| 00:00:07 |
none, -
HOURS. >> WE WILL COME TO ORDER. 45 YEARS AGO, PRESIDENT KENNEDY CHALLENGED THE NATION, AND HE SAID, QUOTE, I BELIEVE THAT THIS NATION SHOULD COMMIT...
|
| 00:00:41 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
TASK BUT HE ALSO SAW THE RISKS OF FAILING TO ACT. AND HE SAID. WHILE WE CANNOT GUARANTEE THAT HE WILL ONE DAY BE FIRST, WE CAN GUARANTEE THAT ANY FAILURE...
|
| 00:07:17 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
A
|
| 00:07:20 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
CHANCE TO TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE THINGS, ABOUT SOME OF THE POINTS YOU MADE. INCLUDECLUDING THE MAN ON THE MOON AND THE BUSINESS TRIP ANALOGY BECAUSE...
|
| 00:07:34 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
A MICROPHONE CLOSE ENOUGH. >> IT IS ON AND NOW I CAN HEAR YOU VERY WELL. THANK YOU. >> OKAY. CHAIRMAN, BAUCUS, MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE, THANK YOU...
|
| 00:07:53 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
HAVE COLLECTED THEIR
|
| 00:07:57 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
W-2s, THEIR 10 90s, THEIR
|
| 00:07:59 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
HOME MORTGAGE INTRUST STATEMENTS AND COUNTLESS OTHER PIECES OF PAPER TO FILL OUT THEIR TAX RETURNS. THIS IS ANUAL RITUAL FOR AMERICANS COMPLETED WITHOUT...
|
| 00:16:21 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
MAKING PROGRESS. I BELIEVE THAT IF YOU HAVE AN 85% COMPLIANCE RATE, THAT'S A
|
| 00:16:27 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
LEVEL THAT PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD
|
| 00:16:29 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
LOOK AT THIS AND LOOK AT THIS WITH GREAT
|
| 00:16:32 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
ADMIRATION. SO TO GO BEYOND THAT, WE NOW, IT'S A MATTER OF BALANCE. WEIGHING THE BURDEN YOU ARE PUTTING, PUTTING ON THE COMPLIANT TAXPAYERS. NOW WHAT...
|
| 00:17:08 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
RIDING ON OUR SYSTEM, AND WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT
|
| 00:17:10 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
HOW TO DEAL WITH
|
| 00:17:11 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
THIS.
|
| 00:17:12 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
NOW, YOUR QUESTION OF THE GOAL. AND YOU KNOW, I WOULD LOVE TO GET TO
|
| 00:17:20 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
90%. I WOULD LIKE TO GET THERE AS MUCH AS YOU WOULD. SO
|
| 00:17:23 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
AS I'VE THOUGHT ABOUT THE GOAL, TWO PROBLEMS I HAVE WITH IT, NOW, I'LL USE YOUR MAN ON THE MOON ANALOGY. WHEN WE GOT THE MAN ON THE MOON, IT WOULD BE...
|
| 00:19:35 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
THINK COMMISSIONER EVERSON
|
| 00:19:37 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
IS QUITE OPTIMISTIC THAT
|
| 00:19:39 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
IF WE PASS THE LEGISLATIVE PROPOSALS, PASS
|
| 00:19:42 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
THE FUNDING AND THE BUDGET, THAT WE KEEP WORKING ON THE THINGS WE ARE WORKING ON, WE WILL MAKE PROGRESS. AND I WANT TO MAKE PROGRESS. BUT WHAT I DON'T...
|
| 00:20:18 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
SUMMARY SAYS THERE'S NO
|
| 00:20:19 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
POT OF GOLD HERE THAT'S BECAUSE ANY ATTEMPTS TO REDUCE THE TAX GAP AND LARGE SCALE NECESSARILY MUST INCREASE THE BURDEN ON TAXPAYERS AND DECREASE...
|
| 00:21:00 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
I THINK ARE NOT DRUCONIAN. ONE IS IMPROVED SERVICE. >> YEP. >> THAT IS DON'T SHUT DOWN FACE TO FACE TAXPAYER ASSISTANT CENTERS. >> WE WILL A-- WE WOULD...
|
| 00:21:15 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
FREE, DIRECT,
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| 00:21:16 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
IRS PORTALS SO EVERYBODY CAN FILE -- >>
|
| 00:21:19 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
I MISSED YOUR SECOND. WHAT WAS YOUR SECOND. >> FREE DIRECT IRS PORTALS
|
| 00:21:24 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
SO EVERYONE CAN FILE FOR FREE, FREE,
|
| 00:21:26 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
FASTER REFUNDS, LESS ERRORS AND SO FORTH MORE ELECTRONIC FILING.
|
| 00:21:32 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
THIRD, EIMPROVED REGULATION PREPARERS. WE ALL KNOW THE GROES DISSERVICE A LOT OF PRE-- GROSS DISSERVICE A LOT OPREPARERS
|
| 00:21:41 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
FOR -ARE PERFORMING
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| 00:21:43 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
AND. GAO DID A STUDY ON THAT AND IT WAS DEVASTATING HOW BADLY THE PREPARERS ARE PAID. IT IS NOT DRUCONIAN I WOULD THINK. BETTER TECHNOLOGY. WORK SMARTER,...
|
| 00:22:50 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
IT. MEET THREE MONTHS FROM NOW WHETHER YOU RECOMMEND IT OR DON'T RECOMMEND IT BUT YOUR BEST JUDGETMENT WHAT IT TAKES TO MEET 90% COMPLIANCE OVER TEN...
|
| 00:23:21 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
WITH REGARD TO THE CORPORATE SIDE AND, AND INDIVIDUAL AND CORPORATE SIDE WITH REGARD TO TAX SHELTERS.
|
| 00:23:27 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
BETTER TECHNOLOGY. SO THIS IS SOMETHING WE'RE WORKING VERY, VERY
|
| 00:23:32 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
HARD ON, AND THAT'S PART -- WE HAVE, WE HAVE SEVEN PRINCIPLES, AND THESE ARE, YOU KNOW, THE ONES YOU NAMED ARE, ARE INCLUDED IN THOSE. SO THESE ARE...
|
| 00:24:35 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
TERMS OF EQUITY TO ALL TAXPAYERS. THEY ARE NOW TELLING
|
| 00:24:40 |
Conrad, Kent - U.S. Senator, [D] North Dakota
US THE TAX GAP, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT'S OWD AND WHAT'S PAID BACK IN 2001 WAS $345 BILLION FOR THAT ONE YEAR ALONE. DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT'S ...
|
| 00:27:33 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
|
| 00:27:35 |
Conrad, Kent - U.S. Senator, [D] North Dakota
ON. YOU CAN DO BETTER THAN THAT. WE HAVE NOT DISCUSSED TAX HAVENS. THAT'S A WHOLE OTHER ELEMENT, BUT ONE THATTOLOGIST DESERVES ATTENTION. I HAVE SHOWN...
|
| 00:30:23 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
VERY, VERY IMPORTANT FIRST STEP IS ENACTING THE PROPOSALS, ENACTING THE BUDGET REQUEST, AND WE ARE WORKING VERY HARD. THE, THE COMMISSIONER -- >> BUT,...
|
| 00:30:58 |
Conrad, Kent - U.S. Senator, [D] North Dakota
COMMITTEE. THE BEST THEY COULD SAY WAS THAT THEY'D CAPTURE MAYBE $20 BILLION OF THAT, AND NOT 'TIL THE END OF THE YEAR. YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT CAPTUREING...
