Text Timeline

Text Timeline
Graphical Timeline

00:00:1612 min.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan Good morning, everybody. The committee receives testimony this morning on the new strategy for Afghanistan and Pakistan announced by President...
00:12:2226 sec.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary Sir, thank you very much for allowing me to do this. My husband is next-door as the administration's nominee to be deputy secretary of the...
00:12:481 min.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan Well, we thank you for getting here. We know how proud you are of your husband. Let me now, since a quorum is present, interrupt the flow...
00:14:424 sec.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary Thank you very much, sir, and thank you to the committee for taking the --
00:14:4620 sec.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan Let me interrupt you one more time. Let me remind everybody, since we do have a good attendance here, that we will mark up a bill tomorrow,...
00:15:069 min.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary Well, let me add my word of thanks to you for taking the time to have those committee votes. I know that Secretary Gates is very much looking...
00:24:492 sec.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan Thank you, Madame Secretary. General Petraeus.
00:24:51	Petraeus, David H. - Commander Mr. Chairman --
00:24:513 sec.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan You need your mic -- yeah.
00:24:5413 min.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander Mr. Chairman, Senator McCain, members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to provide an update on the situation in the U.S....
00:38:278 sec.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan Thank you so much, General. Thank you, again, for your tremendous leadership. Admiral Olson.
00:38:3510 min.	Olson, Eric T. - Commander Good morning, Chairman Levin, Senator McCain, distinguished members of the committee. Thank you for the invitation to appear before this...
00:48:521 min.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan Thank you, Admiral. We'll try a six-minute round for our first round. First, as I indicated in my opening statement, I'm concerned about...
00:50:218 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander I do agree with that, Senator.
00:50:2937 sec.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan The Afghan-Pakistan strategy did not include a new target end-strength for the Afghan national army. It remained at 134,000. And that's...
00:51:0642 sec.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary Senator, we certainly wanted to start by going after the near-term goal of accelerating the growth of the ANSF by the target date forward...
00:51:4850 sec.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan The long poles in the tent to get a larger Afghan army faster have been identified as the following: One is lack of trainers. We're sending...
00:52:381 min.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander In fact, we had a session here this past Saturday, Mr. Chairman -- the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Admiral Mullen, General McKiernan, the...
00:53:5049 sec.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan Now, General Petraeus's prepared statement and his oral testimony here said, quote, "Iranian activities and policies constitute the major...
00:54:3910 sec.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary Absolutely, Senator. I think this is one of the topics that President Obama will be engaging with his Russian counterpart on -- actually,...
00:54:492 sec.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan They'll be exploring that possibility?
00:54:511 sec.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary Yes, absolutely.
00:54:523 sec.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan Good. Thank you. General, do you agree with that?
00:54:5530 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander Chairman, I do think that's worth exploring. There are a number of areas in which -- if there were Russian cooperation with respect to the...
00:55:2540 sec.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan On the economic side, the National Solidarity Program inside of Afghanistan has established community development councils in about 21,000...
00:56:058 sec.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary I do. I think it's one of the examples of the kind of bottom-up approach that we need to be doing more of in the Afghan context.
00:56:13	Petraeus, David H. - Commander It is, Mr. Chairman.
00:56:1360 sec.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan All right. And then my question, General, is to you, it has to do with the wonderful capability that's provided to...
00:57:1332 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander Our experience, Mr. Chairman, has always been that the more that you can get locals involved in the decision-making process, within reason...
00:57:453 sec.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan Thank you. I now call on Senator McCain.
00:57:4838 sec.	McCain, John S. III - U.S. Senator, [R] Arizona Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank the witnesses and I'd like to repeat, again, I believe that the strategy that the president and...
00:58:2624 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander Certainly there are concerns in Diyala Province and in Nineveh Province as well, Senator McCain. There are other concerns, frankly. There...
00:58:5011 sec.	McCain, John S. III - U.S. Senator, [R] Arizona So the Iranians continue -- the Iranians continue to try to meddle and interfere and harm our efforts in Iraq, including taking American...
00:59:0129 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander They do and there is a continued residual Sunni extremist element as well. Certainly al Qaeda, worldwide, if they could, would try to provide...
00:59:301 min.	McCain, John S. III - U.S. Senator, [R] Arizona Thank you. Secretary Flournoy, as I said, I support the strategy; I think it would be far, far better to announce that we will have the...
01:01:0254 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander It is a big concern. It underscores the fact that the extremist threat inside Pakistan is, indeed, the existential threat, the most important...
01:01:562 sec.	McCain, John S. III - U.S. Senator, [R] Arizona And that took a heck of a long time --
01:01:58	Petraeus, David H. - Commander It did.
01:01:5835 sec.	McCain, John S. III - U.S. Senator, [R] Arizona -- as you well know. Secretary Flournoy, Pakistan obviously is very critical. I don't think it's the determinant but we can discuss that...
01:02:333 sec.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary (Off mike.) I do not, sir.
01:02:3620 sec.	McCain, John S. III - U.S. Senator, [R] Arizona Do you think that the government -- and this is the conundrum -- of Pakistan and the military are so closely tied to ISI that it prevents...
01:02:5625 sec.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary Sir, I think ISI is a -- or parts of ISI are certainly a problem to be dealt with. But I think we have a new democratic government and I...
