| 00:01:06 |
Tyler, Amanda - Professor
HAVE ASSEMBLED FOR TODAY'S EVENT. FIRST, IT IS MY PRIVILEGE TO WELCOME JUDGE SONJA, WHO JOINS US TODAY FROM THE UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS FOR...
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| 00:05:48 |
Farrell, Peter - Student
MR. CHIEF JUSTICE MAY IT PLEASE THE COURT. IMPETER FARRELL FOR PARTY UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. I WILL BE ARGUING ISSUE ONE BEFORE THE COURT THIS MORNING,...
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| 00:06:33 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
CONCLUDING
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| 00:06:34 |
Farrell, Peter - Student
THAT SUBLIMINAL MESSAGES HAVE NO VALUE? >> YES, YOUR HONOROR, WE DISAGREE WITH DISTRICT COURT'S CONCLUSION RECOGNIZE THAT SUBLIMINAL MESSAGES ARE NOT...
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| 00:06:50 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
THAT HAVE BEEN DEVELOPED ARE ALL BASED ON WHAT THE SPEAKER IS SAYING, THE ESSENCE OF THIS STATUTE IS TO TARGET HOW THE SPEAKER
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| 00:06:57 |
Farrell, Peter - Student
COMMUNICATES THEIR MESSAGE, IN DOING, SO THE PRIMARY CONSIDERATION HERE IS WHAT CONGRESS'S PURPOSE WAS, CONGRESS WAS NOT TARGETING ANY PARTICULAR SPEAKER...
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| 00:07:29 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
I'M TOLD THAT THERE WILL BE A
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| 00:07:31 |
Farrell, Peter - Student
CERTAIN TYPE OF MESSAGE DELIVERED TO ME, AND I CONSENT TO IT. WHY ISN'T THAT PER MISSIBLE? >> WELL, STATUTE IS YOT OVERBROOD YOUR LONOR SIMPLY BECAUSE...
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| 00:07:42 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
BE EVALUATEED IN RELATION TO THE LEGITIMATE SWEEP OF THE STATUTE, NOW IN THIS CASE. >> BUT WE REQUIRE AN NARROWLY
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| 00:07:50 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
DRAWN STATUTE. >> THAT IS TRUE FOR CONTENT BASED STATUTE NEED NOT BE LEAST RESTRICTIVE MEANS I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE THAT THE CONSENT ...
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| 00:07:59 |
Farrell, Peter - Student
WILL BE MINORITY OF CASES, IN COMPARISON, TO THE LEGITIMATE SWEEP OF THIS STATUTE, WHICH IS DESIGNED TO. >> HOW DO WE KNOW THAT I MEAN THESE SUBLIMINAL
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| 00:08:09 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
MESSAGES ARE MARKETED BROADLY TO
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| 00:08:12 |
Farrell, Peter - Student
HELP PEOPLE STOP SMOKING LOSE WEIGHT GO TO SLEEP HOW DO WE KNOW PERMITTED USES ARE GOING A SMALL MINORITY AND THAT THE PRESCRIBEED USES THAT ARE MUCH...
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| 00:08:26 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
POPULATION THAT DECIDES THAT WHATEVER EVIL LEGISLATURE HAD IN MIND, IS NOT PARTICULARLY OFFENSIVE TO THEM, IN TAXPAYERS FOR VINSON. >> DID CONGRESS...
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| 00:08:44 |
Farrell, Peter - Student
IS CONCERNED WAS RECOGNIZING THE 50-YEAR HISTORY OF SUBLIMINAL MESSAGES ITS JUDGMENT MAKING A REASONABLE DECISION THAT ALL SUBLIMINAL MESSAGES MUST...
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| 00:08:55 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
ARE HARM SUBSTANTIALLY OUTWEIGHS THEIR VALUE SO IF ARE YOU DEFENDING THIS AS LEGITIMATELY REACHING A SUBLIMINAL MESSAGE ON A
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| 00:09:04 |
Farrell, Peter - Student
TAPE WHERE PEOPLE KNOW THAT IT IS THERE AND IT DOES SOME GOOD? >> YOU KNOW IT SAYS QUIT SMOKING QUIT SMOKING WHILE PLAYING THE MUSIC PEOPLE SHOW THAT...
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| 00:09:28 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
DOESN'T EVERY WORK OF ART HAVE NOT ONLY THE OBVIOUS MESSAGE, BUT AN UNDERLYING MESSAGE WHICH THE
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| 00:09:36 |
Farrell, Peter - Student
ARTIST HAS PUT IN? DOESN'T EVERY WORK OF FICTION OR WRITE DOING THE SAME SNING IT IS WHY TRANSLATION IS IMPOSSIBLE.
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| 00:09:45 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
BECAUSE TRANSLATION TRANSLATES THE WORDS BUT DOESN'T TRANSLATE THE SUBLIMINAL MESSAGE OF THE WRITER. >> WELL, JUSTICE, I THINK THAT THE INHERENT CAL...
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| 00:10:13 |
Farrell, Peter - Student
WOULDN'T THE AIMS OF CONGRESS BE COVERED BY A STATUTE WHICH SAID THAT YOU MUST DESCRIBE THE SUBLIMINAL MESSAGES THAT YOU ARE TRYING TO MAKE? SO THAT...
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| 00:10:32 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
THAT THERE ARE 53 SUBLIM NAM MESSAGING SOMEBODY DOESN'T NEED TO BUY IT" OR BE AWARE, THAT I AM NOT JUST SAYING WHAT I'M SAYING THAT I'M A POET AND...
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| 00:11:12 |
Farrell, Peter - Student
PURPOSE. AND IS A UNDERSTAND YOUR ARGUMENT, IN YOUR BRIEF THE CONGRESSIONAL PURPOSE IS TO AVOID UP KNOWING CAPTURE OF THE LISTENER, NOT TO PERMIT...
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| 00:11:28 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
RECEIVE. SO THAT THIS IS NOT A NOT THE LEAST INTRUSIVE MANNER OF ADDRESSING THAT THIS THE VERY ESSENCE OF THE ISSUE THAT CONGRESS PURPORTS TO BE ADDRESSING....
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| 00:12:00 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
IF CONGRESS'S
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| 00:12:01 |
Farrell, Peter - Student
PURPOSE WOULD BE ACHIEVED LESS EFFECTIVELY, WITH SOME ALTERNATE SCHEME WHETHER IT BE A LAB LANGE REQUIREMENT ORING SO SIMILAR THAT IS INDICATION...
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| 00:12:18 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
O SUBURB LIM NAM MESSAGE IS ABOUT RADIO MIGHT BE RIDING IN ELEVATOR BOMBARDED WITH SUBLIMINAL MESSAGES. >> TALKING ABOUT EXCEPTION FOR CONSENT, MEANING...
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| 00:12:32 |
Farrell, Peter - Student
ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE FREEDOM TO BROADCAST WITHOUT THAT CONSENT. >> I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE, THAT CONGRESS CHOSE TO BAN ALL SUBLIKEAL...
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| 00:12:44 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
SIMPLY TO COMPLY WITH THIS COURT'S REQUIREMENTS THAT IT NOT MAKE DISTIPIONS IN ITS REGULATIONS THAT ESSENCE HERE IS SIMPLY TO SAY THERE IS AN EVIL LOOKING...
