| 00:00:305 min. |
Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York
Good morning. I would like to thank Chairman Schumer, who could not be here today, for allowing us to hold this hearing on why work family... |
| 00:05:384 min. |
Saxton, H. "James" James - U.S. Representative, [R] New Jersey
Thank you very much, Madam Chairlady, and thank you for holding this hearing today. The topic of labor market policies in other countries... |
| 00:09:3848 sec. |
Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York
Great. We have a very fine panel today, and I'd like to introduce our witnesses, but I would like to note with irony, that the Committee... |
| 00:10:264 min. |
Brown, Kay - Director
STATEMENT OF KAY E. BROWN, ACTING DIRECTOR, EDUCATION, WORKFORCE, AND INCOME SECURITY ISSUES, U.S. GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE,... |
| 00:15:1444 sec. |
Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York
Thank you. Please note that Senators Kennedy and Schumer have submitted statements and they will be part of the record.* * The information... |
| 00:15:586 min. |
Gornick, Janet C. - Professor
Thank you very much. Good morning, Vice Chair Maloney and Members of the Committee. I really appreciate the opportunity to testify at this... |
| 00:22:2549 sec. |
Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York
Thank you very much. Ellen Bravo, I want to thank her for coming. She's recovering from an automobile accident and so is in a cast. I... |
| 00:23:147 min. |
Bravo, Ellen - Coordinator
Thank you so much, Vice Chair Maloney and Members of the Committee. It's a pleasure to be here. So, I have just been on tour for this book,... |
| 00:30:301 min. |
Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York
Thank you, very much. Laura Kellison Wallace is the manager of Work Life and EAP Programs at SAS Institute. Before SAS, she was the Work... |
| 00:31:316 min. |
Wallace, Laura K. - Director
Thank you so much. Good morning, Vice Chair Maloney, Ranking Member Saxton, and Members of the Committee: My name is Laura Kellison... |
| 00:38:0139 sec. |
Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York
Thank you. Dr. Tim Kane is the director of the Center for International Trade and Economics at the Heritage Foundation. He oversees... |
| 00:38:407 min. |
Kane, Tim - Director
Thank you so much, Chairlady Maloney, Congressman Saxton, and other Members of the Committee: It is a real honor to be back here. It is... |
| 00:46:131 min. |
Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York
Thank you for your testimony. We've now heard all the opening statements, and we will now proceed with questions. We will have a 5-minute... |
| 00:47:392 min. |
Wallace, Laura K. - Director
Well, I can speak, even personally, for myself. About 5 years ago, my dear darling father had a heart attack, and it was unexpected. I live... |
| 00:49:5312 sec. |
Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York
But your statement that you save $75 million annually, maybe you could submit it in writing, of how in the world did you save $75 million... |
| 00:50:051 min. |
Bravo, Ellen - Coordinator
Well, I wanted to add that I think we have lots of information about turnover costs. Here's another cost that we should talk about,... |
| 00:51:562 sec. |
Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York
Mr. Saxton. |
| 00:51:581 min. |
Saxton, H. "James" James - U.S. Representative, [R] New Jersey
Thank you very much. Ms. Brown, I pointed out in my opening statement that your study was not intended to be a comparison of the these policies'... |
| 00:53:0452 sec. |
Brown, Kay - Director
That's correct. Our report provides what could be considered an inventory of the different types of practices and policies that these eight... |
| 00:53:562 min. |
Saxton, H. "James" James - U.S. Representative, [R] New Jersey
Thank you for that. I just wanted to make sure that we clarified that at the outset. I have to tell you about an experience just yesterday.... |
| 00:55:571 min. |
Kane, Tim - Director
Yes, sir, there are a couple of reasons that unemployment rates don't reflect the situation. One is that we try to make them comparable... |
| 00:57:312 min. |
Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York
Thank you. I want to thank my colleague for his comments when he mentioned that this is very much a family issue, a male/female issue, and... |
| 01:00:22 |
Kane, Tim - Director
Yes, ma'am. |
| 01:00:2210 sec. |
Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York
In fact, they're beating us in a lot of areas. So, you know, your comments on that and then yours, Dr. Gornick. |
