| 00:00:31 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BURSA'S =- VERSUS WHITING. >> THERE WAS A QUESTION OF HOW TO REGULATE WORKER AUTHORIZATION, AND IT WAS CONVERTED INTO A CORE
|
| 00:00:47 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CONCERN OF IMMIGRATION POLICY BY THE PASSING OF THE IMMIGRATION REFORM AND CONTROL ACT. THIS COURT HAS CHARACTERIZED THAT CHANGE AS PROVIDING A COMPREHENSIVE...
|
| 00:02:22 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
INTENT TO HIRE AN UNAUTHORIZED WORKERS? ISN'T THAT WHAT THE STATE STATUTES HERE REQUIRE? >> THE STATE STATUTE HAS TWO COMPONENTS. ONE IS KNOWING AND ONE...
|
| 00:02:37 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BUSINESS? SO LONG AS HE DOES NOT INTENTIONALLY HIGHER AND ON AUTHORIZED
|
| 00:02:42 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WORKER -- HIGHER UNAUTHORIZED WORKERS. >> IT IS NOT ALWAYS CLEAR PRECISELY WHO IS AND IS NOT AN AUTHORIZED WORKER.
|
| 00:02:55 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CONGRESS -- I AM NOT GOING TO DO WITH THIS PROBLEM IN THE GRANULATED WAY YOU ARE LOOKING AT IT, WHICH IS EACH OF THE INDIVIDUAL EMPLOYMENT DECISIONS....
|
| 00:03:47 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
YOU MIGHT USE RETICULATED PENALTIES OR ENFORCE THE FEDERAL LAW OURSELVES. BUT THEY DID ALLOW US TO ENFORCE THE LAW, THE IMMIGRATION LAW. IT ESSENTIALLY...
|
| 00:04:13 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WITH THE ARIZONA SCHEME, IS THAT THIS IS NOT A LICENSING LAW. THIS IS A WORKER AUTHORIZATION SANCTIONING LAW. >> WHEN I PICKED UP THIS BRIEF AND LOOKED...
|
| 00:04:28 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BUT IT REALLY IS NOT. YOUR BRIEF INDICATES -- YOU INDICATE WHAT FEDERAL LICENSING LAWS ARE. BUT I SEE NO LIMITATION ON WHAT THE STATE CAN DECIDE IF THE...
|
| 00:04:59 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IN SUPPLEMENTAL ENFORCEMENT -- ORDINARILY, IN ORDER TO SAY WHAT OUGHT TO HAVE BEEN IN THIS CONTEXT, IF YOU DEAL WITH A SITUATION WHERE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT...
|
| 00:05:58 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ENFORCE IT. OF COURSE NO ONE WOULD HAVE EXPECTED THAT. BUT WHAT ARIZONA SAYS HAS OCCURRED HERE IS THAT THE SCHEME IN PLACE HAS NOT BEEN ENFORCED IN ARIZONA...
|
| 00:06:41 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
1986. THAT IS WHEN THE PRE-EMPTION STANDPOINT WERE PUT IN PLACE. IF YOU LOOK AT THE STRUCTURE OF THIS PASSAGE -- IT IS NOT A SELF DEFINING CONCEPT....
|
| 00:07:52 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TERM. I THINK HERE IN THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA, EVERY BUSINESS HAS TO HAVE THE GENERAL OF BUSINESS LICENSE. IS THAT NOT RIGHT? >> THAT IS TRUE. >> IF...
|
| 00:08:15 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AGO SAYING IF YOU KNOWINGLY HIRE AN ILLEGAL ALIEN, YOUR GENERAL >> WHY IS IT SUDDENLY NOT A LICENSE BECAUSE THE STATE IMPOSES AN ADDITIONAL CONDITION?...
|
| 00:09:05 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE REALITY IS THERE IS NO
|
| 00:09:07 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
COMMON DEFINITION OF LICENSE. >> ACTUALLY, THERE IS. IT SEEMED TO ME WHEN I READ THIS, IT SOUNDED A LITTLE BIT FAMILIAR, AND WHOEVER
|
| 00:09:15 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WROTE IT, BUT IT OUT OF THE ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEDURE ACT. THIS IS AWFULLY CLOSE. >> I UNDERSTAND IT, AND I AGREE WITH THAT, BUT THE PROBLEM IS THAT...