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| 00:12:58 |
Farrell, Peter - Student
THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS NOT MANY, THAT ARE OUTSIDE THE PROTECTION OF THE FIRST AMENDMENT. YOU BEGIN WITH THAT. FIGHTING WORDS, AND SO ON. ISN'T IT...
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| 00:13:20 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
ASK WHETHER WE -- WITHIN THE CATEGORIES THAT ARE PROTECTED, ACTIONS HAVE BEEN TAKEN BY CONGRESS WHICHS NECESSARY -- STATE INTEREST, DEALING WITH IT...
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| 00:14:05 |
Farrell, Peter - Student
NOT ASK THE COURT
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| 00:14:06 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
TO CREATE A NEW PROSCRIBEABLE CATEGORY. >>
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| 00:14:09 |
Farrell, Peter - Student
WE'VE BEEN UNWILLING TO DO THAT WITH THINGS ON THEIR FACE OR OTHER PARTS DON'T HAVE MUCH VALUE LIKE NUDE DANCING. YOU KNOW WE'VE BEEN UNWILLING TO SAY...
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| 00:14:30 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
BE SOMETHING, IF WE'RE WE'VE BEEN UNWILLING TO DO THAT THERE, WHY SHOULD WE BE WILLING TO DO IT HERE? >> WELL SIMPLY BECAUSE NUDE DANCING AND OTHER...
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| 00:14:57 |
Farrell, Peter - Student
THIS STATUTE AS ANY PARTICULAR MESSAGE KONG WOULD DISAGREE WITH. NOW SO STATUTES THAT ARE CAR GETTING NUDE DANCING FIGHTING WORDS, THOSE ARE TYPES OF...
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| 00:15:34 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
IN EVERY CONTEXT? MEANING YES WE HAVE BANNED SPEECH IN CERTAIN AREAS
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| 00:15:40 |
Farrell, Peter - Student
CERTAIN TIMES, CERTAIN TYPE OF SPEECH IN A CERTAIN LOCALE. BUT DO WE HAVE ANY CASE THAT HAS BANNED A METHOD
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| 00:15:49 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
OF SPEECH ALTOGETHER? >> ABSOLUTELY YOUR HONOR. >> WHICH ONE. >> TAXPAYERS FOR VINSON THE CITY OF LOS ANGELES REFUSED TO ALLOW CITIZENS TO DISSEMINATE...
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| 00:16:12 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
TO DO WHAT THEY WANTED TO
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| 00:16:14 |
Farrell, Peter - Student
DO. HERE, CONGRESS IS SAYING EVEN WITHIN A PRIVATE CONTRACT WE ARE BANNING THIS METHOD OF SPEECH ALTOGETHER. >> ACTUALLY YOUR HONOR I DISAGREE, CONGRESS...
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| 00:16:26 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
THE AMPLE ALTERNATIVE CHANNELS OF COMMUNICATION THAT THIS COURT REQUIRES -- >> THERE IS ALTERNATIVE CHANNELS FOR THE UNDERLYING CONTENT, BUT THERE'S...
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| 00:16:44 |
Farrell, Peter - Student
THE FACT THAT HE COULD SAY AUDIBLY WHATEVER IT IS SAYING,
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| 00:16:50 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
SHOOT, SCOWLING NOT THE SAME AS THE SUBLIMINAL SUGGESTION, AND THAT STRIKES ME A LITTLE DUCHBLT THAN OUR CASES WHERE WE HAVE SAID FOR EXAMPLE YOU CAN...
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| 00:17:24 |
Farrell, Peter - Student
MEN, HE COULD SAY IT IN THIS OTHER WAY, HE COULD SAY IT BY DOING BOTH. BUT IT WOULDN'T BE THE SAME THING AS IF HE SAID IT IN THAT PARTICULAR WAY WHICH...
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| 00:17:35 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
CHOSE, WHICH WAS THE USE OF THE AMBIGUITY. AND ISN'T THAT EXACTLY THIS SITUATION. OF COURSE YOU CAN DO IT BUT IT ISN'T THE SAME. >> I DON'T BELIEVE IT...
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| 00:18:04 |
Farrell, Peter - Student
IS ONLY TELLING THEM HOW TO SAY IT. AND AS ELIMINATED ONE NARROW. >> THAT IS END OF A SENTENCE. >> THANK YOU YOUR HONOR [LAUGHTER] [APPLAUSE] >>
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| 00:18:20 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
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| 00:18:21 |
Farrell, Peter - Student
MR. GOUMD WE WILL HEAR NOW FROM
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| 00:18:28 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
YOU. >>
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| 00:18:30 |
Farrell, Peter - Student
MR. CHIEF JUSTICE, AND MAY IT PLEASE THE COURT MY NAME IS JASON GOULD ALONG WITH COCOUNSELING PETER FARRELL ALSO REPRESENT THE PETITIONER IN THIS CASE...
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| 00:18:47 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
AMERICA. BILL ADDRESSING ISSUES TWO AND THREE TODAY, ISSUE TWO IS OF THE FEDERAL THREAT STATUTE 18 USC SECTION 875C, CONSTITUTIONAL EACH IF IS DOES...
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| 00:18:59 |
Gould, Jason - Student
OF SPECIFIC INTENT THE THE COURT SHOULD AFILM 13th CIRCUIT HOLD STATUTE COULD CONSTITUTIONAL ON FACE FOR TWO REASONS, FIRST THE FIRST AMENDMENT DOES...
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| 00:19:42 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
SOMEBODY HE SHOULD BE SHOT. HE IS GOING TO BE SHOT. IN OTHER WORDS, IT IS NOT CONVEYING AN IMMINENT IMMEDIATE THREAT THAT HE IS GOING TO CARRY OUT. IT...
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| 00:20:17 |
Gould, Jason - Student
SOMETHING THAT IS SPECIFIC AS TO THE PERSON THREATENINGED, THAT IT IS IMMEDIATE, THAT IT IS. >> IS IT THE WORDS? AREN'T THE WORDS IMPORTANT IN THAT CONTEXT...
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| 00:20:42 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
THREAT EXISTED, FOR EXAMPLE IF PERSON A, LET THATENS PERSON B, SAYS I'M GOING KILL 6 WEEKS FROM NOW THAT CERTAINLY DOESN'T MA I CAN THE THREAT ANY LESS...
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| 00:20:53 |
Gould, Jason - Student
THAT
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| 00:20:54 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
POINT THE PERSON TO WHOM THE THREATS
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| 00:20:56 |
Gould, Jason - Student
WERE ADDRESSED, WOULD STILL FEEL, AS IF BE PUT IN FEAR OF VIOLENCE, AND THAT PERSON'S LIFE WOULD BE DISRUPTED AS A RESULT OF THAT. >> BUT IF YOU SAY,...
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| 00:21:24 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
OF HARM AS A RTHOSE WORDS. >> SOME OF THESE THINGS, FOR KPAIN INSTANCE SCOWLING MUST PAY FOR WHAT HE'S DONE,
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| 00:21:31 |
Gould, Jason - Student
IS THAT SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN NOW? OR IS THAT A TRANSKREN DENTAL SUGGESTION TELL THAT GET HIS REWARD IN NOT GO TO HEAVEN? OR -- [LAUGHTER]...
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| 00:21:47 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
HE MIGHT REALIZE THE DEPTH OF HIS MISTAKE AND NEVER WRITE AGAIN? NOW -- THE TIME HAS COME I HAVE GOT MY GUN, SCOWLING SAID TWO SHOTS TO THE HEAD BUT...
