Good afternoon, everybody. Today we welcome General

Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker for their update on the situation in

Iraq.

We...

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank

the witnesses, obviously, and I am - all of us are aware that you've

been literally...

May I interrupt you for one moment?

If you choose, both of you or each of you may reduce

and summarize, if you so choose, because of the fact that your

statements have been...

All right. It didn't take much suggesting then, to

do that.

That's fine. Do it -- do it as you wish.

Thank you very much, General.

That's your call, Ambassador. Thank you.

General Petraeus, General Jones and his very distinguished

commission, a very experienced, independent...

The commission also said that Iraqi armed forces --

excuse me for interrupting myself here, but I will say that we'll have

an eight-minute...

Now, in your testimony -- and your charts indicate

that there are approximately 95 of the Iraqi battalions -- army,

police and special operation...

And I believe, from our own statistics given to us

by the Department of Defense under Section 9010, that 89 of those

battalions are in the...

I think they are. That includes special ops.

Now, after talking with soldiers during a recent

visit to Iraq, it was my impression that many of the Iraqi units that

have the capability...

Can you tell us about how many of the 89 capable

units, Iraqi units that are capable of taking the lead with the

support of the coalition,...

It's a very important point, obviously, for those of

us who believe that we have got to begin to reduce our forces and to

turn over responsibility...

Did you agree with the reduction in British troops?

General, there's a lengthy article in last Sunday's

New York Times that assessed the surge. I don't know if you've had a

chance to read...

The article was the result of work of 20 reporters

who repeatedly visited 20 neighborhoods in Baghdad. They found that

residents have been...

All right. Now, Ambassador Crocker, in your opening

statement for the record, you provided a positive judgment on the

Iraqi political leaders,...

Thank you. My time is up.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

General Petraeus, Ambassador Crocker, again, thank you.

General Petraeus, you have stated that Iraq is...

Why is that?

Ambassador Crocker, in my statement I mentioned,

and I'm sure you heard, the Iranian president stated, "Soon we will

see a huge power vacuum...

Could it have happened without the surge?

Ambassador Crocker, there's now a lot of

conversation about a, quote, "soft partition" of Iraq, and that

Baghdad is already partitioned...

There's an argument that the Sunni -- the success

in Anbar province, because it's strictly Sunni, cannot be replicated

throughout Iraq.

So this can be and is being replicated throughout

Iraq?

Ambassador Crocker, what is your degree of

confidence that the Maliki government will begin to do the things that

we've been asking them...

All right.

AMB. CROCKER: -- the military surge can create the conditions

under which political reconciliation is possible.

All right....

Well, just to remind ourselves, the NIE, which I

think most of us have had the opportunity to -- read, said the

political reconciliation...

It shows the gradual reduction of personnel,

American personnel, over the period. These are the number of the

brigades that are going down....

So we shouldn't conclude -- we shouldn't draw any

conclusions from that chart over there on the phasing down in terms of

the American troops...

My time is up. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you, Senator Kennedy.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'd like to

join all of us in saying that I felt your appearances, which I've

followed very carefully -- I was...

Well, let me go on quickly.

You value intelligence as a military man.

We have a, I think, a very fine system of

intelligence now. Listen to what they said in January of 2007 with

the NIE, and I quote from...

How has this shaped your message to Congress and

your advice you're now giving the president of the United States?

General, I'd have to tell you my own personal view

is that I think the local activities of what they call bottom-up

reconciliation are just...

Does that make America safer?

Well, once the president makes his statement, I

hope you do consider it very carefully, as I know you will.

I thank the chair.

Not that I am aware of, Senator.

Senator, first of all, we are not arming the

tribes. We have not provided weapons to them. What we did initially

is basically give a thumbs-up...

Senator, first of all, we are not arming the

tribes. We have not provided weapons to them. What we did initially

is basically give a thumbs-up...

Senator, first of all, we are not arming the

tribes. We have not provided weapons to them. What we did initially

is basically give a thumbs-up...

Senator, I've got a brain trust of bright guys.

They wrote two drafts of it, and I took control of the electrons last

week -- or two weeks...

-- White House, the Pentagon or Congress.

Yes, sir.

There are certainly areas in which al Qaeda still

has local sway, if you will, but one of the big efforts during the

surge has in fact been...