|
| 00:31:34 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
TALKING ABOUT LEGITIMATE ACTIVITY. I'M TALKING ABOUT ILLEGITIMATE. >> AND I WOULD SAY A LOT OF WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THERE IS AGAIN INDIVIDUAL...
|
| 00:31:54 |
Conrad, Kent - U.S. Senator, [D] North Dakota
SECONDS. NO MORE, PLEASE. >> PARTICULARLY WHEN YOU GET INTO THE OFF-SHIR
|
| 00:31:59 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
AREA, THAT IS THE HARDEST AREA FOR US, ONE, BECAUSE THOSE SEEKING TO OBSCURE INFORMATION ARE, IT'S MORE READILY AVAILABLE AND ALSO BECAUSE AS SECRETARY'S...
|
| 00:32:09 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
THERE ARE MANY LEGITIMATE BUSINESS
|
| 00:32:11 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
ACTIVITIES THAT TAKE PLACE AND THIS GETS BEYOND WHAT'S IN THE TAX GAP
|
| 00:32:14 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
TO WHAT MAY NOT BE REALLY POLICY THAT
|
| 00:32:17 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
THE CONGRESS INTENDED BUT IS, IS LEGAL. IN SOME INSTANCES. >> THANK YOU, SENATOR. SENATOR THOMAS? >> THANK YOU. THIS IS ENTHUSIASTIC CONVERSATION HERE...
|
| 00:32:45 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
WE PUT FORWARD ALL OF THEM. >>
|
| 00:32:47 |
Thomas, Craig - U.S. Senator, [R] Wyoming
BUT ARE THEY IN THE BUDGET RESOLUTION? SNE. NO. NO. >> WELL, THEN WHERE ARE WE ON THEM? >> WE NEED TO GET THEM DONE. [LAUGHTER] >> I KNOW, BUT THAT'S...
|
| 00:33:05 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
SEVEN. THERE IS NO PROBLEM WITH WORKING THROUGH THE OTHER SEVEN. >> WHAT I AM
|
| 00:33:08 |
Thomas, Craig - U.S. Senator, [R] Wyoming
SAYING, SENATORS, WHAT, WHAT WE
|
| 00:33:11 |
Thomas, Craig - U.S. Senator, [R] Wyoming
HAVE
|
| 00:33:14 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
FOUND IS -- AND JUST A LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND,
|
| 00:33:16 |
Thomas, Craig - U.S. Senator, [R] Wyoming
I HAVE SPENT A LOT OF TIME WITH PEOPLE AT
|
| 00:33:20 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
|
| 00:33:22 |
Thomas, Craig - U.S. Senator, [R] Wyoming
TREASURY PEOPLE AT IRS, THE MAN ON MY RIGHT, THE MAN ON MY LEFT SAYING HOW DO WE GO THROUGH
|
| 00:33:28 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
THIS AND THINKING THROUGH AND I WOULD SAY THE 16 PROPOSALS WE PUT UP THERE WE THOUGHT WERE THE BEST THEY ARE ISSUES WITH A NUMBER OF THEM IT'S A MAT...
|
| 00:34:15 |
Thomas, Craig - U.S. Senator, [R] Wyoming
QUESTION. THE GAP, WHICH I TRIED TO GET TO EARLIER, IT'S,ITHS RR, IT'S THE GAP IS A AN ESTIMATE THAT IS BORDERING ON AN EDGE QUATED GUESS BECAUSE...
|
| 00:34:32 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
IN 2001, WE GOT THE RESULTS FOUR YEARS LATER. NOW, SENATOR, THINK ABOUT THIS A MINUTE. IF, IF 8SY% IS AS A RESULT OF UNREPORTED INCOME, IT'S, IF YOU...
|
| 00:36:44 |
Thomas, Craig - U.S. Senator, [R] Wyoming
THAT I'M NOT I WOULD SAY HE WAS REFERRING TO, THERE WAS PLENTY OF ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES SO THERE IT'S A MATTER OF COMPLIANCE IN BEING ABLE TO HUNTING HIM...
|
| 00:37:04 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
IT. BUT AGAIN GET TO THE CORPORATE SIDE THAT'S THE IMPORTANT PART OF IT, THE CORPORATE TAX SIDE WHEN YOU ARE LOOKING AT INDIVIDUALS, A LOT OF THESE...
|
| 00:37:39 |
Thomas, Craig - U.S. Senator, [R] Wyoming
RECORD. I'D LOVE TO HEAR MYSELF SAY IT, BUT I THINK WE BETTER
|
| 00:37:42 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
GO ON TO OTHER THINGS. [LAUGHTER] YOU ARE SMILING. DO YOU REALIZE YOU
|
| 00:37:49 |
Thomas, Craig - U.S. Senator, [R] Wyoming
ARE SMILING? SO I'M GOING TO GO TO THE SECRETARY. AND ASK SOME QUESTIONS,
|
| 00:37:53 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
AND IT'S GOING TO BE
|
| 00:37:55 |
Grassley, Charles "Chuck" E. - U.S. Senator, [R] Iowa
ABOUT ENFORCEMENT AND I THINK MY STAFF KIND OF GAVE, HOPEFULLY GAVE YOU AN IDEA OF WHAT I WAS GOING TO ASK BECAUSE I AM NOT PLAY AGGOTCHA GAME WITH...
|
| 00:40:12 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
WOULD BRING IN $130 BILLION? >> I WILL MAKE A GENERAL COMMENT AND THEN
|
| 00:40:19 |
Grassley, Charles "Chuck" E. - U.S. Senator, [R] Iowa
I'LL, LET THE EXPERT SPEAK BUT I BELIEVE THAT THIS IS A VERY, VERY IMPORTANT BALANCE TO BE -- HAVE, THE IRS BE VIGILANT AND PROACTIVE AND NOT BE ABUSIVE.
|
| 00:40:35 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
AND I CAN REMEMBER BACK WHEN I WAS IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR IN THE 90s READING PRESS ABOUT HEARINGS LIKE THIS, AND THE PRESS THEN WAS ABOUT ABUSIVE TACTICS...
|
| 00:42:42 |
Grassley, Charles "Chuck" E. - U.S. Senator, [R] Iowa
I'LL LET MARK ANSWER IT SPECIFICALLY. HE'S THE EXPERT. BUT WHAT I WOULD JUST SAY TO YOU AS SOMEONE WHO SPENT A LOT OF TIME TALKING WITH HIM ABOUT...
|
| 00:43:03 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
IT. HE'S ASKING FOR WHAT HE NEEDS. HE'S PICKING A NUMBER AND SAYING HES ARE THE NUMBER OF IRS AGENTS WE CAN HIRE, WE CAN TRAIN, WE CAN ASSIMILATE. AND...
|
| 00:43:55 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
I BEGIN ON THAT TAX GAP, I HAVE ONE QUESTION NOT RELATED BUT OF TIME, THAT'S TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE
|
| 00:44:03 |
Schumer, Charles E. - U.S. Senator, [D] New York
AND THIS IS TO YOU, MR. SECRETARY, OR TO MR. EVERSON. WE'VE HAD BIG FLOODS IN NEW YORK STATE. THEY OCCURRED SUNDAY AND MONDAY. AND HEAVILY POPULATED...
|
| 00:44:54 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
UNDERSTAND LEE ENTIRELY I TALKED TO A FRIENDS ABOUT THIS AND HIS BASEMENT WAS FLOODED. HE HAD FILED EARLIER. >> YOUR FRIENDS ARE THE EARLYBOARDS BUT...
