| 00:00:45 |
none, -
IT UNCONSTITUTIONAL BECAUSE IT DOES NOT CONTAIN AN EXCEPTION FOR THE HEALTH OF THE MOTHER. >> WE'LL HEAR ARGUMENT FIRST THIS MORNING IN CASE 05-380....
|
| 00:01:12 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
MEDICALLY NECESSARY, POSE HEALTH RISKS AND SHOULD BE BANNED. UNDER FAMILIAR PRINCIPALS, THOSE DETERMINATIONS SHOULD BE UPHEAD AS LONG
|
| 00:01:21 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AS THEY REPRESENT REASONABLE NINCHESES BASED ON SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE IN THE CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. THAT IS SATISFIED HERE. THE EVIDENCE BEFORE CONGRESS...
|
| 00:02:20 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WOULDN'T THE SAME REASONING APPLY, COULDN'T CONGRESS MAKE SIMILAR FINDINGS WITH RESPECT TO WHAT IS THE MOST COMMON METHOD FOR SECOND TRY MESSER ABORTIONS?...
|
| 00:02:51 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TO DEAL WITH THE PRIMARY ABORTION METHOD IN THE SECOND THIGH DOMESTICER. CONGRESS DIDN'T GO AFTER THE DOG, IT WENT AFTER THE TAIL, THIS PROCEDURE,...
|
| 00:03:34 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
POINTS. TAKING IT AT THE BROADER LEVEL. THERE IS ONE VERY IMPORTANT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THESE TWO PROCEDURES THAT LED CONGRESS TO BAN ONE AND ALLOW...
|
| 00:03:52 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
FETUS IS MORE THAN HALFWAY OUT OF THE MOTHER. AS TO THE SUGGEST, MOST PARTICULARLY BY RESPONDENTS IN THE SECOND CASE THERE IS NO MEANINGFUL DIFFERENCE...
|
| 00:06:01 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IS AN EXPERT. I THINK HIS DEPOSITION WAS TAKEN OR HIS TESTIMONY WAS TAKEN PRINCIPALLY IN THE CALIFORNIA CASE, BUT IT WAS INTRODUCED IN ALL THREE...
|
| 00:06:17 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WAS IN THE RECORD I THINK IN ALL THREE CASES. >> SO MY GOING THROUGH THIS RECORD, I COMPARE IT WITH STENBERG, WHAT'S IN CONGRESS, WE HAVE TWO CASES...
|
| 00:06:43 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
NUMBERS, I GUESS IF YOU LOOK BY LINES OF TESTIMONY OR BY DIFFERENT DOCTORS INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH IT SEEMS TO ME THERE ARE MORE DOCTORS IN THESE TWO CASES...
|
| 00:07:46 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BECAUSE IT LACKED AN EXCEPTION FOR THE HEALTH OF THE MOTHER. SOMETHING THAT
|
| 00:07:52 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CAME FROM PRECEDING CASES. SO IF GIVING DEFERENCE TO NEBRASKA WE REACH THAT CONCLUSION THERE, AND IF THE DEFERENCE THAT IS OWED IS THE SAME, AND...
|
| 00:08:33 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OPINION, WHAT THIS COURT DID IS IT FRONTED NEAB'S ARGUMENT THAT THE D&X PROCEDURE WAS NOT IN FACT SAFER. AND WELL THAT ARGUMENT FACED QUITE A BURDEN...
|
| 00:09:41 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CURRICULUM, I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT CONGRESS HAD IN MIND BUT CLEARLY AS A MATTER TO SEARCH RESIDENTS -- >> DO YOU THINK THAT FINDING IS CORRECT?...
|
| 00:09:53 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THIS. >> SUPPOSING THERE WAS A LOT OF EVIDENCE INTRODUCED IN THE DISTRICT COURT THAT THERE WERE SCHOOLS LIKE YALE AND NEW YORK UNIVERSITY THAT DID...
|
| 00:10:07 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
EVIDENCE IN THE
|
| 00:10:08 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DISTRICT COURT WHEN OVERWHELMINGLY TO THE CONTRARY, I THINK THAT THE DISTRICT COURT COULD
|
| 00:10:14 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
EFFECTIVELY UNDERMINE THAT ONE FINDING. I DON'T THINK IN THIS CASE ANYTHING -- >> ON OTHER FINDINGS IS THERE A DIFFERENT STANDARD OF REVIEW OF WHAT...
|
| 00:10:27 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WOULD ANSWER YOU THIS WAY. YOU WANT TO ISOLATE THOSE SITUATIONS WHERE THE DISTRICT COURT IS ADDRESSING SOMETHING, AN ISSUE THAT WASN'T BEFORE CONGRESS...
|
| 00:10:40 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE DISTRICT COURT IS ENTITLED TO THE NORMAL KIND OF DEFERENCE ON RUE. BUT I THINK IF YOU HAVE SITUATIONS WHICH YOU HAVE IN
|
| 00:10:46 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THIS CASE WHERE THE DISTRICT COURT HEARD SOME OF THE SAME WITNESSES WHO TESTIFIED BEFORE CONGRESS AND BEFORE THE DISTRICT COURT AND THE DISTRICT COURT...
|
| 00:11:25 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TO VIEABLE FETUSES JUST INCHES OF BECOMING PERSONS. YOU KIND FIND THE WORD FETUS, THE FINDINGS AS OPPOSED TO THE TEXT OF THE STATUTE. >> I NEED TO CLAIRE...
|
| 00:11:58 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THAT REMARKABLE IN A STATUTE THAT BANS CERTAIN PROCEDURES WITHOUT REGARD WHETHER THE PROCEDURE IS APPLIED TO A VIABLE OR NONVIABLE FETUS.
|
| 00:12:08 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WHEN CONGRESS DOES MAKE SPECIFIC FINDINGS THAT THE PROCEDURE THAT IT'S BANNING WOULD HAVE THE EFFECT OF PREVENTING
|
| 00:12:15 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
A LETHAL ACT ON A FETUS -- >> MY I INTERPRET INTERRUPT. IT IS REQUIRING THAT THE LETHAL ACT BE PERFORMED PRIOR TO ANY PART OF THE DELIVERY. THERE IS...
|
| 00:12:41 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WHEN THE CHILD IS OUTSIDE THE WOUND. >> THE FETUS IS MORE THAN HALFWAY OUT? AND SOME OF THESE FETUSES AS I UNDERSTAND IN THE PROCEDURE ARE ONLY FOUR...
|
| 00:12:56 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BABIES. >> JUSTICE STEVENS, AGAIN, YOU'RE RIGHT >> WHEN IT'S HALFWAY OUT I GUESS YOU COULD CALL IT EITHER A CHILD OR A FETUS. IT'S SORT OF HALF AND...
|
| 00:13:05 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
YOU COULD USE EITHER TERMINOLOGY. NOTHING TURNS ON THE TERMINOLOGY. THE TERMINOLOGY THAT CONS CHOSE TO USE IS A LIVING FETUS. THE POINT IS WHEN
|
| 00:13:17 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
FETAL DENICE IS INDUCED
|
| 00:13:20 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
INYUTE ROW WHATEVER YOU THINK ABOUT THAT PROCEDURE, IT'S CLASSICALLY AN ABORTION. BUT WHEN FETAL DEMISE IS INDUCED
|
| 00:13:28 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WHEN THE LIVING FETUS IS OVER HALFWAY OUTSIDE THE WOMB -- >> SUFFER A DEMISE IN SECONDS ANYWAY. >> IT MAY BE SECONDS, IT MAY BE HOURS, IT DEPENDS...