|
| 00:09:30 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WITH RESPECT TO LICENSE. IT TALKS ABOUT LICENSING LAWS. >> THAT IS RIGHT. IT MIGHT HAVE MEANT SOMETHING DIFFERENT, BUT I READ
|
| 00:09:41 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE SEIU BRIEF, AND I THOUGHT THAT WAS INTERESTING. WHAT DID THAT MEAN? AND IF IT DID NOT MEAN THE APA DEFINITION, WHAT DID IT MEAN? >> IT DOES A GOOD...
|
| 00:10:05 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
HAS TREMENDOUS SIGNIFICANCE IN TERMS OF NARROWING THE AUTHORITY OF THE STATE. OBVIOUSLY, IN THE CONFORMING AMENDMENTS -- >> IT COULD HAVE NAMED THAT...
|
| 00:10:20 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IT SAID LICENSING GENERALLY. WHAT DID IT INTEND TO ADD TO THAT? BARBER'S LICENSES? PEDIATRICIANS LICENSES? I DO NOT THINK IT HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE...
|
| 00:10:40 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SITUATION WHERE SOMEBODY VIOLATES FEDERAL LAW -- USUALLY ON THE CRIMINAL SIDE -- AND A STATE LICENSING ENTITY FINDS OUT ABOUT A CONVICTION OF A FEDERAL...
|
| 00:11:05 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ABOUT AUTHORITY TO DO BUSINESS WITHIN A STATE, AS A LICENSE. IT IS A COMMON EXPRESSION. MAYBE YOU WILL PERSUADE ME OTHERWISE, BUT I HAVE NO DOUBT THAT...
|
| 00:12:10 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TO DO BUSINESS. IT JUST GIVES YOU THE RIGHT TO EXIST. YOU MAY WELL NEED A SEPARATE DOCUMENT. >> YOU DO NOT NEED THE KIND OF A DOCUMENT THAT AN OUT-OF-STATE...
|
| 00:12:25 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
|
| 00:12:28 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THINK IN COMMON USE OF THE TURN THINGS OF ARTICLES OF INCORPORATION OR CHARTER OR ANY SUCH DOCUMENTS AS LICENSING. >> COULD I JUST SPOKE IS THE QUESTIONING?...
|
| 00:12:46 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
APA DEFINITION OF LICENSING IS WHAT CONGRESS INTENDED OR NOT, BUT YOU DO NOT DISAGREE THAT CONGRESS AT LEAST INTENDED THAT IF SOMEONE VIOLATED THE FEDERAL...
|
| 00:14:26 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IN SECTION 115 OF THE STATUTE SPECIFICALLY SAYS ENFORCEMENT SHOULD BE UNIFORM, WHICH SUGGESTS TO ME THAT THIS OUGHT TO BE EXCLUSIVELY A FEDERAL INVESTIGATION...
|
| 00:14:52 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SHALL BE UNIFORM"? >> ENFORCEMENT OF THE LAWS SHALL BE UNIFORM. CONGRESS STATED THAT AS AN OVERARCHING PRINCIPLE. >> WHAT IS THE
|
| 00:15:02 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ASSUMED SITUATION WITH RESPECT TO ALL FEDERAL LAWS? ARE THEY APPLIED UNIFORMLY? >>
|
| 00:15:09 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
I THINK IT DEPENDS ON THE CIRCUMSTANCE. REMEMBER, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IMMIGRATION
|
| 00:15:16 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
POLICY AND IMMIGRATION LAW HERE. IN GENERAL, YOU WOULD EXPECT THAT TO BE PRETTY MUCH UNIFORM, BUT DECLINED HAD DECIDED THERE WERE SOME ELEMENTS, AND ...
|
| 00:15:39 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE POSITION THAT A RESTAURANT THAT EMPLOYEES, ILLEGAL ALIENS MAY LOSE ITS RESTAURANT, ITS LICENSE TO OPERATE, AND ANOTHER MAY TAKE A DIFFERENT POSITION....
|
| 00:15:58 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WITH CONGRESSIONAL INTENT. IT NEEDS TO GET A FULL SANCTION ON BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, AND JUST AN ADD-ON ON THE LICENSING SIDE. >> BUT THE UNIFORMITY...
|
| 00:16:14 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ADJUDICATION. YOU ARE SAYING WHAT IS SPECIFICALLY PRE-EMPTED IS THE RIGHT TO ADJUDICATE WHETHER SOMEONE HAS HIRED UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS, CORRECT? >> YES,...
|
| 00:16:34 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
I WITH RESPECT TO THE DEPARTMENT OF LABOR, WHICH USED TO ENGAGE IN ADJUDICATION AS WELL, IT SEEMS QUITE UNLIKELY TO GIVE THAT AUTHORITY TO THE STATES...
