SHARE
TRANSCRIPT
| TIME | SPEAKER | TEXT |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:37 |
|
The committee will come to order. It's a real pleasure for me to welcome Ambassador Richard... |
| 00:07:27 |
|
Thank you so much, as always, Mr. Chairman. And thank you, Ambassador, and the... |
| 00:13:48 |
|
The time of the gentlelady has expired. We are now going to hear from the opening statements... |
| 00:14:31 |
|
ACKERMAN (D-NY): Thank you. Let's say that your pants were on fire. You'd have to do two things... |
| 00:17:36 |
|
The time of the gentleman has expired, and I'm now pleased to introduce our first witness. Ambassador... |
| 00:18:37 |
|
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is a great honor to appear before you as the first opportunity that... |
| 00:28:03 |
|
Well, thank you, Ambassador. And without objection, your entire statement will be included in... |
| 00:29:16 |
|
You know, the relationship within the United States and Pakistan which goes back to the birth... |
| 00:29:43 |
|
According to the Pakistani press. |
| 00:29:45 |
|
Yes. And you know, so what's actually, we had a kind of an echo chamber situation. If you analyze... |
| 00:31:01 |
|
And we won't talk about the parties. |
| 00:31:02 |
|
No. Please. But all joking aside, the fall of Swat created an air of panic, not in the United... |
| 00:35:04 |
|
My time has more than expired. I didn't mention, and I should, that I'll recognize people for... |
| 00:35:19 |
|
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you Mr. Ambassador. How would you describe Pakistan's commitment... |
| 00:36:39 |
|
Could you just -- the first point was which I got the second and the third. |
| 00:36:45 |
|
The commitment of the Pakistan in rooting out these militant groups. Are they hesitant because... |
| 00:36:57 |
|
On your first point, we have long felt that our friends in Pakistan could put more resources... |
| 00:38:43 |
|
Thank you -- |
| 00:38:44 |
|
-- into the record. |
| 00:38:45 |
|
-- Mr. Ambassador just because we have such limited time, would you say that related to the... |
| 00:38:57 |
|
The Indians? |
| 00:38:58 |
|
-- playing out for them? |
| 00:38:59 |
|
Ever since I took this job, India's been in election campaign. They're voting right now; there's... |
| 00:40:09 |
|
Sir and we certainly understand that you endorse that bill. You don't need to plug it in in... |
| 00:40:19 |
|
Well, since the ranking member has committed your administration's endorsement to my bill, I... |
| 00:40:43 |
|
Thank you. |
| 00:40:44 |
|
And Mr. Ackerman is recognized for five minutes. |
| 00:40:52 |
|
Thank you very much. Very good to see you again Mr. Ambassador. Congratulations. |
| 00:40:56 |
|
Thank you. |
| 00:40:59 |
|
The proposed sale of the new F-16s to Pakistan, will they be using that to fight the terrorists? |
| 00:41:13 |
|
You're talking now about the new planes or the midlife upgrades? What are we specifically referring... |
| 00:41:20 |
|
The F-16, C/D block 50/52s combat aircraft, 18 new ones. |
| 00:41:27 |
|
The 18 new ones? The -- first of all -- you know, as you know, the mid life upgrades are moving... |
| 00:42:45 |
|
What could you tell us in this open session about the ISI and their double game strategy as... |
| 00:43:08 |
|
Ever since I began working on this difficult issue, I've been well aware of the allegations... |
| 00:44:36 |
|
Inasmuch as you've brought up putting pressure on our friends, how much pressure should we put... |
| 00:44:45 |
|
I consider -- |
| 00:44:47 |
|
Mr. Chairman, could we just ask those people passing those signs around to put them down? |
| 00:44:53 |
|
Yeah. |
| 00:44:54 |
|
It's distracting. |
| 00:44:55 |
|
