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FROM KATHARINE GRAHAM, PUBLISHER OF "THE WASHINGTON POST" DURING WATERGATE. THIS INTERVIEW IS FROM 1997, AND SHE'S SPEAKING AT THE MUSEUM IN ARLINGTON,...
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| 00:00:16 |
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HERE. WE HAVE A LITTLE MOMENT TO GET ALL WIRED UP, THE WONDERS OF TELEVISION. OUR GUEST, OF COURSE, IS KATE GRAHAM, ONE OF THE MOST REMARKABLE WOMEN...
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| 00:00:38 |
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DEPENDENT ON THE TAPES TO SAVE OUR REPUTATIONS AND OUR CREDIBILITY TO A GREAT DEGREE. >> WHAT'S YOUR REACTION
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| 00:00:46 |
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WHEN YOU HEAR THIS PANEL AND YOU HEAR BOTH THE EMOTION THAT WAS EXPRESSED BY THE PANELISTS? I GOT A SENSE JUST LISTENING OF THE INCREDIBLE MACHINATIONS...
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| 00:01:11 |
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TRY TO EMPHASIZE THAT THE ROLE "THE POST" PLAYED. YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES PEOPLE ACCUSE OF, QUOTE, BRINGING DOWN A PRESIDENT WHICH, OF COURSE, WE DIDN'T...
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| 00:02:02 |
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WHERE WERE YOU? DID YOU LEARN ABOUT THE WATERGATE BREAK-IN-THE-DAY AFTERWARDS? >>
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| 00:02:08 |
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YES. I HAVE A FARM IN VIRGINIA, AND I HAD GONE DOWN THERE FOR THE WEEKEND, AND HOWARD SIMONS, THE MANAGING EDITOR, WHO WAS A WONDERFUL MAN, WHO HAS...
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| 00:03:20 |
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OF NEWSPAPERING. >>
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| 00:03:21 |
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YES. >>
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| 00:03:22 |
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AND YOU CERTAINLY DIDN'T SENSE THE SERIOUSNESS OF IT AT THAT POINT? >> WELL, NOBODY
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| 00:03:27 |
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COULD, BECAUSE IT JUST SEEMED LIKE A FARCE, AND IT WAS A FARCE UNTIL IT GOT INTO COURT, WHEN, OF COURSE, THE DATEBOOK IN ONE OF THE BURGLARS' POCKETS...
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| 00:03:59 |
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SAID IN YOUR BOOK SEVERAL TIMES THAT YOU THOUGHT "THE POST" WAS LUCKY IN SEVERAL ASPECTS, AND MAYBE ONE OF THE LUCKY THINGS WAS THAT THE STORY WAS...
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| 00:04:13 |
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IT WAS. BECAUSE I THINK THAT, AS GEORGE SAID, THE NATIONAL STAFF, I THINK I WOULD ADD A LITTLE BIT, GEORGE, AND I HOPE YOU'LL AGREE WITH ME. I THINK THEY...
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| 00:04:33 |
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WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN BELIEVED THE WHITE HOUSE WOULD ORCHESTRATE A BREAK-IN? >> NO, THEY WOULDN'T
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| 00:04:38 |
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HAVE. THE REASON THAT WOODWARD AND BERNSTEIN WAS SUCH A GREAT TEAM WAS BECAUSE THEY WERE VERY YOUNG. THEY WERE BOTH NOT WITH PEOPLE OR MARRIED, AND...
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| 00:05:05 |
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AND SO WHILE IT'S A GREAT STORY, RIGHT, IT'S VERY EXCITING, THERE'S MORE REVELATIONS, BUT THERE COMES A POINT WHEN SUDDENLY YOU SENSE THAT THIS IS SOMETHING...
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| 00:05:16 |
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IN OCTOBER, WHEN THE TWO BIG STORIES BROKE ABOUT THE FACT THAT IT WAS SAID IN THE EARLIER GROUP, THAT ALL THESE THINGS WERE CONNECTED AND THAT THEY...
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| 00:05:48 |
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THE PRESSURE -- WHAT FORM DID IT TAKE? >> WELL, IT TOOK A LOT
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| 00:05:52 |
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OF SILLY FORMS, AND ONE VERY, VERY SERIOUS ONE. THE SERIOUS PART WERE TWO, THEY ATTACKED OUR CREDIBILITY ON EVERY LEVEL, AND THEY WOULDN'T ANSWER...
