| 00:02:272 min. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Good evening from the University of Miami Convocation Center in Coral Gables, Florida. I'm Jim Lehrer of "The NewsHour" on PBS. And I welcome... |
| 00:04:561 min. |
Kerry, John F. - U.S. Senator, [D] Massachusetts
Yes, I do. But before I answer further, let me thank you for moderating. I want to thank the University of Miami for hosting us. And I know the... |
| 00:06:544 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Mr. President, you have a 90-second rebuttal. |
| 00:06:581 min. |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
I, too, thank the University of Miami, and say our prayers are with the good people of this state, who've suffered a lot. September the 11th changed... |
| 00:08:2813 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
New question, Mr. President, two minutes. Do you believe the election of Senator Kerry on November the 2nd would increase the chances of the U.S.... |
| 00:08:412 min. |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
No, I don't believe it's going to happen. I believe I'm going to win, because the American people know I know how to lead. I've shown the American people... |
| 00:10:413 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Ninety second response, Senator Kerry. |
| 00:10:441 min. |
Kerry, John F. - U.S. Senator, [D] Massachusetts
I believe in being strong and resolute and determined. And I will hunt down and kill the terrorists, wherever they are. But we also have to be... |
| 00:12:159 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
New question, two minutes, Senator Kerry. "Colossal misjudgments." What colossal misjudgments, in your opinion, has President Bush made in these... |
| 00:12:242 min. |
Kerry, John F. - U.S. Senator, [D] Massachusetts
Well, where do you want me to begin? First of all, he made the misjudgment of saying to America that he was going to build a true alliance, that... |
| 00:14:244 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Ninety-second response, Mr. President. |
| 00:14:281 min. |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
My opponent looked at the same intelligence I looked at and declared in 2002 that Saddam Hussein was a grave threat. He also said in December... |
| 00:16:0211 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
New question, Mr. President. Two minutes. What about Senator Kerry's point, the comparison he drew between the priorities of going after Osama... |
| 00:16:132 sec. |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
Jim, we've got the capability of doing both. As a matter of fact, this is a global effort. We're facing a group of folks who have such hatred... |
| 00:16:152 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Senator Kerry, 90 seconds. |
| 00:16:173 min. |
Kerry, John F. - U.S. Senator, [D] Massachusetts
The president just talked about Iraq as a center of the war on terror. Iraq was not even close to the center of the war on terror before the president... |
| 00:19:472 sec. |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
Can I respond to that? |
| 00:19:492 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Let's do one of these one-minute extensions. You have 30 seconds. |
| 00:19:5134 sec. |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
Thank you, sir. First of all, what my opponent wants you to forget is that he voted to authorize the use of force and now says it's the wrong war at... |
| 00:20:251 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Thirty seconds, Senator. |
| 00:20:2630 sec. |
Kerry, John F. - U.S. Senator, [D] Massachusetts
Yes, we have to be steadfast and resolved, and I am. And I will succeed for those troops, now that we're there. We have to succeed. We can't leave a... |
| 00:20:5617 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
We'll come back to Iraq in a moment. But I want to come back to where I began, on homeland security. This is a two-minute new question, Senator Kerry. As... |
| 00:21:132 min. |
Kerry, John F. - U.S. Senator, [D] Massachusetts
Jim, let me tell you exactly what I'll do. And there are a long list of thing. First of all, what kind of mixed message does it send when you have $500... |
| 00:23:132 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Ninety-second response, Mr. President. |
| 00:23:151 min. |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
I don't think we want to get to how he's going to pay for all these promises. It's like a huge tax gap. Anyway, that's for another debate. My... |
| 00:24:434 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Yes, let's do a little -- yes, 30 seconds. |
| 00:24:4726 sec. |
Kerry, John F. - U.S. Senator, [D] Massachusetts
The president just said the FBI had changed its culture. We just read on the front pages of America's papers that there are over 100,000 hours of tapes,... |
| 00:25:1333 sec. |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
Of course we're doing everything we can to protect America. I wake up every day thinking about how best to protect America. That's my job. I work... |
| 00:25:4612 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
New question, Mr. President. Two minutes. What criteria would you use to determine when to start bringing U.S. troops home from Iraq? |
| 00:25:581 min. |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
Let me first tell you that the best way for Iraq to be safe and secure is for Iraqi citizens to be trained to do the job. And that's what we're... |
| 00:27:553 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Ninety seconds, Senator Kerry. |
| 00:27:581 min. |
Kerry, John F. - U.S. Senator, [D] Massachusetts
Thank you, Jim. My message to the troops is also: Thank you for what they're doing, but it's also help is on the way. I believe those troops deserve... |
| 00:29:302 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
All right, go ahead. Yes, sir? |
| 00:29:321 sec. |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
I think it's worthy for a follow-up. |