|
| 00:45:09 |
Schumer, Charles E. - U.S. Senator, [D] New York
GAP. >> THE NET TAX GAP
|
| 00:45:15 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
AS SENATOR BAUCUS SAID IS ESTIMATED AT $300 BILLION A YEAR. IT'S INEXCUSABLE THAT WE HAVE LET TAX AVOIDANCE AND EVASION
|
| 00:45:23 |
Schumer, Charles E. - U.S. Senator, [D] New York
REACH THIS POINT. I FOUND IT ALMOST IMMORAL THAT UNTIL INLAST COUPLE OF YEARS, WE WERE AUDITING WORKING FAMILIES EARNING $25,000 A YEAR AT A HIGHER...
|
| 00:45:35 |
Schumer, Charles E. - U.S. Senator, [D] New York
A MILLION DOLLAR AS YEAR. THIS IDEA, BEFORE YOUR TERM BEGAN, AND YOURS, THAT SOMEHOW IT WAS THE INVESTMENT TAX, THE EITC WHERE ALL THE MONEY WAS I...
|
| 00:47:34 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
PROPOSALS WE'RE MAKING REAL PROGRESS BUT ALL I WAS SAYING WAS THE IDEA THAT WE COULD SET OUT A GOAL AND SAY 90 PYR. I JUST DON'T WANT TO MIS-- I JUST...
|
| 00:48:08 |
Schumer, Charles E. - U.S. Senator, [D] New York
GET TO 90% OR HIGHER. BUT TO PUT FORWARD SOMETHING I BELIEVE IT IS INCUMBENT UPON ME TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE GOT AN AGGRESS CHB PLAN, AN AGGRESSIVE...
|
| 00:48:23 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
BALANCED AND IS BASED UPON TANGIBLE STEPS WE'RE TAKING. >> RIGHT. >> MY, MY POINT IS IT WOULD BE, IT WOULD BE REALLY, I THINK IT WOULD BE IRRESPONSIBLE...
|
| 00:48:48 |
Schumer, Charles E. - U.S. Senator, [D] New York
DON'T THINK 1% IS TOO LOW? >> WELL, I WOULD
|
| 00:48:51 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
SAY THIS: WHAT I'VE SAID IS WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO IS FUND, FUND OUR BUBBLINGT PAST THE 16 LEGISLATIVE PROPOSALS, AND I KNOW WE'LL GET TO 1% OR BETTER,...
|
| 00:49:07 |
Schumer, Charles E. - U.S. Senator, [D] New York
WE CAN REASONABLY HIRE AND TRAIN. THIS MAN CAN TELL YOU ALL
|
| 00:49:11 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
THE THINGS HE'S DOING. SO WE'RE CLEARLY GOING TO PUSH FORWARD. AND WE'RE HAPPY, THE OTHER THING, WE ARE PLEASED TO WORK ON THIS JOINTLY. I MEAN, I...
|
| 00:49:54 |
Schumer, Charles E. - U.S. Senator, [D] New York
IN THE RECORD. >> ABSOLUTELY. >> THANK YOU. >> SECRETARY, I HAVE BEFORE ME I BELIEVE THESE ARE YOUR CHARTS? >> YES. >> ARE THEY YOUR CHARTS? >> YES,...
|
| 00:50:09 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
THAT'S THE POINT I WANTED TO MAKE JUST TO RESPOND. >> WELL
|
| 00:50:11 |
Bunning, Jim - U.S. Senator, [R] Kentucky
I AM GOING TO MAKE THE POINT NOW DON'T MIND. THANK YOU. >> ALL RIGHT. THANK
|
| 00:50:16 |
Bunning, Jim - U.S. Senator, [R] Kentucky
YOU. ACCORDING TO THE CHART THAT YOU HAVE SENT
|
| 00:50:21 |
Bunning, Jim - U.S. Senator, [R] Kentucky
|
| 00:50:24 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
|
| 00:50:25 |
Bunning, Jim - U.S. Senator, [R] Kentucky
FORTH, SINCE 01 AND I AM
|
| 00:50:27 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
SORRY SENATOR SCHUMSER LEAVING BECAUSE THIS -- OKAY. KOR ACCORDING TO THIS
|
| 00:50:31 |
Bunning, Jim - U.S. Senator, [R] Kentucky
CHART, THE EITC INCREASES SINCE
|
| 00:50:35 |
Bunning, Jim - U.S. Senator, [R] Kentucky
01 ARE MINIMAL, THE AUDITS, THOSE THAT MAKE OVER 100 OR NUD UNDER $100,000 ARE ACCELERATED AND FOR THOSE MAKING OVER $100,000 THEY ARE VERY ACCELERATED...
|
| 00:51:19 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
CLEARLY EMPHASIZES THE HIGH INCOME. YOU ARE RIGHT SENATOR BUT THAT'S ALSO A SENSE OF FAIRNESS THAT RESONATES IN OUR SYSTEM AND THAT REDLINE THAT'S...
|
| 00:51:53 |
Bunning, Jim - U.S. Senator, [R] Kentucky
DRAMATIC. AND CAN YOU GIVE ME THE NUMBERS ON THAT, THE ACTUAL NUMBERS OR IS THIS JUST A TRENDLINE? >> THIS -- THERE ARE TWO LINES HERE. THERE IS THE...
|
| 00:52:22 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
ALSO AS A PERCENTAGE OF GDP I GOT A QUESTION. >> THE TAXES HAVE GONE UP -- >> THAT'S COLLECTION OF. >> OKAY THAT'S WHAT I WANTED TO MAKE SURE. SO THE...
|
| 00:52:59 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
CHARTS ARE CONTRADICTING HIM.
|
| 00:53:01 |
Bunning, Jim - U.S. Senator, [R] Kentucky
IS, ARE YOUR
|
| 00:53:02 |
Bunning, Jim - U.S. Senator, [R] Kentucky
CHARTS ACCURATE? >> I WOULD SAY TO YOU, SENATOR, THAT, THAT WE HAVE EMPHASIZED IN MY TENURE HIGH INCOME INDIVIDUALS AND CORPORATIONS AND I THINK THOSE...
|
| 00:53:15 |
Bunning, Jim - U.S. Senator, [R] Kentucky
HIS, IN THE PRESIDENT'S FISCAL
|
| 00:53:17 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
|
| 00:53:19 |
Bunning, Jim - U.S. Senator, [R] Kentucky
BUDGET, REQUEST, PRESIDENT OUTLINED 16 DIFFERENT WAYS TO CLOSE THE TAX
|
| 00:53:23 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
GAP THAT WOULD RAISE ABOUT $30 BILLION. IN TEN YEARS. THAT SEEMS MINUTE TO UNCOLLECTED TAXES AND
|
| 00:53:34 |
Bunning, Jim - U.S. Senator, [R] Kentucky
WE HAVE BEEN ARGUING BACK AND FORTH HERE, AT LEAST THE QUESTIONS HAVE BEEN ARGUING YOUR ABILITY, SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY, TO DO MORE IN RESPECT...
|
| 00:54:24 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
YOU HAVE -- >> THAT'S THE MONEY YOU HAVE REQUESTED IN YOUR BUDGET. >> WE'VE LAID OUT -- >> OKAY. >> AND I THINK, THERE'S ONLY SO, IF YOU'RE GOING TO...
