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THIS IS C-SPAN'S "AMERICA AND THE COURTS." >> THIS IS C-SPAN'S AMERICA AND THE COURTS, TUESDAY MARKED THE 150TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE SUPREME COURT'S...
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| 00:00:29 |
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| 00:00:33 |
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WE'RE JOINED AT THE TABLE BY MARK GRABER A PROFESSOR OF LAW AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND. AND AUTHOR OF "DRED SCOTT AND THE PROBLEM OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL...
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| 00:01:23 |
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FROM TAKING THEIR ENSLAVED PROPERTY INTO THE FREE TERRITORIES, AND SO THE IDEA WAS THAT MISSOURI COMPROMISE WAS NOT CONSTITUTIONAL AND EVEN IF DRED...
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| 00:02:05 |
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LIVED IN FREE TERRITORY? AND SO WHAT THE COURT DECIDES IS THAT FIRST AND FOREMOST HE HAD NO STANDING IN THE
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| 00:02:12 |
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FEDERAL COURT BECAUSE HE WAS NOT A CITIZEN OF THE UNITED STATES. AND THAT, IN FACT, HE WAS NOT EVEN A CITIZEN OF THE STATE OF MISSOURI BECAUSE HE...
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| 00:03:11 |
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NORTH OF THE LINE WHICH IS THE SOUTHERN BORDER OF MISSOURI, SLAVERY WOULD NOT
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| 00:03:16 |
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BE ALLOWED. >> WHO WAS DRED SCOTT >> DRED SCOTT WAS SIMPLY A SLAVE WHO REALLY IN SOME SENSE GOT CAUGHT UP IN CIRCUMSTANCES. HE WAS A SLAVE THAT TRAVELLED...
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| 00:03:37 |
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IS HE ENDED UP
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| 00:03:39 |
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TAKING DRED SCOTT EVERY PLACE A SLAVE COULD BE TAKEN. THEY WENT TO THE DEEP SOUTH, LOUISIANA, ILLINOIS, A FREE STATE. THEY WENT TO MINNESOTA TERRITORY...
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| 00:04:18 |
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DECIDE THE CASE, AND REALLY I THINK HISTORIANS WOULD
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| 00:04:25 |
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SAY THAT THE SUPREME COURT TRIED TO PUT ITSELF IN THE POSITION OF RESOLVING THE DISPUTE ABOUT THE EXTENSION OF SLAVERY AND RESOLVING IT IN A PARTICULAR...
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| 00:05:55 |
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BE RECOGNIZED IN THE FEDERAL COURT, ONLY A STATE COURT. SECOND, AS LONG AS
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| 00:05:59 |
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THE DECISION WAS GOOD LAW, CONGRESS OR THE PRESIDENT COULD NOT FORBID SLAVERY IN AN AMERICAN TERRITORY. IN 1862, HOWEVER, CONGRESS PASSED LEGISLATION...
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| 00:06:39 |
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1850 AND SL 60 WAS AN INTERESTSING ONE IN TERMS OF HOW QUICKLY THE COUNTRY SORT OF FELL APART AND THE WAR CAME.
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| 00:06:48 |
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IT CERTAINLY POLARIZED THE COUNTRY EVEN MORE THAN IT HAD BEEN POLARIZED. THE DECISION IS BEING RENDERED AT A TIME WHEN THERE'S A REAL DIVISION OVER...
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| 00:07:38 |
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THE MOST EXTREME SOUTHERN UNDERSTANDING OF THE DECISION WAS THE CORRECT ONE. IT'S WORTH CORRECTING
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| 00:07:46 |
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WHAT CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS SAID AT HIS CONFIRMATION HEARINGS. THIS WAS NOT A COURT RUNNING AMUCK FROM THE REST OF THE LEGAL SYSTEM. AND LINCOLN DID...
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| 00:08:35 |
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RECOURSE IN AN EXTREME STATEMENT HE WROTE, NO ONE WE PRESUME SUPPOSES ANY CHANGE IN PUBLIC OPINION OR FEELING IN THE CIVILIZED NATIONS OF EUROPE OR...
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| 00:08:52 |
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CONSTITUTION A MORE LIBERAL CONSTRUCTION THAN THEY WERE INTENDED TO BEAR WHEN THE INSTRUMENT WAS FRAMED AND ADOPTED. THOSE WORDS WERE PENNED IN 1857....
