| 00:00:00 |
none, -
COMMITTEE TODAY WILL EXAMINE THE KYOTO PROTOCOL AND THE STATUS OF THE EFFORTS TO REDUCE GREENHOUSE GASES. THE SUBJECTu! IS RELEVANT TO POLICY YOU DISCUSSIONS...
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| 00:00:21 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE KYOTO DEBATE IS BEYOND US, AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED, UNQUOTE. NEVERTHELESS, THEM POLICY MAKERS CONTINUE TO CLAMMOR TO THE UNITED STATES -- FOR THE...
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| 00:07:01 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ENTERED INTO FORCE LAST FEBRUARY. WE ARE TAKING THIS TESTIMONY DESPITE THE FACT THAT THE UNITED STATES IS STILL NOT A PARTY TO THE AGREEMENT. THE PROTOCOL...
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| 00:10:41 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. I
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| 00:10:42 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT YOU KNOW MORE ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGES THAN ANY MEMBER OF THE UNITED STATES SENATE, AND I EXPECT THAT ONE OF THESE DAYS YOU'RE GOING...
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| 00:10:49 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ON THE SUBJECT. I WELCOME OUR WITNESSES, ESPECIALLY LORD NIGEL WATSON AND PROFESSOR MICHAEL GRUBB, WHO HAVE TRAVELED FROM BRITAIN TO TESTIFY BEFORE...
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| 00:11:01 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR ATTENDANCE, AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING FROM YOU. AS CHAIRMAN OF THE CLEAN AIR, CLIMATE CHANGE AND NUCLEAR SAFETY SUBCOMMITTEE,...
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| 00:15:09 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OVER AN UNREALISTIC TIME
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| 00:15:11 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
FRAME. I PERSONALLY LIKEN THE TOYOTA TOYOTA -- THE KYOTO ACCORD. TO ONE OF US DRIVING DOWN THE ROAD AT 60 MILES PER HOUR AND TRYING TO PUT THE CAR...
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| 00:19:40 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WE'RE TRYING TO STAY WITHIN OUR TIME TO GIVE MAXIMUM TIME TO OUR WITNESSES WHO CAME A LONG
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| 00:19:44 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WAYS TODAY. >> I UNDERSTAND. THANKS, MR. CHAIRMAN. >> SENATOR REGOWSKI. >> THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. I DO HOPE I DON'T EXCEED MY TIME. I DO WANT TO...
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| 00:19:57 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CONTINUING THIS SERIES ON CLIMATE CHANGE. VERY IMPORTANT DISCUSSION WE'VE HAD HERE AND NEEDS TO BE CONTINUED. I TOO WANT TO WELCOME THOSE WHO WILL BE...
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| 00:20:05 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AFTERNOON AND THOSE WHO HAVE COME FROM SO FAR AWAY TO PARTICIPATE WITH US. I WISH WE DIDN'T HAVE SO MANY CONFLICTING
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| 00:20:12 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THINGS THIS AFTERNOON. I WON'T
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| 00:20:13 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BE ABLE TO STAY FOR THE FULL HEARING. BUT, AGAIN, I DO APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO FOCUS ON THIS ISSUE. WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE STATUS OF OUR EFFORTS...
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| 00:23:43 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ISSUE OF KYOTO PROTOCOL HAS
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| 00:23:48 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BEEN CON FLATED ALL TOO OFTEN IN THE DEBATE WITH THE ISSUE OF GREENHOUSE GASES BECAUSE I VIEW THESE TWO GASES A -- THESE TWO ISSUES AS SOMEWHAT SEPARATE....
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| 00:27:25 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
PER SWASIVELY ARGUE THE SCIENCE IS NOT THERE BUT CERTAINLY IS NOT SETTLED. WHETHER YOU TALK ABOUT THE OREGON PETITION OR THE HIDE ELBURG ACCORD OR...
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| 00:28:34 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SUBMISSION. I APPRECIATE YOUR WARM COMMENTS, SENATOR. IN FEBRUARY OF 2002, PRESIDENT BUSH REAFFIRMED AMERICA'S COMMITMENT TO UNITED NATIONS FRAMEWORK...
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| 00:36:36 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OF $2,715 FOR A FAMILY OF FOUR ACCORDING TO THE HORTON ECONO ECONOMETRICS. DOES THAT SOUND LIKE IT'S VERY FAR OFF? >> I'VE SEEN THOSE NUMBERS, YES....
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| 00:37:06 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WHICH WAS
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| 00:37:10 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ISSUED BY THE EUROPEAN ENVIRONMENT AGENCY FROM DECEMBER OF 2004. AND IT MADE PROJECTIONS FOR THE FIRST KYOTO PERIOD TRA TRACKS BOTH PROGRESS
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| 00:37:22 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BY THE EU, THE EUROPEAN UNION, AND SOME MEMBER STATES. I'LL BE HAPPY TO SUBMIT A COPY FOR THE RECORD, IF YOU WOULD LIKE, SIR. >> IS THAT SIMILAR TO...
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| 00:37:50 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
A DECEMBER 20th, 2004 REPORT. WHICH IS BASED
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| 00:37:53 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ON 2002 DATA. AND I DID NOTE, I BELIEVE, THAT THE AMBASSADOR HAD PROVIDED, I GUESS, SOME UPDATED FIGURES FROM 2003. AGAIN, THIS IS BASED ON 2002 EMISSIONS
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| 00:38:04 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DATA. THIS REPORT SAYS THAT ONLY TWO EU COUNTRIES, WHICH IS THE UNITED KINGDOM AND SWEDEN, NOW ANTICIPATE MEETING 2010 KYOTO TARGETS/u PURELY THROUGH...