|
| 00:54:46 |
Bunning, Jim - U.S. Senator, [R] Kentucky
A GIVEN PERIOD
|
| 00:54:48 |
Bunning, Jim - U.S. Senator, [R] Kentucky
OF TIME IF YOU ARE GOING TO CONTROL THIS PROCESS,
|
| 00:54:50 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
SO THAT'S IMPORTANT. BUT CHAIRMAN BAUCUS MENTIONED OTHER THINGS. MORE ELECTRONIC
|
| 00:54:55 |
Bunning, Jim - U.S. Senator, [R] Kentucky
FILE,ING, MORE EDUCATION, TAXPAYER
|
| 00:54:59 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
SERVICE. YOU KNOW, THE, WE HAVE TO DO A BETTER JOB OF MODERNIZING OUR TECHNOLOGY AT THE IRS. SO THERE IS A FAIR NUMBER OF MORE RESEARCH SO THERE ARE...
|
| 00:55:42 |
Bunning, Jim - U.S. Senator, [R] Kentucky
START WITH. WE, WE KNOW
|
| 00:55:45 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
THAT, OR WE'RE TOLD THIS BUILDING
|
| 00:55:47 |
Stabenow, Debbie - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan
HAS 12,000, 748 COMPANIES IN IT. HAS ANYBODY CHECKED OUT THAT BUILDING? DOES ANYBODY -- DO YOU BELIEVE, I MEAN, MR. SECRETARY OR MR. -- THAT THERE...
|
| 00:56:25 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
GETTING BEHIND SOME OF THE INFORMATION IS VERY DIFFICULT. THIS IS NOT A SITUATION
|
| 00:56:29 |
Stabenow, Debbie - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan
OF DEALING WITH GREAT BRITAIN OR -- >> I APPRECIATE THAT BUT HAVE YOU TRIED THIS BUILDING NOT JUST IN GENERAL. HERE IS A BUILDING WE HAVE GOT A PICTURE...
|
| 00:56:54 |
Stabenow, Debbie - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan
THE FACE OF IT, JUST KNOWING THERE ARE 12 THOUSAND PLUS CORPORATIONS THAT SAY THEY DO BUSINESS
|
| 00:56:59 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
OUT OF A
|
| 00:57:00 |
Stabenow, Debbie - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan
BUILDING THAT'S FIVE
|
| 00:57:01 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
STORIES HIGH, OBVIOUSLY COMMON SENSE WOULD DICTATE THEY ARE NOT THERE. AND SO THAT ON THE FACE OF IT, WOULD NOT BE -- >> I THINK, I THINK IT WOULD BEGS...
|
| 00:57:15 |
Stabenow, Debbie - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan
OUR PEOPLE IF, IF ABOUT THAT BUT TYPICALLY THE WAY IT WORKS IS YOU LOOK AT THE RETURNS OF THE INDIVIDUAL WHAT YOU KNOW ABOUT THE INDIVIDUAL, DOES IT...
|
| 00:57:30 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
IT'S NOT A FACTOR BUT WE DON'T START TYPICALLY WITH SOMETHING LIKE THAT AS A MATTER OF FACT. >>> I REALLY SINCERELY MEAN THIS AS A QUESTION. I WOULD'VE...
|
| 00:58:00 |
Stabenow, Debbie - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan
HAVENS. >> SO CAYMAN ISLANDS ARE NOT COOPERATING THEN? >> I WOULD SAY TO YOU THAT, THAT IT IS A IT IS MORE DIFFICULT TO GET INFORMATION FROM CAYMAN...
|
| 00:58:22 |
Stabenow, Debbie - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan
|
| 00:58:25 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
PARTNERS. I WOULD VERY MUCH APPRECIATE AND I THINK ALL THE MEMBERS WOULD APPRECIATE THE DIFFICULTIES OF FINDING OUT INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT APPEARS...
|
| 00:59:02 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
WE, SENATOR. AND WE ACTIVE
|
| 00:59:04 |
Stabenow, Debbie - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan
PROGRAMS AND, AND WE TRY TO STAY OBTOP OF THIS, PARTICULARLY ON THE FISHING SCHEMES YOU MAY HAVE SCENE WE PUT OUT A NOTICE ON FRIDAY, SATURDAY, WHERE...
|
| 00:59:21 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
MEMBER. IT GOES BACK TO THE CONVERSATION WE HAD LAST WEEK WHERE A TAXPAYER CALLED IN AND CHECKED, TO CHECK WAS WAS GOING ON. THAT'S WHAT LED US TO UNRAVELING...
|
| 01:00:22 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
THINK MAKE MAKE US
|
| 01:00:25 |
Stabenow, Debbie - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan
AS A FEDERAL GOVERNMENT LOOK PRETTY FOOLX. >> AND THANK YOU. >> THANK YOU, SENATOR STABENOW. SENATOR LINCOLN. >> THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN, AND I AM SO...
|
| 01:00:48 |
Stabenow, Debbie - U.S. Senator, [D] Michigan
MOST AMERICANS CONTINUE TO BE ASTOUNDED
|
| 01:00:50 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
I THINK WITH THE AMOUNT OF TAXES ARE ARE
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| 01:00:52 |
Lincoln, Blanche Lambert - U.S. Senator, [D] Arkansas
OWD AND NOT PAID. WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT SMALL AMOUNT HERE, AND I THINK IT'S OVERWHELMING, PARTICULARLY TO MOST OF THE CONSTITUENCY I SERVE WHO TRY...
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| 01:03:24 |
Lincoln, Blanche Lambert - U.S. Senator, [D] Arkansas
POST THAT CAUGHT MY ATTENTION LAST WEEK. IT OUTLINES POLICY CHANGES MADE IN 2003 AND THOSE SHIPS AND AUDITING. WE'RE SEEING NOW, AND I GUESS I WOULD...
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| 01:04:59 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
DOWN. AND YOU CAN SEE, WE BROUGHT THEM BACK UP FROM 7,000 TO ALMOST 11,000. WE HAVE VERY LOW COVERAGE, 546% IN THE CATEGORY BETWEEN TEN AND 250 MILLION....
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| 01:06:21 |
Lincoln, Blanche Lambert - U.S. Senator, [D] Arkansas
BEING STOPPED. THERE IS AN ISSUE HERE WHERE SOMETIMES IT TAKES LONGER TO DO SOME OF THESE CORPORATE AUDITS,
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| 01:06:28 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
IF YOU WILL, THEN IT TAKES TO GET A DEATH PENALTY DECISION ALL THE WAY TO THE SYSTEM IN AMERICA. AND THAT IS NOT A GOOD THING. >> BUT ALL THE MORE REASON...
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| 01:06:57 |
Lincoln, Blanche Lambert - U.S. Senator, [D] Arkansas
WEIGAND. >> THANK YOU AND WELCOME TO ALL OF YOU. MY QUESTION TO START IS FOR YOU SECRETARY PAULSON. MY VIEW IS THAT REAL TAX REFORM IS A VERY
|
| 01:07:06 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
GOOD WAY TO CLOSE THE TAX GAP BECAUSE, WITH REAL REFORM, YOU SIMPLIFY THE SYSTEM AND IT MAKES IT TOUGHER FOR PEOPLE TO
|
| 01:07:17 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
CHEAT AND TO
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| 01:07:18 |
Wyden, Ronald "Ron" Lee - U.S. Senator, [D] Oregon
RIP THE SYSTEM OFF. WE HAVE WON HAD ONE WITNESS AFTER ANOTHER, BEFORE THE SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE AND IN FACT MR. EVERSON, I ASK HIM THIS QUESTION...