Sir, certainly the conditions in local areas are

hugely important, and it's not just the conditions of the local

security forces. It's...

Thank you, sir.

Well, I would be uncomfortable with that. Again,

I think that we have to have our eyes wide open as we go forward with

this. We are making...

Well, first of all, to do counterterrorism, as I

mentioned very briefly in the statement, requires conventional as well

as all types of...

I know that some of my colleagues and others

have called for a diplomatic surge with Iran, to engage in

negotiations with them. In your...

I do, Senator, again, keeping in mind that my

area of responsibility is limited to Iraq. So it does not include

going into Iran.

Sir, I think that really the Multinational Force

Iraq should just focus on Iraq and that any kinds of operations

outside the borders of...

Thank you, sir.

And I think you should be complimented. He said,

"The new military team has infused the effort with energy and

strategic clarity, and seized...

You mentioned intelligence. This is when the

local people give information of value to the American or Iraqi

soldiers?

I would thank you for those comments. And I

guess the point of that answer is that you didn't just take 30,000

more troops and patrol more...

Well, I think that's important. There's no one

area of that country that's exactly like another area.

Each one has to be treated differently. Does it

not?

And you had that complexity in mind as you

developed this strategy. I think it does give us cause for belief

that we can make progress....

And General Petraeus, in your opinion, is a

circumstance in which -- in your opinion, is this effort in Iraq such

that we cannot be successful,...

And I would just say, Mr. Chairman, when I asked

General Jimmy Jones last week, did a single member of his 20-member

commission believe...

I have certainly never recommended extension

beyond 15 months. I fact, General Odierno and I put out a letter that

said that, I mean, unless...

It -- depending -- except depending on what can

be taken out of the Reserves. Again, I don't know what is available

in the National Guard...

Again, certainly the active brigade combat teams

were going to come out of there.

Again, I'm not aware of what is available in terms of...

I think that's the case, but again, I don't know

because I have not asked.

Actually, in the last month it has -- the level

of violence has come down fairly significantly in part because of the

-- as I mentioned,...

There is a very real concern about Iranian

activity in the southern provinces and in Basra in particular,

certainly.

They do not.

And really, Operation Sinbad was very different from our surge in the

sense that it was conducted to reach some relatively...

Well, it's largely because that's a Shi'a area,

and there has not been the kind of sectarian violence. There's just

basically one sect....

There are a number of areas in which we are

actually doing fine in mixed areas or in which it's better, more

accurate, to say that Iraqi...

Well, what I can see so far with any clarity in

terms of time, as I said, is to the mid-July figure of 15-brigade

combat teams. We have...

Thank you.

I'm now going to call on Senator Collins. We are in the middle

of a roll call. There apparently are -- how many minutes left?...

I'll go down and protect you. I'll protect you.

Well, I would -- if -- Senator, if we arrived at

that point a year from now, that is something I would have to think

very, very, very hard...

(Sounds gavel.) The committee will come back to

order.

And Senator Akaka is next. Senator Akaka.

I've been very concerned about placing the responsibility of the

new Iraqi government back in the hands of the Iraqi people. In his

speech...

Senator, let me talk, if I could, about the

security related benchmarks. And frankly, the Iraqis have done better

there. They did provide...

And Anthony Cordesman, an Iraq expert at the Center for

Strategic and International Studies here in Washington, has said that,

and I quote,...

Thank you for your response.

Thank you, Senator Akaka.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

And let me echo the thanks of everybody else here to you

gentlemen, number one for providing the kind...

First of all, Senator, we have conducted a number

of operations against individuals connected with the EFP shipment

process. In fact, we...

Sir, there's actually a very large base already

at Kut. It's a base that had been used by the Multinational Division

Center South. And...

Thank you, sir.

General, if I may, earlier in a conversation

that you had with Senator Reid, the question was raised, can you

sustain 130,000 troops --...

Okay. If we had --

Well, as the field commander, do you think

that if you have a 15-month requirement for soldiers, that there

should be 15 months off?

Well, certainly I would assume that you would

have an opinion on that, because it would affect morale, rest and --

yes. Right.

Okay. All right, I understand. So let's

assume that the Congress enacts a requirement that if you're going to

have 15 months in-country,...