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| 00:22:03 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
THAT AREN'T THAT SPECIFIC, BUT THE OTHERS CLEARLY ARE NOT AND SO I HAVE A SOMEWHAT FAROUT QUESTION, HOW DO WE KNOW WHAT THE JURY CONVICTED HIM OF?...
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| 00:22:33 |
Gould, Jason - Student
THE JURY VERDICT CANNOT
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| 00:22:35 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
STAND BECAUSE JURY MIGHT HAVE DECIDED ON BASES OF SOMETHING THAT IS CLEARLY NOT A THREAT. >> YO YOU ARE HONOR
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| 00:22:41 |
Gould, Jason - Student
IF I UNDERSTAND
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| 00:22:42 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
YOUR QUESTION PROP LERE JURY HERE DECIDED OBJECTIVE LISTENER WOULD HAVE BEEN PUT IN FEAR OF DPRAV BODILY HARM OR DEATH AS A RESULT OF THE WORDS THAT...
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| 00:23:01 |
Gould, Jason - Student
THREAT THAT IS THAT YOU CANNOT DO. >> WELL YOUR HONOR, THE RECORD IS A LITTLE BIT VAGUE AS TO WHAT EXACTLY THE JURY WAS CHARGED WITH IN THIS CASE, HOWEVER,...
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| 00:23:24 |
Gould, Jason - Student
LISTENER, AN OBJECTIVE LISTENER WOULDN'T KNOW THEY ARE HEARING ANYTHING WITH THE SUBLIMINAL MESSAGES. >> WELL YOUR HONOR -- >> AND SO IT SEEMS ODD ...
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| 00:23:41 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
THE MESSAGE IS SOMETHING THAT IS A LITTLE BIT UNCLEAR FROM THE SUBLIKE SUBLIMINAL MESSAGES INTERN AL IDESED ANY REASONABLE LISTENER WOULD
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| 00:23:50 |
Gould, Jason - Student
HAVE INTERNALIZEED MESSAGES
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| 00:23:52 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
THUS IN FEAR OF GREAT BODILY HARM OR DEATH AS A RESULT OF THEM. >> NOT
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| 00:23:55 |
Gould, Jason - Student
LISTENER. >> HE. >> THE PEOPLE HEARING IT WOULD INTERNALIZE, THE MESSAGES OF HOSTILITY, TO SKOULG, BUT SKOULG YOU KNOW, I SUPPOSE HE WOULD END UP, COMMITTING...
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| 00:24:15 |
Gould, Jason - Student
THE SUBLIMINAL MESSAGES
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| 00:24:16 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
HE WOULD IF IT WERE AN ACTUALLY MESSAGE IF SOMEONE PLAYING A RECORDING SAYING LETS YOU KNOW GO SHOOT SCOWLING, THAT MIGHT PUT HIM IN FEAR BUT A MESSAGE...
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| 00:24:52 |
Gould, Jason - Student
EXPECT, BUT -- [LAUGHTER] >> BUT I'M NOT SURE THAT THE SECOND CIRCUIT'S TEST EVEN IF IT IS A GOOD ONE IN GENERAL, MAKES MUCH SENSE, IN THE CONTEXT...
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| 00:25:03 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
MESSAGES. >> WELL. >> MAYBE WHY IT MAKES SENSE TO BAR SUBLIMINAL MESSAGES ALL TOGETHER, BUT, IF WE FIND THAT THAT IS NOT PERMITTED, HOW CAN WE APPLY...
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| 00:25:16 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
I THINK THE SECOND CIRCUIT'S TEST IS A GOOD TEST IT IS SUFFICIENTLY NARROWS OF THE DAY NIGS OF "THREAT" TO MAKE SURE THREATS ARE ONLY THOSE THAT ARE...
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| 00:25:24 |
Gould, Jason - Student
TO THE PERSON
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| 00:25:25 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
THREATENINGED IMMEDIATE, ON UNEQUIVOCAL UNCONDITIONAL THE FACT MESSAGES WERE SUBLIMINAL, DOESN'T NECESSARILY MATTER FIRST BECAUSE THEY WERE EVENTUALLY...
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| 00:25:36 |
Gould, Jason - Student
FROM THE THEY WERE TAP OFF THE SUBLIMINAL OR THEY WERE REMAINED SUBLIMINAL BUT THEY WERE EVENTUALLY REVEALED. >> YOU SAID IS IT -- A CONSTITUTIONALLY...
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| 00:26:03 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
SAY WELL, HE DIDN'T SAY IT PUBLICLY HIMSELF, IT IS NOW PUBLIC SO NOW HE IS GUILTY OF -- >> WELL YOUR HONOR UNDERESHSEX 875C SPECIFICALLY THE GOVERNMENT...
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| 00:26:22 |
Gould, Jason - Student
MISTAKES, INADVERTENT STATEMENTS JOKING
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| 00:26:24 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
POLITICAL HYPERBOLE SOCIAL COMMENTARY REMAIN CONSISTENTLY PROTECTED SPEECH, THE SECOND HE WILLMENT OF THE
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| 00:26:30 |
Gould, Jason - Student
CRIME WOULD THEN BE WHETHER OR NOT COMMUNICATION CONTAINED A TRUE THREAT AND THE THIRD ELEMENT WOULD BE WHETHER OR NOT THE THREAT WAS ONE OF INJURY OR...
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| 00:27:12 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
IN PERCEIVEED THE MESSAGE TO BE, HOWEVER THERE IS AN ADDITIONAL FACTOR THAT A REASONABLE SPEAKER, WOULD NEED
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| 00:27:18 |
Gould, Jason - Student
TO FORESEE THE
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| 00:27:19 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
HARM THAT RESULTED TO THE LISTENER IN A THAT CONTEXT SO THERE IS A SLIGHT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO, AND TO EXTENT -- >> WHAT IF IF -- STATUTE INDICATES
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| 00:27:28 |
Gould, Jason - Student
THAT IT IS THE TRANSMISSION OF A TRUE THREAT, THAT IS BEING MADE ILLEGAL, WHY ISN'T WHAT THE SPEAKERS INTENT TO SOME EXTENT WHETHER YOU DEFINE IT SPECIFIC...
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| 00:27:47 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
LISTENER HERE THERE IS NO IN INCITEMENT AS CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS POINTED OUT BEFORE HAS NO DEMANDING REQUIREMENTS, SPECIFICALLY --? IF WE LOOK AT...
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| 00:28:04 |
Gould, Jason - Student
NEITHER. THE ONLY INTERNT REQUIRED UNDER SECTION 875C IS THE INTENT TO PLACE THE MESSAGE IN INTERSTATE COMMERCIAL, ONCE THE MESSAGE IS TRANSKNITTED...
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| 00:28:24 |
Gould, Jason - Student
ONCE YOU HAVE PUT IT IN INTERSTATE COMMERCE IS IT SOMETHING WHICH A REASONABLE SPEAKER WOULD TREAT AS INTENDING TO SCARE OR INTENDING TO HARM? >> AGAIN,...
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| 00:28:44 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
REASONABLE LISTENER WOULD HAVE BEEN -- >> I UNDERSTAND, YOU ARE PUSHING THE REASONABLE LISTENER TEST OF THE SECOND CIRCUIT. BUT SUPPOSE WE DON'T BUY...
