Mr. Chairman, I like what you have done, if that is any help. But this is a bipartisan bill. It is the result of years of conscientious work, and the...

The UAW notes in its April 13th letter to us, ‘‘This will provide more equitable, timely, and certain compensation to victims of asbestos-related...

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the privilege of ap- pearing again before the Committee, and I thank you and Senator Leahy for your kind words about me...

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman Specter, Senator Leahy, members of the Committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify. Today I am speaking...

As I said earlier, other studies, Mr. Chairman and members of the Committee, have also detailed the significant economic effects of asbestos litigation....

In summary, a major advantage of the trust fund solution ends the scandal of asbestos litigation by getting the problem out of the courts and into a...

Thank you very much, Senator Specter. We do appreciate the opportunity to testify on S. 852. I would first like to acknowledge the work that you and...

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am testifying today on behalf of the AIA and the Reinsurance Association of

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Thank you so much.

As always, we greatly value the opportunity to be here and to work with you and the Committee on this important legislation...

Well, we are looking for more than a safety valve. We are looking for a system that actually does, in fact, have criteria to compensate people that...

What we tried to do with the medical criteria, if you remember, is to set up categories where if an individual had the diagnosis, they had the exposure,...

We spent many, many, many sessions, and I think the leakage is virtually gone. And, frankly, I do not under- stand the drama with which Mr. Berrington...

The specificity of the draft makes this easier as it gets obviously closer, but we think by Thursday that from Goldman Sachs we may have a letter that...

It can still be couched, I suppose, as financial folks do, based on what exactly the mechanisms are, but we think that the Committee has done a nice...

Yes. Senator LEAHY. And the Committee. Thank you. Ms. Seminario, you have probably felt that you have taken up

residence up here on the Hill,...

Thank you. If we have time, I am going to come back to you.

Mr. Berrington, the last time you appeared before the Com- mittee, in January, your...

I understand.

Now, I will include for the record, Ms. Seminario, some questions on chest X-rays, and that will sort of follow up on what you and...

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for your leadership on this important issue. Asbestos litigation has been a colossal disaster for the litigation...

Well, whatever, it is an assessment of some kind. We need to be careful how we do that and make it as fair as we possibly can.

Under the attorneys’...

And they do not get big fees and do not need big fees.

Well, attorneys have made enough money in these cases. These attorneys, many of them, have just become in- credibly rich over it. I don’t think even...

$1.1 million. What about the concern that— normally, would they not be paid promptly, once this fund is up and running, how soon would it take before...

Right. Judge BECKER. The only known cause is asbestos exposure. Senator SESSIONS. Now, what about the concern that as the fund

is coming online,...

Ms. Seminario, do you have a different view of that?

But right now you would admit that the aver- age plaintiff that files a lawsuit is waiting 2 years or more before they begin to receive any substantial...

I would just ask—

Thank you very much, Senator Sessions. Senator Kennedy?

STATEMENT OF HON. EDWARD M. KENNEDY, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF MASSACHUSETTS

The original medical criteria had three cat- egories of lung cancer. The Level VII lung cancers were those indi- viduals diagnosed with lung cancer...

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And let me add my congratulations to you and the Ranking Member, Senator Leahy, and all the people on this Committee who have...

Well, as all of you know, the $4 billion that is in the trusts has to be turned over to the fund. In the event that a constitutional challenge prevails,...

Well, there are lawyers, and then there are judges who are retired heads of circuit courts. I do not want to add much to that, what I have heard.

I...

Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for the work that you and Senator Leahy have done. And I appre- ciate the work. I was not here through...

I want to make another point. Part of my prob- lem with what Congress does too often is they do not pay attention to what real science is. I am just...

Mr. Chairman, I want to thank you and Sen- ator Leahy not only for your hard work on this bill but also for your courtesy in allowing this hearing....

May I respond, Mr. Chairman?

Well, I would like to give you a response. Thank you for this hearing. But understand we are planning on spending 3 or 4 hours on this bill in a hearing....

I beg your pardon, Mr. Chairman. When you have had hearings on this bill and Senator Hatch before you, I have been in attendance. I sat through the...

Mr. Chairman— Chairman SPECTER. Senator Leahy, do you want recognition? Senator LEAHY. Just this, and maybe we should get back on the

subject...

Well, I will just tell you that your negotiations that led up to the presentation of this bill did not—there was not an open invitation to members...