| 00:29:335 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Sure, right. (CROSSTALK) LEHRER: We can do 30 seconds each here. All right. |
| 00:29:3833 sec. |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
My opponent says help is on the way, but what kind of message does it say to our troops in harm's way, "wrong war, wrong place, wrong time"? Not a message... |
| 00:30:112 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Senator Kerry, 30 seconds. |
| 00:30:1332 sec. |
Kerry, John F. - U.S. Senator, [D] Massachusetts
Well, you know, when I talked about the $87 billion, I made a mistake in how I talk about the war. But the president made a mistake in invading Iraq.... |
| 00:30:4517 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
All right, new question. Two minutes, Senator Kerry. Speaking of Vietnam, you spoke to Congress in 1971, after you came back from Vietnam, and... |
| 00:31:022 min. |
Kerry, John F. - U.S. Senator, [D] Massachusetts
No, and they don't have to, providing we have the leadership that we put -- that I'm offering. I believe that we have to win this. The president... |
| 00:33:041 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Ninety seconds. |
| 00:33:051 min. |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
That's totally absurd. Of course, the U.N. was invited in. And we support the U.N. efforts there. They pulled out after Sergio de Mello got killed.... |
| 00:34:362 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Forty seconds, Senator. |
| 00:34:3821 sec. |
Kerry, John F. - U.S. Senator, [D] Massachusetts
The United Nations, Kofi Annan offered help after Baghdad fell. And we never picked him up on that and did what was necessary to transfer authority... |
| 00:34:592 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Thirty seconds, Mr. President. |
| 00:35:0132 sec. |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
Well, actually, he forgot Poland. And now there's 30 nations involved, standing side by side with our American troops. And I honor their sacrifices.... |
| 00:35:3313 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
New question, Mr. President, two minutes. You have said there was a, quote, "miscalculation," of what the conditions would be in post-war Iraq. What... |
| 00:35:462 min. |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
No, what I said was that, because we achieved such a rapid victory, more of the Saddam loyalists were around. I mean, we thought we'd whip more of them... |
| 00:37:504 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Ninety seconds, Senator Kerry. |
| 00:37:541 min. |
Kerry, John F. - U.S. Senator, [D] Massachusetts
What I think troubles a lot of people in our country is that the president has just sort of described one kind of mistake. But what he has said is that,... |
| 00:39:2418 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
New question. Senator Kerry, two minutes. You just -- you've repeatedly accused President Bush -- not here tonight, but elsewhere before -- of not telling... |
| 00:39:422 min. |
Kerry, John F. - U.S. Senator, [D] Massachusetts
Well, I've never, ever used the harshest word, as you did just then. And I try not to. I've been -- but I'll nevertheless tell you that I think he has... |
| 00:41:442 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Ninety seconds, Mr. President. |
| 00:41:461 min. |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
My opponent just said something amazing. He said Osama bin Laden uses the invasion of Iraq as an excuse to spread hatred for America. Osama bin Laden... |
| 00:43:114 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Thirty seconds. We'll do a 30 second here. |
| 00:43:1527 sec. |
Kerry, John F. - U.S. Senator, [D] Massachusetts
I wasn't misleading when I said he was a threat. Nor was I misleading on the day that the president decided to go to war when I said that he had made... |
| 00:43:422 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Thirty seconds, Mr. President. |
| 00:43:4429 sec. |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
The only consistent about my opponent's position is that he's been inconsistent. He changes positions. And you cannot change positions in this war on... |
| 00:44:1310 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
New question, Mr. President. Two minutes. Has the war in Iraq been worth the cost of American lives, 1,052 as of today? |
| 00:44:232 min. |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
You know, every life is precious. Every life matters. You know, my hardest -- the hardest part of the job is to know that I committed the troops in... |
| 00:46:304 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Senator, 90 seconds. |
| 00:46:341 min. |
Kerry, John F. - U.S. Senator, [D] Massachusetts
I understand what the president is talking about, because I know what it means to lose people in combat. And the question, is it worth the cost, reminds... |
| 00:48:133 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
All right, sir, go ahead. Thirty seconds. |
| 00:48:1636 sec. |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
Yes, I understand what it means to the commander in chief. And if I were to ever say, "This is the wrong war at the wrong time at the wrong place,"... |
| 00:48:524 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Senator Kerry, you have 30 seconds. You have 30 seconds, right. And then the president. |
| 00:48:5633 sec. |
Kerry, John F. - U.S. Senator, [D] Massachusetts
Secretary of State Colin Powell told this president the Pottery Barn rule: If you break it, you fix it. Now, if you break it, you made a mistake.... |
| 00:49:2919 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Speaking of your plan, new question, Senator Kerry. Two minutes. Can you give us specifics, in terms of a scenario, time lines, et cetera, for... |
| 00:49:481 min. |
Kerry, John F. - U.S. Senator, [D] Massachusetts
The time line that I've set out -- and again, I want to correct the president, because he's misled again this evening on what I've said. I didn't say... |