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| 00:28:57 |
Gould, Jason - Student
A CONSTITUTIONALLY PERMISSIBLE PROHIBITABLE THREAT IT MUST HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE SPEAKER. AND THAT TOO COULD BE AN
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| 00:29:07 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
OBJECTIVE TEST BUT I WANT TO KNOW IS WHETHER THE SPEAKER OR THIS OBJECTIVE SPEAKER WOULD TAKE THIS AS SOMETHING THAT THREATENED TO HARM OR THREATENED...
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| 00:29:41 |
Gould, Jason - Student
YOUR HONOR ONCE WHEN SOMEBODY A REASONABLE PERSON
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| 00:29:45 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
INTERNALIZEES MESSAGES, THE
|
| 00:29:47 |
Gould, Jason - Student
JUST BECAUSE BY VIRTUE OF THE FACT SUBLIMINAL DOESN'T MAKE IT ANY LESS MENACING THE THREAT TO HARM STILL -- >> BUT IF THE PERSON WHO MADE IT SUBLIMINAL...
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| 00:30:02 |
Gould, Jason - Student
DO HARM, IF OTHER PEOPLE THEN DID IT AGAIN YOU HAVE THE PROBLEM OF INCITEMENT BUT IT MIGHT BE INTENDED TO DO HARM, HOW CAN IT BE INTENDED TO SCARE...
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| 00:30:16 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
PERSON WHO IS MEANT TO BE SCARED? >> YOUR HONOR I THINK CHARACTERIZATION THAT YOU ARE MAKING ABOUT SUBLIMINAL MESSAGES WHETHER OR NOT THE SPEAKERED...
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| 00:30:39 |
Gould, Jason - Student
TEST IS BETTERP THAT THE SPEAKER TEST. >> THAT IS EXACTLY IT WOULD LIKE TO SAY. [LAUGHTER] >> WELL, I DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT APPROACH THOUGH BECAUSE,...
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| 00:30:56 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
MUSIC, IT IS ONLY THE REACTION OF OTHERS, TO
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| 00:31:02 |
Gould, Jason - Student
THE SUBLIMINAL MESSAGE THAT CAUSES A THREAT TO
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| 00:31:05 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
THE RECIPIENT. IT IS NOT THE MESSAGE ITSELF. THE MESSAGE AS SPOKEN BY THE SPEAKER IS MEANINGLESS TO THE LISTENER, IN OTHER WORDS, WHEN SCOWLING SITS...
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| 00:31:54 |
Gould, Jason - Student
THE ONLY PERSON WHO IS GOING TO FEEL THREATENED IS SCOWLING, IT CERTAINLY IS NOT GOING TO BE THE LISTENERS OF THE MUSIC BECAUSE THEY THERE IS NO THREAT...
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| 00:32:13 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
WE GO BACK TO JUSTICE ROBERTS' QUESTION WHICH IS THE INTENT IS NOT TO HARM OR NOT TO PLACE AT RISK THE RECIPIENTS OF THIS MESSAGE, IT MAY BE TO PUT ...
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| 00:32:55 |
Gould, Jason - Student
ME JUST TRY TO -- SUPPOSE I SAY TO YOU, KNOWING THAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND ITALIAN -- [SPEAKING IN ITALIAN] I WANT TO KILL IF YOU YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND...
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| 00:33:18 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
YOU? >> I'M SAYING SOMETHING YOU COULD READ THAT AS I WANT TO EMBRACE YOU. RATHER THAN I WANT TO KILL YOU. >> WELL YOUR HONOR AGAIN. >> IS THAT A THREAT....
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| 00:33:40 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
HONOROR THAT WOULD BE, I SEE I'M OUT OF TIME MAY I HAVE A MOMENT. >> YOU FINISH YOUR ANSWER, YES. >> YOUR HONOR IT WOULD BE
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| 00:33:46 |
Gould, Jason - Student
A REASONABLE
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| 00:33:47 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
RECIPIENT FAMILIAR
|
| 00:33:48 |
Gould, Jason - Student
WITH THE CONTEXT AND THE CIRCUMSTANCES AT ISSUE THIS, THAT WOULD DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THE THREAT WAS ONE OF HARM. I THANK THE COURT TO VERY MUCH FOR...
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| 00:33:58 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
TIME [APPLAUSE] >>
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| 00:34:00 |
Gould, Jason - Student
|
| 00:34:04 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
|
| 00:34:06 |
Gould, Jason - Student
WE WILL HEAR FROM RESPONDENTS. >> MR. CHIEF JUSTICE, AND MAY IT PLEASE THE COURT. MY NAME IS CHRISTOPHER DOUGHERTY ALONG WITH MY COCOUNSEL DENNIS DeANGELO...
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| 00:34:33 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
AND MY COCOUNSEL WILL BE ARGUING ISSUES TWO AND THREE. YOUR HONORS, THIS CASE IS ABOUT THE EXTENT TO WHICH, A SPEAKER
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| 00:34:41 |
Dougherty, Chris - Student
MAY FREELY CHOOSE THE MEANS OF EXPRESSING HIS MESSAGES. THIS COURT SHOULD AFFIRM THE 13th CIRCUIT COURT OF APPEALS JUDGMENT THAT 18 USC SECTION 9231...
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| 00:35:21 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
MESSAGE HOWEVER. >> ISN'T THIS ONE OF THEM? >> CASES >> YOUR HONOR YES, IT IS BUT THE FACT THAT THE STATUTE AS THE GOVERNMENT CONCEDES EVEN APPLIES IN...
|
| 00:35:34 |
Dougherty, Chris - Student
A SUBLIMINAL MESSAGE IS BEING CONVEYED MAY EVEN KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THE SUBLIMINAL MESSAGE IS >> DO WE HAVE TO SAY THAT? THAT IS, WE COULD READ
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| 00:35:43 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
THE
|
| 00:35:44 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
STATUTE, TO SAY THAT IT IS ONLY
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| 00:35:46 |
Dougherty, Chris - Student
SUBLIMINAL, IF THE SPEAKER HAS NOT MADE PEOPLE AWARE OF IT. SUBLIMINAL AFTER ALL IS UNCERTAIN TERM AND IF WE READ IT MORE BROADLY THAN THAT IT MIGHT...
|
| 00:36:00 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
VAGUE SO IF A PERSON SAID I AM MAKING A SUBLIMINAL STATEMENT, IF NO LONGER IS SUBLIMINAL ISN'T THAT THE ANSWER? AT LEAST, YOUR CLIENT SHOULD HAVE...
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| 00:36:41 |
Dougherty, Chris - Student
ITSELF, AND IT DEFINES A SUBLIMINAL MESSAGE AND SAYS ONE DESIGNED TO PASS BELOW THE LIMITS OF AT YOUIBLE PERCEPTION, OR TO CONVEY OR IMPLANT A MESSAGE
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| 00:36:51 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
WITHOUT THE DETECTION
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| 00:36:52 |
Dougherty, Chris - Student
OR AWARENESS OF THE LISTENER. WHY DO YOU ASSUME THAT THAT LAST CLAUSE ONLY APPLIES TO CONVEY OR IMPLANT
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| 00:36:58 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
A MESSAGE AND NOT ALSO PASS BELOW THE LIMITS OF AUDIBLE PERCEPTION? >> YOUR -- >> IN OTHER WORDS EACH OF THE DEFINITIONS HAVE TO BE UNDER TAKEN WITHOUT...