Well, Mr. Chairman, I am sorry, but it is true. And three weeks ago, we were handed this bill and saw it for the first time.

I understand that.

Mr. Chairman, I want to compliment you and Senator Leahy and all the hard work—

Senator Durbin, do you have a question pending for Judge Becker?

Senator Durbin, I don’t really understand Peg Seminario’s you have got to wait 2 years. These claims are—the ex- igent claims, including the meso...

Senator Feinstein?

Senator Feingold?

First of all, Senator, with respect to the three— you say the 300,000 claims we know will be filed. I addressed that in my testimony. I have discussed...

If we don’t stay the cases, the tort system will continue. And the predictions as to the cost to the business and in- surance folks in the court system...

Yes, sir, thank you. We have a little bit dif- ferent view, which is that we believe the trust fund is clearly the way to compensate victims quickly...

Senator Feingold, you are almost 4 and a half minutes over. I know the answers you have been wanting. If you have one more question.

The other point that, I agree with Mr. Berrington, the analysis — but one point that needs to be made if we stay in the tort system, we lose half...

Yes, I would. I would just point out that when the bill was reported out of this committee 2 years ago as S. 1125, it included an amendment that Senator...

Thank you, Senator Feingold.

Thank you very much, Judge Becker, Governor Engler, and Ms. Seminario, Mr. Berrington, thank you very much.

We...

Go ahead.

Thank you very much, Senator Coburn.

Our first witness on Panel II is Dr. James Crapo, professor of medicine at the National Jewish Medical and...

Dr. Crapo, your time is up. Could you sum- marize, please?

Thank you very much, Dr. Crapo.

[The prepared statement of Dr. Crapo appears as a submission for the record.]

We now turn to Professor Green,...

Thank you, Professor Green.

[The prepared statement of Mr. Green appears as a submission for the record.]

We turn now to the Honorable Hershel...

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is a pleasure to be here and an honor. Senator Leahy and I have worked before on the Food Quality Protection Act. Senator...

Thank you, Chairman Specter, and members of the committee. I appreciate the opportunity to be here.

I am actually representing the Coalition for...

Did ATLA request your presence as a wit- ness?

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Mr. Peterson, your time has expired. Could you sum up, please?

Thank you very much, Mr. Peterson.

[The prepared statement of Mr. Peterson appears as a submis- sion for the record.]

We have about 8 minutes...

Dr. Rabinovitz, you are over time. Could you summarize, please.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The UAW appreciates the opportunity to testify before this committee on S. 852, the as- bestos compensation legislation introduced...

So some of your people want to advertise but not tell us who they are?

Some of them will tell? Ms. MORGAN. Yes, absolutely. I am here today. Chairman SPECTER. We would like to know that. Ms. MORGAN. But as far as knowing...

Going back to companies—well, that has nothing to do with going to the Government.

Well, that may be a concern, but there is no basis for it.

Dr. Rabinovitz, your testimony about the amount of the fund, as I understand it, is...

And if you took out the Section 7 claimants, it would be down to $118 billion?

And if you added in the additional monies which we have increased at the request of Senator Kennedy and others on some of the tiers, it would go back...

Okay, well, we can all do the math. The cushion of a $140 billion contribution, as compared with a projec- tion of a cost of $120 billion.

Professor...

My time is up, but provide us documentation on that point, would you please?

Provide us documentation on that expansive debt service figure you just stated.

Just on this point, you have had extensive exper- tise in the field. A number of courts look to you for assistance in highly complex subjects, and we...

Is there anything you want to add to that, Mr. Peterson?

Professor Green, in your written testimony, you make the point in the entire history of asbestos, only a handful of industrial firms and even fewer...

What is the practical effect of this? How long can this go along? How long can this continued litigation go on?

Just finally, Dr. Landrigan, particularly on the lung cancer VII, could you just expand on this point that asbes- tos exposure can be a contributing...

My time is up. Thank you. Chairman SPECTER. Thank you, Senator Kennedy. Senator Cornyn? Senator CORNYN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Professor Green’s...

Thank you very much.

And I know, Ms. Morgan, you mentioned other constitutional concerns that you have, and as I understood it, it is essentially...

Do you have any concept of how many compa- nies we are talking about? I know a number of Senators have ex- pressed concerns about the fairness of the...

