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| TIME | SPEAKER | TEXT |
|---|---|---|
| 00:11:48 |
|
Good morning, everyone. Judge, it's good to see you back, and your family. Judge Sotomayor,... |
| 00:13:25 |
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Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good morning, Judge. |
| 00:13:27 |
|
Good morning, Senator. It's good to see you again. |
| 00:13:29 |
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Good to see you. I recall when we met in my office, you told me how much you enjoy the back... |
| 00:16:34 |
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Yes, generally. But the point I was making was that Justice O'Connor's words, the ones that... |
| 00:18:07 |
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But Judge -- |
| 00:18:07 |
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It had a different meaning in the context of the entire speech. |
| 00:18:11 |
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But Judge, she said a wise man and a wise woman would reach the same conclusion. You said that... |
| 00:18:36 |
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It is clear from the attention that my words have gotten and the manner in which it has been... |
| 00:20:14 |
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So you'd -- do you stand by your words of yesterday in -- when you said it was a failed rhetorical... |
| 00:20:26 |
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I stand by the words; it fell flat. And it -- and I understand that some people have understood... |
| 00:20:45 |
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Well, you spoke about the law students to whom these comments were frequently directed and your... |
| 00:21:07 |
|
I would regret that, because, for me, the work I do with students -- and it's just not in the... |
| 00:22:19 |
|
Let me ask about another speech you gave in 1996 that was published in the Suffolk University... |
| 00:22:59 |
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The title of that speech was "Returning Majesty to the Law." As I hope I communicated in my... |
| 00:23:33 |
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What kind of -- excuse me. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt you. |
| 00:23:37 |
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And I was encouraging them not to fall into the trap of calling decisions that the public disagrees... |
| 00:26:24 |
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Judge, if you let me -- I think we're straying away from the question I had talking about oversight... |
| 00:26:47 |
|
They change -- we can't change law. We're not lawmakers. But we change our view of how to interpret... |
| 00:27:30 |
|
In another speech in 1996, you celebrated the uncertainty of the law. You wrote that the law... |
| 00:28:07 |
|
It's not that it's important to the law as much as it is that it's what legal cases are about.... |
| 00:30:02 |
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In a 2001 speech at Berkeley, you wrote, quote, "Whether born from experience or inherent physiological... |
| 00:30:36 |
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I was talking just about that. There are in the law -- there have been upheld in certain situations... |
| 00:31:06 |
|
We're talking about judging, though, aren't -- |
| 00:31:06 |
|
You need to be a pilot who has good eyesight. |
| 00:31:09 |
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We're not talking about pilots. We're talking about judging, right? |
| 00:31:11 |
|
No, no, no, no. But what I'm -- was talking about there, because the context of that was talking... |
| 00:32:19 |
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So you stand by the comment that -- or the statement that inherent physiological differences... |
| 00:32:27 |
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I'm not sure of that -- I'm not sure exactly where that would play out, but I was asking a hypothetical... |
| 00:33:18 |
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As you can tell, I'm struggling a little bit to understand how your statement about physiological... |
| 00:34:18 |
|
Yes. It is absolutely correct. I was asked no question by anyone, including the president, about... |
| 00:34:28 |
|
Do you know, then, on what basis, if that's the case -- and I accept your statement -- on what... |
| 00:34:45 |
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No, sir, because you just have to look at my record to know that in the cases that I addressed... |
| 00:34:58 |
|
On what basis would George Pavia, who was apparently senior partner in the law firm that hired... |
| 00:35:27 |
|
I have no idea, since I know for a fact I never spoke to him about my views on abortion -- frankly,... |
| 00:36:19 |
|
Right. Do you agree with -- |
| 00:36:19 |
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-- abortion-related activities. |
| 00:36:24 |
|
Do you agree with his statement that you have generally liberal instincts? |
| 00:36:29 |
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If he was talking about the fact that I served on a particular board that promoted equal opportunity... |
| 00:37:05 |
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(Laughs.) |
| 00:37:06 |
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(Laughs.) |
| 00:37:09 |
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Well, I hope, as you suggested, not only liberals endorse the idea of equal opportunity in this... |
| 00:39:13 |
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Senator, I can't speak to what brought this case to Judge Cabranes's attention. I can say the... |
| 00:41:55 |
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But Judge, even the district court admitted that a jury could rationally infer that city officials... |
| 00:43:30 |
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As you know, the court's opinion, issued after discussions en banc, recognized, as I do, the... |
| 00:44:56 |
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My time's up. Thank you. |
| 00:44:57 |
|
Thank you. Thank you very much. I would note in the record -- will put in the record a letter... |
| 00:45:34 |
|
Mr. Chairman? |
| 00:45:35 |
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Yes. |
| 00:45:35 |
