| 10:19:4311 sec. |
Lamb, Brian - Host
Stanley Karnow, author of the new book In Our Image: America's Empire in the Philippines, when did you first think you wanted to be a writer? |
| 10:19:3241 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
It goes back to your jelly pad when you are 8 years old and you print your own newspaper for your friends and in school. I guess when I started out... |
| 10:18:513 sec. |
Lamb, Brian - Host
What's the difference between being a journalist and a writer? |
| 10:18:481 min. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
Let's put it this way: Journalists are writers, but not all writers are journalists. I use the distinction because the word journalism contains the... |
| 10:16:506 sec. |
Lamb, Brian - Host
Can you remember why you were interested in being a journalist in the first place? |
| 10:16:441 min. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
It's hard to remember what my motives were. I guess I liked to write. I like to toy with words. I remember when I was in high school, I used to write... |
| 10:15:2437 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
So I got launched, if you want, or I launched myself in that and, like everybody getting out of college, went out to look for a job and had a very odd... |
| 10:14:4756 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
I had been in the Army during the Second World War so I had something like three or four years of GI Bill coming to me. Those were the days when the... |
| 10:13:5130 sec. |
Lamb, Brian - Host
This book is about the Philippines. Right down at the bottom it says, Author of Vietnam: A History That book also was made into a series on PBS. Where... |
| 10:13:2142 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
I felt that television could do a lot of things in telling a story. You can't really dramatize certain events in words in the same way you could do... |
| 10:12:3941 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
It's very hard in an ongoing documentary to analyze things. Television requires images and visuals; it requires photographs or film. For example, if... |
| 10:11:581 min. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
There's a limited attention span, I think, on the part of the viewer for an analysis of what's going on inside that room, but you can do that in a book.... |
| 10:10:4210 sec. |
Lamb, Brian - Host
Back to the first book, this joint project of the Vietnam history. Whose idea was it to do the combination of television and the book? |
| 10:10:3224 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
The idea of the television series was proposed to me by Lawrence K. Grossman, who was then the president of Public Broadcasting, in a rather nice setting.... |
| 10:10:082 sec. |
Lamb, Brian - Host
How long, by the way? |
| 10:10:061 min. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
I started going out there in the '50s, so I was there from the '50s and then even in fact for the television series and the book went back in the early... |
| 10:08:431 sec. |
Lamb, Brian - Host
But the series started first, in your mind. |
| 10:08:421 min. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
The idea of the series started first, yes. Then I did the book actually along with the series. It wasn't as if I wrote the book and then the series... |
| 10:07:2110 sec. |
Lamb, Brian - Host
You may tell me this is none of my business, but how does someone over a seven year period live day to day? Did they pay you during this period? You... |
| 10:07:111 min. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
You want to get a handsome advance, if you can, although it's not a way to make money. Working on these things, you could be a teller in a bank and... |
| 10:05:574 sec. |
Lamb, Brian - Host
When do you feel a sense of satisfaction? What is it? |
| 10:05:5336 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
It's every step of the way. First, you organize. You plan what you're going to do, and you know perfectly well as you start it, when you've got a grasp... |
| 10:05:1735 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
When I was a young reporter in Paris, I interviewed the great abstract painter Georges Braque, who said to me, If I knew what was going to come out... |
| 10:04:4245 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
Interviewing people is fun in many ways, especially if you have time to do it, and you can let it spread out a bit, and you can help the person you're... |
| 10:03:5733 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
Then you plunge into archives and start digging out all kinds of things, and there again you're down there with your helmet light on in that coal mine... |
| 10:03:2450 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
I don't know any writer who thinks that writing is fun. It's hard work, and the way I do it is just as if I'm doing any other job. I get up in the morning... |
| 10:02:341 min. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
But the thing that keeps you going, I think, is that you have these peaks in which you really do begin to feel that you're getting the story told and... |
| 10:01:3229 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