|
| 00:16:55 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THAT IT WAS DEPRIVED OF THE ABILITY TO DO BUSINESS BECAUSE OF A MISTAKE IN INTERPRETATION OF FEDERAL LAW, THAT THE PERSON HAVE HIGHER WAS NOT AN AUTHORIZED...
|
| 00:17:17 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TAKES. >> DOES THE STATE LAW BASIS NOT REFER TO THE FEDERAL LAW? >> IT TRACKS IT, BUT IT DOES NOT INCORPORATE
|
| 00:17:27 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IT. IT DOES NOT PURPORT TO BE APPLYING IT. IT IS THE SAME STANDARDS, BUT IT IS
|
| 00:17:32 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
STILL A MATTER OF STATE LAW. >> THANK YOU, COUNSEL. >> THANK YOU, MR. CHIEF JUSTICE, AND MAY IT PLEASE THE COURT. NEARLY A QUARTER OF A CENTURY AGO,...
|
| 00:18:00 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DECLARED SANCTIONS CENTRAL TO IMMIGRATION LAW. CONGRESS BROADLY SWEPT AWAY STATE AND LOCAL LAWS GRANTING ANY SANCTIONS ON THOSE WHO EMPLOY UNAUTHORIZED...
|
| 00:18:22 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
LAST TWO AND SIMILAR LAWS. IT SEEMS TO ME THAT WHATEVER LEGAL ROOM FOR AMBIGUITY SAYING -- THERE MAY BE SAYING WHETHER THIS IS A LICENSE AT ALL, CONGRESS...
|
| 00:18:44 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
LAWS THAT WERE NOT IN PLACE IN 1986. THOSE WERE LARGELY FARM LABOR CONTRACTOR LOST THAT WERE AIMED AT FITNESS TO DO BUSINESS. THEY HAD A FEW ESSENTIAL...
|
| 00:19:04 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
A ELECTRICAL CONTRACTING BUSINESS IF YOU DID NOT WANT A LICENSE TO DO BUSINESS OR MEET THE REQUIREMENTS FOR AN ELECTRICIAN? IT WAS NOT JUST AGRICULTURE....
|
| 00:19:24 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
REASONS. THE FIRST IS LICENSING LAWS ISSUE LICENSES. THEY ARE GENERALLY ABOUT THE ISSUE OF LICENSES, NOT SIMPLY ONES IN WHICH LICENSES ARE REVOKED....
|
| 00:19:53 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THAT PERMITS THE REVOCATION OF THE LICENSE, THE REVOCATION DOES NOT PERMIT THE LICENSING LAW -- SUPPOSE I HAVE A LICENSING LAW THAT SAYS IF YOU DID THIS...
|
| 00:20:18 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OR ANOTHER. >> LICENSING LAWS, BECAUSE CONGRESS WANTED TO RESERVE THE STATE'S
|
| 00:20:31 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TRADITIONAL LICENSING LAWS. >> YOU THINK THAT IS WHAT CONGRESSMAN, THAT YOU CAN PASS UP ON THEIR FITNESS WHEN YOU ISSUE THE LICENSE, BUT ONCE IT
|
| 00:20:42 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IS ISSUED, THEY CAN DO WHATEVER THEY LIKE? >> I THINK THAT THE CRITERIA WOULD BE THE SAME. >> OK, SO THAT RAISES THE QUESTION -- WHY DOES IT MAKE ANY
|
| 00:20:51 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DIFFERENCE? IF THE REVOCATION PROVISION IS CONTAINED,
|
| 00:20:55 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OR IF THERE'S A GENERAL STATE LAW, WHICH SAYS ALL LICENSES MAY BE REVOKED FIRST -- >> WHAT CONGRESS WAS TRYING TO DO IS PRESERVE THE STATES AND LOCALITIES...
|
| 00:21:08 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BUSINESS, AND FOR BUSINESS TO BUSINESS IS NOT A -- THAT IS NOT AT ISSUE IS THAT THEY WILL LET BUSINESSES OPERATE. THEY WILL LICENSE THEM WITHOUT ANY...
|
| 00:21:31 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ISSUED AND TO SAY IN EACH SPECIFIC LICENSING LAW THAT IT CAN BE REVOKED ON THE SAME GROUND. >> EVEN IF THEY SAID YOU HAD TO RENEW YOUR LICENSING LOT EVERY...