Will the gentleman please put down his sign? That is inappropriate in the committee hearing... |
| 00:45:09 |
|
Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If the Ambassador would continue. |
| 00:45:18 |
|
A.Q. Khan -- I find it hard to understand and I said publicly as a private citizen I found it... |
| 00:45:49 |
|
That was history with the previous -- |
| 00:45:50 |
|
I know. I understand. |
| 00:45:51 |
|
What do we do now? He's still there. He still knows what he knows and we still don't know what... |
| 00:45:58 |
|
I have raised it with the Pakistani government. Their response is, you know, this happened under... |
| 00:46:04 |
|
Yeah. But the guy still has the ability to talk and give us a sense -- |
| 00:46:07 |
|
I quite understand, Congressman. I share your -- |
| 00:46:11 |
|
If it's a good idea, should we make those F-16s conditional on talking to him to find out to... |
| 00:46:26 |
|
I do not think that linkage will help either half of the equation. But I certainly share your... |
| 00:46:49 |
|
Does the civilian government of Pakistan have control over the military? |
| 00:46:56 |
|
The military in Pakistan has a long tradition of serving within the government, but having a... |
| 00:47:07 |
|
But the government still has a strong tradition of being overthrown by the military. |
| 00:47:11 |
|
Well, that's another matter. We are strongly opposed to any such event, Congressman Ackerman. We... |
| 00:47:43 |
|
The time of the gentleman has expired. And the gentleman from California, Mr. Rohrabacher, is recognized. |
| 00:47:50 |
|
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Ambassador, I wish you well and I'm very pleased that you were... |
| 00:48:14 |
|
Thank you. |
| 00:48:14 |
|
First of all, let me note that I do agree with the ranking -- or excuse me -- with the chairman... |
| 00:49:44 |
|
The issues that you and Congressman Ackerman raised were -- should have been dealt with at the... |
| 00:50:24 |
|
Yes. |
| 00:50:25 |
|
-- to this issue. At this time, there is no evidence that he's actively engaged in these... |
| 00:51:13 |
|
I'm running out of time too. And let me just note that Pakistan -- if Pakistan is unwilling... |
| 00:52:15 |
|
Other elements in other countries have been sending money to the Taliban and al Qaeda. |
| 00:52:22 |
|
Does that include Saudi Arabia? |
| 00:52:23 |
|
It includes people in Saudi Arabia. |
| 00:52:26 |
|
Okay. |
| 00:52:27 |
|
I don't have any evidence it includes the government, but certainly money is flowing into what... |
| 00:52:55 |
|
Good luck on that operation. And also, I hope that we are going to do the drug deal -- the drug... |
| 00:53:03 |
|
The time of the gentleman has expired. The gentleman from Florida, Mr. Wexler, is recognized... |
| 00:53:07 |
|
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ambassador, we welcome you here as well and are routing very much for... |
| 00:53:43 |
|
Trainers. |
| 00:53:44 |
|
Yes. You very eloquently talk about the interdependence of our Afghanistan and Pakistan... |
| 00:54:51 |
|
On your first question, Congressman Wexler, I believe the troops will make an enormous difference.... |
| 00:55:48 |
|
Vis-a-vis certain -- the circumstances in Pakistan today, is it our understanding, do we have... |
| 00:55:55 |
|
In Afghanistan? |
| 00:55:57 |
|
No, in terms of what's happening in Pakistan. |
| 00:55:59 |
|
I'm sorry, I missed -- I misunderstood. In regard to al-Qaeda, I think it's very well described... |
| 00:57:55 |
|
Thank you very much. |
| 00:57:59 |
|
The time of the gentleman is expired. The gentleman from California, Mr. Royce, is recognized... |
| 00:58:05 |
|
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And, welcome, Ambassador Holbrooke. I joined Chairman Berman on his... |