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| 00:10:17 |
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HAVE LATER ON IS NOT JUST THEN AND LATER ON AND NOW AS WELL IT'S
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| 00:10:22 |
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NOT JUST DISCRIMINATION OR THE PREVENTION OF DUE PROCESS AND CUSTOM BUT CERTAINLY IN TERMS OF ANOTHER SUPREME COURT DECISION, IF WE LOOK AT THE FERGUSON...
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| 00:11:06 |
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OF MISSOURI. ONE THERE STANCE DOES GO TO THE U.S. CIRCUIT COURT, AND THE MISSOURI SUPREME COURT AND
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| 00:11:13 |
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THEN ON TO THE U.S. SUPREME COURT. HE DOES WIN IN THAT SECOND ROUND HE DOES WIN BUT THE CASE IS APPEALED AND SO HE LOSES AND IT DOES GO THE SUPREME...
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| 00:12:09 |
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JUSTICE TAWNY'S RULING ON THE MERITS, WHAT IS FASCINATING READING, ALL
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| 00:12:14 |
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PERSISTENCE IS JUST SEEING HOW MUCH SLAVERY AND RACISM IS BUILT INTO THE AMERICAN CONSTITUTIONAL ORDER IN 1857. THAT IS EVERYBODY HAS TO ADMIT WE'RE...
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| 00:13:22 |
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A CIVIL WAR THAT WAS PRECEDED BY THIS DECISION TO ENDS SLAVERY >> IF THEY HAD ATTEMPTED TO DEAL WITH THE ISSUE WHEN THE CONSTITUTION WAS DRAFTED THERE...
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| 00:13:48 |
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ON THE NEAR PERFECT CONSTITUTION. THIS IS THE DIVISION THAT GREAT CONSTITUTION, THIS LITTLE THING CALLED SLAVERY ON THE SIDE. WHAT HISTORIANS HAVE...
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| 00:14:08 |
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THAT THREE-FIFTHS CLAUSE WOULD COUNTS TOWARDS THE ELECTION OF THE PRESIDENT. WHY DOES THE PRESIDENT APPOINT SUPREME COURT JUSTICES? THE SENATE WAS GOING...
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| 00:15:10 |
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PRIMARILY FROM EUROPEAN NATIONS >> I DON'T THINK THE AVERAGE AMERICAN REALLY CARED WHETHER OR NOT AFRICAN-AMERICANS WERE CITIZENS OF THE COUNTRY....
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| 00:15:24 |
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DIDN'T CARE AS LONG AS SLAVERY DID NOT AFFECT THEM. SO YOU
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| 00:15:28 |
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HAVE FOR INSTANCE IN THE WEST PEOPLE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE EXTENSION OF SLAVERY TO
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| 00:15:33 |
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THAT AREA NOT BECAUSE THEY HAVE ANY MORAL OBJECTIONS TO SLAVERY BUT BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO COMPETE WITH ENSLAVED LABOR THEY WANT THAT AREA FREE FOR...
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| 00:16:58 |
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IN THE TERRITORIES SAID THIS IS A HORRIBLE DECISION. BUT IT'S WORTH NOTING THAT DEMOCRATS WHO WERE ABOUT HALF THE NORTHERN POPULATION MOST
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| 00:17:06 |
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SAID NOT A GREAT DECISION, BUT WE CAN LIVE WITH THIS PARTICULARLY BECAUSE IT SEEMS TO CAST DOUBT ON THE REPUBLICAN PARTY. THAT THIS DECISION, SO UNIVERSALLY...
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| 00:18:17 |
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OF SLAVERY. THE SOUTH BECAME VERY CONCERNED ABOUT LINCOLN AS A CANDIDATE AND THEN WHEN HE WON THE ELECTION, OF COURKS THEY FELT THAT THEY COULD NOT
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| 00:18:25 |
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STAY TWIN UNION SO,, I THINK IT DID HAVE AN IMPACT. WHAT THE DECISION DOES -- WHAT THE KANSAS-NEBRASKA ACT EVEN BEFORE THAT IT DOES DESTROY THE DEMOCRATIC...
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| 00:19:27 |
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VAGUE. SO, FOR EXAMPLE, ABOLITIONISTS WOULD SAY NO PERSON CAN
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| 00:19:31 |
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BE DEPRIVED OF LIFE, LIBERTY OR PROPERTY WITHOUT DUE PROCESS OF LAW TO MAKE SOMEONE A SLAVE IS TO DEPRIVE THEM OF LIBERTY WITHOUT DUE PROCESS LAW. THE...
