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| TIME | SPEAKER | TEXT |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:11 |
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NOW A HOUSE HEARING ON DETAINEE INTERGHATION. WITNESSES INCLUDE VICE PRESIDENT CHENEY'S CHIEF OF ... |
| 00:00:41 |
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THIS HEARING WILL COME TO ORDER. TODAY'S HEARING WILL BE THE THIRD IN OUR SERIES OF HEARINGS ON THE... |
| 00:04:06 |
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THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. I THINK ALL THE PANELISTS WITH US TODAY. I SAID BEFORE THE SUBJECT OF DETAINEE... |
| 00:07:33 |
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WHAT KIND OF STATUTE WOULD I WRITE? I WOULD WRITE A STATUTE THAT SAYS WHEN YOU ARE INTERROGATING ... |
| 00:07:52 |
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MR. CHAIRMAN, I WANT YOU TO KNOW AS SINCERELY AS I CAN SAY I WISH THIS LADY WERE CORRECT. I WISH IT... |
| 00:09:36 |
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WHAT? WE WOULD HAVE LIKED TESTIMONY, TOO. BUT WITHOUT OBJECTION. |
| 00:09:41 |
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THANK YOU. THANK YOU. I UNDERSTAND MR. ADDINGTON MAY BE REFERRED TO SOME OF THESE THINGS TODAY. ELECTRONIC... |
| 00:09:52 |
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YOU ARE QUITE WELCOME. WHAT I WAS AFRAID OF IS WE EXPECT WITNESSES TO SUBMIT WRITTEN TESTIMONY. MR.... |
| 00:10:36 |
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THANK YOU CHAIRMAN NADLER, RANKING MEMBER FRANCE, AND ALL OF MY COLLEAGUES HERE. THIS IS AN IMPORTANT... |
| 00:13:17 |
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WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO HERE TODAY IS IMPORTANT. NOW THE GUIDANCE PROVIDED DURING THIS PERIOD OF TIME,... |
| 00:13:44 |
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AND HE ALSO SAID THAT WHILE HE THOUGHT THAT ADMINISTRATION LAWYERS MAY HAVE HAD GOOD INTENTIONS, BUT... |
| 00:16:05 |
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I THINK THE DISTINGUISHED CHAIRMAN. NOW I WELCOME OUR DISTINGUISHED PANEL OF WITNESSES TODAY AND ... |
| 00:19:43 |
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THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. THREE QUICK POINTS, TWO OF WHICH ARE TECHNICAL. IN THE INTRODUCTION YOU ... |
| 00:21:00 |
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IS THAT -- LET ME SAY NARSE I SUPPOSE I'M SORRY I GAVE YOU TOO MUCH CREDIT FOR THAT MEMO. BUT IS THAT... |
| 00:21:07 |
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YES. THANK YOU. READY TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS. |
| 00:21:11 |
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OKAY. REASONABLE CARE NIES PROFFESSOR YOO FOR FIVE MINUTES. |
| 00:21:15 |
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THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. I APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO APPEAR BEFORE THE COMMITTEE. I ALSO APPRECIATE... |
| 00:21:47 |
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RATHER UNUSUAL. YOU DON'T WANT TO SUMMARIZE THE STATEMENT? |
| 00:21:52 |
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I DON'T NEED TO UNLESS YOU WOULD LIKE ME TO. |
| 00:21:54 |
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WELL, I THINK IT WOULD SERVE NOT EVERYONE IN THE ROOM, PERHAPS NOT EVERYONE HAS READ THIS STATEMENT.... |
| 00:22:05 |
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FIRST THING, I WANTED TO MAKE CLEAR IN RESPONSE TO YOUR COMMENT ABOUT PRIVILEGE. AS YOU KNOW I HAVE... |
| 00:23:00 |
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LET ME JUST SAY, AS I SAID AT THE OUTSET, WE UNDERSTAND THAT THERE ARE LEGITIMATE PRIVILEGES. ALL... |
| 00:23:19 |
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YEAH. I WANTED TO MAKE IT CLEAR WHEN WE START AT THE BEGINNING. |
| 00:23:23 |
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FINE. |
| 00:23:24 |
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JUST A FEW POINTS. ONE POINT I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE CLEAR IS THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT EVENTS THAT HAPPENED... |
| 00:26:09 |
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I THANK THE WITNESS. NOW RECOGNIZE FOR FIVE MINUTES FOR AN OPENING STATEMENT PROFFESSOR SLADER. |
| 00:26:15 |
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THANK YOU. |
| 00:26:18 |
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USE YOUR MIC, PLEASE. |
| 00:26:20 |
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THANK YOU, CHAIRMAN NADLER AND MR. FRANKS AND MR. CHAIRMAN. PRIVILEGE TO BE HERE TODAY. I'M NOT HERE... |
| 00:32:26 |
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WELL, THANK YOU. I THANK THE WITNESSES FOR THEIR STATEMENTS. WE'LL NOW GO TO THE QUESTIONING. AS... |
| 00:33:36 |
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NO. |
| 00:33:38 |
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YOU HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT? |
| 00:33:40 |
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NO. I DIDN'T SAY NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. LET ME READ SOMETHING HELPFUL. THIS IS AN EXERT. |
| 00:33:49 |
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MAKE IT BRIEF. |
| 00:33:53 |
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I'LL MAKE IT VERY BRIEF. WAR BY OTHER MEANS BY PROFFESSOR YOO. PAGE 33. TWO SENTENCES. VARIOUS MEETING... |
| 00:34:33 |
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BECAUSE YOU SAID IT WASN'T NONEXISTENT NONEXISTENT, BUT YOU DIDN'T HELP SHAPE IT. SO WHAT WAS IT?... |
| 00:34:49 |
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MR. CHAIRMAN, MY RECOLLECTION, FIRST OF ALL, I WOULD BY INTERESTED IN SEEING THE DOCUMENT YOU'RE... |
| 00:34:58 |
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YES. |
| 00:34:59 |
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IT WOULD BE USEFUL TO HAVE THAT IN FRONT OF ME. I WANT TO MAKE SURE WHAT I REMEMBER IS RELATING TO... |
| 00:35:30 |
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THANK YOU. |
| 00:35:32 |
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THANKS. LET ME JUST LOOK AT IT. |
| 00:35:35 |
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I'LL GIVE IT BACK TO YOU. |
| 00:35:39 |
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IT'S AUGUST 1st, 2002, MEMORANDA FOR ALBERTA GONZALEZ. STANDS FOR CONDUCT OF INTERROGATION, 2340 AND... |
| 00:36:20 |
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NOT RIGHT NOW BECAUSE I HAVE A NUMBER OF QUESTIONS AND WE'RE RUNNING OUT THE CLOCK. |
| 00:36:24 |
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PLEASE TH. |
| 00:36:25 |
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THE WASHINGTON POST REPORTED THAT, QUOTE, THE VICE PRESIDENT'S LAWYER, REFERRING TO YOU, I BELIEVE,... |
| 00:36:43 |
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IS THAT THE WASHINGTON POST SAID THAT? |
| 00:36:45 |
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NO. IS THE WASHINGTON POST CORRECT IN SAYING THAT? |
| 00:36:49 |
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COULD YOU REPEAT IT? I'LL HAVE TO LISTEN CLOSELY. |
| 00:36:54 |
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THAT YOU, YOU, VOTED WHAT WAS CONSIDERED THE MEMO'S MOST RADICAL CLARIFY, THAT THE PRESIDENT MAY OFFER... |
| 00:37:04 |
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NO, I DON'T BELIEVE I DID ADVOCATE THAT. WHAT I SAID WAS IN THE MEETING WE HAD, MR. YOO RAN THROUGH... |
| 00:37:20 |
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SO IN OTHER WORDS, YOU DIDN'T ADVOCATE ANY POSITION, YOU SIMPLY SAID, I'M GLAD YOU'RE GOING OVER THESE... |
| 00:37:26 |
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CORRECT. |
| 00:37:27 |
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NOW, DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE PRESIDENT CAN ORDER VIOLATIONS OF FEDERAL TORTURE STATUTES IF HE BELIEVES... |
| 00:37:35 |
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I'LL ANSWER THAT CAREFULLY. BECAUSE ALTHOUGH IN COMMON CONVERSATION WE'RE USED TO USING WORDS LIKE... |
| 00:37:54 |
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LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION. |
| 00:37:57 |
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AS A GENERAL POP SIGZ, NO. I QUALIFY WITH AS A GENERAL PROPOSITION BECAUSE I THINK WE ALL AGREE, IN... |
| 00:38:12 |
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WHEN DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE PRESIDENT IS JUSTIFIED IN VIOLATING A STATUTE? |
| 00:38:16 |
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YOU'RE ASSUMING A FACT NO THE NOT IN EVIDENCE. I DIDN'T SAY I DID BELIEVE THAT. NO. I SAID RESERVING... |
| 00:38:28 |
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IS THERE ANY -- |
| 00:38:29 |
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I WON'T BE RENDERING LEGAL OPINION. |
| 00:38:31 |
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IS THERE ANY SET OF FACTS THAT WILL JUSTIFY THE PRESIDENT IN VIOLATING A STATUTE? |
| 00:38:37 |
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I'M NOT GOING TO ANSWER A LEGAL OPINION ON ANY IMAGINABLE SET OF FACTS ANY HUMAN BEING CAN THINK OF,... |
| 00:38:43 |
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DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE TORTURE -- NEVER MIND HOW YOU DEFINE IT, ASSUME IT'S TORTURE. DO YOU BELIEVE... |
| 00:38:57 |
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I HAVE NOT EXPRESSED AN OPINION ON THAT. |
| 00:39:00 |
