| 00:00:34 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
YOU CALL YOUR BOOK " VIRTUALLY NORMAL"? >> IT' S A GOOD QUESTION. I... THE SHORT ANSWER IS THAT I, I SORT OF DECIDED TO GET ALL THE IRONY OUT OF THE...
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| 00:00:54 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AND SECONDLY BECAUSE IT KIND OF CAPTURES THE AMBIGUITY OF THE SUBJECT.
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| 00:00:58 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
I MEAN, I THINK... I WANTED SOMETHING THAT WOULD DRAW IN PEOPLE FROM EVERY POSITION. I MEAN, I THINK HALF THE READERSHIP WILL OBJECT TO THE WORD " VIRTUALLY"...
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| 00:02:09 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IT, IT MEANS A LOT TO ME. I MEAN, IT' S NOT JUST A BOOK TO ME.
|
| 00:02:14 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IT' S NOT A BOOK
|
| 00:02:15 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
I WANTED TO WRITE; IT' S A BOOK I SORT OF HAD TO WRITE. AND SO HOW IT WAS PRESENTED
|
| 00:02:19 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
MATTERED, EVEN DOWN TO THE DESIGN OF IT. I WANTED IT TO BE THIS, I WANTED THIS TO BE A BOOK THAT LOOKED SERIOUS, THAT DID NOT HAVE... A LOT OF GAY BOOKS...
|
| 00:03:53 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TIME JOB, AND I' M ACTUALLY GOING TO HAVE TO TAKE A COUPLE OF
|
| 00:03:56 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WEEKS, THREE WEEKS OR SO OFF TO TAKE THE BOOK AROUND THE COUNTRY. >> WHAT DID THE OWNER OF THE " NEW REPUBLIC," MARTY PERETZ, SAY WHEN YOU SAID YOU...
|
| 00:04:20 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CENTURY, WHETHER IT BE WALTER LIPPMAN OR HERBERT CROWLEY, HAVE ALSO GONE OUT THERE AND WRITTEN BOOKS, ENGAGED A PUBLIC DEBATE.
|
| 00:04:30 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AND I' M A WRITER AS WELL AS AN EDITOR, AND FOR FOUR AND A HALF YEARS, I HAVE ESSENTIALLY EDITED, HELPED REWRITE, COAXED AUTHORS, COAXED... AND AFTER...
|
| 00:05:32 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
KNOW, " THERE ALL SORTS OF WEIRDNESSES ABOUT
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| 00:05:34 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
YOU BEING EDITOR,
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| 00:05:36 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BECOMING EDITOR. YOU WEREN' T BORN IN AMERICA." WHICH IS SOME WAYS, YOU...
|
| 00:05:43 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
I WAS 27. "
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| 00:05:44 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
|
| 00:05:47 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AND, OF COURSE, YOU' RE GAY." HE KNEW THAT ALREADY. AND HE SAID, AND I AGREED WITH HIM, HE SAID, " BUT THERE' S NO NEED TO MAKE A BIG FUSS ABOUT THAT,"...
|
| 00:06:31 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ANNOUNCED THE THING, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE SAID WAS, " HE' S DONE THIS, THIS AND
|
| 00:06:35 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THIS AND THIS, AND THIS IS WHY HE' S GOING TO BE EDITOR." AND THE FIRST THING THE MEDIA SAID WAS, " THIS GUY' S GAY, OPENLY GAY." I REMEMBER THE FIRST...
|
| 00:10:07 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
2% AND 5%, I SAY IT REALLY SHOULDN' T MATTER TOO MUCH.
|
| 00:10:10 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THIS IS NOT A NUMBERS GAME. AND THERE' S SOMETHING KIND OF
|
| 00:10:13 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
PATHETIC, I THINK, ABOUT PEOPLE SAYING, " WELL, WE'
|
| 00:10:16 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
RE REALLY 10%, WE' RE 20%," AND THAT' S SUPPOSED TO BE AN ARGUMENT.
|
| 00:10:19 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IT' S NOT. MY OWN EXPERIENCE, MY JUDGMENT, I MEAN, THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE I' VE MET...