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| 00:40:33 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE PROCESS OF KYOTO, DO YOU REALISTICALLY THINK A PROCESS OF TIME LINES WOULD EVER BE EMBRACED BY VERY LARGE DEVELOPING NATIONS, THE INDIAS, CHINA,...
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| 00:41:09 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SPECIFIC TARGETS AND TIMETABLES. THEY'RE VERY, VERY WILLING TO TALK ABOUT -- THEY'RE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES. THEY'RE OBVIOUSLY WILLING...
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| 00:41:55 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OUR POSITION BY THE UNITED STATES SENATE VERY CLEAR, BY A VOTE OF 95-0, THAT WE WOULD REJECT AN APPROACH THAT WOULD TREAT DEVELOPING COUNTRIES DIFFERENTLY...
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| 00:42:27 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
2.9% BELOW THE 1990 LEVEL. >> WITHOUT OBJECTION, SO ORDERED. >>t( MR. WATSON, YOU HAVE OUTLINED THE ADMINISTRATION'S CURRENT AND PROSPECTIVE POLICIES...
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| 00:42:51 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TO ADDRESS CLIMATE CHANGE? >> I BELIEVE
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| 00:42:53 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE CURRENT ESTIMATE IS $5.5 BILLION. I WILL GET THE EXACT FIGURES AND EXACT BREAKOUT FOR YOU, THOUGH, MR. CHAIRMAN. >> HOW MUCH REDUCTION WAS ACHIEVED?...
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| 00:43:13 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IN THE PERIOD OF 2000 TO 2003. OUR EMISSIONS ARE -- OVERALL GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS
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| 00:43:20 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ARE APPROXIMATELY .08% OVER FROM 2000 TO 2003. SO WE HAVE ACHIEVED REDUCED EMISSIONS. THERE'S A LOT OF REASON FOR
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| 00:43:31 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THAT. >> 1 RELINQUISH 10 OF A PERCENT? >> EXCUSE ME? 8/10 OF A PERCENT, YES. >> MUCH HAS BEEN MADE, AND OTHER WITNESSES WILL TESTIFY LATER IN THE HEARING...
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| 00:43:55 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
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| 00:43:57 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
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| 00:44:00 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
MEETINGS. DO YOU HAVE A SENSE OF HOW THE KYOTO IMPLEMENTATION HAS AFFECTED ECONOMIC GROWTH, POVERTY, ENERGY SECURITY AND POLLUTION REDUCTION OBJECTIVES...
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| 00:44:33 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ENTERED INTO FORCE ON FEBRUARYNi 16th OF THIS YEAR, THE ACTUAL REAL IMPLEMENTATION WILL NOT OCCUR UNTIL DECISIONS ARE TAKEN AT THE NEXT CONFERENCE...
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| 00:45:17 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WIDER, QUICKER DISSEMINATION AND ADOPTION OF NEW ENERGY EFFICIENT AND CARBON CAPTURE TECHNOLOGIES, AND DO YOU THINK THAT WOULD HELP YOUR NEGOTIATING...
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| 00:45:55 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SEQUESTERATION FORUM OR THE IPHE IT MUST BE SUPPORTED BY TWO OR MORE MEMBERS OF THE PARTNERSHIP. AND THE RESULTS OF THAT WORK, WHICH COMES OUT OF THE...
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| 00:46:50 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DISSEMINATION AND ADOPTIONS? >> YES. AS I SAY, SIR, WHEN WE'RE DEALING WITH BASIC RESEARCH AND, SAY, ON THE BASIC RESEARCH SIDE, WE FULLY SUPPORT, OBVIOUSLY,...
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| 00:47:22 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
END OF RESEARCH, WE DO HAVE TO DEAL WITH INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY ISSUES. AND ONCE AGAIN, I'M REALLY NOT EQUAL TIED TO TAKE A POSITION ON THAT RIGHT NOW....
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| 00:47:55 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
INITIATE SUCH A PROGRAM. AND AT THE TIME WE
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| 00:48:01 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DEBATED THIS, I THINK THAT MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES AND THE PUBLIC DID NOT UNDERSTAND THAT
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| 00:48:05 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
MERCURY POLLUTION IS A GLOBAL ISSUE. AND THAT CAN TRAVEL HUNDREDS AND THOUSANDS OF MILES. IN FACT, FROM 1990 TO '99, EPA ESTIMATES THAT U.S. EMISSIONS...
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| 00:50:40 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OF JOBS OVERSEAS. AND THE POLLUTION IS NOT GOING TO GO AWAY. IT IS A GLOBAL ISSUE, WHETHER IT'S MERCURY OR COPPER. >> BY THE WAY, MANY OF THOSE COUNTRIES...
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| 00:51:13 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
I'M SURE YOU'VE HEARD OF A FUTURE-GEN PROJECT WHICH THE DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY HAS PROPOSED TO DEMONSTRATE
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| 00:51:19 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
A ZERO EMISSION COAL-FIRED PLANT BY LATER IN THE DECADE. AND WE'RE PLEASED THAT THAT'S MOVING AHEAD. WE HAVE LOTS OF TECHNICAL WORK TO DO ON IT. Ac...