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| 01:08:00 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
ON THE TAX GAP, I THINK CLOSING THE TAX GAP IS SOMETHING THAT MAY BE UNREALISTIC. BUT MAKING PROGRESS ON IT, I THINK THE BEST PROGRESS WILL COME FROM...
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| 01:09:45 |
Wyden, Ronald "Ron" Lee - U.S. Senator, [D] Oregon
ADMINISTRATION? I AM VERY TROUBLED ABOUT THE FACT THAT IT HAS NOW BEEN SOMETHING LIKE 18 MONTHS SINCE THE PRESIDENT'S COMMISSION CAME IN WITH THEIR...
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| 01:09:58 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
SAID, I THINK THERE
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| 01:09:59 |
Wyden, Ronald "Ron" Lee - U.S. Senator, [D] Oregon
ARE SOME DARN GOOD THINGS IN IT AND I THINK IT IS TOO BAD THAT AT A TIME WHEN THE COUNTRY THINKS THE TAX CODE IS BROKEN AND WE HAVE HAD PEOPLE JUST...
|
| 01:11:37 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
NOW HAD SIGNIFICANT TAX RELIEF AND THAT THERE HAVE BEEN PRIORITIES, A VERY MAJOR PRIORITIES IN TERMS OF ENTITLEMENT REFORM, THAT WE HAVE DEEMED VERY...
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| 01:12:43 |
Wyden, Ronald "Ron" Lee - U.S. Senator, [D] Oregon
COMMISSION IS NOW BASICALLY BEING LABELED A SHAM, THERE REALLY WAS NOT ANY POINT IN HAVING IT, WE'RE NOT WILLING TO DO ANYTHING WITH IT BECAUSE WE THINK...
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| 01:13:32 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
ISLANDS? IS THERE A LEGITIMATE PURPOSE? >> THERE MAY BE NO LEGITIMATE PURPOSE IN THAT PARTICULAR INSTANCE. I THINK, THAT WAS MADE BY THE COMMISSIONER...
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| 01:13:55 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
COMMISSIONER SAID IS, DISTINGUISH BETWEEN TAX POLICY, POLICY AND LAW, ON ONE HAND AND COMPLIANCE ON THE OTHER. SPEAK AND THAT IS CORRECT. BUT I AM...
|
| 01:14:38 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
MR. CHAIRMAN THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST DIFFICULT AREAS. IT IS IN PART BECAUSE, WHEN YOU GET
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| 01:14:45 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
INTO THE MORE SOPHISTICATED PRODUCTS AND SCHEMES THAT HAVE DEVELOPED BY TAX
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| 01:14:52 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
INTERMEDIARIES, THE INVESTMENT BANKS, LAW FIRMS, ACCOUNTING FIRMS, IT CAN START AS SOMETHING LEGITIMATE
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| 01:14:58 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
AND MORE INTO SOMETHING THAT PUSHES EVER OUT OVER THE LINES. YOU RECALL THE TESTIMONY I GAVE LAST JUNE BEGAN TO TROUBLING AREAS LIKE THE FOREIGN TAX...
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| 01:16:32 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
ABOUT JUST THESE ISSUES. >> THERE'S A LOT OF ANGST IN CONGRESS ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON HERE. >> MR. CHAIRMAN GOODE I ADDED POINT WITH REGARD TO INTERNATIONAL...
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| 01:16:43 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
SIDE, WE HAVE MANY IMPORTANT PROJECTS, AND THE TRANSFER PRICING AREA, WE HAVE IMPORTANT PROJECTS THERE ABOUT SERVICES AND COST SHARING. ALSO
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| 01:16:55 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
RECENT PROJECTS ON FOREIGN TAX
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| 01:16:59 |
Solomon, Eric - Assistant Secretary
CREDIT. ALSO IN THE TREATY, AND TAX INFORMATION EXCHANGE AREA, THE INFORMATION EXCHANGE IT IS IMPORTANT. A TAX INFORMATION EXCHANGE WAS ENTERED INTO...
|
| 01:17:34 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
THAT HONEST TAXPAYERS ARE BEING SINGLED OUT AND WILL HAVE TO SHARE A GREATER BURDEN FOR THE SAKE OF TRYING TO FIND THOSE WERE NOT THE HONEST TAXPAYERS....
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| 01:18:24 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
UP. I CAN'T SPECULATE IN TERMS
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| 01:18:29 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
OF WHAT LEVEL WE CAN
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| 01:18:33 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
ACHIEVE WITHOUT OVERBURDENING. THE ONLY WAY I'D KNOW HOW TO DO IT IS WORK WITH YOU. WE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO DO ANYTHING IMPORTANT WITHOUT DOING IT JOINTLY....
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| 01:19:13 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
COMPLIANCE OVER TEN YEARS. YOU COME BACK TO US IT IN THREE MONTHS AND TELL US WHAT YOU CAN AND CANNOT DO AND ANY CHANGES IN LAW THAT MAY OR MAY NOT BE...
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| 01:19:52 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
1%. >> WITH GREAT RESPECT, I KNOW HOW MUCH YOU CARE ABOUT THIS. PINED CARE ABOUT IT ALSO. I WOULD LIKE TO BE ABLE TO SAY WITH SOME CREDIBILITY, WITHOUT...
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| 01:20:05 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
PEOPLE, THAT THERE IS A CLEAR PATH TO 90%. BUT TO SHOW A PLAN COMING TO HAVE A GOAL, WE WOULD HAVE TO SAY
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| 01:20:13 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
WHAT STEPS ARE WE GOING TO TAKE, AND I WOULD SAY TO YOU THAT I DON'T SEE THE STEPS THAT WE CAN TAKE. I CAN'T SEE A. >> YOU SAY BE CAN'T GET THERE....
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| 01:20:45 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
KEEP WORKING, WE WILL KEEP WORKING WITH
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| 01:20:48 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
YOU. AND AGAIN, I THINK THE WAY TO DO THIS, AND I HAVE WORKED ON A LOT OF BUSINESS PLANS, I WORK WITH MULTIPLE CLIENTS, I HAVE DONE IT AT GOLDMAN...
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| 01:21:37 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
EITHER. >>
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| 01:21:39 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
LIKE A LOT OF THINGS IN LIFE, IF YOU ARE GOING TO DO SOMETHING, YOU MIGHT AS WELL DO IT NOW. LET'S GET THE JOB DONE. >> I WOULD LEAVE IT THIS WAY....