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DO YOU HAVE SUCH AN OPINION? |
| 00:39:01 |
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I HAVEN'T RESEARCHED THE ISSUES MYSELF. I'VE RELIED ON OPINIONS ON THE SUBJECT ISSUED BY THE DEPARTMENT... |
| 00:39:07 |
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WELL, YOU DID EXPRESS THE OPINION, I BELIEVE, THAT THE PRESIDENT COULD -- OR THAT HIS ARTICLE II POWERS... |
| 00:39:25 |
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I DON'T BELIEVE I HAVE EXPRESSED THOSE HERE. I THINK THERE IS A SERIOUS QUESTION, CONSTITUTIOL QUESTIONS... |
| 00:39:51 |
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MR. CHAIRMAN, MR. CHAIRMAN? |
| 00:39:52 |
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LET ME ASK YOU ONE FURTHER QUESTION. |
| 00:39:54 |
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MR. CHAIRMAN? MR. CHAIRMAN? I'D ASK UNANIMOUS CONSENT TO GRANT THE CHAIRMAN AN ADDITIONAL |
| 00:40:00 |
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THANK YOU. WITHOUT OBJECTION. MR. ADDINGTON, PROFESSOR YOO IS QUOTED AS SAYING THAT UNDER CERTAIN... |
| 00:40:23 |
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I DON'T AGREE OR DISAGREE. I DON'T PLAN TO ADDRESS IT. YOU'RE SEEKING A LEGAL OPINION AND AS WE TOLD... |
| 00:40:37 |
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HE JUST SAID HE WOULDN'T GIVE ME AN OPINION. |
| 00:40:50 |
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MY TIME -- WELL, LET'S SEE. |
| 00:40:52 |
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IN YOUR MEM WHOA, PROFESSOR YOO, YOU TALKED ABOUT THE MEMO THAT'S BEEN QUOTED REPEATEDLY THAT SEVERE... |
| 00:41:26 |
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WELL, MR. CHAIRMAN, YOU'RE REFERRING TO THE AUGUST 1st, 2002 MEM POE, NOT THE -- |
| 00:41:30 |
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YES. |
| 00:41:31 |
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MARCH 2003 -- |
| 00:41:48 |
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YES. IT HAS TO MEET THIS CRITERIA. |
| 00:41:53 |
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YES. |
| 00:41:54 |
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WHY DID YOU GET THAT CRITERION FROM? |
| 00:41:57 |
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LET ME MAKE CLEAR. WHEN CONGRESS PASSED THAT STATUTE, THERE'S NO FURTHER DEFINITION OF THAT PHRASE... |
| 00:43:16 |
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THANK YOU. THE TIME OF THE CHAIRMAN HAS EXPIRED. I'LL NOW RECOGNIZE THE DISTINGUISHED RANKING MEMBER... |
| 00:43:27 |
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THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. AND THANK YOU, MR. ADDINGTON AND MR. YOO AND MR. SCHROEDER FOR APPEARING... |
| 00:43:39 |
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HALF OF MY FAMILY SAYS SCRADER AND THE OTHER HALF SAYS SCHROEDER. |
| 00:43:47 |
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I'LL STICK WITH YOUR FAMILY ON THIS ONE. PROFESSOR, ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE REPORT OF THE 911 COMMISSION?... |
| 00:43:54 |
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YES, I AM. |
| 00:43:56 |
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ACCORDING TO PAGE 132 OF THAT REPORT, IN DECEMBER 1998, THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION JUSTICE DEPARTMENT... |
| 00:44:33 |
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WELL, MR. FRANK, I HAVEN'T REVIEWED EITHER THAT OPINION OR THE COMMISSION REPORT. I DO BELIEVE THAT... |
| 00:45:58 |
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THANK YOU, MR. SCHROEDER. |
| 00:46:00 |
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SO IT SURPRISES ME TO LEARN THAT THE CRIMINAL DIVISION WAS PART OF IN PROCESS, AND YET NOTHING ABOUT... |
| 00:46:11 |
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PROFESSOR, THANK YOU. THANK YOU. |
| 00:46:12 |
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-- IN THE MEMO. |
| 00:46:16 |
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IT DOES APPEAR INTERESTING TO ME THAT THE CLINTON JUSTICE DEPARTMENT CAN ISSUE A MEMO SAYING THAT... |
| 00:47:14 |
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MR. FRANKS, I THINK THE INTERVIEW SPEAKS FOR ITSELF, BUT LET ME JUST SAY NOW, NOT PUTTING MYSELF IN... |
| 00:47:45 |
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WELL, I THINK THAT'S WHAT YOU TRY TO DO. MR. CHAIRMAN, I WOULD SAY TRY AS THEY MIGHT, THE MAJORITY... |
| 00:48:17 |
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ONE BRIEF POINT. PROFESSOR SCHROEDER MENTIONED THAT IT WAS UNNECESSARY OR EVEN NOT A GOOD IDEA THAT... |
| 00:48:47 |
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THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. |
| 00:48:51 |
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I NOW RECOGNIZE THE DISTINGUISHED CHAIRMAN OF THE FULL COMMITTEE, MR. CONYERS. |
| 00:48:59 |
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THANK YOU VERY MUCH, CHAIRMAN NADLER.@@@@@R |
| 00:49:24 |
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IS THAT ACCURATE? |
| 00:49:28 |
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I DO NOT BELIEVE IT IS ACCURATE BECAUSE IT TOOK WHAT I SAID AT OF CONTEXT. THE QUOTE STOPPED BEFORE... |
| 00:49:46 |
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BUT SO FAR WHAT I'VE READ WAS ACCURATE, BUT THERE WAS MORE. |
| 00:49:50 |
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IT STOPS LIKE MIDSENTENCE, SO I DIDN'T GET TO -- I MEAN I FINISHED THE SENTENCE DURING THE DEBATE BUT... |
| 00:49:55 |
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OKAY. |
| 00:49:56 |
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GET A CHANCE TO -- |
| 00:49:59 |
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THANK YOU. IS THERE ANYTHING, PROFESSOR, THAT THE PRESIDENT COULD NOT ORDER TO BE DONE TO A SUSPECT... |
| 00:50:13 |
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WELL, MR. CHAIRMAN, I THINK THAT GOES BACK TO THE QUOTE YOU JUST READ BECAUSE -- |
| 00:50:17 |
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NO, I'M JUST ASKING YOU THE QUESTION. MAYBE IT DOES OR DOESN'T. BUT WHAT DO YOU THINK? |
| 00:50:23 |
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I THINK IT'S THE SAME QUESTION I WAS ASKED. |
| 00:50:25 |
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WELL, WHAT'S THE ANSWER? |
| 00:50:26 |
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WELL, FIRST CAN I MAKE CLEAR I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT -- |
| 00:50:29 |
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YOU DON'T HAVE TO MAKE ANYTHING CLEAR. JUST ANSWER THE QUESTION, COUNSEL. |
| 00:50:34 |
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I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I'M NOT SAYING -- |
| 00:50:36 |
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YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT NOT SAYING -- JUST ANSWER THE |
| 00:50:39 |
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OKAY. MY THINKING RIGHT NOW -- |
| 00:50:42 |
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YES, RIGHT NOW. |
| 00:50:43 |
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MY THINKING RIGHT NOW -- |
| 00:50:45 |
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THIS MOMENT. |
| 00:50:49 |
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THIS MOMENT, MR. CHAIRMAN, IS THAT, YOU KNOW, FIRST THE QUESTION YOU'RE POSING -- |
| 00:50:57 |
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WHAT IS THE ANSWER? |
| 00:50:59 |
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MR. CHILDREN, I'M NOT TRYING TO -- |
| 00:51:01 |
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I GET IT. OKAY. |
| 00:51:02 |
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LET ME -- I WILL ANSWER THE QUESTION. |
| 00:51:08 |
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NO, YOU'RE WASTING MY TIME. LOOK, COUNSEL, WE'VE ALL PRACTICED LAW. HOLD IT. COULD THE PRESIDENT... |
| 00:51:22 |
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MR. CHAIRMAN, I DON'T THINK THAT I HAVE EVER -- |
| 00:51:24 |
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I'M ASKING YOU THAT -- |
| 00:51:26 |
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GIVEN THE ADVICE THAT THE PRESIDENT COULD BURY SOMEBODY ALIVE. |
| 00:51:30 |
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I DIDN'T ASK YOU IF YOU EVER GAVE HIM ADVICE. I ASKED YOU DO YOU THINK THE PRESIDENT COULD ORDER A... |
| 00:51:39 |
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MR. CHAIRMAN MY VIEW RIGHT NOW IS I DON'T THINK A PRESIDENT WOULD -- NO AMERICAN PRESIDENT WOULD EVER... |
| 00:51:51 |
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I THINK WE UNDERSTAND THE GAMES THAT ARE BEING PLAYED. OKAY. NOW, LET ME TURN TO ATTORNEY ADDINGTON... |
| 00:52:22 |
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I DON'T KNOW OF ANY SUCH MEETING, MR. CHAIRMAN. |
| 00:52:28 |
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NONE? |
| 00:52:32 |
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I WAS NOT AT A MEETING OF THE DESCRIPTION YOU'VE GIVEN. |
| 00:52:38 |
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RIGHT. DO YOU FEEL THAT THE UNITARY THEORY OF THE EXECUTIVE ALLOWS THE PRESIDENT TO DO THINGS OVER... |
| 00:52:53 |
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CONSTITUTION BINDS ALL OF US, CONGRESSMAN, THE PRESIDENT, ALL OF YOU AS MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, ALL OF... |
| 00:53:05 |
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HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF THAT THEORY BEFORE? |
| 00:53:06 |