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| 00:52:18 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ENERGY FOR THIS COUNTRY, AND IF WE DON'T WAKE UP VERY QUICKLY AND HAVE SOME KIND OF A SPUTNIK LIKE COMMITMENT TO DOING SOMETHING ABOUT THIS PROBLEM,...
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| 00:53:22 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IS UNSUSTAINABLE AND DEPLORABLE. AROUND
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| 00:53:25 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
HERE, DR. WATSON, WE HAVE A WAY OF CHARACTERIZING BUDGET CUTS, AND I WANT TO SHARE IT WITH YOU. WHEN SOMEONE WANTS TO DETER OR DISCOURAGE THE REST...
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| 00:54:59 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IMPROVEMENT IN GREENHOUSE GAS ACTIVITY THROUGH NORMAL TECHNOLOGICAL IMPROVEMENTS. IT WOULD BE 14% THROUGH 2010. THE PRESIDENT SAID WE WANT TO DO BETTER...
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| 00:55:58 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE CAR, PUT THE CAR IN REVERSE. WHEN WE WOULD GET TO THE POINT FROM THE WAY WE'RE APPROACHING IT HERE, WHEN WE WOULD SEE GROWTH IN CO 2 EMISSIONS STOP...
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| 00:56:30 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TO GET TO THE STOP AND THEN TO REVERSE. WE'RE NOT THERE. OUR IMPROVEMENT RIGHT NOW IN INTENSITY IS SOMETHING IN THE ORDER OF ROUGHLYu! -- IT'S BEEN...
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| 00:57:27 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CAR. IN FACT, OVER THE PERIOD OF 2002/2003, OUR GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS HAVE
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| 00:57:37 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DECREASED BY .8%. WE DON'T KNOW IF WE CAN MAINTAIN THAT. THERE'S A LOT THAT'S GOING TO DEPEND ON VARIOUS FACTOR. HOW FAST IS OUR ECONOMY GOING TO GROW?...
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| 00:58:26 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
KNOW WHAT OUR GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS ARE IN ANY GIVEN YEAR AND REPORT THOSE TO THE UNITED NATIONS EVERY APRIL. AND WE KNOW WHAT OUR GDP GROWTH IS....
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| 00:58:42 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
MEETING THE PRESIDENT'S 18% REDUCTION GOAL OVER THE PERIOD OF 2012. >> I THINK MY TIME HAS EXPIRED. THANKS, MR. CHAIRMAN. >> THANK YOU, SENATOR CARPER....
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| 00:59:10 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DAKOTA TODAY BECAUSE THEY WOKE UP TO SNOW. BUT GIVEN THAT, I'M VERY
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| 00:59:14 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
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| 00:59:15 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
MUCH LOOKING FORWARD TO HEARING THE TESTIMONY OF OUR WITNESSES AND DO WANT TO MAKE CLEAR THAT I SUPPORT THE CONCEPT OF DEALINc WITH GLOBAL CLIMATE...
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| 01:01:10 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IMPACT ON THE GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS PROFILE. WE BELIEVE IT'S GOING TO LEAD TO MORE EFFICIENT USE OF COAL. MORE EFFICIENT USE OF GENERATIONAL ELECTRICITY....
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| 01:01:49 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SUBJECT, AND DIFFERENT VIEWS AND APPROACHES ABOUT HOW BEST TO ACHIEVE THESE
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| 01:01:53 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
GOALS. BUT I THINK THATsWAS DEFINITELY A STEP IN THE RIGHT
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| 01:01:56 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DIRECTION. I THINK THAT, IF WE ARE ABLE TO IMPLEMENT SOME OF THOSE POLICY CHANGES, I WOULD BE ANXIOUS TO SEE IF THAT FACT REACHES L SCHEDULE, IN TERMS...
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| 01:02:40 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ME. DR. WATSON, I KNOW YOU'RE NOT A SCIENTIST AND THE PURPOSE OF THIS HEARING IS NOT TO REHASH ALL THE ARGUMENTS ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT CLIMATE CHANGE...
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| 01:02:55 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IS NOT, BUT IT JUST STRIKES ME THE ONLY WAY WE CAN INTELLIGENTLY ASSESS OUR APPROACH AND THE KYOTO PROTOCOL APPROACH IS TO DETERMINE HOW URNLENT OF...
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| 01:04:11 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AND ENGAGES WITH LEADERS AROUND THE WORLD. AND WE'VE RESPONDED, I THINKhT, ROBUSTLY -- >> I DON'T MEAN TO INTERRUPT YOU. BEFORE WE ESTABLISH THE RESPONSE...
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| 01:04:41 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
POTENTIAL ADVERSE CONSEQUENCES IN TERMS OF ICE CAPS MELTING OR THE FLUCTUATIONS IN OCEAN TEMPERATURES, CHANGING WEATHER PATTERNS. IS THAT THE ADMINISTRATION'S...
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| 01:05:17 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DOUBT, NO SCIENTIFIC DOUBT ABOUT THAT. AND THAT IS ASSOCIATED, OBVIOUSLY, WITH WARMING. SO THERE IS A HUMAN CONTRIBUTION TO THAT. BUT MANY UNCERTAINTIES...
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| 01:05:51 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IS THAT'S AT TIMES SORT OF A FIRST PRINCIPAL ISSUE THAT ENDS UP BEING DISPUTED IN THIS COMMITTEE. IF, IN FACT, THE ADMINISTRATION DIDN'T THINK IT WAS...
