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00:00:3915 min.
Reyes, Silvestre - U.S. Representative, [D] Texas

Good morning. The committee will please come to

order. Today we convene the first public hearing of the House

Permanent Select Committee...

00:16:158 min.
Hoekstra, Peter - U.S. Representative, [R] Michigan

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Welcome, Director. It's good to have you here. This is always a very

interesting hearing. It is really one of the...

00:25:061 min.
Reyes, Silvestre - U.S. Representative, [D] Texas

Thank you, Mr. Hoekstra. And I want to remind our

members and witnesses that we are in open session this morning. If

there is doubt about...

00:27:0552 sec.
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

Do I have to do something? Oh, there we go. It

seems that it's on now. But it seems that there are two sets of

questions that you're concerned...

00:27:573 sec.
Reyes, Silvestre - U.S. Representative, [D] Texas

That is satisfactory. You can proceed.

00:28:0016 min.
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

All right then. Then, gentlemen, ladies, my

assessment is based on the work of thousands of patriotic, hard-

working, both collectors and...

00:44:568 sec.
Reyes, Silvestre - U.S. Representative, [D] Texas

Thank you, Mr. Director, and I will save my

questions for later and yield my time to the vice chair of the

committee.

00:45:046 min.
Hastings, Alcee L. - U.S. Representative, [D] Florida

Thank you very much, Mr.

Chairman.

Mr. Chairman, let me congratulate you on holding this

hearing and Mr. Director, Admiral, as others...

00:51:043 sec.
Reyes, Silvestre - U.S. Representative, [D] Texas

Thank you, Mr. Hastings. Mr. Hoekstra?

00:51:0740 sec.
Hoekstra, Peter - U.S. Representative, [R] Michigan

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Director, I didn't

hear you address some of the questions that I had brought up about --

you talked about the...

00:51:476 min.
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

Yes, sir. Let me turn to some of these

organizational issues and management issues. First, on diversity,

raised by Congressman Hastings,...

00:58:263 sec.
Hoekstra, Peter - U.S. Representative, [R] Michigan

Thank you, Mr. Director. Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

00:58:2912 sec.
Reyes, Silvestre - U.S. Representative, [D] Texas

Thank you, Mr. Hoekstra. Mr. Tierney? Mr. Tierney

is not here? Then, Mr. Thompson.

00:58:415 min.
Thornberry, William "Mac" McClellan - U.S. Representative, [R] Texas

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Director, thank you very much for being here. I had a couple of

comments and a couple of questions. I want to reiterate...

01:03:516 sec.
Reyes, Silvestre - U.S. Representative, [D] Texas

Mr. Director, if you will take a couple of his

points and then answer the rest for the record so that we have enough

time for members to...

01:03:5737 sec.
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

Very -- I'll just go quickly. An integrated

Pakistan strategy is what we are working on right now in the

administration. We are part of...

01:04:3419 sec.
Thornberry, William "Mac" McClellan - U.S. Representative, [R] Texas

Thank you, Chairman.

Director, in your statement, you say that sustained pressure against

al Qaeda in the FATA has the potential to further...

01:04:532 sec.
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

They get stronger.

01:04:554 sec.
Thornberry, William "Mac" McClellan - U.S. Representative, [R] Texas

And does the threat that it poses to us grow?

01:04:59
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

Yes.

01:04:5927 sec.
Thornberry, William "Mac" McClellan - U.S. Representative, [R] Texas

You say a few pages later in the statement that

al Qaeda leaders use this tribal area as a base from which to avoid

capture, produce propaganda,...

01:05:2634 sec.
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

Right now, that is where their headquarters is,

Mr. Thornberry.

And they've operated from other places in the past.

In Africa, there...

01:06:0015 sec.
Thornberry, William "Mac" McClellan - U.S. Representative, [R] Texas

But based on your previous answer, my

impression is that you believe it's important to keep that pressure on

in this area, understanding...

