVE TO BE WILLING TO DEFEND THE FIRST...
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| 00:14:09 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
FINAL OPINION, AND HE DIED JUSTS AFTER IT DELIVERY -- JUST WEEKS AFTER ITS DELIVERY ON CONSTITUTION DAY. BUT PART OF THE REASON THAT BLACK PROVIDES...
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| 00:17:09 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THIS WHOLE COUNTERCULTURE, YOU KNOW THE CHARGE AGAINST, IF YOU WILL, AGAINST AMERICAN VALUES, AND WHO'S ONE THE PEOPLE LEADING IT? CHARLES RE IRK SCH,...
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| 00:18:52 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
FOCUS JUST ABOUT JUSTICE BLACK BECAUSE THE BOOK IS ABOUT MANY OTHER PEOPLE, BUT DID AT ANY OTHER TIME JUSTICE BLACK HIMSELF RECOGNIZE THIS DIFFERENCE...
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| 00:19:06 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DOCTRINES TO PROTECT SPEECH, NOT CONDUCT, THAT SORT OF THING, BUT, YOU KNOW, TO SAY WEARING AN ARM BAND IS CONDUCT, WHAT WE CALL SYMBOLIC EXPRESSION,...
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| 00:19:29 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IS JUST THIS IS A REMINDER OF WHY WE ALL -- WE ALL NEED A COMMUNITY TO FULLY UNDERSTAND OURSELVES. YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES IT'S HARD TO GAIN THE PERSPECTIVE...
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| 00:20:03 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
NOT ONLY WAS HUGO A GREAT AUTHOR OF THIS AND PROTECTING FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS WITH ALL HIS SHORTCOMINGS, BUT HE WAS A VERY PATRIOTIC AMERICAN WITH...
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| 00:20:33 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
A BOOK OF STORIES, IF YOU WILL, ABOUT THIS HAPPENED TO BE ALL ABOUT FREE SPEECH AND FREE EXPRESSION, AND THEN IN MANY CASES THAT SHAPED THAT. I'M...
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| 00:20:54 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
FIRST. >> H
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| 00:20:56 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BEFORE -- [LAUGHTER] >> SO IT'S TOUGH TO CHOOSE,
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| 00:21:06 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BUT BENJAMIN GITLO TALKING ABOUT REVOLUTION; RIGHT? 1968, 2011, LET'S GO BACK TO 1919, THE YEAR AFTER THE END OF THE FIRST WORLD WAR, EUGENE DEBS ...
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| 00:22:48 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THERE? >> YEAH. >> BECAUSE OF
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| 00:22:51 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THAT ASSASSINATION, McKINLY DIDN'T NOMINATE THE PERSON TO THE SUPREME COURT HE PLANNED TO, AND WHEN ROOSEVELT CAME IN, HE MADE HIS VOTE. >> HOW DO WE...
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| 00:23:09 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AS A FOOT NOTE IN THE BOOK? [LAUGHTER] THAT'S THE FIRST TIME I'M HEARING THAT. [LAUGHTER] THERE WAS A LAW IN THE BOOKS IN NEW YORK THAT SAID YOU CAN'T...
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| 00:25:29 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TRUE. [LAUGHTER] >>
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| 00:25:30 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
YEAH. I REMEMBER WHEN I FIRST LEARNED THAT IT WAS SHOCKING TO ME THAT IT WASN'T UNTIL WELL INTO THE 0TH CENTURY THAT THE FIRST AMENDMENT APPLIED TO...
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| 00:26:30 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ONE MORE THING. IT WASN'T THE PEOPLE AT THE TIME JUST FEARED HIS WRITINGS. THERE WAS A LOT MORE CONTEXT THAT WAS GOING ON. THERE WERE BOMBINGS GOING...
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| 00:26:46 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IN 1919 I BELIEVE THERE WERE OVER 30 DIFFERENT MAIL BOMBS SENT TO KEY PUBLIC FIGURES ACROSS THE COUNTRY AS PART OF THIS WAVE OF ANARCHY AND REVOLUTION,...
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| 00:28:17 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
INTERESTING IS THERE'S SO MUCH THAT'S INTERESTING ABOUT THE STORY AND ANY LAW STUDENT CAN GO AND READ CASES AND NEVER BE EXPOSED TO ANY OF THIS, BUT...
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| 00:31:00 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SEEM TO BE A COMMON POLITICAL ORIGIN TO THE VILLAINS OF FREE SPEECH IF YOU WILL? THE THREATS TO FREE EXPRESSION BECAUSE THERE WERE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO...
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| 00:31:35 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
FEDERALIST, ANTIFEDERALIST, WIG, DEMOCRAT, REPUBLICAN, TEA PARTY, WHATEVER, AT SOME POINT OR ANOTHER IN HISTORY, WE CAN FIND EXAMPLES OF PEOPLE, IF...