01:03:2115 sec.	McCain, John S. III - U.S. Senator, [R] Arizona So you see progress in trying to reduce the cooperation that exists between the Pakistani military and the ISI, which has been significant...
01:03:3611 sec.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary Sir, I don't see adequate progress at this point, but I think one of the things we're trying to do with this strategy is provide additional...
01:03:477 sec.	McCain, John S. III - U.S. Senator, [R] Arizona General Petraeus, an individual who is, I understand, a young Taliban leader named Massoud -- is that correct?
01:03:542 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander Baitullah Mehsud, the Pakistani Taliban leader.
01:03:5612 sec.	McCain, John S. III - U.S. Senator, [R] Arizona He said that there would be -- he would orchestrate -- he would arrange an attack -- there would be an attack on Washington, D.C. How seriously...
01:04:0838 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander Well, I think any time there is any threat that could be against the homeland, I think you have to take it seriously. We are doing what...
01:04:467 sec.	McCain, John S. III - U.S. Senator, [R] Arizona Well, we certainly wouldn't want to call it a global war on terror. I thank you, thank the witnesses.
01:04:532 sec.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan Thank you very much, Senator McCain. Senator Lieberman?
01:04:551 min.	Lieberman, Joseph "Joe" - U.S. Senator, [I] Connecticut Thanks, Mr. Chairman. Thanks to the three of you for your service and for the service of all those who work under your leadership, it's...
01:06:3241 sec.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary The short answer is, yes. But I believe the link is that in the Afghanistan-Pakistan border region you have continued safe haven for al-Qaeda...
01:07:1326 sec.	Lieberman, Joseph "Joe" - U.S. Senator, [I] Connecticut General Petraeus, is it fair to say that we're -- though we're focused, clearly, on al Qaeda, but that the success of -- or failure of allied...
01:07:3934 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander It is, Senator. In fact, I think a good way to describe the extremists is a term that General McKiernan uses. He calls them the syndicate....
01:08:131 min.	Lieberman, Joseph "Joe" - U.S. Senator, [I] Connecticut But one of my impressions, on both visits to the region and talking to people from Afghanistan and Pakistan here, is that there is an unsettling...
01:09:2549 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander I strongly agree with that, Senator. In fact, that's why I've repeatedly used the term "sustained, substantial commitment," as you know. In...
01:10:14	Lieberman, Joseph "Joe" - U.S. Senator, [I] Connecticut Right.
01:10:146 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander -- as do some of the DOD requests that will be coming up with the budget.
01:10:201 min.	Lieberman, Joseph "Joe" - U.S. Senator, [I] Connecticut Let me ask you a different kind of question about the command structure in Afghanistan. In Iraq, it seemed to me that you helped to put...
01:11:3620 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander Well, the first step, frankly, to achieve greater unity of effort and a cleaner command structure, if you will, was the step that we took...
01:11:56	Lieberman, Joseph "Joe" - U.S. Senator, [I] Connecticut I agree.
01:11:561 min.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander We have then begun the process of building a pretty substantial U.S. Forces Afghanistan staff to support him and to take the burden off...
01:13:4230 sec.	Lieberman, Joseph "Joe" - U.S. Senator, [I] Connecticut I thank you very much for that answer. My time's up. I just want to read one sentence from your statement that I think we all should think...
01:14:123 sec.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan Thank you, Senator Lieberman. Senator Inhofe.
01:14:151 min.	Inhofe, James M. - U.S. Senator, [R] Oklahoma Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Some times in these hearings we get bogged down in a lot of details that are very, very significant, and we need...
01:15:2155 sec.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary Senator, I would just let you know we spent a lot of time in the development of this strategy consulting with allies to try to create a...
01:16:1649 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander Senator, as part of the consultation phase of this, as the Af-Pak strategy review was launched, I went to the Munich security conference,...
01:17:05	Inhofe, James M. - U.S. Senator, [R] Oklahoma Yeah.
01:17:053 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander So this is a challenge for the alliance, without question.
01:17:0836 sec.	Inhofe, James M. - U.S. Senator, [R] Oklahoma Well, thank you. And I agree with all that. And Madame Secretary, I appreciate your phrase, create a sense of ownership. That seems to be...
01:17:4438 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander With respect to CERP, again, I think it's of enormous importance. Actually, I would support very strongly 1206, 1207 and 1208. Again, I...
01:18:2226 sec.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary I would just echo that. I mean, these tools are generally very important throughout the AOR, and globally in many cases. But they are absolutely...
01:18:483 sec.	Inhofe, James M. - U.S. Senator, [R] Oklahoma Admiral Olson, you would agree with that, with
01:18:5113 sec.	Olson, Eric T. - Commander Absolutely, sir. I have more responsibility for 1208, but the Special Operations Forces are also customers of 1206, IMET and some others....
01:19:0426 sec.	Inhofe, James M. - U.S. Senator, [R] Oklahoma Okay. Seeing Senator Ben Nelson here, I had occasion to talk to some of the Nebraska Guard on what they're doing up on the Pakistani border....
01:19:3028 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander I can't say enough about that program, actually. This is a case where the National Guard -- individual states have pulled together agriculture...
01:19:582 sec.	Inhofe, James M. - U.S. Senator, [R] Oklahoma They seem to be getting good results.