01:06:153 sec.
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

And that would be better for us. When they're

moving, they're more vulnerable.

01:06:1832 sec.
Thornberry, William "Mac" McClellan - U.S. Representative, [R] Texas

Okay, that'd be better. Let me switch briefly

to Iraq. The president said last night -- he talked about ending the

war, withdrawing troops....

01:06:5012 sec.
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

There's an intelligence basis for the decisions

that the administration is in the process of making and hasn't quite

announced yet. And...

01:07:0254 sec.
Thornberry, William "Mac" McClellan - U.S. Representative, [R] Texas

Okay, well, just thinking back, my perception

is that in the course of Iraq, situations have changed on the ground

and we were slow to recognize...

01:07:5660 sec.
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

Sir, I think the intelligence community has two

roles in this policy process. Number one is where we are with a lot

of policies with this...

01:08:5610 sec.
Thornberry, William "Mac" McClellan - U.S. Representative, [R] Texas

Well, I'd just say we all welcome it. And we

all need that -- the best judgments that our community can provide.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman....

01:09:062 sec.
Reyes, Silvestre - U.S. Representative, [D] Texas

Thank you, Mr. Thornberry. Mr. Boren.

01:09:082 min.
Boren, David "Dan" - U.S. Representative, [D] Oklahoma

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I

want to congratulate you, Director Blair, on your new position. I

know you'll do a fabulous job. I have a few...

01:11:2956 sec.
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

Sir, on the first question, any time that there

is a executive branch action body like out of the Department of

Defense or the Department...

01:12:254 sec.
Boren, David "Dan" - U.S. Representative, [D] Oklahoma

Okay, I look forward to working with you in the

future. And I yield back, Mr. Chairman.

01:12:293 sec.
Reyes, Silvestre - U.S. Representative, [D] Texas

Thank you, Mr. Boren. Mr. Miller?

01:12:3221 sec.
Miller, Jeff - U.S. Representative, [R] Florida

Thank you very much, Mr.

Chairman.

I too will be working with my colleague, Mr. Boren, in

focusing on the continent of Africa as well...

01:12:5311 sec.
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

I can tell you, as an intelligence assessment,

that the damage it has done to the international American reputation

makes it difficult for...

01:13:044 sec.
Miller, Jeff - U.S. Representative, [R] Florida

That's a political reason but not an operational

reason.

01:13:088 sec.
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

I mean, it's a realistic reason. Countries

won't deal with us. Our popularity is down. We don't have blue chips

to trade for other things...

01:13:1612 sec.
Miller, Jeff - U.S. Representative, [R] Florida

Thirty days ago, the president did sign the

executive order to close Guantanamo. What consultation was done with

the intelligence community...

01:13:2817 sec.
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

Full consultation, meetings with the officials

at the CIA, representatives in the drafting committees that draft the

executive orders. There...

01:13:4539 sec.
Miller, Jeff - U.S. Representative, [R] Florida

In looking at your opening statement, I didn't see

anywhere in the statement -- and if I missed it, I apologize -- that

you talk about a...

01:14:2433 sec.
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

You mentioned that yesterday, Congressman

Miller. And I've been giving some thought to it. The primary

objective of al Qaeda in the United...

01:14:5710 sec.
Miller, Jeff - U.S. Representative, [R] Florida

Thank you, sir. And moving to Pakistan, the

Zardari government, does he have the full support of the Pakistani

army right now?

01:15:072 sec.
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

President Zardari? The Pakistani army?

01:15:094 sec.
Miller, Jeff - U.S. Representative, [R] Florida

Of the army.

01:15:1315 sec.
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

I talked with General Kayani about two days ago.

And he supports his president, so that much is sure. And that much is

important.

01:15:287 sec.
Miller, Jeff - U.S. Representative, [R] Florida

What is the intelligence community's assessment of

the stability right now in Pakistan that you can give in an

unclassified setting?