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| 00:32:21 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CAREFUL NOW, REMEMBER WHERE YOU ARE. [LAUGHTER] >> WE'RE IN
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| 00:32:31 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
VIRGINIA. >>
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| 00:32:32 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE CRADLE. >> OH, MY
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| 00:32:34 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
GOODNESS. [LAUGHTER] LET ME PUT IS THIS WAY. HE RETURNS THE FAVOR. [LAUGHTER] YOU KNOW, THIS IS, YOU KNOW, LINCOLN DURING THE CIVIL WAR AND PEOPLE HAVE...
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| 00:34:11 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
QUESTION MAKES ME THINK ABOUT IT IN A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT WAY IS THROUGHOUT THE BOOK THERE ARE BOTH HEROS AND VILLAINS. IT'S SOME PEOPLE WHO APPEAR ...
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| 00:36:32 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
A COUPLE THINGS. SAM MENTIONED HIS CASE, AND BEFORE I DO JUST A QUICK TALE, THAT IN HIGH SCHOOLS ACROSS THIS NATION, A NUMBER OF STUDENTS ARE TAUGHT...
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| 00:41:02 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE IDEA OF THE VILLAINS, AND YOU TOUCHED ON THE IDEA OF HEROS IN THE FIRST AMENDMENT, OF COURSE, THE PROBLEM WITH HEROS, CALLING HEROS OF THE FIRST...
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| 00:41:52 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IT'S SOMETIMES IT'S A LITTLE MORE COMPLICATED. FOR EXAMPLE, YOU HAVE WILLIAM COONSLER ARGUING THE FLAG BURNING CASE. I'M SURE HE WAS HAPPY, YOU KNOW,...
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| 00:42:13 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DARRELL. >>
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| 00:42:14 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OH, YEAH, THAT'S TRUE. HE WAS ONE OF THE TRIAL LAWYERS AND CLARENCE DARRELL AND THE OTHER LAWYERS TOLD GITLO NOT TO TAKE THE STAND, AND HE IGNORED THEIR...
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| 00:45:00 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
MY FAVORITE CHAPTER IS THE CHAPTER ABOUT -- AND THE WHAT IS THE RIGHT OF ASSOCIATION WHICH CAME INTO BEING AS A LEGAL PRINCIPLE BECAUSE OF THE CASES...
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| 00:47:49 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
QUICK ANSWER. THERE IS A MAN NAME EDWARD CLEARY, A JUDGE IN MINNESOTA, A PUBLIC DEFENDER IN THE 1990S, AND HE IS ASKED TO DEFEND SOMEBODY WHO BURNT...
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| 00:48:22 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
1992? >>
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| 00:48:24 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
RIGHT. DEFENDED THAT RIGHT. IN THE UNITED STATES THERE'S MANY COUNTRIES WHO PROHIBIT, AND PERHAPS RIGHTFULLY SO, HATE SPEECH. IN THE UNITED STATES...
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| 00:49:59 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SAY GOD BLESS AMERICA, BOTH SIDES OF THOSE STORIES. >>ANOTHER
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| 00:50:07 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
GROUP OF MOTORCYCLE RIDERS THAT GO TO THE PROTESTS AND BLOCK ANY SIGHT OF THE FEMME'S BY THEIR -- PHELPS BY THEIR MUCH GREATER NUMBER OF PEOPLE, AND...
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| 00:50:39 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BEST METHOD BECAUSE OTHER COUNTRIES, GERMANY AND OTHER COUNTRIES AND FRANCE HAVE DIFFERENT WAYS OF LOOKING AT THIS, BUT IT'S OUR TRADITION, AND I'M VERY...
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| 00:51:14 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CIVIL FRICTION. THE ONLY WAY IT REALLY CAN SURVIVE IS IF WE BUILD IN OUR -- OURSELVES THE SKILL SET AND CAPACITY TO BE COMFORTABLE WITH THE DISCOMFORT...
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| 00:51:45 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IN FACT, YOU MAY HAVE ANSWERED IT, BUT I'M SURE YOU CAN HAVE ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF MY LAST QUESTION BEFORE I OPEN IT UP TO YOU FOLKS TO ASK. >> WE URGE...
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| 00:51:56 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
EXERCISE YOUR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT. [LAUGHTER] >> WHICH IS WHAT ARE
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| 00:52:01 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE, IF YOU WILL, WHAT ARE THE LESSONS, THE THEMES YOU HOPE SOMEBODY HERE READS THE BOOK WILL TAKE FROM IT? >> SEE, I DON'T KNOW
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| 00:52:12 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WHERE TO START. >> THAT IT'S A
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| 00:52:17 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
REMARKABLE STARTING POINT TO HAVE CREATED A SOCIETY BASED ON THE REVOLUTIONARY NOTION THAT ALL HUMAN BEINGS, NOT ALL CITIZENS, HUH HUMAN BEINGS ARE...