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I would offer a letter for the record from the National Rifle Association in which they express... |
| 00:46:15 |
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To -- and without objection, those will be made part of the record. And we'll -- do you have... |
| 00:46:21 |
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Nothing else. |
| 00:46:22 |
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Then I'll yield to Senator Cardin. |
| 00:46:25 |
|
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And Judge Sotomayor, good morning. Welcome back to our committee.... |
| 00:46:54 |
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(Laughs.) |
| 00:46:55 |
|
So we just want to invite you, as a baseball fan, we want to invite you to an Orioles game,... |
| 00:47:06 |
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That's a great invitation, and good morning, Senator. You can assure your Baltimore fans... |
| 00:47:15 |
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Well, we think it's the best. Of course, it was the beginning of the new trends of baseball... |
| 00:49:14 |
|
I -- thank those who have commented in the way they did. I think that most lawyers who participate... |
| 00:50:30 |
|
Well, I thank you for that response. I agree with you that the Constitution, the Bill of Rights,... |
| 00:53:45 |
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When we speak about my passion, I don't think that the issue of guaranteeing each citizen the... |
| 00:57:15 |
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Let me use your quote there because I thought it was particularly appropriate. You said, "I... |
| 01:00:07 |
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Believe my case -- my cases, my entire record shows that I look at the acts of Congress, as... |
| 01:01:05 |
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Thank you for that response. Let me turn, if I might, to our personal backgrounds. There's been... |
| 01:03:30 |
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Your comment about your daughter and granddaughter makes me remember a letter I received when... |
| 01:04:34 |
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(Chuckles.) |
| 01:04:35 |
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It almost comes around to your earlier question, which is, that issue is one that starts with... |
| 01:07:30 |
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Well -- and you need to look at all the facts in reaching those decisions, which you have stressed... |
| 01:08:55 |
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Well, it depends on the context of that case that you're looking at. In the Gant case, for example,... |
| 01:10:12 |
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Well -- and I agree. I think you need to take a look at all the facts and the circumstances.... |
| 01:11:34 |
|
The right to privacy has been recognized, as you know, in a wide variety of circumstances. For... |
| 01:13:10 |
|
Thank -- in the time that I have remaining, I would like to talk about pro bono. I enjoyed our... |
| 01:14:47 |
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I know that there's been a lot of attention paid to one speech and its variants that I've given.... |
| 01:16:54 |
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Well, very, very well said. I look forward to working between Congress and the courts in advancing... |
| 01:17:00 |
|
Thank you very much, Senator Cardin. And Senator Coburn. |
| 01:17:04 |
|
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'd like to ask unanimous consent to put in an article from the newspaper... |
| 01:17:10 |
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Without objection, it will be placed in the record. |
| 01:17:13 |
|
Welcome, again. And -- but first of all, let me apologize to you because I was not able to hear... |
| 01:18:45 |
|
I can speak to what the court has said in its precedent. In Planned Parenthood versus Casey,... |
| 01:19:28 |
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So let me give you a couple of cases. Let's say I'm 38 weeks pregnant and we discover a small... |
| 01:19:52 |
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I can't answer that question in the abstract, because I would have to look at what the state... |
| 01:20:45 |
|
Okay. Well, does technology -- in terms of the advancement of technology, should it have any... |
| 01:21:20 |
|
The law has answered a different question. It's talked about the constitutional right of women... |
| 01:21:27 |
|
I understand -- |
| 01:21:27 |
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-- in certain circumstances. And, as I indicated, the issue becomes one of what's the state... |
| 01:21:37 |
|
I understand. But all I'm asking is, should it have any bearing? |
| 01:21:42 |
|
I can't answer that in the abstract, because the question as it would come before me wouldn't... |
| 01:22:16 |
|
But viability is a portion of a lot of that. And a lot of the decision -- have been made basis... |
| 01:22:37 |
|
All I can say to you is what the court's done. |
| 01:22:40 |
|
Right. |
| 01:22:40 |
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And the standard that the court has applied, what factors it may or may not look at within a... |
| 01:22:55 |
|
All I'm asking is whether it should. |
| 01:22:57 |
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That -- |
| 01:22:57 |
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Should viability, should technology, at any time, be considered as we discuss these very delicate... |
| 01:23:11 |
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I can't because that's not a question that the court reaches out to answer. |
| 01:23:16 |
|
Well -- |
| 01:23:17 |
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That's a question that gets created by a state regulation of some sort or an action by the state... |
| 01:23:47 |
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I'm reminded of one of your quotes that says you do make policy. And I won't continue that. I... |
| 01:24:23 |
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It depends on what they're applying that definition to. And so there are situations in which... |
| 01:24:49 |
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But you would not deny the fact that states do have the right to set up statutes that define,... |