01:20:0011 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander -- (inaudible). They get very good results. They have all the attributes of soldiers in terms of being able to secure themselves, communicate...
01:20:1126 sec.	Inhofe, James M. - U.S. Senator, [R] Oklahoma I was going to -- thank you very much. I was going to get into -- there's not time, but just very briefly on the fact that I didn't learn...
01:20:3721 sec.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary Sir, we hope so. But we've thought at many points that this was resolved before, so -- but we hope that this interim arrangement will stick....
01:20:5825 sec.	Inhofe, James M. - U.S. Senator, [R] Oklahoma Okay. Well, my time is up. But lastly, Admiral Olson, you mentioned just a few minutes ago that you represented 2 percent of the budget....
01:21:2312 sec.	Olson, Eric T. - Commander I obviously don't want to get ahead of the budget discussions that are taking place now, but I do want to fully credit the investment that...
01:21:35	Inhofe, James M. - U.S. Senator, [R] Oklahoma Yes.
01:21:359 sec.	Olson, Eric T. - Commander We depend heavily on them. And each of the services carves out a portion of their budget to pile on top of that 2 percent that's peculiar...
01:21:443 sec.	Inhofe, James M. - U.S. Senator, [R] Oklahoma Yes. Well, you're doing great work. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
01:21:472 sec.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan Thank you, Senator Inhofe. Senator Bill Nelson.
01:21:4923 sec.	Nelson, Bill - U.S. Senator, [D] Florida Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good morning. Admiral, the MRAP vehicle is not necessarily well-adapted to the terrain in Afghanistan. What...
01:22:1240 sec.	Olson, Eric T. - Commander Sir, the laws of physics work against us in Afghanistan. Protection requires mass, and mass doesn't work well in the bridges and the roads...
01:22:523 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander Senator, if I could on that --
01:22:55	Nelson, Bill - U.S. Senator, [D] Florida Please.
01:22:5543 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander -- there is, in fact, a very urgent effort ongoing to let a contract for what's called currently, I think, a light MRAP. In the meantime,...
01:23:3825 sec.	Nelson, Bill - U.S. Senator, [D] Florida Last week the president stated, and I quote, "Going forward, we will not blindly stay the course. Instead, we will set clear metrics to...
01:24:0345 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander Well, in fact, there's an effort, actually an interagency effort, that includes the intelligence agencies right now, and obviously those...
01:24:4810 sec.	Nelson, Bill - U.S. Senator, [D] Florida Are those metrics -- you mentioned the IC, the intelligence community. Are these metrics such that we'll be able to discuss them in public?
01:24:5843 sec.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary Sir, I think we're in the process of developing them to complement the sort of tactical metrics the commanders on the ground are using,...
01:25:413 sec.	Nelson, Bill - U.S. Senator, [D] Florida Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
01:25:443 sec.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan Thank you, Senator Nelson. Senator Collins.
01:25:471 min.	Collins, Susan M. - U.S. Senator, [R] Maine Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Madame Secretary, let me follow up on the essential question that Senator Nelson just asked you. He's really...
01:27:121 min.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary Senator, I would just say that I think we have some very broad metrics on the Pakistani side, looking at measures of their cooperation on...
01:28:441 min.	Collins, Susan M. - U.S. Senator, [R] Maine Okay. General, you testified this morning that it is in Pakistan that al-Qaeda's senior leadership and other transnational...
01:30:112 min.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander Well, again, the effort in Pakistan, Senator, absolutely has to be one that they take forward, and one that we do everything we can to enable...
01:32:262 sec.	Collins, Susan M. - U.S. Senator, [R] Maine Thank you.
01:32:2812 sec.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan Thank you, Senator Collins. Let me now call on a senator who's had the foresight and persistence for many, many years on focusing on the...
01:32:403 min.	Nelson, Ben - U.S. Senator, [D] Nebraska Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. I am encouraged by the suggestion, Madame Secretary, that you would be willing to work with Congress...
01:36:281 min.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary Senator, let me start -- and I know that General Petraeus may want to weigh in on this as well. I think it -- you know, the leadership in...
01:37:4160 sec.	Nelson, Ben - U.S. Senator, [D] Nebraska In that regard, former ambassador and former -- and our national security adviser to the Pakistan government, Mr. Durrani, told me some...
01:38:411 min.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander We have begun that, Senator. This is why the Pakistani Counterinsurgency Capability Fund is so important. Their military operations come...
01:39:592 sec.	Nelson, Ben - U.S. Senator, [D] Nebraska Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
01:40:014 sec.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan Thank you, Senator Nelson. Senator Graham.
01:40:0526 sec.	Graham, Lindsey - U.S. Senator, [R] South Carolina Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you all for your service, particularly Admiral Olson and General Petraeus. All those under your command...
01:40:31	Olson, Eric T. - Commander Yes, sir.
01:40:3110 sec.	Graham, Lindsey - U.S. Senator, [R] South Carolina The likelihood of foreign fighters coming to Afghanistan, is that going to increase also?
01:40:41	Olson, Eric T. - Commander There is potential for that, yes, sir.
01:40:4112 sec.	Graham, Lindsey - U.S. Senator, [R] South Carolina Okay. Would you consider someone captured on the battlefield in Afghanistan an enemy combatant to be held by our forces, if we capture somebody...