I'm not an academic, and I don't want to throw 24 volumes at people. I assure you that I had enough material to do a 24-volume account of this story,... |
| 10:01:031 min. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
I've had much better reviews than I would have dreamed of having. The New York Times, the Washington Post, the Boston Globe have all been very kind.... |
| 10:00:0254 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
. The Vietnam book was published in late '83; it's still on the shelves. It's being used in schools along with the television series, and I must say... |
| 09:59:0837 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
I get a lot of letters from veterans, from Vietnamese refugees or immigrants now living in this country, so you get some sense that you've put something... |
| 09:58:3153 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
Don't forget that it's interesting about Vietnam, that is, that you have a whole generation of Americans who lived through it, either veterans of the... |
| 09:57:3835 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
This book, In Our Image, it's really a book about America, not about the Philippines. The Philippines is the landscape, but the story is about America... |
| 09:57:031 sec. |
Lamb, Brian - Host
Who's this gentleman? |
| 09:57:0224 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
Theodore Roosevelt, one of the architects of our war with Spain and the man who was responsible, in fact, for ordering Commodore George Dewey, who was... |
| 09:56:3816 sec. |
Lamb, Brian - Host
As a journalist are you driven to transfer information, or do you find yourself having a strong point of view at this point in your life and you want... |
| 09:56:221 min. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
To tell you the truth, I'm not out grinding axes. I do obviously have a point of view. I think only an ameba doesn't have a point of view. The idea... |
| 09:55:201 min. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
Again, going back to Vietnam, because the results in this one it's too early to tell, but on Vietnam I found myself denounced by the extreme left and... |
| 09:54:192 sec. |
Lamb, Brian - Host
Who's this gentleman? |
| 09:54:1721 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
That's Arthur MacArthur, who was a general at the turn of the century in the Philippines and one of the early American commanders and the father of... |
| 09:53:565 sec. |
Lamb, Brian - Host
What impact did he have on our relationships with the Philippines? |
| 09:53:5146 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
He was there at this early period. After we had landed in the Philippines, we defeated the Spanish" as I said, Dewey defeated the Spanish fleet in seven... |
| 09:53:0529 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
After defeating the Spanish, in the summer of 1898, there was a lot of doubt about what was going to happen in the Philippines. We had a conspicuously... |
| 09:52:3647 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
He explained afterward to a group of Methodist clergymen that he could not make up his mind, but he said he paced the floor of the White House night... |
| 09:51:4950 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
So we decided to retain these islands, but there was a Philippine nationalist movement that had declared independence, so we went to war to conquer... |
| 09:50:595 sec. |
Lamb, Brian - Host
This is a classic picture. Who is this? |
| 09:50:5460 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
Who are you looking at, the water buffalo or the man sitting on it? The question, of course, is who weighs more. The man on the water buffalo is William... |
| 09:49:544 sec. |
Lamb, Brian - Host
When he was there, how many Filipinos were there? |
| 09:49:501 min. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
The population was probably around 6-8 million. There had never really been a census. It was in those years, of course, a fairly large population. It's... |
| 09:48:4238 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
Another factor of course was to bring an area of 8 million people into the union would have made it the biggest state in the union. It would have been... |
| 09:48:042 sec. |
Lamb, Brian - Host
This picture? |
| 09:48:0225 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
That is President Franklin D. Roosevelt signing into law in 1935 the legislation that turned the Philippines into a commonwealth and also, more importantly,... |
| 09:47:3710 sec. |
Lamb, Brian - Host
I have another photograph of another president and a couple of other figures that the audience may recognize. Who’s the gentleman with the straw hat... |
| 09:47:271 min. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
The man with the straw hat is Douglas MacArthur, then the military adviser to the Philippine commonwealth government. He had been chief of staff in... |
| 09:46:2248 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
Years later when Eisenhower was president, somebody asked MacArthur if he had known Eisenhower, to which MacArthur replied, Best clerk I ever had. There... |