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| 00:06:26 |
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PETERSON? >> PETE
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| 00:06:27 |
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PETERSON. >>
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| 00:06:28 |
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WHO WAS SECRETARY OF COMMERCE, RIGHT? >> PETE
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| 00:06:31 |
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PETERSON WAS A GREAT FRIEND AND HE WAS VERY IRREVERENT, AND HE GOT INTO TROUBLES IN THOSE MONTHS, AND ONE OF THE TROUBLE WAS THAT HALDEMAN CALLED HIM...
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| 00:07:00 |
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LIST TO THE ENEMIES LIST. >> YES, HE
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| 00:07:03 |
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DID. >> BUT A LOT
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| 00:07:04 |
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OF THIS STUFF WAS HAPPENING IN OCTOBER AND WE'RE IN THE MIDDLE OF A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, RIGHT? >>
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| 00:07:09 |
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RIGHT. >> AND THE McGOVERN
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| 00:07:11 |
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IS WAY BEHIND IN THE POLLS,
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| 00:07:12 |
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RIGHT? >> YES. >> AND "THE WASHINGTON POST"
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| 00:07:14 |
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HAS A POLICY OF NOT ENDORSING,
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| 00:07:16 |
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RIGHT? >> RIGHT. >> DID YOU EVER TALK ABOUT
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| 00:07:18 |
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MAYBE THIS IS SERIOUS, MAYBE WE SHOULD BREAK OUR POLICY, MAYBE WE SHOULD ENDORSE ON THE EDITORIAL PAGE? DID THAT EVER COME UP? >> I THINK ALMOST INDIRECTLY
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| 00:07:28 |
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WE DID ENDORSE BY TALKING ABOUT ISSUES, BUT, NO, IT DIDN'T COME UP AS A -- AS A PART OF THAT DECISION. BUT WE INHERITED THE NO-ENDORSE RULE. I...
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| 00:07:55 |
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INVOLVED WERE YOU IN THE STORIES? WOULD BEN TELL YOU ABOUT EVERY STORY? >> NO, CERTAINLY
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| 00:08:00 |
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NOT. BUT -- AND I WAS NOT DIRECTLY INVOLVED WITH WOODWARD AND BERNSTEIN, BUT I WAS INVOLVED WITH BOTH BEN AND HOWARD, AND I TALKED TO THEM CONSTANTLY...
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| 00:08:44 |
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ACTUALLY -- THEY FOUND SOME FRIENDS, RIGHT, TO MOUNT THE CHALLENGES? >> THERE WERE THREE
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| 00:08:49 |
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CHALLENGES IN JACKSONVILLE AND ONE IN MIAMI, AND ALMOST ALL OF THEM WERE OBVIOUSLY POLITICALLY MOTIVATED. MOSTLY BY COMMITTEE TO RE-ELECT THE PRESIDENT'S...
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| 00:09:10 |
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IN THE SAME TIME PERIOD? >> THEY CAME IN
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| 00:09:12 |
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JANUARY. >> AFTER HE'D BEEN
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| 00:09:14 |
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RE-ELECTED. >>
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| 00:09:15 |
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YES. >> THEY WERE -- THEY
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| 00:09:18 |
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HAD THIS TAPE SYSTEM OBVIOUSLY IN THE WHITE HOUSE. DID YOU EVER TALK OR FEAR THAT THEY HAD TRIED TO PUT A TAP IN "THE POST"? >>
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| 00:09:27 |
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YEAH. SOMEBODY SAID, I GUESS ED WILLIAMS GOT INVOLVED, EDWARD BENNETT WILLIAMS, A FAMOUS CRIMINAL LAWYER, BUT HE WAS OUR LAWYER AT THE TIME AND HE...
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| 00:10:03 |
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EVIDENCE. >>
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| 00:10:04 |
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NO. WE REALLY WENT OVER THE PHONE VERY CAREFULLY, AND WE NEVER FOUND ANY PROOF THAT ANYBODY WAS LISTENING. >> WHAT ABOUT TAX
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| 00:10:16 |
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STUFF? DID ANYBODY DO ANY IRS STUFF? >> I'M JUST ABOUT
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| 00:10:20 |
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AUDITED EVERY YEAR. TELL ME ABOUT IT. >>
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| 00:10:22 |
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THROUGH ALL THE ADMINISTRATIONS? >> WELL, I DON'T
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| 00:10:25 |
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KNOW. >> NOW, THERE CAME A
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| 00:10:27 |
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TIME AFTER NIXON WAS RE-ELECTED, YOU HAD BROKEN A LOT OF STORIES, RIGHT, THAT THE WHOLE WHITE HOUSE WAS INVOLVED IN THIS ILLEGAL ACTIVITY. AND THEN...