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| 00:37:24 |
Dougherty, Chris - Student
READ IT AS
|
| 00:37:25 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
BROADLY AS YOU SUGGEST, AND IF THERE IS A POSSIBILITY OF READING IT MORE NARROWLY, SHOULDN'T WE UNDER THE
|
| 00:37:33 |
Dougherty, Chris - Student
TRADITIONAL DOCTRINE OF AVOIDING CONSTITUTIONAL PROBLEMS READ IT MORE NARROWLY, SAYING THAT
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| 00:37:39 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
READING IT IS CONSTITUTIONAL AND IF CONGRESS REALLY WANTS TO COME BACK AND TELL US THAT IT IS BROADER IT CAN DO SO AND THEN WE WILL DECIDE THE CONSTITUTIONALITY...
|
| 00:38:09 |
Dougherty, Chris - Student
HIDE THE FACT THAT HE IS EXPRESSING SUBLIMINALLY. >> WELL IN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES, THERE MAY BE WAYS IN WHICH HE SIMPLY CAN'T EXPRESS THE FACT THAT...
|
| 00:38:23 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
MUSIC, AND IN MUSIC THERE, MAY BE CIRCUMSTANCES, WHERE A SOMEONE WHO IS WRITING A SONG CAN CHANGE CAN CHANGE THE KEY, IN ORDER TO CONVEY
|
| 00:38:33 |
Dougherty, Chris - Student
MORE OR LESS INTENSITY. NOW, THAT WOULD. >> BUT WE WOULD HEAR THE CHANGE OF KEY. >> THAT IS TRUE BUT HERE THE LISTENER DID HEAR THE
|
| 00:38:41 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
PERCUSSIVE
|
| 00:38:42 |
Dougherty, Chris - Student
PUNCHINS, AND THIS CASE THE SONG IN PROEM PROCLAMATION MR. STEPHENS IS USING THE SUBLIMINAL MESSAGES TO EXPRESS A FEELING OF ANGER -- >> NOW YOU ARE...
|
| 00:38:56 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
WOULD BE UNCONSTITUTIONAL
|
| 00:38:58 |
Dougherty, Chris - Student
AS APPLIED BUT IN THE CASE BEFORE US, IT WOULD BE IF WE GO DOWN THIS LINE BEING ABLE TO STATING THAT THERE ARE SUBLIMINAL MESSAGES, WOULD BE ENOUGH...
|
| 00:39:13 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
THERE WOULDN'T BE A PROBLEM WHY STRIKE THE STATUTE DOWN WE'LL TAKE CARE OF THE MUSIC CASE WHEN IT COMES UP. >> BECAUSE JUSTICE DAY WILL BRESI THIS COURT...
|
| 00:39:39 |
Dougherty, Chris - Student
COURT DECIDED JOLG JUNK MAIL IN ROEN VERSUS U.S. POST OFFICE DEPARTMENT, CONGRESS PASSED A STATUTE THAT ALLOWED A PARTICULAR HOMEOWNER, TO DECIDE THAT...
|
| 00:40:58 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
OUT IT IS THE HARMFUL IMPACT OF UNCONSENTED, MESSAGES THAT CONGRESS WAS TRYING TO ADDRESS. >> THAT IS TRUE YOUR HONOR BUT UNDER OVERBREADTH DOCTRINE,...
|
| 00:41:26 |
Dougherty, Chris - Student
THIS PROHIBITS THOSE AND THAT IS WHY WE SHOULD PROHIBIT ITS APPLICATION TO YOU AS WELL. >> THAT IS TRUE AND THE GOVERNMENT SEEMS TO HAVE CONCEDED THAT...
|
| 00:41:36 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
WANT TO HEAR A TAPE THAT TELLS THEM TO QUIT SMOKING IN THIS CASE PEOPLE -- >> THAT DOES SEEM TO BE WHAT THE GOVERNMENT DID. >> YES. >>. >> THE QUESTION...
|
| 00:41:51 |
Dougherty, Chris - Student
WELL YOUR HONOR IN THAT CASE, THE ARTIST STILL SHOULD HAVE SOME SORT OF MEANS BY WHICH
|
| 00:42:01 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
TO EXPRESS
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| 00:42:02 |
Dougherty, Chris - Student
HIMSELF SUBLIMINALLY AGAIN IN THIS CONTEXT MR.
|
| 00:42:05 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
STEVENS, IS USING A SONG, AND THE ONLY WAY IN WHICH HE COULD CONVEY THIS FEELINGS ABOUT MR.
|
| 00:42:12 |
Dougherty, Chris - Student
SCOWL'S WORKS WAS THROUGH THIS SONG, WHERE IN THE AUDIBLE LYRICS? YOU ARE SUGGESTING THAT THIS IS COVERED BY RIGHT OF AESTHETIC EXPRESSION, BUT IS THE...
|
| 00:43:08 |
Dougherty, Chris - Student
LISTENER, THAT IS WHAT IS PROBLEMATIC ABOUT THIS CASE, THAT THE MODE OF EXPRESSION IS DESIGNED TO DECEIVE THE LISTENER, TO MAKE THEM THINK THINGS THEY...
|
| 00:43:25 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
IN THIS CASE, MR. STEVE EBS IS USING THE SUBLIMINAL MESSAGES TO DEMONSTRATE A LAYER OF ANGEE THAT RUPGS-UNDER-UNDER THE MORE REASONED A MUDIBLE CRITIQUE...
|
| 00:43:44 |
Dougherty, Chris - Student
WELL, POSSIBLY BUT HE THE WAY HE THE WAY IN WHICH HE IS DOING IT PERCUSSIVE NATURE OF THE PUNCHINS ARE ALSO THAT WHICH IS WHAT LISTENER ACTUALLY HEARS....
|
| 00:43:57 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
MUSIC OR WHEN WE LOOK AT ART, WE MAY HAVE A PSYCHOLOGICAL RESPONSE, AS WELL AS WE APED ME ONE, THAT IS PART OF OUR
|
| 00:44:05 |
Dougherty, Chris - Student
KNOWLEDGE. WE ARE WE ARE AS AWARE OF THE, AS WE ARE AWARE THAT STRAWBERRIES CAN CAUSE
|
| 00:44:14 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
HIVES THINGS GENERALLY NONE ABOUT THAT. HERE INSTEAD -- MAYBE NOT -- >> LEARN SOMETHING EVERY DAY. >> EVERY DAY. >> LEARN SOMETHING EVERY DAY. THAT...
|
| 00:44:41 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
WHICH WE DON'T ACCEPT AS A
|
| 00:44:44 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
GIVE. >> WELL JUSTICE WE ARE NOT CONTENDING THAT THERE IS NEVER GOING TO BE A HARM DISCIPLINE MESSAGES CERTAINLY -- THEY COULD CONTAIN AS LOWER COURT...
|
| 00:45:06 |
Dougherty, Chris - Student
A LISTENER IS SUBJECTED TO CERTAIN KINDS OF MESSAGES WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT, OR WITHOUT THEIR AWARENESS. HOWEVER, THAT THE -- SPEAKER STILL NEEDS TO...
|
| 00:45:48 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
PROTECTED WHEN THE WAY YOU ARE GOING TO EXPRESS IT IS TO INCITE THOUSANDS MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WITH HATRED TOWARD A PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL EVEN TELLING...
