| 00:00:04 |
HOST, -
TALK TO US ABOUT TERRORISM. FIRST, TELL US WHO OR WHAT ISAL SHABAB. GUEST: IT'S AN OUTGROWTH OF AN ISLAMIC ORGANIZATION THAT BEGAN AROUND 1990, CALLED
|
| 00:00:21 |
GUEST, -
ISLAMEA. AND IT WAS STARTED BY SUED NIZZ MISSIONRIES. AND THEIR OBJECTIVE HAS ALWAYS BEEN TO ISLAMIZE SOMALI SOCIETY. AND THEY HAVE BECOME MORE AND...
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| 00:00:59 |
HOST, -
AGO TODAY WAS DESIGNED TO
|
| 00:01:01 |
GUEST, -
SAY, SEE WHAT WE CAN DO. WE CAN REALLY BE PART OF YOUR ORGANIZATION. BECAUSE IF THEY BECOME PART OF AL QAEDA THEY GET MONEY AND THEY GET ALL SORTS...
|
| 00:01:21 |
HOST, -
LIKE A GROUP OF PLEDGES TRYING TO SHOW THE BROTHERS IN THE FRATERNITY THAT THEY TOO CAN BE A MEMBER OF THE FRATERNITY? GUEST: THAT'S A VERY IMPORTANT...
|
| 00:01:36 |
GUEST, -
AND THE FACT THEY HAVEN'T HAD A GOVERNMENT FOR 20 YEARS, THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF FIGHTING AMONG CLANS AND MILITIAS AND WAR LORDS. AND THE AFRICAN UNION...
|
| 00:02:19 |
HOST, -
GET INVOLVED IN THE CONVERSATION. THE PHONE NUMBERS ARE ON THE BOTTOM OF YOUR SCREEN. WHAT'S BEEN THE REACTION OF THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION REGARDING...
|
| 00:02:48 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
GUYS BECAUSE THE NEXT THING YOU KNOW WE MIGHT HAVE AN ATTACK ON
|
| 00:02:51 |
GUEST, -
A UNITED STATES TERRITORY AND UGANDA IS A GOOD FRIEND OF OURS. WE WANT TO HELP THEM. SO WHAT IN EFFECT HE IS SAYING IS WE HAVE TO HELP THE AFRICANS...
|
| 00:03:21 |
HOST, -
SEEMS LIKE RIGHT NOW THEY'RE JUST TRYING TO MAKE A STATEMENT IN AFRICA WHAT EVIDENCE IS THERE THAT THEY WANT TO EXTEND THIS BEYOND AFRICA AND EVENTUALLY...
|
| 00:03:38 |
GUEST, -
YUNE, AND AMERICAN FORCES ARE IN THE AREA. AND THEY HAVE EXERCISED THEIR ABILITY TO KILL INDIVIDUAL AL SHABAB LEADERS EITHER WITH DRONE STRIKES,...
|
| 00:04:11 |
HOST, -
SO DISINTEGRATED OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS
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| 00:04:14 |
GUEST, -
THAT THE FORMER BRITISH PART OF SOMALIA HAVE DECLARED THEIR INDEPENDENTS. AND ONE OF THE PARTS IN THE NORTHEAST IS CALLED POONLAND. AND HE IS HEAVILY...
|
| 00:04:50 |
HOST, -
FROM WHEN U.S. MILITARY FORCES WERE IN SOMALIA TRYING TO KEEP THE PEACE THERE? GUEST: I DON'T THINK SO. THAT'S TOO LONG TIME AWAY. I THINK WHAT MOTIVATES...
|
| 00:05:03 |
GUEST, -
THE AFRICAN UNION, WHICH IS SUPPORTING THE TRANSITIONAL FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IN MOGE DISHU AND THEY WANT TO OVERTHROW THIS GOVERNMENT AND TAKE POWER THEMSELVES....
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| 00:05:23 |
HOST, -
DEMOCRATS. GO AHEAD. CALLER: HEY. ESSENTIALLY I JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT WHAT THIS SEEMS TO BE IS KIND OF
|
| 00:05:33 |
CALLER, -
A PREDECESSOR FOR THINGS OF THE FUTURE. I MEAN, ESSENTIALLY WHAT THESE PEOPLE ARE, ARE A GROUP OR A COALITION MOUNTING UP WITH ONES THAT SEEM AS THOUGH...
