John Dean, why did you want to write a book on Warren G. Harding?

How long did you live in Marion?

Well, these books are backed by Times Books and also by Arthur Schlesinger. How did you and Arthur Schlesinger get together?

So...

And he encouraged me all the way. You know, it was -- the series, as you know, Brian, is -- they`re not full biographies. They`re fairly tight. And...

He was president in 1920, and he died in office in 1923.

About 880-some-odd days. I think it was 882. And so that`s -- there`s a number of presidents we know that haven`t made a full term. And so he was --...

You do.

You do. When he died in San Francisco, he was -- he had taken this western trip up to Alaska, the first president of the United States to go to Alaska,...

And he -- in judging a president, I`ve always -- you know, when presidents are ranked, as you know, one of the first lines I say in the book is that...

Yes. My father came to Marion -- my father was a Carnegie-Mellon engineer, and he had worked at Firestone for a number of years. And he was an expert...

This would have been about 1950, `51.

I was -- I was about 10, 11, 12 at that time -- about 12, yes.

Well, I remember the -- I remember the house, of course. He had -- we lived on a side -- the main drag in Marion, Ohio, is Mount Vernon Avenue, and...

But you`ve -- you say in your introduction or someplace in the book that you were a personal friend of either the grandkids of...

Is it an illegitimate child?

And she went -- he was a very successful -- he was actually the richest man in town of that era. And he had a hardware store, and he took Flossie to...

They married in -- let`s see. That would have been -- ….They married in...

Warren Harding would have been in his mid-20s when he got married.

He was -- he -- when -- after he graduated from college -- he went to high school -- excuse me -- he went to college at 14 years of age, to a college...

But at any rate, he moves to Marion after college. His family has moved there. And he teaches for one year and he finds "The Star," and he says, Let`s...

He is the oldest of eight. Two would die in childhood. Several -- he had several sisters and one brother.

He had a number of friends. He`s a person who collects people all the way along through his life who become sort of lifetime friends. Phillips is one...

Well, Phillips`s wife -- Phillips married a -- a -- who was supposed to be the most beautiful woman in Marion at the time. She actually wasn`t from...

And one of these times when she became ill, Carrie Phillips had just lost a child, and Jim Phillips had had a nervous breakdown. Warren arranges for...

I think it was pretty well suspected from the -- I was able in putting the book together to talk to a lot of people who, you know, know -- they`re not...

Well, I left Marion in 1952 because I went off to private school. And my folks were still there for a while.

His first elective office was to try to become a county supervisor when he saw that the race was going to go to -- by default to a Democrat. And as...

He goes from -- he retires from the senate and really is -- he ran for the -- the gubernatorial race once and was defeated. It was -- he didn`t want...

But when he comes back to Ohio, as I say, he`s not active. And he really gets back into politics when there`s an opening for the U.S. Senate, and those...

Yes.

That is a -- that is the first direct election -- let`s see, `14 -- no, that -- oh, yes, that -- no, that is a direct election.

No, he had not.

Well, that`s a good question. (LAUGHTER)

Is that a trick question?

There is a -- purportedly, he has an illegitimate daughter. I have grave reservations about this whole situation. People in Marion have grave reservations....

In 1927, a woman by the name of Nan Britton (ph) publishes a book called "The President`s Daughter." Her name is Elizabeth Anne (ph), and in the book...

Right. I don`t believe it. The chief agent of the -- a fellow by the name of Edmund Starling (ph), denies all this. And it -- it just doesn`t seem possible...

One last question on this. Did you try to track down Elizabeth Anne`s relatives?

Does Elizabeth Anne have a last name that you know about?

And I was able to track her to Glendale, California and find that she popped up in 1964 and gave an interview with "The LA Times." I then went to sort...

Three children, did you say?

And she would be how old?

Let me stop for a moment and ask you about how you went about this. How long did you work on this book?

One of the -- excuse me. Let me ….go..back on this, to give you a little background. The reason history got so astray on Harding is that it was long...

In `23.

Yes.

Yes. And then they go -- they`re shipped off to Marion, and they stay in the basement of the -- of his house. When I was bicycling by that house, there...

And what I found -- and I -- I -- there are a few microfilm editions of the papers. I found one at Cal State Hayward (ph), which was as close as I could...

But from the time you had your conversation with Mr. Schlesinger until the time you finished it, what was that?