| 09:45:346 sec. |
Lamb, Brian - Host
What impact did Gen. MacArthur have on what we know today as the Philippines? |
| 09:45:2840 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
The big thing that MacArthur did and what really has made him almost a deity to the Filipinos is that soon after the outbreak of World War II when the... |
| 09:44:4843 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
In 1944 as he fought his way up through the Pacific, he approached the Philippines, and there was a big debate in Washington among the strategists of... |
| 09:44:0521 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
I went back to the Philippines with MacArthur on his final journey there in 1961, what he called his sentimental journey. Millions of people came out... |
| 09:43:443 sec. |
Lamb, Brian - Host
How much time did you spend around him? |
| 09:43:4140 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
Just those few weeks on his return. I served in Asia during the Second World War, fortunately not in his command. A lot of American soldiers, a lot... |
| 09:43:0131 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
We remember the names of the famous generals like Omar Bradley or Maxwell Taylor or Matthew Ridgway or George Patton because Eisenhower gave them publicity.... |
| 09:42:303 sec. |
Lamb, Brian - Host
What was he like to just sit and talk to? |
| 09:42:2731 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
From my own brief experience with him, MacArthur tended to deliver speeches. Maybe this was because it was late in his life. He talked himself out;... |
| 09:41:561 sec. |
Lamb, Brian - Host
This picture? |
| 09:41:5548 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
That's Ferdinand Marcos and Imelda Marcos" Marcos was the president of the Philippines" with Lyndon Johnson on a visit to Washington in 1966. Lyndon... |
| 09:41:071 sec. |
Lamb, Brian - Host
This photo? |
| 09:41:061 min. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
That's Richard Nixon with the Marcoses, and to the right is Pat Nixon. They didn't get along very well. Nixon, whatever you may think of him, was sensitive... |
| 09:40:035 sec. |
Lamb, Brian - Host
How would you describe the Filipino as a person? |
| 09:39:5845 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
There are very few peoples in the world that I've encountered who were as hospitable and genuinely warm as the Filipinos are, especially toward an American.... |
| 09:39:1325 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
Filipinos are very talkative. Of course, I understand as a reporter that they want something, I mean, that they're trying to sell themselves or sell... |
| 09:38:4848 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
The book and the television series that we produced, we had to go out with the Filipino communists into their areas, and they're just as friendly and... |
| 09:38:004 sec. |
Lamb, Brian - Host
This is I think the final photo in your book. |
| 09:37:561 min. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
That is President Corazon Aquino" Cory, as we call her" delivering a speech to the joint sessions of Congress in September 1986 about six or eight months... |
| 09:36:5011 sec. |
Lamb, Brian - Host
What do the people who run the Philippines, like Mrs. Aquino, think of us? |
| 09:36:3921 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
She said" and she's not a woman to dissimulate" she said in her speech before Congress that the three years that she was in exile in Boston, from 1980... |
| 09:36:1836 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
There are very strong ties. Now, they're two countries, and two countries obviously have their differences, but deep down it's my experience that Filipinos... |
| 09:35:4247 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
United States. When you get down into the villages, it's very rare that you don't find somebody who's got a cousin in San Diego or an uncle in Cleveland.... |
| 09:34:558 sec. |
Lamb, Brian - Host
Based on what you've seen in history, what will our relations be 10 to 20 years from now? |
| 09:34:4747 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
Let me put it in terms of what I would like to see rather than looking into my clouded crystal ball and predicting what in fact will happen. In terms... |
| 09:34:0056 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
The Filipinos have to develop this sense of nationhood, and that's going to be a major challenge for them. Only when they can do that can they begin... |
| 09:33:0412 sec. |
Lamb, Brian - Host
This is what the cover of the book looks like. Stanley Karnow is our guest. The title is In Our Image: America's Empire in the Philippines. How much... |
| 09:32:5236 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
The image is there. When we went out there, we tried to turn the Filipinos into facsimile Americans, and we did to a certain extent. Filipinos copied... |
| 09:32:1639 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
We have a society that we like to think is based on civic virtue, on impersonal institutions. Philippine society is based on personal relationships;... |
| 09:31:377 sec. |
Lamb, Brian - Host