| 01:00:3247 sec. |
Kane, Tim - Director
Yes, ma'am, I think that's a wonderful question in light of where other countries are competitive. It tends to be where they're freer. I... |
| 01:01:198 sec. |
Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York
I believe California paid for it with a social insurance program that was the responsibility of the employees. |
| 01:01:2753 sec. |
Kane, Tim - Director
Yes, ma'am. So, I think you could do it with higher taxes. The main problem that I have with that would be that higher taxes are also correlated... |
| 01:02:203 sec. |
Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York
Dr. Gornick. |
| 01:02:232 min. |
Gornick, Janet C. - Professor
Thank you very much, Representative Maloney. There's a great deal to say, and Dr. Kane, with due respect, I really do disagree with quite... |
| 01:05:1627 sec. |
Bravo, Ellen - Coordinator
Plus, let's be real about unemployment. My husband teaches in the center city of Milwaukee. Go tell his kids that the unemployment rate... |
| 01:05:437 sec. |
Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York
Thank you. My time has expired. |
| 01:05:502 min. |
Saxton, H. "James" James - U.S. Representative, [R] New Jersey
I think you're all correct. This is a fairly complicated subject when you try to determine what the potential impact on the economy,... |
| 01:07:532 min. |
Kane, Tim - Director
Yes sir, thank you. I wish I had brought a copy of the Index with me so I could refer to it, because we go through all of this. Let... |
| 01:10:431 min. |
Saxton, H. "James" James - U.S. Representative, [R] New Jersey
Thank you. Madam Chairlady, I'm afraid I'm going to have to leave here to go to another commitment. I want to thank each of the witnesses... |
| 01:11:466 sec. |
Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York
I thank the gentleman, and I will continue questioning. I hope you won't object to my continuing to ask questions. |
| 01:11:52 |
Saxton, H. "James" James - U.S. Representative, [R] New Jersey
You're the Chairlady. |
| 01:11:521 min. |
Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York
OK. And I look forward to joining you on your idea of the future GAO report, so thank you. I'd like to ask Dr. Gornick, the first chart... |
| 01:13:102 min. |
Gornick, Janet C. - Professor
I think, to get back to the issue of productivity, that it is very complicated. I sort of apologize for continually saying that. I think... |
| 01:15:433 sec. |
Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York
Ms. Bravo. Others who would like to comment. |
| 01:15:4659 sec. |
Bravo, Ellen - Coordinator
Sure. I mean, I agree with what Janet said, and I want to just add a couple of things. We should remember that low-wage workers are not... |
| 01:16:4527 sec. |
Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York
Why is the issue of work/family balance not a ``woman's issue,'' but a ``parents' issue''? And how can we better incorporate men into taking... |
| 01:17:122 min. |
Kane, Tim - Director
I think there is definitely a distribution of parenting in the United States, and I definitely try to be one that is there as a soccer coach... |
| 01:19:217 sec. |
Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York
Other comments on encouraging fathers to be more of the work/family balance? Any comments by anyone? |
| 01:19:281 min. |
Wallace, Laura K. - Director
I would like to just add, at SAS, maybe because we have been doing this for such a long time; our culture is such that it tacitly supports... |
| 01:21:1933 sec. |
Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York
I would like to ask Kay Brown: the U.K. Department of Trade said that the right to request law was a cost-effective means to help women... |
| 01:21:522 sec. |
Brown, Kay - Director
Can I say one thing about fathers first? |
| 01:21:542 sec. |
Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York
Sure. Absolutely. |
| 01:21:561 min. |
Brown, Kay - Director
I just wanted to mention that in the countries that we studied, in addition to providing maternity leave benefits, that is, paid maternity... |
| 01:22:596 sec. |
Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York
And as you know, the Family and Medical Leave Act applies to both men and women. |
| 01:23:0560 sec. |
Bravo, Ellen - Coordinator
Could I just add something to that before you come back on the right to request flexibility? In 1995 I was able to go to the Fourth World... |
| 01:24:051 min. |
Gornick, Janet C. - Professor
I would just like to add to that as well, just to clarify Ellen's comment. Of course the leave is not required of the fathers, it's just... |