|
| 00:13:55 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
HE MADE THE JUDGMENT THAT IT
|
| 00:13:57 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IS FAR PREFERABLE TO ENSURE THE FETAL DEMISE TAKES
|
| 00:14:01 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
PLACE BEFORE ANY DELIVERY BEGINS, THAT'S THE BIG ISSUE? >> I'M NOT SURE WHETHER IT'S WHETHER -- THAT'S
|
| 00:14:07 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
A FAIR SUMMARY. YOU KNOW THE LINE ISN'T THAT FETAL DEMISE HAS TO BE DONE BEFORE ANY DELIVERY BEGINS. BUT THE BASIC
|
| 00:14:16 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
POINT OF THIS STATUTE AUTO IS TO DRAW A LINE BETWEEN ONE IN UTERO AND ONE WHEN THE
|
| 00:14:26 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CHILD IS MORE THAN HALFWAY OUTSIDE THE WOMAN'S WOUND? >> WOULD IT BE LAWFUL OR INFANTICIDE TO DELIVER IT ENTIRELY AND LET IT EXPIRE WITHOUT ANY ATTEMPT...
|
| 00:14:52 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TO SURVIVE, I DON'T THINK IT WOULD BE INFANTICIDE TO LET THE CHILD EXPIRE BUT I DO THINK BY CONTRAST IF SOMEBODY TRIED TO WITH THE FETUS
|
| 00:15:01 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
PERFECTLY ALIVE AND IN THE HOURS THAT IT MIGHT HAVE TO LIVE, IF SOMEBODY CAME IN AND RIPPED ITS HEAD OPEN WE'D CALL THAT MURDER. >> THAT'S NOT WHAT...
|
| 00:15:32 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AN ABORTION. SO ANYTHING ABOUT IT, INFANTICIDE, BABIES, ALL THAT IS JUST BESIDE THE POINT BECAUSE WHAT THIS BANS IS A METHOD OF ABORTION. IT DOESN'T...
|
| 00:16:13 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THAT I THINK IS THINK ABOUT A LAWFUL POST VIBLET ABORTION. THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH THE MOTHER'S HEALTH OR LIFE, SO IT'S A LAWFUL POST VIBLET ABORTION,...
|
| 00:17:17 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
INFANTICIDE AND ABORTION EVEN WITH RESPECT TO PREVIABILITY FETUSES. >> I SEE WHAT YOU'RE DRIVING AT IN TERMS OF THE PROCEDURE. WE'RE FOCUSING ON A UNIVERSE...
|
| 00:17:30 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IS NOT GOING TO SURVIVE NO MATTER WHAT, RIGHT? >> RIGHT. >> SO WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT ANYONE BEING BORN AND LIVING. THEY'RE NOT GOING TO. >> WITH...
|
| 00:17:45 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AREA OF FOCUS. NOW, CONGRESS HAS SAID THE DOCTOR, YOU CAN ACHIEVE THAT RESULT THROUGH METHOD
|
| 00:17:53 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
A BUT NOT THROUGH METHOD B
|
| 00:17:55 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AND YOU'RE SAYING CONGRESS HAD GOOD REASON FOR DOING THAT. I TAKE IT CONGRESS ALSO AGREES THAT IF METHOD
|
| 00:18:02 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
B WHICH THEY DON'T WANT WERE TO BE NECESSARY
|
| 00:18:06 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
FOR THE SAFETY OR HEALTH OF THE MOTHER, THE CONSTITUTION WOULD REQUIRE IT BEING DONE. I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING HERE ABOUT CONGRESS DISAGREEING WITH THAT....
|
| 00:18:38 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CONGRESS AND EVERYBODY ELSE THAT IT IS NECESSARY AND SAFER. AND I SEE OTHER DOCTORS TELLING CONGRESS
|
| 00:18:45 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
PRIMARILY BUT IN COURT TO THAT IT ISN'T NECESSARY, EVER, FOR SAFETY. AND SO IF MEDICAL OPINION IS DIVIDED AND I'M NOT ADVOCATING WHAT I'M ABOUT TO...
|
| 00:20:09 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DOCTOR CHASENS AND DR. FEDS, THEY WILL TELL YOU IN EVERY SINGLE CASE, THE D&X PROCEDURE IS BETTER AND SAFER AND THEY WANT TO DO IT. AND SO IT DOESN'T...
|
| 00:20:51 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SAFETY OF THE MOTHER. NOW WHERE THAT'S TRUE THE COURT HAS PREVIOUSLY SAID THAT THE CONSTITUTION PROTECTS THE RIGHT. AND I DON'T SEE ANYTHING IN WHAT...
|
| 00:21:30 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
COURT REJECTS THE FACIAL CHALLENGE TO THIS STATUTE, IT IS
|
| 00:21:33 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
STILL GOING TO BE OPEN FOR LITIGANTS IN THE FUTURE TO TRY TO IDENTIFY SPECIFIC CONDITIONS WHERE THIS PROCEDURE IS THE SAFER ALTERNATIVE. >> YOU CAN TELL...
|
| 00:21:51 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ITS FACE, THE PROCEDURE HAS TO TAKE PLACE WITHIN 24, 48, 72 HOURS, HOW WOULD AS APPLIED CHALLENGE TAKE PLACE? AND
|
| 00:22:02 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
I READ ALL OF THE DOCTORS' TESTIMONY, HUNDREDS OF PAGES AND AM FAMILIAR WITH THE AREA GENERALLY. BUT IT TAKES A WHILE TO GET UP TO SPEED. I DON'T KNOW...
|
| 00:22:43 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
USEFUL IN DEALING WITH PREECLAMP SEE I CAN'T OR PLACENTA PREVIA. >> WHY ISN'T THAT IN THE RECORD ALREADY IN THE DISTRICT COURT'S PROCEEDINGS IN THOSE...
|
| 00:23:12 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
MEDICALLY NECESSARY OR HAD MARGINAL
|
| 00:23:16 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SAFETY BENEFITS. IN THIS CASE THE NEBRASKA CASE, THE COURT IDENTIFIED TWO CONDITIONS, PREECLAMP SEE I CAN'T AND PLACENTA PREVIA. THERE ARE PROBLEMS WITH...
|
| 00:23:53 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DOCTORS AND THEY MIGHT COME IN AND TARGET THEIR CHALLENGE TO PARTICULAR CONDITIONS AND TRY TO SAY -- >>
|
| 00:24:00 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
GENERAL CLEMENT, CONDITIONS DON'T SHOW UP IN THE ABSTRACT. WOULDN'T IT OFTEN BE THE CASE THAT IT DEPENDS ON THE VULNERABILITY OF THE PICK PATIENT,...
|
| 00:24:23 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OF WHAT THE CONDITION IS AND THE VULNERABILITY OF THE PARTICULAR PATIENT. AND I DON'T SEE HOW THAT COULD BE TESTED IN ADVANCE. >> WELL, JUSTICE GINSBURG,...
|
| 00:24:53 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THIS STATUTE TO BE DIFFERENT THAN THE SCOPE OF THE STATUTE AT ISSUE IN STENBERG FOCUSING ON THE DID HE ELABORATE AND PARTICULAR LANGUAGE >> I CERTAINLY...
|
| 00:25:10 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
LANDMARK APPROACH THAT IS BASED IN THE TEXT OF THE STATUTE AND CLEARLY DISTINGUISHED BETWEEN THE D&E PROCEDURE ON THE ONE HAND AND THE D&X PROCEDURE...
|
| 00:25:23 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IS DENIED? I MEAN, THAT DOES NOT DEPEND ON THE ANATOMICAL APPROACH. THE ANATOMICAL APPROACH MAY WELL BE AN ANSWER AT THE FACIAL CHALLENGE STAGE TO PROBLEMS...
