The hearing will come to order. We are going to be

very good on time today, because this is...

The gentleman receives four minutes.

The gentleman from Pennsylvania is recognized for five...

Next, the gentleman from Delaware is recognized for

two minutes.

The gentlewoman from California is recognized for

two minutes.

The gentleman from New York, Mr. King, is recognized

for two minutes.

The gentleman from North Carolina is recognized for

one and one-half minutes.

The gentleman from Illinois is recognized for one

and a half minutes, Mr. Manzullo.

The gentleman from New York is recognized for two

minutes, Mr. Ackerman.

The gentleman's time has expired.

The gentlewoman from Illinois is recognized for a minute and...

The gentleman from California is recognized for

three minutes.

The gentleman from Texas I believe is next for a

minute and a half.

The gentleman from Georgia is recognized for two

minutes.

The gentleman's time has expired. The gentleman

from New Jersey is recognized for a minute and...

The gentlewoman from Florida for a minute and a

half.

You're welcome.

The gentleman from Texas for one minute.

We have three more statements. Let me just explain.

We do this by time. On the Democratic side...

Well, I would say anybody who is here on a whole

horse would get some consideration, but I'm...

The gentleman from Georgia is recognized for a

minute and a half.

Final statement is two minutes from the gentleman

from Michigan, Mr. McCotter.

We will now begin the statements. I, at this point,

would ask unanimous consent to enter into...

Thank you, Mr. Gettelfinger.

And Mr. Mulally.

Thank you very much.

Mr. Nardelli.

Before I get to Mr. Wagoner I want to make an

announcement for us. I --- managing this fairly...

Alright, let me have on the Democratic side the

first member in seniority who did not ask last...

As we've discussed somewhat in our report, the

analysis that we've seen suggestions that if...

Let me, from a Chrysler perspective, I just want

to reinforce a couple of comments I made in...

Can I just comment that you're correct. The data

-- that is the impact on the financial system...

I thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Gettelfinger, I'd just like to thank you. We often fault the

union...

Yes, I know.

Congressman, the short answer for Chrysler is I've

talked with our National Dealer Council and...

Okay. Just on another subject quickly, if this

does not work -- I mean, we've seen your plans...

Thank you.

The next Democrat who did not get to question this panel? Mr.

Wilson.

Let me say, we did not keep the list, but we will

check afterwards. (Laughter.) Mr. Wilson.

Yes, that's our view.

The specific request that we have for GM relates to

GM's funding only. We are working closely...

The gentleman from New York, Mr. King.

Thank you very much for the question.

I'd like to first of all say that...

Congressman, if I could just very quickly to allow

the others to comment. In our plan, we're...

Yes, our plan comprehends the same approach, use

actually the short-term advance of funding...

The gentleman from Florida Mr. Klein.

Congressman, let me say, first of all, I couldn't

agree with you more. Two is we ought to use...

For my side in fact, in our submission, we

specifically raise the concept. I would have to put...

Yeah. And I would like not just to talk about the

supplier chain. I understand some of that...

Thank you.

As you all know, back in 1980, the government got warrants from

Chrysler. And...

All right.

And one reason I mention that is, of course, AIG

did just that. They borrowed $85 billion or...

You know, Citibank and AIG got relief over a

weekend without ever coming to Congress. Congress...

And during the last year, there's been no

moratorium. You still haven't heard about that, have...

Okay. That would help, wouldn't it?

Toyota -- (inaudible) -- Volkswagen, they have that

advantage over you. Ford has had one, a...

Yeah, it's amazing to me.

Let me conclude by saying GMAC has had an application for a bank

holding...

Under consideration.

You know, Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs, they got expedited

status...

Sure.

(Inaudible) -- this Committee and the chairman and

I moved legislation, with the support of...

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I want to thank the witnesses for appearing today and thank you

for...

So is your -- is Chrysler's answer 4 (billion

dollars) to $5 billion on the credit side?

And do you think that's sufficient, under the

current circumstances?

GM? Ford?

(Strikes gavel.)

Mr. Mulally, if you can do it very quickly.

Quickly, Mr. Mulally.

Twelve (billion dollars) more. (Strikes gavel.)

The gentleman from California, Mr. Royce.

I'll be glad to start.

