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00:00:1815 min.
Weldon, Curt - U.S. Representative, [R] Pennsylvania

The full committee hearing will come to order,

and I have the honor on my last hearing of chairing at least

the opening of this hearing...

00:16:061 min.
Skelton, Isaac "Ike" - U.S. Representative, [D] Missouri

Curt, thank you for your excellent comments.

We thank you for them. There is a Scottish song that is to the

tune of ``When Johnny Comes...

00:17:084 min.
Weldon, Curt - U.S. Representative, [R] Pennsylvania

I thank the distinguished ranking member, and I

would be remiss if I did not mention our staff on both sides of

the aisle. We have the best...

00:21:27
Skelton, Isaac "Ike" - U.S. Representative, [D] Missouri

Mr. Chairman, thank you, and I ask for

unanimous consent to put my statement in the record at this

point.

00:21:27
Weldon, Curt - U.S. Representative, [R] Pennsylvania

Without objection.

[The prepared statement of Mr. Skelton can be found in the

Appendix on page 49.]

00:21:272 min.
Skelton, Isaac "Ike" - U.S. Representative, [D] Missouri

I will be very brief. However, I would hope

the witnesses would help answer the question, ``Should Iraqi

unit performance be considered...

00:23:3030 sec.
Flynn, George J. - Major General

Chairman Hunter, Representative Skelton, and

distinguished members of the committee, thank you for the

opportunity to appear before you...

00:24:00
Hunter, Duncan Lee - U.S. Representative, [R] California

General Flynn, absolutely, and without

objection, all written statements will be taken into the

record, so feel free to summarize in the...

00:24:002 min.
Flynn, George J. - Major General

Yes, sir. I would like to now highlight

briefly some of the key aspects of our approach.

Our transition teams advise, train and mentor Iraqi...

00:26:2312 sec.
Hunter, Duncan Lee - U.S. Representative, [R] California

Thank you, General Flynn.

And General Ham and General Lovelace, do you

have statements at this time? General Ham?

00:26:353 min.
Ham, Carter F. - Major General

Sir, if I may, Mr. Chairman and Congressman

Skelton and members, again, thanks for this opportunity to come

talk with you about how we are...

00:29:55
Hunter, Duncan Lee - U.S. Representative, [R] California

General Ham, thank you.

[The prepared statement of General Ham can be found in the

Appendix on page 59.]

General Lovelace.

STATEMENT...

00:29:551 min.
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Sir, very quickly, Chairman Hunter,

Congressman Skelton, distinguished Members of Congress, first

off, on behalf of the Secretary of the...

00:31:521 min.
Hunter, Duncan Lee - U.S. Representative, [R] California

Thank you very much, General.

[The prepared statement of General Lovelace can be found in

the Appendix on page 62.]

And gentlemen,...

00:33:15
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

I will sit closer to it, sir. Is that all

right?

00:33:15
Hunter, Duncan Lee - U.S. Representative, [R] California

Okay.

00:33:1537 sec.
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Sir, the team composition, and it is in

the written testimony, basically is about 10 to 15 people. The

lowest that the teams go down to...

00:33:5257 sec.
Hunter, Duncan Lee - U.S. Representative, [R] California

Okay.

What have you got if you are an Iraqi battalion? Let us

presume you are in the Sunni Triangle or in Baghdad; you are

making...

00:34:4954 sec.
Flynn, George J. - Major General

Sir, the teams that we are training that go

with the Iraqi battalions are normally 11-man teams, and the

composition is usually 2 infantry...

00:35:4360 sec.
Hunter, Duncan Lee - U.S. Representative, [R] California

Okay. So there is a difference between this

concept of having this team that is basically an advisory team,

and also--it also gives you...

00:36:4320 sec.
Flynn, George J. - Major General

Sir, these advisors do train, though. They

mentor. And also by their presence, sir, they are setting a

personal example by being there,...

00:37:0317 sec.
Hunter, Duncan Lee - U.S. Representative, [R] California

Okay. Gentlemen, do you gentlemen have

personal experience watching the teams that are present in Iraq

work with the Iraqi military? Have...

00:37:20
Ham, Carter F. - Major General

Yes, sir, I have.

00:37:2011 sec.
Hunter, Duncan Lee - U.S. Representative, [R] California

Give us your assessment of how effectively

they work.

00:37:3133 sec.
Ham, Carter F. - Major General

Sir, quite obviously, the performance of the

Iraqi units is across the spectrum, but the teams, in addition

to their advising and mentoring...

00:38:049 sec.
Hunter, Duncan Lee - U.S. Representative, [R] California

Okay. I have got a few other questions, but

let us move down the line here to the distinguished gentleman

from Missouri, Mr. Skelton.