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| 00:06:25 |
HOST, -
IDEOLOGY THAT THE SOMALI PEOPLE
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| 00:06:27 |
GUEST, -
REJECT. IN THE AREAS THAT THEY CONTROL, THEY FORBID PEOPLE TO SING AND DANCE, TO GO TO THE MOVIES, EVEN TO PLAY SOCCER. AND THE SOMALIES DO NOT LIKE...
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| 00:07:26 |
HOST, -
BACKGROUND OF COURSE IS THAT HOW CAN I SAY THIS POLITELY.
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| 00:07:31 |
CALLER, -
MR. COHEN IS A KIND OF IMPERIAL FUNCTIONRY. AND MUCH OF WHAT HE SAID ABOUT SOMALIA IS NOT TRUE. BUT THE ONE THING THAT HE DID SAY THAT WAS TRUE IS...
|
| 00:07:58 |
HOST, -
NARRATIVE ABOUT AL SHABAB AND TERRORISM AND THE REST OF IT IS THE SAME KIND OF WAR
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| 00:08:03 |
CALLER, -
RHETORIC THAT WE HAD FROM THE BUSH-CHENEY ERA THAT JUSTIFIES OUR INVOLVEMENT IN SOMALIA. WE ARE THE REASON WHY SOMALIA HAS NO GOVERNMENT FOR THE...
|
| 00:08:43 |
HOST, -
SHABAB ATTACK ON THE FOLKS IN UGANDA? CALLER: I HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT THAT BUT I DO HAVE AN IDEA ABOUT -- OH, COME TO THINK OF
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| 00:08:54 |
CALLER, -
IT, THE REASON FOR THAT WOULD BE UGANDA AND BRUNEDI AND RWANDA ARE STATES THAT THE UNITED STATES USED THEIR ARMY TO INVADE OTHER COUNTRIES. HOST: WE'LL...
|
| 00:09:11 |
HOST, -
IN AFRICA. WE
|
| 00:09:13 |
GUEST, -
NEVER HAVE HAD ANY COLONIES IN AFRICA. AND THE THING TO REMEMBER ABOUT SOMALIA IS THAT THE TRANSITIONAL GOVERNMENT THAT'S TRYING TO GAIN POWER IN THE...
|
| 00:09:59 |
HOST, -
CALLER: I'M WONDERING WHERE, WHEN WE TELL THE AFRICAN UNION TO
|
| 00:10:08 |
CALLER, -
STOP THE FLOW OF GUNS? THE IS IT POSSIBLE? BECAUSE IF THEY CAN CONTROL THAT, BECAUSE WHO IS SUPPLYING THEM WITH THE AMMUNITION AND GUNS? SFWOO GUEST:...
|
| 00:10:26 |
GUEST, -
CLOSE TO YEMEN AND THERE ARE ALL SORTS OF BOATS GOING UP AND BACK BETWEEN YEMEN AND SOMALIA. AND IT'S VERY, VERY HARD TO STOP THE FLOW OF GUNS COMING...
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| 00:11:09 |
HOST, -
ABOUT WHAT THE ADMINISTRATION PLANS ON DOING TO TRY AND QUELL THIS GROWTH OF AL SHABAB IS THERE ANYTHING THEY CAN DO DIPLOMATICALLY OR MIGHT THIS INVOLVE...
|
| 00:11:38 |
GUEST, -
EXPERIENCE IN 1993, AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO THAT AGAIN. PLUS, WE ARE FIGHTING WARS IN AFGHANISTAN AND IRAQ. THE WHOLE FOCUS OF THE UNITED STATES RIGHT...
|
| 00:12:38 |
HOST, -
GEORGE H.W. BUSH ADMINISTRATION. HE ALSO SERVED IN FIVE AFRICAN COUNTRIES AND TWICE IN FRANCE AS THE AMERICAN AMBASSADOR TO SENEGAL WITH DUAL ACCREDITATION...