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| 00:54:11 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE NEXT TIME YOU HEAR AN IDEA THAT OFFENDS YOU, THE NEXT TIME YOU HEAR SOMEBODY SAYING SOMETHING THAT YOU FIND OUTRAGEOUS, TAKE A DEEP BREATH, PAUSE,...
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| 00:55:56 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
YOU, BOTH, VERY MUCH. [APPLAUSE] >> NOW THE AUDIENCE CAN BE
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| 00:56:04 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE MODERATORS. I ASK YOU TO RAISE YOUR HAND AND WAIT UNTIL THE MICROPHONE GETTING TO YOU TO ASK THE QUESTION. BEFORE WE TAKE THE FIRST QUESTION, NORMALLY...
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| 00:57:00 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
RELIEVED. I THOUGHT WE WERE GOING TO GET THE REWARD. [LAUGHTER] >> I INVITE YOU TO VISIT
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| 00:57:12 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE WEBSITE, WWW.TJCENTER.ORG, TO SEE THE 2011 AWARDS. STARTING HERE IN THE FRONT, AND THE MRCH IS COMING TO YOU. >> THANK
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| 00:57:25 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
YOU. A COMMENTED AND A QUESTION ABOUT BOSTON. IN THE EARLY 1770S A YOUNG LAWYER IN BOSTON DEFENDED THE BRITISH SOLDERS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE BOSTON MASSACRE....
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| 00:57:59 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WE DO -- >> I'M GOING TO WRITE THAT
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| 00:58:02 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DOWN, WHAT'S THE TITLE? >> "THE GIVEN
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| 00:58:10 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DAY". >> NO, WE
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| 00:58:11 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DON'T. THERE'S ANOTHER 300 PAGES LITERALLY ON THE CUTTING ROOM FLOOR, AND THAT MAY WELL BE THE SEQUEL TO THIS, SO WE KIND OF HAD TO, YOU KNOW, BUT MR....
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| 00:58:35 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WITH IT, BUT HE -- >> [INAUDIBLE] >> BUT, YEAH, HE DID LET
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| 00:58:40 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IT HAPPEN, AND, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE FEDERALISTS DID TO THE ANTI-FEDERALISTS
|
| 00:58:45 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IS JUST -- >> [INAUDIBLE] >>
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| 00:58:53 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
YEAH -- >> NEXT
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| 00:58:54 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
QUESTION. >> HOW ABOUT OVER HERE IN
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| 00:58:56 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
FRON WORKING OUR WAY BACK. >> FIST I HAVE A COMMENT AND
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| 00:59:01 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
A QUESTION. THE COMMENT DEALS WITH YOUR LAYOUT OF THE FRONT COVER. I NOTICED THAT YOU HAVE SOME OF THE TEXT OF YOUR COVER OR THE TITLE IN BOLD, AND...
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| 00:59:23 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THAT. IT'S A FIRST AMENDMENT LESSON BELIEVE IT OR NOT. IT DEPENDS HOW YOU LOOK AT IT. IF YOU STAND AT A DISTANCE THE WORD THAT IS PROM INNOCENT IS FREE....
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| 01:00:01 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
I'VE ATTENDED A NUMBER OF EVENTS HERE TOO IN THIS CHAMBER, TEN A SEEMS TO ME A LOT OF THIS CONSTITUTIONAL TALK IS ACADEMIC BECAUSE IN PRACTICE, DEMOCRACY...
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| 01:00:32 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
JUST, AGAIN, HOW YOU LOOK AT IT. I RESPECT YOUR RIGHT TO DISSENT FROM MY VIEW. IT'S CERTAINLY NOT NEW GOING BACK WELL OVER A CENTURY, AND I THINK EVERY...
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| 01:02:06 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THAT POINT, PART OF THE REASON I CONCENTRATE MY WORK IN SCHOOLS IS TO YOUR OBSERVATION ABOUT THE GRADUAL EROSION OF OUR CAPACITY TO REALLY BREATHE...
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| 01:03:22 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
PREACH THE ORIGINALIST GOSPEL WOULD BE MINDFUL OF THAT. [LAUGHTER] WE HAVE OTHER QUESTIONS. >> YES, THEN
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| 01:03:31 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
YOU. >> FREE SEEMS TO BE A
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| 01:03:34 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
RATHER RELATIVE TERM, AND I WONDERED IN WRITING THIS BOOK IF YOU HAD A DEFINITION OF FREEDOM IN MIND BECAUSE A FEW TIMES RONALD, YOU INTERCHANGED THE...