00:38:1311 sec.
Skelton, Isaac "Ike" - U.S. Representative, [D] Missouri

Mr. Chairman, thank you.

General Lovelace, to your knowledge, when did we begin

training Iraqi troops?

00:38:241 min.
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Sir, the training of the Iraqi soldiers

started almost immediately in 2003. It was done at a very small

level, and in or around the summer...

00:39:4516 sec.
Skelton, Isaac "Ike" - U.S. Representative, [D] Missouri

General, how many Iraqi forces are fully

trained and capable of sustaining themselves today?

00:40:01
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Sir, let me do this. I probably have the

information with me.

I do not have that specific----

00:40:01
Skelton, Isaac "Ike" - U.S. Representative, [D] Missouri

Could you give me your best judgment?

00:40:0117 sec.
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Sir, right now, they have--when you are

talking about Iraqi forces, I am assuming that you are talking

about the police and the army.

00:40:1811 sec.
Skelton, Isaac "Ike" - U.S. Representative, [D] Missouri

I am talking about those that can operate on

their own and go after the insurgents or the sectarian violence

or whoever is out there.

00:40:299 sec.
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Sir, there are about 80-plus battalions

at this time who are able to operate in the lead.

00:40:3810 sec.
Skelton, Isaac "Ike" - U.S. Representative, [D] Missouri

How many are there all together in the

training program today?

00:40:48
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Sir, when we have got it, I will get

right back with you.

00:40:48
Skelton, Isaac "Ike" - U.S. Representative, [D] Missouri

Well, can you tell us before the end of the

hearing?

00:40:48
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Oh, yes, sir. I am saying somebody behind

me is going to hand me the answers.

00:40:4824 sec.
Skelton, Isaac "Ike" - U.S. Representative, [D] Missouri

One last question.

Generally, should the Iraqi unit performance be considered

a reflection of the training team's proficiency?

00:41:12
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Sir, I am taking a while just to think

about how to answer that. I mean, it is a lot----

00:41:129 sec.
Skelton, Isaac "Ike" - U.S. Representative, [D] Missouri

Just tell the truth. That will work.

00:41:21
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Sir, that is what I am about to do.

Sir, any job----

00:41:21
Skelton, Isaac "Ike" - U.S. Representative, [D] Missouri

I have Fort Leonard Wood in my district.

00:41:21
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

I am sorry, sir?

00:41:2121 sec.
Skelton, Isaac "Ike" - U.S. Representative, [D] Missouri

I have Fort Leonard Wood in the 4th District

of Missouri, and the product that those drill sergeants put out

is a reflection as to how good...

00:41:42
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Sir----

00:41:4211 sec.
Skelton, Isaac "Ike" - U.S. Representative, [D] Missouri

Let me ask you again.

Should an Iraqi unit's performance be considered a

reflection of the training team's proficiency?

00:41:5317 sec.
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Sir, I think that the training team is

trained and equipped, and what they are capable of doing in

some measure is a reflection of the capability...

00:42:10
Skelton, Isaac "Ike" - U.S. Representative, [D] Missouri

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

00:42:101 min.

Excuse me.

Mr. Skelton, I did not realize you were going to give up. I

am a little confused here. The gentleman said that he was going

to...

00:43:19
Skelton, Isaac "Ike" - U.S. Representative, [D] Missouri

He will in a few moments.

00:43:1913 sec.

He said a few moments. That was a few

moments. You have got somebody right there. They are writing

numbers down there. We do not even know...

00:43:32
Skelton, Isaac "Ike" - U.S. Representative, [D] Missouri

Has someone given them to you yet, General?

00:43:32
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Sir, nobody has given me numbers yet, no.

00:43:3212 sec.
Hunter, Duncan Lee - U.S. Representative, [R] California

When the General gets the numbers that the

gentleman from Missouri requested, we will give him every

opportunity to----

00:43:44
Skelton, Isaac "Ike" - U.S. Representative, [D] Missouri

Just raise your hand, all right?

00:43:44
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Sir, I will. I am not trying to keep any

information from anybody. I mean, I just do not have it----

00:43:447 sec.
Hunter, Duncan Lee - U.S. Representative, [R] California

General, get closer to the mike. We cannot

hear you.

00:43:51
Skelton, Isaac "Ike" - U.S. Representative, [D] Missouri

Just raise your hand when you get the numbers,

please.

00:43:5123 sec.
Hunter, Duncan Lee - U.S. Representative, [R] California

Okay. The gentleman will provide that when he

receives it.

The gentleman from Indiana, Mr. Hostettler, is recognized,

and I think...