|
| 00:21:49 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WE HAVE DISCRETIONARY ADJUDICATION BY AN EXPERT BODY, BUT IT IS NOT MANDATORY, THAT IS GENUINELY AIMED AT
|
| 00:22:01 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
QUALIFICATIONS TO DO BUSINESS. >> YOU DO NOT DISAGREE THAT WHETHER OR NOT SOMEBODY HIRES ILLEGAL WORKERS IS RELATED
|
| 00:22:10 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TO ABILITY TO DO BUSINESS OR QUALIFICATION? >> A STATE COULD CERTAINLY MAKE THAT PART OF ITS JUDGE
|
| 00:22:21 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DID BUSINESS. HEAR, ARIZONA HAS NOT DONE THAT, AND WE KNOW THAT BECAUSE THE CRITERIA FOR ISSUANCE OF THE LICENSE ARE ENTIRELY DIVORCED FROM THE CRITERIA...
|
| 00:22:51 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IF THE PURPOSE IS TO REGULATE UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS, THEN IT IS STRUCK DOWN. IF IT HAPPENS TO PUT ITS REVOCATION PROVISIONS IN ITS LICENSING LAW, THEN IT...
|
| 00:23:13 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
STATUTE TALKS ONLY ABOUT IF YOU HIRE UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS, YOUR LICENSE IS REVOKED. >> RIGHT. THAT
|
| 00:23:19 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
LOOKS LIKE A PUNISHMENT STATUTE. >>
|
| 00:23:24 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE SAVING CLAUSE SAYS THAT IS OKAY. CIVIL OR CRIMINAL SANCTIONS. >> THIS IS NOT
|
| 00:23:31 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
A LICENSING LAW. CONGRESS ESSENTIALLY HAD TWO BOXES IN 1986. >>
|
| 00:23:37 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IF WE DISAGREE WITH YOU, COULD YOU ANSWER THE QUESTION I POSED TO YOUR ADVERSARY, WHICH
|
| 00:23:45 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IS -- WHAT MAKES THE ADJUDICATION OF STATUS PRE- EMPTED? >> ABSOLUTELY. THE FEDERAL ADJUDICATION -- THE
|
| 00:23:58 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
STATE EDUCATION IS EXPRESSLY PRE-EMPTED AS WELL AS IMPLIED FOR THREE REASONS. THE FIRST IS THAT CONGRESS, SET OUT A SERIES OF PROCEDURES, ALL SORTS...
|
| 00:24:31 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ADJUDICATED REVOCATION OF LICENSES. PERHAPS NOT MANY HAD ADDRESSED THE ISSUE OF HIRING UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS, BUT MANY STATE LAWS EXISTED THAT INDEPENDENTLY...
|
| 00:25:02 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SWEPT AWAY IF THESE WERE SANCTIONS IMPOSED, SO THE QUESTION IS WHETHER THE LICENSING LAW PHRASE STAYS THAT, AND I THINK IT STAYS FEDERAL AND STATE ADJUDICATION,...
|
| 00:25:38 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TO DO BUSINESS, AND IT BECAME AWARE OF A PROBLEM IT WAS NOT AWARE OF BEFORE AND FOUND OUT THAT A LOT OF EMPLOYERS WERE EMPLOYING CHILD LABOR. AND THEY...
|
| 00:26:12 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THEY SAID FOR THE I-9 PROVISION, WHICH PRESIDENT REAGAN DESCRIBED AS THE KEYSTONE OF THE ACT, THAT THOSE DOCUMENTS CANNOT BE USED FOR ANY PROCEDURES...
|
| 00:26:34 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
|
| 00:26:36 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
STILL A LICENSING. >> IF IT HAS INDEPENDENT ADJUDICATION, IT IS SWEPT AWAY BY THE FIRST PARTS OF THE H-2
|
| 00:26:46 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
STATUTE, WHICH SAY THE PROVISIONS OF THE SECTION PREEMPT ANY STATE OR LOCAL LAW FROM OPPOSING -- >> IN THE CHILD LABOR EXAMPLE, WHY IS THAT NOT AN ADDITION...
|
| 00:27:01 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IT IS A LICENSING LAW? >> AS I UNDERSTAND -- I MAY NOT UNDERSTAND THE HYPOTHETICAL, BUT THE WORD "PROVISIONS" REFERS TO THE
|
| 00:27:10 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ENTIRE STATUTE, AND THERE ARE THINGS WITHIN THE PROCEDURES THAT FOLLOW THE FEDERAL ENFORCEMENT OF THE IMMIGRATION LAW. >> YOU TRIED EARLIER TO TALK ABOUT...