|
| 00:25:39 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BY THAT. AND THE DIFFICULTY THAT I HAVE WITH YOUR ARGUMENT THAT SOMEHOW THE HEALTH EXCEPTION ISSUE SHOULD BE LEFT TO AS AN APPLIED CHALLENGE IS...
|
| 00:27:31 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AUTHORITY AS TRIGGERING THIS REQUIREMENT FOR
|
| 00:27:35 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
A STATUTORY
|
| 00:27:37 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ELEMENT. THAT PROBLEM IS NOT FOCUSED SIMPLY BY SAYING CONGRESS MADE SOME FINDINGS AND THE DISTRICT COURT MADE OTHER FINDINGS AND
|
| 00:27:46 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CONGRESS SHOULD PREVAIL. THE FACT IS THE SUBSTANTIAL MEDICAL JUDGMENT FINDING, I WOULD SUPPOSE, IS SATISFIED BY THE RECORD IN THE DISTRICT COURTS IN...
|
| 00:28:44 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE DOCTORS. AND TURN SEEMS TO SUGGEST WHEN YOU HAVE CONFLICTING JUDGMENT, YOU DEFER TO CONGRESS AND IT HAS TO BE ONE OR THE OTHER. IT CAN'T GO BOTH...
|
| 00:29:56 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
COURT'S RULING IN STENBERG.
|
| 00:29:59 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
PARTICULARLY IN LIGHT OF THE CONGRESSIONAL FINDINGS THAT ARE FRANKLY, UNSUPPORTED BY EITHER THE CONGRESSIONAL RECORD OR THE ADDITIONAL EVIDENCE PRESENTED...
|
| 00:30:56 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THROUGH 21, 22 WEEKS, IN HOW MANY OF THOSE INSTANCES DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA, IN HOW MANY OF THOSE INSTANCES IS THERE A SERIOUS HEALTH RISK TO THE MOTHER...
|
| 00:31:31 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TO ENCOUNTER
|
| 00:31:33 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THOSE PATIENTS WITH MEDICAL CONDITIONS. THE
|
| 00:31:36 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
LIVER DISEASE, KIDNEY DISEASE, HEART, CARDIOVASCULAR DISEASE, ALL OF THESE ISSUES THAT AND UNDERLYING CONDITIONS THAT MAKE THE INTACT AND THE RISKS...
|
| 00:32:14 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IS EXTENSIVE EVIDENCE IN THIS CASE MUCH MORE EVIDENCE, FRANKLY, YOUR HORN, JUSTICE
|
| 00:32:21 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BREYER THAN THERE WAS IN THE STEM CASE. >> I HAVE ONE OTHER QUESTION THAT'S GENERALLY RELATED TO THE FIRST. >> OK. >> IF THERE IS SUBSTANTIAL EVIDENCE...
|
| 00:32:47 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ALTHOUGH THEY'RE AVAILABLE AS A MATTER OF SCIENCE, AS
|
| 00:32:50 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
A MATTER OF MEDICAL EXPERTISE,
|
| 00:32:53 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THEY'RE NOT AVAILABLE BECAUSE HOSPITALS DON'T ALLOW THE PATIENTS TO BE ADMITTED? I WAS GOING TO ASK THAT SAME QUESTION TO THE GOVERNMENT BECAUSE...
|
| 00:33:35 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ABORTION BECAUSE OF A CERTAIN MEDICAL CONDITION.
|
| 00:33:38 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THEN THERE ARE WOMEN WHO ARE OBTAINING
|
| 00:33:41 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AN ABORTION BECAUSE THEY HAVE CHOSEN THAT THAT'S THE BEST COURSE FOR THEM WHO ALSO HAVE UNDERLYING MEDICAL CONDITIONS. SO IF YOU'RE A WOMAN WHO...
|
| 00:34:37 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
HONOR. THE OPINION IS AGAINST ABORTION WHATSOEVER AND A REFUSAL TO USE ONE'S FACILITIES TO PROVIDE ANY ABORTIONS OF ANY KIND, NOT ABOUT ANY PARTICULAR...
|
| 00:34:57 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THAT WAS MADE IN FOUR FORUMS. FIRST WAS THE FIRST STENBERG CASE, SECOND WAS CONGRESS, THIRD WAS ONE OF THE CASE HERE AND THE FOURTH WAS THE OTHER...
|
| 00:35:12 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
FOR SUCH A CASE, THAT IS FOR INTACT D&E THAT THERE IS A RISK ATTACHED IF YOU DON'T USE IT IN SOME INSTANCES. THE FEWEST NUMBER OF STATEMENTS FOR THAT...
|
| 00:35:46 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
FIRST STENBERG. IF WE LOOK TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN, THE DOCTORS WHO SAY NO,
|
| 00:35:50 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IT ISN'T SAFE, THERE I'D HAVE TO SAY THERE ARE PROBABLY MANY MORE IN CONGRESS THAN THERE
|
| 00:35:56 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ARE THAT SAY IT
|
| 00:35:59 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ISN'T SAFE THERE ARE MORE IN CONGRESS, AND THERE ARE SOME IN THESE CASES TOO AND HARDLY ANY IN STENBERG, NOT TOO MANY. IT WAS AGAINST YOU, IN OTHER WORDS....
|
| 00:36:30 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IN CONGRESS SUPPORTING YOU AS THERE WAS IN THE FIRST STENBERG CASE. BUT CONGRESS MADE THIS FINDING. SO WHAT AM I TO DO WITH THE FINDING? >>
|
| 00:36:42 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE IMPORTANT POINT, YOUR HONOR, IF THE COURT APPLIED THE HIGHEST LEVEL OF DEFERENCE UNDER TURNER, THE FINDINGS WOULD BE JEBLINGTED AND MUST BE BECAUSE...
|
| 00:37:03 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IT WAS AS WAS THE BRIEF THAT WAS FILED, THE AME CUSS BRIEF THAT WAS FILED WAS BEFORE CONGRESS AND ALSO TESTIMONY FROM NUMEROUS PHYSICIANS IN THE FORM
|
| 00:37:19 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OF LETTER. I WAS SAYING THERE WERE EIGHT WITNESSES WHO TESTIFIED LIVE. >> MY QUESTION YOU MIGHT HAVE
|
| 00:37:24 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BEEN GOING AFTER, I WAS SAYING THAT I AGREED WITH YOU IN THAT THERE IS MORE EVIDENCE SUPPORTING YOUR SIDE IN THESE CASES THAN THERE WAS BEFORE CONGRESS...
|
| 00:37:43 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
FINDING IN THE NEBRASKA LEGISLATURE AND SO DOES THAT FACT THE FINDING BEING IN CONGRESS AND NOT IN THE NEBRASKA LEGISLATURE, WHAT KIND OF LEGAL...
|
| 00:38:15 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE FINDINGS IN LIGHT OF THE EVIDENCE IN CONGRESS AND AGAIN IN LIGHT OF THE EVIDENCE IN THE DISTRICT COURT -- >> MAY I ASK YOU THIS QUESTION ABOUT WHAT...
|
| 00:38:41 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
PROCEDURE RATHER THAN THE OTHER, WOULD THAT BE SUFFICIENT TO SUPPORT THE -- I CAN SEE THE ARGUMENT THAT THE INTACT DELIVERY MAY HAVE LESS RISKS OF AND...
|
| 00:39:18 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
MINOR COMPLICATIONS. >> I GUESS IT GETS BACK TO THE POINT EARLIER. DO YOU AGREE WITH THE DISCUSSION EARLIER THAT THIS ACT IS NOT GOING TO PREVENT ABORTIONS?...