|
| 00:46:05 |
Dougherty, Chris - Student
SOMEONE MY WAY
|
| 00:46:06 |
Dougherty, Chris - Student
OF EXPRESSING MYSELF IS
|
| 00:46:08 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
TO FILL PEOPLE WITH HATRED DIRECTED TOWARD A PARTICULAR PERSON? >> WELL MR. CHIEF JUSTICE FIRST OF ALL WE CONTEND THAT AS THE GOVERNMENT EXPERTS TESTIFIED...
|
| 00:46:33 |
Dougherty, Chris - Student
USING THE SUBLIMINAL PUNCH-INS TO EXPRESS ANGER WHICH HE PERHAPS FEELS THAT HE CAN'T BRING OUT INTO THE AUDIBLE LYRICS OF THE SONG A MORE REASONED CRITIQUE...
|
| 00:47:08 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
ACCORDING TO THE TESTIMONY EFFECTIVE, AND MR. STEPHENS WOULD NOT KNOW ENOUGH TO ANSWER IT. WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO DO WHAT HE IS DOING HERE, AND COME...
|
| 00:47:45 |
Dougherty, Chris - Student
FURTHERMORE, FURTHERMORE THIS COURT HAS AS I SAID IN THE PAST LOOKED DOWN UPON -- LOOKED UNKINDLY UPON STATUTES THAT DON'T PROVIDE FOR THE LISTENER'S...
|
| 00:48:36 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
COULD HAVE ESSENTIALLY MADE THE ENTIRE ALBUM COVER A BRIEF SYNOPSIS OF THAT -- >> WELL, I SAVED THIS QUESTION FOR YOUR COLLEAGUE WHY DLNT HAS TO BE...
|
| 00:48:51 |
Dougherty, Chris - Student
INCLUDED, MORE THAN MERELY EXPRESSING HIMSELF. >> JUSTICE UNFORTUNATELY MR. STEVEES EXERCISED HIS RIGHT NOT TO TESTIFY AT TRIAL SO THERE IS NO WAY ON...
|
| 00:49:04 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
WARNING LAB ON IT THE PROBLEM WITH THIS STATUTE IS THAT AS IT IS DRAWN, AND AS THE GOVERNMENT CONTENDS IS THE PROPER INTERPRETATION A WARNING LABEL...
|
| 00:49:16 |
Dougherty, Chris - Student
STATUTE. AND FOR THESE REASONS, YOUR HONOR, THE COURT SHOULD STRIKE DOWN 18 USC SECTION 9231 AS UNCONSTITUTIONAL. >> THANK YOU COUNSEL [APPLAUSE] >>...
|
| 00:49:45 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
DENNIS DeANGELO I REPRESENT THE RESPONDENT RICHARD STEPHENS, YOUR HONOR THE GOVERNMENT. >> MAY I REPEATEDLY SAID THAT CONTEXT IS WHAT DEFINES THREAT....
|
| 00:49:59 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
MERE SUBLIMINAL MAKING OF A
|
| 00:50:01 |
D'Angelo, Dennis - Student
SUBLIMINAL MESSAGE THAT REFERENCES SHOOTING SOMEONE ENOUGH FOR ANY JURY TO CONCLUDE THAT THIS WAS A
|
| 00:50:11 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
THREAT? >> WHETHER THEY USE THE CORRECT STANDARD, THE RIGHT STANDARD, OR NO STANDARD? MEANING UNDER EVERY STANDARD BEING SUGGESTED SPECIFIC INTENT GENERAL...
|
| 00:50:33 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
ENOUGH FOR THE OUTCOME IN THIS CASE TO BE THE SAME? >> WELL, YOUR HONOR, THERE ARE A COUPLE REASONS, WHY THE MERE FACT THIS WAS EXPRESSED SUBLIMINALLY...
|
| 00:50:56 |
D'Angelo, Dennis - Student
IN MY MIND. >> ABSOLUTELY YOUR HONOR WE AGREE, THAT THIS IS CAUSTIC EXPRESSION NOT NICE THINGS MR. STEVE ENS SAID BUT AS THE EXPERTS TESTIFIED AT TRIAL,...
|
| 00:51:10 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
TIME HAS COME, I GOT MY GUN. >> YES YOUR HONOR ABSOLUTELY
|
| 00:51:13 |
D'Angelo, Dennis - Student
THESE WERE SHARP
|
| 00:51:15 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
CAUSTIC MESSAGES SHARP CAUSTIC
|
| 00:51:17 |
D'Angelo, Dennis - Student
MESSAGES THAT EXPRESSED POLITICAL DISAGREEMENT WITH ANOTHER PARTY AS THESE MURDERSS DO. >> BUT THE OUT DO IT SUBLIMINALLY SO WHY SHOULDN'T WE IN THIS...
|
| 00:51:30 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
STRIKE
|
| 00:51:32 |
D'Angelo, Dennis - Student
DOWN SECTION 9231, BUT SAY THAT THREATS THAT ARE SUBLIMINAL CAN BE PUNISHED AND CAN BE
|
| 00:51:44 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
PUNISHED, UNDER 875. EVEN BEYOND WHAT OPEN THREATS CAN BE? >> I MEAN THAT IS THE WAY TO DEAL WITH PROBLEMS OF THIS SORT. >> ABSOLUTELY YOUR HONOR, TRUE...
|
| 00:52:14 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
SAID THIS OUT LOUD, AND NOT SUBLIMINALLY,
|
| 00:52:17 |
D'Angelo, Dennis - Student
YOUR CASE WOULD BE STRONG. BUT WHAT MAKES IT FAR MORE THREATENING IS THE FACT THAT IT IS DONE SUBLIMINALLY PEOPLE DON'T KNOW THAT THEY ARE BEING THEIR...
|
| 00:52:28 |
D'Angelo, Dennis - Student
THIS WAY, SO EVEN
|
| 00:52:29 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
IF YOU MIGHT BE RIGHT THE LANGUAGE ITSELF WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT SAY THAT IS NOT A TRUE THREAT, NOBODY REALLY THINKS STEVENS IS GOING TO GO GET A GUN AND...
|
| 00:53:08 |
D'Angelo, Dennis - Student
SENT THAT ARE ON THE EDGE OF WHAT WOULD BE A THREAT. AND NOT BE FRIGHTENED BY THE SAME THING SAID OPENLY. >> BUT OF COURSE YOUR HONOR A SUBJECTIVE RECIPIENT...
|
| 00:53:21 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
KNOW THEY ARE RECEIVING SUBLIMINAL MESSAGES. >> NO BUT THEY MIGHT WELL SAY WHENEVER THOSE ARE THERE, I WOULD BE FRIGHTENED. WHILE OBJECTIVE SPEAKER...
|
| 00:53:36 |
D'Angelo, Dennis - Student
THAT COULD CONS -- CONSTITUTIONALLY BE PROHIBITED IF HE INTENDED IT SUBLIMINALLY, AND THEREFORE HAVING AN EFFECT THAT IS NOT CLEAR AND
|
| 00:53:45 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
NOT KNOWN, EVEN IF HE WERE EXPRESSING IT OPENLY THAT WOULD NOT QUALIFY. >> IF YOU WERE TO SAY RULE FOR THE RESPONDENTS, WE WOULD TAKE MAYBE WE WILL...