|
| 00:27:28 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ANYTHING, CIVIL AND CRIMINAL SANCTIONS ARE ALLOWED IF THEY ARE IMPOSED THROUGH LICENSING AND SIMILAR LAWS. THE STATE CAN DO WHAT IS IN THE FIRST PART...
|
| 00:27:50 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IS IT SIMILAR TO A LICENSING LAW? >> I DO NOT THINK SO. CONGRESS HAD, WHEN THEY USED SIMILAR METHODS TO SIDESTEP THE SEMANTIC DEBATE ABOUT WHETHER
|
| 00:28:00 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SOMETHING IS A SIMILAR CERTIFICATE, WHETHER THE CONTRACTORS USED THAT LICENSING TERMS FOR A LICENSE. >> THANK YOU, COUNSEL. >> MS. O'GRADY? >> THANK...
|
| 00:28:24 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TRADITIONALLY HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO REGULATE THE CONDUCT OF POWERS TO DETERMINE WHAT WERE A STATE LICENSE AND TO DETERMINE WHAT CONDUCT JUSTIFIES SUSPENDING...
|
| 00:29:01 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
FINE, EVEN IN A MODEST AMOUNT, BUT IT CAN REVOKE SOMEONE'S LICENSE TO DO BUSINESS. >> YOUR HONOR, LOOKING AT THE SAVINGS CLAUSE, WE DO NOT VIEW IT AS...
|
| 00:29:20 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AUTHORITY IS DETERMINED BY THE NATURE OF THE SANCTION THAT WE CHOOSE TO IMPOSE. WE DO NOT HAVE THE AUTHORITY -- THEY TOOK AWAY OUR AUTHORITY TO IMPOSE...
|
| 00:29:46 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IT PROVIDES SOME ACCOUNTABILITY BECAUSE WE ARE THE ENTITIES THAT ESTABLISH POLICY FOR OUR LICENSEES, AND WE ARE THE ONES ACCOUNTABLE FOR WHETHER THAT...
|
| 00:30:07 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
MEASURES, AND THEY PROBABLY WOULD NOT HAVE IF THE LAW HAD BEEN UNIFORMLY ENFORCED AND VIGOROUSLY ENFORCED, RIGHT? YOU DID NOT HAVE ANY NOTION OF DOING...
|
| 00:30:35 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THAT UNAUTHORIZED EMPLOYMENT HAS SIGNIFICANT LOCAL CONSEQUENCES, SO THEY DID NOT WANT TO FULLY PREEMPT STATE LAW. >> THE MAIN ANOMALIES SEEMED TO ME...
|
| 00:30:48 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THAT THE CHAMBERMAID, THAT IT IS A FAIRLY CAREFUL BALANCE. THEY ARE A GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT IN ARIZONA -- THEY MAY LOOK AS IF THEY COME FROM MEXICO OR...
|
| 00:32:11 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AGAINST INVESTIGATING A COMPLAINT BASED SOLELY ON RACE, SO IF WE GET A PLATE THAT'S IT -- A COMPLAINT THAT SAYS THOSE PEOPLE LOOK MEXICAN OR HISPANIC,...
|
| 00:32:57 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
A VIOLATION HAS OCCURRED OR NOT -- DOES IT NOT FRUSTRATE THAT LAW TO HAVE THE STATES RAISE A DEFENSE THAT DEPENDS ON FORCING SOMEONE TO DISCLOSE SOMETHING...
|
| 00:33:41 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
I-9 IN A STATE PRISON PROCEEDINGS. THAT THIS COULD BE USED UNDER FEDERAL PROCEEDING OR STATE, BUT BEYOND THAT, IN AN ACTUAL ENFORCEMENT ACTION, IT WAS...
|
| 00:34:07 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CAN BE USED FOR NO PURPOSE OTHER THAN THE FEDERAL ADJUDICATION OF THE STATUS OF EMPLOYEES? >> HERE IS WHAT THE LAW SAYS -- IT MAY NOT BE USED FOR PURPOSES...
|
| 00:34:23 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THAT A STATE ENFORCEMENT ACTION UNDER THE AUTHORITY FOR PRESERVING SANCTIONS THROUGH LICENSING AND SIMILAR LAWS WOULD FALL WITHIN THAT, SO WE THINK THEY...