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| 01:06:07 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
MAKE MUCH SENSE.
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| 01:06:08 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IT WOULD BE A BIG WASTE OF MONEY WOULDN'T IT? >> THAT'S TRUE. SECOND QUESTION THEN, I GUESS, I HAVE IS, IF IT IS A PROBLEM, DID I UNDERSTAND CORRECTLY...
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| 01:06:30 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
INTENSITY BUT THAT, IF WE DID NOTHING AT ALL, THAT THE INTENSITY WOULD HAVE DECREASED BY 14% ANYWAY? >> THAT IS THE PROJECTION BY THE ENERGY INFORMATION...
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| 01:07:03 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSION INTENSITYIES, ALTHOUGH THE ACTUAL EMISSION OF GREENHOUSE GASES IS INCREASING? >> WELL, ACTUALLY, AS I SAY, WE JUST HAD A VERY...
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| 01:07:12 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TO MEASURE THIS. WE'RE ACTUALLY A BIT AHEAD OF SCHEDULE ON THE MEETING THE PRESIDENT'S GOAL. YES, WE'RE HOPING TO ACTUALLY DO BETTER THAN THAT. BUT,...
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| 01:07:30 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THEN WHAT PRACTICAL IMPACT IS A 4% IMPROVEMENT IN INTENSITY LEVELS? WHAT DOES THAT MEAN IN THE SENSE THAT, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, THE KYOTO PROTOCOL STANDARDS...
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| 01:07:44 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SWEDEN. NOT SAYING THIS IS A MODEL WE SHOULD EMULATE OR CAN EMULATE. BUT THEY ARE -- THEY'VE REDUCED THEIR ACTUAL EMISSIONS BY 3% FROM 1990 LEVEL....
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| 01:08:20 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
YOU BACK TO, I
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| 01:08:21 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THINK, SENATOR CARPER'S OPENING COMMENT, THE IMPORTANCE OF NOT SLAMMING ON THE BRAKES, BUT TRYING TO REDUCE THE GROWTH. THIS IS PART OF THE EFFORT WE'RE...
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| 01:08:40 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
PERIOD, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 1.8 BILLION METRIC TONS OF CARBON EQUIVALENT THAT WILL NOT BE RELEASED INTO THE ATMOSPHERE. >> IT SOUNDS LIKE A BIG NUMBER,...
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| 01:09:13 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OBAMA.d8 SENATOR DEMINT. >> THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. DR. WATSON, I APOLOGIZE FOR BEING A LITTLE LATE. JUST A COUPLE OF
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| 01:09:20 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
QUESTIONS. I'M WATCHING THIS FROM A DISTANCE AND NOT HAVING BEEN REAL INVOLVED WITH A LOT OF THE KYOTO DEBATE, THE
|
| 01:09:29 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
STATISTICS, MY CONCERN JUST AS AN AMERICAN BUSINESSMAN
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| 01:09:36 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IN THE CONTEXT OF US BEING COMPETITIVE AS A NATION, THE COST OF US DOING BUSINESS BEING COMPETITIVE WITH THE REST OF THE WORLD, THAT PERHAPS SOME OF...
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| 01:10:39 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WAS PEOPLE THOUGHT AT THAT TIME, THE PEOPLE IN CHARGE HONESTLY THOUGHT THAT THE UNITED STATES HAD A CHANCE OF DOING. SO I DON'T WANT TO CAST ANY DOUBTS...
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| 01:13:18 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ACTIVITIES IN MY WRITTEN TESTIMONY, WHICH I DID SUBMIT FOR THE RECORD, SENATOR. YES, WE'RE PLEASED PRESIDENT HAS CHALLENGED BUSINESS TO STEP UP TO...
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| 01:13:33 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
VERY PLEASED THAT THEY HAVE. WE HAVE -- FOR EXAMPLE, WE HAVE A NUMBER OF NEW PROGRAMS WHICH HAVE BEEN INITIATED IN THIS ADMINISTRATION, ONE THAT'S A...
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| 01:15:25 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ASK YOU ONE QUESTION, IF I COULD. THERE'S A STATEMENT IN YOUR WRITTEN TESTIMONY, THAT OVER 80% OF
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| 01:15:31 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
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| 01:15:34 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE ANTHROPROGENIC GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS ARE ENERGY RELATED AND THOUGH THERE ARE ARGUMENTS OVER HOW MUCH, A TRIP PARALEGALLING OF GLOBAL DEMAND ...
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| 01:16:19 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WITH 1.3 BILLION PEOPLE. INDIA GOING ON 1.1 BILLION PEOPLE AND GROWING. SO THAT'S ROUGHLY A THIRD OF THE WORLD'S POPULATION. SO YOU'RE CLEARLY GOING...
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| 01:17:37 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OF ITS CONTRIBUTION TO GREENHOUSE GAS, IS THAT RIGHT? >> I THINK WE GOT OUT OF THE COAL BUSINESS IS TO, AS I UNDERSTAND, I THINK IT WAS STRAIGHT ECONOMICS...
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| 01:18:00 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AND SENATOR CARPER KNOWS A LOT MORE ABOUT THIS THAN I DO, BUT I THINK THE CONTRIBUTION OF COAL TO THE CARBON IN THE ATMOSPHERE IS A MAJOR ALLEGATION...