01:15:3534 sec.
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

I'd rather give details in a closed session, if

I might, Congressman Miller. But it is one of the countries that we

feel is dealing with...

01:16:0934 sec.
Miller, Jeff - U.S. Representative, [R] Florida

You know, one of the -- I think, one of the biggest

disappointments that I've had in watching what's happened in

Afghanistan in particular...

01:16:4353 sec.
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

I've watched various campaigns over the years

against both opium crops and against cocaine problems. And it seems

that they are -- they...

01:17:362 sec.
Miller, Jeff - U.S. Representative, [R] Florida

Thank you, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

01:17:382 sec.
Reyes, Silvestre - U.S. Representative, [D] Texas

Thank you, Mr. Miller. Mr. Schiff?

01:17:404 min.
Schiff, Adam B. - U.S. Representative, [D] California

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr.

Director, thank you for being with us. I wanted to follow up a bit on

our conversation yesterday on the detainee...

01:21:501 min.
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

Yes, sir. As you know, one of the three

executive orders is directed to exactly the question that you raised:

What do we do going forward,...

01:23:48
Schiff, Adam B. - U.S. Representative, [D] California

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

01:23:485 sec.
Reyes, Silvestre - U.S. Representative, [D] Texas

Thank you, Mr. Schiff. Mr. Conaway?

01:23:5317 sec.
Conaway, K. "Mike" Michael - U.S. Representative, [R] Texas

Thank you, Mr.

Chairman.

Admiral, welcome aboard. I just got here as well, so

looking forward to this service. You mentioned a phrase...

01:24:102 sec.
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

I must have either said it wrong or --

01:24:124 sec.
Conaway, K. "Mike" Michael - U.S. Representative, [R] Texas

You said the intent of al Qaeda in America is to

01:24:162 sec.
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

Oh, oh, I'm sorry. The intent of al Qaeda in

America as a target --

01:24:182 sec.
Conaway, K. "Mike" Michael - U.S. Representative, [R] Texas

Okay, thank you.

01:24:2011 sec.
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

But there are, in fact, al Qaeda sympathizers in

this country who would be involved in such an attack. So no, we

haven't formed a phrase...

01:24:3152 sec.
Conaway, K. "Mike" Michael - U.S. Representative, [R] Texas

All right. America-bashing is a very popular

sport -- always will be -- I mean, envy is something that I think it's

involved. You know,...

01:25:2342 sec.
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

I'm going to step out of my intelligence role

for just a second, because I've been sort of in the operational role,

and say there's going...

01:26:0537 sec.
Conaway, K. "Mike" Michael - U.S. Representative, [R] Texas

Okay. And I understand there's a tension there,

but as long as we can't use that as our own excuse to do something

that's not in our own...

01:26:421 min.
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

Unfortunately, many of those Cold War systems

are aging out, like satellites and things like that, and need to be

replaced. And we're in...

01:27:4423 sec.
Conaway, K. "Mike" Michael - U.S. Representative, [R] Texas

In that regard, and again, you've only been there

a very short period of time, are there gaps that you would feel

comfortable talking about...

01:28:075 sec.
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

Yes, sir, there are gaps. I'd rather talk about

them in closed session, if I might.

01:28:125 sec.
Conaway, K. "Mike" Michael - U.S. Representative, [R] Texas

All right. Admiral Blair, I'm looking forward to

working with you. Thank you for it, and I yield back.

01:28:175 sec.
Reyes, Silvestre - U.S. Representative, [D] Texas

Thank you, Mr. Conaway. Mr. Langevin?

01:28:222 min.
Langevin, James "Jim" - U.S. Representative, [D] Rhode Island

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Director, thank you for being here and for your service.

I want to turn my attention to the...

01:31:042 min.
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

Thank you very much. I think there's one key

aspect of this future cyber strategy which this committee and your

counterpart in the other...