|
| 00:39:40 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THAT APPLIES TO D&E ABORTIONS AND CONTRARY TO WHAT THE SOLICITOR GENERAL SAID ABOUT THE INTENT OF ABORTIONS, PROVIDEDERS LIKE DR. VIBHAKAR
|
| 00:39:52 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AND OTHERS, THEIR INTENT IS REMOVE THE FETUS AS INTACT AS POSSIBLE AND THE DISTRICT COURTS HAVE RECOGNIZED THAT AS AN INTENT THAT'S COVERED UNDER THE...
|
| 00:40:27 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TO OVERRIDE THE STATE'S ARTICULATED INTERESTS? >> I DON'T BELIEVE A MARGINAL BENEFIT IN SAFETY IS ENOUGH AND I DON'T BELIEVE THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE...
|
| 00:40:51 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SUCH AS UTERINE PERFORATION WHICH CAN LEAD TO HYSTERECTOMY. >> BUT YOU SAID EARLIER THAT WE DON'T HAVE ANY RECORD EVIDENCE OF HOW OFTEN THE COMPLICATIONS...
|
| 00:41:16 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THEY'VE USED BOTH PROCEDURES. IN FACT, MANY OF THEM HAVE TESTIFIED THAT THEY'VE PERFORATED UTERUSES IN NONINTACT D&ES AND THEY'VE NEVER PERFORATED A...
|
| 00:41:29 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BROUGHT OUT IN THE STUDY WITH A VERY SMALL NUMBERS BUT IT SHOWS ALL THE SERIOUS COMPLICATIONS ARE IN THE NONINTACT GROUP. >> IF WE GO BACK TO THE FIRST...
|
| 00:41:59 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THAT WOULD HAVE INSULATED THE PHYSICIAN WHO IS PERFORMING THE D&E? >> ABSOLUTELY, YOUR HONOR. THE BLUEPRINT THAT THAT THIS COURT LAID OUT IN JUSTICE ...
|
| 00:42:28 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THERE ANOTHER NARROWER CONSTRUCTION OF THE ACT TOO THAT IS POSSIBLE, ADDING IN THE WORD INTACT, READING IN THE WORD INTACT IT SEEMS TO ME IS NOT A REASONABLE...
|
| 00:43:09 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DO AN INTACT PROCEDURE IF THEY CAN BECAUSE IT INVOLVES LESS RISK TO THE MOTHER FROM ACTS PERFORMED INSIDE. AND IF THAT'S THE CASE, THEN IT WOULD BE...
|
| 00:44:39 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
YOU START SIMPLY WITH THE FACTUAL PREDICATE FOR YOUR ARGUMENT AND HIS ARGUMENT. YOU SEEM TO BE STARTING FROM, IF I UNDERSTAND THE TWO OF YOU CORRECTLY,...
|
| 00:44:57 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SAME DILATION PROTOCOLS WHETHER THEY'RE GOING TO PERFORM A D&E OR INTACT D&E. >> I THOUGHT THE EVIDENCE WAS THAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR A DIFFERENT DEGREE...
|
| 00:45:16 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
GREATER DEGREE IF YOU'RE INTENDING TO PERFORM A D&X? >> IT DOESN'T PLAY OUT THAT WAY. THEY HAVE DIFFERENT PROTOCOLS BUT THEY'RE LOOKING FOR AS MUCH...
|
| 00:45:28 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
YOUR POSITION THERE AREN'T DIFFERENT DILATION PROTOCOLS IF YOU'RE INTENDING A D&E OR A D&X? >> IT VARIOUS BY DOCTOR. DR. CARHART USES THE SAME DILATION...
|
| 00:45:41 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
HE'S GOING TO DO EITHER. OTHERS MAY TRY TO DO MORE DILATION. AND THEY CAN'T CONTROL THE AMOUNT OF DILATION THEY
|
| 00:45:48 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
GET. >> THEY MAY NOT BE ABLE TO CONTROL IT IN AN ABSOLUTE SENSE, BUT CAN'T THEY GO ABOUT IT IN A WAY THAT WOULD
|
| 00:45:56 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TEND TO PRODUCE LESS RATHER THAN MORE DILATION? >> -- THEY CAN'T GUARANTEE RESULTS BUT COULDN'T THEY AT LEAST START WITH A PROCEDURE THAT WOULD
|
| 00:46:09 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BE LIKELY TO PRODUCE LESS RATHER THAN MORE AND HENCE COME WITHIN THE SAFE HARBOR IF YOU WILL OF THE STATUTE >> THEIR LOOKING FOR A MINIMAL AMOUNT OF...
|
| 00:46:23 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DILATION, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT COULD ADD ADDITIONAL DILATION. BUT FOR THE FIRST DAY OF DILATION, NO, YOUR HONOR, THEY DON'T SEEK MORE OR LESS OVER ONE...
|
| 00:46:38 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ANSWER THE IMPOSSIBLE, BUT DO WE HAVE EVIDENCE THAT WOULD INDICATE THAT THEY CAN OR THAT THEY CAN'T? >> NOT IN THE FIRST DAY OF DILATION, NO. THEY CAN'T...
|
| 00:46:53 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
LESS THAN THAT. >> CAN YOU TELL US WHERE TO LOOK IN THE RECORD FOR THE EVIDENCE ON THAT? >> EACH DOCTOR TESTIFIES ABOUT THEIR OWN DILATION PROTOCOLS,...
|
| 00:47:05 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CIRCUIT APPENDIX. THOSE PORTIONS OF THAT TESTIMONY AND ARE CITED MORE SPECIFICALLY IN THE EIGHTH CIRCUIT BRIEFS WHICH
|
| 00:47:14 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
GOES MORE INTO THE FACTUAL DETAIL EUROPEAN BUTOFF THE
|
| 00:47:18 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CHRIST RIGHT NOW. >> IF THERE WERE AN HEALTH EXCEPTION, THE HEALTH OF THE WOMAN, WOULD THAT OBJECT VARIETY THE VAGUENESS AND OVERBREADTH PROBLEMS THAT...
|
| 00:47:41 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IT'S RISKIER FOR HER HEALTH TO DO IT ONE WAY OR THE OTHER WAY. THEN YOU PICK THE SAFER WAY. IF YOU HAD THAT, THEN WOULDN'T THE CONCERNS ABOUT OVERBREADTH...
|
| 00:48:15 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THAT THEY REFUSE TO DESCRIBE EVEN REGULAR D&ES TO THEIR PATIENTS BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE INDUCTION IS ALWAYS SAFER. SO THOSE DOCTORS WOULD STILL BE AT RISK...
|
| 00:48:59 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
INTENTIONALLY. I DO THINK IF THERE IS A CONSTRUCTION THAT WOULD NARROW THE LAW TO A LIMITED AMOUNT OF INTACT D&E'S, IF YOU READ THE FOR THE PURPOSE...
|
| 00:49:12 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
STATUTE TO BE PERFORMING AN OFERTE ACT FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF COMPLETING DELIVERY, OR RATHER, I'M SORRY, FOR THE PURPOSE OF PERFORMING AN OVERT ACT...
|
| 00:50:01 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AN INTABBLINGT DELIVERY AND HAD NO OTHER CHOICE. ARE YOU SAYING THAT WE COULD INTERPRET THE STATUTE TO SAY THAT THAT IS NOT THE PROHIBITED CRIMINAL...
|
| 00:50:35 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OF PERFORMING AN OVERT ACT THAT THE PERSON KNOWS WILL KILL THE PARTIALLY DELIVERED LIVING SPEED US, IF THAT LANGUAGE WAS INTERPRETED TO BE FOR THE SOLE...