01:40:533 sec.	Olson, Eric T. - Commander Sir, it depends on who that is and what he was doing in Afghanistan.
01:40:563 sec.	Graham, Lindsey - U.S. Senator, [R] South Carolina He was over there trying to kill us.
01:40:595 sec.	Olson, Eric T. - Commander Yes, sir. If he's a lawful combatant and a declared hostile person, then he's certainly -- yes.
01:41:046 sec.	Graham, Lindsey - U.S. Senator, [R] South Carolina Okay. General Petraeus, we have foreign fighters in detention now in Afghanistan. Is that correct?
01:41:103 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander It is.
01:41:132 sec.	Graham, Lindsey - U.S. Senator, [R] South Carolina What are we going to do with these people?
01:41:153 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander I am not sure about that right now.
01:41:18	Graham, Lindsey - U.S. Senator, [R] South Carolina Madame Secretary --
01:41:183 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander (Inaudible) -- my policy guidance here, if I may.
01:41:213 sec.	Graham, Lindsey - U.S. Senator, [R] South Carolina -- that is still a work in progress, I take it?
01:41:2413 sec.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary Yes, Senator. I think that the record has been that many of these we have to turn over within a certain period of time to the Afghans. Some...
01:41:375 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander Well, and we have also returned some to their home country when you're talking about international fighters.
01:41:422 sec.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary I'm sorry, I thought you were talking about Afghans.
01:41:444 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander No, I mean, that's -- but the challenge is what to do about those who --
01:41:484 sec.	Graham, Lindsey - U.S. Senator, [R] South Carolina Who are not going to be turned over.
01:41:524 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander Well, or who we can't return to the foreign country because that country doesn't treat them humanely.
01:41:569 sec.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary With the closure of -- with the planned closure of Guantanamo Bay, I think the administration is in the process of figuring out exactly...
01:42:0530 sec.	Graham, Lindsey - U.S. Senator, [R] South Carolina Mr. Chairman, I think that this committee could be helpful. We need to get ahead of this problem. There are some that will not be repatriated...
01:42:352 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander I think you'd have to take Afghanistan and Pakistan together --
01:42:37	Graham, Lindsey - U.S. Senator, [R] South Carolina Okay, those two together.
01:42:376 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander -- as a problem set, those two together, yes, sir.
01:42:433 sec.	Graham, Lindsey - U.S. Senator, [R] South Carolina And you would consider that now the central front.
01:42:464 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander In fact, our focus is truly shifting to that front.
01:42:509 sec.	Graham, Lindsey - U.S. Senator, [R] South Carolina Okay. The Kerry-Lugar legislation, how empowering would that be to our efforts in Afghanistan if the Congress would pass that?
01:42:5915 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander It would be of enormous importance, not just because of the tangible resources that it provides to Pakistan, but also because of the sense...
01:43:144 sec.	Graham, Lindsey - U.S. Senator, [R] South Carolina Do you believe we should pass that as soon as possible?
01:43:183 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander I hate to intrude in your affairs, sir, but --
01:43:21	Graham, Lindsey - U.S. Senator, [R] South Carolina Well, I asked --
01:43:212 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander -- if you're asking my best professional military advice, yes.
01:43:23	Graham, Lindsey - U.S. Senator, [R] South Carolina I am.
01:43:232 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander That's correct.
01:43:25	Graham, Lindsey - U.S. Senator, [R] South Carolina All right. But it would help the effort.
01:43:253 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander Absolutely.
01:43:28	Graham, Lindsey - U.S. Senator, [R] South Carolina Do you agree with that, Madame Secretary?
01:43:283 sec.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary Absolutely.
01:43:3115 sec.	Graham, Lindsey - U.S. Senator, [R] South Carolina Now, this idea of repatriating or absorbing some Taliban members back into the Afghan society, do you support that generally as a policy,...
01:43:4632 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander I do. Again, it's one that has to be applied. In fact, as you'll recall, it was in the Munich security speech. It is something that has...
01:44:1815 sec.	Graham, Lindsey - U.S. Senator, [R] South Carolina In a recent poll, 42 percent of Americans surveyed on that particular day said it was a mistake for the United States to have gone into...
01:44:3315 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander Well, I think it's very important to remember where all of this started, and it started with al Qaeda, transnational extremists who were...
01:44:489 sec.	Graham, Lindsey - U.S. Senator, [R] South Carolina Do you believe it's in our national interest not only to defeat al Qaeda in Afghanistan and Pakistan but to make sure that the Taliban do...
01:44:5712 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander Absolutely, Senator. When the Taliban were in power when al Qaeda was allowed and invited in to establish the sanctuaries in Afghanistan,...
01:45:0912 sec.	Graham, Lindsey - U.S. Senator, [R] South Carolina When it comes to Iran, what role are they playing, if any, regarding our efforts in Afghanistan? Are they supporting the Taliban insurgency,...
01:45:2144 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander There is a very small level of support that has been provided over the years by Iran to the Taliban that we have seen. There was a period...
01:46:0534 sec.	Graham, Lindsey - U.S. Senator, [R] South Carolina One final question. Is it fair to say, General Petraeus, that the American public can expect casualties to go up this year in Afghanistan,...