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I HAVE. I HAVE SEEN IT IN THE NEWSPAPERS ALL THE TIME. |
| 00:53:09 |
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DO YOU SUPPORT IT? |
| 00:53:10 |
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YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS? |
| 00:53:11 |
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NO. AND IT'S ALWAYS DESCRIBED AS SOMETHING -- ADDINGTON IS THE GREATED A VO TATER. LET ME TELL YOU... |
| 00:53:34 |
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NO NEED YOU -- I DON'T NEED YOU TO INTERPRET -- |
| 00:53:38 |
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I'M ANSWERING YOUR QUESTION. |
| 00:53:40 |
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YOU'RE TELLING ME YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THE UNITARY THEORY. |
| 00:53:44 |
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I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN. |
| 00:53:46 |
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DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN BY IT? |
| 00:53:48 |
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I KNOW WHAT I MEAN. |
| 00:53:49 |
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WHAT DO YOU MEAN? TELL ME. |
| 00:53:56 |
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THE USE OF THE WORD UNITARY, ALL IT REFERS TO IS THE FIRST SENTENCE OF ARTICLE II WHICH SAYS ALL OF... |
| 00:54:14 |
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THANK YOU VERY MUCH. |
| 00:54:19 |
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YES, SIR. |
| 00:54:24 |
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THE GENTLEMAN FROM IOWA IS RECOGNIZED FOR FIVE MINUTES. |
| 00:54:27 |
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THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN, AND PERHAPS I QUOTE THE CHAIRMAN OF THE FULL COMMITTEE AND WE COULD TAKE... |
| 00:54:39 |
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I DO, TOO. CHAIRMAN CONYERS HAS A LONG AND DISTINGUISHED HISTORY. |
| 00:54:42 |
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THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S A UNANIMOUS OPINION ON THIS JUDICIARY COMMITTEE, I BELIEVE. I WANTED TO TAKE... |
| 00:55:21 |
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YES, I HAVE READ THE BOOK. I CAN'T, OF COURSE, AS A WITNESS WHO SUNDAY OATH ADDRESS EVERY WORD ON... |
| 00:55:36 |
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AND PROFESSOR, THE SAME QUESTION. |
| 00:55:39 |
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SIR, I HAVEN'T READ THE BOOK. I DID READ MR. SANDS' TESTIMONY BEFORE THIS COMMITTEE, AND I NOTICED... |
| 00:55:59 |
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AND WITH THAT ANSWER, PROFESSOR YOO THEN, I AM GOING TO INTERPRET THAT TO MEAN THAT AT LEAST WITH... |
| 00:56:15 |
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I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY HE WOULD SAY THAT HE INTERVIEWED ME FOR THE BOOK. I CAN TELL THE COMMITTEE... |
| 00:56:32 |
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THANK YOU, PROFESSOR. LET ME JUST TAKE THIS A LITTLE BIT A DIFFERENT WAY, AND WE'RE HERE CONSTITUTION... |
| 00:59:38 |
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YES, MR. CHAIRMAN, I'M CAREFUL OF DOING SO BECAUSE EVERYONE HERE I RECOGNIZE WANTS TO DEFEND THE UNITED... |
| 01:00:07 |
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I LOOKED THROUGH BASICALLY THREE FILTERS AS WE CONSIDERED THESE KIND OF ISSUES BACK, AS YOU SAY, WHEN... |
| 01:02:10 |
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I THANK YOU MR. ADDINGTON AND ALL THE WITNESSES. I YIELD BACK. |
| 01:02:13 |
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I THANK THE GENTLEMAN AND I RECOGNIZE FOR FIVE MINUTES THE GENTLEMAN FROM ALABAMA. |
| 01:02:19 |
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THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. GENTLEMEN, THANK YOU FOR COMING TODAY. MR. YUU, I HAVE NOT READ YOUR BOOK... |
| 01:03:59 |
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MR. DAVIS, THANKS FOR -@@@@@Zz)d'""R |
| 01:04:18 |
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WAS HE OR WASN'T HE? |
| 01:04:20 |
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I DO NOT KNOW WHETHER ANYONE DID OR DID NOT? |
| 01:04:24 |
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THEY HE CHAIRMAN OF THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE WAS MR. SPECTOR? FAVRE REPUBLICAN. DID EITHER OF YOU KNOW... |
| 01:04:36 |
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I DO NOT KNOW. |
| 01:04:37 |
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DO YOU HAPPENED TO NOW? -- KNOW IF CHAIRMAN SPECTER WAS |
| 01:04:45 |
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I DO NOT KNOW. |
| 01:04:48 |
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THERE IS A PROCESS THAT HAS BEEN ALLUDED TO TODAY OF CONSULTING WITH MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE AND SENATE... |
| 01:05:14 |
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ALL I KNOW -- |
| 01:05:17 |
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THAT IS A SIMPLE WERE THEY OR WERE THEY NOT CONSULTED DO YOU KNOW IF THEY WERE? |
| 01:05:20 |
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ALL I KNOW IS WHAT I READ IN THE PAPERS ABOUT IT. |
| 01:05:24 |
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WERE THEY OR WERE THEY NOT -- |
| 01:05:25 |
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TO MY KNOWLEDGE? |
| 01:05:28 |
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YES. |
| 01:05:29 |
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TOLL YOUR KNOWLEDGE THEY WERE NOT, WERE THEY? |
| 01:05:30 |
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I DON'T KNOW. |
| 01:05:32 |
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MR. ADDINGTON, TO YOUR KNOWLEDGE WERE ANY MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE OR SENATE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE RESULTED?... |
| 01:05:41 |
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THERE IS NO REASON WHY THEIR OPINION ON THAT WOULD BE RELEVANT. |
| 01:05:45 |
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IS THAT A NO? |
| 01:05:46 |
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I DID NOT CONSULT -- |
| 01:05:48 |
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THANK YOU ALL FOR ANSWERING THOSE QUESTIONS WITHOUT TOO MUCH STRUGGLE. ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS... |
| 01:08:36 |
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THANK YOU. I NOW RECOGNIZE FOR FIVE MINUTES THE GENTLEMAN FROM MINNESOTA. |
| 01:08:44 |
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MR. YOO, YOU WROTE THE MEMO OF AUGUST 2002, IS THAT RIGHT? |
| 01:08:50 |
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MR. ELSON AS I DESCRIBED -- |
| 01:08:52 |
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I NEED A YES OR NO, SIR. |
| 01:08:55 |
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I DID NOT WRITE IT BY MYSELF. |
| 01:08:57 |
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DID YOU WRITE IT IN ANY PART? |
| 01:08:58 |
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I CONTRIBUTED TO A DRAFTING OF IT. |
| 01:09:01 |
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OKAY. SO YOU CONTRIBUTE TO A DRAFTING OF T WHAT PERCENTAGE OF THE DRAFTING DID YOU WRITE? |
| 01:09:08 |
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IT'S DIFFICULT FOR ME TO -- |
| 01:09:11 |
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AND DO YOU CHECK IN WITH ADDINGTON ABOUT WHAT YOU WERE GOING TO COVER? HE SAID YOU DID. |
| 01:09:18 |
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WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE AUGUST 1, 2002, MEMO. |
| 01:09:21 |
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OF COURSE. DID YOU CHECK IN WITH ADDINGTON AS HE JUST SAID YOU DID. |
| 01:09:26 |
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I UNFORTUNATELY, DO NOT HAVE THE SAME -- |
| 01:09:29 |
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SO YOU CAN'T -- |
| 01:09:30 |
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THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT HAS TOLD ME I'M NOT ALLOWED TO TALK ABOUT ANY INDIVIDUALS. I'M ONLY ALLOWED... |
| 01:09:36 |
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WAS MR. ADDINGTON TELLING THE TRUTH WHEN HE SAID YOU CHECKED IN WITH HIM OVER WHAT YOU WERE GOING... |
| 01:09:41 |
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NO. I WANT YOU TO SAY YES OR NO. |
| 01:09:44 |
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I GAVE THE DRAFT OF THE OPINION TO THE WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL'S OFFICE, WHICH WOULD BE -- |
| 01:09:49 |
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SO WHEN HE SAID YOU CAME IN TO TELL US WHAT HE'S GOING TO COVER, YOU CANNOT CONFIRM THAT, IS THAT... |
| 01:09:55 |
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I'M NOT SAYING THAT AT ALL. |
| 01:09:56 |
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ANSWER MY QUESTION. SAY YES OR NO. |
| 01:09:57 |
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IT'S UP TO THE WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL TO DECIDE WHO -- |
| 01:10:00 |
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STOP, SIR. I'M ASKING YOU TO TELL ME TO CONFIRM WHETHER WHAT MR. ADDINGTON REPORTED TO THIS COMMITTEE... |
| 01:10:22 |
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WE'RE A LITTLE FLEXIBLE. |
| 01:10:26 |
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MR. ELLISON, I'M AFRAID I HAVE TO FOLLOW THE GUIDANCE PROVIDED BY THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT ON THIS QUESTION.... |