You were born in New York City in 1925. |
| 09:31:30 |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
Right. |
| 09:31:303 sec. |
Lamb, Brian - Host
You got a degree from Harvard. |
| 09:31:271 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
That's right. |
| 09:31:269 sec. |
Lamb, Brian - Host
You studied also at the Sorbonne in Paris. A lot of your writings in the last several years have been in the Far East. Where did you get your interest? |
| 09:31:1742 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
I started out as a reporter in Paris in 1950 and worked there as a correspondent for Time magazine, had some interludes back at Harvard as a Nieman... |
| 09:30:3528 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
As so often happens with big organizations, I'd hardly got settled down there than there was an opening in Hong Kong, and they said, Would you like... |
| 09:30:0753 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
But Asia always interested me, not that I had any special knowledge. As I said, I had been out there during the Second World War, but I was just a GI... |
| 09:29:1427 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
I think people who claim to be Asia experts are using the wrong word. I think you can say you're an Asia specialist, but it's very complicated area.... |
| 09:28:475 sec. |
Lamb, Brian - Host
How many years did it take you to write this book about the Philippines? |
| 09:28:4226 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
It took me about four years to do the book on the Philippines and the television series. I'd like to say that I started going out there in the late... |
| 09:28:167 sec. |
Lamb, Brian - Host
How much videotape or film shooting did you have to do for your PBS series? |
| 09:28:091 min. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
We did literally hundreds of interviews with everybody from Ferdinand Marcos and Imelda Marcos to President Aquino, various members of her Cabinet,... |
| 09:26:482 sec. |
Lamb, Brian - Host
Did you do all the interviews yourself? |
| 09:26:4620 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
I did most of the interviews on camera. Again, having spent all those years out there, I knew all these people, so it was easy enough for me to call... |
| 09:26:267 sec. |
Lamb, Brian - Host
What are you going to do with those hours and hours of interviews that never got into the what is it? three hours of documentary on PBS. |
| 09:26:1921 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
Yes. As usual, again like writing a book, it's the chipping away at that big block of granite in order to produce that sculpture. I would hope that... |
| 09:25:5811 sec. |
Lamb, Brian - Host
You've worked for the Saturday Evening Post, NBC News, the Washington Post. You were an associate editor of the New Republic. Which of those did you... |
| 09:25:4722 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
I've got this attitude of a reporter, which is the story I'm working on that day is the greatest story I've ever done in my life. Wherever I worked... |
| 09:25:2534 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
Being able to write long pieces for the late and lamented old Saturday Evening Post was particularly satisfactory, but on the other hand working for... |
| 09:24:5137 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
I must say that I can't think of a better profession to be than a foreign correspondent. As I've often said, it's the only profession in which you remain... |
| 09:24:142 sec. |
Lamb, Brian - Host
What do they do? |
| 09:24:1212 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
My oldest son's a lawyer. His wife, my daughter-in-law, is an anthropologist. My daughter's a professional photographer and quite successful. My youngest... |
| 09:24:0020 sec. |
Lamb, Brian - Host
From what you've learned as a reporter and a journalist and a writer and a television producer, if somebody made you secretary of state what are some... |
| 09:23:4032 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
Let me preface it by saying I would reject the offer if I was offered the job. I think that the main thing we have to understand about dealing with... |
| 09:23:0835 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
We beef about the Japanese and their trade problems. They've got a legislature, they've got political parties, they've got pressure groups and vested... |
| 09:22:3335 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
Mind you, it's very important that you have to realize that you are representing the United States" your main client is the American people" but you... |
| 09:21:583 sec. |
Lamb, Brian - Host
Next project for Stanley Karnow? |
| 09:21:5543 sec. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
I would like to look into the possibility of a book and another television series on this vast influx of Asians into the United States. Mind you, I... |
| 09:21:1211 sec. |
Lamb, Brian - Host
Here's the book, In Our Image: America's Empire in the Philippines. Stanley Karnow is the author, and he's been our guest for the last 60 minutes. Thank... |
| 09:21:011 min. |
Karnow, Stanley - Author
Thank you, Brian. |