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| 01:18:17 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
COST
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| 01:18:19 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
EFFECTIVE TECHNOLOGY DEVELOPMENT
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| 01:18:20 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IS THE -- YOU DIDN'T SAY THIS. THOSE WERE YOUR WORDS. MY WORDS IS THE ONLY WAY THAT YOU CAN REDUCE THE INCREASE OF GREENHOUSE GASES WHILE MEETING THE...
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| 01:18:54 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
COAL GASIFICATION. THAT'S THE BEST WAY, RATHER THAN PENALTIES, TO SOLVE THAT
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| 01:18:58 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
PROBLEM? >> WE CERTAINLY BELIEVE THAT AND CERTAINLY BELIEVE THE UNITED STATES SENATE IN CONGRESS MADE A GREAT CONTRIBUTION TO THAT PASSAGE OF THE ENERGY...
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| 01:19:19 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME AND YOUR EXCELLENT TESTIMONY. WE'LL EXCUSE YOU AT THIS TIME AND ASK FOR THE SECOND PANEL TO COME
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| 01:19:29 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
FORWARD. PREVIOUSLY INTRODUCED THE PANEL, BUT IT'S LORD NIGEL LAWSON IS HERE FROM THE HOUSE OF LORDS. WE'RE DELIGHTED TO HAVE YOU. DR. MARGO THORNING,
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| 01:19:38 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
A SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT AND CHIEF ECONOMIST FOR THE AMERICAN COUNCIL ON CAPITAL FORMATION. AND PROFESSOR MICHAEL GRUBB, THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL...
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| 01:20:32 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ECONOMIC AFFAIRS COMMITTEE OF THE HOUSE OF LORDS, WHICH PRODUCED THE REPORT ON THE ECONOMICS OF CLIMATE CHANGE, WHICH IS THE REASON, I ASSUME, THAT...
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| 01:32:41 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
I VERY MUCH APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO APPEAR BEFORE THE COMMITTEE. I WOULD JUST LIKE TO MAKE FIVE POINTS, AND HOPEFULLY THERE WILL BE QUESTIONS AND...
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| 01:32:59 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CHART, FIGURE 1 IN MY TESTIMONY, I WOULD LIKE TO BE INCLUDED IN THE RECORD, SHOWS COUNTRIES LIKE SPAIN ARE APPROXIMATELY 33%, PROJECTED TO BE 33% ABOVE...
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| 01:40:56 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IS A LEGALLY INDEPENDENT GOVERNMENT FUNDED COMPANY THAT
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| 01:41:00 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ASSISTS UK BUSINESS IN IMPLEMENTING CARBON REDUCTIONS AND DEVELOPING LOW CARBON TECHNOLOGIES. THAT'S A HALFTIME POST THAT I'VE COMBINED WITH POSITIONS...
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| 01:49:57 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THAT BE? NUMBER ONE. NUMBER TWO, IF THAT'S THE CASE, ISN'T THAT PRETTY MUCH BEHIND US NOW? AND HOW IS THAT GOING TO AFFECT THE FUTURE? IN OTHER WORDS,...
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| 01:50:39 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
YEARS, IT HAS REVERSED SOME OF THAT AND HENCE SOME OF THE DATA TO WHICH MR. WATSON REFERRED. >> YOU AGREE WITH THAT? >> THAT IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. MR....
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| 01:51:08 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE
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| 01:51:09 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
FACT THAT TONY BLAIR HAS NOW PUBLICLY CONCEDED THAT KYOTO IS NOT GOING TO WORK AND THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE NO SUCCESSOR AGREEMENT OF THAT KIND. THAT'S...
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| 01:52:56 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
EMISSION TRADING SYSTEM WHICH AFFECTS, I THINK, ONLY 9,000 TO 12,000
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| 01:53:00 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
INDUSTRIAL PLANTS IS NOT GOING TO CURB EMISSIONS ADEQUATELY ACROSS THE EU BECAUSE HOUSEHOLDS AND TRANSPORT AND SO FORTH ARE NOT INCLUDED. SO I DIDN'T...
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| 01:54:43 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
PROFESSOR
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| 01:54:44 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
GRUBB. LORD LAWSON, IN THE REPORT, THE SELECT COMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC AFFAIRS
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| 01:54:48 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THAT YOU WERE VERY MUCH INVOLVED IN, I NOTICED THAT THEY -- THERE'S SOME DISCUSSION OF THE MICHAEL MANN SO-CALLED HOCKEY STICK APPROACH. COULD YOU COMMENT...
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| 01:55:04 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IT MATTERS SO MUCH THAT THE SCIENCE UNDERLINED THE STUDY AS RIGHT OR WRONG. >> THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION, MR. CHAIRMAN. I THINK THERE ARE TWO REASONS ...
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| 01:55:29 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CALLED ICONIC STATUS, THIS HOCKEY STICK THING WHICH SHOWS A FLAT TEMPERATURE FROM THE YEAR 1000 A.D. TO 1860, WHEN RECORDS BEGAN. AND THE THEN VERY...
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| 01:58:14 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AGREE WITH THEzV INCREASES TEMPERATURES RIGHT AT THIS TIME? HE SAID YES. BUT LET'S KEEP IN MIND THAT DURING THE MEDIEVAL WARMING PERIOD, TEMPERATURES...
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| 01:59:03 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IMPLEMENTATIONS EFFORTS YIELD VALUABLE INFORMATION UPON THE COST AND THE BENEFIT AND HOW SHOULD SUCH IMPLEMENTATION DATA BE COLLECTED AND USED,? OR...