| 01:10:32 |
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SO CONFIRM WHAT ADDINGTON SAID, DENY WHAT ADDINGTON SAID, OR SAY I CANNOT ANSWER THE QUESTION AND... |
| 01:10:40 |
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I CAN'T ANSWER THE QUESTION BECAUSE OF THE INSTRUCTION BY THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT -- |
| 01:10:43 |
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I AM NOT ALLOWED TO -- |
| 01:10:44 |
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THANK YOU. WHO ELSE WAS PRESENT WHEN ADDINGTON -- WHEN YOU CHECKED IN WITH ADDINGTON? |
| 01:10:51 |
|
SIR, YOU'RE ASSUMING I ANSWERED YOUR LAST -- |
| 01:10:55 |
|
IS THAT A REPEAT OF THE LAST ANSWER? DO YOU STICK WITH THE LAST ANSWER? |
| 01:10:58 |
|
YOUR QUESTION WAS WHO ELSE WAS IN THE ROOM WHEN I CHECKED |
| 01:11:01 |
|
RIGHT. AND YOU CAN ASSERT YOUR PRIVILEGE AGAIN IF YOU CHOOSE. DO YOU? |
| 01:11:06 |
|
IT'S NOT MY CHOICE. THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT HAS TOLD ME I CAN ONLY TALK ABOUT THE -- |
| 01:11:12 |
|
SO AT SOME POINT THIS 2002 MEMO WAS IMPLEMENTED, IS THAT |
| 01:11:16 |
|
WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY IMPLEMENTED, SIR? |
| 01:11:18 |
|
WELL, DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE WORD IMPLEMENTED -- |
| 01:11:22 |
|
THE GENTLEMAN WILL SUSPEND FOR A MOMENT AND STOP THE CLOCK. PROFESSOR, ARE YOU ASSERTING A PRIVILEGE?... |
| 01:11:28 |
|
ON THE LAST QUESTION OR THE PREVIOUS TWO? |
| 01:11:30 |
|
EITHER ONE OF THEM. |
| 01:11:31 |
|
THE FIRST TWO HE ASKED ME I HAVE TO BECAUSE OF THE INSTRUCTIONS BY THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT THAT I CAN'T... |
| 01:11:40 |
|
AND EXACTLY WHAT PRIVILEGE ARE YOU ASSERTING? |
| 01:11:43 |
|
I ASSUME THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT -- I CAN'T SAY WHAT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT'S BELIEF -- |
| 01:11:49 |
|
WAIT, WAIT. |
| 01:11:50 |
|
THEY ORDERED ME NOT TO -- |
| 01:11:54 |
|
HOLD ON. YOU'RE TESTIFYING FOR A CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEE. THE JUSTICE COMMITTEE CANNOT ORDER YOU... |
| 01:12:26 |
|
I BELIEVE IT'S THE ATTORNEY/CLIENT PRIVILEGE. |
| 01:12:30 |
|
YOU'RE ASSERTING THE ATTORNEY/CLIENT PRIVILEGE IN NOT ANSWERING THE QUESTION YOU WERE ASKED, AND WE... |
| 01:12:50 |
|
MR. YOO, ARE YOU DENYING KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT THE WORD |
| 01:12:53 |
|
I WANTED -- |
| 01:12:56 |
|
WHAT DOES IMPLEMENT MEAN, SIR? |
| 01:12:58 |
|
YOU'RE ASKING ME TO DEFINE WHAT YOU MEAN BY THE WORD? |
| 01:13:01 |
|
I'M ASKING YOU TO DEFINE WHAT YOU MEAN BY IMPLEMENT. WHAT DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE TERM TO MEAN? |
| 01:13:06 |
|
IT CAN MEAN A WIDE NUMBER OF THINGS. |
| 01:13:08 |
|
OKAY, LOOK. YOU CONTRIBUTED TO THE WRITING OF THE 2002 MEMO, IS THAT RIGHT? |
| 01:13:13 |
|
YES. |
| 01:13:15 |
|
THE NAME ON THE MEMO WAS BIBY, BUT YOU CONTRIBUTED TO THE MEMO. |
| 01:13:20 |
|
YES. |
| 01:13:22 |
|
THE MEMO WAS IMPLEMENTED AT SOME POINT. |
| 01:13:25 |
|
WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY IMPLEMENT IMPLEMENTED? |
| 01:13:27 |
|
I MEAN THE GUIDANCE THAT WAS SET FORT IN THAT MEMORANDUM WAS FOLLOWED AND PUT INTO ACTION. DO YOU... |
| 01:13:36 |
|
SO YOU'RE ASKING ME -- |
| 01:13:40 |
|
I'M NOT GOING TO GET INTO SEMANTICAL GAMES WITH YOU IN THIS FIVE MINUTES. I NEED YOU TO ANSWER THE... |
| 01:13:47 |
|
THE MEMO WAS SIGNED AND PROVIDED -- |
| 01:13:49 |
|
I KNOW WHAT SIGNED MEANS AND SO DO YOU. STOP WASTING MY TIME, MR. YOO. |
| 01:13:55 |
|
I'M NOT TRYING TO, SIR. |
| 01:13:57 |
|
WAS THE MEMO FOLLOWED? WILL YOU ACCEPT FOLLOWED? |
| 01:14:02 |
|
I DON'T HAVE PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE ABOUT HOW IT WAS FOLLOWED, BUT -- |
| 01:14:05 |
|
I DIDN'T ASK YOU ABOUT HOW. I ASKED YOU WHETHER IT WAS FOLLOWED, SIR. |
| 01:14:10 |
|
SIR, YOU'RE ASKING ME ABOUT THINGS THAT OTHER PEOPLE WOULD HAVE DONE, NOT ME. |
| 01:14:15 |
|
SO THE FACT IS -- SO THE MEMO WAS NEVER PUT INTO EFFECT? ARE YOU MAKING THAT CLAIM? |
| 01:14:20 |
|
NO, NO, NO, SIR. LET ME GO BACK AND REFER TO MY OPENING STATEMENT. |
| 01:14:23 |
|
FORGET IT. MR. SCHROEDER, DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT IMPLEMENT MEANS? |
| 01:14:28 |
|
I THINK I DO. YES, SIR. |
| 01:14:32 |
|
WAS THIS MEMO, THIS 2002 MEMO WHICH MR. YOO REFUSES TO ANSWER QUESTIONS ABOUT EVER PUT INTO EFFECT?... |
| 01:14:37 |
|
I HAVE NO PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE. I WASN'T -- |
| 01:14:39 |
|
I'M NOT ASKING YOU ABOUT PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE. BASED ON YOUR STUDY -- |
| 01:14:43 |
|
MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT THE MEMO WAS PROMPTED AT LEAST IN PART BY A SPECIFIC REQUEST OF THE CIA... |
| 01:15:13 |
|
SO IS THAT RIGHT, MR. YOO. WERE THE LEGAL TECHNIQUES OUTLINED IN THIS MEMO EMPLOYED? |
| 01:15:22 |
|
WERE THE TECHNIQUES THAT WERE LEGAL -- LET ME SAY THIS. WE DID NOT MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT POLICY. |
| 01:15:27 |
|
I DIDN'T ASK YOU ABOUT THAT. I DID NOT ASK YOU ABOUT THAT, SIR. I WANT TO KNOW IF THE LEGAL ADVICE... |
| 01:15:41 |
|
YOU KNOW, AGAIN, MR. ELLISON -- |
| 01:15:44 |
|
DID ANYONE EVER COME TO YOU AND ASK YOU FOR AN INTERPRETATION OF YOUR MEMO? |
| 01:15:53 |
|
INTERPRETATION OF MY MEMO? |
| 01:15:55 |
|
DID THE INTERROGATORS EVER COME BACK AND SAY WE GOT THE MOMENTOW -- |
| 01:15:59 |
|
WITHOUT OBJECTION THE GENTLEMAN WILL HAVE ONE ADDITIONAL MINUTE TO FINISH THIS LINE OF QUESTIONING.... |
| 01:16:04 |
|
DID THE INTERROGATORS EVER TURN TO YOU AND SAY YOU'VE GIVEN US THAT MEMO, BUT WE WANT TO IMPLEMENT... |
| 01:16:16 |
|
AGAIN, SIR, BECAUSE OF THE INSTRUCTIONS OF THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT, I CAN'T TELL YOU -- THAT'S NOT... |
| 01:16:24 |
|
MR. SCHROEDER, WAS THE MEMO IN EFFECT DURING ABU GHRAIB? |
| 01:16:32 |
|
THE GENTLEMAN WILL SUSPEND AGAIN. PROFESSOR YOO, ARE YOU ASSERTING A PRIVILEGE? |
| 01:16:42 |
|
WHAT WAS THE QUESTION? |
| 01:16:54 |
|
OKAY. |
| 01:16:58 |
|
SIR, I'M AFRAID MR. ELLISON'S QUESTIONS MAY INVOLVE A DISCUSSION OF CLASSIFIED INFORMATION, WHICH... |
| 01:17:10 |
|
YOU WERE ASSERTING THE PRIVILEGE IN ANSWERING YOUR QUESTION? |
| 01:17:13 |
|
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S -- I JUST CAN'T DO THAT, SIR. I'M NOT SAYING IT'S A PRIVILEGE. THAT'S A VIOLATION... |
| 01:17:22 |
|
SO YOU'RE ASSERTING THAT THE -- THAT IN ORDER TO ANSWER MR. ELLISON'S INFORMATION YOU WOULD HAVE TO... |
| 01:17:29 |
|
I MIGHT HAVE TO, SIR. |
| 01:17:32 |
|
MIGHT HAVE TO OR DO HAVE TO? LET ME REPHRASE THE QUESTION. IS THERE ANY WAY YOU CAN ANSWER MR. ELLISON'S... |
| 01:17:41 |
|
AS I UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION I WOULD HAVE TO DISCUSS CLASSIFIED INFORMATION TO PROVIDE HIM A COMPLETE... |
| 01:17:45 |
|
OKAY. |
| 01:17:46 |
|
I DON'T THINK I CAN DO THAT, SIR. |
| 01:17:49 |
|
AGAIN, WE'LL TAKE THAT UNDER ADVISEMENT. |
| 01:17:53 |
|
CHAIRMAN, MAY I MAKE A PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY? |
| 01:17:55 |
|
YES. |
| 01:17:57 |
|
THE GENTLEMAN WILL STATE HIS PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY. |
| 01:18:00 |
|
I WOULD INQUIRE OF THE CHAIR AFTER WE COME BACK FROM OUR BREAK, IF THE CHAIR WOULD CONSIDER DIRECTING... |
| 01:18:41 |
|
I WILL CERTAINLY CONSIDER THAT AS WE BREAK. WHICH WE WILL RECESS IN A FEW MINUTES FOR THE VOTES ON... |
| 01:18:53 |
|
MY QUESTION IS WHEN THE INTERROGATORS, THE ONES WHO WERE ADDRESSING THE WITNESSES WHO WERE BEING INTERROGATED,... |
| 01:19:12 |
|
AS I UNDERSTAND THE STRUCTURE OF OUR GOVERNMENT, THE CIA HAS ITS OWN GENERAL COUNSEL'S OFFICE AND... |
| 01:19:37 |
|
AS I SAID TO THE CHAIRMAN A SECOND AGO, I AM AFRAID YOUR QUESTION ASKS -- |
| 01:19:45 |
|
DID YOU ASK WHETHER WATERBOARDING WAS PERMISSIBLE? |
| 01:19:50 |
|
IF YOU LET ME FINISH I WOULD -- BECAUSE I BELIEVE IT -- |
| 01:19:56 |
|
THE GENTLEMAN WILL SUSPEND. YOU'RE ASSERTING THAT YOU CANNOT ANSWER THE QUESTION AS TO WHETHER THE... |
| 01:20:11 |
|
YES. |
| 01:20:12 |
|
WE WILL HOLD THAT UNDER ADVISEMENT, AND THE GENTLEMAN'S TIME HAS EXPIRED. |
| 01:20:17 |
|
ONE LAST QUESTION? |
| 01:20:18 |
|
WITHOUT OBJECTION, THE GENTLEMAN WILL HAVE 30 SECONDS ADDITIONAL. |
| 01:20:23 |
|
DID YOUR MEMO ALLOW FOR THE USE OF SICCING DOGS ON INTERROGATED INDIVIDUALS? |
| 01:20:32 |
|
I'M AFRAID I HAVE TO GIVE THE SAME ANSWER, BUT I WILL POINT -- |
| 01:20:35 |
|
EXCUSE ME A SECOND. THE QUESTION WAS DID YOUR MEMO ALLOW FOR THAT. THAT'S NOT CONFIDENTIAL. YOUR... |
| 01:20:43 |
|
PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY. |
| 01:20:45 |
|
ONE SECOND. LET HIM ANSWER THE QUESTION. JO YOU'RE REFERRING TO THE AUGUST 1st, 2002, MEMO. THE MEMO... |
| 01:20:57 |
|
I SIMPLY WANT TO MAKE THE PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY, THE PROCEDURE WHO IS ACTUALLY ASKING THE QUESTIONS... |
| 01:21:17 |
|
EXCUSE ME. THE CHAIR WAS NOT ASKING QUESTIONS BUT TRYING TO ASCERTAIN WHAT PRIVILEGE IS BEING ASSERTED,... |
| 01:21:38 |
|
THERE ARE PRESS REPORTS HA STATE IN SEPTEMBER OF 2002 YOU AND OTHER ADMINISTRATION LAWYERS VISITED... |
| 01:22:06 |
|
I DON'T REMEMBER THE EXACT DATE, BUT I WENT THERE A NUMBER OF TIMES. |
| 01:22:12 |
|
WELL, DO YOU RECALL GOING TO GUANTANAMO BAY AROUND THAT TIME? |
| 01:22:14 |
|
I REALLY DON'T REMEMBER THE DATES, MA'AM, BUT I REMEMBER GOING IN -- |
| 01:22:21 |
|
HOW MANY TIMES DID YOU GO TO GUANTANAMO BAY DURING THAT PERIOD? |
| 01:22:24 |
|
WELL, I'M NOT SURE WHAT PERIOD YOU'RE DESCRIBING. I'D SAY I HAVE PROBABLY BEEN TO GUANTANAMO I GUESS... |
| 01:22:39 |
|
ON ONE OF THOSE TRIPS DID YOU MEET WITH JAG ATTORNEYS? |
| 01:22:43 |
|
I DIDN'T RECALL IT. I REMEMBER WHEN COLONEL BEAVER, WHO WAS REFERENCED I THINK IN MR. SANDS' "VANITY... |