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| 00:10:40 |
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RIGHT? >> RIGHT. AND THE MOST TERRIBLE TIME FOR US, RIGHT AFTER THE ELECTION, THE STORIES SIMPLY DRIED UP, AND, OF COURSE, WE WERE REALLY UPTIGHT ABOUT...
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| 00:11:28 |
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LIFE? WHAT ABOUT YOUR FRIENDS? DID THEY COME TO YOU AND SAY, WHY ARE YOU DOING ALL THIS? I MEAN, JOE ALSIP WAS A CRITIC. >> JOE WAS A CRITIC
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| 00:11:36 |
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RIGHT ALONG, HE WAS A GREAT FRIEND OF MINE, BUT HE WAS VERY CLOSE TO THE ADMINISTRATION, AND HE SIMPLY DIDN'T BELIEVE IT UNTIL REALLY THE TAPES CAME...
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| 00:12:11 |
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SOME SLEEP OVER THIS? >> I SURE
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| 00:12:13 |
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DID. YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN CRAZY IF YOU HADN'T. >> BUT YOU HAD CONFIDENCE
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| 00:12:18 |
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IN BEN AND IN HOWARD. >> I
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| 00:12:20 |
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DID. I DID. >> AND IN --
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| 00:12:22 |
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AND THE CAREFULNESS. >> I
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| 00:12:24 |
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DID. YOU KNOW, YOU HAD TO BE WORRIED, BECAUSE EVEN BEN I THINK WAS WORRIED, BUT I WOULD GO TO HIM CONSTANTLY AND SAY, HOW DO WE KNOW WE'RE RIGHT,...
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| 00:13:43 |
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IT WAS A PERSON. >> NO, HE DIDN'T SAY
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| 00:13:45 |
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THAT. HE SAID HE HAS A SOURCE. AND I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, I JUST THINK IT WAS A MAN. >> AND -- BUT YOU
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| 00:13:56 |
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NEVER ASKED HIM FOR -- >> I THOUGHT OF
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| 00:14:00 |
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WOODWARD FACETIOUSLY ONE DAY WHEN I GOT NERVOUS OF NOT BEING NEAR WOODWARD AND BERNSTEIN AND REALLY NOT REALLY KNOWING THEM VERY WELL AND I KNEW HOW...
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| 00:15:19 |
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TWICE ABOUT THAT? I MEAN, YOUR FAMILY'S BUSINESS COULD HAVE BEEN AT STAKE, YOU'RE BEING CHALLENGED WITH TWO TV LICENSES, YOU'VE GOT THESE YOUNG KIDS...
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| 00:15:34 |
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THE IDENTITY OF DEEP THROAT. HE WAS NOT A SOURCE, PETER, HE WAS -- WOODWARD USED HIM TO CHECK WITH, AS I UNDERSTOOD IT THEN AND I THINK NOW, AND I...
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| 00:16:12 |
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KNOW, THE ADMINISTRATION -- THEY WERE ATTACKING US EVERY DAY FOR OUR REPORTING AND INNUENDO AND GUILT BY ASSOCIATION AND THE THINGS WE WERE ALLEGED...
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| 00:16:35 |
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AFTERNOON. I THINK "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL" WHERE HE SAID THE SOURCE WAS USED, AND HE SAID IT SEEMED TO HIM THAT IT WAS AN OM OMNISCIENT SOURCE THAT...
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| 00:17:05 |
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THINK THAT'S GIVING DEEP THROAT ENTIRELY TOO MUCH CREDIT. >>
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| 00:17:08 |
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DO YOU THINK -- >> I MEAN, LOOK, I DON'T
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| 00:17:10 |
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KNOW THE DETAILS OF IT, AND BOB AND KARL DO, BEN DOES, BUT I THINK I'M RIGHT. >> WELL, YOU SAY THE ONLY
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| 00:17:18 |
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SECRET BEN HAS EVER KEPT, RIGHT? >> WELL, THE
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| 00:17:21 |
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ONLY SECRET WASHINGTON'S EVER KEPT. >> AND IT WILL BE REVEALED
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| 00:17:25 |
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WHEN THE MAN DIES. DO YOU THINK THE USE OF THAT SOURCE AT YOUR "NEW YORK POST" AND OTHERS, DO YOU THINK IT THE OVERUSE OF ANONYMOUS SOURCES OR CONTRIBUTED...
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| 00:17:38 |
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KNOW. THAT'S A HARD QUESTION. I DON'T THINK -- AGAIN, ANONYMOUS SOURCES WAS ANOTHER ISSUE. I DON'T THINK THAT THE FACT -- I THINK THAT DEEP THROAT'S...