When we go into new or newer markets, frankly, we don't take some

of...

You bet.

As you all know, Ford has grown up as a global company very

regionally operated,...

It would have a huge impact for us. We would --

because right now we either can't get credit,...

Thank you, Mr. Chairman --

Well, I understand that, but the five minutes --

(inaudible) -- to people, leave people no time...

Well, I mean, it undoubtedly would help to level

the playing field for the industry. I remember...

We at GM have a fairly significant collateral pool

that has not been pledged yet, of assets....

I think one of the things that makes a lot of people

nervous -- there are conservatives, and...

Thank you.

I would yield back.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I am quite distressed over the continuous talk coming from the

Big...

You've already brought it back?

All right.

Mr. Mulally?

Okay.

The other question that I have is -- for Ford, on page 17 of your

plan you state...

Would you answer my question, please?

I understand that. Does that mean that we're

going to lose more fastener, and tool and dye industry...

I'm talking about the suppliers.

So, you're telling us that if you get the money

-- and by the way, I think everybody in this...

You didn't answer the question. Are you going to

use U.S. taxpayers' dollars to resource or...

-- for American manufacturers?

Thank you.

The gentlewoman from Illinois, Ms. Bean.

I think that's a great observation and I think one

of the earlier questioners highlighted a...

Absolutely. Another great point. To your point,

when you look at more the local advertised and...

Yes, I think a great suggestion. One of the

things we did to try and dispel the whole issue...

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Gentlemen, no reason you should remember everyone's opening

comments,...

Mr. Nardelli, please?

Let me ask another question. There was a

report on CBS News last night that you gentlemen have...

Zero. Zero has been spent on either this -0

trying to reprogram the earlier money or to get...

Or zero has been -- I'm sorry, Mr. Nardelli,

zero has been expended where?

That was -- I thought it was an either or

question as far as how does the 50 million (dollars)...

Thank you.

Last question, I know my time is running out here.

(Laughs.)

Thank you, Mr. Chairman -- (laughter) -- I will

yield.

Your viability plans assume a significant

recovery in the unit volume over time and I would...

Okay. But do you have a feeling whether this

means that there would be a 20 percent drop? You...

I would only answer that our forecast for 2009 is

the exit rate of 2008. In other words, we're...

I don't know exactly on the transplants. Seventy-

eight percent of our purchase material is...

Yes.

No, no. U.S. supplier -- U.S. manufacturers -- 78

percent.

It could, sir. I don't know that split out --

that secondary split-out of that. But 78 percent...

I don't know --

I am personally confident -- we're putting a lot of

money, for example, in the Chevy Volt I...

Well, actually, I drove one yesterday that will

leap ahead of what anybody has on the market...

I'll tell you, I drove over today -- you mentioned

fuel cells, but the way the fuel cell drive...

Well, but that's why the concept that we're putting

in the Volt, which is an extended-range...

I thank the chairman.

Again, thanks to the members of the panel for being here.

Let me...

Okay. And the other gentlemen?

From our perspective, we've said however the short-

term funding comes is up to the Congress.

I...

Sir, for us -- or Chrysler -- I mentioned the two

points about the 500 dealers, 250 or so are...

But we want to help them! I mean, they are an

integral part of our success. Without the dealers...

Mm-hmm. (In agreement.)

And I see the yellow light. I have the time --

there's the red light.

Okay.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

And thank you again for joining us.

At our last hearing I asked...

There appears to be --

Apparently there was a miscommunication, but the

gentlewoman did ask of this panel the last...

And that was --

The gentlewoman from Florida.

Sure. It's a question that has been asked

yesterday, and just to try and bring some clarity,...

Yes.

Yes. I mean, exactly. We've asked them; we've

asked every major financial institution. All hundred...

They said -- first of all, let me be clear. They

already put the equity in to create the company....

Yes, our plan calls for a reduction in the number

of dealers of about 1,800 over the next four...

Mr. Chairman, could I ask them, though, to

submit their answers in writing, please?

Beyond what we already have put in it over the past

several years, it's about $20 billion more.

Over a period of time that, if I recall, is about

eight to 10 years.

Yes, and we have put in 3 (billion dollars) and we

have 7 (billion dollars) more to go.

We have 11.3 billion (dollars) more to go.