| 00:59:40 |
|
Big issue for us. |
| 00:59:42 |
|
A couple other questions I'd just leave you with. One, you'd mentioned trade. And I want to... |
| 01:01:07 |
|
A very limited time, a lot of questions. Let me just take the -- |
| 01:01:10 |
|
Two minutes and 20 seconds. (Laughter.) |
| 01:01:14 |
|
-- 16 seconds, Mr. Chairman -- the Afghan contracting issue, I agree fully with you. But,... |
| 01:02:21 |
|
I think that requiring American fabric in this -- you know, you and I worked on the African... |
| 01:02:28 |
|
I remember. |
| 01:02:29 |
|
-- create economic growth. We double-traded between Africa and the United States. In my view,... |
| 01:03:11 |
|
I understand. As long as we agree that the general concept is correct, that's what I wanted... |
| 01:03:26 |
|
Ambassador, is there the will in the Swat Valley for the government to go in and get control... |
| 01:03:31 |
|
The government went back in yesterday, and this morning they have -- the deal broke down. President... |
| 01:03:53 |
|
Thank you, Ambassador. |
| 01:03:54 |
|
The time of the gentleman is expired. The gentleman from Virginia, Mr. Connolly, is recognized... |
| 01:04:00 |
|
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And, welcome, Ambassador Holbrooke. It's good to see you again. It's... |
| 01:04:35 |
|
Very simple, Congressman Connolly, the aid went for the wrong sort of assistance -- they didn't... |
| 01:05:37 |
|
Do we have an understanding, Mr. Ambassador, or growing understanding with the Pakistani government... |
| 01:05:44 |
|
There's no question, Congressman Connolly, that recent events have increased the readiness of... |
| 01:06:24 |
|
Because it just seems to me if we're going to have confidence in providing more aid to Pakistan... |
| 01:06:42 |
|
Well, I agree with that, and I think that's -- that can be shaped by the nature of the aid. |
| 01:06:50 |
|
Let me ask you also, Mr. Ambassador -- since President Zardari is here in town, and I know you're... |
| 01:07:08 |
|
A little -- (inaudible) -- |
| 01:07:09 |
|
-- some decisions have been made by the Pakistani government. These aren't things that were... |
| 01:08:02 |
|
Well, there's no way I'm going to defend the release of the Red Mosque leader, but it was not... |
| 01:09:24 |
|
My time is up. I want to thank you for joining us this morning. |
| 01:09:27 |
|
Thank you. |
| 01:09:27 |
|
The time of the gentleman has expired. The gentleman from Texas, Mr. Paul. |
| 01:09:30 |
|
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Welcome, Mr. Ambassador. I have a couple of concerns I want to... |
| 01:13:04 |
|
Congressman Paul, I did not say exactly what you imputed to me, but I have thought a long time... |
| 01:14:46 |
|
The time of the gentleman has expired. And the gentlelady from California, Ms. Woolsey, is recognized for... |
| 01:14:52 |
|
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you, Mr. Ambassador. President Obama recently expressed... |
| 01:15:58 |
|
Thank you very much for the question. Smart power -- which, by the way, is a phrase originated... |
| 01:16:48 |
|
Well, Mr. Ambassador, if the ratio to smart investment is one to 10, with the 10 being military... |
| 01:17:05 |
|
I don't think it is one to 10 anymore. It was. And if you look at the figures that this committee... |
| 01:17:38 |
|
Well, with Pakistan being a nuclear weapons state, how does that change our interaction? I mean,... |
| 01:17:51 |
|
I think that, prior to your arrival, we discussed that a bit, and I offered to discuss the issue... |
| 01:19:21 |
|
Well, do you see a pathway for Pakistan to become a partner for nonproliferation other than... |
| 01:19:41 |
|
