Another very bad day on Wall Street, as both of you know. Both

of you proposed new plans this...

All right.

Senator Obama.

All right.

Would you like to ask him a question?

Is that what you want to do?

(Audio break.)

You know what Senator Obama ended up his

conversation with Joe the plumber? "We need to spread...

I'm not going to -- I'm not going do that in my

administration.

We're talking about Joe the plumber. (Laughs.)

If nobody likes taxes, let's not raise anybody's

taxes, okay?

The fact is that businesses in America today are

paying the second-highest tax rate of anywhere...

Well, first of all, I think, it's important for the

American public to understand that the $750...

Absolutely. So let me get to that.

What I want to emphasize though is that I have been a strong

proponent...

Well, thank you, Bob. I just want to get back to

this homeownership. During the Depression era,...

But --

Okay. All right. Energy -- on -- well, first --

second of all, energy-independent -- we have...

Well, one of them would be the marketing assistance

program.

Another one would be a --...

We'll cut out all the pork.

Well, look, I -- I think that we do have a

disagreement about a(n) across-the-board spending...

Sure, I do. And let me --

Yeah.

Senator Obama, I am not President Bush. If you wanted to run

against President Bush,...

And I will reduce the -- I can -- we can do it with

this kind of job creation of energy independence.

Now,...

Well, the -- there was a lot of stuff that was put

out there, so let me try to address it.

First...

I support charter schools and pay-for-performance

for teachers. Doesn't make me popular with...

Let me -- let me just say, Bob --

Okay. But it's -- it's very clear that I have

disagreed with the Bush administration. I have...

Senator Obama, your -- your -- your argument for

standing up to the leaders of your party isn't...

Well, this has been a tough campaign. It's been a

very tough campaign.

And...

-- since Watergate.

That's not true.

Well, if you'll turn on the television, as I -- I

watched the Arizona Cardinals defeat the Dallas...

Every other ad -- (laughter) -- every other ad was

an attack ad on my health care plan.

And...

(Laughs.) You've got to read what he said --

You've got to read what he said.

Go ahead.

I cannot --

Yeah.

We do, and I hope we talk about it.

All right, sure.

Well --

Well, let -- let me just say, I -- I --

Let me just say categorically I'm proud of the

people that come to our rallies. Whenever you...

So the point is -- the point is that I have

repudiated every time someone has been out of line,...

I mean, do you take issue with that?

Well --

Well, Bob, you asked me a direct question about --

Yeah, real quick.

Mr. Ayers, I don't care about an old, washed-up terrorist. But

as Senator...

-- of course.

I think it's going to be -- it's going to be

important to just -- I'll respond to these two...

That's absolutely not true.

That's not the facts.

All right. All right. Let's go to the next

topic. And you -- we may want to get back into some...

Senator.

Do you think she's qualified to be president?

Do you think Senator Biden is qualified?

Let's go to -- let's go to a new topic here.

We're running a little behind.

Let's talk...

Climate change, yes -- has said what both of you

have said, and that is we must reduce our dependence...

All right.

Can we reduce our dependence on foreign oil, and by how much in

the first term,...

Senator.

Let me respond. Actually I understand it pretty

well.

The history in Colombia right now...

All right. Let's go to a new topic, health care.

Given the current economic situation, would...

All right.

Senator McCain.

Is that your objective?

It is -- it is not. And I just described it --

I just described what my plan is. And I'm happy to

talk to you, Joe, too, if you're out there....

You won't pay a fine because -- zero -- because I --

as I said in our last debate -- and I'll...

Joe, you're rich. Congratulations, because what

Joe wanted to do was buy the business that's...

-- the size of government has grown by 40 percent

in the last eight years. We can't afford that...

Very brief.

You all just heard my plan. If you've got an employer-based

health care plan,...

I would never and have never, in all the years I've

been there, impose a litmus test on any...

I think it was a bad decision. I thought it was a

-- I thought it was a bad decisions. I think...

-- not legislating from the bench.

I would consider anyone in their qualifications. I

do not believe that someone who has supported...

Well, I think it's true that we shouldn't apply a

strict litmus test and the most important...

-- and that's the kind of judge that I want.

Obviously, that law waived the statute of

limitations, which you could have gone back 20 or...

Yeah, let -- let me respond to this.

If -- if it sounds incredible that I would vote to withhold

lifesaving...

Just again -- just again the example of the

eloquence of Senator Obama. He's -- health of the...

This probably has more to do with our economic

future than anything. And that means it also...

Well, it -- it's the civil rights issue of the 21st

century. There's no doubt that we have achieved...

Well --

Well, we have a tradition of local control of the

schools, and that's a tradition that has served...

Well, sure. I'm sure you're aware, Senator Obama,

of the program in the Washington, D.C., school...

-- because they wanted to have the same choice that

you and I and Cindy and your wife have had...

-- and that is because they wanted to choose the

school that they thought was best for their...

Who supports vouchers --

She supports vouchers also.

All right.

All right.

Gentlemen, we have come to the close. Before I ask both of you

for your closing...

Senator.

Senator Obama, Senator McCain, thank you very

much. (Scattered applause.) This concludes the...