| 01:24:59 |
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As I said, it depends on in what context they're attempting to do that. |
| 01:25:05 |
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They're doing it so they limit the liability of others with regard to that decision, which would... |
| 01:26:56 |
|
No, sir. |
| 01:26:57 |
|
Okay. Please educate me, if you would. |
| 01:27:00 |
|
In the Supreme Court's decision in Heller, it recognized an individual right to bear arms as... |
| 01:28:38 |
|
Through the 14th Amendment? |
| 01:28:39 |
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Through -- and others, but the -- generally. I shouldn't say "and others"; through the 14th. The... |
| 01:29:26 |
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Okay. |
| 01:29:26 |
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Was that right incorporated against the states? And we determined that, given Supreme Court... |
| 01:29:47 |
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Did the Supreme Court say in Heller that it definitely was not, or did they just fail to rule... |
| 01:29:52 |
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Well, they failed to rule on it, you're right, but I -- |
| 01:29:53 |
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Okay. There's a very big difference there. |
| 01:29:56 |
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I agree. |
| 01:29:56 |
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Okay. Let me continue with that. So I sit in Oklahoma in my home, and what we have today as... |
| 01:30:15 |
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It's not how "I" see the law. |
| 01:30:17 |
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Well, as you see the interpretation of the law today. In your opinion of what the law is today,... |
| 01:30:24 |
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No, it's not my interpretation; I was applying both Supreme Court precedent deciding that question... |
| 01:31:06 |
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So, what does the law say today about the statement? Where do we stand today about my statement... |
| 01:31:28 |
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I can't answer of incorporation other than to refer to precedent. Precedent says -- |
| 01:31:37 |
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I understand. |
| 01:31:37 |
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-- as the 2nd Circuit interpreted the Supreme Court's precedent -- |
| 01:31:40 |
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I understand that. |
| 01:31:41 |
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-- that it's not a -- it's not incorporated. It's also important to understand that the individual... |
| 01:31:57 |
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Context, yes. |
| 01:31:58 |
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And by that I mean what the court will look at is a state regulation of your right and then... |
| 01:32:19 |
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It's very interesting to me -- I went back and read the history of the debate on the 14th amendment.... |
| 01:34:05 |
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One of the frustrations with judges and their decisions by citizens is that -- and this was... |
| 01:35:35 |
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Right. |
| 01:35:37 |
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As you know, there are many states that prohibit felons from possessing guns. So does the federal... |
| 01:36:31 |
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Let -- thank you. Let me follow with one other question. As a citizen of this country, do you... |
| 01:36:54 |
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I'm trying to think if I remember a case where the Supreme Court has addressed that particular... |
| 01:37:47 |
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But do you have an opinion, or can you give me your opinion, of whether or not in this country... |
| 01:37:57 |
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I -- as I said, I don't -- |
| 01:37:59 |
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I'm talking about your -- |
| 01:38:00 |
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-- know. I don't know if that legal question has been ever presented. |
| 01:38:04 |
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I wasn't asking about the legal question. I'm asking about your personal opinion. |
| 01:38:08 |
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But that is sort of an abstract question -- |
| 01:38:15 |
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Well, it -- |
| 01:38:16 |
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-- with no -- no particular meaning to me outside -- |
| 01:38:20 |
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Well, I think that's what American people want to hear, Your Honor, is, they want to know, do... |
| 01:38:27 |
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Could I -- |
| 01:38:27 |
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-- does the Second Amendment mean something under the 14th Amendment? Does what the Constitution... |
| 01:39:09 |
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I know it's difficult to deal with someone as -- like a judge, who's so sort of -- whose thinking... |
| 01:39:19 |
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I know, it's hard. |
| 01:39:20 |
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But could I -- could I -- |
| 01:39:21 |
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Kind of like a doctor. I can't quit using doctor terms. I know that. |
| 01:39:23 |
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Exactly. That's exactly right. But let me -- let me try to address what you're saying in the... |
| 01:40:37 |
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You'll have lots of explaining to do. (Laughter.) |
| 01:40:38 |
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(Laughs.) I'd be in a lot of trouble then. But I couldn't do that under a definition of self-defense. |
| 01:40:46 |
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Okay. Let -- |
| 01:40:47 |