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| 01:59:46 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DO, THEN INDEED WE WILL DISCOVER WHAT THE COSTS ARE. WE'LL DISCOVER THEY'RE VERY CRAZY INDEED. NORMALLY, BEFORE EMBARKING ON A POLICY, IT IS WISE TO...
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| 02:01:33 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WAS THAT THE PRESENT POLICY OF THE BRITISH GOVERNMENT IS TO FIX ON ONE PARTICULAR RENEWABLE SOURCE OF ENERGY, WIND POWER, AND TO SUBSIDIZE THAT AND TO...
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| 02:01:52 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ARE A WHOLE LOT OF RANGE OF WAYS, TECHNOLOGICAL WAYS OF REDUCING THE CAR BOPP EMISSIONS. WE'VE HEARD A LOT OF TALK ABOUT THEM TODAY. CARBON SEQUESTERATION,...
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| 02:03:07 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CONCERTED U.S. EFFORT? WON'T THE ACTIONS OF THESE STATES PROVIDE IMPORTANT INFORMATION ABOUT COST AND BENEFITS FOR ADDRESSING CLIMATE CHANGE THAT COULD...
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| 02:03:38 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
2010, I THINK, DOWN TO APPROXIMATELY 10% BELOW CURRENT LEVELS. AND THEN GET ON A TRAJECTORY TO REDUCE EMISSIONS BY 60% TO 70% BELOW 1990 LEVELS BY...
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| 02:06:27 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
COMPANIES CAN INVEST IN OR HAVE GAINS READY TO BE REALIZEDmy? >> WELL, FIRST LET ME CLARIFY THAT WAS ABOUT THE CARBON TRUST OWNED PROGRAMS ON ENERGY...
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| 02:06:56 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AND INITIATIVES IN THE UK, INCLUDING PERHAPS MOST SIGNIFICANTLY, IN TERMS OF OVERALL DELIVERY, THE FACT THAT THE GOVERNMENT IN 2000 INTRODUCED A CLIMATE...
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| 02:08:32 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ON OUR AIR RIGS. WE WERE ABLE TO GET IT ON
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| 02:08:35 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WATER, BUT FOR/u SOME REASON WE
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| 02:08:37 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO GET IT ON AIR RIGS, AND THE REASON IS BECAUSE THEY SAID THAT DOING THAT WOULD WOULD -- WOULDN'T LEND ITSELF TO REALLY CLEANING...
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| 02:11:04 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
GENERAL EQUILIBRIUM MODEL, WHICH IS SIGNED TO MEASURE THE ECONOMY OVER 20, 30, 40 YEARS OF CHANGES IN ENERGY PRICES, A VARIETY OF INDEPENDENT RESEARCH...
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| 02:14:30 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
NIMBY, NOT IN MY BACKYARD. THE OTHER THING WE TRIED TO DO IN THE ENERGY BILL IS TO PROVIDE INCENTIVES TO MOVE FORWARD. AND I'D BE INTERESTED IN YOUR...
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| 02:15:27 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WHAT WAS THE SECOND PART OF YOUR QUESTION? >> THE SECOND PART IS THAT AT THIS STAGE OF THE GAME, IF YOU LOOK AT THOSE INCENTIVES THAT ARE IN THE ENERGY...
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| 02:15:50 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
INDEPENDENT OF OUTSIDE SOURCES, I'M
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| 02:15:57 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
NOT
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| 02:15:58 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SURE THAT IN THE NEXT 20, 30 YEARS, THAT'S GOING TO BE VERY REALISTIC. UNTIL WE MOVE AWAY FROM COMBUSTION ENGINES, I THINK WE'RE GOING TO BE DEPENDENT...
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| 02:16:08 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
PERHAPS TRY TO MITIGATE THAT AS PEOPLE RESPOND TO HIGHER PRICE SIGNALS AND MOVE TOWARD MORE EFFICIENT MEANS OF TRANSPORT. BUT I DON'T THINK IT WOULD...
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| 02:16:46 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WELL, CLEARLY, IF WE WERE ABLE TO HAVE ACCESS TO MORE OFFSHORE SITES, IF WE WERE ABLE TO BE DRILLING FOR OIL IN PLACES THAT RIGHT NOW WE CAN'T, THAT...
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| 02:17:07 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
Oc MAKING THAT A VERY CLEAN SOURCE OF ENERGY. WITH NUCLEAR POWER, THAT COULD -- I THINK WE'RE ABOUT 20% NUCLEAR RIGHT NOW FOR OUR ELECTRICITY PRODUCTION....
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| 02:18:17 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
LIVES WEREN'T CHANGED. AND ALSO THE CORPORATE TAX RATE HAS NOT BEEN LOWERED. AS I SAID, IT'S NOW QUITE HIGH COMPARED TO OUR COMPETITORS. SO THOSE
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| 02:18:26 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TWO FACTORS GIVE OUR COMPANIES A HIGH COST OF CAPITAL. >> I'D BE VERY INTERESTED, AND I'M SURE THE COMMITTEE WOULD IF, IN FACT, YOU'D PUT IT IN THE ...
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| 02:18:54 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THROUGH YOUR RESUME, LORD LAWSON AND I WAS WONDERING WHO IN THE UNITED STATES HAS HAD THE KIND OF PORTFOLIO YOU HAVE AS A CABINET SECRETARY. THAT'S AN...
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| 02:19:02 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OF RESPONSIBILITIES.