Yes, sir, and beyond the numbers we just gave you,

we have ongoing, every year, healthcare costs...

Yes, sir.

All right, and, Mr. Gettelfinger, I think the union

has gotten far too little credit, first...

Right, but you just made a decision to even ease

that.

Tell me what that was.

And what have you just decided to do?

So you've made a significant offer here that puts

off the need for that. The relevance of it...

Well, I appreciate that, and I think -- you know, I

have to say I wish among the mistakes the...

Yeah, I mean, we aren't just starting this now.

We've reduced, for example -- over the last...

-- aggressive and painful step.

Well, first of all, the pension legacy costs we

paid for. That's done. Our pension plans are...

No, I think if you look at the plan that we've

submitted -- it's a 120-page document -- what...

I believe it does.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Gentlemen, let me ask you a few questions. One, you were

examined...

Well, then why didn't they give you money?

Why won't they give you any money?

I think she indicated they had $20 billion on

hand -- $24 billion. That's a considerable amount...

Oh, I see. But the taxpayers of the United

States have that money on hand and we should provide...

I listened intently to the Senate examination

yesterday and I thought Senator Corker was excellent,...

For General Motors the number, we've indicated we

need up to 4 billion (dollars) at the end...

Yes, sir, but we do have collateral that we could

offer against that.

We believe we have sufficient liquidity. We do not

need any money.

Yes. Can I make one more comment, sir? It's

important.

We were hoping to use the 90-day period to do

exactly what you suggest, which is to work with...

The gentleman from Georgia, Mr. Price.

Yes sir. What we are doing, we're looking at

that. But I would just like to point out to you...

What we're doing right now, sir, we have taken

action on Wednesday of this week to suspend the...

If I could just comment, in many cases those

companies are seeking support from their own governments...

Sure -- sure, yes sir.

Sir, from our standpoint unfortunately we've not

been profitable. So there is no federal tax...

No they are.

We have not explored significant opportunities on

how to get those down.

Nothing to add except that I think that what wet we

did last year during the 2007 Energy Independence...

Same position on taxation. We don't currently pay

taxes because we owe a tax loss carry-forward...

The gentlewoman from California.

The current financial structure of Chrysler

Financial is the arm that is providing the capital...

It does come out of the financial arm. I don't

know the exact amount --

You're exactly right. Due to the capacity

limitations on Chrysler Financial, because they've...

Well, I don't -- to be honest with you, I don't

know the extent of the financial funds available...

Absolutely. In Ford's case, as you well know, we

have the Ford Motor Credit Corporation. And...

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

In my opening statement I asked a question about what are the

reasons...

So you know the answers why people aren't buying

your cars.

If you look at the --

Yeah, let me -- I'd like the opportunity to answer,

because I didn't get a chance.

We...

We have, as I've mentioned earlier, significant

collateral that is undesignated right now. I'm...

We certainly would hope so, that if we received

approval and got access to the window -- as...

I would observe -- I think that's a comment that

for some of them, not all of them, by the way,...

Right. And it depends on, you know, if it's an

all-new vehicle from ground up it's going to...

The gentlewoman from New York.

So let me try and go first. It is not our intent

to use the $7 billion, if we are fortunate...

Yeah. I would just add that we've been of a view

and continue to have a view that a single national...

We agree with one national standard.

Without objection.

Just in the interest of time, our report lays out

our fuel economy average plans, but they involve...

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank the panelists too for coming before us.

I have a question...

So payroll and deduction costs and --

And that --

Okay, is it the same --

So you're anticipating that by March 1st, the sales

will pick back up and things will -- the...

Okay. And another question I have was obviously

the dealers have made a push to all of us. And...

Anyway, getting back to the dealers, they are very

fearful of the bankruptcy option. They feel...

Right. Well, I mean, I've already had two people

tell me in the last week they had options;...

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I thought I

was about to get cut off, so I appreciate you extending...

Well, we've got a Volt that's sitting out there now

that won't be on the market until 2012.

Is there anything to do -- or 2010, I guess. Is

there anything that can be done to advance that...

And what can you do to protect those who are willing

to take the first generation as you evolve...

I think one specific answer is we went to Denso,

which is one of the -- (inaudible) -- companies...

Well, unfortunately, there has been a lot of

restructuring taking place in the industry. If...