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| 01:03:59 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IN TURN. FREEDOM IS JUST ANOTHER WORD FOR -- REMEMBER THAT LINE, YEAH, I MEAN, FREEDOM, LIBERTY, I THINK I'M COMFORTABLE USING THEM AT LEAST NOW INTERCHANGEABLY....
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| 01:05:30 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ALREADY SHOWN MY HAND IN THE WAY THAT I WOULD ANSWER THE QUESTION WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE FREE BEGINS NOT FROM THE OUTSIDE IN, NOT FROM WHAT WE DO,...
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| 01:07:25 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
QUESTIONINGS. RIGHT BEHIND, YEAH, YEAH. >> JUST WANTED TO ASK YOU
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| 01:07:31 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ON THE BOYS AND GIRLS IN SCHOOL, IF THEY GET HARASSED AND GANG UP ON THEM, IS THERE -- HOP NOR, NOT HONOR, BUT IS THERE, ARE THEY BEING HA RASED TO...
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| 01:07:59 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TO BE -- FORGIVE ME FOR BEING BRIEF BECAUSE WE'RE GETTING LATE AND OTHER PEOPLE HAVE QUESTIONS, BUT THE BULLYING IS A LOT OF FIRST AMENDMENT ISSUES,...
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| 01:08:48 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
1 -- IS THERE'S A CLEAR DISTINCTION AND ESSENTIAL THAT SCHOOL LEADERS SEE IT BETWEEN THE FACT THEIR PRIMARY RESPONSIBILITY IS TO MAINTAIN A SAFE LEARNING...
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| 01:09:25 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
HI, THANK YOU. I WAS STRUCK BEFORE. I THINK IT WAS BEFORE RONALD COLLINS' COMMENT ABOUT THE WIFE IN THE CASE AND HOW WOULD SHE FEEL ABOUT IT. IT SEEMS...
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| 01:10:15 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
YES. >> WE THINK SO, BUT YOU HAVE
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| 01:10:17 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TO TELL US. [LAUGHTER] >> THAT WAS
|
| 01:10:19 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE INTENTION. >> NO, NO, THEY
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| 01:10:22 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DO. >> IT'S THE HUMAN ISSUES
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| 01:10:24 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AS WELL. >> THAT'S
|
| 01:10:25 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
RIGHT. >> YOU KNOW, WHEN
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| 01:10:28 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WE DISCI'SED POLITICS AND PROSE BOOKSTORE, A WONDERFUL INDEPENDENT BOOKSTORE, AND A SHOUT OUT FOR INDEPENDENT BOOKSTORES, I TALKED ABOUT THE CASE, AND...
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| 01:11:30 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SIR? >> WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE
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| 01:11:32 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BETWEEN PROTECTIVE FREE SPEECH AND HATE SPEECH, AND WHAT ARE THE RULES OF MAKING THAT CALL? >> BASICALLY IN VERY SHORT,
|
| 01:11:40 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE COURT HAD A CROSS BURNING CASE OUT OF VIRGINIA. >> WE HAVE A CHAPTER ON
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| 01:11:45 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THIS. >> YEAH, THERE'S A CHAPTER
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| 01:11:47 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ON THIS. FIRST OF ALL, YOU CAN'T TRESPASS. IF I BURNED O CROSS ON YOUR FRONT YARD, AND, YOU KNOW, THAT ACT OF TRESPASSING, YOU CANNOT THREATEN SOMEBODY,...
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| 01:12:41 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IT QUICKLY IS I THINK THIS IS RIGHT THAT EVERY HATE SPEECH LAW IN THIS COUNTRY AND WHAT THE EXASHT WE TALK -- EXARPT -- CHAPTER ABOUT IT AND THE HATE...
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| 01:13:44 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
QUESTION. >> SO AT WHAT
|
| 01:13:47 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
POINT WOULD EACH OF YOU DRAW THE LINE? IS THERE A POINT AT WHICH YOU WOULD FEAR A FIRST AMENDMENT ISSUE? >> THERE ARE
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| 01:13:57 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
PROBABLY MANY POINTS. THERE ARE MANY POINTS THAT AS A PARENT, ALTHOUGH THE FIRST AMENDMENT DOESN'T APPLY TO ME IN THE RELATIONSHIP WITH MY SON, BUT...
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| 01:15:44 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WAS VERY NICE. I THINK IN SOME RESPECTS THE FACTS OF THE PHELPS'S CASE IS CLOSE AS ANY I'VE SEEN TO PUTTING A LINE, BUT I THINK BLACK AND OTHERS BEFORE...
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NOTE: The transcript for this program was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.