|
| 00:54:13 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
AGAIN, THERE'S A GREAT DEAL OF IMPORTANCE ON THE FACT THESE MESSAGES AREN'T IN ANY WAY COERCIVE EVEN IF MESSAGES PUT IDEA IN THE RECIPIENT'S HEAD THE...
|
| 00:54:24 |
D'Angelo, Dennis - Student
HAVE ON THE RECIPIENT
|
| 00:54:25 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
WOULD BE THE SAME AS IF THE
|
| 00:54:27 |
D'Angelo, Dennis - Student
HE RECIPIENT WERE TO RECEIVE THEM PURELY AUDIBLY. >> NOT
|
| 00:54:31 |
D'Angelo, Dennis - Student
CORERSIVE IN SENSE PEOPLE TURN INTO DOM BEES GOING TO KILL SCOWLING RIGHT AWAY YOU ABOUT STRARD NARROWLY COERCEIVE TO HAVE POWER TO PUT IDEA IN SOMEONE'S...
|
| 00:54:53 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
AGO, SUBLIMINAL MESSAGES OF POPCORN AT MOVIE THEATRES WAUT WAS OUTLOUD BECAUSE IF YOU HAVE EVER BEEN ON DIET TRIED TO RESIST, FOOD, YOU UNDERSTAND YOU...
|
| 00:55:10 |
D'Angelo, Dennis - Student
BE COERCIVE MAY NOT FORCE ME TO DO
|
| 00:55:13 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
SOMETHING I DON'T ALREADY WANT TO DO, BUT IT ISN'T THE FEAR THAT IT WILL ASSIST IN GIVING ME LICENSE TO DO WHAT I WANT? >> WELL YOUR HONOR EVEN IF...
|
| 00:55:43 |
D'Angelo, Dennis - Student
ENTHAT MR. STEPHENS SHOULD BE PROHIBITED FROM ADVOCATING, REACTION OR POSITION AGAINST MR. SCOWLING. >> SO WOULD IT BE ALL RIGHT FOR HIM TO SAY SOMEONE
|
| 00:55:56 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
OUT THERE JUDGE JUSTICE ROBERTS, EXAMPLE EARLIER, WOULD NOT BE A THREAT IF HE SAID I WANT SOMEONE OUT THERE, TO KILL SCOWLING. >> IF ANYTHING YOUR HONOR...
|
| 00:56:12 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
DEMANDED A MUCH STRONGER TEST IF YOU ARE LOOK AT THE FACTS ON THIS CASE, NO VIOLENCE HAS OCCURRED TOWARDS MR. SCOWLING, THIS MESSAGE HAS BEEN OUT FOR...
|
| 00:56:26 |
D'Angelo, Dennis - Student
DECIPHERED PLAYED ON RADIO THIS FAR NOTHING HAS HAPPENED TO MR. SCOWLING DOES NOT SEEM FROM THE FACTS BEFORE US HERE THAT IMMINENT LAWLESSNESS IS LIKELY...
|
| 00:57:15 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
CLIENT, COULDN'T HAVE KNOWN THAT IF AT THE TIME HE ACTED SO THAT THERE MIGHT BE A VAGUENESS PROBLEM, THERE MIGHT BE A PROBLEM THAT WOULD LET YOUR CLIENT...
|
| 00:58:01 |
D'Angelo, Dennis - Student
AND OR UNDER CIRCUIT TREATMENTS OF TRUE THREATS A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT CASESES. >> ONLY IF WE ACCEPT YOUR WORKING PROPOSITION, THAT THE METHOD OF DELIVERY...
|
| 00:58:25 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
THREAT THIS SPEECH WAS PRODUCED IN A -- >> SO REASONABLE SPEAKER, AND/OR A REASONABLE
|
| 00:58:31 |
D'Angelo, Dennis - Student
LISTENER KNOWS THAT MESSAGES CAN ENCOURAGE OR NUDGE THOSE PREDISPOSED TOWARDS VIOLENCE TO DOING IT. WHY COULDN'T THAT SPEAKER CHOOSE TO INTERPRET...
|
| 00:58:49 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
HONOR WE SUBMIT THAT A REASONABLE SPEAKER WOULD NOT INTERPRET THESE WORDS AS DOING JUST, THAT THESE WORDS ARE A RESPONSE TO A POSITION PUT FRRTH BY...
|
| 00:59:09 |
D'Angelo, Dennis - Student
MR. SCOWLING MAY HAVE DONE SOME BAD THINGS, TOO, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU CAN THREATEN TO KILL HIM. >> NO IT DOESN'T MEAN A CUP THREATEN TO KILL MIM...
|
| 00:59:25 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
POSITIONS ESPOUSEED BY MR. SCOWLING, AND THIS LANGUAGE HERE SIMPLY WOULDN'T LEAD A ROPEABLE SPEAKER TO THINK THAT -- A REASONABLE SPEAKER TO THINK THAT...
|
| 00:59:34 |
D'Angelo, Dennis - Student
PUT RECIP YEBT IN FEAR OF BODILY HARM HEATED EXCHANGES. >> WHY DIDN'T HE JUST SAY IT? IF HE DIDN'T INTEND THIS TO CAUSE THORM SCOWLING, WHY THE PUNCH-IN...
|
| 00:59:59 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
SAY SOME THINGS AUDIBLY AND CHOOSE OH, TO SAY SOME THINGS SUBLIMINALLY, THAT IS HIS RIGHT TO EXPRESS HIMSELF IN THE MANNER HE CHOOSES TO. >> AND THIS...
|
| 01:00:13 |
D'Angelo, Dennis - Student
BEFORE, YOUR CLIENT KNOWS THAT ON ITS FACE THE LAW PROHIBITS SUBLIMINAL MESSAGE, NOW THAT LAW MAY BE UNCONSTITUTIONAL, AND HE IS CLAIMING IT IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL...
|
| 01:00:27 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
ALSO KNOWS WHAT THE LAWS IS A THREAT, MAKE WHAT HE SAID COME MIGHTY CLOSE TO BEING PROHIBITED AND CONSTITUTIONALLY PROHIBITED. YOU KNOW, ALL UP CERTAIN...
|
| 01:01:31 |
D'Angelo, Dennis - Student
LIMITS DRIVE 80 MILES AN HOUR DOWN THE HIGHWAY. WELL, YOU ARE GOING TO GET A TICKET AND YOU CAN SAY BUT I WAS JUST EXPRESSING MYSELF ALL YOU WANT IT...
|
| 01:01:42 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
AS HE CHOOSES GOES TOO FAR. >> YOUR HONOR YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT I THINK THE DIFFERENCE REALLY COMES DOWN TO MATTER OF WHAT'S BEING EXPRESSED HERE...
|
| 01:02:04 |
D'Angelo, Dennis - Student
HE GET OFF -- WELL JUST EXPRESSING POLITICAL OPPOSITION TO MR. SCOWLING'S VIEWS THAT IS NOT THE CASE HERE, THE CASE HERE IS MR. STEVE, EXPRESSING HIMSELF...
|
| 01:02:38 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
WORDS ARE UNDERSTOOD EVEN IF THEY ARE INSOY INSINUATEED TO PERSONS' MINDS THEY ARE UNDERSTOOD AS WORDS NOT UNDERSTOOD AS CONDUCT THE FACT THEY ARE UNDERSTOOD...