| 00:51:462 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Ninety seconds. |
| 00:51:481 min. |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
There are 100,000 troops trained, police, guard, special units, border patrol. There's going to be 125,000 trained by the end of this year. Yes, we're... |
| 00:53:242 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Thirty seconds. |
| 00:53:2630 sec. |
Kerry, John F. - U.S. Senator, [D] Massachusetts
I couldn't agree more that the Iraqis want to be free and that they could be free. But I think the president, again, still hasn't shown how he's... |
| 00:53:562 sec. |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
Yes, let me... |
| 00:53:581 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Yes, 30 seconds. |
| 00:53:5927 sec. |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
The reason why Prime Minister Allawi said they're coming across the border is because he recognizes that this is a central part of the war on terror.... |
| 00:54:2612 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Mr. President, new question. Two minutes. Does the Iraq experience make it more likely or less likely that you would take the United States into another... |
| 00:54:381 min. |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
I would hope I never have to. I understand how hard it is to commit troops. Never wanted to commit troops. When I was running -- when we had the debate... |
| 00:56:302 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Senator Kerry, 90 seconds. |
| 00:56:321 min. |
Kerry, John F. - U.S. Senator, [D] Massachusetts
Jim, the president just said something extraordinarily revealing and frankly very important in this debate. In answer to your question about Iraq and... |
| 00:58:061 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Thirty seconds. |
| 00:58:0729 sec. |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
First of all, of course I know Osama bin Laden attacked us. I know that. And secondly, to think that another round of resolutions would have caused... |
| 00:58:362 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Thirty seconds, Senator. |
| 00:58:3830 sec. |
Kerry, John F. - U.S. Senator, [D] Massachusetts
Thirty-five to forty countries in the world had a greater capability of making weapons at the moment the president invaded than Saddam Hussein. And... |
| 00:59:082 min. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
New question. Two minutes, Senator Kerry. What is your position on the whole concept of preemptive war? KERRY: The president always has the right,... |
| 01:01:161 min. |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
Let me -- I'm not exactly sure what you mean, "passes the global test," you take preemptive action if you pass a global test. My attitude is you... |
| 01:02:4614 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
New question, Mr. President. Do you believe that diplomacy and sanctions can resolve the nuclear problems with North Korea and Iran? Take them in any... |
| 01:03:002 min. |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
North Korea, first, I do. Let me say -- I certainly hope so. Before I was sworn in, the policy of this government was to have bilateral negotiations... |
| 01:05:062 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Senator Kerry, 90 seconds. |
| 01:05:081 min. |
Kerry, John F. - U.S. Senator, [D] Massachusetts
With respect to Iran, the British, French, and Germans were the ones who initiated an effort without the United States, regrettably, to begin to try... |
| 01:06:3712 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
I want to make sure -- yes, sir -- but in this one minute, I want to make sure that we understand -- the people watching understand the differences... |
| 01:06:491 sec. |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
Right. |
| 01:06:501 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
And you're willing to do it... |
| 01:06:5114 sec. |
Kerry, John F. - U.S. Senator, [D] Massachusetts
Both. I want bilateral talks which put all of the issues, from the armistice of 1952, the economic issues, the human rights issues, the artillery disposal... |
| 01:07:052 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
And you're opposed to that. Right? |
| 01:07:0738 sec. |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
The minute we have bilateral talks, the six-party talks will unwind. That's exactly what Kim Jong Il wants. And by the way, the breach on the agreement... |
| 01:07:4525 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
New question, two minutes. Senator Kerry, you mentioned Darfur, the Darfur region of Sudan. Fifty thousand people have already died in that area.... |
| 01:08:101 min. |
Kerry, John F. - U.S. Senator, [D] Massachusetts
Well, I'll tell you exactly why not, but I first want to say something about those sanctions on Iran. Only the United States put the sanctions... |
| 01:10:091 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Ninety seconds. |
| 01:10:101 min. |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
Back to Iran, just for a second. It was not my administration that put the sanctions on Iran. That happened long before I arrived in Washington,... |
| 01:11:3024 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
New question, President Bush. Clearly, as we have heard, major policy differences between the two of you. Are there also underlying character issues... |
| 01:11:541 min. |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
That's a loaded question. Well, first of all, I admire Senator Kerry's service to our country. I admire the fact that he is a great dad. I appreciate... |
| 01:13:492 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Ninety second response, Senator. |
| 01:13:5130 sec. |
Kerry, John F. - U.S. Senator, [D] Massachusetts
Well, first of all, I appreciate enormously the personal comments the president just made. And I share them with him. I think only if you're doing this... |