00:44:1450 sec.
Weldon, Curt - U.S. Representative, [R] Pennsylvania

I thank my colleague.

Yes, Mr. Reyes is not here. I was going to make this in the

opening statement, but Mr. Reyes' integrity has been impugned

by...

00:45:04
Hunter, Duncan Lee - U.S. Representative, [R] California

I thank the gentleman.

And continuing this line of questioning, Mr. Hostettler, do

you have any questions you would like to ask?

00:45:0410 sec.

No questions.

00:45:14
Hunter, Duncan Lee - U.S. Representative, [R] California

The gentleman from South Carolina, Mr.

Spratt.

00:45:141 min.
Spratt, John M Jr. - U.S. Representative, [D] South Carolina

Thank you very much for your testimony.

About a year ago, a little bit longer perhaps, we were

given the formulation that our troops would...

00:46:2460 sec.
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Sir, I am not sure what information

specifically you received. I know that the strategy is that as

we build the capacity for the Iraqi security...

00:47:2411 sec.
Spratt, John M Jr. - U.S. Representative, [D] South Carolina

Do we have a process for determining equipment

that we would otherwise leave behind that can be refurbished

and brought to utility for these...

00:47:35
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Sir, they go through a foreign military

sales program no different than what any other country would.

00:47:35
Spratt, John M Jr. - U.S. Representative, [D] South Carolina

Oh, okay.

00:47:3527 sec.
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

So that is how they secure it.

As far as leaving behind equipment, U.S. equipment, if it

is appropriate and it is excess and in accordance...

00:48:0246 sec.
Spratt, John M Jr. - U.S. Representative, [D] South Carolina

Let me ask you along a different line of

questioning because time is limited, are you concerned as we

shift to this role of fewer Americans...

00:48:4845 sec.
Flynn, George J. - Major General

Sir--I will take a shot at that, sir.

I think the key part is to making sure that we train them

correctly and we man them correctly, and...

00:49:338 sec.
Hunter, Duncan Lee - U.S. Representative, [R] California

I thank the gentleman. Folks, we have about 5

minutes left on a 15-minute vote.

00:49:4127 sec.
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Real quick, just one addendum. Sir, one

of the other important pieces is, that is why then we equip

that force clearly with communications...

00:50:081 min.
Hunter, Duncan Lee - U.S. Representative, [R] California

Thank the gentleman.

We will resume in about ten minutes. We have one vote,

folks, with about five minutes left.

[Recess.]

Okay,...

00:51:414 min.
Simmons, Robert "Rob" R. - U.S. Representative, [R] Connecticut

Thank you Mr. Chairman and I thank you very

much for tolerating my repeated comments about the importance

of embedded advisers, especially...

00:55:548 sec.
Hunter, Duncan Lee - U.S. Representative, [R] California

Before they answer it, let me just tell you,

I think we have our first volunteer on that CODEL, and in case,

you didn't know it----

00:56:02
Simmons, Robert "Rob" R. - U.S. Representative, [R] Connecticut

He better hurry up and do it before the end of

the year.

00:56:02
Hunter, Duncan Lee - U.S. Representative, [R] California

In case you didn't know it, you are leading

it, and which day of the week would you like to take off next

week?

00:56:02
Simmons, Robert "Rob" R. - U.S. Representative, [R] Connecticut

How about tomorrow night?

00:56:0213 sec.
Hunter, Duncan Lee - U.S. Representative, [R] California

Okay, you got it.

We handled that one.

Gentlemen, you want to answer those questions?

00:56:154 min.
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

I will start off here. Just some

interesting statistics here. You talk about, sir, whether it is

career enhancing to have been an adviser....

01:00:19
Simmons, Robert "Rob" R. - U.S. Representative, [R] Connecticut

I appreciate that.

And General Ham.

01:00:192 min.
Ham, Carter F. - Major General

First, Congressman Simmons, you are indeed

welcome.

Mr. Chairman, whenever you would like to send someone,

either Members or staff,...

01:02:421 min.
Flynn, George J. - Major General

Representative Simmons, I would like to add

one thing about whether this is good for a Marine's career.

Marines traditionally have valued...

01:03:531 min.
Simmons, Robert "Rob" R. - U.S. Representative, [R] Connecticut

I want to conclude, Mr. Chairman, by saying,

our soldiers did a magnificent job in defeating a conventional

force quickly and efficiently....

01:04:54
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Mr. Chairman.

01:04:5444 sec.
Hunter, Duncan Lee - U.S. Representative, [R] California

I thank the gentleman and I thank the

gentleman for his great service on the committee, as well as

the gentleman from Colorado here, Mr....