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| 00:20:34 |
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WAS WRONG, RACISM IS WRONG, INDEED ONE OF THE DANGERS IS DRED SCOTT PROVIDES
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| 00:20:40 |
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A TOO CHEAP OCCASION FOR EVERYONE TO CONDEMN SLAVERY AND NOT ASK SERIOUSLY HOW DEEPLY SLAVERY AND RACISM ROOTED IN THE CONSTITUTION, IN THE AMERICAN...
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| 00:21:34 |
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BENJAMIN CURTIS' LIFE
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| 00:21:36 |
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THAT HE SUPPORTED FREE PERSONS OF COLOR. SO IT GOES OFF AS A TECHNICAL THING OF MISSOURI
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| 00:21:42 |
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PLEADING AND IT TURNS OUT UNDER THE TECHNICAL RULES OF
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| 00:21:45 |
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MISSOURI PLEADING, DRED SCOTT MAY, INDEED, BE A CITIZEN, EVEN THOUGH 99% OF ALL FREE PERSONS OF COLOR ARE NOT CITIZENS. JUSTICE MCCLEAN GAVE A ...
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| 00:22:44 |
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150 YEARS LATER WE HAVE STATUTES THAT PROTECT
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| 00:22:47 |
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THE RIGHTS OF AFRICAN-AMERICANS, ALLEGEDEDLY, BUT WE STILL SEE SOME OF THE SAME THINKING THAT LED TAWNY AND THE OTHER SIX JUSTICE ON THE COURT TO COME...
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| 00:23:58 |
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OF DECENCY. >> DRED SCOTT, MY GOODNESS. I MEAN, IN A WAY I GUESS -- IT'S AWFULLY HARD. YOU NEED HISTORIANS TO DRAW THE LESSONS FROM HISTORY BUT I MEAN...
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| 00:24:21 |
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THERE, IT'S DECIDE THE CASE. DECIDE IT, DON'T TRY TO DO SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO SAVE EVERYBODY, IN FACT YOU MIGHT HURT EVERYBODY. >> PROFESSOR MARK...
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| 00:24:53 |
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AND YET WHAT RESULTED WAS DRED SCOTT A HORRIBLE
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| 00:24:59 |
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EVIL. THE LESSON IS NOT IS JUSTICE SCA LYNCH A DOING WHAT TAWNY DID? IS ROE V WADE DOING WHAT TAWNY DID? BECAUSE WE WILL FINDS VERY GOOD DECISIONS...
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| 00:26:22 |
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COULD BE OVERTURNED. IT IS THE 14TH AMENDMENT THAT ACTUALLY DOES GRANT CITIZENSHIP TO AFRICAN-AMERICANS, AND DOES AT LEAST MAKE US, GIVES US THE
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| 00:26:37 |
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ABILITY TO ENJOY DUE PROCESS, AND CERTAINLY THE BEGINNING, THE WAR AND THE PROCLAMATION CERTAINLY MOVES US IN THAT DIRECTION WITHOUT EITHER OF THOSE...
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| 00:27:14 |
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BUT HE DIED WITHIN MONTHS AFTER HAVING BEEN. >> WHAT DO YOU TELL YOUR
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| 00:27:19 |
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STUDENTS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND WHO ARE STUDYING THIS EITHER AS A LEGAL CASE OR POLITICAL DEVELOPMENT? >> WELL, STUDY THE WAY LAW MAY NOT ALWAYS...
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| 00:27:38 |
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WHAT SHOULD WE DO, AND TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE CONSTITUTION AT ALL TIMES IS A COMPROMISE BETWEEN SOME VERY DEEPLY EVIL FORCES AND THAT THIS MAY BE A...
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| 00:27:50 |
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NATION BUILDING, BUT TO QUESTION DID WE HAVE TO GO THIS FAR >> WHAT DO YOU THINK THE LEGACY OF DRED SCOTT IS 150 YEARS LATER? >> I THINK WHEN I...
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| 00:28:15 |
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LEGACY OF THAT DECISION IS THAT THERE WAS --
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| 00:28:20 |
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WE STILL -- THAT'S STILL WITH US, THAT KIND OF THINKING THAT LEADS TAWNY TO THIS CONCLUSION THAT AFRICAN-AMERICANS HAVE NO RIGHTS. IT'S STILL WITH...
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| 00:29:45 |
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JUST CLICK ON AMERICA AND THE COURTS. JOIN US NEXT WEEK FOR AMERICA AND THE COURTS. SATURDAY EVENING AT EASTERN ON C-SPAN. >>
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| 00:29:57 |
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SENATOR HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON IS ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL THIS WEEKEND AS
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NOTE: The transcript for this program was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.