| 01:22:58 |
|
WHAT PROMPTED YOUR TRIPS TO GUANTANAMO BAY? |
| 01:23:01 |
|
INVITED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE TO GO AND I ACCEPTED. I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE GOOD TO GO AND SEE... |
| 01:23:10 |
|
DID YOU HAVE ANY DISCUSSIONS ON THOSE TRIPS ABOUT INTERROGATION METHODS? |
| 01:23:15 |
|
I DON'T KNOW ABOUT METHODS. I WOULD SAY WE PROBABLY DID ONLY IN THIS SENSE. I CAN REMEMBER, I'M NOT... |
| 01:23:23 |
|
ON ANY OF THE TRIPS. |
| 01:23:26 |
|
THAT THEY WOULD SHOW US AN INTERROGATION ROOM WITH NO ONE IN IT SO YOU COULD SEE WHAT THE ROOM LOOKED... |
| 01:23:46 |
|
ON ANY OF THE TRIPS DID YOU DISCUSS INTERROGATION METHODS THAT WERE DIRECTLY REFERENCED IN THE MEMO... |
| 01:23:57 |
|
I'M NOT SURE I REMEMBER THIS MEMO HAVING METHODS DISCUSSED IN IT. |
| 01:24:00 |
|
DID YOU DISCUSS SPECIFIC TYPES OF INTERROGATION METHODS THAT INTERROGATORS SHOULD USE WHILE AT GUANTANAMO... |
| 01:24:08 |
|
I DON'T RECALL DOING THAT, NO. |
| 01:24:09 |
|
THAT MEANS YOU DIDN'T OR YOU DON'T RECALL DOING IT? |
| 01:24:11 |
|
I DON'T RECALL DOING IT, AS I SAID. |
| 01:24:14 |
|
WELL, IT'S HARD TO FATHOM THAT YOU WOULD NOT HAVE A RECOLLECTION ON SPECIFIC CONVERSATIONS ABOUT TYPES... |
| 01:24:26 |
|
IS THERE A QUESTION PENDING, MA'AM? |
| 01:24:30 |
|
THE QUESTION IS I DON'T BELIEVE THAT YOU DON'T RECALL WHETHER YOU DISCUSSED SPECIFIC INTERROGATION... |
| 01:24:46 |
|
AS I SAID TO YOU, I DON'T RECALL. LET ME BE CLEAR TO YOU THAT THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS THAT... |
| 01:24:55 |
|
I REALLY DON'T NEED ASSISTANCE IN ASKING MY QUESTIONS. |
| 01:24:58 |
|
THE CIA PROGRAM AND YOU WILL FIND WHEN YOU QUESTION ME, THE PARTICIPATION WITH RESPECT TO THE CIA... |
| 01:25:11 |
|
EXCEPT THAT -- THERE IS AN ACCUSATION THAT INTERROGATION METHODS WENT FAR BEYOND AND UP TO AND PAST... |
| 01:25:28 |
|
YES. AND I DID NOT. |
| 01:25:31 |
|
I'M PREY CLEAR ON WHY I'M ASKING YOU THE QUESTION AND WHICH ONE I'M ASKING YOU. ON ONE OF THE TRIPS... |
| 01:25:58 |
|
FAIRLY CERTAIN, I WON'T BE ABSOLUTE, BUT FAIRLY CERTAIN THAT I DID NOT. |
| 01:26:02 |
|
THAT YOU DID NOT EVER -- |
| 01:26:03 |
|
DISCUSS THIS AUGUST 1st, 2002, LEGAL OPINION TO THE COUNSEL OF THE PRESIDENT FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF... |
| 01:26:10 |
|
SO YOU DENY THE SUGGESTION IN THE "VANITY FAIR" REPORT THAT YOU ENCOURAGED INTERROGATORS TO DO WHATEVER... |
| 01:26:18 |
|
I DO DENY THAT. |
| 01:26:19 |
|
YOU DO DENY THAT. |
| 01:26:22 |
|
THAT QUOTE IS WRONG. |
| 01:26:23 |
|
DID YOU OBSERVE A INTERROGATION DURING THE TRIP? |
| 01:26:26 |
|
I THINK WE PROBABLY DID. |
| 01:26:28 |
|
AND WHY DID YOU OBSERVE AN INTERROGATION. |
| 01:26:30 |
|
THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE TOOK US AROUND TO SHOW US WHAT WAS GOING ON. I'M NOT SURE IT'S THE PARTICULAR... |
| 01:26:40 |
|
WHAT DID YOU OBSERVE? |
| 01:26:43 |
|
I OBSERVED A DETAINEE IN I BELIEVE AN ORANGE JUMPSUIT SITTING IN A CHAIR. |
| 01:26:47 |
|
WHAT KIND OF INTERROGATION WAS USED? |
| 01:26:49 |
|
THEY WERE TALKING TO HIM DURING THE BRIEF TIME -- |
| 01:26:52 |
|
SIMPLY JUST CONVERSATION. NO OTHER -- |
| 01:26:55 |
|
DURING THE BRIEF TIME WE WERE THERE, YES. I DON'T RECALL WE COULD SEE WHAT WAS BEING SAID. I COULD... |
| 01:27:03 |
|
BUT YOU SAW NO PHYSICAL CONTACT -- |
| 01:27:06 |
|
IT WAS A VERY BRIEF LOOK, YES. |
| 01:27:08 |
|
I YIELD THE BALANCE OF MY TIME. |
| 01:27:11 |
|
I THANK THE GENTLE LADY. THERE ARE NOW THREE VOTES ON THE FLOOR. THE SUBCOMMITTEE WILL STAND IN RECESS... |
| 01:29:24 |
|
THANKS, IF IT'S 11 AND 12. |
| 01:29:25 |
|
THEY'RE ENTERED INTO THE RECORD WHATEVER THEY ARE. BEFORE WE PROCEED, LET ME SIMPLY AGAIN ADMONISH... |
| 01:30:16 |
|
THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. LET'S SEE IF WE CAN GET A QUICK ANSWER TO THE QUESTION BECAUSE THERE WAS... |
| 01:30:42 |
|
MR. SCOTT, I'M AFRAID THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT HAS INSTRUCTED ME I CAN'T ANSWER QUESTIONS OF THAT NATURE.... |
| 01:30:47 |
|
MR. ADDINGTON, DID YOU EVER DISCUSS THE SERE PROGRAM IN -- |
| 01:30:51 |
|
THE GENTLEMAN WILL SUSPEND. MR. YOO, IN ORDER FOR YOU TO ASSERT A PRIVILEGE AS THE BASIS FOR REFUSING... |
| 01:31:20 |
|
MR. CHAIRMAN, ACCORDING TO THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT'S INSTRUCTION I BELIEVE THE PRIVILEGE WOULD BE BOTH... |
| 01:31:31 |
|
SO YOU ARE ASSERTING THAT THE ANSWER TO MR. SCOTT'S QUESTION WOULD NECESSITATE THE REVELATION OF CLASSIFIED... |
| 01:31:40 |
|
AS I UNDERSTAND THE INSTRUCTIONS -- |
| 01:31:43 |
|
I'M NOT ASKING YOU THAT. YOU'RE ASSERTING THE PRIVILEGE, NOT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT. YOU ARE ASSERTING... |
| 01:32:31 |
|
I HAVE TO SAY THIS, SIR, THAT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT GAVE ME THESE INSTRUCTIONS. I CAN'T GO OUT BEYOND... |
| 01:32:53 |
|
IT'S DIFFICULT TO CREDIT YOUR ASSERTION OF PRIVILEGE ON THIS QUESTION BECAUSE STEPHEN BRADBURY, THE... |
| 01:33:43 |
|
SIR, I RECOGNIZE THAT IT'S YOUR VIEW THAT THE ATTORNEY/CLIENT PRIVILEGE DOES NOT APPLY. HOWEVER, SIR,... |
| 01:34:11 |
|
HE ANSWERED THIS QUESTION. BEFORE THIS COMMITTEE. I FAIL TO SEE HOW THE REPETITION OF THE ANSWER COULD... |
| 01:34:26 |
|
I RECOGNIZE MR. BRADBURY GAVE ME THE INSTRUCTIONS. I PERSONALLY -- |
| 01:34:35 |
|
THE CHAIR WILL TAKE YOUR ASSERTION OF PRIVILEGE UNDER ADVISEMENT AND WE WILL COME BACK TO YOU LATER.... |
| 01:34:47 |
|
DID YOU EVER DISCUSS THE SERE PROGRAM? . BUT I DON'T HAVE ANY REASON TO DISPUTE THE QUOTATION FROM... |
| 01:35:06 |
|
MR. YOO, LET ME ASK A KIND OF BASIC QUESTION. IS TORTURE BY UNITED STATES OFFICIALS ILLEGAL? |
| 01:35:17 |
|
YOU'RE ASKING ME MY CURRENT VIEW IS IF IT'S A VIOLATION OF TORTURE AS IT'S DEFINED IN THE STATUTE,... |
| 01:35:29 |
|
THANK YOU. NOW, IS THERE AN INTERNATIONAL AGREEMENT OF WHAT TORTURE IS AND WHAT IT ISN'T? DOESN'T... |
| 01:35:44 |
|
MR. SCOTT, YOU'RE REFERRING TO THE CONVENTION AGAINST TORTURE I BELIEVE? |
| 01:35:47 |
|
SURE. |
| 01:35:48 |
|
SO THERE A TREATY IN EFFECT CALLED THE CONVENTION AGAINST TORTURE -- |
| 01:35:52 |
|
DON'T MOST COUNTRIES KIND OF UNDERSTAND WHEN IT IS TORTURE AND WHEN IT IS NOT? |
| 01:35:58 |
|
I THINK LOOKING AT THAT TREATY THAT THERE HAS BEEN DISAGREEMENT BY THE UNITED STATES ITSELF AS TO... |
| 01:36:04 |
|
YOU PUT SOME DISAGREEMENT IN IT. I'M TALKING ABOUT EVERYBODY ELSE IN THE WORLD. |
| 01:36:08 |
|
NO, SIR, WHEN THE SENATE RATIFIED THE TREATY, THE CONVENTION AGAINST TORTURE, IT PUT IN A RESERVATION... |
| 01:36:15 |
|
OKAY. WHATEVER THE DEFINITION IS, DID 9/11 CHANGE THAT DEFINITION? |
| 01:36:22 |
|
OF THE -- 9/11 DID NOT CHANGE THE DEFINITION OF TORTURE UNDER THE CONVENTION AGAINST TORTURE, NO,... |
| 01:36:29 |
|
OKAY. NOW, IF PEOPLE -- IF THE UNITED STATES OFFICIALS TORTURE PEOPLE BASED ON YOUR MEMO, WOULD THEY... |
| 01:36:56 |
|
MR. SCOTT, PUTTING ASIDE -- SORRY. PUTTING ASIDE WHETHER IT'S BEEN DISPARAGED OR NOT, THE PURPOSE... |
| 01:37:14 |
|
MR. SCHROEDER, PROFESSOR SCHROEDER, CAN A LEGAL OPINION BE SO RIDICULOUS THAT IT DOES NOT PROTECT... |
| 01:37:26 |
|
WELL, IT COULD BE, CONGRESSMAN, BUT IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE EFFECT IT WOULD HAVE ON SOMEBODY SAY... |
| 01:37:53 |
|
WELL, CAN THE OPINION BE SO RIDICULOUS THAT AS IT GOES DOWN THE LINE PEOPLE OUGHT TO HAVE THE COMMON... |
| 01:38:20 |
|
NO, I DON'T BELIEVE THEY DO. I THINK THAT PEOPLE, AND YOU WOULD EXPECT MEMBERS OF THE MILITARY WOULD... |
| 01:38:32 |
|
IS IT AN EXCUSE TO TORTURE IF YOU'VE GOT GOOD INFORMATION FROM THE TORTURE? |
| 01:38:37 |
|
NOT UNDER THE TREATY, AND I THINK NOT UNDER THE STATUTE THAT IMPLEMENTS THE TREATY, NO. |
| 01:38:43 |
|
IS IT AN EXCUSE TO TORTURE IF YOU CAN'T GET THE INFORMATION YOU'RE LOOKING FOR USING LESS AGGRESSIVE... |
| 01:38:50 |
|
NO, SIR. THE TREATY ADMITS OF NO EXCEPTIONS. |
| 01:38:56 |
|
NOW, MR. YOO, IF YOU'RE GOING TO GO AROUND TORTURING PEOPLE BASED ON YOUR MEMO, HOW DO YOU KNOW BEFORE... |
| 01:39:13 |
|
SIR, I'M NOT GOING AROUND TORTURING PEOPLE AS YOU JUST SAID, AND THE MEMO DOES NOT AUTHORIZE ANYONE... |
| 01:39:25 |
|
ARE YOU SUGGESTING THAT THE ACTIVITIES ALLOWABLE UNDER YOUR MEMO DO NOT CONSTITUTE TORTURE BY EVERYBODY'S... |
| 01:39:35 |
|
SIR, I DON'T KNOW WHAT EVERYBODY ELSE'S DEFINITION IN THE WORLD IS. |
| 01:39:41 |
|
OKAY. NOW, IS IT AN EXCUSE TO USE MORE AGGRESSIVE TECHNIQUES, THE TECHNIQUES THAT YOU CAN USE, DO... |
| 01:40:08 |
|
SIR, AS I UNDERSTAND THE STATUTE AS IT IS WRITTEN NOW, IT DOES NOT PROVIDE -- IT DOES NOT PROVIDE... |
| 01:40:31 |
|
THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. |
| 01:40:32 |
|
THANK YOU. THE GENTLEMAN FROM NORTH CAROLINA IS RECOGNIZED FOR FIVE MINUTES. |
| 01:40:37 |
|
THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. I THANK THE WITNESSES FOR BEING HERE. I KIND OF OBSERVED FROM THE EARLIER... |
| 01:42:40 |
|
OKAY. ALL RIGHT. I THINK I UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT THEN. WHEN -- WELL, LET ME FIRST OF ALL ASK YOU,... |
| 01:43:44 |
|
CONGRESSMAN, I HOPE I'M NOW NOT GOING TO JOIN MR. YOO AND MR. ADDINGTON AND BE UNABLE TO RESPOND TO... |
| 01:44:03 |
|
WOULD THAT BE AUTHORIZED BY MR. YOO'S MEMO? |
| 01:44:08 |
|
I WOULD HAVE TO FRANKLY KNOW MORE ABOUT WATERBOARDING THAN I DO. |
| 01:44:11 |
|
I'M SORRY. |
| 01:44:13 |
|
THIS IS NOT A TRICK QUESTION. I'M JUST TRYING TO GET -- |
| 01:44:15 |
|
I WISH I COULD BE HELPFUL, BUT I JUST DON'T HAVE -- |
| 01:44:21 |
|
ASSUME THAT A POLICY DECISION WAS MADE TO GO BEYOND THE LEGAL MEMORANDUM AND ADVICE THAT MR. YOO GAVE.... |
| 01:44:57 |
|
I JUST HATE TO USE THE WORD IN THIS COMMITTEE THAT HAS HAD TO CONSIDER THE MATTERS IN THE PAST. IT... |
| 01:45:11 |
|
AND I GUESS THIS IS THE SAME QUESTION THAT MR. SCOTT WAS ASKING AT SOME LEVEL. WHEN AN ATTORNEY GIVES... |
| 01:45:48 |
|