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| 01:21:52 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
THING, THE TAX GAP IS A SERIOUS ISSUE. WE SHOULD BE VERY VIGILANT
|
| 01:21:58 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
ABOUT ADDRESSING IT. I'M
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| 01:22:00 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
NOT GOING TO REST UNTIL WE KEEP MAKING PROGRESS. I THINK THIS ADMINISTRATION IS DOING AS MUCH AS ANYONE HAS DONE ABOUT IT. I WANT TO
|
| 01:22:09 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
DO MORE AND WANT TO WORK ON IT. WHAT I DON'T WANT TO DO IS PUT FORWARD SOMETHING THAT WILL MISLEAD THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO WORK...
|
| 01:22:53 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
IN THREE MONTHS FROM NOW, IF WE
|
| 01:22:58 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
HAD THE 16 LEGISLATIVE PROPOSALS ENACTED. >> IT WOULD
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| 01:23:03 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
AMOUNT TO ABOUT $2.3 BILLION OVER TEN
|
| 01:23:08 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
YEARS. ADD THEM
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| 01:23:09 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
ALL UP, AND IT IS THE 1% IN YOUR PLAN CARED THAT IS NOT A PLAN. >> WHERE I COME FROM $30 BILLION IS. >> YOU COME UP WITH A
|
| 01:23:24 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
PLAN, EVERY YEAR AND ANOTHER $30 BILLION, THAT WILL GET TO THAT 90%. SENATOR SOLIS ARE CARRIED. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH CHAIRMAN BAUCUS. I DO BELIEVE...
|
| 01:23:39 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
A QUESTION FOR YOU SECRETARY PAULSON. >> CENTER I AM GOING TO HAVE TO LEAVE
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| 01:23:45 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
HERE, BUT YOU HAVE NOT HEARD THE LAST FROM ME ON THIS. >> WE ARE GOING TO KEEP WORKING ON IT. >> WE ARE GOING TO SOLVE
|
| 01:23:55 |
Salazar, Ken - U.S. Senator, [D] Colorado
IT. >> WE HAVE TO DETERMINE WHAT IT IS RARE COIN TO SOLVE, WHAT IS THE REALISTIC OBJECTIVE. WE'RE GOING TO BE WORKING
|
| 01:24:04 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
VERY HARD AND WE OWE IT TO THE AMERICAN TAXPAYER AND WE OWE IT TO YOU SO WE WILL KEEP WORKING HARD ON
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| 01:24:11 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
THIS. BUT I VALUE MY CREDIBILITY TOO MUCH TO PROMISE SOMETHING WHERE I DON'T SEE A CLEAR PATH
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| 01:24:16 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
TO GET THERE. >> WE HAVE HIGH
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| 01:24:19 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
REGARD FOR YOUR TALENTS MR. SECRETARY. >> MR. CHAIRMAN, I WANT TO BE SURE YOU SHOW UP ON THE SECOND. >> SEE YOU IN FREMONT'S MR. SECRETARY. >> THANK...
|
| 01:24:40 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
AT AND IT IS THEN SET BY -- IT
|
| 01:24:45 |
Salazar, Ken - U.S. Senator, [D] Colorado
WOULD PRODUCE $19.5 BILLION AS WE TRY TO CLOSE THE TAX
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| 01:24:49 |
Baucus, Max - U.S. Senator, [D] Montana
GAP. I HEAR YOU IN THE DIALOGUE WITH THE CHAIRMAN SAYING, THIS IS WHAT
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| 01:24:53 |
Salazar, Ken - U.S. Senator, [D] Colorado
WE THINK WE CAN DO ANY REALISTIC WAYS WE'RE NOT JUST AIMING AT SOMETHING THAT IS PIE IN THE SKY. >> THAT WAS ON THE LEGISLATIVE SENATOR, YOU MISSED...
|
| 01:25:22 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
SERVICE TO WE HAVE A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. WE'RE NOT DOING IT ALL TO THE LEGISLATIVE PROPOSALS BUT WE BELIEVE IF YOU ARE GOING TO GET SOME OF THE UNREPORTED...
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| 01:26:07 |
Salazar, Ken - U.S. Senator, [D] Colorado
WITH THE 10%, 1% SOLUTION, WHATEVER. IT IS NOT DEALING WITH BILL WHOLE TAX GAP. I HEAR YOU SAYING THAT WHAT YOU WANT TO DO AND WHAT YOU HAVE DONE IS...
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| 01:26:20 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
YOU CONSIDER TO BE A PLAN THAT
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| 01:26:22 |
Salazar, Ken - U.S. Senator, [D] Colorado
IS COMPREHENSIVE AND REALISTIC ON HOW YOU GET THERE AND THE DIALOGUE WITH THE CHAIRMAN IS YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO GET THERE, WHERE WE WANT YOU TO GO. MY...
|
| 01:27:49 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
FOR THE TAX YEAR 2001. WE GOT THAT IN 2004. WHAT YOU SEE SENATOR IS THAT ABOUT 80% OF THE TAX GAP AS A RESULT OF UNDER REPORTING. SOME PEOPLE DO NOT...
|
| 01:28:45 |
Salazar, Ken - U.S. Senator, [D] Colorado
OF OWNERS OF RESTAURANTS PROBABLY DON'T HAVE THAT SAME KIND OF ACCOUNTABILITY. IF YOU TAKE THAT ONE SECTOR, JUST THE RESTAURANT SECTOR, WHAT IS IT YOU...
|
| 01:29:20 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
YEAR FROM THE EIGHT OR TEN CREDIT CARD PROCESSORS, THE IRS WOULD GET A NUMBER THAT WOULD SAY, HERE ARE THE TOTAL RECEIPTS THAT THAT BUSINESS GENERATED...
|
| 01:30:49 |
Salazar, Ken - U.S. Senator, [D] Colorado
YOU. >> THANKS SENATOR
|
| 01:30:53 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
SALAZAR. COMMISSIONER, GOING BACK TO THAT LAST QUESTION I
|
| 01:30:58 |
Salazar, Ken - U.S. Senator, [D] Colorado
HAD, WHERE THE AGENTS AND THE POST ARTICLE WERE QUOTED AS SAYING THEY WERE WALKING AWAY FROM ON ASSESSED TAXES IN THOSE AUDITS BECAUSE THAT POLICY...
|
| 01:31:10 |
Salazar, Ken - U.S. Senator, [D] Colorado
YOU TAKE THAT ONE STEP FURTHER. YOUR ANSWER WAS THAT
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| 01:31:13 |
Lincoln, Blanche Lambert - U.S. Senator, [D] Arkansas
YOU ARE GIVING THEM THE ABILITY TO APPEAL TO THEIR SUPERIORS. I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW HOW MANY AND HOW OFTEN ARE THOSE SUPERIORS ALLOWING THEM TO CONTINUE?...
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| 01:31:57 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
TO KNOW. MR. COMMISSIONER, THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TAX GAP AND WHAT YOU ALL REFER TO THE IRS -- I THINK THE REAL USE THE WORDS ACCOUNTS RECEIVABLE....
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| 01:32:16 |
Lincoln, Blanche Lambert - U.S. Senator, [D] Arkansas
RECEIVABLE. >> R ATTENDS RECEIVABLE CONSIDERED AS PART OF THE TAX GAP? >> NO MAN CARRIED THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AN INCOME STATEMENT AND A BALANCE...
|
| 01:32:37 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
A BUSINESS, YOU WOULD
|
| 01:32:38 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
WRITE OFF A LOT OF THAT AMOUNT. WE CANNOT WRITE IT OFF SO WE CARRY
|
| 01:32:43 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
THAT UNTIL THE TEN YEARS HAVE ELAPSED. >> SO, OF IT IS CONSIDERED COLLECTIBLE? >> AT HOUR COLLECTIBLE INVENTORY THAT WE LOOK AT IS AROUND 70 OR 80 BILLION,...