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| 02:19:04 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
BUT THANK YOU VERY, VERY MUCH FOR COMING A LONG
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| 02:19:06 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WAYS TO BE WITH US HERE TODAY. I JUST WANT TO SAY AGAIN, SENATOR VOINOVICH, I THINK HE'S ON TO SOMETHING WITH THIS ENERGY INDEPENDENCE. IT'S NOT JUST...
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| 02:20:59 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
HAVE NUMBERS LIKE THESE. AND THE EU LETTER,
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| 02:21:04 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
I BELIEVE, PUT FORWARD ITS
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| 02:21:06 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ASSESSMENT. AND CERTAINLY, THE STATEMENT IN DR. THORNING'S TESTIMONY THAT FULLY ECONOMIC MODELS ALWAYS PRODUCE HIGHER NUMBERS THAN THE KIND OF MODEL...
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| 02:24:56 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SECTOR. WE'VE ASKED THEM, PARTICULARLY THE UTILITY COMPANIES, TO COME IN AND TALK WITH US F THEY WERE IN OUR SHOES, HOW THEY WOULD GO ABOUT REDUCING...
|
| 02:25:43 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IN PLACE, AND AS PART OF THAT, I SHOULD SAY, ALSO LED TO THE CREATION OF THE COMMON TRUST, WHICH WAS A JOINT DEAL BETWEEN BRITISH GOVERNMENT AND INDUSTRY...
|
| 02:26:25 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
LOSE MONEY. THEY BELIEVE IT'S -- YOU CAN DO GOOD AND DO WELL AT THE SAME TIME. AND I THINK THEY'RE ON TO SOMETHING. I THINK THEY'RE ON TO SOMETHING....
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| 02:27:04 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AS I UNDERSTAND IT, IT'S THE AMOUNT OF ENERGY USED TO PRODUCE A DOLLAR OF OUTPUT
|
| 02:27:08 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OR A EURO OF
|
| 02:27:12 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OUTPUT. AND ON YOUR
|
| 02:27:16 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CHART YOU SHOWED US EARLIER THAT'S IN YOUR PRINTED MATERIALS, THOSE COUNTRIES IN THE UK, HAVE ALL OF THEM RATIFIED AND SIGNED THE KYOTO
|
| 02:27:24 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
PROTOCOL? >> WELL, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, IT WAS THE GOVERNMENT THAT WOULD SIGN THE TREATY, NOT -- >> BUT ARE ALL OF THEM ATTEMPTING TO MEET THE 2010 STANDARDS...
|
| 02:27:49 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THINK, AND PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, THAT THE UNITED
|
| 02:27:53 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
STATES HAS REDUCED EMISSION INTENSITY BY
|
| 02:27:58 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
17% OVER THE SAME PERIOD
|
| 02:27:59 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OF TIME/u THE EU HAD REDUCED IT BY 7%, IS THAT
|
| 02:28:03 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CORRECT? >> OVER THE 1992 TO 2002 PERIOD, OUR ENERGY INFORMATION
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| 02:28:07 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
DATA SHOWS THE U.S. HAS REDUCED EMISSIONS INTENSITY ALMOST 17% COMPARED TO ABOUT 7% IN THE EU. >> SO I GUESS MY POINT -- I'M SORRY SENATOR CARPER...
|
| 02:28:26 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
NOT RATIFIED THE TREATY IS EXCEEDING WHAT WOULD BE THE GOALS OF THE TREATY, I GUESS, IN PART? AT A FASTER
|
| 02:28:36 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
RATE THAN ARE THOSE THAT ARE SIGNERS TO THE TREATY? >> WELL, WE'RE REDUCING OUR RATE OF GROWTH, AS DR. WATSON TESTIFIED. OUR EMISSIONS ARE STILL GROWING....
|
| 02:29:00 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
RIGHT NOW TO ABSOLUTELY STOP GROWTH IN EMISSIONS. BUT WE ARE CERTAINLY DOING A CREDIBLE JOB IN TERMS OF ENERGY INTENSITY, AND AS DR. WATSON SAID, ARE...
|
| 02:29:39 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THE U.S. COMPANIES ON THEIR OWN, I THINK, BECAUSE OF OUR CONGRESS AND OUR COUNTRY'S EMPHASIS ON CLEAN AIR IS DOING A PRETTY GOOD JOB OF LOWERING THAT....
|
| 02:30:13 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
EU EMISSIONS WERE MORE OR LESS STATIC, DECLINED SLIGHTLY OVER THE PERIOD CONSIDERED. I CAN ASSURE YOU THE EUROPEAN ECONOMY GREW BY MORE THAN 7% DURING...
|
| 02:30:25 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
I JUST DO NOT SEE HOW A 7% REDUCTION IN REMISSIONS -- >>
|
| 02:30:29 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
I THINK HER STATEMENT WAS THE EMISSION INTENSITY IN THE U.S. WAS 17, AND IN EUROPE IT WAS 7. >> THE REDUCTION IN EMISSIONS INTENSITY PER DOLLAR OF OUTPUT....