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| 00:13:10 |
CALLER, -
WORLD? GUEST: WELL, THAT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION, TOO. AS LONG AS TERRORISM IS AIMING TO HIT THE UNITED STATES,
|
| 00:13:18 |
GUEST, -
OR OUR FRIENDS, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT JUST WORRIED ABOUT OURSELVES, WE'RE WORRIED ABOUT OUR FRIENDS OUT THERE, WE HAVE TO COOPERATE WITH THE EUROPEANS,...
|
| 00:13:53 |
HOST, -
CALL. I JUST HAD A COUPLE COMMENTS BECAUSE I WAS LISTENING
|
| 00:13:57 |
CALLER, -
TO THIS GUY AND HE WAS TALKING ABOUT HOW EASY -- I'M A LITTLE NERVOUS SO PLEASE BEAR WITH ME. HE SAID SOMETHING ABOUT HOW EASY IT WAS AND ACCESSIBLE...
|
| 00:14:43 |
GUEST, -
SOMEBODY HAS A GUN LEGALLY BUT THEN USES IT FOR SOME ILLEGAL ACT, THEY CAN BE ARRESTED AND SENT TO PRISON. SOMALIA DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING LIKE THAT. IF...
|
| 00:15:10 |
HOST, -
BY AL SHABAB TO TRY TO BECOME PART OF THE LARGER AL QAEDA MOVEMENT, IS THIS SOMETHING THAT THEY'RE WELCOMING? GUEST: I THINK IT IS. BECAUSE THE...
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| 00:15:24 |
GUEST, -
FIGHTING WITH AL QAEDA IN AFGHANISTAN AND IN IRAQ, AND ALSO SOMALIS, ALSO PEOPLE WHO HAVE COME IN FROM ABROAD. YOU HAVE PAKISTANIS THERE, SAUDIS, YEMENIS...
|
| 00:16:06 |
HOST, -
SOMETHING ABOUT WE'RE NOT AN EMPIRE, WHICH I
|
| 00:16:09 |
CALLER, -
AGREE. HOWEVER, I WANT YOU TO VERIFY SOMETHING FOR ME IF YOU WOULD, PLEASE. I HAVE READ THAT WE HAVE 177 MILITARY BASES IN 84 COUNTRIES, AND TROOPS...
|
| 00:16:46 |
GUEST, -
FULL AGREEMENT WITH THE HOST GOVERNMENTS. WE HAVE NOT IMPOSED OURSELVES, TO THE BEST OF OUR KNOWLEDGE, ON ANY GOVERNMENT SAYING WE'RE HAVING A BASE HERE...
|
| 00:17:35 |
HOST, -
1993. HE IS CURRENTLY A CONSULTANT FOR CENTURY ALUMINUM CORPORATION OUT OF MONTEREY, CALIFORNIA, AND ALSO THE ADVISOR ON AFRICA TO CONTOUR GLOBAL CORPORATION...
|
| 00:18:02 |
CALLER, -
MR. COHEN. GUEST: HELLO. GUEST: TWO QUESTIONS. FIRST, IT WAS UNDER YOUR WATCH THAT THE
|
| 00:18:14 |
GUEST, -
CURRENT DICTATOR IN
|
| 00:18:16 |
GUEST, -
ETHIOPIA TOOK PLACE. SECOND, I THINK THE RISE OF AL SHABAB IS REALLY THE LACK OF DEMOCRACY IN THE REGION. THE PEOPLE HAVE NOTHING TO LOOK FORWARD IN...
|
| 00:19:05 |
HOST, -
YOU LEAVE? CALLER: IN THE 80'S. JUST
|
| 00:19:09 |
CALLER, -
SO SAD BECAUSE REALLY
|
| 00:19:11 |
HOST, -
THAT THERE WAS SO MUCH MACHINE
|
| 00:19:14 |
CALLER, -
NATION. YOU KNOW WHY SOMAL YA -- HELLO. GUEST: REALLY, IT WAS UNDER THE CARTER ADMINISTRATION THAT SOMALIA WAS
|
| 00:19:26 |
GUEST, -
PUSHED TOWARDS INVADING ETHIOPIA. AND THAT IS CAUSED THE CHAOTIC COLLAPSE OF SOMALIA. AND I THINK THE U.S. NEEDS TO STEP UP. NOT NECESSARILY MILITARILY...
|
| 00:19:49 |
HOST, -
BASIC PREMISE. THE ABSENCE OF DEMOCRACY AND THE INABILITY OF PEOPLE TO SAY WHAT THEY WANT
|
| 00:19:55 |
GUEST, -
AND GET ACCEPTED IS THE CORE ISSUE. THE ABSENCE OF DEMOCRACY, THE PRESENCE OF AUTHORITARIAN DICTATORSHIPS IS A GREAT CAUSE OF INSTABILITY AND TENSION....