Well, I know everyone on the Committee and in the Congress is doing the best they can to solve a very difficult and challenging problem. But I think...

I know my time is up, Mr. Chairman. Chairman SPECTER. Thank you, Senator Cornyn. Senator Leahy. Senator KENNEDY. Can she answer the question?

Dr. Rabinovitz, if you would like to comment on that last question, go ahead.

Thank you, Dr. Rabinovitz.

I think that is a good idea, Senator Cornyn. Senator CORNYN. Thank you very much. Chairman SPECTER. Can you do that, Dr. Rabinovitz? Ms. RABINOVITZ....

I understand from your testimony that the pro- tection against subrogation of victim awards is very important to, I guess, the nearly million members...

Thank you.

Mr. Gober, I am always pleased when I see the Military Order of the Purple Heart come up here. The members have already proved their...

With this bipartisan trust fund legislation, do you think we can finally provide our Nation’s veterans with the compensation they deserve?

Thank you, Mr. Gober, and thank you for your service to our country.

Well, I think first and foremost, as I said in my statement earlier, we are passionately interested in reforming the system. There is no question about...

Well, we have, we actually have. A number of folks have written letters to this Committee. Exxon is on the list. Du- Pont and Shell are some of the...

Well, everyone in the coalition would be paying into this. Everyone is an asbestos defendant.

I have heard that. I don’t know that for a fact, but I do know that there are a lot of defendants who are being rep- resented by insurance companies...

No. As I understand it, any asbestos defendant, whether their claims have been paid by insurance or whether their claims have been paid out of their...

No, I am not referring to those defendants. Those are some lucky defendants.

Well, to your point about being late, we have actu- ally been very vocal for a long time. In 2003—

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Well, our concern is as long as the premise is that insurance assets will be taken away, and as long as the premise is that there has to be a $90 billion...

Well, we can. We can estimate, we can guess. Senator SESSIONS. Okay. Ms. MORGAN. And based on that, we know what our personal, in-

dividual situations...

We have got quite a few good cross-exam- iners, former prosecutors, and Senator Sessions comes at the top of the list today.

Senator, that is not so.

May I comment?

Step to a microphone, Mr. Berrington.

My time is up, but let me just say if you don’t—

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—if you don’t have this weight over the com- panies’ heads, then I think there will be a problem. But I think the fact that these people can return...

You are saying don’t allow a settlement? Is that what you are saying?

Are you saying don’t allow—do you favor the ability to settle for a lump sum within 30 days?

Thank you, Senator Feinstein. Senator COBURN. Senator COBURN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would note for the

record that the CBO numbers on asbestosis...

Some of our testimony today states that there is causation of exposure without evidence of any pleural signs of any asbestosis, any restrictive lung...

Right, and so you feel comfortable telling this Committee that without signs of significant disease from asbestos either through a marker or restrictive...

And, remember, we are not distinguishing the types of lung cancer, are we?

No, and there are multiple types of lung can- cer. So there is no association, and we have done nothing as far as the amount of exposure in terms of...

Thank you very much.

Thank you, sir. I would. One of the nice things about medicine as compared to economic modeling is you can turn to data. In our very large occupational...

Well, if I may, Senator. Chairman SPECTER. Go ahead, Dr. Landrigan. Dr. LANDRIGAN. Senator, in this same article from the Scandina-

vian journal...

I just would make one comment. In the studies that I have seen that CRS gave to me, those confounding variables were not taken out of the studies to...

Well, that troubles me because it means a co- hort of people with lung cancer and asbestos scarring in one lung will not have an opportunity to recover...

Well, that is not precisely true. It will have pre- sumably some small billions of dollars to pay a few claims.

Well, they are probably worth $7 billion. That is the current estimate of the values. But, yes, if they came in, but still the liability in the first...

I don’t believe that. I think it is too optimistic. That is using the optimistic assumptions that the proponents of the legislation were using a year...

Well, either that or these people go back in and start litigating again.

More than half of the claimants will be in that position.

Dr. Rabinovitz, would you care to comment on the last exchange?

Thank you very much. Well, thank you all.

Without objection, it will be made a part of the record.

Mr. Chairman, I have a series of statements I would like to ask to be part of the record relative to constitutional issues and rights of victims.

Mr. Chairman, I thank it has been a good hear- ing. I think it has moved the legislation forward.