01:46:3923 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander Senator, I think that Vice President Biden had it exactly right when, after his last trip to Afghanistan and Pakistan, he said that this...
01:47:0221 sec.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary Senator, I would say there will be higher human costs and higher financial costs to this effort. Those facts were considered very carefully...
01:47:233 sec.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan Thank you, Senator Graham. Senator Udall.
01:47:261 min.	Udall, Mark - U.S. Senator, [D] Colorado Good morning, General. Good morning, Madame Secretary. Good morning, Admiral. General, I read with real interest the last day that David Kilcullen...
01:48:462 min.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander If I could just start with that, Senator. Together with my great diplomatic wing man, Ambassador Richard Holbrooke, this effort actually...
01:50:46	Udall, Mark - U.S. Senator, [D] Colorado Madame Secretary?
01:50:4656 sec.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary Senator, I think you put your finger on a really critical matter. This is the issue -- one of the issues that really...
01:51:423 sec.	Udall, Mark - U.S. Senator, [D] Colorado Admiral, do you care to comment?
01:51:4527 sec.	Olson, Eric T. - Commander Sir, I think I would just agree. It's very important to recognize the impact of India on the Pakistani psyche. It's important to recognize...
01:52:1239 sec.	Udall, Mark - U.S. Senator, [D] Colorado Yeah. There are certainly parallels between the shift we've had to make and other militaries have had to make. The preparations we made...
01:52:511 min.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander In fact, as President Zardari assumed office, there was really an unprecedented number of backs and forths between the heads of government...
01:54:144 sec.	Udall, Mark - U.S. Senator, [D] Colorado Madame Secretary, I see my time's run out, but if you could answer shortly that would be --
01:54:1823 sec.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary I would just add that the trilaterals will continue. One of the most important byproducts that we've seen from that process is that...
01:54:41	Udall, Mark - U.S. Senator, [D] Colorado Thank you.
01:54:416 sec.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan Thank you, Senator Udall. Senator Chambliss to be followed by Senator Webb.
01:54:471 min.	Chambliss, Clarence "Saxby" - U.S. Senator, [R] Georgia Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And let me thank all of our witnesses again for your great service -- be it military or public service. We appreciate...
01:56:0529 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander Throughout 2009 -- all the way out through 2009 -- the requests that were made by General McKiernan that I supported and sent forward have...
01:56:3412 sec.	Chambliss, Clarence "Saxby" - U.S. Senator, [R] Georgia I understand going forward, but I'm talking about previous requests that may have come from former commanders in theater or commanders at...
01:56:467 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander I can only talk about the period in which I've been in command since the 31st of October last year, I'm afraid, Senator.
01:56:535 sec.	Chambliss, Clarence "Saxby" - U.S. Senator, [R] Georgia Okay. Secretary Flournoy, do you have any comment on that?
01:56:5854 sec.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary Sir, I do believe that there have been some requests that have not been fulfilled and the one that we looked at very closely in the review...
01:57:521 min.	Chambliss, Clarence "Saxby" - U.S. Senator, [R] Georgia Okay. Secretary Flournoy, General Petraeus made a statement -- I want to make sure I'm quoting you right, General, so if I say anything incorrect,...
01:59:2453 sec.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary The meeting at The Hague was really to bring them into the discussion of Afghanistan, because they have been part of the problem in Afghanistan....
02:00:1730 sec.	Chambliss, Clarence "Saxby" - U.S. Senator, [R] Georgia Picking up again on Senator Graham's question with relation to the prisoners in Afghanistan that are there today, and ones that may be taken...
02:00:473 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander That is part of a review that's ongoing, Senator.
02:00:5012 sec.	Chambliss, Clarence "Saxby" - U.S. Senator, [R] Georgia If we should pick up a high-value target in Afghanistan, what would happen to that high-value target? Where would they go?
02:01:025 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander They would go to the theater internment facility at Bagram.
02:01:079 sec.	Chambliss, Clarence "Saxby" - U.S. Senator, [R] Georgia Okay. Secretary Flournoy, is there any potential for any of those prisoners to be transferred to U.S. soil? Is that under contemplation?
02:01:169 sec.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary Sir, I know this is a policy that is under review and I am not aware of the details of where this is coming out, but I can get back to you...
02:01:253 sec.	Chambliss, Clarence "Saxby" - U.S. Senator, [R] Georgia Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
02:01:283 sec.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan Thank you, Senator Chambliss. Senator Webb.
02:01:311 min.	Webb, James "Jim" H. - U.S. Senator, [D] Virginia Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Secretary Flournoy, let me start by asking you a question. First, I would say I appreciate...
02:03:071 min.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary Senator, I think it is an open question, and I think we need to test the proposition. And I think one of the things that is a -- that is...
02:04:091 min.	Webb, James "Jim" H. - U.S. Senator, [D] Virginia I would also submit that there should be ways to try to measure the true incentive, not simply from the current top leadership in Pakistan,...
02:05:3051 sec.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary Sir, I'll give you my answer and then let the person who asked the question try to give his. (Laughs.) But -- I think that a key point of...
02:06:216 sec.	Webb, James "Jim" H. - U.S. Senator, [D] Virginia That puts us sort of at the mercy of their policies. General, can you give me a more practical -- (word inaudible)?