And the -- as you went through your research, what was the most useful to you, besides what you told us here, to understanding this guy? And why do...

Wilson beat him.

Charles Evans Hughes.

Yes. And then Hughes, as I say, returned to the Court and served -- excuse me -- with great distinction. And so when I read his biography, it`s a two-volume...

In 1920 he was elected. First, before we get to the election, how did he get the nomination in the first place from the Republicans? Where was the convention...

When you look at Harding`s correspondence, you know he`s playing -- Harding was a poker player and played those cards very close and loved poker, played...

How big did he win by, and who did he beat? In 1920, he would have been, what, 55?

Leonard Woods (ph).

You`re talking about Leonard Woods as a -- as a Republican.

I was getting to the Democrat...

... who he ran against.

Cox (ph), Jim Cox.

You say 16 million votes for Harding, 9 million votes for Cox.

Republican and Democratic House and Senate -- I mean, Republican Senate and House?

So not too dissimilar from what George Bush has.

Herbert Hoover was his commerce secretary, Andrew Mellon his treasury secretary, John Davis at Labor, Albert Fall (ph) at Interior, Harry Doherty at...

They did not. Where was the "Dockerty" name? Do you remember that in history?

And then Edwin Denby at Navy. You know, before we talk about what happened to the cabinet after he died and left, what were his big accomplishments?

In domestic, his most lasting one, he created the Bureau of the Budget in 1920, when he first got there. It had been rejected. There had been talk of...

Yes.

That`s huge. That`s trillions by today`s standards. So he did a major cutback in spending. And he brought in a fellow by the name of Dawes (ph), who...

In fact, Dawes -- he took -- when he left, he took his broom and he took the sign on his door, which was a cardboard written sign, "Bureau of the Budget."...

Yes.

Yes.

Very large impact. He would put Taft on as Chief Justice. Taft was a former president, at that point. He would put Justices who rank -- have stood the...

Right.

Several have wanted to. (LAUGHTER)

Florence Harding was very ill, and I think that -- that -- he was not physically in any way debilitated while he was in the White House. He had a --...

Well, talk about that period again when he was president. Would any of the -- the illegitimate children and all that and Nan Britton -- was any of that...

Was there anything about the scandals happened after he died in public at that time?

The only time in the book that we get any hint of your past connection with anything is when you have a little parenthetical expression. You say the...

How much does, 30 years later...

... Watergate impact your life anymore?

How old were you?

And you during that time went to prison for a couple months?

Did you ever try, by the way, to get a pardon?

And when you look back on -- on -- I mean, as you deal with history here and you`re reading about this scandal and -- did that bring back all those...

I have sort of taken an academic look at scandal, and there is very little academic study -- yes, there -- everybody recounts how they happen, and you...

I live in California, in Los Angeles.

Maureen Dean is living with me in Los Angeles.

We`ve been married now for three decades.

I have a child by the first marriage.

He`s in Pittsburgh.

With three granddaughters.

Well, I think because of my own background and experience, I wanted to make sure this man had a fair shake. And I think that`s true with any president....

The people -- in the Harding administration, there were -- only the head of the Veterans Administration and a -- and one other person. There were two...

Yes. It was pretty brutal.

Yes. That`s the best -- best situation -- and a very curious situation, another man who had worked with -- in the -- been involved in the Veterans Administration...

Right.

Forbes was the head of the -- of the -- of the VA.

Now, that was -- that happens after Harding`s death. In fact, I spent yesterday at the National Archives because I`m very fascinated with Teapot Dome....

By the way, I don`t know why I`m asking this, but there`s a Doheney Street or Avenue -- I`ve seen it when I`ve been out in California -- near where...

You -- you live in Beverly Hills?

Is that the same Doheney?

Who was he?

I get the impression from reading the book that you like the fact that you`re painting Warren Harding as a progressive. And the reason -- you can answer...

Do you, by the way -- and we only have a minute or so left. Do you talk to anybody that you were ever associated with in the Watergate years?

Has anybody said anything to you in the later years that, Hey, I thought you were wrong back then, but I`ve learned since that you were on target?

Do you make any efforts to listen to those tapes?

Where do you think he`ll end up in history?

But looking backwards, you put Richard Nixon above or below Warren Harding as...

It`s a short book. It`s a series of books on presidents that was edited by Arthur Schlesinger. Our guest has been John W. Dean. Here`s the cover of...