|
| 00:34:39 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CHAPTER AND OTHER PROVISIONS OF FEDERAL LAW ON THE ONE HAND AND SAYING ON THE OTHER HAND, IT MAY NOT BE USED FOR ANY OTHER PURPOSE OTHER THAN IN A FEDERAL...
|
| 00:35:16 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SAYS, "HERE IS MY SOCIAL SECURITY CARD. HERE IS THE DRIVER'S LICENSE," AND THE EMPLOYER LOOKS AT THAT, HE IS HOME FREE. UNDER ARIZONA LAW, HE IS NOT...
|
| 00:35:42 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
EMPLOYER LOOKS AT IT, THE EMPLOYER CANNOT BE PROSECUTED -- YES OR NO? >> WE WOULD NEED THE EVIDENCE THAT THE PERSON KNOWINGLY EMPLOYED THE UNAUTHORIZED...
|
| 00:35:55 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
I THOUGHT, WHEN READING IT, THAT IT CREATES SOME KIND OF PRESUMPTION THAT HE IS NOT HOME FREE.
|
| 00:36:02 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
UNDER FEDERAL LAW, HE IS HOME FREE. BAMUT IS SUBSTANTIVE REQUIREMENTS UNDER ARIZONA AND FEDERAL LAWS ARE THE SAME. >> SO THEN HE IS HOME FREE? I'M TRYING...
|
| 00:36:17 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TIME TO EXPLAIN IT, BUT I THOUGHT FEDERAL LAW REQUIRED THOUGHTE-9 BUSINESS, AND I WAS -- REQUIRED THIS E-9 BUSINESS. 20% OF THOSE ARE WRONG, AND THE...
|
| 00:36:57 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CHANGE ANYTHING. WE WOULD RETAIN THE SAME DEFENSE THAT IS IN THE FEDERAL LAW AND GOOD FAITH COMPLIANCE. IT REQUIRES VERIFICATION, ALTHOUGH WE DO NOT...
|
| 00:37:19 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
RESOURCE, AND THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS SAID, "WE WANT THIS TO BE VOLUNTARY." HOW CAN ARIZONA TAKE FEDERAL RESOURCE, WHICH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SAYS...
|
| 00:37:51 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WE DO NOT GET INTO ANY PRE- EMPTION OR NOT. ARIZONA WANTS TO USE A FEDERAL RESOURCED. THE FED MAKES
|
| 00:38:02 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IT AVAILABLE. HOW CAN ARIZONA SET THE RULES ON THE USE OF A FEDERAL RESOURCE? >> YOUR HONOR, AS LONG AS IT IS NOT A BURDEN TO THE OBJECTIVE OF CONGRESS,...
|
| 00:38:28 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
REQUIRE EMPLOYEES WITHIN OUR JURISDICTION TO VERIFY -- >> DO YOU MAKE IT MANDATORY? >> OUR STATUTE SAYS WE SHALL THERE 5. WE DO NOT IMPOSE A PENALTY...
|
| 00:38:41 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
NOT GET THE SAFE HARBOR. >> THAT IS RIGHT. YOU DO NOT GET THE SAFE HARBOR. WE DID ADD
|
| 00:38:49 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AFTER THIS LAWSUIT WAS FILED SOME ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS SIMILAR TO WHAT THEY HAVE UNDER THE FEDERAL SYSTEM WHERE YOU CANNOT GET STATE CONTRACTS. >>...
|
| 00:39:07 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
MANDATORY. IT SEEMS TO ME THAT IS ALMOST A CLASSIC EXAMPLE OF A STATE DOING SOMETHING THAT IS INCONSISTENT WITH FEDERAL REQUIREMENTS. >> AGAIN, WE LOOK...
|
| 00:39:23 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ARE WE INTERFERING WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S ABILITY TO ACHIEVE ITS GOALS? AND THE GOAL IS TO HAVE A MORE EFFECTIVE VERIFICATION SYSTEM. >> IF THEY...
|
| 00:39:42 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
INCENTIVES FROM THE STATE, -- THAT IS WHAT THE LAW SAYS, ISN'T IT? SO THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTION IS YES, THERE IS THAT PENALTY. >> THERE IS NO PENALTY...