|
| 00:10:25 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
I MEAN, YOU' VE BEEN GAY FOR A WHILE AS AN ADULT, YOU MEET A LOT OF PEOPLE, YOU SEE A LOT OF PEOPLE, YOU, YOU GET A SENSE OF HOW MANY PEOPLE THERE ARE,...
|
| 00:11:40 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
YOU' LL, YOU CAN GET THROWN OUT BY THE U. S. GOVERNMENT. YOU CAN GET YOUR TELEPHONE TAPPED. YOU
|
| 00:11:48 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CAN GET YOUR MAIL RIFLED THROUGH. YOU CAN BE ARRESTED, STRICTLY SPEAKING, FOR SEXUAL RELATIONS IN MANY STATES IN THIS COUNTRY, FOR DOING OR FOR JUST HAVING...
|
| 00:18:28 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ESSENTIALLY ARGUED THAT THE
|
| 00:18:32 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DENIAL OF A MARRIAGE LICENSE TO A SAME- SEX COUPLE IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL UNDER THE HAWAII CONSTITUTION. THIS HAS BEEN TEMPORARILY UPHELD, PENDING THE PROCESS,...
|
| 00:22:26 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IT WOULD, IT
|
| 00:22:27 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WOULD, IT WOULD... IT' S VERY COMPLICATED, BUT THAT' S MY GOAL. AND... I MEAN, SINCE
|
| 00:22:32 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
I CAME HERE, I SORT
|
| 00:22:34 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OF FELL IN LOVE WITH THIS COUNTRY, AND, AND PART OF THE REASON WHY I DID WAS BECAUSE OF THIS NOTION OF THE, UNIQUE NOTION, OF THE FUNDAMENTAL EQUAL DIGNITY...
|
| 00:25:11 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE JOKE IS THAT THIS COUPLE IS
|
| 00:25:14 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
GOING TO GO TO EASTBOURNE, WHICH IS A RESORT TOWN ON THE SOUTH COAST OF ENGLAND, FOR A " DIRTY WEEKEND," AS THE ENGLISH CALL IT, BUT IT' S ALL BOOKED...
|
| 00:26:00 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
MY SISTER WORKS FOR A... SHE' S ACTUALLY HAVING A
|
| 00:26:02 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BABY RIGHT NOW. >> WHAT' S A FAG IN BRITAIN? I MEAN, YOU REFER... >> IT' S A CIGARETTE. >> BUT YOU REFER IT... BUT YOU REFER TO, YOU KNOW, YOUNG GAY......
|
| 00:26:12 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
YEAH, I THINK THAT' S THE
|
| 00:26:13 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ORIGIN OF THE WORD, ACTUALLY. I MEAN, I' M NO... I' M NOT A... I' M NOT BILL SAFIRE, SO I DON' T KNOW PRECISELY, BUT I THINK IN BRITISH PRIVATE SCHOOLS,...
|
| 00:26:25 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SCHOOLS-- WHICH I DIDN' T GO TO, BY THE WAY, THANK
|
| 00:26:27 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
HEAVEN--
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| 00:26:29 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THERE WAS, YOU KNOW, A TRADITION OF... OF... IN A LOT
|
| 00:26:32 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OF ALL- MALE INSTITUTIONS, THERE' S A TRADITION OF OPPORTUNISTIC... WHAT I WOULD CALL OPPORTUNISTIC HOMOSEXUALITY, WHERE PEOPLE WHO AREN' T ACTUALLY...
|
| 00:27:32 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
I DON' T... I MEAN, I FIND IT SORT OF AN OFFENSIVE
|
| 00:27:36 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TERM IN SOME WAYS. IT' S ALMOST ALWAYS USED OFFENSIVELY, AND I DON' T THINK APPROPRIATING IT IS GOING TO SOLVE THAT PROBLEM. >> BECAUSE SOME GAYS DO USE...
|
| 00:28:05 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
|
| 00:28:07 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IT IRONICALLY OR JOKINGLY.
|
| 00:28:10 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BUT THEN THERE'
|
| 00:28:13 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
S ANOTHER VANGUARD OF PEOPLE I TALK ABOUT IN THE BOOK, PEOPLE I CALL LIBERATIONISTS, WHOSE REAL AGENDA IS, I THINK, TO SUBVERT THE ENTIRE SOCIETY, BELIEVING...