01:05:3853 sec.
Ortiz, Solomon P. - U.S. Representative, [D] Texas

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I know we have been in

this war for too long, three and a half years. I know its

history about what happened in...

01:06:3119 sec.
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Sir, I accept your question, I am not in

a position to answer--I don't have the knowledge, I mean, this

is a policy issue. Things were made--decisions...

01:06:5044 sec.
Ortiz, Solomon P. - U.S. Representative, [D] Texas

And the reason I ask is, because we hope that if

this was a mistake, that we do not make this mistake again.

This is why this is very, very...

01:07:3443 sec.
Flynn, George J. - Major General

Sir, I just say one thing on that. I don't

think we have that information. And but the other part I say, I

think one of the things that...

01:08:1726 sec.
Ortiz, Solomon P. - U.S. Representative, [D] Texas

Now talking about advisers, I was going through

some of the statements, and I understand that they go through

35- to 40-day training. In...

01:08:431 min.
Flynn, George J. - Major General

Sir, as I said in my opening statement, the

training is standards based. We in the Marine Corps, very

similar to how the Army does it, we...

01:10:0027 sec.
Ortiz, Solomon P. - U.S. Representative, [D] Texas

Because what I see, I think you embed anywhere

from 10 to 15 to 20, and the list that I saw, they are mostly

senior, either lieutenant colonels,...

01:10:271 min.
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Sir, if I could and what I like to do

is--I don't have the casualty rates. We will--matter of fact,

one of the things we watch very carefully,...

01:12:0026 sec.
Ortiz, Solomon P. - U.S. Representative, [D] Texas

See, and the reason I asked about the casualty

rate, because you don't know who they are going to be embedded

with. They could turn against...

01:12:2615 sec.
Hunter, Duncan Lee - U.S. Representative, [R] California

My friend from Texas, we will get that

casualty rate for the embedded personnel to date. We will try

to get that for you today. I think...

01:12:41
Flynn, George J. - Major General

Yes, sir, I will give it to my manpower

folks, sir.

01:12:4111 sec.
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Mr. Skelton, I do have an answer to his

questions.

01:12:52
Hunter, Duncan Lee - U.S. Representative, [R] California

I was going to say, Mr. Skelton has, as an

answer and he had a few comments, too.

01:12:5233 sec.
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Sir, the question that you asked me was

the numbers of units that are in the lead. There is a total of

ten divisions in the Iraqi security...

01:13:2550 sec.
Skelton, Isaac "Ike" - U.S. Representative, [D] Missouri

Thank you. One quick comment, General, we all

know whether it is insurgency, counter insurgency, force on

force, the side that always wins...

01:14:151 min.
Ham, Carter F. - Major General

Sir, I will take a shot at that. In my

discussions, very frequently, with the commander of the Iraq

Assistance Group, who is in Iraq and...

01:15:20
Hunter, Duncan Lee - U.S. Representative, [R] California

Thank the gentleman.

The gentleman from Minnesota, Mr. Kline.

01:15:2040 sec.
Kline, John - U.S. Representative, [R] Minnesota

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you very much for being here. I have two questions I

want to get out, so I will ask them quickly and I am...

01:16:0015 sec.
Flynn, George J. - Major General

Sir, the way we source the teams, they are

already a result of a request for forces, or an RFF, which

delineates the mission for the team...

01:16:15
Kline, John - U.S. Representative, [R] Minnesota

From whom?

01:16:15
Flynn, George J. - Major General

From the theater commanders.

01:16:15
Kline, John - U.S. Representative, [R] Minnesota

General Lovelace?

01:16:1515 sec.
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Sir, the same, and they also prescribe

training, the training standards and the program construction

that we train back in the States, and...

01:16:3018 sec.
Kline, John - U.S. Representative, [R] Minnesota

So that, since that request for forces,

apparently you both have the same one; the team should then

look the same, is that right? We have...

01:16:4815 sec.
Flynn, George J. - Major General

Sir, that is being done independently in the

multinational force. They have been adding up. They have been

adding some additional support...

01:17:0340 sec.
Kline, John - U.S. Representative, [R] Minnesota

Thank you. We had the opportunity to chat a

little bit during the break, so to speak. Unfortunately, I left

before I heard the complete...

01:17:431 min.
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

I will start off. My hesitation was to

make sure I understood the question, and I apologize,

Congressman Skelton.

Whether the performance...

01:19:2734 sec.
Kline, John - U.S. Representative, [R] Minnesota

If I could just interrupt for a second. This is

a point that we were discussing earlier. It seems to me that

what you don't want is a tight...

01:20:01
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

No, sir. That is exactly right, sir. You

helped me say it much better. Thank you.