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| 00:18:16 |
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AND THE NEGATIVES OF THE WATERGATE INVESTIGATION FOR "THE POST"? >> THE POSITIVES
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| 00:18:23 |
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WERE THAT FOR THE FIRST TIME WE WERE ON THE -- WE WERE -- OUR PROFILE WAS VERY HIGH. WE WERE -- PEOPLE KNEW WHO WE WERE. THE PAPER'S VERY SMALL AND ...
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| 00:19:33 |
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THE METRO STAFF ALL WANTED TO DO INVESTIGATIONS, CORRECT? >> WELL, THERE
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| 00:19:37 |
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WAS A LITTLE BIT OF THAT. AND, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A LITTLE BIT OVERINVESTIGATORY FOR A WHILE, BUT I THINK THAT GOT IN BALANCE AFTER A WHILE AND WE...
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| 00:19:59 |
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A PERSONAL, EMOTIONAL PRICE? I MEAN, THERE WAS THAT LEWD, RUDE COMMENT BY JOHN MITCHELL THAT KATIE GRAHAM IS GOING TO GET A SENSITIVE PART OF HER...
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| 00:20:15 |
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WAS A CONCENTRATION ON ME AS THE PERSONIFICATION OF THE PAPER, BECAUSE I THINK, YOU KNOW, THAT I WAS A WOMAN IN THIS JOB, AND THEREFORE, THERE WAS...
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| 00:20:48 |
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MOST POWERFUL WOMEN IN AMERICA. >> I'VE BEEN OUT OF POWER
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| 00:20:51 |
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FOR QUITE A WHILE. >> WE'D BE HAPPY TO TAKE
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| 00:20:54 |
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SOME QUESTIONS FROM THE AUDIENCE. I THOUGHT THERE WERE GOING TO BE SOME ON CARDS, IF THERE ARE, GIVE THEM TO ME. >> I THINK PEOPLE ARE
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| 00:21:04 |
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SATURATED. >> IF THERE AREN'T,
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| 00:21:06 |
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YOU CAN WALK DOWN TO THIS MICROPHONE OR THAT MICROPHONE, BUT WALK ON DOWN. SINCE WE'RE TAPING, WE'D LIKE YOUR QUESTIONS ON TELEVISION, IF POSSIBLE. YOUR...
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| 00:21:21 |
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SOME EXTENT. WITH KENNEDY AND JOHNSON, RIGHT. >> DID YOU EVER THINK
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| 00:21:26 |
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IF HE HAD LIVED HOW HE WOULD HAVE HANDLED THIS? DID THAT EVER OCCUR TO YOU? >>
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| 00:21:32 |
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NO. ONCE YOU GET STARTED, YOU REALLY DON'T -- YEAH. >> WHO DID YOU DEPEND ON
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| 00:21:37 |
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FOR ADVICE? JUST BEN OR WHO? >> BEN AND
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| 00:21:39 |
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HOWARD. >>
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| 00:21:41 |
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YEAH. >> AND I
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| 00:21:43 |
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DON'T THINK ANYBODY ELSE ON THE PAPER. >> WERE THE PEOPLE
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| 00:21:46 |
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ON THE BUSINESS SIDE SUPPORTIVE OF
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| 00:21:48 |
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THIS? >> THEY WERE. THEY REALLY WERE. FRITZ BEEBE WAS WHO WAS THE CHAIRMAN OF THE COMPANY WHO DIED IN THE MIDDLE OF IT, ACTUALLY, IN '73 I GUESS. BUT...
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| 00:22:14 |
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ANY BUSINESS. >> OH, YES, WE WERE --
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| 00:22:18 |
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SOME ADVERTISING. >> JUST BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT
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| 00:22:20 |
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YOU WERE BEING UNFAIR. >>
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| 00:22:21 |
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YEAH. >> BUT YOU FOLLOWED THROUGH
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| 00:22:24 |
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WITH IT ANYWAY. >>
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| 00:22:26 |
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SURE. >> WHY? DID YOU FEEL IT WAS A THING YOU DO AS A PUBLISHER? >>
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| 00:22:31 |
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NO. BUT, YOU KNOW, WHEREAS IN THE CASE OF THE PENTAGON PAPERS, THE DECISION CAME UP TO ME AND I DECIDED THAT ISSUE THAT WE WOULD PRINT. THERE WAS...