|
| 00:51:26 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CAUSE FETAL DEMISE RATHER THAN CAUSING FETAL DEMISE
|
| 00:51:31 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BECAUSE IT'S AN INTEGRAL PART OF REMOVAL OF THE FETUS FROM THE WOMAN'S UTERUS, AND THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES WOULD BE BANNED UNDER THAT INTERPRETATION....
|
| 00:52:08 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OF PARTIAL-BIRTH ABORTION FRANKLY THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS DONE GRATUITOUSLY, NOT AY AS A PART TO MAKE THE PROCEDURE THE SAFEST FOR THE WOMAN
|
| 00:52:17 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AND AVOIDING INSTRUMENTATION AND AVOIDING HIS RECT MISS WHICH ARE SERIOUS COMPLICATIONS THAT ARE RARE, BUT WHEN THEY OCCUR, THEY ARE CATASTROPHIC...
|
| 00:55:48 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
A, SOMETHING ANOTHER TYPE OF FETAL ANOMALY WHERE THERE IS DISTENSION OF THE ABDOMEN BUT IT'S VERY RARE. >> AND GIVEN YOUR ARGUMENTS FOR THE SAFETY
|
| 00:55:59 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BENEFITS OF THE D&X, I COULDN'T UNDERSTAND WHY THEY WOULDN'T ALSO APPLY TO THE TOTAL DELIVERY OF THE FETUS IN A VERTEX DELIVERY SITUATION? >> I'M...
|
| 00:56:18 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
YOU WANT FEWER INSTRUMENT PASSES. BUT IN THAT CASE, IT'S NOT THE SKULL ITSELF THAT IS PREVENTING THE DELIVERY OF THE FETUS. SO YOUR
|
| 00:56:29 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ARGUMENTS ABOUT WHY THE D&X
|
| 00:56:32 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IS SAFER, FEET FIRST, WOULDN'T THAT APPLY IN A CASE OF TOTAL DELIVERY OF THE FETUS AS WELL? IN OTHER WORDS IF YOU WANT AS MUCH AS THE FETUS INTACT AND...
|
| 00:57:10 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
A SIGNIFICANT FEET AL ANOMALY, THIS IS A SERIOUS ANOMALY, LETHAL THAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT. AND AN OVERT ACT WOULD NEED TO BE PERFORMED
|
| 00:57:23 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THAT WOULD CAUSE FEETAL DEMISE BEFORE THE
|
| 00:57:27 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DELIVERY COULD BE CONTINUED. >> IT SEEMED TO ME THAT YOUR ARGUMENT IS THAT THERE IS ALWAYS A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO USE WHAT THE PHYSICIAN THINKS IS...
|
| 00:57:49 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IN APPLYING THE APPROPRIATE STANDARD OF CASEY WAS THAT THERE HAD TO BE A SUBSTANTIAL BODY OF MEDICAL OPINION, AN
|
| 00:58:01 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OCTOBER STANDARD --
|
| 00:58:03 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AN OBJECTIVE STANDARD THAT SUPPORTS THE USE OF
|
| 00:58:05 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THAT PROCEDURE AND THAT BOTH, THAT BAMS -- BALANCES CONCERNS AGAINST THE THE WOMAN'S HEALTH AGAINST UNFET DISCRETION WHICH THE COURT HAS REJECTED....
|
| 00:58:39 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IT DIDN'T POSE AN UNDUE BURDEN ONTO WOMAN WHICH IS CERTAINLY THE CIRCUMSTANCE WITH THE D&E WHICH IS 95% OF ABORTIONS. >> CAN I JUST FOLLOW UP ON THAT?...
|
| 00:58:58 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DOES NOT IN ITSELF CONSTITUTE AN UNDUE BURDEN? >> IN OTHER WORDS UNDER JUSTICE KENNEDY'S HYPOTHETICAL, HE SAID THAT THE STATE CAN PROHIBIT SOMETHING...
|
| 00:59:11 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
PROCEDURE AND YOUR ANSWER WAS SO LONG AS IT DOESN'T POSE AN UNDUE BURDEN, AND I WAS FOLLOWING UP TO SAY SO THAT IN SOME CIRCUMSTANCES, PROHIBITING WHAT...
|
| 00:59:24 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
NO, I UNDERSTAND JUSTICE KENNEDY'S QUESTION TO BE COULD THE STATE PROHIBIT WHAT IT THINKS IS NOT THE SAFEST. AND UNDER THE STENBERG RULING ALTHOUGH...
|
| 00:59:46 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THEIR USE AS THE SAFEST PROCEDURE IN SOME CIRCUMSTANCE. SO PERHAPS I MISUNDERSTOOD YOUR QUESTION. BUT THE COURT HAS NOT EVER ADDRESSED THE QUESTION,...
|
| 01:01:54 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
RECORD IS REALLY OVERWHELMINGLY IN OUR FAVOR. I POINT YOU TO DR. FITS HUGH, WHO IS ONE OF THE PLAINTIFFS. HE SAID THAT HE DOESN'T TRY FOR INTACT DELIVERY...
|
| 01:03:01 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE 9TH CIRCUIT COURT OF APPEALS AGREED THAT THE ACT IS UNION CONSTITUTIONAL. >> NOW WE WILL HERE ARGUMENT IN GLANS VERSUS PLANT PARENTHOOD. MR. CLEMENT?...
|
| 01:03:32 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ACT. IF I CAN BEGIN ABOUT TALKING ABOUT WHETHER WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HERE IS MEDICAL
|
| 01:03:39 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
NECESSITY OR SOME MARGINAL EFFECT ON THE RISKS. I THINK TO UNDERSTAND THEIR ARGUMENT, THEIR ARGUMENT HAS TO BE A MATTER OF SIMPLY MARGINAL RISKS....
|
| 01:06:20 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SIGNIFICANT -- >> IS THERE A DEFINITION IN THE LAW OF SIGNIFICANT RISK OTHER THAN A DOCTOR WHO SAYS I HAVE BEEN TRAINED TO TRY TO SAVE RISK. IS THERE...
|
| 01:06:44 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
PARTICULAR RISK OTHER THAN THE FACT THAT IT IS AN INJECTION, IF THAT COUNTS AS A SIGNIFICANT RISK, WE MIGHT AS WELL STRIKE IT IN STENBERG. >> MY
|
| 01:07:01 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OBJECTION IS THE SAME. IS THERE ANYTHING IN THE MEDICAL LITERATURE THAT TALKS ABOUT SIGNIFICANT OR MINOR RISKS? YOU FILL OUT FORMS WHEN YOU GO TO THE...
|
| 01:07:23 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OF 100, IS THAT SIGNIFICANT? I DON'T KNOW. >> WELL, IT IS A VERY DIFFICULT QUESTION TO EVALUATE IN THE AND STRUCTURE, JUDGE KENNEDY, AND I THINK...
|
| 01:07:47 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CERVICAL INCOMPETENCE BECAUSE IT IS ASSOCIATED WITH FURTHER DECLARATION. THAT WAS POINTED OUT IN THE CHAY SON STUDY WHERE TWO OF THE 17 WOMEN WHO...
|
| 01:09:04 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CONDITION, UNLESS THERE IS SOME REASON NOT TO PUT THE INJECTION IN.
|
| 01:09:10 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IF THE DOCTOR REALLY THOUGHT THE D AND X WAS THE WAY TO GO, HE COULD START OFF WITH A DIE JOCKS INOR OTHER INJECTION. I THINK THE VERY FACT THEY...