|
| 00:40:01 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
GRANT, LOAN, OR PERFORMANCE- BASED INCENTIVES. >> DOES
|
| 00:40:06 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THIS LAWSUIT CHALLENGE THAT? >> IT DOES NOT. >> YOU ARE UNDER THE OLD LAW, AND THE ONLY SANCTION IS YOU LOSE THE SAFE HARBOR. >> THAT IS RIGHT. >>
|
| 00:40:17 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SO IT ANSWERS JUSTICE BREYER'S EARLIER QUESTION THAT RELYING ON THE
|
| 00:40:26 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
I-9 DOES NOT PROVIDE SAFE HARBOR BECAUSE YOU CANNOT JUST PROVIDE THOSE FORMS AND THAT IS WHAT YOU HAVE TO RELY ON THE E-VERIFY. >> IT IS MODELED AFTER...
|
| 00:40:47 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
I-9, SO DOES THE STATE LAW. >> IS SEEN TO BE EXACTLY THE SAME ON THIS POINT, BUT I DO NOT UNDERSTAND HOW THEY
|
| 00:40:57 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
FIT TOGETHER. SUPPOSE -- THE FIRST THING AN EMPLOYER DOES IS RECEIVE THE FORMS FROM AN EMPLOYEE, LOOKS AT THE FORMS. THE REASONABLY SEEM TO BE AUTHENTIC,...
|
| 00:42:02 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
EITHER, BECAUSE IT DOES SEEM AT SOME POINT, THAT THE SYSTEM SHOULD WORKED. YOU GET BACK A FINAL NON- CONFIRMATION, NOT A TENTATIVE NON-CONFIRMATION, THAT...
|
| 00:42:36 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
EMPHASIS WAS THAT THIS STATUTE WAS BEING EVALUATED ON ITS FACE, AND SHE SAID AS APPLIED AS MY PARTICULAR TALENTS TO RISE. HOW WOULD THAT WORK? ON ITS...
|
| 00:43:06 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
LICENSE, OUTSIDE THE DEFINITION OF LICENSING AND SIMILAR LAWS, PERHAPS THAT WOULD BE AN AS-APPLIED CHALLENGE. SOME OF THE I-9 CONCERNS ARE PERHAPS MORE...
|
| 00:43:48 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AS APPLIED CHALLENGES AND WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN RESOLVED BY THIS CASE. >> YOUR HONOR, MY HOPE IS -- >> REALLY WASTING OUR TIME, ARE WE NOT? >> WOULD IT...
|
| 00:44:04 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SOLICITOR GENERAL'S POSITION THAT IF YOU ARE ADJUDICATING
|
| 00:44:08 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
GOOD FAITH OR INTENT DIFFERENTLY IN ANY WAY FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, THAT IT IS PRE-EMPTIVE? IS THAT NOT WHAT WAITING FOR AN AS APPLIED CHALLENGE...
|
| 00:44:38 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BUT I THINK -- >> LET ME ASK THE QUESTION DIRECTLY. IF ARIZONA'S SYSTEM DOES NOT PERMIT AN EMPLOYER TO
|
| 00:44:50 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
RELY ON NON-SUSPECT DOCUMENTS, THE I-9 DOCUMENTS THAT ARE PERMITTED EMPLOYERS TO RELY ON, THE ARIZONA SYSTEMS SAYS YOU CANNOT RELY ON THOSE -- IS THAT...
|
| 00:45:37 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ARE YOU CONCEDING WITH ANY VARIATION FROM THE FEDERAL
|
| 00:45:44 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
STANDARDS FOR CRIMINAL AND CIVIL LIABILITY IS AUTOMATICALLY PRECLUDED? AS I READ THE EXCEPTION, IT IS AN EXCEPTION FOR STATE LICENSING AND SIMILAR LAWS,...
|
| 00:46:37 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OF STATE LAWS, BUT I DO THINK THEY ESTABLISHED A UNIFORM NATIONAL STANDARD. I DO NOT THINK YOU COULD ESTABLISH A STRICT LIABILITY OFFICE IN ARIZONA....
|
| 00:46:56 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SOCIAL SECURITY CARD -- THOSE ARE I-9 DOCS -- THEN THE EMPLOYER HAS ESTABLISHED AN AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE AND HAS NOT VIOLATED THE LAW. THAT IS WHAT IT...
|
| 00:48:38 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WHERE IS IT IN THE STATUTE? WHAT I WORKED -- WHAT I READ WERE THE WORDS REBUTTABLE PRESUMPTION, AND I MIGHT BE READING
|
| 00:48:46 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE WRONG WORDS. >> LET ME EXPLAIN WHILE I FIND THE SPECIFIC STATUTORY SITE.
|
| 00:48:57 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
178A IS THE PROVISION, ESTABLISHES AN AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE, SAID THAT IS THE PROVISION THAT PROVIDES THE I-9 DEFENSE. THE REBUTTABLE PRESUMPTION ISSUE...