WELL, PROCEEDINGS WITH A BAR ASSOCIATION IS ONE POSSIBILITY, BUT YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT I'M NOT... |
| 01:45:57 |
|
I'M NOT SUGGESTING THAT -- |
| 01:45:59 |
|
THE ADVICE BEING GIVEN BY THE INDIVIDUALS WHO GAVE THEM WAS UNDER THEIR UNDERSTANDING OF THE LAW AT... |
| 01:46:09 |
|
THIS IS A HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION. I'M SEPARATING IT FROM MR. YOO'S OPINION. IS THERE SOME RECOURSE... |
| 01:46:26 |
|
WELL, I THINK AS FAR AS THIS INSTITUTION GOES, I'M NOT AWARE OF LAWS ON THE BOOKS THAT WOULD REACH... |
| 01:46:54 |
|
SO REALLY CONGRESS AND THE PUBLIC REALLY HAS LITTLE RECOURSE OTHER THAN MALPRACTICE? |
| 01:47:02 |
|
I WOULD THINK A DISCIPLINARY PROCEEDING BEFORE THE BAR ASSOCIATION LEADING TO DISBARMENT WOULD BE... |
| 01:47:15 |
|
OKAY. MY TIME HAS EXPIRED, AND I APPRECIATE YOU BEING RESPONSIVE TO THE QUESTIONS. I YIELD BACK.... |
| 01:47:26 |
|
I THANK THE GENTLEMAN. I NOW RECOGNIZE THE FIVE MINUTES FOR THE GENTLEMAN FROM TENNESSEE. |
| 01:47:30 |
|
THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN. AND THANK YOU, THE GENTLEMAN FROM NORTH CAROLINA. MR. YOO, YOU WORKED FOR... |
| 01:47:41 |
|
MR. ASHCROFT WAS THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, UH-HUH, WHEN I WAS AT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT. |
| 01:47:44 |
|
DID YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF AN EMPLOYEE OF HIS? |
| 01:47:49 |
|
I'M SORRY, SIR? |
| 01:47:51 |
|
YOU WERE AN EMPLOYEE OF HIS? YOU WERE IN THE CHAIN OF COMMAND. YOU WERE UNDERNEATH HIM, |
| 01:47:54 |
|
YES, SIR. |
| 01:47:56 |
|
DID YOU COMMUNICATE WITH MR. ADDINGTON SOMETIMES AND NOT RELAY THOSE COMMUNICATIONS THROUGH MR. ASHCROFT'S... |
| 01:48:07 |
|
SIR, I NEVER DID ANYTHING TO KEEP MR. ASHCROFT OUT OF THE LOOP. |
| 01:48:13 |
|
SO MR. ASHCROFT HAD KNOWLEDGE OF EVERYTHING THAT YOU DISCUSSED WITH MR. ADDINGTON, IS THAT CORRECT,... |
| 01:48:22 |
|
AS I EXPLAINED IN MY OPENING STATEMENT IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE AUGUST 2002 MEMO, WE NOTIFIED THE... |
| 01:48:48 |
|
DID GENERAL ASHCROFT EVER EXPRESS TO YOU CONCERNS ABOUT YOUR RELATIONSHIP TO HIS OFFICE, VIS-A-VIS... |
| 01:49:03 |
|
I DON'T THINK ACCORDING TO THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT'S GUIDELINES I AM ALLOWED TO DISCUSS WITH YOU ANY... |
| 01:49:11 |
|
THE GENTLEMAN WILL SUSPEND AGAIN. AGAIN, MR. YOO, IN ORDER FOR YOU TO ASSERT A PRIVILEGE AS A BASIS... |
| 01:49:41 |
|
SIR, ANY CONVERSATIONS I HAD WITH ANY INDIVIDUAL IN THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH IS COVERED BY THE INSTRUCTION... |
| 01:49:55 |
|
NO, NO, NO. THIS PARTICULAR QUESTION, WHICH PRIVILEGE ARE YOU ASSERTING? |
| 01:50:01 |
|
I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE IT IS THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT THAT IS ASSERTING IT. AND IT IS AN ATTORNEY-CLIENT... |
| 01:50:14 |
|
WELL, WAIT A MINUTE. IF YOU ARE -- HOW IS THE ATTORNEY/CLIENT PRIVILEGE IMPLICATED IN A QUESTION ABOUT... |
| 01:50:44 |
|
SIR, IT'S THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT THAT HAS ALREADY DECIDED IN GIVING ME THESE INSTRUCTIONS THAT ALL... |
| 01:51:02 |
|
THE INSTRUCTIONS -- WE WERE GIVEN A COPY OF THE INSTRUCTIONS. HE'S NOT AUTHORIZED TO DISCUSS SPECIFIC... |
| 01:51:50 |
|
MAY I CONSULT WITH MY ATTORNEY? |
| 01:51:56 |
|
CERTAINLY. |
| 01:52:29 |
|
AFTER CONSULTATION WITH MY ATTORNEYS I'LL ANSWER THE QUESTION WHICH IS MY RECOLLECTION IS THAT, NO,... |
| 01:52:38 |
|
DID YOU HAVE ANY DISCUSSIONS WITH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AT ALL WHERE HE EXPRESSED ANY CONCERN THAT... |
| 01:52:54 |
|
MR. COHEN, I DO NOT RECALL ANY CONVERSATION OF THAT NATURE. |
| 01:53:00 |
|
SO IF THE "WASHINGTON POST" REPORTED GENERAL ASHCROFT WAS UPSET AND IF HE SAID HE WAS UPSET ABOUT... |
| 01:53:13 |
|
NO, SIR. LET ME EXPLAIN. FIRST OF ALL, WHAT GENERAL ASHCROFT EXPRESSED TO OTHER PEOPLE OR IF HE TALKED... |
| 01:53:23 |
|
RIGHT, IT'S BEYOND YOU. |
| 01:53:25 |
|
YOUR QUESTION IS WHETHER HE EXPRESSED IT TO ME, AND MY -- |
| 01:53:28 |
|
I HAVE -- |
| 01:53:30 |
|
YOU DON'T RECALL IT. I'VE BEEN HERE FOR A WHILE. YOU ARTICULATED A DEFINITION OF A LEGAL CONDUCT AND... |
| 01:53:44 |
|
SIR, I BELIEVE YOU'RE REFERRING TO THE MEMO THAT WAS SENT BY THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TO THE DEPARTMENT... |
| 01:54:04 |
|
I'M TRYING TO TELL YOU WHERE IT ARISES, SIR, WHICH WAS IN THIS MEMO WHERE THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT WAS... |
| 01:54:24 |
|
BUT YOU ALSO SAID THAT, AND YOU EXPLAINED THAT WHETHER THE CONDUCT IS CONSCIOUS SHOCKING TURNS IN... |
| 01:54:34 |
|
COULD YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION? |
| 01:54:37 |
|
DID YOU ALSO GO FURTHER AND SAY THAT WHETHER THE CONDUCT IS CON SHUNS SHOCKING DEPENCE ON WHETHER... |
| 01:54:46 |
|
SIR, IT'S IN THE MEMO. THE MEMO -- |
| 01:54:49 |
|
SO THAT'S TRUE THEN? THE ANSWER IS YES. |
| 01:54:52 |
|
THE MEMO SAID THAT. |
| 01:54:54 |
|
AND IT WOULD HAVE TO BE INSPIRED BY MALICE OR SADISM BEFORE IT COULD BE PROSECUTED. |
| 01:54:59 |
|
THAT'S TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT IN THE SENSE THAT THE MEMO, AS I READ IT, DOES NOT SAY THAT YOU MUST HAVE... |
| 01:55:06 |
|
WHERE DID THOSE WORDS COME FROM? |
| 01:55:08 |
|
THEY COME FROM, SIR, IN THE MEMO THEY COME FROM THE CASE LAW. THEY COME FROM THE DECISIONS OF THE... |
| 01:55:29 |
|
ARE YOU SAYING THAT THE LAW STATES IT'S NOT HOW THE PERSON THAT'S BEING TORTURED IS RECEIVING THE... |
| 01:55:45 |
|
SIR. |
| 01:55:46 |
|
IT'S OKAY AS LONG AS I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR THE COUNTRY? |
| 01:55:50 |
|
THE MEMO DOES NOT SAY THAT. THE MEMO QUOTES FEDERAL CASES THAT CITE THIS AS ONE AMONGST MANY FACTORS... |
| 01:56:00 |
|
IS THERE ANYTHING YOU THINK THAT THE PRESIDENT CANNOT ORDER IN THE TERMS OF INTERROGATION OF THESE... |
| 01:56:10 |
|
SO, SIR, YOU'RE ASKING MY OPINION NOW, NOT WHAT WE ADDRESSED IN THE OPINIONS |
| 01:56:14 |
|
RIGHT NOW. WHAT'S YOUR OPINION NOW? |
| 01:56:18 |
|
THE OPINIONS IN 2002 AND 2003 DO NOT ADDRESS THAT QUESTION. |
| 01:56:21 |
|
BECAUSE -- |
| 01:56:23 |
|
WHAT IS YOUR OPINION NOW? |
| 01:56:25 |
|
LET ME FINISH. I'M JUST TRYING TO FINISH MY ANSWER. |
| 01:56:28 |
|
YOU'RE TRYING TO STRETCH OUT FIVE MINUTES. |
| 01:56:30 |
|
I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT TIME -- |
| 01:56:32 |
|
YOU GUYS ARE GREAT ON BEAT THE CLOCK. |
| 01:56:34 |
|
I DON'T PLAY BASKETBALL. |
| 01:56:36 |
|
THAT WAS A GAME SHOW. MAYBE IT WAS BYT. |
| 01:56:39 |
|
I GUESS IT WAS BEFORE MY TIME, SIR. |
| 01:56:42 |
|
THAT'S IT, BYT. |
| 01:56:44 |
|
SIR, LET ME ANSWER THE QUESTION. SO THOSE QUESTIONS ARE NOT ADDRESSED IN THOSE MEMOS. THEY WERE NOT... |
| 01:57:08 |
|
WITHOUT OBJECTION THE GENTLEMAN IS GRANTED ONE ADDITIONAL MINUTE. WOULD THE GENTLEMAN YIELD FOR A... |
| 01:57:15 |
|
YES, SIR. |
| 01:57:17 |
|
MR. YOO, THIS IS THE SECOND TIME TODAY OR THE THIRD THAT YOU SAID YOU DON'T BELIEVE AN AMERICAN PRESIDENT... |
| 01:57:35 |
|
YEAH. |
| 01:57:38 |
|
THE QUESTION IS TO YOU. |
| 01:57:40 |
|
I'M NOT -- THAT WAS THE QUESTION. |
| 01:57:42 |
|
THAT IS YOUR QUESTION. |
| 01:57:43 |
|
THE QUESTION IS NOT WOULD AN AMERICAN PRESIDENT ORDER SUCH TERRIBLE THINGS, BUT COULD HE LEGALLY DO... |
| 01:57:51 |
|
I THINK IT'S NOT FAIR TO ASK THAT QUESTION WITHOUT ANY KIND OF FACTS, ANY KIND OF -- YOU'RE ASKING... |
| 01:58:00 |
|
SO IN OTHER WORDS THERE IS NOTHING CONCEIVABLE -- |
| 01:58:02 |
|
I'M NOT -- |
| 01:58:03 |
|
LET ME FINISH THE QUESTION BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M GOING TO ASK. THERE IS NOTHING CONCEIVABLE... |
| 01:58:16 |
|
SIR, I HAVE TOLD YOU I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT BECAUSE YOU ARE TRYING TO PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH ABOUT... |
| 01:58:31 |
|
I YIELD BACK TO THE GENTLEMAN. |
| 01:58:34 |
|
LET ME ASK MR. ADDINGTON, WHAT BRANCH OF THE GOVERNMENT IS THE VICE PRESIDENT'S -- |
| 01:58:38 |
|
MR. CHAIRMAN, CAN WE RETURN TO REGULAR ORDER. |
| 01:58:41 |
|
IF I CAN PURSUE THE QUESTION. |
| 01:58:43 |
|
THE GENTLEMAN IS GRANTED ANOTHER ADDITIONAL MINUTE. |
| 01:58:46 |
|
OBJECTION. |
| 01:58:47 |
|
WHAT BRANCH IS THE VICE PRESIDENT IN? |
| 01:58:49 |
|
OBJECTION, MR. CHAIRMAN. |
| 01:58:50 |
|
OBJECTION TO ONE ADDITIONAL MINUTE? |
| 01:58:53 |
|
I'M OBJECTING TO THE EX TEN WATION OF THIS INTERROGATION THAT'S GOING ON AND SOME OF THIS PROCESS... |
| 01:59:02 |
|
I WILL ASK A UNANIMOUS REQUEST FOR AN ADDITIONAL MINUTE. |
| 01:59:07 |
|
NOW I DON'T OBJECT. |
| 01:59:10 |
|
THANK YOU. GRANTED AN ADDITIONAL MINUTE BY UNANIMOUS CONSENT. |
| 01:59:15 |
|
WHAT BRANCH ARE WE IN. |
| 01:59:17 |
|
THE VICE PRESIDENT BELONGS NEITHER TO THE EXECUTIVE OR TO THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH BUT IS ATTACHED BY... |
| 01:59:47 |
|
SO HE'S A MEMBER OF THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH. |
| 01:59:50 |
|
TO VICE PRESIDENT JOHNSON AND I OFFER THOSE AS EXHIBIT -- |
| 01:59:53 |
|
IS HE -- |
| 01:59:54 |
|
WITHOUT OBJECTION THEY'LL BE ENTERED INTO THE RECORD. |
| 01:59:56 |
|
HE'S A MEMBER OF THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH? |
| 01:59:58 |
|
I SAID ATTACHED BY THE CONSTITUTION TO THE LATTER. HE IS NOT A MEMBER OF THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH BECAUSE... |
| 02:00:25 |
|
BUT HE'S ATTACHED TO THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH. |
| 02:00:28 |
|
SO HE'S A BARNACLE. |
| 02:00:29 |
|
THE VICE PRESIDENT SINCE HE'S NOT FISH NOW FOWL, HE'S JUST ATTACHED TO SOMETHING. |
| 02:00:33 |
|
IT'S NOT EXCLUSIVE IN THE CONSTITUTION TO HAVE THAT SITUATION. |
| 02:00:37 |
|
THE TIME OF THE GENTLEMAN HAS |
| 02:00:38 |
|
THANK YOU. |
| 02:00:39 |
|
THE TIME OF THE GENTLEMAN HAS EXPIRED. THE GENTLEMAN FROM MASSACHUSETTS, MR. DELAHUNT, WHO IS A MEMBER... |
| 02:00:59 |
|