01:33:3838 sec.
Langevin, James "Jim" - U.S. Representative, [D] Rhode Island

And I know my time was expired, but I just want

to say that I agree with your assessment about the NSA. I think that

a great disservice...

01:34:1625 sec.
Reyes, Silvestre - U.S. Representative, [D] Texas

Thank you, Mr. Langevin. Before I go to Mr. Kline,

I just want to remind members, we'll probably be voting between 11:00

and 11:30. We should...

01:34:4155 sec.
Kline, John - U.S. Representative, [R] Minnesota

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good

morning, director, welcome. I want to pick up, if I can, with the

discussion we had yesterday to the extent...

01:35:3630 sec.
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

Yes, sir. I would like to clear that up. The

executive order specifies that the Army Field Manual will be the basis

for interrogation techniques...

01:36:0623 sec.
Kline, John - U.S. Representative, [R] Minnesota

Thank you. I just wanted to kind of get that on the

record because I believe what your answer is, is that we do not know

right now what...

01:36:292 min.
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

To review.

To review. But right now, pending that review, the

Army Field Manual techniques do apply to the intelligence community.

So...

01:38:511 min.
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

I am -- that's a high-priority problem and I've

looked into it in some depth in my first few weeks on the job because

of the importance....

01:40:394 sec.
Kline, John - U.S. Representative, [R] Minnesota

Thank you. And I'm looking forward to that visit.

Again, welcome aboard. I yield back.

01:40:433 sec.
Reyes, Silvestre - U.S. Representative, [D] Texas

Thank you, Mr. Kline. Ms. Schakowsky?

01:40:463 min.
Schakowsky, Janice "Jan" - U.S. Representative, [D] Illinois

Mr. Chairman and ranking

member. First let me thank you so much for having this open hearing.

I think it is incredibly useful for the American...

01:44:051 min.
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

Ma'am, on Bagram, I think the exact same sort of

issues are there as -- not the exact same -- but many of the same

issues there as are being...

01:45:114 sec.
Schakowsky, Janice "Jan" - U.S. Representative, [D] Illinois

Thank you.

01:45:155 sec.
Reyes, Silvestre - U.S. Representative, [D] Texas

Thank you, Ms. Schakowsky. Mr. Ruppersberger.

01:45:203 min.
Ruppersberger, C.A. "Dutch" - U.S. Representative, [D] Maryland

Yeah, I'd like to get

back into the area of cyber-security. Mr. Langevin brought up the

issue. It's something extremely important to our...

01:48:2635 sec.
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

I agree with you that we need to have open

descriptions of some of the damage that has been caused by recent

attacks. And I'm sure, having...

01:49:0113 sec.
Ruppersberger, C.A. "Dutch" - U.S. Representative, [D] Maryland

It could be al Qaeda; it could be other

countries. One thing I'm going to point out, though, that I think is

important since this is a public...

01:49:1418 sec.
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

I think you have that right. Yes, sir. We play

a big role in the Internet. As you know, it's an international body

that governs it. I think,...

01:49:32
Ruppersberger, C.A. "Dutch" - U.S. Representative, [D] Maryland

Partnership.

01:49:3247 sec.
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

Partnership to move forward because the owners

of most of the servers and fiberoptic cables and all are private

companies. On that front,...

01:50:195 sec.
Ruppersberger, C.A. "Dutch" - U.S. Representative, [D] Maryland

Well, there's a lot of work to do and I look

forward to working with you.

01:50:24
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

Sure.

01:50:2421 sec.
Reyes, Silvestre - U.S. Representative, [D] Texas

Thank you, Mr. Ruppersberger. Votes have just been

called and I would remind members that the new policy is they'll go

two minutes beyond...

01:50:451 min.
Holt, Rush - U.S. Representative, [D] New Jersey

HOLT (D-NJ): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

And, Mr. Director, again, congratulations. You have a lot of the

skill and background necessary to...

01:52:2560 sec.
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

For those questions, I'm reminded of that song,

"Some kind of help is the kind of help that help is all about and some

kind of help is the...