I don't know. It's a very good question. We are wrestling with that and its related issues now.... |
| 01:19:51 |
|
Thank you very much, Mr. Ambassador. |
| 01:19:52 |
|
I want to be clear, Mr. Chairman, what I don't know is the precise answer to can they be a partner... |
| 01:20:03 |
|
I understand. And the record should so reflect. The gentleman from Texas, Mr. McCaul, is recognized... |
| 01:20:10 |
|
I thank the chairman and I thank you, Ambassador, for being here and your service. I commend... |
| 01:22:03 |
|
You know, on January 12th, 2002, if my memory is correct, President Musharraf gave a widely-hailed... |
| 01:24:10 |
|
I certainly agree -- |
| 01:24:12 |
|
This is a very nuanced issue; I don't want anyone to think we're diminishing the importance... |
| 01:24:41 |
|
And I agree with that assessment. The issue on conditioning the foreign aid, tying it to security. |
| 01:24:49 |
|
Say again, sir? |
| 01:24:51 |
|
We have $6.7 billion in military aid; it seems to me we ought to condition that aid upon certain... |
| 01:25:00 |
|
Well, both those issues we addressed at length earlier, but let me just say that it is understandable... |
| 01:26:04 |
|
Thank you. |
| 01:26:04 |
|
The time of the gentleman has expired. The gentlelady from Texas, Ms. Sheila Jackson-Lee, recognized... |
| 01:26:13 |
|
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and let me add my appreciation -- I was going to begin, Ambassador... |
| 01:29:53 |
|
Let me start by thanking you for co-chairing the Pakistan Caucus and saying that Secretary Clinton... |
| 01:30:22 |
|
And it's a great opportunity. The people of America who are Pakistani are very interested in... |
| 01:30:27 |
|
You will recall, Mr. Chairman, that when Secretary Clinton testified she referred frequently... |
| 01:31:06 |
|
It's Operation Shirdil, S-H-I-R-D-I-L, and it's in the -- it's in the Bajaur area and allegedly... |
| 01:31:24 |
|
Bajaur is where the -- that is going on and -- and we don't have enough reports to know how... |
| 01:31:29 |
|
Ambassador, the -- the time of the gentle lady has expired. Perhaps, you know, through -- through... |
| 01:31:44 |
|
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. |
| 01:31:44 |
|
I am told the ambassador, Holbrooke, and I -- I wasn't aware of this. He has to leave at 2:00... |
| 01:31:53 |
|
Mr. Chairman, this came up while we were here. The White House asked if I could get right down.... |
| 01:31:57 |
|
Okay. So we -- we will have no more -- we will have no time for more than three at the most... |
| 01:32:09 |
|
Well, Mr. Chairman, what I'll do is just try to put all my questions together so that we can... |
| 01:32:55 |
|
I don't -- |
| 01:32:57 |
|
Well -- |
| 01:32:59 |
|
With great respect, Mr. -- Congressman, I -- I don't think it would serve the national interest... |
| 01:33:07 |
|
Well, and I'm -- I would like to attend a closed session where we can get this information.... |
| 01:33:45 |
|
You have a great talent, Congressman, for asking questions that are very sensitive, very tough,... |
| 01:33:53 |
|
Okay. |
| 01:33:54 |
|
I think it might be worth a private session if -- (inaudible). |
| 01:33:58 |
|
Yes. And I have one more question so I won't (bottle ?) up any more time. We talked about these... |
| 01:34:48 |
|
Congressman Burton, you're three for three on questions I think we ought to discuss in private.... |
| 01:35:16 |
|
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I hope we'll have a classified meeting (inaudible). |
| 01:35:18 |
|
Would you yield -- would you yield, Mr. Burton? |
| 01:35:22 |
|
I -- well, yes. |
| 01:35:25 |
|
You are very limited on time. |
| 01:35:25 |
|
I won't ask a question. I just want to make sure that we all can join in that classified briefing. |