|
| 00:32:03 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
YOU. >>
|
| 00:32:05 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
JUST KNOWN?
|
| 00:32:09 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
I MEAN, MET, KNOWN? >>
|
| 00:32:11 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
KNOWN, ARE AWARE OF... >>
|
| 00:32:15 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OH, IN TERMS OF KNOWN OR AWARE OF, YOU KNOW, DOZENS AND
|
| 00:32:20 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DOZENS.
|
| 00:32:23 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
|
| 00:32:26 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
I CAN CLOSE MY EYES NOW AND THINK OF THE FACES OF PEOPLE IN
|
| 00:32:32 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THIS CITY, WASHINGTON, WHO ARE MY AGE WHO HAVE DIED IN THE LAST
|
| 00:32:36 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SIX MONTHS. AND IT' S... YOU KNOW, IT' S LIKE TWO HANDS' WORTH OF PEOPLE, I MEAN, WHO I WAS USED TO SPEAKING WITH. AND... AND... AND I CAN CLOSE MY EYES...
|
| 00:33:47 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AND I GUESS WHAT I WANT TO ASK-- NOT NECESSARILY TO FIND OUT SO MUCH-- IS HAVE YOUR FRIENDS WHO ARE GAY CHANGED THEIR SEXUAL HABITS OR PROTECTED THEMSELVES...
|
| 00:34:16 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OF THIS EPIDEMIC. THE RATES OF TRANSMISSION
|
| 00:34:19 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
COLLAPSED. IF THEY HAD CONTINUED AT THE RATE THEY
|
| 00:34:24 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WERE BEFORE PEOPLE KNEW WHAT WAS GOING ON, I MEAN, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN... THERE' D BE NO ONE LEFT AT ALL. BUT IT WASN' T SOON ENOUGH FOR THERE NOT TO BE...
|
| 00:35:12 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WERE DIFFERENT? >> WELL, AS I SAY IN THE BOOK... I MEAN, THE BOOK STARTS WITH THE QUESTION " WHAT IS A HOMOSEXUAL?" AND PART OF THE WAY I ANSWER THAT...
|
| 00:35:20 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
LET' S START THERE." I REMEMBER AT THE AGE OF FIVE OR SIX TURNING
|
| 00:35:27 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AROUND IN THE BACK OF A CAR AND SEEING ACTUALLY A SECOND COUSIN OF MINE, AND JUST
|
| 00:35:34 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
FEELING THIS SORT OF ENTRANCEMENT, THE WAY THAT KIDS DO-- CRUSHES-- BUT IT WAS FOR THE BOY. I MEAN, I DON' T THINK A FIVE- YEAR- OLD KNOWS HE OR SHE'...
|
| 00:36:54 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IT THAT I' D HAVE TO KISS OR,
|
| 00:36:55 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
LIKE, DO SOMETHING ELSE THAT I... I COULDN' T... I MEAN,
|
| 00:36:59 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IF YOU WERE TOLD TO GO ON A DATE WITH A GUY WHEN YOU WERE 17 AND YOU WERE ABLE TO GO
|
| 00:37:03 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THROUGH THE MOTIONS AND HAVE THE DINNER AND EVERYTHING, BUT THEN YOU KNEW YOU' D HAVE TO, LIKE, KISS HIM, I MEAN, I THINK THERE' D BE A MOMENT WHEN YOU...
|
| 00:38:15 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
I MEAN, I LIVED UP TO THAT
|
| 00:38:16 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
FOR AS LONG AS I POSSIBLY COULD, UNTIL I FELT, AS I THINK OFTEN DOES HAPPEN WITH PEOPLE WHO TRY AND KILL OFF THEIR EMOTIONAL CORE, THAT YOU' RE BECOMING...
|
| 00:40:04 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THAT NOTHING WAS THERE. THIS WHOLE LIFE HAD BEEN BUILT, THIS WHOLE PERSON HAD BEEN BUILT AROUND SOMETHING THAT WAS ESSENTIALLY EMPTY.
|
| 00:40:10 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
YOU KNOW, I' M... MY CHRISTIANITY, MY CATHOLICISM TELLS ME THAT LOVE IS IMPORTANT TO PEOPLE. >> ARE YOU STILL CATHOLIC? >> YEAH. >> PRACTICE IT? >> YES....