01:20:0114 sec.
Kline, John - U.S. Representative, [R] Minnesota

I have been thinking about it. Thank you.

And incredibly, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.

01:20:15
Hunter, Duncan Lee - U.S. Representative, [R] California

I thank the gentleman.

And the gentleman from Arkansas, Dr. Snyder.

01:20:153 min.
Snyder, Victor "Vic" - U.S. Representative, [D] Arkansas

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for

having this hearing. I know of your continued interested in

this issue, Mr. Chairman, but I think...

01:23:3660 sec.
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Sir, the Special Forces' core competency

is foreign internal defense. In the past, the conventional

forces have also been used, and just...

01:24:36
Snyder, Victor "Vic" - U.S. Representative, [D] Arkansas

I think these are very wonderful young men and

women that are doing these things.

01:24:3629 sec.
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

To get to your question, what we also

have is a growing level of maturity and experience inside the

conventional force that we don't want...

01:25:057 sec.
Snyder, Victor "Vic" - U.S. Representative, [D] Arkansas

General Ham, you refer to numbers 10 to 50. Do

they all train together as a unit?

01:25:129 sec.
Ham, Carter F. - Major General

They do, sir. When they come to Fort Riley,

they come from disparate locations, but they are formed as a

team at Fort Riley and go through...

01:25:21
Snyder, Victor "Vic" - U.S. Representative, [D] Arkansas

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My time is up.

01:25:213 min.
Saxton, H. "James" James - U.S. Representative, [R] New Jersey

Let me follow up on Mr. Snyder's

question for a minute. A few weeks ago the Ranking Member Mr.

Skelton pointed out a book that talked a...

01:28:261 min.
Ham, Carter F. - Major General

Sir, the feedback that we have gotten from the

early deploying transition teams was that the number one task

that they thought that they...

01:29:3618 sec.
Saxton, H. "James" James - U.S. Representative, [R] New Jersey

Let me ask you this. You say that we have had

to make some changes in the way we train our folks because some

of the things that they found...

01:29:541 min.
Ham, Carter F. - Major General

Sir, we focus heavily now in the training to

make sure that the teams, for example, understand the hierarchy

of a tribe. So there may be...

01:30:55
Saxton, H. "James" James - U.S. Representative, [R] New Jersey

General Lovelace, do you have anything for us?

01:30:5531 sec.
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

The other thing I was going to ask was

General Ham to sort of a follow-on piece, because you had

talked about the skill sets would be, sir--to...

01:31:2638 sec.
Ham, Carter F. - Major General

The good news is our attrition rate through

training has been about four percent. It has been quite low.

And the largest reason for attrition...

01:32:0439 sec.
Flynn, George J. - Major General

One thing we have learned in lessons learned

in this is the importance when you pick advisers is they have

to be patient. You know, we have...

01:32:4348 sec.
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

One quick last point on this is that we,

throughout the force, basic training right on up to senior

levels inside the noncommissioned officer...

01:33:31
Saxton, H. "James" James - U.S. Representative, [R] New Jersey

Thank you.

Mrs. Davis.

01:33:311 min.
Davis, Susan - U.S. Representative, [D] California

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank

you all for being here and for your extraordinary service. I

think some of the issues that we discussed...

01:35:201 min.
Flynn, George J. - Major General

Ma'am, a couple of things. One of the things

that helps with the training now is now we are starting to see

advisers come back who now have...

01:36:2110 sec.
Davis, Susan - U.S. Representative, [D] California

Excuse me, are any of our border

agents going over to Iraq then and actually being embedded, as

well or our police officers?

01:36:3129 sec.
Flynn, George J. - Major General

Ma'am, I wouldn't know the answer to that

question. I am not sure about that at all.

But when we do our training in January, our new revised

training,...

01:37:0010 sec.
Davis, Susan - U.S. Representative, [D] California

Freeing folks of the kind of

paperwork that has always been required, is that something we

have been able to work through and do a better...

01:37:108 sec.
Flynn, George J. - Major General

I haven't heard of anybody being burdened

with paperwork. I don't think they think Marines can do

paperwork. Maybe that is the problem.

01:37:1828 sec.
Davis, Susan - U.S. Representative, [D] California

In reflecting on the police task

as well, we know that in the communities this has been a far

greater need in some areas than even in training...

01:37:461 min.
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Let me do this. If I could capture a

couple of quick points. The Krepinevich article. We have been

engaging with him because from our perspective,...

01:39:18
Davis, Susan - U.S. Representative, [D] California

Are they having any extended tours

beyond what might be expected?

01:39:181 min.
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

I think the point is good because that is

why when we invite people to go to Fort Riley, one of the

reasons we have focused on the post--I...