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| 00:23:23 |
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STORY. >> FINALLY THERE WAS A
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| 00:23:25 |
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STORY. >> HOW DID YOU FEEL
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| 00:23:26 |
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WHEN YOU LEARNED THAT PRESIDENT NIXON HAD RESIGNED? AND WHERE WERE YOU? >> WELL, WHEN IT BECAME
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| 00:23:32 |
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APPARENT THAT HE WOULD HAVE AFTER THE SMOKING GUN TAPE CAME OUT, I WAS ON VACATION IN MARTHA'S VINEYARD, AND I GOT ON A PLANE AND WENT RIGHT BACK TO...
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| 00:24:35 |
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THINK OF THE MOVIE, "ALL THE PRESIDENT'S MEN"? >> WELL, I
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| 00:24:39 |
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TELL THIS STORY IN THE BOOK BECAUSE REDFORD AND I GOT ACROSS EACH OTHER. AND WE BOTH HEARTILY DISLIKED EACH OTHER, BECAUSE I WAS THE ONE NOMINATED...
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| 00:25:26 |
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IT CAUSED SOME DISSENSION WITHIN "THE POST." >> IT
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| 00:25:29 |
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DID. MEG GREENFIELD THE EDITOR OF THE EDITORIAL PAGE POINTED THAT OUT WHEN I WAS DOING REINTERVIEWING FOR THE BOOK. SHE SAID IT WAS REALLY LIKE THE...
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| 00:25:56 |
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CREDIT. >> AND BARRY SUSSMANN WHO WAS
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| 00:25:58 |
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A METRO EDITOR DIDN'T APPEAR AT ALL, AND THERE WAS EVEN TENSION BETWEEN THE EDITORIAL PAGE TWAND THE NEWS PAGE. I DON'T KNOW, IT CAUSED A LOT OF PROBLEMS...
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| 00:26:12 |
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WAS A PLUS FOR JOURNALISM? A LOT OF PEOPLE WENT INTO JOURNALISM BECAUSE OF WATERGATE? >> I THINK IT WAS A PLUS
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| 00:26:19 |
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FOR JOURNALISM BECAUSE OUR CREDIBILITY WAS VALIDATED, SURE. >> DID YOU KNOW
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| 00:26:24 |
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RICHARD NIXON VERY WELL BEFORE ALL THIS HAPPENED? >> I'D MET HIM A FEW
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| 00:26:30 |
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TIMES. BUT I DIDN'T REALLY KNOW HIM. AS I'VE HEARD FROM PEOPLE NEAR HIM, HE CAME IN REALLY DISLIKING THE PRESS IN GENERAL AND "THE POST" IN PARTICULAR...
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| 00:27:30 |
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MUCH OF A RELATIONSHIP? >> NO, I MET HIM A FEW
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| 00:27:33 |
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TIMES. >> AND IT
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| 00:27:34 |
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WASN'T AFFECTED. HE NEVER CALLED YOU DURING THIS OR ANYTHING. >>
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| 00:27:39 |
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NO. HE CALLED ME ONCE WHEN HE GOT ELECTED, AND ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, HE CAME TO AN EDITORIAL LUNCH WHEN HE WAS CAMPAIGNING. WE HAD PERFECTLY PROPER PROFESSIONAL...
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| 00:27:53 |
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WAS ELECTED? >> NO, HE CALLED ME --
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| 00:27:55 |
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YES, HE CALLED ME ONCE AND SAID THAT HENRY KISSINGER WAS WORKING FOR HIM. NOBODY'S HEARD OF KISSINGER, AND HE SAID I WOULD LIKE -- HE WAS NATIONAL...
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| 00:28:26 |
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THE PLACE WATERGATE HAD IN AMERICAN HISTORY? >> WELL, I AGREE WITH I
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| 00:28:33 |
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GUESS IT WAS BEN, I THINK THAT IT WAS A REAL -- IT WAS AN ANTI-DEM -- IT WAS A REAL THOUGHT -- I DON'T WANT TO SAY THOUGHT. AGAINST THE DEMOCRATIC SYSTEM....
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| 00:29:06 |
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EVEN MORE THAN THE CIVIL WAR, YOU THINK IT WAS A MAJOR -- >> WELL,
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| 00:29:09 |
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I THINK THAT'S, I MEAN, COME ON. WE CAN'T COMPARE THE CIVIL WAR AND WATERGATE. THAT'S RIDICULOUS. >> I WANT TO THANK KAY AND
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| 00:29:18 |
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I CAN'T BELIEVE WITHOUT PROMOTING HER BOOK WHICH IS A FINE BOOK, IT'S IN THE BOOKSTORE. >> THANK
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| 00:29:23 |
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YOU, PETER. THAT'S SO NICE. >> THANK
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| 00:29:30 |
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YOU. >>> ON AUGUST 8th,
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NOTE: The transcript for this program was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.