01:53:255 sec.
Holt, Rush - U.S. Representative, [D] New Jersey

So, more specifically, was it appropriate in those

circumstances that I mentioned? I think you know what I'm talking

about.

01:53:3014 sec.
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

Right. And on that question of fully and

currently informing the committees, I follow the law, Congressman

Holt. It says that this committee...

01:53:4417 sec.
Holt, Rush - U.S. Representative, [D] New Jersey

So you would do it differently. In other words, it

was inappropriate, you're saying, not to brief Congress about that

surveillance program?...

01:54:0131 sec.
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

I'd really rather talk about going forward

rather than looking back because that's what I can affect, sir. And I

will be leaning forward....

01:54:3215 sec.
Holt, Rush - U.S. Representative, [D] New Jersey

Yeah, which -- what I'm talking about, I just want to

set some benchmarks here because what I'm talking about, you know, we

were not briefed...

01:54:475 sec.
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

There is no case that I know of in which no one

should be briefed about an intelligence activity in this Congress.

01:54:526 sec.
Holt, Rush - U.S. Representative, [D] New Jersey

That helps. How am I doing on time, Mr. Chairman?

01:54:58
Reyes, Silvestre - U.S. Representative, [D] Texas

Less than a minute.

01:54:581 min.
Holt, Rush - U.S. Representative, [D] New Jersey

Less than a minute. Well, let me ask for the record,

then, you've listed a number of specifics. If you were to look at all

of the risks,...

01:55:598 sec.
Reyes, Silvestre - U.S. Representative, [D] Texas

If you can hit just a couple of those because I want

to leave time for Ms. Eshoo so we finish up the open session.

01:56:0731 sec.
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

I'll just say quickly that the greatest threats

I think do lay in that convergence between non-state actors and

weapons of mass destruction....

01:56:386 sec.
Holt, Rush - U.S. Representative, [D] New Jersey

So if you could look at the top three later and tell

us how you think the match of resources, the allocation of resources

matches?

01:56:44
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

Yes, sir.

01:56:442 sec.
Reyes, Silvestre - U.S. Representative, [D] Texas

Ms. Eshoo.

01:56:462 min.
Eshoo, Anna G. - U.S. Representative, [D] California

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good

morning, Mr. Director. The last question really segues very well into

mine: I think the ultimate nightmare...

01:59:051 min.
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

On those two questions, ma'am, on A.Q. Khan, I'd

rather answer in closed session in more detail. But it deserves an

answer in open forum,...

02:00:0926 sec.
Eshoo, Anna G. - U.S. Representative, [D] California

But there's a whole pool of expertise that has

existed within the intelligence community. And so I think maybe we

need to follow up on that...

02:00:3514 sec.
Reyes, Silvestre - U.S. Representative, [D] Texas

Thank you, Ms. Eshoo. And there is less than four

minutes left but 400 members yet to show up to vote. So we will at

this point conclude...

02:00:494 sec.
Holt, Rush - U.S. Representative, [D] New Jersey

Mr. Chairman, since there seems to be a moment, may I

follow up on --

02:00:53
Reyes, Silvestre - U.S. Representative, [D] Texas

Very briefly.

02:00:5332 sec.
Holt, Rush - U.S. Representative, [D] New Jersey

Very briefly. There is precedent for making the

intelligence community resources available for climate change studies,

the so-called MEDEA...

02:01:256 sec.
Blair, Dennis C. - Director

That's a good question. Let me look into that

and get back to you and Congressman Eshoo, please, since I don't have

that on the tip of my...

02:01:31
Holt, Rush - U.S. Representative, [D] New Jersey

Thank you.

02:01:3117 sec.
Reyes, Silvestre - U.S. Representative, [D] Texas

Thank you, Mr. Holt. And thank you, Director Blair.

And with that, the open hearing is adjourned. And we will reconvene

after votes for...

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