MR. CHAIRMAN, I THANK THE CHAIRMAN, AND MR. CHAIRMAN, AT THE REQUEST OF THE RANKING MEMBER, SMITH,... |
| 02:02:02 |
|
THE GENTLEMAN'S OBJECTION IS UNFORTUNATELY, GROUND HAPPENED IN THE RULES. AND THE GENTLEMAN'S OBJECTION'S... |
| 02:02:36 |
|
MR. ADDINGTON. YOU STATED TO MS. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ EARLIER THAT YOUR INVOLVEMENT IN THE C.I.A. PROGRAM... |
| 02:02:57 |
|
WE HAD A NUMBER OF MEETINGS AS YOU MIGHT IMAGINE. ONE WAS WITH THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT TO OBTAIN LEGAL... |
| 02:03:13 |
|
YOU JUST SAID YOU ARE NOT PART OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH. |
| 02:03:18 |
|
WITH A NUMBER OF OTHER LAWYERS. ALL I AM, SIR, IS AN EMPLOYEE OF THE VICE PRESIDENT. |
| 02:03:25 |
|
WHY WAS THAT OFFICE INVOLVED |
| 02:03:31 |
|
VICE PRESIDENT COMBIFFS ADVICE TO PRESIDENTS. THAT IS WHAT THEY SPEND THE MAJORITY OF THEIR TIME DOING.... |
| 02:03:46 |
|
AND AS SUCH, THEY PARTICIPATE IN VARIOUS AGENCIES' BUSINESS? |
| 02:03:50 |
|
NO. CONGRESS HAS RECOGNIZED THAT FUNCTION ACCORDING TO SECTION 106, TITLE 3, THAT THEY PROVIDE ASSISTANCE.... |
| 02:04:15 |
|
SO THE PRESIDENT ASKED YOU IN EFFECT OR SOMEONE ON BEHALF OF THE PRESIDENT AUTHORIZED THAT? |
| 02:04:21 |
|
WE WERE INCLUDED BECAUSE IT IS THE PRACTICE OF THIS ADMINISTRATION, STRONGER AT SOMETIMES THAN OTHERS.... |
| 02:04:29 |
|
PURSUANT TO THE PRESIDENT'S ORGANIZATION. DID YOU HAVE ANY INVOLVEMENT IN THE C.I.A.'S ORGANIZATION... |
| 02:04:36 |
|
TO DESTROY, NO, SIR. |
| 02:04:38 |
|
IF THE C.I.A. PROGRAM WAS FOUND TO BE UNLAWFUL, WOULD YOU BEAR ANY RESPONSIBILITY FOR THAT? |
| 02:04:44 |
|
IF THE C.I.A. PROGRAM IS FOUND TO BE UNLAWFUL? IS THAT A MORAL QUESTION, A LEGAL QUESTION? |
| 02:04:51 |
|
INTERPRET IT AS YOU WILL, EITHER WAY. |
| 02:04:56 |
|
I BELIEVE -- AND I AM SOMEWHAT SYMPATHETIC TO THE APPROACH PROFESSOR SCHROEDER TOOK THAT THE LEGAL... |
| 02:05:31 |
|
NO. |
| 02:05:33 |
|
MR. YOO, THE "WASHINGTON POST" HAS INDICATED THAT ATTORNEY GENERAL ASHCROFT AND OTHERS WERE NOT AWARE... |
| 02:05:56 |
|
WE RECEIVED THE QUESTION FROM THE DEFENSE DEPARTMENT. WE NOTIFIED THEM THAT WE HAD RECEIVED THE REQUEST.... |
| 02:06:03 |
|
DID YOU NOTIFY THEM AND SEND THEM A COPY OF THE MEMO? D THE DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE. |
| 02:06:12 |
|
DID YOU NOTIFY THEM AND SEND THEM A COPY? |
| 02:06:14 |
|
SURE, WE SENT THEM DRAFTS OF THE MEMO TO BOTH OFFICES. |
| 02:06:18 |
|
AND THE FINAL ONE? |
| 02:06:19 |
|
YES, SIR. WE ALSO SENT -- |
| 02:06:22 |
|
OKAY. |
| 02:06:26 |
|
WHAT? WHAT DO YOU MEAN VERSION US? SENT THEM A COPY OF THE FINAL MEMO? |
| 02:06:30 |
|
YES, SIR. |
| 02:06:32 |
|
OKAY, THANK YOU. YOUR PREPARED TESTIMONY SAYS THE OFFICES OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND THE DEPUTY AG... |
| 02:06:45 |
|
IN RESPONSE TO YOUR QUESTION, SIR, AS YOU KNOW, THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT HAS INSTRUCTED ME NOT TO DISCUSS... |
| 02:06:53 |
|
NOT TO NAME THOSE WHO RECEIVED THE DRAFT. I DON'T THINK THAT WAS IN THE INSTRUCTIONS, NUMBER ONE AND... |
| 02:07:02 |
|
EXCUSE ME, ONE SECOND, SIR. |
| 02:07:03 |
|
SHOW ME THAT INSTRUCTION AGAIN. |
| 02:08:11 |
|
MR. CHAIRMAN. |
| 02:08:13 |
|
YES, SIR. |
| 02:08:15 |
|
I THINK THAT MY RECOLLECTION AT THE TIME WAS THAT IN DELIVERING THE DRAFTS OF THE MEMO TO THE OFFICE... |
| 02:08:28 |
|
AND WHO WAS THE COUNSELOR. |
| 02:08:31 |
|
THE NAME IS ADAM CHUNGOLI. |
| 02:08:32 |
|
THANK YOU. |
| 02:08:36 |
|
AND MY RECOLLECTION AS TO THE DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE AND -- I'LL SAY I CAN'T SAY DEFINITIVELY... |
| 02:08:59 |
|
CHRIS RACE, THANK YOU. NOW WITHOUT DIVULGING THE CONTENTS OF ANY DISCUSSIONS DID THOSE OFFICES MAKE... |
| 02:09:12 |
|
YEAH, WITHOUT DIVULGING THE CONTENT -- |
| 02:09:14 |
|
DID TAY MAKE ANY? |
| 02:09:18 |
|
I IS I CAN SAY -- WAS YOUR QUESTION COMMENTS OR -- |
| 02:09:21 |
|
COMMENTS OR REVISIONS. |
| 02:09:23 |
|
I CAN SAY THAT WE RECEIVED -- |
| 02:09:26 |
|
HOW ABOUT SEPARATING THEM. |
| 02:09:27 |
|
YES. |
| 02:09:28 |
|
REVISIONS? |
| 02:09:29 |
|
I WOULD SAY WE RECEIVED COMMENTS. I DON'T RECALL REVISIONS ONE WAY OVER THE OTHER, SIR. |
| 02:09:34 |
|
OKAY. AND CAN YOU SAY WHO MADE THOSE COMMENTS? COMMENTS? |
| 02:09:46 |
|
ANY COMMENTS WE WOULD HAVE RECEIVED I WOULD HAVE COME FROM THE PEOPLE I JUST MENTIONED, THE COUNSELOR... |
| 02:09:55 |
|
OKAY, WITHOUT OBJECTION I WILL GRANT THE CHAIRMAN ONE ADDITIONAL MINUTE. DID YOU EVER UNDERSTAND THAT... |
| 02:10:07 |
|
LET ME SAY, SIR, WE COULD NOT HAVE ISSUED SUCH AN OPINION WITHOUT THE APPROVAL OF THE OFFICE OF THE... |
| 02:10:21 |
|
WELL, I CAN'T RECALL WHETHER THEY SENT MEMO OR SOMETHING SIGNING. |
| 02:10:25 |
|
YOU COULDN'T HAVE ISSUED WITHOUT THE APPROVAL OF THE OFFICE OF THE AG OVER THE DEPUTY AG. WHAT DO... |
| 02:10:35 |
|
SIR, YOU'RE ASKING -- I MEAN I WOULDN'T KNOW, SIR, JUST PERSONALLY WHETHER THE -- |
| 02:10:41 |
|
WELL THE AG -- |
| 02:10:43 |
|
WHETHER PERSONALLY APPROVED IT. BUT WAIT JUSTICE DEPARTMENT WORKS IS WE RECEIVE COMMUNICATIONS FROM... |
| 02:10:49 |
|
OKAY. AND FINALLY, WHY WAS THE MEMO -- OR THE OPINION, RATHER, SIGNED BY YOU INSTEAD OF BY THE HEAD... |
| 02:11:04 |
|
YES. |
| 02:11:06 |
|
I DON'T HAVE THE DATES IN FRONT OF ME RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME. BUT MY RECOLLECTION IS THAT JAY BIBE,... |
| 02:11:33 |
|
OKAY, PROFESSOR SCHRADER, COULD YOU COMMENT BRIEFLY ON THAT ANSWER -- ON THAT QUESTION, RATHER. |
| 02:11:40 |
|
WELL, I ONLY KNOW RECORDED ELSEWHERE WHICH IS THAT JAY BIBE WENT ONTO THE BENCH ABOUT TEN DAYS AFTER... |
| 02:11:59 |
|
AND AFTER HE WENT ON THE BENCH, WHO WAS THE ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL? WHO TOOK THAT POSITION IMMEDIATELY... |
| 02:12:12 |
|
THERE WAS AN ACTING ASSISTANT ASSISTANT. NO NOMINEE. |
| 02:12:14 |
|
SOMEONE ACTING? |
| 02:12:16 |
|
IT WAS AN ACTING ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL. |
| 02:12:18 |
|
AND TOO LATE FOR MR. BIBE TO SIGN IT, WHY NOT THAT GENTLEMAN OR LADY SIGN IT? |
| 02:12:25 |
|
WELL, YOU KNOW AS YOU KNOW, MR. CHAIRMAN, YOU KNOW CLASSIFIED MATTERS CAN ONLY BE DISCUSSED WITH PEOPLE... |
| 02:12:34 |
|
SO JUST TO CUT TO THE CHASE, SO THAT PERSON MAY NOT HAVE BEEN CLEARED AT THAT POINT? |
| 02:12:40 |
|
I'M JUST TRYING TO REMEMBER, SIR. BUT I DO NOT BELIEVE AT THAT -- MY RECOLLECTION IS THAT I DON'T... |
| 02:12:48 |
|
THANK YOU MY, TIME IS EXPIRED. I RECOGNIZE FOR FIVE MINUTES THE DISTINGUISHED CHAIRMAN OF THE FULL... |
| 02:13:11 |
|
THANK YOU, STEPHEN KING. PROFESSOR SCHRADER, AS THE FORMER ACTING DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF LEGAL... |
| 02:13:41 |
|
YES, MR. CHAIRMAN. IT'S UNUSUAL IN MY EXPERIENCE FOR MEMORANDA AS SIGNIFICANT AS THE MARCH '03 MEMO,... |
| 02:16:19 |
|
OUR WITNESS, PROFESSOR, YOU HAS CLAIMED THAT THERE WAS A LACK OF GUIDANCE ON THE MEANING OF TORTURE... |
| 02:16:45 |
|
WELL, I THINK TO AMPLIFY ON WHAT I JUST SAID I THINK THAT THERE ARE SOURCES OF UNDERSTANDING. WORK... |
| 02:17:28 |
|
OF COURSE, OF COURSE. AND THE LAST COMMENT WITH REFERENCE TO PROFESSOR YOO'S TESTIMONY, IT SEEMS HE'S... |
| 02:18:04 |
|
WELL, MR. CHAIRMAN, THAT'S NOT MY UNDERSTANDING. DAN LEVIN WHO OFFERED THE DECEMBER 21st, 2004 MEMO... |
| 02:18:38 |
|
THANK YOU VERY MUCH. |
| 02:18:41 |
|
I THANK THE GENTLEMEN. THE GENTLEMAN FROM MINNESOTA IS RECOGNIZED FOR FIVE MINUTES. |
| 02:18:49 |
|
PROFESSOR SCHRADER, WHEN A PERSON WHO WAS AT OLC OR IN POLICYMAKING -- WELL, A LAWYER AT OLC DRAFTS... |
| 02:19:17 |
|
WELL, IT WILL VARY FROM TOPIC TO TOPIC. BUT IT WOULD NOT BE UNUSUAL FOR OFFICE OF LEGAL COUNSEL'S... |
| 02:19:45 |
|
IN YOUR EXPERIENCE, WOULD IT BE AT ALL UNUSUAL IF SOMEBODY WHO WAS ACTUALLY TRYING TO CARRY OUT AND... |
| 02:20:11 |
|
NO, THAT WOULDN'T BE UNUSUAL AT ALL. UNUSUAL AT ALL. |
| 02:20:17 |
|
YEAH, SO I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, ONE OF THE THINGS I'D LIKE -- I THINK WE SHOULD KNOW MORE ABOUT IS... |
| 02:20:43 |
|
WELL, TYPICALLY THOSE SORTS OF ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS WOULD COME, I THINK, FIRST, IF YOU'RE TALKING... |
| 02:21:15 |
|
RIGHT. |
| 02:21:16 |
|
SO THERE WOULD BE A COMMUNICATION OF SOMEONE IN THE OTHER DEPARTMENT OR BRANCH WAS CONFUSED. THE TENDENCY... |
| 02:21:30 |
|
RIGHT. NOW MR. ADDINGTON, YOU'VE GONE INTO GUANTANAMO BAY. WERE THERE YOU DURING AN INTERROGATION... |
| 02:21:41 |
|
AS A MENTIONED THIS MORNING TO MS. WASSERMAN SCHULTZ, I HAVE A RECOLLECTION PERHAPS NOT ON THE 2007... |
| 02:22:03 |
|
NOW, DID THE INTERROGATORS EVER ASK YOU ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW THE INTERROGATION COULD BE LEGALLY... |
| 02:22:13 |
|
I DON'T RECALL THEM DOING IT. NO, SIR. AND I DON'T BELIEVE THEY DID. IT WOULDN'T BE APPROPRIATE FOR... |
| 02:22:24 |
|
WHAT ABOUT INDIRECT? AN INTERROGATOR WENT OUT, MIGHT HAVE TALKED TO SOMEONE WITHIN THEIR AGENCY. ... |
| 02:22:38 |
|
I SPOKE WITH A GENERAL COUNSEL'S OFFICE OF THE CENTRAL INTELLIGENT AGENCY AS A NUMBER OF FOLKS AS... |
| 02:22:56 |
|
SO DOD, YOU'RE SPEAKING IN |
| 02:22:58 |
|
GENERAL COUNCIL. |
| 02:23:00 |
|
AND WHO IS THE INDIVIDUAL YOU HAVE IN MIND AT THE CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY? |
| 02:23:06 |
|
THE -- WELL, EARLY ON, IT WAS THEIR GENERAL COUNSEL AND HE LEFT AND WENT BACK TO NEW YORK TO PRACTICE... |
| 02:23:09 |
|
WHAT'S HIS NAME? |
| 02:23:12 |
|
AND ACTING GENERAL COUNSEL. THE GENERAL COUNSELOR IS SCOTT MUELLER. M-U-L-L-E-R. AND HE LEFT. AND... |
| 02:23:25 |
|
DID YOU WITNESS INTERROGATION PROCESS GOING FORWARD WHILE YOU WERE IN GITMO? |
| 02:23:30 |
|
I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE TO SAY WHAT I ALREADY SAID. I REMEMBER SEEING YOU KNOW THROUGH THE OBSERVATION... |
| 02:23:37 |
|
COULD YOU HEAR IT? |
| 02:23:38 |
|
I DON'T RECALL IF YOU COULD HEAR IT. YOU COULD JUST SEE IT. |
| 02:23:42 |
|