You don't --

Well, we will certainly ask that, and there's

no mystery that the Reserves and the National Guard --

-- have had difficulty with regard to

enlistments.

Please.

Well, correct me if I'm wrong. I clearly got

the impression this morning that you think what we will have is

130,000 of our U.S. troops...

Can you venture a guess or a wish --

-- by the end of the year?

Not this year, the end of -- after the summer.

And of course, a lot of that would depend on

whether or not there's political reconciliation.

Do you see any indication thus far of

political reconciliation?

Looks like my time's up.

That is probably the case, yes, sir.

Killed in action is probably in the neighborhood

of 60 to 90 probably on average, 80 to 90 average.

Killed in action.

That does not include the 19 soldiers for example

tragically killed last month in the helicopter.

Yes, sir.

Well, the national interests that we have in Iraq

are substantial. An Iraq that is stable and secure, that is not an al

Qaeda sanctuary,...

Yes, sir, sorry.

Sir, I wouldn't be here and I wouldn't have made

the recommendations that I have made if I did not believe that.

Sir, I believe that's the case, and I have

discussed the re-enlistment rates there. And they know the sacrifice

that may be required of...

Sir, I -- as a general characterization, let me

just say that it's solid, because -- and you've heard this before -- I

believe that morale...

I do, sir, and I have a kid, who, as you heard --

-- pinned jump wings on, and may well. Yes, sir.

Sir, I do, and --

In Iraq.

That's correct, sir.

That's right.

Well, again, I think if -- it is the consequences

of -- again, of a failed state, of failing to achieve our objectives

and really to support...

Well, I think it -- again, as I mentioned

earlier, it has been regarded by al Qaeda senior leadership, AQSL, as

the central front. They...

Thank you, Senator Graham.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

And let me add my appreciation publicly to you both for your

service.

Before the surge in Baghdad, do we...

Right.

Well, in addition, has it resulted in a loss of

Sunni residents in Baghdad, as well?

Well, do we know what the percentage of loss of

Sunnis is in the Baghdad area?

Ten percent? Twenty percent?

And out of the southern Shi'a region, as well,

it's my understanding, there's been an exodus of Christians from the

south. Are we aware...

I've heard that there may have been displaced

as many as 800,000 Christians in the Shi'a regions in southern Iraq.

Ambassador Crocker, do...

I think they really had a reference to both, so

if we would check, that would be very helpful.

And you mentioned that when it comes to the...

Well, I'm being lighthearted about it, but --

-- but it does represent a significant level of

violence in the south, as well.

Ambassador Crocker, you said when looking at

the government of Iraq in terms of trying to meet the underlying goals

of the benchmarks, that...

Well, Senator, as I mentioned, the title of the

recommendations, if you will, "Security While Transitioning," captures

the idea that we...

Sir, the Central Command Headquarters, my boss,

Admiral Fallon, and with very much with our support from the MNF-I --

because it's, frankly,...

Thank you.

Right.

AMB. CROCKER: -- the meeting that took place on Sunday, the

ministerial that will occur in Istanbul.

We have pressed these...

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My time's expired.

Ambassador, there was a question behind my

observation --

AMB. CROCKER: Sorry.

-- and you mentioned the process, bottom-up, top-

down....

Well, let me ask you about those interests.

I judged by your response to Senator Graham that

you've given that a little additional thought.

(Chuckles.) That happens to all of us, including

those of us on this side of the table as well.

Well, let me ask you about those interests,...

Gentlemen, thank you again. My time has expired. I

just would conclude by saying we all hope that -- we all want to be

successful in Iraq....

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Well, Senator, first of all, there has already

been a humanitarian crisis in Iraq, as you know. The estimates run as

high as 2 million...

Sir, it's obviously very -- it's very difficult

to predict. My previous experience, for example, in Lebanon in the

early '80s -- I was...

It could be that, sir, because it could be a

situation that would be so dramatic that it would bring in neighboring

states. It would --...

Senator Cornyn, thank you.

I want to thank both of you, General Petraeus,

Ambassador Crocker, for your long and distinguished service to our

nation. Nobody believes...

And Ambassador, it's not only the Iraqi government

that, in my view, has failed to pursue a coherent strategy; I think

our own has as well....