|
| 00:40:34 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AND REACH--
|
| 00:40:35 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THEY ACCEPT.
|
| 00:40:36 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
|
| 00:40:37 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THEY' VE CONCEDED THAT THERE ARE
|
| 00:40:40 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
HOMOSEXUALS, THAT THEY ARE CONSTITUTIVELY
|
| 00:40:42 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
HOMOSEXUAL, THAT
|
| 00:40:43 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THEY WILL NEVER BE CURED-- THEY
|
| 00:40:45 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CAN' T EVER BE CURED, WHATEVER THAT MEANS-- AND THAT THEY DESERVE THE SAME DIGNITY AND RESPECT AS ANY OTHER HUMAN BEING. AND SO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, IN...
|
| 00:44:31 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WOMAN.
|
| 00:44:35 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE IMAGE I THINK ABOUT AND DESCRIBE IN THE BOOK IS IT WAS LIKE BEING IN A BLACK AND WHITE MOVIE AND SUDDENLY IT... IT' S IN COLOR. AND... AND THE POINT...
|
| 00:46:35 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
YOU SAY IN THE BOOK YOU' RE PARTICULARLY CLOSE TO YOUR MOTHER. >> YEAH. >>
|
| 00:46:38 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WHAT WAS HER REACTION? >> DO YOU WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH? >> MM- HMM. >> WELL, IT WAS VERY BRITISH.
|
| 00:46:52 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
|
| 00:46:53 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
I SAID, " I' M GAY. I WAS HAPPY
|
| 00:46:56 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AND I ALWAYS WILL
|
| 00:46:57 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BE, AND I JUST WANT YOU TO KNOW
|
| 00:47:00 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THAT, AND
|
| 00:47:01 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TO KNOW THAT I AM HAPPY ABOUT THAT, AND THAT' S ME. I' D LIKE... YOU KNOW, ONE OF
|
| 00:47:05 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE REASONS I DID THAT WAS BECAUSE I WANTED TO GET MY
|
| 00:47:10 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
PARENTS BACK. YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU' RE... I THINK A GAY KID THAT SORT OF TRIES TO SORT OF SUPPRESS THIS AND BE SECRETIVE ABOUT IT, SECRETLY THEN, LIKE,...
|
| 00:48:49 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
|
| 00:48:50 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AND THEY WERE BOTH THERE AT THE SAME TIME. AND I... I WAS SORT OF TAKEN ABACK, AND I SAID, YOU KNOW, " WHY ARE YOU... WHY? DON' T DO THIS; I' M FINE."...
|
| 00:52:20 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WHICH IS AN AMAZING BLESSING. THEN I GOT ONE
|
| 00:52:23 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TO HARVARD, TO GRAD SCHOOL THERE. I NEVER WANTED TO COME TO AMERICA, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, BUT I GOT THE SCHOLARSHIP TO GO, AND... AND I WENT. MY MOTHER......
|
| 00:53:52 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE BOOK ACTUALLY COMES TO THAT CONCLUSION. I BELIEVE THAT SOCIETY IS NOW SO COMPLICATED AND DIVERSE THAT ONLY LIBERAL NEUTRALITY, LIBERAL LAWS, A LIBERAL...
|
| 00:54:04 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
STATE CAN CREATE PEACE. I DON' T THINK WE CAN ALL BE IN AN OLD- FASHIONED SORT OF POLIS OR A... I THINK THAT IT' S VERY HARD FOR US TO FIND A SIMPLE...
|
| 00:55:43 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WE' VE TALKED HERE AND IT' S NOT THE EASIEST THING. AND I' M ASKED... I' M ASKED IN SOME WAYS TO BE MORE PERSONAL THAN ANY... THAN HETEROSEXUALS ARE...
|
| 00:56:01 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ABOUT MY PARENTS, THERE, EVEN THOUGH THAT... THAT WAS A VERY PRIVATE MOMENT, AND... BUT I THINK BECAUSE I KNOW THEY WOULDN' T MIND, AND I KNOW I' M PROUD...
|
| 00:58:05 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
U. S. DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION] [ Captioned by The Caption Center WGBH Educational Foundation]
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| 00:58:18 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
aCCcC9+ *-
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NOTE: The transcript for this program was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.