WERE YOU PART OF A GROUP OF FOLKS WHO MADE LEGAL DECISIONS ON A REGULAR AND ROUTINE BASIS THAT WOULD... |
| 02:24:17 |
|
I TALK REGULARLY IN LOTS OF DIFFERENT MEETINGS WITH THE COUNCIL TO THE PRESIDENT AND THE DEPUTY. ... |
| 02:24:31 |
|
SO DID YOU AND MR. GONZALEZ AND HAINES HAVE SORT OF AN ONGOING RESPONSIBILITY OR AUTHORITY TO GUIDE... |
| 02:24:51 |
|
NO, I THINK IT'S MORE MONITORING WHAT'S GOING ON, DISCUSSING IT AND IF YOU NEED LEGAL ADVICE ON THE... |
| 02:25:22 |
|
DO YOU DENY BEING A MEMBER OF A WAR COUNSEL THAT INCLUDED ALBERTO GONZALEZ, MR. HAINES AND YOURSELF?... |
| 02:25:27 |
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NO THAT, IT'S INTERESTING, I NEVER HEARD THAT LABEL UNTIL JACK GOLDSMITH WROTE HIS BOOK "THE TERROR... |
| 02:25:48 |
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SO DO YOU DENY IT OR DO YOU ADMIT IT? |
| 02:25:50 |
|
NO, I THINK I JUST SAID. I JUST ANSWER NAD QUESTION. |
| 02:25:52 |
|
I DON'T THINK THAT YOU DID. |
| 02:25:55 |
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WELL, AS I SAID, I MET REGULARLY WITH MR. HAINES, SOMETIMES THE CIA GENERAL COUNSELOR. THE DEPUTY... |
| 02:26:26 |
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THAT FAST. |
| 02:26:28 |
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GENTLEMEN, YOUR TIME HAS EXPIRED. GENTLEMAN FROM IOWA IS RECOGNIZED FOR FIVE MINUTES. THANK YOU,... |
| 02:27:27 |
|
JUST OFF OF THE TOP OF MY HEAD -- YOU'RE GETTING ME HERE IN FRONT THE CAMERAS AND THE MICROPHONE --... |
| 02:27:32 |
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I'M NOT TRYING TO. |
| 02:27:34 |
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AND AS I SAID LAWYERS ARE VERY PRECISE AND CAREFUL AS YOU ALL DO WHEN YOU ACTUALLY DRAFT AND PASS... |
| 02:28:21 |
|
AND I APPRECIATETA. MR. YOO? |
| 02:28:25 |
|
IN THE SPEAKING NOW, I THINK THAT IT IS A DIFFICULT PROBLEM. I THINK THE WAY THAT STATUTE WAS FIRST... |
| 02:29:19 |
|
AND JUST TO REPHRASE -- RESTATE MY QUESTION IS YOU KNOW IS IT POSSIBLE TO PRECISELY DEFINE TORTURE... |
| 02:29:39 |
|
WELL, I THINK -- |
| 02:29:40 |
|
TO TAKE TORTURE IT A LEVEL -- IS THERE A LEVEL BETWEEN, THE ARMY MANUAL AND THAT IS LIMITED BY THE... |
| 02:29:47 |
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SIR, LET ME SAY THAT I HAVEN'T WRITTEN ANY OPINIONS ABOUT IN ISSUE. THIS ALL HAPPENED AFTER I LEFT... |
| 02:30:15 |
|
AND AS -- MR. ADDINGTON, ON THAT SAME? |
| 02:30:17 |
|
REPEAT THE QUESTION PLEASE. |
| 02:30:19 |
|
IS THERE ROOM, DO YOU BELIEVE, BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES ARMY FIELD MANUAL ON INTELLIGENCE INTERROGATION... |
| 02:30:30 |
|
IS THERE -- IN OTHER WORDS ARE THERE THINGS NOT PERMITTED BY THE ARMY MANUAL THAT ARE NEFRMS SORT... |
| 02:30:35 |
|
YES. |
| 02:30:37 |
|
I BELIEVE THE LEGAL OPINIONS OF THE OFFICE LEGAL COUNCIL OF THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT INDICATE, YES.... |
| 02:31:36 |
|
AS I MENTIONED IN THE BEGINNING, THE THREE FILTERS IN MY MIND AS I LOOK AT THESE ISSUES. THE THIRD... |
| 02:32:50 |
|
THE TIME OF THE GENTLEMEN IS EXPIRED. I RECOGNIZE THE GENTLEMAN FROM ALABAMA FOR FIVE MINUTES. |
| 02:32:59 |
|
THANK YOU FOR FORGIVING ME FOR NOT BEING IN MY PLACE EARLIER. THE CLOCK CUT US OFF BEFORE I HAD A... |
| 02:34:14 |
|
YOU ASKED THAT QUESTION EARLIER AND I WILL GIVE YOU THE SAME ANSWER. I THINK YOU ARE WRONG. AS A... |
| 02:34:36 |
|
NO, SIR. VERY SIMPLE QUESTION. |
| 02:34:41 |
|
I AM EXPLAINING TO YOU WHY SOME MEMBERS -- |
| 02:34:45 |
|
LET ME REPHRASE AND PERHAPS MAKE IT A LITTLE BIT EASIER. I AM PICKING UP ON THE ANALYSIS MR. YOO MAKES... |
| 02:36:20 |
|
I CANNOT ANSWER FOR EVERYONE IN THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH. I DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY THOUGHT ABOUT. AS FOR... |
| 02:36:27 |
|
THAT IS A SIMPLE YES OR NO. JUST A SIMPLE YES OR NO. DO YOU KNOW OF ANYONE -- PROFESSOR YOO, I INCLUDE... |
| 02:36:59 |
|
I CANNOT REMEMBER ANYONE DOING THAT. |
| 02:37:03 |
|
DO YOU RECOLLECT ANYONE GOING TO THE OTHER COMMITTEES AND ASKING FOR THEIR JUDGMENTS AS TO WHAT THE... |
| 02:37:10 |
|
NO, AND I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND DOING THAT. I WOULD RECOMMEND DOING WHAT THE LAW REQUIRES, AND THAT WOULD... |
| 02:37:19 |
|
THAT IS THE PROBLEM. IF IT HAD GOTTEN TO THE REPUBLICAN CONGRESS, YOU WOULD HAVE SHARED RESPONSIBILITY.... |
| 02:38:31 |
|
YOU ARE LEAVING SOMETHING ON THE RECORD THAT I WENT TO CLEAR UP. YOU ARE MAKING IT SOUND LIKE OTHER... |
| 02:38:45 |
|
THERE ARE THINGS THAT MR. YOO ADVANCED IN HIS TESTIMONY. |
| 02:38:54 |
|
I DO NOT KNOW WHEN THE AND I AM FAIRLY CONFIDENT THAT THESE WERE DISCUSSED, BUT I AM NOT AWARE OF... |
| 02:39:13 |
|
ON THE BASIS OF HIS OBJECTION TO LET HIM ASK QUESTIONS, WHERE IT WOULD PROLONG THE HEARING, I WANTED... |
| 02:39:38 |
|
DO YOU WANT TO DO THAT NOW? |
| 02:39:40 |
|
I WANTED TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT I WAS NOT DOING IT BECAUSE HE WAS OUT OF THE ROOM. I ACTUALLY SENT... |
| 02:39:50 |
|
WITHOUT OBJECTION. |
| 02:39:53 |
|
WELL, MR. CHAIRMAN, I DO NOT WANT TO PROCEED UNLESS STAFF HAS BEEN ABLE TO COMMUNICATE -- WELL, I... |
| 02:40:13 |
|
OK. |
| 02:40:17 |
|
THIS HAS BEEN A VERY IMPORTANT HEARING, AND I AM GOING TO REQUEST BOTH WITNESSES -- I WILL EXTEND... |
| 02:41:01 |
|
YES. |
| 02:41:03 |
|
OK. AND THE DOMESTIC LEGISLATION WE ARE TALKING ABOUT WAS TO IMPLEMENT THE CONVENTION AGAINST TORTURE.... |
| 02:41:12 |
|
THAT IS CORRECT. |
| 02:41:17 |
|
AND THE WHOLE ISSUE AS TO WHAT CONSTITUTES TORTURE, WHAT TECHNIQUES ARE IMPLICATED IN THAT DEFINITION,... |
| 02:41:45 |
|
I AM SORRY. IT IS PROFESSOR YOO. |
| 02:41:52 |
|
I AM SORRY. |
| 02:41:54 |
|
IT IS LISTED IN THE BACK OF THE MEMO AS THOSE THAT VIOLATE -- NOT THIS STATUTE, BUT THE SECOND STATUE.... |
| 02:42:16 |
|
WHAT ABOUT WATERBOARDING? |
| 02:42:18 |
|
I WOULD HAVE TO KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN BY WATERBOARDING, BUT THERE IS A DESCRIPTION IN THE APPENDIX, IN... |
| 02:42:52 |
|
IT HAS BEEN REPORTED ON THREE DIFFERENT OCCASIONS, THE CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY UTILIZE WATERBOARDING,... |
| 02:43:21 |
|
WELL, SIR, I HAVE READ THE SAME PRESS REPORTS THAT YOU HAVE. |
| 02:43:26 |
|
THAT WAS MY UNDERSTANDING THAT IT WAS ACKNOWLEDGED BY THE HEAD OF THE CIA. AND YOU, MR. ADDINGTON,... |
| 02:43:43 |
|
YES, WITH A LEGAL COUNSEL AT THE CIA. |
| 02:43:45 |
|
DID THE ISSUE OF WATERBOARDING PARI, ? |
| 02:43:56 |
|
-- DID THE ISSUE OF WATERBOARDING RISARISE? |
| 02:44:05 |
|
THE CHAIRMAN, AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS THING, AS I SAID, I AM NOT QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT THIS, AND... |
| 02:44:33 |
|
I AM SURE THEY ARE WATCHING, AND I AM GLAD THEY FINALLY HAVE A CHANCE TO SEE YOU, MR. ADDINGTON, GIVEN... |
| 02:45:21 |
|
YOUR QUESTION IS -- THERE IS AN OPEN QUESTION AS TO WHETHER WATERBOARDING AS USED BY THE CIA VIOLATED... |
| 02:45:29 |
|
THAT IS WHAT I AM SAYING. IT IS AN OPEN QUESTION. |
| 02:45:33 |
|
I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE. |
| 02:45:35 |
|
SURE. |
| 02:45:37 |
|
I THINK ONE OF THE PROBLEMS THAT THE CONVENTION AGAINST TORTURE IS INTERPRETED IN DIFFERENT WAYS BY... |
| 02:46:10 |
|
THERE IS ONE ADDITIONAL MINUTE WHICH HE HAS YIELDED TO MR. DUNSTHE GENTLEMAN. |
| 02:46:27 |
|
I THINK WE CAN AGREE IT WAS AN OPEN QUESTION. IF THEY WERE USED ON AMERICAN MILITARY PERSONNEL, IT... |
| 02:46:43 |
|
I ASSUME YOU ARE STILL ASKING ME? |
| 02:46:44 |
|
YES. |
| 02:46:48 |
|
SIR, MY UNDERSTANDING OF THE TESTIMONY THAT THE O.L.C. DAYS BEFORE THE COMMITTEE IS THAT IF WE WERE... |
| 02:47:10 |
|
SO IF IT WAS USED BY AN ENEMY BECAUSE WE CONSIDERED THAT IT DID NOT CONSTITUTE TORTURE, THEN THE ENEMY... |
| 02:47:28 |
|
THE TIME HAS EXPIRED. THE WITNESS WILL ANSWER THIS QUESTION, PLEASE. |
| 02:47:34 |
|
SIR, I DO NOT KNOW IF HE WENT THAT FAR AND REACHED THAT CONCLUSION. THAT COULD BE AN INDICATION OF... |
| 02:47:43 |
|
EXCUSE ME. THE QUESTION WAS OF YOU, AND NOT OF HIM. |
| 02:47:49 |
|
I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT IT IS CLEAR WHAT THE MINISTRATIONS POSITION IS -- WHAT THE ADMINISTRATION'S... |
| 02:48:02 |
|
WOULD YOU ANSWER THE QUESTION THAT IF SOME ENEMY INTERROGATOR USED THAT TECHNIQUE ON AN AMERICAN PRISONER... |
| 02:48:12 |
|
IN MY VIEW NOW, I WOULD SAY IT WOULD DEPEND ON THE CIRCUMSTANCES. I AGREE WITH THE CONGRESSMEN THAT... |
| 02:48:27 |
|
OK. GO AHEAD. |
| 02:48:33 |
|
I THOUGHT YOU WERE CUTTING OFF. AGAIN, THERE IS AN APPENDIX IN THE BACK THAT LISTS TRYING TO DROWN... |
| 02:48:51 |
|
THANK YOU. THE TIME HAS EXPIRED. ALL TIME HAS EXPIRED. THERE HAVE BEEN A NUMBER OF UNANSWERED QUESTIONS... |
| 02:49:28 |
|
MR. CHAIRMAN, I WILL WAIT HERE AS LONG AS YOU LIKE IF YOU HAVE MORE QUESTIONS. |
| 02:49:33 |
|
WE HAVE TO TAKE UNDER ADVISEMENT THE QUESTION -- |
| 02:49:39 |
|
I DID NOT INVOKE A PRIVILEGE -- I DID NOT INVOKE ANY PRIVILEGE. |
| 02:49:47 |
|
YOU EVENT CLASSIFIED INFORMATION. |
| 02:49:49 |
|
I DID NOT DO THAT. I DID NOT INVOKE ANY PRIVILEGE. YOU ARE WELCOME TO -- |
| 02:49:58 |
|
WE WILL DETERMINE IF YOU DID, AND I DO NOT THINK YOU INVOKE ANY PRIVILEGES ACCEPTED CLASSIFIED INFORMATION,... |
| 02:50:17 |
|
IF YOU ISSUE A SUBPOENA, WE WILL GO THROUGH THIS AGAIN. |
| 02:50:21 |
|
PROFESSOR YOO. |
| 02:50:28 |
|
SUBJECT TO REASONABLE ACCOMMODATION OF SCHEDULE. -- PROFESSOR YOO? |
| 02:50:35 |
|
MR. CHAIRMAN, -- |
| 02:50:46 |
|
THE CHAIRMAN IS RECOGNIZED. |
| 02:50:50 |
|
ON BALANCE, I WOULD LIKE TO THANK ALL OF THE WITNESSES FOR COMING FORWARD TODAY. THEY, FROM THEIR... |
| 02:51:29 |
|
I THANK THE GENTLEMAN. I THINK THE WITNESSES FOR THEIR APPEARANCES -- I THINK THE WITNESSES FOR THEIR... |
NOTE: The transcript for this program was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.
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