| 01:35:31 |
|
Thank you. |
| 01:35:30 |
|
Oh, yes. I would not convene a classified briefing just for Mr. Burton. (Laughter.) But I would... |
| 01:35:40 |
|
We will follow that up and now the gentleman from Georgia, Mr. Scott, recognized for five minutes. |
| 01:35:47 |
|
Thank you very much, Ambassador Holbrooke. Welcome. I want to just make a point because I think... |
| 01:36:20 |
|
And -- (inaudible). |
| 01:36:22 |
|
Now, we have before us -- |
| 01:36:24 |
|
Nuclear weapons in the center and al Qaeda in the west. |
| 01:36:28 |
|
Absolutely, and I want to get to both of those but -- but I do want to say that we're giving... |
| 01:38:45 |
|
Mr. Scott, we can define the objective very clearly and President Obama did that very clearly... |
| 01:39:45 |
|
And in terms of al Qaeda -- in terms of al Qaeda and in terms of the Taliban -- in terms of... |
| 01:40:05 |
|
Not quite 60 but very close when they took Buner. But they've been driven out of Buner and the... |
| 01:40:43 |
|
We certainly will. And finally, I have eight seconds -- well, I have no seconds. Thank... |
| 01:40:50 |
|
Could we have one more? |
| 01:40:52 |
|
Of course. |
| 01:40:53 |
|
Mr. Costa of California for five minutes. |
| 01:40:56 |
|
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. And thank you, Ambassador. I appreciate your good work.... |
| 01:41:54 |
|
How do we succeed? Well, we're putting into place a huge array of different plans. This bill... |
| 01:42:13 |
|
To (ascertain ?) that the money we provide actually gets to the local levels not -- |
| 01:42:17 |
|
Am I certain? I'm pretty certain that the money in the past did not get -- very much of it got... |
| 01:43:23 |
|
I appreciate that, Mr. Ambassador. And there's some local investments in California that have... |
| 01:43:37 |
|
Delighted. |
| 01:43:38 |
|
Pakistan. Same theme. I read the article that you referenced twice now. Two different kinds... |
| 01:44:25 |
|
We are working with your committee on these, what you called, milestones. I think my colleagues... |
| 01:44:43 |
|
And the question hasn't been asked, but it's been inferred to, we hope the current government... |
| 01:45:00 |
|
If we have a back-up plan were going -- of the sort you mean, we're just going to publicly undermine... |
| 01:45:41 |
|
I appreciate that. I understand that. |
| 01:45:43 |
|
But I do want to underscore again, this is a country that has had over half its history in military... |
| 01:45:51 |
|
The time of the gentleman has expired. We have one last person here. Do you think, as... |
| 01:46:06 |
|
(Off mike.) |
| 01:46:08 |
|
I just have one question, Mr. Ambassador. Like everybody has lauded you, I want... |
| 01:46:52 |
|
Great question! President Zardari has often been accused of being too pro- American. And... |
| 01:47:22 |
|
And the only thing I'd say, because I do think that's a very important question, but we just... |
RELATED PROGRAMS
DETAILS
PEOPLE GRID LIST
-
-
Ackerman, Gary
U.S. Representative (Former) [D] 7 -
Berman, Howard L.
U.S. Representative [D] 26 -
Burton, Danny "Dan" Lee
U.S. Representative [R] 6 -
Connolly, Gerald "Gerry" E.
U.S. Representative [D] Virginia -
Costa, Jim
U.S. Representative [D] California -
Ellison, Keith
U.S. Representative [D] Minnesota -
Jackson Lee, Sheila
U.S. Representative [D] 18 -
McCaul, Michael
U.S. Representative [R] Texas -
Paul, Ron
U.S. Representative [R] 14 -
Rohrabacher, Dana
U.S. Representative (Former) [R] 42 -
Ros-Lehtinen, Ileana
U.S. Representative [R] 18 -
Royce, Edward
U.S. Representative [R] 39 -
Scott, David
U.S. Representative [D] Georgia -
Wexler, Robert
U.S. Representative [D] 19 -
Woolsey, Lynn
U.S. Representative [D] 6