But the point is, there's been major

restructuring going on in the industry, and it's been extremely

painful...

That's the part of it that people don't understand.

Give me something in writing so I can send it to Al

and Stacey.

All right.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I

appreciate your indulgence.

I have a question, but I'd like...

I'll just start. There were two for us; asked if

the bankruptcy would impact employees' abilities...

Even though we are not requesting a bridge loan,

it's so important -- this industry is so important....

The panel is dismissed with our thanks. And we will

ask them to leave quickly. The people that...

Thank you very much.

Mr. Rohatyn? (Sic)

Thank you very much, Mr. Altman.

Now, Mr. Rohatyn.

Could you just pull your mike a little bit closer?

(Strikes gavel.)

Thank you.

And we created, essentially, in a city which was

heavily a union city, we created a partnership...

All right.

Thank you, Madame Chairwoman, and thank you,

members of the Committee. I truly appreciate the...

And create new jobs along the way. Thank you.

Thank you, Madame Chairwoman and members of the

Committee. I want to thank you for inviting...

Madame Chairman?

I have a parliamentary enquiry.

I noticed that this witness is not on the memo to us, nor do...

I certainly don't want to, you know, dismiss the

testimony. And I, you know -- it's very relevant...

Thank you.

I made the decision to add Mr. Lester, as I made the

decision to extend the time to accommodate...

No, it is a --

It's a response, at the last minute, to someone

calling to my attention, a mistake. And I realize...

You're pretty free with our weekends Mr. Sachs.

(Scattered laughter.)

You may have to give notes to our responsive

spouses, significant others and children.

First...

Did they declare -- they didn't declare bankruptcy

did they?

Do you think they should have? I mean, why -- why

the requirement for bankruptcy here and not...

No, I understand that but ---

I understand that but I still --- it does seem to me

that there is a difference in the treatment...

What's the justification for being harsher, in

effect, legally on the auto companies than on...

You don't think if AIG was told they have to declare

some sort of bankruptcy they would've thought...

Well if AIG had been told that they had to declare

some sort of bankruptcy etcetera, you don't...

They would have?

Then why isn't it harsher than the auto companies

than it was for AIG?

Well we changed the management of AIG without

bankruptcy and we restructured.

I just don't -- again, I just don't understand why

you have to take the extra step of bankruptcy...

Now you, you do substantive, we'll do popular.

Or unpopular. Mr. Sachs.

Thank you. Mr. Friedman, one last question. And I

began -- Ms. Mahoney ably carried out on the...

Well I understand that but, in practical matter,

what would the effect be if they got out? Would...

The gentlewoman from Illinois.

Well I'm not sure that people are avoiding cars

because they're just holding back and waiting...

Well, I think there are two steps that we need.

One in general for buying cars, I do think that...

Well, I do worry that there are risks of robbing

Peter to pay Paul if that money is shifted...

I think, overall, that is one mechanism that would

be able to stimulate consumers to begin to...

The gentlewoman from California. I miss you? I'm

sorry, the gentleman from Pennsylvania. I was...

Thank you very much, Congressman. I think in general

the logic that you're making a loan against...

It made a huge positive contribution.

And on the --

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I'm actually going to follow up along the same lines, Professor,

that...

And just briefly, you basically, I think in

answering Mr. Kanjorski -- you are agreeing that...

Good. Thank you.

Mr. Dodaro, have you looked -- has your office looked at these

numbers...

That's right. But we assume you're a lot brighter

in this area than we are.

Well, I agree. I think clearly we need the board.

I think clearly we need your engagement and...

Thank you.

Thank you very, Mr. Chairman.

I have tried to concentrate my efforts on the small dealerships.

One...

I understand, if I may, that many of these small

independent banks have operated very well for...

Are the big automobile manufacturers that were here

today -- are they calling in their loans...

Do you believe that if we are to rescue these big

automobile manufacturers, we should insist...

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. Professor Sachs, I want to welcome you

and express to you that I've enjoyed our friendship...

Absolutely.

Right. And I think you're dealing with -- you

know, restructuring, it usually takes years, I...

Yeah, so it's not a short and sweet process.

That was actually where I was going with it. You

know, it is a process of several months at...

Which brings me to this: They're going to need

financing. You don't have restructuring without...