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| 00:50:14 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
QUESTION IF THERE IS A VERY SUBSTANTIAL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FEDERAL AND STATE LAW ON THIS POINT -- I INTERPRET YOUR ANSWER AS CONFIRMING THE APPLICATION....
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| 00:50:50 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DEFENSE UNDER BOTH. >> YES, YOUR HONOR. >> THE MAIN POINT -- I THINK MAYBE I WAS MISTAKEN, PERHAPS. BUT THEN WE ARE STILL STUCK
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| 00:51:03 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WITH THIS ENORMOUS DISCREPANCY IN A PENALTY. IN CHARACTERIZING IT AS AN ENORMOUS, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE IT IS EVEN ON DISCRIMINATION UNDER THE FEDERAL LAW....
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| 00:51:30 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WORD LICENSING -- NOT EVERYBODY LOOKS AT THIS, BUT I DID LOOK AT THE LEGISLATIVE
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| 00:51:35 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
HISTORY, AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT THAT PARAGRAPH, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THAT PARAGRAPH SAYS WHAT IT MEANS. IT'S AS PRECISELY WHAT IT IS. THE FIRST THING IT...
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| 00:53:06 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
I SAID, YES, I GOT BROAD LICENSING, BUT LET'S LOOK AT YOUR EXPLANATION
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| 00:53:14 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AS TO WHY THEY PUT THOSE WORDS THERE. >> THE FARM LABOR CONTRACTOR IS JUST AN EXAMPLE. I THINK IT SAYS SUCH AS AN EXAMPLE OF THE TYPE OF PRISONS
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| 00:53:24 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THAT EXISTED AT THE TIME THAT ADDRESS THAT. THAT IS NOT AN ALL-INCLUSIVE UNIVERSE OF SANCTIONS OR LICENSING LAWS THAT MIGHT BE SUBJECT TO THIS. THEY...
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| 00:54:39 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IF YOU HAVE DOCUMENTS, BUT YOU ALSO REQUIRE THE E-VERIFY. DOES THAT INFORMATION MODIFIED THE I-9? >> THEY WORK IN OUR SYSTEM AS THEY DO UNDER THE FEDERAL...
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| 00:55:04 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
GET IN YOUR FAVOR IF YOU USE THE E-VERIFY, AN AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE IF YOU USE I-9. WE DO HAVE AN EXAMPLE IF THAT EMPLOYER IS TERMINATED BECAUSE THEY ARE...
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| 00:57:35 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THANK YOU, MR. CHIEF JUSTICE. ONCE AGAIN, MAY IT PLEASE THE COURT, I WANT TO AGAIN WHERE
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| 00:57:43 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
JUSTICE SOTOMAYOR POINTED ME TO BEFORE, WHICH IS THE QUESTION OF WHETHER THERE IS A BASIS FOR ALLOWING THE STATE TO INDEPENDENTLY INVESTIGATE AND INDEPENDENTLY...
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| 00:59:05 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
EASIEST --
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| 00:59:11 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE EASIEST IS IF AN EMPLOYEE IS CONVICTED OF VIOLATIONS, AND HE HAPPENS TO BE A BARBER, AND THE STATE LICENSING LAW SAYS IF YOU ARE CONVICTED OF A FEDERAL...
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| 00:59:52 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DECIDE ON THE BASIS OF WHAT CONGRESS HAD IN FRONT OF IT IN 1986, BUT REMEMBER, CONGRESS WAS BALANCING THREE AT LEAST VERY DIFFICULT PROBLEMS -- MINIMIZING...
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| 01:00:37 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CLAUSE. THAT IS NOT A REGULATION BY CONGRESS OF POWER TO ITSELF. >> IF YOU INTERPRET THE SAVINGS CLAUSE, AS I DO, WHICH MEANS TRULY AS A SUPPLEMENT...
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| 01:00:48 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
FEDERAL ADJUDICATION, THEN IS A VERY NARROW ADJUDICATION ON THAT BASIS BECAUSE AT THAT POINT, YOU HAVE ALREADY INVOKED THE ENTIRETY OF THE FEDERAL SCHEME,...
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| 01:01:08 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
PERFORMED BY NATIONAL CAPTIONING INSTITUTE] [CAPTIONS COPYRIGHT NATIONAL CABLE SATELLITE CORP. 2010] >> YOU ARE WATCHING C-SPAN, BRINGING YOU POLITICS...
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NOTE: The transcript for this program was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.