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And so that's what I was trying to explain in terms of why, in looking at this as a judge, I'm... |
| 01:41:05 |
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Yes, you know -- |
| 01:41:06 |
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Or not the -- |
| 01:41:07 |
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-- the problem is -- is -- is we think -- we doctors think like doctors. Hard to get out of... |
| 01:41:56 |
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I have actually agreed with Justice(s) Scalia and Thomas on the point that one has to be very... |
| 01:42:18 |
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But I accepted that. I said outside of those. |
| 01:42:21 |
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Well -- |
| 01:42:21 |
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In other areas where you will sit in judgment, can you cite for me the authority, either given... |
| 01:42:40 |
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My speech and my record on this issue -- because I've never used it to interpret the Constitution... |
| 01:42:59 |
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So there -- you stand by the -- there is no authority for a Supreme Court justice to utilize... |
| 01:43:11 |
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Unless the statute requires you or directs you to look at foreign law -- and some do, by the... |
| 01:43:39 |
|
Well, let me give you one of your quotes: "... to suggest to anyone that you can outlaw the... |
| 01:44:32 |
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There is none. If you look at my speech, you'll see that repeatedly I pointed out both that... |
| 01:46:08 |
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I'm not sure I agree with that on certain Eighth Amendment and 14th Amendment cases. Let... |
| 01:47:07 |
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We don't render decisions to -- we don't render decisions to please the home crowd, or any other... |
| 01:47:54 |
|
All right. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. |
| 01:47:57 |
|
Thank you, Mr. Coburn. Senator Whitehouse. |
| 01:48:04 |
|
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And welcome again, Your Honor. I have to say before I get into the... |
| 01:49:12 |
|
(Laughs.) |
| 01:49:13 |
|
And so I promised them that I would, so I'm keeping that promise right now. But I want... |
| 01:50:33 |
|
I can. That's the pledge I would take if I was -- that I took as district court judge, as a... |
| 01:50:49 |
|
Thank you. Some of my colleagues have raised questions about your role at the Puerto Rican... |
| 01:51:35 |
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That's correct. |
| 01:51:36 |
|
And in terms of the way that the Puerto Rican Legal Defense and Education Fund operated, you... |
| 01:51:49 |
|
I was. |
| 01:51:50 |
|
Did the attorneys for the Puerto Rican Legal Defense and Education Fund make it a practice to... |
| 01:52:09 |
|
No, because most of us on the board didn't have civil rights experience. I had actually -- when... |
| 01:52:31 |
|
And I think that's customary in charitable organizations -- for the board not to sign off specifically... |
| 01:53:04 |
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I don't believe any question was asked about my service on the Puerto Rican Legal Defense and... |
| 01:53:33 |
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Let me turn to some more general questions, if I may, and one has to do with the role of the... |
| 01:55:36 |
|
Like you, I am -- and perhaps because I was a state prosecutor and I have been a trial judge,... |
| 01:58:26 |
|
And does -- do -- does the Founders' concern about the potential vulnerabilities or liabilities... |
| 01:58:42 |
|
Senator, I -- as I see the jury system, I don't know exactly -- I don't actually -- and I've... |
| 02:00:01 |
|
And, where the jury requirement applies to civil trials, the argument would be the same, correct? |
| 02:00:07 |
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Yes. |
| 02:00:10 |
|
Again on the question of the American system of government, how would you characterize the Founders'... |
| 02:00:41 |
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The Constitution, by its terms, sets forth the powers and limits of each branch of government.... |
| 02:01:24 |
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Would you feel, in light of all of the attention -- very, very careful and thoroughly thought-out... |
| 02:02:15 |
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The best framework that has been set out on this question of a unilateral act by one branch... |
| 02:02:33 |
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Yes. |
| 02:02:34 |
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-- takes the action, typically. The best description of how to approach those questions was... |
| 02:04:52 |
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Let me change to a more law-enforcement- oriented topic. I appreciate, first of all, very much... |
| 02:09:31 |
|
I think, as I understand your question, Senator, that there are two issues -- if not more, but... |
| 02:10:04 |
|
Yes, which is a constant. |
| 02:10:06 |
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That -- |
| 02:10:07 |
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That stayed the same. |
| 02:10:07 |
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That's generally the structure. In -- not so long ago, the Supreme Court dealt with a technologically... |
| 02:10:47 |
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The FLIR case. |
| 02:10:48 |
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Exactly. And in that case, the reason for that case is that apparently -- I'm not an expert... |
| 02:15:38 |
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Your Honor, I thank you. I wish you well. |
| 02:15:41 |
|
Thank you. |
| 02:15:42 |
|
And I congratulate you on your appearance before this committee so far. |
| 02:15:48 |
|
Thank you. |
| 02:15:49 |
|
Senator Whitehouse, thank you. I appreciate the comments getting into the area of criminal law.... |
| 02:16:18 |
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(Laughs.) |
| 02:16:20 |
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We will take a 15-minute break. (Sounds gavel.) |