|
| 01:11:02 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AND EXCLUDE? >> LET ME ANSWER IT THIS WAY. I THINK THE BOTTOM LINE WOULD BE UNDER OUR VIEW OF THE STATUTE, THAT THOSE DOCTORS LIKE DR. CRANEN AND OTHERS...
|
| 01:11:25 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
COVERED BY THE STATUTE, BECAUSE THEY WOULD NOT SEA WHAT IS REAL ESTATE A COMPOUND MENS REA STATUTE. AND IN THOSE CASES, THE INTENT OF THE DOCTOR PERFORMING...
|
| 01:12:22 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
GETS AN EXTREME AMOUNT OF DIE
|
| 01:12:26 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
LATION, I THINK THE INTENT OF CONGRESS WOULD STILL BE FOR THEM TO DO A DISMEMBERMENT PROCEDURE RATHER THAN AN INTACT REMOVAL. BUT IF THIS COURT THOUGHT...
|
| 01:13:51 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE LOWER COURT SAID IS THAT EVERYONE AGREES IT IS NOT ALWAYS POSSIBLE TO KILL THE FETUS? >> CAN I RESPOND SOME >> HE GOES ON AND TELLS YOU WHY....
|
| 01:14:20 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
INJECTION. >> IF I MAY RESPOND TO THAT, THERE ARE
|
| 01:14:23 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CERTAIN SITUATIONS WHERE THE INJECTIONS ARE CONTRAINDICATED. THEY ARE RELATIVELY RARE SITUATIONS. THE STATUTE MIGHT POSEY A PROBLEM IF YOU CAN IDENTIFY...
|
| 01:14:42 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BE CONTRAINDICATED. IT IS VERY SMALL. ANOTHER POINT MADE IN THE RECORD WHICH I THINK IS IMPORTANT IS THEY SUGGEST WELL, MAYBE IF YOU CAN'T DO THE INJECTION...
|
| 01:15:28 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SIGNIFICANT MEDICAL OPINION AS THIS DOCTOR IS NOW ILLUSTRATING, I DON'T SEE HOW IT IS GOING TO WRORK. AT LEAST I DON'T SEE HOW IT IS GOING TO WORK WITHOUT...
|
| 01:16:06 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DR. CHASTEN AND DR. FREDERICK SON TRY TO DO THE PROCEDURE EVERY TIME. THEY DON'T DO IT BECAUSE THEY ARE INDIFFERENT TO HEALTH. IN THEIR BEST JUDGMENT...
|
| 01:17:23 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
INTACT DELIVERY, AT WHICH POINT HE IS PRESENTED WITH A PROBLEM. DON'T YOU HAVE AN INTENT TO COMMIT THE MOST LICKLY CONSEQUENCES OF YOUR ACTS? ARE...
|
| 01:18:16 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
A D AND X END UP PERFORMING A D AND E. SHE SAID 100% OF THE TIME
|
| 01:18:26 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SHE END UP WITH DISMEMBERMENT. >> I GATHER YOUR SUBMISSION IS YOU CAN TELL WHO IS SETTING OUT TO PERFORM WHICH BY THE PROTOCOL? >> YES. CAN YOU...
|
| 01:18:52 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DIE LATION WITH A SECOND ROUND OF LAMB NARROW YA. LIKE THE
|
| 01:18:58 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
INJECTION, EVERY PROCEDURE HAS A RISK. IF YOU LOOK AT DR. CRANE EN'S TESTIMONY, 174-TO 177, HE SAYS HE DOESN'T LIKE TO DO A SECOND ROUND OF LAMB AIR YA...
|
| 01:20:47 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
RIGHT THAT THE D AND X PATIENTS WERE AT A FURTHER JESTATIONAL AGE, BUT THE OTHER PATIENTS WERE OLDER. THE D AND E PATIENTS WERE ON AVERAGE TWO YEARS...
|
| 01:21:05 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WITH GREATER RISK. THIS IS A STUDY PUT TOGETHER OF ONE THE PLAINTIFF'S PRACKTIGS AREAS. ONE OF THE INTUITIONS IS THAT BECAUSE YOU REMOVE IT INTACT,...
|
| 01:21:51 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TO ABORTION HAS BEEN STATE REGULATION. AND THIS MEASURE IS SAYING TO THE STATES, LIKE IT OR NOT, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO BAN A PARTICULAR...
|
| 01:22:42 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THIS ISN'T THE ONLY INSTANCE IN WHICH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS GOTTEN INVOLVED TO ADDRESS ISSUES. >> IT WAS A QUESTION OF FUNDING -- >> BUT ALSO...
|
| 01:23:09 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OF THE STATES. >> I THINK THAT IS ALSO PART OF THE
|
| 01:23:13 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BACK DROP. THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT GETS INVOLVED IN THIS ISSUE
|
| 01:23:17 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DEPENDING ON YOUR PERSPECTIVE FOR GOOD OR FOR HARM. >> THAT BRINGS UP A QUESTION I WAS INTENDING TO ASK YOU. I NOTICE THE FINDINGS SAID NOTHING ABOUT...
|
| 01:23:32 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
FIGURES FIGS DOES THAT MEAN IF IT IS PERFORMED IN A FREE
|
| 01:23:41 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CLINIC IS NOT COVERED? >> I THINK IT COULD BE SBEMPTED EITHER WAY. I THINK MY UNDERSTANDING IS A FREE CLINIC WOULD BE COVERED. THERE MAY BE DIFFERENCES...
|
| 01:24:04 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
COURT'S PRECEDENTS IN OTHER AREAS HAVE SUGGESTED IT IS NOT JUST A MARRY OF SERVICE IS PROVIDED, BUT IN ORDER TO GET THE SERVICE -- THAT HASN'T BEEN...
|
| 01:24:19 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CASE. IF IT HAD BEEN WE WOULD PROBABLY BE A DEFINITIVE POSITION
|
| 01:24:24 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ONE WAY OR THE OTHER. I DON'T THINK THE CONSTITUTION A LOT TURNS ON THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION. I THINK IN REGARDS TO THE CHASTEN STUDY, IT IS IMPORTANT...
|
| 01:26:39 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ALTERNATE PROCEDURE IF THE FACILITY IS NOT OPEN. >> THAT IS NOT REALLY A CONCERN . THE DIFFERENCE IS SOME CLINICS WILL ONLY OFFER THE D AND X...
|
| 01:27:04 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DAE. AND AGAINST THE D AND E IS WHAT THE ESCORT DESCRIBED IN THE NEBRASKA CASE AS THE GOLD STANDARD OF SAFETY, THEN SHE HAS THE SAFETY OPTION. >> SO...
|
| 01:27:42 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
PROCEDURE. IN THE ONE DAYS >>: HOW DO YOU DO THAT? I LOOKED AT THAT PART OF THE STATUTE, COMPARE IT WITH THE STATUTE IN CASS CARD, A THE STATUTE FORBADE...
|
| 01:28:08 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OF PERFORMING AN ABORTION THE DOCTOR KNOWS WILL KILL A FETUS. IN THIS ONE SAYS YOU CAN'T DELIVER PAST THE FEET YOU WILL TRUNK FOR THE PURPOSE OF...
|
| 01:29:00 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
C50UR. BUT THE THE DOCTOR WHO SETS OUT PERFORMING A D AND E THINGS HE
|
| 01:29:09 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
HAS A FETUS DISMEMBER, AND IT DOESN'T, SO THE BORGS BOTTOM PORTION OF THE FETUS DEE SEND OUTSIDE THE WOMB. >> IF YOU THOUGHT THAT A LEG, WAS A SUBSTANTIAL...