|
| 01:33:08 |
Lincoln, Blanche Lambert - U.S. Senator, [D] Arkansas
THE LONGER THE DEBT STAYS OUT THERE, THE HARDER IT IS TO GET. >>
|
| 01:33:12 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
SO YOUR IDEA OF THE DOLLAR AMOUNTS OF RECEIVABLES NOT CURRENTLY TO BE COLLECTED IS $210 BILLION? THAT IS JUST OVER A TEN
|
| 01:33:25 |
Lincoln, Blanche Lambert - U.S. Senator, [D] Arkansas
YEAR. >> THAT IS
|
| 01:33:26 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
THE AMOUNT ON THE BALANCE SHEET TODAY. >> IT HAS A STATUTE OF LIMITATION OF TEN YEARS CORRECT? >> IT STAYS ON THE
|
| 01:33:34 |
Lincoln, Blanche Lambert - U.S. Senator, [D] Arkansas
BALANCE SHEET, THAT IS CORRECT. >> HOW MUCH REVENUE OWED AN ACCOUNT RECEIVABLE IS OWED THROUGH THE STATUTE OF LIMITATION? >> I DON'T THINK THE TEN
|
| 01:33:46 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
YEARS REALLY PROMPT ANY ADDITIONAL LOSS. >> IT GOES OFF THE BOOKS. >>
|
| 01:33:51 |
Lincoln, Blanche Lambert - U.S. Senator, [D] Arkansas
BUT THE OLDER IT GETS, THE HARDER IT WILL BE
|
| 01:33:54 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
TO GET. >> IS STILL THERE. >> THE WAY TO GET AFTER THIS IS TO
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| 01:33:59 |
Lincoln, Blanche Lambert - U.S. Senator, [D] Arkansas
GET AFTER IT PROMPTLY AND THAT IS WHY PART OF OUR ENFORCEMENT IS TO DO MORE IN THE COLLECTIONS AREA. ALSO
|
| 01:34:06 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
GETS INTO THE CONTROVERSIAL AREA THAT PRIVATE
|
| 01:34:10 |
Lincoln, Blanche Lambert - U.S. Senator, [D] Arkansas
DEBT COLLECTORS,
|
| 01:34:12 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
WE USED THAT TOOL TO GET AFTER THE MONEY SOONER. >> SO YOU ARE SAYING YOU
|
| 01:34:17 |
Lincoln, Blanche Lambert - U.S. Senator, [D] Arkansas
ARE ONLY
|
| 01:34:18 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
COLLECTING THOSE RECEIVABLES ABOUT 70 BILLION OUT OF THE 280? >> THAT IS NOT WHAT I SUGGESTED. WHAT I AM SAYING IS, WHEN WE LOOK AT THAT AMOUNT NOW...
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| 01:34:37 |
Lincoln, Blanche Lambert - U.S. Senator, [D] Arkansas
GET ONLY A ROUND A QUARTER OF THAT CARRIED A LOT OF IT IS ALREADY OWED OR FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS YOU ARE NOT GOING
|
| 01:34:45 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
TO GET TO IT. SNEAD MAYBE YOU COULD EXPAND ON THAT IN TERMS OF WHITE E IS SO DIFFICULT TO GET. >> ABSOLUTELY. I HAVE LEARNED THAT COLLECTIONS IS A...
|
| 01:35:15 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
BUSINESSES AND WANTS TO BE COGNIZANT OF THAT. THERE'S MUCH THERE TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT I THINK.
|
| 01:35:24 |
Lincoln, Blanche Lambert - U.S. Senator, [D] Arkansas
THE OTHER WAS AN ISSUE THAT SENATOR GRASSLEY BROUGHT UP, JUST REPEATING TODAY FOR WHAT IT IS WORTH, I DON'T BELIEVE WE'RE GOING TO SEE THE SIGNIFICANT...
|
| 01:37:11 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
TO MEDICARE AND I AM GLAD I DID. IT WAS NOT PERFECT BUT IT WAS A GOOD THING CARRIED A HUGE PART OF WHAT I THINK MADE IT SUCCESSFUL FOR US IN ARKANSAS...
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| 01:37:28 |
Lincoln, Blanche Lambert - U.S. Senator, [D] Arkansas
ENGAGE WITH THE PROGRAM AND IF WE DON'T DO THAT HERE, IT IS GOING TO BEAT -- WE NEVER GOING TO REACH THE GOALS THAT SENATOR BAUCUS HAS SET FOR US AND...
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| 01:38:03 |
Grassley, Charles "Chuck" E. - U.S. Senator, [R] Iowa
TO GET $8 BILLION A YEAR. YOU PROVIDED A GENERAL ANSWER AND I WOULD ONLY ASK YOU NOW IF YOU WOULD FOLLOW UP WITH AN ANSWER MORE IN DETAIL IN WRITING....
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| 01:39:17 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
THIS. I BELIEVE YOU ARE CORRECT THAT, IF YOU LOOK AT THE AGENCY RELATIVE TO OTHER DEPARTMENTS AND AGENCIES WITHIN GOVERNMENT, THE
|
| 01:39:25 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
AMOUNT OF TIME DEVOTED TO HUMAN ACTIVITIES IS PROPORTIONATELY HIGHER AT THE IRS THAN ELSEWHERE. WE WOULD LIKE TO GET EVERY INCREMENTAL PRODUCTIVE RESOURCES...
|
| 01:40:00 |
Grassley, Charles "Chuck" E. - U.S. Senator, [R] Iowa
YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO STUDY THE HEDGE FUND INDUSTRY IN RELATION TO THE PRESIDENT'S WORKING GROUP ON FINANCIAL MARKETS. I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW IF...
|
| 01:40:10 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
ANY TAX POLICY ISSUES RELATED TO THE FINANCIAL MARKETS AND
|
| 01:40:13 |
Grassley, Charles "Chuck" E. - U.S. Senator, [R] Iowa
SPECIFICALLY HEDGE FUNDS OR ALTERNATIVE INVESTMENTS IN THAT CONTEXT. AND IF NOT, I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHY THAT WAS NOT PART OF THE ISSUE. >> YES, TWO...
|
| 01:40:45 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
INDIVIDUALS, CORPORATES, PARTNERSHIPS AND SO ON. ERIC YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO ADD? >> ARE WE ARE LOOKING AT ISSUES REGARDING HEDGE FUNDS. >> SO YOU...
|
| 01:41:11 |
Grassley, Charles "Chuck" E. - U.S. Senator, [R] Iowa
SECRETARY, CHAIRMAN BAUCUS O IN ON A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE TAX
|
| 01:41:15 |
Grassley, Charles "Chuck" E. - U.S. Senator, [R] Iowa
GAP AND INTERNATIONAL ISSUES. I WOULD LIKE TO FOLLOW UP. MR.
|
| 01:41:25 |
Solomon, Eric - Assistant Secretary
SOLOMON NOTED IN HIS WRITTEN TESTIMONY THAT THE TREASURY DEPARTMENT AND IRS HAVE DONE CONSIDERABLE WORK
|
| 01:41:31 |
Grassley, Charles "Chuck" E. - U.S. Senator, [R] Iowa
TO GO AFTER THE INTERNATIONAL TAX GAP PARTICULARLY IN AREAS OF TRANSFER -- PLEASE DESCRIBE TREASURIES IN THESE AREAS AND THE WORLD WORLD ARE TAX INFORMATION...
|
| 01:42:09 |
Solomon, Eric - Assistant Secretary
EXCHANGE IS AN IMPORTANT ISSUE. WE HAVE A VERY VIGOROUS TREATY PROGRAM TRYING TO ENTER INTO NEW TREATIES. ALSO TAX AFFIRMATION EXCHANGE AGREEMENTS ARE...
|
| 01:42:56 |
Grassley, Charles "Chuck" E. - U.S. Senator, [R] Iowa
OF FIGHTING THE TAX GAP. ACTUALLY, IT HAS NOT GOTTEN THE SUPPORT FROM MEMBERS OF CONGRESS THE WAY IT SHOULD. IT SEEMS LIKE FIGHTING THE TAX GAP IS...