|
| 02:30:51 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
PROFESSOR, LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION. I
|
| 02:30:58 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
LOVE Y'ALL'S ACCENTS. I GUESS I GAVE WHERE I'M FROM AWAY WHEN I SAID
|
| 02:31:02 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
Y'ALL. BUT LORD LAWSON AND
|
| 02:31:07 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
PROFESSOR GRUBB HAVE BEAUTIFUL
|
| 02:31:09 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ACCENTS. THE ONLY PROBLEM WITH THEM IS SOMETIMES YOU START LISTENING TO
|
| 02:31:12 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
MORE WHAT IT SOUNDS LIKE THEY'RE SAYING THAN WHAT THEY'RE SAYING. >> MAYBE IT'S INTENTIONAL. >> IT SOUNDED LIKE TO ME IN PART OF YOUR TESTIMONY YOU WERE...
|
| 02:31:37 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
MUCH THE GROUNDING OF AN
|
| 02:31:39 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
EFFICIENT POLICY. >> AND YOU REFERRED TO MAGGIE THATCHER'S PERIOD OF PRIVATIZATION AND PRIVATE ENTERPRISE EMPOWERMENT, I GUESS IS WHAT IT WAS, AS...
|
| 02:31:51 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
YOU SAY A REFERENCE TO DOING THAT THROUGH IMPOSITIONS OF TARGETS AND PENALTY. DID c HEAR THAT RIGHT? WHAT DID YOU SAY? >>
|
| 02:32:01 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TO AN ECONOMIST, MARKET-BASED SOLUTION TO AN ENVIRONMENTAL PROBLEM IS USING AN ECONOMIC INSTRUMENT TO ADDRESS THE POLLUTION. SO THAT RATHER THAN, SAY,...
|
| 02:32:23 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
MORE EXPENSIVE AND YOU, THE COMPANY, CHOOSE HOW TO BEST TO RESPOND TO THAT, OR YOU SAY WE'RE GOING TO CAP THE EMISSIONS AND SET UP A TRADING MARKET...
|
| 02:33:05 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
IS
|
| 02:33:09 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ENTIRELY ARBITRARY. THE SECOND THING I WOULD SAY IS THAT THERE IS NO QUESTION IN ANY RECOMMENDATION IN THE HOUSE OF LORDS REPORT, NOR ANY RECOMMENDATION...
|
| 02:35:30 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
PROFESSOR, OR DR. THORNING, YOU WERE MAKING A LOT OF NOTES. IS THERE ANYTHING YOU WOULD LIKE TO SHARE WITH US ON THE NOTES YOU WERE
|
| 02:35:36 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TAKING? >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SENATOR. I WOULD LIKE TO CORRECT A POSSIBLE MISINTERPRETATION OF THE TESTIMONY I SUBMITTED. WHAT OUR RESULTS SHOW, WHEN...
|
| 02:35:57 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ACTUALLY IMPOSE THE TAXES HIGH ENOUGH TO FORCE DOWNyM ENERGY, WOULD EXPERIENCE GDP LEVELS OF, IN THE CASE OF SPAIN, 4.8% LESS IN 2010 THAN UNDER THE...
|
| 02:37:06 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
WAS PUBLICLY QUOTED AS SAYING THAT THEIR MODEL SHOWED THAT IMPOSING THE KYOTO PROTOCOL ON THE EU WOULD COST ONLY .12% OF GDP, AND THAT'S THE USING
|
| 02:37:16 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THEIR PRIME MODEL, WHICH IS AN INDUSTRY SEC SECTOR MODEL. AND I THINK THAT'S ONE REASON EU POLICY MAKERS DIDN'T ASK MORE QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT IS THE...
|
| 02:39:41 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
CHAIRED THIS COMMITTEE, HAD A MORE DISTINGUISHED PANEL, AND THAT INCLUDES PANEL ONE. I MIGHT ALSO SAY DR. WATSON. IF THERE'S ANYTHING THAT YOU WOULD...
|
| 02:40:24 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
AND EUROPE AND WHAT WE'RE DOING, I WOULD JUST LIKE TO OUTLINE, AS SET OUT IN THE EUROPEAN COMMISSION'S LETTER, EUROPEAN COUNTRIES ARE IN VARIED STATES...
|
| 02:41:57 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
|
| 02:41:59 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OBVIOUSLY, THE COPENHAGENzV CONSENSUS CAME UP WITH. AND GOVERNMENTS HAVE A NEED FOR STRONG ECONOMIC GROWTH TO FUND A VARIETY OF PROBLEMS, NOT THE LEAST...
|
| 02:42:54 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
TO SUBMIT THAT TO YOU. >> PLEASE DO, FOR THE RECORD. LORD LAWSON. >> I WILL SAY VERY LITTLE. I AM EXTREMELY GRATEFUL TO YOU, IF I MAY SAY AGAIN, FOR...
|
| 02:43:14 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
OF ALL, ECHO ONE
|
| 02:43:16 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
|
| 02:43:18 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
THING THAT DR. THORNING SAID AND THAT IS WE MUST NOT BE OBSESSED WITH THIS PROBLEM. NOT BECAUSE THERE ISN'T A PROBLEM, BUT BECAUSE, AS SHE SAID, THERE...
|
| 02:45:41 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
1978.TK"Taj A POINT WELL MADE. DR. WATSON, DID YOU HAVE ANY FINAL COMMENTS TO MAKE? >> JUST WANTED TO THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN, EXPRESS MY APPRECIATION...
|
| 02:46:11 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF KEEPING THINGS IN PERSPECTIVE. AND, ONCE AGAIN, EMPHASIZE THAT, AGAIN, WE BELIEVE THAT ENGAGEING DEVELOPING COUNTRIES IS...
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| 02:46:59 |
Unidentified Speaker, -
SMALL
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NOTE: The transcript for this program was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.