| 01:14:213 sec. |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
I'm trying to put a leash on them. (LAUGHTER) |
| 01:14:249 sec. |
Kerry, John F. - U.S. Senator, [D] Massachusetts
Well, I know. I've learned not to do that. (LAUGHTER) And I have great respect and admiration for his wife. I think she's a terrific person... |
| 01:14:331 sec. |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
Thank you. |
| 01:14:3454 sec. |
Kerry, John F. - U.S. Senator, [D] Massachusetts
... and a great first lady. But we do have differences. I'm not going to talk about a difference of character. I don't think that's my job or... |
| 01:15:282 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Thirty seconds. |
| 01:15:3030 sec. |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
Well, I think -- listen, I fully agree that one should shift tactics, and we will, in Iraq. Our commanders have got all the flexibility to do what is... |
| 01:16:002 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Thirty seconds. |
| 01:16:0229 sec. |
Kerry, John F. - U.S. Senator, [D] Massachusetts
I have no intention of wilting. I've never wilted in my life. And I've never wavered in my life. I know exactly what we need to do in Iraq, and... |
| 01:16:3116 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
New question, two minutes, Senator Kerry. If you are elected president, what will you take to that office thinking is the single most serious... |
| 01:16:472 min. |
Kerry, John F. - U.S. Senator, [D] Massachusetts
Nuclear proliferation. Nuclear proliferation. There's some 600-plus tons of unsecured material still in the former Soviet Union and Russia. At the rate... |
| 01:18:472 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Ninety seconds, Mr. President. |
| 01:18:491 min. |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
Actually, we've increased funding for dealing with nuclear proliferation about 35 percent since I've been the president. Secondly, we've set up what's... |
| 01:20:2622 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Just for this one-minute discussion here, just for whatever seconds it takes: So it's correct to say, that if somebody is listening to this, that both... |
| 01:20:484 sec. |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
In the hands of a terrorist enemy. |
| 01:20:5225 sec. |
Kerry, John F. - U.S. Senator, [D] Massachusetts
Weapons of mass destruction, nuclear proliferation. But again, the test or the difference between us, the president has had four years to try... |
| 01:21:171 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Your response to that? |
| 01:21:1831 sec. |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
Again, I can't tell you how big a mistake I think that is, to have bilateral talks with North Korea. It's precisely what Kim Jong Il wants. It will... |
| 01:21:4922 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
All right. Mr. President, this is the last question. And two minutes. It's a new subject -- new question, and it has to do with President Putin and... |
| 01:22:111 min. |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
No, I don't think it's OK, and said so publicly. I think that there needs to be checks and balances in a democracy, and made that very clear that by... |
| 01:24:012 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Ninety seconds, Senator Kerry. |
| 01:24:031 min. |
Kerry, John F. - U.S. Senator, [D] Massachusetts
Well, let me just say quickly that I've had an extraordinary experience of watching up close and personal that transition in Russia, because I was there... |
| 01:25:353 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Thirty seconds, Mr. President. |
| 01:25:383 sec. |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
You know my opinion on North Korea. I can't say it any more plainly. |
| 01:25:412 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Well, but when he used the word "truth" again... |
| 01:25:43 |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
Pardon me? |
| 01:25:436 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
... talking about the truth of the matter. He used the word "truth" again. Did that raise any hackles with you? |
| 01:25:492 sec. |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
Oh, I'm a pretty calm guy. I don't take it personally. |
| 01:25:511 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
OK. All right. |
| 01:25:5225 sec. |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
You know, we looked at the same intelligence and came to the same conclusion: that Saddam Hussein was a grave threat. And I don't hold it against... |
| 01:26:1732 sec. |
Kerry, John F. - U.S. Senator, [D] Massachusetts
It was a threat. That's not the issue. The issue is what you do about it. The president said he was going to build a true coalition, exhaust the... |
| 01:26:4910 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
All right, that brings us to closing statements. And, again, as determined by a coin toss, Senator Kerry, you go first, and you have two minutes. |
| 01:26:591 min. |
Kerry, John F. - U.S. Senator, [D] Massachusetts
Thank you, Jim, very much. Thank you very much to the university, again. Thank you, Mr. President. My fellow Americans, as I've said... |
| 01:28:572 sec. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
Mr. President, two minutes. |
| 01:28:591 min. |
Bush, George W. - President, [R] United States
Thank you very much tonight, Jim. Senator. If America shows uncertainty or weakness in this decade, the world will drift toward tragedy. That's... |
| 01:30:49 |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
And that ends tonight's debate. A reminder, the second presidential debate will be a week from tomorrow, October 8th, from Washington University in... |
| 00:04:401 hr. |
Lehrer, Jim - Anchor
As determined by a coin toss, the first question goes to you, Senator Kerry. You have two minutes. Do you believe you could do a better job than... |