01:40:51
Davis, Susan - U.S. Representative, [D] California

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

01:40:51
Saxton, H. "James" James - U.S. Representative, [R] New Jersey

Thank you.

01:40:511 min.
Wilson, Addison "Joe" Graves - U.S. Representative, [R] South Carolina

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

And, Generals, thank you very much for being here today. I

am very appreciative of your troops and what...

01:42:19
Ham, Carter F. - Major General

Yes, sir, I could.

During the training, as I mentioned, the teams do get some

language training, but as Congressman Snyder indicated, it...

01:42:1941 sec.
Wilson, Addison "Joe" Graves - U.S. Representative, [R] South Carolina

And I learned of that, and one of my sons

served for a year in Iraq, and he was always impressed with the

dedication of the interpreters,...

01:43:006 sec.
Ham, Carter F. - Major General

Sir, I am confident that the teams--if you are

talking about the teams having the equipment they need,

absolutely.

01:43:063 sec.
Wilson, Addison "Joe" Graves - U.S. Representative, [R] South Carolina

The teams and the Iraqi forces.

01:43:0935 sec.
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

First off, the teams do have what they

need. That is a priority fill of equipment for those units

going into the theater. They get up-armored...

01:43:449 sec.
Wilson, Addison "Joe" Graves - U.S. Representative, [R] South Carolina

So it wouldn't be inhibiting to them as to

their resourcefulness because they don't feel like they have

proper equipment.

01:43:533 sec.
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Roger, sir.

01:43:563 sec.
Wilson, Addison "Joe" Graves - U.S. Representative, [R] South Carolina

Thank you very much.

01:43:593 sec.
Saxton, H. "James" James - U.S. Representative, [R] New Jersey

Thank you.

01:44:021 min.
Taylor, Eugene "Gene" - U.S. Representative, [D] Mississippi

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I want to thank you gentlemen for being here and for your

service to our country.

I am curious--and...

01:45:0958 sec.
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Let me tell you what I know, sir, and I

will have to take for the record as far as how we track. I

don't know in general, because I thought...

01:46:0738 sec.
Taylor, Eugene "Gene" - U.S. Representative, [D] Mississippi

If I may, more to that point, I know that, for

example, when people apply for Special Forces training within

our Army, they make a commitment...

01:46:45
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Sir, can I take it for the record?

01:46:45
Taylor, Eugene "Gene" - U.S. Representative, [D] Mississippi

Yes, sir. Please.

01:46:457 sec.
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

I can't answer.

01:46:528 sec.
Taylor, Eugene "Gene" - U.S. Representative, [D] Mississippi

So no one has tracked the retention; no one has

tracked whether these guys immediately take their training, go

over to other side----

01:47:00
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Sir, I didn't say nobody was. All I said

was I don't have that information. I am sure that probably

somebody in theater is tracking those...

01:47:0028 sec.
Taylor, Eugene "Gene" - U.S. Representative, [D] Mississippi

Thank you, gentlemen.

With the time I have remaining--I can hardly yield to the

gentleman from Arkansas, can I? But if you could get it...

01:47:28
Wilson, Addison "Joe" Graves - U.S. Representative, [R] South Carolina

Thank you, Mr. Taylor.

And next will be Dr. Schwarz.

01:47:28

I have no questions.

01:47:2815 sec.
Wilson, Addison "Joe" Graves - U.S. Representative, [R] South Carolina

Mr. Langevin.

01:47:431 min.
Langevin, James "Jim" - U.S. Representative, [D] Rhode Island

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

And, gentlemen, thank you for your service and for your

testimony here today.

I would like to start by following...

01:48:4723 sec.
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Sir, I will have to turn to the people

who have the books behind me and see if I could--if I could

give you a wait out and see what I have...

01:49:1052 sec.
Langevin, James "Jim" - U.S. Representative, [D] Rhode Island

I appreciate that, because obviously that is

key to us finally, once and for all, being able to transition

security operations to the Iraqis,...

01:50:0215 sec.
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Sir, again, the questions are things that

theater would track here. I do not have that--we do not have

that information. I apologize. We...

01:50:17
Langevin, James "Jim" - U.S. Representative, [D] Rhode Island

You don't know the biggest challenges right

now that are preventing us from moving from a level two to a

level one?

01:50:1710 sec.
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

No, sir.

01:50:2745 sec.
Langevin, James "Jim" - U.S. Representative, [D] Rhode Island

If you could get those for the record, those

are important things to know.

[The information referred to can be found in the Appendix

beginning...

01:51:1254 sec.
Flynn, George J. - Major General

Sir, I can answer that a little bit. I know

that the adviser teams report up through the chain of command

on their readiness assessments....