02:06:273 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander Well, I guess I'd echo that --
02:06:304 sec.	Webb, James "Jim" H. - U.S. Senator, [D] Virginia Or maybe more mechanical. What physically -- how are we going to know?
02:06:3435 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander Well, I think, again, frankly, in Iraq we have known when we were able to transition responsibilities to not just the Iraqi security forces,...
02:07:0917 sec.	Webb, James "Jim" H. - U.S. Senator, [D] Virginia When is the last time that Afghanistan had an actual functioning national army that could clearly be said to be in control of operations...
02:07:263 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander Probably more than 30 years ago, at least, Senator Webb --
02:07:29	Webb, James "Jim" H. - U.S. Senator, [D] Virginia If then.
02:07:2937 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander -- in the '70s, in that period. And certainly it was a combination of security arrangements. But I think that as a student of history as...
02:08:0637 sec.	Webb, James "Jim" H. - U.S. Senator, [D] Virginia I would say, perhaps, a brief period, more than 30 years ago for about 30 years, you could say that there was some sort of a functioning...
02:08:431 min.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander Well, it will literally vary from location to location. The options, of course, are local police; their version of national police, the...
02:10:128 sec.	Webb, James "Jim" H. - U.S. Senator, [D] Virginia Right. So it -- largely will depend on the confidence and the will power of the local Afghanis --
02:10:20	Petraeus, David H. - Commander Exactly.
02:10:203 sec.	Webb, James "Jim" H. - U.S. Senator, [D] Virginia Right. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
02:10:234 sec.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan Thank you, Senator Webb. Senator Sessions.
02:10:2747 sec.	Sessions, Jefferson "Jeff" - U.S. Senator, [R] Alabama Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Well, General Petraeus, I asked Secretary Gates about, in effect, what kind of unease he had and -- about moving...
02:11:1457 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander Senator, the concern there is that, taking into account Afghanistan's history and the people that -- who have never looked kindly on those...
02:12:116 sec.	Sessions, Jefferson "Jeff" - U.S. Senator, [R] Alabama You're satisfied that that's given enough attention in your plans?
02:12:1710 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander I am. It is something we will need to continue to work on, as with civilian casualties, as with a number of other activities that -- (inaudible). (Cross...
02:12:2710 sec.	Sessions, Jefferson "Jeff" - U.S. Senator, [R] Alabama Now, we do have this shortage of trainers still, do we not, to reach the level of training the Afghan army that we'd like it to --
02:12:371 min.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander We do, and I actually made a note that I want to see what that will be when we project out, with the addition of the 4th Brigade of the...
02:13:4933 sec.	Sessions, Jefferson "Jeff" - U.S. Senator, [R] Alabama Well, we learn as we go. And anybody that thinks that -- I think the reason we have to learn and change is because the enemy does not desire...
02:14:2231 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander Absolutely, Senator. And you'll recall in the counterinsurgency guidance that you read that we had in Iraq, that the final bullet on there...
02:14:5342 sec.	Sessions, Jefferson "Jeff" - U.S. Senator, [R] Alabama Secretary Flournoy, I won't repeat questions about the Pakistan situation, but Pakistan has been a long-time ally of the United States....
02:15:352 sec.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary I couldn't agree more, Senator.
02:15:371 min.	Sessions, Jefferson "Jeff" - U.S. Senator, [R] Alabama Sometimes I hear our talking heads and our politicians talk about Pakistan like we can order them around. This is a sovereign nation and...
02:16:4532 sec.	Olson, Eric T. - Commander Sir, I'll ask those who have a better knowledge of the total count to weigh in if they disagree. But I believe the total number of U.S....
02:17:1733 sec.	Sessions, Jefferson "Jeff" - U.S. Senator, [R] Alabama Well, they did a fabulous job. They're not able to -- 2,000, not able to run the whole country of Afghanistan or help it be secure, but...
02:17:5019 sec.	Olson, Eric T. - Commander Again, I'm not going to get ahead of the budget discussions on this one point yet. But as I said earlier, we are robust enough to meet the...
02:18:0923 sec.	Sessions, Jefferson "Jeff" - U.S. Senator, [R] Alabama Do you feel like that your people are stressed to a level that they can't sustain now? Of course, I would hope there was some reduction...
02:18:3212 sec.	Olson, Eric T. - Commander Sir, I think we're operating at a pace that we can sustain. There is unmet demand for Special Operations capability around the world, but...
02:18:4428 sec.	Sessions, Jefferson "Jeff" - U.S. Senator, [R] Alabama That's good. General Petraeus, I would just say thank you to your soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines. I know that I remember so vividly...
02:19:123 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander I agree, Senator.
02:19:152 sec.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan Thank you, Senator Sessions. Senator McCaskill.
02:19:1714 sec.	McCaskill, Claire - U.S. Senator, [D] Missouri Thank you, Mr. Chairman. General Petraeus or Secretary Flournoy, either one, can you give me an estimate of how many contracting personnel...
02:19:3110 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander I cannot, Senator. We can do a scrub of that and see what the projection is, but I cannot give that to you right now.
02:19:4135 sec.	McCaskill, Claire - U.S. Senator, [D] Missouri And I think you probably understand, Secretary Flournoy, why I'm concerned. As we moved into Iraq, if somebody would have told us in the...