|
| 00:21:05 |
HOST, -
QUESTION IS FOR HERMAN COHEN. GOOD MORNING,
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| 00:21:10 |
CALLER, -
SIR. MY QUESTION TO YOU IS, SIR, WHAT IS OUR INVOLVEMENT OR HAS BEEN OUR INVOLVEMENT FROM BACK IN 93 WHEN WE WERE FIRST THERE, ACTUALLY WE WERE EVEN...
|
| 00:22:23 |
GUEST, -
IN 1991. IT HAD BEEN A PRETTY NASTY CORRUPT DICTATORSHIP FROM 1969 TO 1991. IT COLLAPSED BECAUSE THERE WAS A LOT OF INTERNAL FIGHTING. ETHIOPIA WAS...
|
| 00:24:43 |
HOST, -
COHEN, THERE'S NO AMERICAN COLONIES ON THE CONETNENT OF AFRICA. IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN, BACK IN
|
| 00:24:51 |
CALLER, -
THE 1800, THE WHITE POLITICIAN CARVED OUT A COUNTRY THAT'S NAMED NOW AS LYBIA. IF YOU LOOK AT THE FLAG, YOU WILL SEE THAT FLAG RESEMBLE THE UNITED STATES...
|
| 00:25:17 |
GUEST, -
LIBERIA. BUT YOU'RE QUITE RIGHT. IN THE EARLY 1800S. THERE WAS A MOVEMENT THAT SAID, WELL, IF SLAVES ARE GOING TO BE FREED, THEY HAVE NO PLACE IN...
|
| 00:26:29 |
HOST, -
JOURNAL. CALLER: I JUST HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS. REFERRING TO THE AL SHABAB AND THEN
|
| 00:26:37 |
CALLER, -
AL QAEDA AND AFGHANISTAN AND YOU MADE A COMMENT A FEW MINUTES AGO ABOUT 9/11 ORIGINATING OR THE ISSUES OF 9/11 AND THE TERRORISM AND STUFF ORIGINATING...
|
| 00:28:15 |
CALLER, -
GUEST: THE REASON I SAID THAT 9/11 BEGAN IN AFGHANISTAN, AND I AM NOT AN EXPERT IN THAT PART OF THE WORLD,
|
| 00:28:24 |
GUEST, -
IS THAT THAT IS WHERE THE AL QAEDA CENTRAL WAS HEADQUARTERED. IT WITH THE HEADQUARTERS OF ALL OF THEIR ACTIVITIES WITH BIN LADEN. WHETHER THE HIJACKERS...
|
| 00:29:33 |
HOST, -
THIS ORGANIZATION A COLLAPSE IN UPON ITSELF BECAUSE OF THE DIVISIONS BEFORE THEY EVEN GET UP AND ESTABLISHED? GUEST: I'M EXPECTING IT TO COLLAPSE. THE...
|
| 00:29:46 |
GUEST, -
THEY ARE NOT LOYAL TO THE NATIONAL GOVERNMENT, WHICH DOES NOT EXIST. THEY BELIEVE IN THEIR EXTENDED FAMILY. WITHIN OUR CHICAGO -- WITHIN AL SHABAB,...
|
| 00:30:52 |
HOST, -
YOU MENTIONED A
|
| 00:30:57 |
CALLER, -
LOT THAT THE U.S. HAS NOT PLAYED A CAPITALISTIC OR IMPERIAL POWER AND LEAVE -- POWER IN AFRICA. NO ONE IS DISCUSSING THE FACT THAT THE U.S. PROPPED UP...
|
| 00:32:30 |
HOST, -
WERE TO HAVE NO RELATIONS OR COLD RELATIONS WITH EVERY OF AUTHORITARIAN GOVERNMENT, WE WOULD HAVE NO
|
| 00:32:36 |
GUEST, -
DIPLOMACY. I AGREE WITH OBAMA'S POLICY WHICH IS WE MUST TALK TO EVERYONE. WE MUST COMMUNICATE. IF WE THINK THEIR GOVERNMENTS ARE TOO AUTHORITARIAN, WE...