|
| 01:43:55 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
NOT DOING IT, A LOT OF THAT WOULD NOT BE DONE BECAUSE, AS HE IS HIRING NEW IRS AGENTS AND TRAINING THEM, THERE IS A HIGHER VALUED USE FRET THAT. THESE...
|
| 01:44:44 |
Grassley, Charles "Chuck" E. - U.S. Senator, [R] Iowa
IT COULD BE EXPANDED. MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF MONEY COLLECTED BY
|
| 01:44:50 |
Schumer, Charles E. - U.S. Senator, [D] New York
DEBT COLLECTORS HAS TO BE USED TO BOOST IRIS ENFORCEMENT. THAT SOUNDS GOOD TO ME. WHY DON'T WE SET UP AN ENFORCEMENT TRUST FUND WITHIN THE IRS FOR...
|
| 01:45:37 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
BUDGET. >> THAT IS NOT CORRECT. WE DID NOT GET EVERYTHING WE WANTED IN ENFORCEMENT. >>
|
| 01:45:46 |
Schumer, Charles E. - U.S. Senator, [D] New York
OKAY, BUT --. >>
|
| 01:45:48 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
I WANT TO SAY THIS, SINCE I HAVE CONTRADICTED MY BOSS. THE SECRETARY FOUGHT FOR AND GOT THE BIGGEST BUDGET INCREASE WE'VE HAD IN YEARS. WHAT WE HAVE...
|
| 01:46:00 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
THE CONGRESS THAT DOES ADDRESS ENFORCEMENT. >> AND I AM ASSUMING, NO ONE ON THIS COMMITTEE
|
| 01:46:06 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
HAS INDICATED THAT THAT WOULD NOT BE APPROVED AND I WOULD FIND IT
|
| 01:46:11 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
IRONIC BEYOND BELIEF IF AFTER THIS HEARING ON THE TAX GAP IT WERE NOT IN THE APPROVED. I'M ASSUMING THE BIGGEST, MAY BE DANGEROUS ASSUMPTION, THE BIGGEST...
|
| 01:46:25 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
A. >> THIS TRUST FUND WOULD BE AN INCENTIVE, WE COULD COUNT ON IT FROM YEAR TO YEAR. WHEN I ASKED THE COMMISSION THE QUESTION, I SAW THE SMILE ON HIS...
|
| 01:46:47 |
Schumer, Charles E. - U.S. Senator, [D] New York
THE SCORING QUESTION BECAUSE WE CAN DEMONSTRATE FOR YOU IF YOU INVEST IN THE IRS AND SERVICES, ENFORCEMENT, EVERYTHING ELSE DO YOU GET A VERY GOOD...
|
| 01:47:03 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
LEGISLATIVE PROPOSAL BUT YOU DON'T SCARE SCORE. >> THIS WOULD HELP THAT I THINK. A WE GIVE YOU MONEY AUTOMATICALLY. >> CAN I COME BACK TO YOUR EARLIER...
|
| 01:47:27 |
Schumer, Charles E. - U.S. Senator, [D] New York
HUDSON VALLEY WHO HAD ALL THE FLOODING AND I AM SURE THE PEOPLE IN NEW JERSEY AND OTHER STATES AS
|
| 01:47:33 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
WELL. GREAT. NEXT QUESTION RELATES TO SOMETHING THAT IS BEEN A PET PEEVE OF MINE. IT RELATES TO THE CORPORATE SIDE OF THINGS AND IT IS BOOK VERSUS TAX...
|
| 01:47:45 |
Schumer, Charles E. - U.S. Senator, [D] New York
AM LAST YEAR I THINK I COULD TAKE A LITTLE MORE TIME, SO I WILL ELABORATE A BIT. OBVIOUSLY, ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT IS INTRIGUING TO ME IS THE DIFFERENCE...
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| 01:49:34 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
CHANGING ALL THE TIME. AND SO, THE MANY AND MOST COMPANIES, VERY HONEST, HONORABLE COMPANIES WERE NOT TRYING TO INFLATE ANYTHING BOOK AND COME DRIVEN...
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| 01:50:40 |
Schumer, Charles E. - U.S. Senator, [D] New York
IS WRONG TO ASK TAXPAYERS TO PAY AN ADDITIONAL FEE FOR THE PRIVILEGE OF FILING THEIR RETURNS ELECTRONICALLY WHEN IT SAVES THE GOVERNMENT MONEY AND WE'RE...
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| 01:52:31 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
THE GOVERNMENT. WHAT YOU ARE GETTING AT, YOU HAVE USED TURBO TAX AT HOME, THEN YOU MIGHT BE GETTING A FEE DEPENDING ON THE PRODUCT. SO WHAT YOU ARE...
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| 01:53:25 |
Schumer, Charles E. - U.S. Senator, [D] New York
INTEREST AND THE INDUSTRY'S INTERESTS ARE DIFFERENT
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| 01:53:28 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
HERE? >> I'M NOT SURE IN THAT INSTANCE THEY ARE. IF THAT FT. REFLECT THE TRUE INCREMENTAL COST, BUT I DON'T KNOW. >> I WOULD ASK YOU TO GIVE THAT A...
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| 01:53:44 |
Schumer, Charles E. - U.S. Senator, [D] New York
ONE MORE, I WILL BE QUICK. WITHHOLDING THE, WHAT ABOUT WITHHOLDING ON CAPITAL
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| 01:53:51 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
GAINS AND DIVIDENDS OF LARGER AMOUNTS, NOT OF SOMEBODY WHO PAYS A SMALL AMOUNT, BUT IT ABOVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF DIVIDEND,
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| 01:53:59 |
Schumer, Charles E. - U.S. Senator, [D] New York
WE GET 99% COMPLIANCE WHEN THERE IS WITHHOLDING OF WAGES, WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO INCREASE THE COMPLAINTS. I AM NOT SURE IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO, I...
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| 01:54:30 |
Paulson, Henry M. Jr. - Secretary
ROSTENKOWSKI, CONGRESS TOOK A STEP TO DO THAT AND THERE WAS SUCH AN OUTPOURING OF SENTIMENT THAT IT WAS QUICKLY WITHDRAWN. WE HAVE LOOKED AT THAT AND...
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| 01:55:13 |
Schumer, Charles E. - U.S. Senator, [D] New York
MUCH EXTRA BENEFIT CAN YOU GET FROM THAT? THE COMPLIANCE RATE WITH RESPECT TO 1099S IS IN THE 95% AREA. YOU HAVE TO TAKE THAT INTO ACCOUNT WHETHER THIS...
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| 01:55:27 |
Solomon, Eric - Assistant Secretary
FOR YOU. >> EVERYTHING THAT IS JUST BEEN SAID, WE HAVE A PROPOSAL TO GET BASES PART REPORTING FOR STOCK TRANSACTIONS. THAT SO FAR HAS NOT BEEN KICKED...
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| 01:55:50 |
Everson, Mark W. - Commissioner
STRONGLY. >> THANK YOU ALL FOR STAYING AN EXTRA SEVEN MINUTES AND FOR THE REST OF THE TIME AS WELL. >> THANK YOU. THE HEARING IS ADJOURNED. [INAUDIBLE
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| 01:56:12 |
Schumer, Charles E. - U.S. Senator, [D] New York
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| 01:56:17 |
Schumer, Charles E. - U.S. Senator, [D] New York
CONVERSATIONS] [INAUDIBLE CONVERSATIONS] [INAUDIBLE CONVERSATIONS] [INAUDIBLE CONVERSATIONS] >>
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NOTE: The transcript for this program was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.