02:20:1651 sec.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary Senator, I can assure you that Secretary Gates has asked the same question. He wants to understand what the contractor support footprint...
02:21:079 sec.	McCaskill, Claire - U.S. Senator, [D] Missouri Well, I -- and is there a new operational plan for the new strategy?
02:21:161 min.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander There is an existing military campaign plan, Senator, that incorporates already these forces because these requests were made and they've...
02:22:382 min.	McCaskill, Claire - U.S. Senator, [D] Missouri I would like to deprive him of as much work as possible. I would like us not to have 400 or 500 different reports on how badly we have handled...
02:24:388 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander Well, first of all, we actually have a plan that is to bring down the number of contractors. And I can share that slide with you --
02:24:46	McCaskill, Claire - U.S. Senator, [D] Missouri That would be terrific.
02:24:462 min.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander -- in fact because we've put a great deal of emphasis on this. And also, to the point the secretary made, we have had an effort ongoing...
02:26:53	McCaskill, Claire - U.S. Senator, [D] Missouri Right.
02:26:5319 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander I think there are now going to be five, but I don't want to speak for the Army on that. But again, all of these efforts are hugely important,...
02:27:123 sec.	McCaskill, Claire - U.S. Senator, [D] Missouri Secretary.
02:27:1535 sec.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary I think actually General Petraeus covered a lot of the ground I was just going to add. But the one thing I will say on the issue of revising...
02:27:5044 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander If I could add to that, Senator. In fact, there is an existing military campaign plan, but the piece that very much needs to be added now...
02:28:3433 sec.	McCaskill, Claire - U.S. Senator, [D] Missouri Well, and in the contracting area particularly, we had a little bit of this always going on, you know. AID said, well, they aren't letting...
02:29:073 sec.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan Thank you, Senator McCaskill. Senator Martinez.
02:29:1010 sec.	Martinez, Mel - U.S. Senator, [R] Florida Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. Welcome, all, Admiral Olson, Secretary. And General Petraeus, I wanted to thank you for hosting me on Monday...
02:29:20	Petraeus, David H. - Commander It was great to have you, sir.
02:29:208 sec.	Martinez, Mel - U.S. Senator, [R] Florida General Hood and General Allen were very kind, and we had a very good briefing. And I appreciate that very much. We continue to be very...
02:29:28	Petraeus, David H. - Commander Proud to be there, Senator.
02:29:2840 sec.	Martinez, Mel - U.S. Senator, [R] Florida Nice to have you, sir. I know some of this has perhaps been asked, but I wanted to just dip in a little bit more into the area of fully...
02:30:081 min.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary Sir, the way this was presented to the president was sort of on a time line of when decisions would have to be made in order for troops...
02:31:195 sec.	Martinez, Mel - U.S. Senator, [R] Florida I guess what I'm trying to understand is the level of commitment. If the troops were needed, would they be sent?
02:31:2430 sec.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary I think this president has demonstrated with not only the troops you mentioned, there are also some additional enablers. I mean, we've gone...
02:31:5450 sec.	Martinez, Mel - U.S. Senator, [R] Florida And I don't underestimate the importance of the civilian and economic side which I think are tremendously important in this effort, as they...
02:32:4449 sec.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary Sir, we have been in consultation with NATO and with many of our NATO allies bilaterally in the development of the strategy. I will be going...
02:33:3337 sec.	Martinez, Mel - U.S. Senator, [R] Florida That's great. Good luck in that and appreciate your efforts in that regard. General Petraeus, I was going to ask you regarding Iran, there seemed...
02:34:1060 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander Well, there certainly are some shared concerns, Senator. And as you know, in the beginning they did play a part...
02:35:1035 sec.	Martinez, Mel - U.S. Senator, [R] Florida I understand. I suppose we don't have a really clear indication, as it's always difficult to read where they may be coming from and I guess...
02:35:4531 sec.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary I think it's a very important development that we've -- we're engaging them, we're bringing them to the table. They have a long-standing,...
02:36:1620 sec.	Martinez, Mel - U.S. Senator, [R] Florida Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Let me just in closing, General Petraeus, just say a word of thanks to you and your leadership, as well as your...
02:36:36	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan Thank you, Senator.
02:36:368 sec.	Martinez, Mel - U.S. Senator, [R] Florida And I guess, Admiral Olson, I shouldn't overlook the very great contribution of the special forces to this effort as well. Thank you.
02:36:442 sec.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan Thank you, Senator Martinez. Senator Begich?
02:36:4640 sec.	Begich, Mark - U.S. Senator, [D] Alaska Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I echo the comments that the senator just said and really appreciate the work you all have done. It's...
02:37:263 min.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander There are -- actually there are several, Senator. The residual capacity that, as I mentioned, Iran does continue to provide support for...
02:40:4531 sec.	Begich, Mark - U.S. Senator, [D] Alaska Thank you very much. I have another quick one, a follow up to Senator McCaskill's question regarding the -- as you deal with the contractors...
02:41:1640 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander I believe that we are. We have learned some tough lessons in this arena, as you know, and in other accountability arenas, frankly, over...
02:41:561 min.	Begich, Mark - U.S. Senator, [D] Alaska Thank you very much. I'm going to shift now, if I can, to Afghanistan and look toward any one of you -- but I'll start with you, General. I'm...