01:52:0658 sec.
Langevin, James "Jim" - U.S. Representative, [D] Rhode Island

Thank you. And while I still have some time,

hand in hand with the training and making sure that the Iraqi

Security Forces are operating...

01:53:0411 sec.
Flynn, George J. - Major General

Sir, again, I would have to pass on that

one. That is best up to the operational commanders to address

because I do not have visibility...

01:53:1545 sec.
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Sir, just to reiterate a point--I know

you have heard this--they have about 85 percent of their

equipment. They do have some up-armored...

01:54:00
Langevin, James "Jim" - U.S. Representative, [D] Rhode Island

Thank you.

01:54:0017 sec.
Wilson, Addison "Joe" Graves - U.S. Representative, [R] South Carolina

Thank you, General Lovelace, and at

this time, Mr. Marshall of Georgia.

01:54:172 min.
Marshall, James "Jim" - U.S. Representative, [D] Georgia

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

One of the struggles that we have had in Iraq is that our

force is largely conventional. It is an unconventional...

01:56:582 min.
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Sir, I will talk first.

The answer to your first question is I would not say that

just because we are putting them in uniform, that now...

01:59:0014 sec.
Marshall, James "Jim" - U.S. Representative, [D] Georgia

Let me interrupt. I suspect that the other

witnesses are going to be relieved of the responsibility of

answering the first question.

Could...

01:59:14
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Sir, the answer to 15 months--I mean, I

do not know. The embeds would say this?

01:59:14
Marshall, James "Jim" - U.S. Representative, [D] Georgia

Yes.

01:59:14
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

That the Iraqi Security Force eventually

will be able to stand up, and----

01:59:14
Marshall, James "Jim" - U.S. Representative, [D] Georgia

Eventually. Fifteen months?

01:59:1413 sec.
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Sir, I do not--you are giving me----

01:59:2713 sec.
Flynn, George J. - Major General

Sir, my honest answer to that is the enemy

gets a vote in this, so I say it is event-driven rather than

time-driven. So every action we...

01:59:4048 sec.
Ham, Carter F. - Major General

Sir, I would say the key factor for the Iraqi

Security Forces would be the full support of their government.

If they have got that, that...

02:00:28
Marshall, James "Jim" - U.S. Representative, [D] Georgia

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

02:00:28
Wilson, Addison "Joe" Graves - U.S. Representative, [R] South Carolina

Thank you.

Mr. Cooper of Tennessee.

02:00:283 min.
Cooper, James "Jim" Hayes Shofner - U.S. Representative, [D] Tennessee

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

For anyone listening to this hearing, they are going to be

wondering why the war is going so badly if our training...

02:04:091 min.
Flynn, George J. - Major General

Sir, I will take one shot at that.

In my personal opinion, we are undertaking, I think, one of

the largest scales--larger-scale foreign...

02:05:251 min.
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Sir, I want to--this is not meant to be a

flippant answer, but from what you just described, it could

have described the Continental Army...

02:06:3056 sec.
Cooper, James "Jim" Hayes Shofner - U.S. Representative, [D] Tennessee

But, General, in the Continental Army, we

weren't worried that our soldiers were leaving to go fight for

the British for a couple of weeks...

02:07:2660 sec.
Ham, Carter F. - Major General

Sir, I was just going to say one thing.

I think, appropriately, the initial focus of the training

and advisory mission was at the combat...

02:08:26
Cooper, James "Jim" Hayes Shofner - U.S. Representative, [D] Tennessee

I see that my time has expired. I thank the

indulgence of the Chairman.

02:08:269 sec.
Wilson, Addison "Joe" Graves - U.S. Representative, [R] South Carolina

Yes. Thank you, Mr. Cooper.

Ms. Bordallo of Guam.

02:08:3551 sec.
Bordallo, Madeleine - Congressional Delegate, [D] Guam

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and good

afternoon, gentlemen.

As you know, I represent Guam, and our island has a proud--

a very...

02:09:26
Flynn, George J. - Major General

Ma'am, I know on our transition teams we use

both active and reserve forces.

02:09:26
Bordallo, Madeleine - Congressional Delegate, [D] Guam

So you will be including them?

02:09:269 sec.
Flynn, George J. - Major General

We have in the past, yes, ma'am.

02:09:35
Bordallo, Madeleine - Congressional Delegate, [D] Guam

Very good. All right.

My second one----

02:09:3511 sec.
Ham, Carter F. - Major General

Ma'am, we do in the Army as well. We have

significant participation by Army Reserve and Army National

Guard as members of the transition...