|
| 01:29:52 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THAT WHAT YOU NEED TO SEA THE STATUTE -- WITH THE ACT OF PERFORMING AN ACT LEADING TO FEETAL DEMISE. AND YOU ARE TRYING TO DO SOMETHING. IF I COULD...
|
| 01:30:38 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THAT THERE IS A NARROW CAT GO OF PREVIABILITY ABORTIONS. AS THIS
|
| 01:30:45 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
COURT UNDERSTOOD THAT TERM IN STENBERG, IT CAN BE BAND SO LONG AS THE BAN CONTAINED A HEALTH EXCEPTION. I WOULD LIKE TO LEAVE THE HEALTH EXCEPTION QUESTION...
|
| 01:34:37 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AS MRS. SMITH INDICATED, THE FETUS SUFFERED FROM A SERIOUS LETHAL NOMLY THAT INVOLVED A GREATLY
|
| 01:34:47 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DESCENDED ABDOMEN. THE FETUS PRENDED IN A HEAD FIRST PRESENTATION. THE HEAD DELIVERED THROUGH THE SER VEHICLES, BUT THE ONLY WAY TO COMPLETE THE PROCEDURE...
|
| 01:35:54 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE THEORY, THEN A BREACH DELIVERY AND NONBREACH DELIVERY IS IRRELEVANT. WHAT IS YOUR ANSWER? >> THE CLEAR LINE THAT THIS COURT DREW IN STENBERG WAS...
|
| 01:36:24 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WOULD BE CONSTITUTIONAL TO BAN. >> WE SAID THAT WOULD BE AN APPROPRIATE LINE, BUT THE QUESTION HERE IS IS IT REALLY ESSENTIAL TO AN APPROPRIATE LINE...
|
| 01:36:50 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DELIVERY IS THE LEAST CENTRAL. BUT THE OTHER TWO HALL MARKS, THE EXTRACTION TO THE HEAD FOLLOWED BY A COMPLETELY INTACT DELIVERY AFTER COMMIES WERE ...
|
| 01:37:08 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CONGRESS ENACTED. NOW TODAY GENERAL CLEMENT SEEMS TO BE ARGUES THERE IS A DIFFERENT LINE THAN THE COURT RECOGNIZED THAN STENBERG. THIS COURT UNDERSTOOD...
|
| 01:38:26 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE UTERUS. >> WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT A LEG DYING AND THE FETUS DYING AND THAT IS NOT THE LEG. >> THE IMPORTANT POINT IS THAT THE
|
| 01:38:36 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
GOVERNMENT ACKNOWLEDGES THAT IN A STANDARD D AND E THE
|
| 01:38:40 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
FETUS CAN BE EXTRACTED PAST THE AND ATOMIC LANDMARK. SO IT ISN'T A BRIGHT LINE POSITION BETWEEN
|
| 01:38:49 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
INTACT AND NONINTACT. BUT IN STENBERG THIS COURT DREW THAT LINE. >>
|
| 01:38:55 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WHERE DOES THE GOVERNMENT CONCEDE THAT IN A STANDARD D AND E THE LIVING FETUS IS EXTRACTED PAST THE ANATOMICAL LANDMARK? I THOUGHT THE POSITION...
|
| 01:39:17 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BRIEF, THEY DESCRIBE TWO CIRCUMSTANCES THAT THEY SAY -- OR TWO PARTS OF THE LAW THAT THEY SAY SAVES THE LAW. THE FIRST IS AND ATOMIC LANDMARK AND THE...
|
| 01:39:33 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE OVERT ACT AS PHASING NONINTACT D AND E'S THAT WERE NOT ALREADY SCOMPLUDED BY THE ANATOMICAL REQUIREMENT. IN ADDITION IN THEIR REPLY BRIEF ON...
|
| 01:40:27 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE GOVERNMENT WIT DOCTOR ADMITTED THAT IN MY STANDARD DMP AND E, THE FETUS CAN BE EXTRACTED PAST THE AND ATOMIC LANDMARK OF THE NAVEL. >> ENPRIOR TO...
|
| 01:40:43 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DEMISE? >> THAT'S RIGHT, YOUR HONOR. >> DID YOU UNDERSTAND THE GOVERNMENT'S ANSWER TO THAT TO BE THAT THERE WAS -- IF THERE WAS NO SBEPT THEN THE DOCTOR...
|
| 01:41:03 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE LAW. THAT IS IN EVERY D
|
| 01:41:06 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AND E, WHETHER THE
|
| 01:41:08 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SBNT IS TO DO AN INTACT OR NONINTACT DA AND E. THE INTENT
|
| 01:41:18 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IT TO MINIMIZE THE INSERTIONS OF INSTRUMENTS. EACH INSERTION OF STRUGS INCREASES THE RISK OF CAUSING HARM TO THE WOMAN'S UTERUS. WHETHER THE FIGURES...
|
| 01:43:02 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BUT DEMISE AT THAT POINT. WITH A TYPICAL D AND E DEMISE IT GOING TO HAPPEN BEFORE THE ANATOMICAL LANDMARK, IT IS NOT COVERED BY THIS LAW. >> IT COMES...
|
| 01:43:36 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
NECESSARY TO CLEAR AND OBSTRUCTION -- >> WHAT ABOUT THE SOLICITOR GENERAL'S RECORD WITH RESPECT TO THE DINCHING PROTOCOLS ON DIE LATION WHICH SUGGESTION...
|
| 01:44:01 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
STE TRICKSES AND GINECOLINGIST, THEY HAVE DEFINED IT SPECIFICALLY BY REFERENCE TO DIE LATION
|
| 01:44:10 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
PROTOCOLS. THIS STATUTE MAKES NO MENTION OF DIE LATION PROTOCOL. >> BUT THE DIE LATION PROTOCOL CERTAINLY WOULD BE RELY VENT ON THE QUESTION OF INTENT...
|
| 01:44:38 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TWO-DAY PROTOCOL. >> THE QUESTION IS WHY WOULDN'T FOLLOWING ONE PROTOCOL RATHER THAN ANOTHER PROTOCOL BE
|
| 01:44:46 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
VERY SIGNIFICANT EVIDENCE OF WHAT WAS INTENDED? >> BECAUSE SOME DOCTORS USE A TWO-DAY PROTOCOL EVEN IF THEY DON'T EXPECT TO GET AN INTACT D AND...
|
| 01:45:01 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BUT NOT A COMPLETE CORRELATION BETWEEN THE AMOUNT OF DAY LATION AND THE PERCENT OF TIME THEY GET AND INTACT D AND E. >> DO
|
| 01:45:12 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WE HAVE ANY INDICATION IN THE RECORD IN YOUR CASE ABOUT THE EFFECT ON SAFETY OR ANY OTHER ASPECT OF THE PROCEDURE IF THESE DOCTORS WOULD CHANGE THEIR...
|
| 01:45:34 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE ONE-DAY PROTOCOL, SOME DOCTORS -- I THINK ONE THING IS DOCTORS PERFORM THEM MOST SAFELY IF THEY HE DO THEM IN THE WAY THEY ARE MOST ACUSTOMED....
|
| 01:45:55 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THAT BEARS MY QUESTION. >> SEVERAL WITNESSES, INCLUDING SEVERAL GOVERNMENT WITNESSES -- >> DO YOU MEAN STOP ONCE THEY HAVE STARTED WITH A DIFFERENT ...