|
| 00:33:08 |
HOST, -
CALLER: FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU FOR BRINGING OF THIS ISSUE. IT DOES NOT SEEM TO BE IN THE NEWS OFTEN.
|
| 00:33:15 |
CALLER, -
I AM FROM SOMALIA. AMERICA HAS NOT DONE MUCH SINCE THE CENTRAL GOVERNMENT WAS RUN OUT. AMERICA DOES NOT SEEM TO HAVE A TERRIFIC PLAN. THEY TRAIN THEM...
|
| 00:34:16 |
GUEST, -
THEY SAVED TENS OF THOUSANDS OF SOMALI LIVES, PEOPLE DYING OF STARVATION, WOMEN AND BABIES YOU SAW ON TELEVISION DYING OF STARVATION. THE U.S. HELPED...
|
| 00:35:16 |
HOST, -
IT IS OUR GUEST. AN AIRLINE FOR REPUBLICANS ON " WASHINGTON JOURNAL." CALLER: I WANTED TO GIVE YOU A LITTLE PERSPECTIVE ON THIS. SOMALIA WAS A FRACTURED...
|
| 00:35:32 |
CALLER, -
OF WAR LORDS TO CREATE A LOT OF PROBLEMS FOR PEOPLE WITH CORRUPTION AND FOUND NO ROLE OF GOVERNMENT WHICH IS ACTUALLY SOMETHING CONTRADICTORY TO THE SOMALI...
|
| 00:36:54 |
HOST, -
GUEST: I AM HAPPY YOU BROUGHT UP THE UNION AFTER THE CHAOS WHEN THE GOVERNMENT FAILED IN
|
| 00:37:01 |
GUEST, -
1991, A BUNCH OF PEOPLE, MAINLY ISLAMIST CLERICS, AND BUSINESSPEOPLE, INTELLECTUALS, ESPECIALLY IN MOGADISHU SAID THEY NEEDED TO RELEASED FORM NEIGHBORHOOD...
|
| 00:39:27 |
HOST, -
FIRST OF ALL, YOU HAVE 12 MILLION PEOPLE OVER HERE ILLEGALLY. IF YOU TAKE IN 12 MILLION PEOPLE AND
|
| 00:39:34 |
CALLER, -
SAY, LOOK, YOU GO FIGHT IN THE MILITARY. WHEN YOU FIGHT FIVE YEARS IN THE HOT ZONE WE WILL GIVE U.S. CITIZENSHIP. YOU TAKE THEM AND GO OVER THERE AND...
|
| 00:40:22 |
GUEST, -
CEREMONY WHERE NON-AMERICANS WHO ARE FIGHTING WITH THE AMERICAN FORCES WERE GIVEN CITIZENSHIP. I THINK THAT IS ALONG THE LINES OF WHAT YOU SUGGESTED....
|
| 00:40:48 |
HOST, -
CALLER: WHERE IS [INAUDIBLE] I AM FROM LIBERIA.
|
| 00:41:00 |
CALLER, -
WE HAD A CIVIL WAR. NOW, THESE GUYS CAN GO TO AFGHANISTAN, PAKISTAN, TRAIN, AND COME BACK. THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE DOING. THEY NEED A WAY [UNINTELLIGIBLE]...
|
| 00:41:35 |
GUEST, -
GET TRAINED AND THEN THEY TURN INTO TERRORISTS. WE ARE TRYING TO STOP THEM, BUT IT IS NOT EASY WITH MILLIONS OF PEOPLE TRAVELLING EVERY DAY. HOST: FORMER...
|
| 00:41:52 |
HOST, -
THE EPA'S CARMEN DIOXIDE REGULATIONS ON THE BEN -- WITH BEN GEMAN. >> COMING ON THE NOON EASTERN ON C-SPAN RADIO, READ ERRORS OF THE TV NETWORK
|
| 00:42:09 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TALK PROGRAMS. TOPICS INCLUDE TEA PARTY POLITICS, MITCHELL ELECTIONS, AND THE GULF OF MEXICO OIL SPILL. AT NOON, DAVID GREGORY TALKS ABOUT THE FALL ELECTIONS...
|
| 00:44:27 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THEY HAVE THEIR DIFFERENT TALENTS.
|
NOTE: The transcript for this program was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.