And you have to really, I think, have restructuring

-- you have to have a successful restructuring...

Yes.

But, you know, if you give them 20 million (sic)

(dollars) without structural changes, then...

Let me say -- let me wrap it up by saying this --

because my time will expire -- I'm very disappointed,...

The gentleman from North Carolina.

Yes.

I don't put the Chrysler situation really different

-- so different from the other two in that...

Yes.

Because there is no chance of financing that gives

them the way out, that may be their best...

Yeah, because it may just go under. If there's no

financing for restructuring --

-- it doesn't make sense.

I think this also is relevant for this restructuring

issue. We can't send a signal that we're...

And then finally -- sorry -- if I might, Congressman

-- just to emphasize, we don't need Chapter...

-- and preserve value -- preserve value.

Yeah, sorry.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I'd have to add up for each of them, which we

can do on that basis, but it's somewhere...

Yeah, something like that.

And -- yes.

What I'm suggesting in the reality of this is that

what we're doing right now is getting to...

Basically, you know, we had suggested, if the

Congress makes the determination they want to...

Yes, yes. The only additional point that I would

make, Congressman, is that even in the short...

Yeah, what I'm talking about, though, would be more

rigorous than what's in the TARP program...

Thank you very much. I'd like to submit for the

record a letter from John Lewis, relative to...

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I'd like to say "Amen" to the sermon by -- (scattered laughter)

--...

I would endorse the --

-- the need to move quickly.

My fear is that if we move and we do it with a band-aid or two...

I think that's what the problem is now.

The requirements that the financial institutions, as

well as the captives have put on the consumer,...

I think if TARP, loosening up -- making the

announcement, I think, a week before last, about...

Yes.

Thank you.

(Gavel sounds.)

(Off mike) -- I think it -- (audio break) --

I think it's terribly important, because people are

going to be listening to what comes out...

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

And, I guess, Mr. Rohatyn, I was -- that's exactly where I was

going...

No, if we were to take a Chapter 11, we could

have a priming loan. I'm not suggesting a Chapter...

-- that is senior to any other interest.

And I don't know why we couldn't do that

otherwise.

Right. But I -- anybody else want to respond?

And why?

(Off mike.)

But Professor, but you can do that in --

You can do that in Chapter 11 now.

But we're asked to come in with $34 billion in

an emergency to keep these companies afloat so...

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think

these hearings show that we ought to pass a bill. Our best...

So this would only be voluntary? Is there a way

for us to write a statute that makes it mandatory?

I'm a little concerned about the takings clause.

Okay. Mr. Sachs, a new line of questioning.

Let's say the doubters are right, and all we can...

So if we were to spend --

No, I'm just saying worst-case -- if we put in the

money, one of the reasons to put in the money...

Another reason to put in the money is maybe we can

delay by 12 months their failure to survive....

Oh, I just started with a worst-case assumption.

I'm not asking you to embrace it.

Mr. Rohatyn, if I'm pronouncing that correctly,

the chairman's draft calls for us to get warrants...

I would disagree with you. If we're taking 99

percent of the risk, I hope we do end up with...

Thank you, Chairman.

I'm sorry I missed your testimony. I was working with two small

manufacturers...

They probably won't get it.

Well, the additional money. I mean, this

Congress is very reluctant. I mean, if this is emergency...

How can you preserve if the companies are out of

business?

They don't have a future, based upon what they

said, unless they get billions of dollars upfront....

I understand. Anybody else? I just can't -- I

can't agree with what you're saying because what...

The problem they aren't making loans to the Big

Three --

-- is the plan, the plans are woefully

insufficient.

Anybody else? You have to push the button.

I mean, the plan isn't there. You've got GMC

that wants to go into the, into the, GM wants to...

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

One number that I'd be -- I think is

absolutely crucial and I'd like to see developed by a trusted...

Congressman I don't think, with all respect, that

it's really the question for this weekend...

If that's a question, Congressman, I would disagree

with that --

(Cross talk.)

--...

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you all for

participating.

I have two trains of thought...

All right, but --

All right, let me --

-- let me ask you a further question.

Does it make sense -- and this is a question for any of...

Thank you.

Now, the other train of thought: Cerberus really troubles me.

They paid $7...

Thank you.

I yield back.