| 01:25:294 sec. |
Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York
And now, Ms. Brown, on the right-to- request law. |
| 01:25:331 min. |
Brown, Kay - Director
Yes. In the United Kingdom, employees were given the ability to request changes in either the hour or the location of their work. And the... |
| 01:26:407 sec. |
Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York
Were there any reports of discrimination against employees for making the request? |
| 01:26:473 sec. |
Brown, Kay - Director
I am not aware of any. |
| 01:26:5037 sec. |
Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York
That is good to hear. I would like to ask Ellen Bravo, Dr. Kane suggests that mandating paid leave would result in employers discriminating against... |
| 01:27:272 min. |
Bravo, Ellen - Coordinator
Sure. I will start with that, actually. One of the most important and cost-free ways of providing flexibility is flexible scheduling--letting... |
| 01:29:412 sec. |
Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York
Thank you. |
| 01:29:4355 sec. |
Bravo, Ellen - Coordinator
Let me just say, on the discrimination against women, first of all, as we all know, there are men who are fathers, who are sons, who are... |
| 01:30:381 min. |
Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York
Dr. Kane, if we were to leave the market and businesses to handle this issue, how would we address the problem of low-wage workers rarely... |
| 01:31:531 min. |
Kane, Tim - Director
Yes, ma'am. I think about this all the time, actually. Travelling abroad is really--I think everyone who has travelled abroad knows when... |
| 01:33:001 min. |
Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York
But having a fair work/family balance would help in all of these areas and help parents be there when their children are sick and help parents... |
| 01:34:4428 sec. |
Kane, Tim - Director
I am very sympathetic to what you are saying, ma'am, but I just think that mandating the fix and forcing companies to adopt certain policies... |
| 01:35:123 sec. |
Gornick, Janet C. - Professor
Could I speak to this just for a moment? |
| 01:35:1530 sec. |
Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York
Could I just have Ms. Wallace answer since you come from a company that is able to offer such generous family, work/family policies while... |
| 01:35:451 min. |
Wallace, Laura K. - Director
Well, it is hard not to answer as a former Head Start teacher first, but I will answer as a SAS H.R. person. First of all, we offer... |
| 01:37:1057 sec. |
Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York
Well, Dr. Kane raised the point of cost-effectiveness. That has got to go to the cost- effectiveness of a company. We have to look at the... |
| 01:38:073 sec. |
Wallace, Laura K. - Director
Well, let me see if I can untease---- |
| 01:38:105 sec. |
Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York
Then we will go to you, Dr. Gornick. I know you want to get into this discussion, and I know you have a lot to say. |
| 01:38:151 min. |
Wallace, Laura K. - Director
If I were to start some place, before even policies go into place, I think I would start programmatically. I would start to really leverage... |
| 01:39:455 sec. |
Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York
I know, Dr. Gornick, you had some comments to make. |
| 01:39:501 min. |
Gornick, Janet C. - Professor
I am glad that Dr. Kane raised the issue of poverty because I think it is something in the backdrop that we need to think about. So I do... |
| 01:41:122 sec. |
Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York
And growing, the gap. |
| 01:41:141 min. |
Gornick, Janet C. - Professor
And growing, absolutely. So, coming back to the question you asked about, the low- wage workers, much research in this country has shown... |
| 01:42:571 min. |
Bravo, Ellen - Coordinator
May I just add one thing about that? One of the problems for low-wage families is how many women lose their jobs because they have a sick... |
| 01:44:0819 sec. |
Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York
Well thank you very much. I would just like Ms. Brown to respond. Did you find that comprehensive work/family policies enhanced labor force participation... |
| 01:44:2753 sec. |
Brown, Kay - Director
Well, I can specifically address the issue of paid leave. Yes, we did find that in general overall paid leave does encourage and increase... |
| 01:45:201 min. |
Maloney, Carolyn - U.S. Representative, [D] New York
Well, I do want to respond to what Ms. Bravo and Dr. Gornick were talking about, investing in early childhood education. Just about 3 weeks... |