02:43:171 min.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander It is a concern, Senator. For what it's worth, not only did I obviously oversee the production of that manual and actually got into some...
02:44:39	Begich, Mark - U.S. Senator, [D] Alaska Madame Secretary?
02:44:398 sec.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary Senator, if I could just -- there were several faithful students of General Petraeus's manual in the strategy review.
02:44:474 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander She was present at the very first seminar as we developed that manual.
02:44:5160 sec.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary We actually had several discussions on this very issue. What I will tell you is, we asked the intelligence community to give us their best...
02:45:5141 sec.	Begich, Mark - U.S. Senator, [D] Alaska Thank you. My time is up and I'm also late for a noon event, but let me ask you if I could if you could prepare or share whatever level...
02:46:3222 sec.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan Thank you, Senator Begich. We'll just have a three or four minute second round; there's only a few of us here so hopefully you'll be able...
02:46:5414 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander There is a request for forces for those elements, Senator, and it did move through me. My understanding is that it has not been sent beyond...
02:47:089 sec.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan Has that been sent -- I should look to you then Secretary Flournoy -- has that been sent by Secretary Gates? Has that request been made...
02:47:1715 sec.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary The request was laid out along with all of the others on a timeline. And what the president was told is that that request is out there but...
02:47:32	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan Make the decision?
02:47:3225 sec.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary -- make the decision until the fall so that the troops would arrive as planned in 2010. So that -- I think the president was focused on...
02:47:575 sec.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan So that decision will be made in a timely way so that the troops, if the president --
02:48:02	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary (Inaudible).
02:48:028 sec.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan -- so determines can get there on the timeline that General McKiernan has requested them. Is that a fair statement?
02:48:10	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary Yes.
02:48:102 sec.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan Is that -- do you agree with that, General Petraeus?
02:48:122 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander Well it would begin --
02:48:144 sec.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary But they'd also may be -- (Cross talk.) -- changing.
02:48:18	Petraeus, David H. - Commander -- to make the --
02:48:186 sec.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan No, it's up to the -- (Cross talk.) -- the president will decide whether or not to --
02:48:24	Petraeus, David H. - Commander Right.
02:48:245 sec.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan If he decides in the fall to approve those 10,000 --
02:48:29	Petraeus, David H. - Commander Absolutely.
02:48:2911 sec.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan -- they would then arrive in a timely fashion according to a timetable which General McKiernan more importantly I guess you, you're the...
02:48:40	Petraeus, David H. - Commander That's correct, Senator.
02:48:4019 sec.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan Okay. So it's not like it's rejected or deferred, it's just that a decision will be made in a timely way one way or the other. And if it's...
02:48:59	Petraeus, David H. - Commander That's correct Chairman.
02:48:591 min.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan Okay. Just one -- sort of a comment and a question on this aid for Pakistan, the money which has been or will be requested, I guess it's called...
02:50:1750 sec.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary Senator, I think we're all looking for those indications that the intent of the assistance would be met. What I can tell you in this intensive...
02:51:0730 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander Senator, can I just note by the way that your comments similar to that were in the newspaper I think it was yesterday, the comments that...
02:51:371 min.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan All right. Now finally, it's a different aspect of the same problem. We cannot appear to be buying support for our policies, it's got to...
02:53:19	Petraeus, David H. - Commander Chairman --
02:53:19	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan -- pursue it?
02:53:1941 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander -- in fact in all of the recent studies, there has been a recognition of the importance of moving from what we have terms a transactional...
02:54:001 min.	Olson, Eric T. - Commander Senator Levin, I think a point worth making is that as we strive for an increased and enhanced relationship, partnership with Pakistan,...
02:55:282 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander And I would echo that, Chairman.
02:55:30	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan Thank you. Senator Lieberman.
02:55:302 min.	Lieberman, Joseph "Joe" - U.S. Senator, [I] Connecticut Thanks very much. Mr. Chairman. Thanks to all of you. I want to make two quick statements and ask one question. The first statement is to...
02:58:264 sec.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan Time is up. (Laughter.)
02:58:3045 sec.	Lieberman, Joseph "Joe" - U.S. Senator, [I] Connecticut My question is this, I thought the president spoke very eloquently on Friday about the fact that there hadn't been adequate civil military...
02:59:151 min.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary I would just say we're working it at multiple levels at this sort of operational level if you will or the strategic operational levels,...
03:00:22	Lieberman, Joseph "Joe" - U.S. Senator, [I] Connecticut Good.
03:00:222 sec.	Flournoy, Michele A. - Undersecretary -- (inaudible).
03:00:24	Lieberman, Joseph "Joe" - U.S. Senator, [I] Connecticut General?
03:00:2424 sec.	Petraeus, David H. - Commander Well, in fact there's direction already been given to call Eikenberry, General Eikenberry right now who I think was reported out of committee...
03:00:4840 sec.	Lieberman, Joseph "Joe" - U.S. Senator, [I] Connecticut Excellent, very encouraging. Thank you all, I will tell you that three of you, the testimony has been really excellent and really the three...
03:01:281 min.	Levin, Carl - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan I think you heard hear this morning a great deal of support for the president's direction and strategy. It's cohesive, it's strong, it's...