|
| 01:46:11 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AS OPPOSE TODD ADOPSING A DIFFERENT PROTOCOL ENTIRELY? >> WELL. NO. DR. COOK, THE GOVERNMENT WITNESS, AND THE OTHER GOVERNMENT
|
| 01:46:23 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WITNESS' GREED THAT REMOVING
|
| 01:46:26 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE FETUS AS INTACT AS POSSIBLE IS
|
| 01:46:30 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE SAFEST WAY TO PERFORM THE PROCEDURE
|
| 01:46:33 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AS POSSIBLE. >> FOR SUCH A DOCTOR,
|
| 01:46:37 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE DOCTOR WHO THINKS WHAT I AM TRYING TO DO IN AN MRGESI SITUATION AS MUCH OF THE FETUS AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE, WROO SUCH A DOCTOR OFTEN, NEVER, SOMETIMES...
|
| 01:46:57 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
FETUS, TRY TO DRAW IT OUT, AND WHAT IS MOST LIKELY TO HAPPEN THE TRUNK, A LOT OF IT WILL COME OUT, AND THE HEAD OF THE FETUS WILL DISMEMBER? >> IT CERTAINLY...
|
| 01:47:35 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
POSSIBLE. IN A GOOD MANY CASES IT WILL BE EXTRACTED PAST
|
| 01:47:40 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE NAVEL, BUT NOT TO THE HEAD. I DON'T THINK THE GOVERNMENT PROFFERS THE IDEA OF SPECIFIC INTENT. BUT AGAIN, BECAUSE THE STATUTE DOESN'T TRACK THE...
|
| 01:47:50 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BETWEEN THE TWO PROCEDURES, THAT HAVING A SPECIFIC ACCIDENT DOES DOESN'T SAY IN THE STATUTE. THE DOCTOR MAY INTEND TO PERFORM THE ABORTION AS DEFINED...
|
| 01:48:30 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
NECESSARY EXTRACTION? >> AT APPROXIMATELY 22 WEEKS OF PREGNANCY THEY OFFERED THE WOMEN THE OPTION OF
|
| 01:48:41 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
UNDERGOING THE FETAL DEMISE INJECTION BEFORE GOING ON. THERE WAS TESTIMONY THAT THAT INJECTION PROCEDURE CARRIES SIGNIFICANT RISK TO SOME WOMEN, ...
|
| 01:48:56 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
HAVE A SUSS ACCEPT IBBLET TO INFECTION, LIKE WOMEN FROM H.I.V. -- >> IT WOULD BE THE SAFER THING TO AVOIT CRIMINAL RESPONSIBILITY? >> BUT THE PROBE...
|
| 01:49:24 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
LATER WHEN THE ABORTION IS GETTING CLOSER TO THE VIABILITY LINE. IT IS
|
| 01:49:29 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
A PSYCHOLOGICAL REASON FOR THE WOMAN. THAT'S WHY IT IS AN OFFER. >> WHAT ARE THE PSYCHOLOGICAL REASONS? >> IF SHE WOULD
|
| 01:49:40 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
PERFORM TO UNDERGO THAT BEFORE EXTRACTION. OTHER WOMEN ABSOLUTELY DON'T WANT THAT AND FEEL THAT -- IT IS A VERY PERSONAL QUESTION THAT REALLY GOES...
|
| 01:49:58 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
MORAL RELIGIOUS DECISION TO END
|
| 01:50:01 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
HER PREGNANCY, OVEN FOR TRAGIC REASONS, HOW DOES SHE WANT THE FETUS TO UNDERGO DEMISE. DIFFERENT PEOPLE WILL HAVE DIFFERENT VIEWS ABOUT THIS. HERE CONGRESS...
|
| 01:50:47 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ALAND SIGNIFICANT. >> YES, YOUR HONOR, IT DOES MATTER. MARGIN NATURAL SAFETY WOULD NOT BE ENOUGH. WHAT IS IMPORTANT IS YOU ASSESS THE QUESTION OF...
|
| 01:51:11 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ALSO LOOK AT THE INCIDENCE OF AVERTED HARMS? IS IT A THEORETICAL INQUIRY OR IS IT TO SOME EXTENT A QUANTITY FIDE INQUIRY? >> WEAPON, YOUR HONOR, I THINK...
|
| 01:51:26 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
A QUANTITY FIDE INQUIRY. ULTIMATELY THIS COURT HAS NEVER LOOKED AT THE CONSAL QUESTION OF WHEN AN ABORTION ADD STATUTE INTERFERES WITH A WOMAN'S HEALTH...
|
| 01:51:44 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WOMEN ARE EFFECTED. >> DOESN'T THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION TURN LARGELY ON THE AGE OF THE FETUS? THERE IS A VAST DECISION BETWEEN THE DECISION A MOTHER...
|
| 01:52:09 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CONGRESSIONAL QUESTIONS IS THE PAIN TO THE FETUS. IT SEEMS AFTER 26 WEEKS THEY FEEL PAIN AND THAT COULD AFFECT THE DECISION DRAMATICALLY. >> THE IMPORTANT...
|
| 01:52:45 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SPREAD OF CANCER THROUGHOUT THE WOMAN'S BODY. >> THE WOMAN CAN TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THAT AT A CERTAIN POINT OF TIME. WHY IS THAT BEYOND THE SCOPE OF...
|
| 01:53:11 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
HAS NEVER RECOGNIZED A STATE INTEREST THAT WAS SUFFICIENT TO TRUMP THE WOMAN'S INTEREST IN HER HEALTH. IF THE WOMAN AND HER DOCTOR TOGETHER AGREE THAT...
|
| 01:54:01 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
COURT'S HOLDING IN STENBERG WHERE THE RECORD WAS LEST ROBUST, THAT WE HAVE THAT SUBSTANTIAL MEDICAL AUTHORITY
|
| 01:54:12 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
HERE. DOCTORS NEED TO USE THAT JUDGMENT TO PROVIDE THAT PROCEDURE WHEN IN THEIR SOUND CLINICAL EXPERIENCE IT IS GOING TO AVERT CATASTROPHIC HEALTH...
|
| 01:55:03 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
GRANT RELIEF, UNDOUBTEDLY SHE WOULD NOT GET THE RELIEF SHE NEEDED IN TIME. >> WELL, THE ANSWER GIVEN TO THAT
|
| 01:55:12 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WAS THAT YOU COULD HAVE A PREENFORCEMENT PROCEDURE. YOU COULD BACK UP THE CLOCK. >> I AM NOT SURE I ACTUALLY UNDERSTOOD HIS ANSWER THOUGH BECAUSE...
|
| 01:55:31 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
LAW BANS ABORTIONS EN >>
|
| 01:55:39 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
EVEN WHEN THE DOCTOR BELIEVES IT HAS SIGNIFICANT IMPACTS TO THE PATIENTS. >> STENBERG SAID THERE WAS A LINE THAT COULD BE DRAWN BETWEEN PER MISERABLY...
|
| 01:56:02 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WAYS. THIS STATUTE DEFIANTLY REJECTED THIS COURT'S VIEW THAT
|
| 01:56:08 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BECAUSE THERE IS SUBSTANTIAL MEDICAL AUTHORITY FOR THE PROPOSITION THAT INTACT D AND E IS SOMETIMES SAFER, A HEALTH EXCEPTION IS SOMETIMES NEEDED ...
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| 01:59:59 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THAN HALF WAY OUT IS A
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| 02:00:01 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
GOOD PLATES TO DRAW THE LINE. MY CO-COUNSEL IS CORRECT, THIS IS
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| 02:00:06 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
A PREENFORCEMENT CHALLENGE IN RESPONSE TO YOUR QUESTION, JUSTICE KENNEDY, BUT IT IS A SPATIAL CHALLENGE. IF THE WORTH REJECTS THIS AND ALLOWS THIS...
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| 02:02:57 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ON
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| 02:03:00 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
C-SPAN.
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NOTE: The transcript for this program was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.