As I mentioned in the testimony, sir, there is an

unevenness to it. The Iraqi forces range from extremely good, a high-

end Iraqi special...

That's right.

It is happening. But frankly, some of this took

a step backward, in some cases a substantial step backward, during the

height of the sectarian...

Well, first of all, Senator, let me just --

Sure. Let me just be clear that -- I mean, they

have already taken over, again, in --

-- in these provinces that have transitioned to

provincial Iraqi control. There are no coalition forces in Maysan

province, Muthanna, Karbala,...

Again, it -- you know, it depends how far along

you are. I mean, I think we obviously have to have some degree of

confidence that it wouldn't...

Thank you.

PRYOR (D-AR): Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I'd like to start, if I could, with a question for both of you,

and that is after two days on Capitol...

They're a mix, Senator. And now they often

include something called HME, which is homemade explosives, which is a

mix of fertilizer and...

Again, there are certain ones that are signature

weapons without question -- the EFPs, the rockets, mortars. The rest

is -- it's just hard...

It is. And candidly, it is proving very

difficult because the requirements to be green in terms -- they can

get the strength up. That...

No, I -- it's a tough standard to meet,

especially when you're in combat and losing soldiers, equipment and

leaders --

-- and don't have a great logistical support

structure.

And candidly, this is something that Senator Levin and Senator

Warner are...

Well, we are trying to get there. You can see --

I mean, they took steps backward because, again, of the hard fighting

that took place...

Certainly. Yes, sir.

In fact, those are the lines of operation, if you

will, the LIOs, in our joint campaign plan. There is an MNF-I/embassy

joint campaign...

Thank you, Senator Pryor.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Gentlemen, thank you very much. I appreciate you hosting me in

Baghdad a few days ago. I got an advance, I think,...

Kind of the conduit to Baghdad --

And slide number 10, in my view, gives a very

graphic portrayal of the success that you've had against al Qaeda-

Iraq, and we can add to...

On your -- thank you, sir.

On your chart 13, as you talk about the stepping, you also are

talking about mission shift. Do you have any...

Ambassador Crocker, I had -- I just want to

comment that I think a political communique is an important

consideration. I may be foretelling...

Thank you, sir.

Senator, I, again, am very concerned about the

strain on and sacrifice of our soldiers. Obviously, what a commander

in the field wants...

Thank you, Senator Webb.

Senator Corker?

Well, Senator, it's a great question, because

what we want to do is to focus on the ports of entry and to improve

the equipment at those...

It is indeed, yes, sir. And in fact, there's a

whole -- you know, if it's important to the military, there's a set of

slides, and they...

She is to come, and then we're going to conclude

the hearing.

Yeah, I definitely do, Senator. And I think the

interesting reflection of that was when the Iraqi soccer team won the

Asian Cup championship....

I know my time is up. I want to say to both of

you, I mean, I have a deep respect for the service you provide, and I

want to thank you...

Gentlemen, you've had an extraordinary performance

not only in the content of your testimony, but your endurance

throughout this day. Senator...

And Mr. Ambassador?

AMB. CROCKER: Yes, I do.

One provision in there, page 129, "Circumstances of

the moment may continue to present...

Lastly, General, there's been a good deal of

comment in the press -- I don't -- I can't ascribe to the accuracy --

that various segments...

Right. And that will be brought to the president

as he prepares to state --

And you had a session when he visited your --

Fine. Did this trip back provide any opportunity

for further work in that area?

Thank you. Thank you very much -- (inaudible).

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Senator, I mentioned earlier -- I don't know if

you were here, but at one time, in an earlier assignment, I did

actually withhold support...

Well, first of all, Senator, a very important

step is the support for the continuation of the special inspector

general, the SIGIR, in Iraq,...

You have one more question -- thank you, Senator

McCaskill -- and this goes to you, General Petraeus. I want to

clarify something.

You've...

But it is your recommendation and intention that

those reductions would keep on going after the 7/08 level of 15 combat

brigade teams is...

Well, I want to -- it's intended not just that you

will in some future year but that you intend to continue those

reductions at that point,...

Recommendation.

Your testimony, Ambassador Crocker, will be made part of the

record. I did not say that.

Thank you for your presentations,...