|
| 01:02:57 |
D'Angelo, Dennis - Student
ON WHAT HE IS SAYING HERE. AS A REASONABLE SPEAKER, MR. STEVENS COULD NOT REASONABLY EXPECT THAT PEOPLE WOULD FOLLOW THIS WORDS OR THAT MR. SCOWLING...
|
| 01:03:44 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
ME THAT I MIGHT TAKE IT MORES SERIOUSLY, CONTEXT IS ALL IMPORTANT THAN WE KEEP GOING BACK TO THAT POINT, AND I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU HAVEN'T ANSWERED...
|
| 01:04:24 |
D'Angelo, Dennis - Student
HAVING THEMSELVES INVADED WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE. >> YOUR HONOR EVEN A TRANSTRIE MOM TRIE FEAR IS NOT ENOUGH TO JUST MY RESTRIKING ALL OF THE SPEECH, UNDER...
|
| 01:04:35 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
AMENDMENT, MOM TRIE EMOTIONAL. >> WE ARE NOT RESTREAKING ALL SPEECH WE ARE RESTRICTING THIS RESTRICTING THIS SPEECH A THREAT STATUTE. >> YES YOUR HONOR...
|
| 01:04:48 |
D'Angelo, Dennis - Student
WOULD BE TOO MUCH IN DENYING MR. STEVE ERPS RIGHT TO EXPRESS HIS POSITION, POLITICSLY, THANK YOUR HONOR. >> THANK YOU
|
| 01:04:58 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
COUNSEL
|
| 01:05:03 |
D'Angelo, Dennis - Student
|
| 01:05:06 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
|
| 01:05:07 |
D'Angelo, Dennis - Student
THE DIE AM DUALITY OF SPEECH AT ISSUE AS COUNCIL FOR
|
| 01:05:18 |
Farrell, Peter - Student
MR. STEVEES MENTIONED QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER PARTICULAR WORDS CAN HAVE MULTIPLE MEANS, THOSE THE DUAL MEANINGS OF MUSIC OR SPEECH IS PROTECTED UNDERESH...
|
| 01:06:20 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
STATUTES ON ITS FACE. >> WOULD YOU REGARD THESE THIS LANGUAGE, AS A THREAT THAT COULD
|
| 01:06:27 |
Farrell, Peter - Student
BE PROSECUTED IF IT WERE NOT SUBLIMINAL. >> YES YOUR HONOR. >> SAME CONTENT BUT YOU HAD AIBLE >> ABSOLUTELY WE DO YOUR HONOR BECAUSE AS JUSTICE RECOGNIZED...
|
| 01:06:42 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
HIS SPEECH BEYOND THE PALE, NOW A JURY AGREED HERE, JURY SAID STANDARDS OF OUR SOCIETY DEMONSTRATE
|
| 01:06:49 |
Farrell, Peter - Student
THAT THIS SPEECH IS NOT MERELY DISAGREEMENT. >>
|
| 01:06:51 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
PLAYING AN ALL OR
|
| 01:06:52 |
Farrell, Peter - Student
NOTHING GAME COUNSEL. >> WELL. >> PUSHING US ON BOTH COUNTS, TO SAY WE AREERING WITH YOU OR AGAINST YOU, AS AGAINST THE POSSIBILITY OF DECIDING FOR...
|
| 01:07:12 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
WE BELIEVE BOTH
|
| 01:07:13 |
Farrell, Peter - Student
ARE CONS -- CONSTITUTIONALLY SOUND
|
| 01:07:15 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
THE STATEMENTS IS THAT MR. STEVENS MADE HERE, WERE FAR DISTINCT FROM THE STATEMENTS THAT WERE INCLUDEED ON THE SUPERPORTION OF HIS RECORDING ABLE TO...
|
| 01:07:30 |
Farrell, Peter - Student
YOU. -- 53, CONGRESS'S CONCERNING IS TO PROTECT LISTENER FROM. >> IT WASN'T I'M GOING TO KILL YOU 5 TIMES THE OTHERS WERE HE IS NOT GOING TO -- 5 TIMES,...
|
| 01:07:56 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
THAT. CONGRESS IS CONCERNED HERE WAS THE VEER VERY BALANCE ASSAULT OF THE SPEECH WITH RESPECT TO SECTION 9231 MANNER OF SPEECH WITH RESPECT TO SECTION...
|
| 01:08:11 |
Farrell, Peter - Student
TO MR. STEVENS THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. >> THANK YOU COUNSEL [APPLAUSE] THIS COURT STANDS IN RECESS. >>
|
| 01:08:35 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
MAY I ON YOUR BEHALF SAY AGAIN HOW PROUD WE ARE OF THESE FOUR YOUNG GENTLEMEN. [APPLAUSE] >>
|
| 01:09:01 |
Lawrence, Frederick - Dean
I THINK THESE SUBLIMINAL MESSAGES THAT I TOOK AWAY IS THAT I WOULD HIRE ANY ONE OF THESE FOUR TO REPRESENT MY INTERESTS IN COURT, AND DO SO WITH GREAT...
|
| 01:09:24 |
Lawrence, Frederick - Dean
STAGE FOR THE AWARDS CEREMONY AS WONDERFUL AS THIS DAY IS IT IS REALLY ONLY ONE PIECE OF WHAT HAS BEEN A RARBLG -- REMARKABLE YEAR IN THE MOOT COURT...
|
| 01:13:49 |
Calabresi, Guido - Judge
OF APPEALS, THE LAW WE MAKE IS AS IMPORTANT AS THE RESULT IN THE CASE. AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT I THINK ALL OF YOU WANT TO THINK ABOUT, BECAUSE WHETHER...
|
| 01:14:42 |
Sotomayor, Sonia - Judge
FOUR ADVOCATES. ORAL ARGUMENT IS IMPORTANT, PERHAPS NOT ALWAYS IN THE OUTCOME BUT IT HELPS SHAPE OUR THINKING. AND HENCE WHEN YOU DO YOUR JOB WELL WE...
|
| 01:18:13 |
Lawrence, Frederick - Dean
LEARNED MORE ABOUT JUDGE SOTOMAYOR'S MOTHER THAN I WANTED TO KNOW WE ARE DELIGHTED TO HAVE -- I SHOULD BE CAREFUL BECAUSE TWO OF THE PEOPLE UP THERE THE...
|
| 01:18:36 |
Lawrence, Frederick - Dean
US, AT OUR BEST, I THINK WE WERE VERY, VERY ABLY REPRESENTED, WE APPRECIATE BOTH BENCH AND BAR, TODAY, WE HAVE APPROPRIATE AND ACCORDING TO OUR UNDERSTANDING...
|
| 01:19:33 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
YOU, AND YOU KINDLY
|
| 01:19:34 |
Lawrence, Frederick - Dean
ACCEPTED OUR INVITATION, TO SERVE ON THIS MOOT COURT WAS TO SAY THAT YOU HAVE A SOFT SPOT IN YOUR HEART FOR GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL,...
|
| 01:19:46 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
SOFT. >> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK
|
| 01:19:48 |
Lawrence, Frederick - Dean
YOU. >> WE STAND ADJOURNED,
|
| 01:20:07 |
Roberts, John G. Jr. - Chief Justice
THE PROGRAM IS CONCLUDED THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK
|
NOTE: The transcript for this program was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.