02:09:461 min.
Bordallo, Madeleine - Congressional Delegate, [D] Guam

Very good. Thank you.

My second question, Major General Ham: You command a

traditional infantry division, and you have been given a task

to...

02:10:52
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

It is me. Although you would like for him

to answer, I----

02:10:52
Bordallo, Madeleine - Congressional Delegate, [D] Guam

Yes, General Lovelace.

02:10:521 min.
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

General Ham can answer it any way he

wants. I am going to answer for the Army, ma'am.

The pursuit of the 1st Infantry Division is a--we...

02:12:1540 sec.
Ham, Carter F. - Major General

Yes. I would say that the 1st Infantry

Division is now specifically tailored for this mission. If you

look at my division headquarters,...

02:12:55
Bordallo, Madeleine - Congressional Delegate, [D] Guam

So then you feel it should endure?

02:12:5512 sec.
Ham, Carter F. - Major General

I will defer to General Lovelace. I know the

mission that--I feel comfortable that the mission that I have

matches the organization of my...

02:13:0738 sec.
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Ma'am, whether we keep it at the 1st

Infantry Division or not, I already know that we have every

intention of modulizing his headquarters...

02:13:4512 sec.
Bordallo, Madeleine - Congressional Delegate, [D] Guam

Well, I thank you very much for your answers,

and I do feel, with the state of affairs the way they are in

the world today, we should have...

02:13:5713 sec.
Wilson, Addison "Joe" Graves - U.S. Representative, [R] South Carolina

Thank you, Ms. Bordallo.

And we have a second round, and, Mrs. Davis, if you have

any further questions.

02:14:1037 sec.
Davis, Susan - U.S. Representative, [D] California

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

We have been at this for a while, and I think that we are

doing a better job, as you described, in trying to train...

02:14:4757 sec.
Ham, Carter F. - Major General

I will try first.

I think there are a couple of factors, ma'am, that are at

play. We are better now at the training of advisors and the

preparation...

02:15:441 min.
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Ma'am, if I could, it is interesting as

you ask the question, because we can put a unit together. We

can take a unit and mobilize it from...

02:17:31
Davis, Susan - U.S. Representative, [D] California

Do you see that effort beyond the

military as well? I mean, that has got to be frustrating to

feel that so much of this burden is on you.

02:17:31
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Sure, I do.

02:17:3126 sec.
Davis, Susan - U.S. Representative, [D] California

And where do you see that

specifically where folks have stepped up to the plate and

provided the other kinds of support that you need?

02:17:5759 sec.
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Right now everybody is--you know what the

equation is--diplomatic information, military and economic--and

right now, the large ``M'' in...

02:18:56
Davis, Susan - U.S. Representative, [D] California

I appreciate that.

Thank you all.

02:18:567 sec.
Saxton, H. "James" James - U.S. Representative, [R] New Jersey

Mr. Skelton and then Mr. Marshall.

02:19:0319 sec.
Skelton, Isaac "Ike" - U.S. Representative, [D] Missouri

General you were speaking about the Government

of Iraq. Is the government fully supporting this effort? It

sounds to me like you gave a...

02:19:22
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Sir, I am not sure--I am not sure exactly

what comment you are referring to. The way I----

02:19:2216 sec.
Skelton, Isaac "Ike" - U.S. Representative, [D] Missouri

Well, is the government fully supporting this

effort, or is it kind of supporting this effort?

02:19:3838 sec.
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Sir, all I was referring to--I was not

qualifying the support as given the military.

All I was saying is that in all of these ministries,...

02:20:1632 sec.
Skelton, Isaac "Ike" - U.S. Representative, [D] Missouri

I am glad Mr. Cooper, a moment ago, corrected

you on comparing this group with the American Revolutionary

Minuteman. I think you were comparing...

02:20:48
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Sir, I am not an historian either. I was

only trying to reference----

02:20:4839 sec.
Skelton, Isaac "Ike" - U.S. Representative, [D] Missouri

General, I think every military person should

be an historian, and I am dead serious. I will let it go at

that, sir. I have one last question.

The...

02:21:2721 sec.
Lovelace, James J. Jr. - Lieutenant General

Sir, that is a question that--and I will

speak for the three of us. I mean, I would love to be able to

answer that question for you. That...

02:21:4822 sec.
Skelton, Isaac "Ike" - U.S. Representative, [D] Missouri

That is the bottom line--when are you not--and

if these folks are incapable of winning, we in Congress should

know about it. The American...

02:22:1052 sec.
Saxton, H. "James" James - U.S. Representative, [R] New Jersey

We want to thank you for being here this

morning. We have been at this for almost three hours, and so we

thank you for your forthcoming...

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