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| TIME | SPEAKER | TEXT |
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| 00:00:12 |
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IN HIS BOOK, "THE BOTTOM BILLION," WHY THE POOREST COUNTRIES ARE FAILING AND WHAT CAN BE DONE ABOUT... |
| 00:02:48 |
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THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I'M DELIGHTED TO BE HEAR TO CONTINUE OUR CELEBRATION OF THE AWARDING OF THE LIONEL... |
| 00:04:08 |
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THANK YOU. |
| 00:04:13 |
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AND THE WINNER OF THE 2008GELBER AWARD IS "THE BOTTOM BILLION, WHY THE POORER COUNTRIES ARE FAILING... |
| 00:06:02 |
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THANK YOU VERY MUCH. |
| 00:06:04 |
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HE STARTS HIS BOOK SAYING HE GRADUATED IN 1968, THE FAMOUS YEAR IN WHICH THE WORLD WAS GOING TO BE... |
| 00:07:35 |
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UNLESS WE GET SERIOUS. THE LAST 30, 40 YEARS, THE DEVELOPMENT, OUR POLICY TOWARDS DEVELOPING COUNTRIES... |
| 00:11:00 |
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YOU'RE OF COURSE REFERRING TO THE MARSHAL PLAN, AND I ONCE REVIEWED A BOOK ABOUT THE MARSHAL PLAN,... |
| 00:12:08 |
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UNDOUBTEDLY. SO IT'S A HARDER PROBLEM, AND I THINK WE'VE OVER RELIED ON INDUSTRY AND IT ACCOUNTS FOR... |
| 00:13:03 |
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AND YOU ALSO ARGUE AGAINST NOT ONLY GOING BEYOND IDEOLOGY, BUT ALSO AGAINST WHAT YOU CALLED THE HEADLESS... |
| 00:13:15 |
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THE HEADLESS HEART IS COMPASSION WITHOUT STRATEGY. AND THAT IS A HOT OF THE NGO WORLD. I FIND THE... |
| 00:13:56 |
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IN THE BOOK, YOU ARE VERY CRITICAL OF NON-GOVERNMENTAL ORGANIZATIONS. AND SOME OF THEIR POLICY PRESCRIPTIONS.... |
| 00:14:28 |
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I DON'T THINK TO BE CRITICAL ABOUT PEOPLE WHO ARE DRAWING ATTENTION TO THE ISSUES AND I'VE HAD A LOT... |
| 00:15:41 |
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AND YOU'RE PARTICULARLY CRITICAL OF SOME NGO'S STANCE ON |
| 00:15:46 |
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YES. I THINK TRADE IS A REALLY COMPLEX AREA. IT'S THE AREA WHICH IS LEAST WELL UNDERSTOOD BY ORDINARY... |
| 00:16:55 |
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YOU HAVE A VERY GOOD EXAMPLE, A VERY TELLING EXAMPLE IN THE BOOK ABOUT THE MULTIFIBER AGREEMENT. EXPLAIN... |
| 00:17:06 |
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MULTIFIBER AGREEMENT IS DEAD AND LONG, BUT WHILE IT LASTED, -- |
| 00:17:10 |
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WHAT WAS IT? |
| 00:17:15 |
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IT GAVE QUAT QUOTAS TO COUNTRIES TO MARKET ACCESS TO OUR COUNTRIES AND THEY GOT A QUOTA. THE REASON... |
| 00:17:21 |
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THE WOULD BOTTOM IS THE VOLUME OF EXPORTS THAT IT WOULD ALLOW TO ENTER EUROPE WITHOUT TARIFFS. |
| 00:17:29 |
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ABSOLUTELY. |
| 00:17:31 |
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OR WITH VERY LOW TARIFFS. |
| 00:17:32 |
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ABSOLUTELY. AND THE REASON WE INTRODUCED THIS SCHEME WAS NOT TO HELP THEM, TESTIFIES TO PROTECT OUR... |
| 00:19:12 |
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WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THOSE THAT SAY THAT HAS BEEN TRIED AND FAILED. THOSE WHO SAID YES, IN ORDER FOR... |
| 00:19:44 |
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AND THAT'S BECAUSE THEY WERE PROTECTED IN THE DOMESTIC MARKET IN AFRICA. THE DOMESTIC MARKET IN AFRICA... |
| 00:21:04 |
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DO YOU HAVE EXAMPLES OF INDUSTRIES OR IN AFRICA THAT CAN COMPETE IN WORLD CLASS MANUFACTURING AGAINST... |
| 00:21:14 |
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YES. WE DO. WE HAVE PRACTICAL EXAMPLES AND WE DO BECAUSE AMERICA HAS ACTUALLY GOT A SCHEME THAT GIVES... |
| 00:21:28 |
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WHAT DOES IT DO? |
| 00:21:30 |
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IT GIVES AFRICA PRIVILEGED ACCESS IF GARMENTS, ACTUALLY, A RANGE OF PRODUCTS, BUT THERE'S ONLY ONE... |
| 00:23:05 |
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IN ONE OF YOUR EXAMPLES, YOU'RE VERY CRITICAL OF SOME OF THE NGO'S THAT HAVE QUESTIONS ON GROWTH,... |
| 00:23:27 |
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YES. THE FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM OF THE BOTTOM BILLION HAS BEEN A FAILURE OF THEIR ECONOMIST TO GROW.... |
| 00:26:28 |
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I'M NOT IN THE MIDDLE. I'M NOT A COMPROMISE BETWEEN. AND FIRST OF ALL, LET ME MAKE ONE THING CLEAR,... |
| 00:28:20 |
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YOU WOULD SAY IT'S A CARICATURE OF PIGS HIS POSITION. HE ARGUES FOR MORE MONEY. |
| 00:28:26 |
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ABSOLUTELY. I KNOW JEFF WELL. FOR EXAMPLE, JUST TODAY, WE'VE BEEN EXCHANGING E-MAILS ABOUT THE NEED... |
| 00:28:37 |
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WHAT WOULD BE YOUR CRITICISM OF HIS POSITION? |
| 00:28:41 |
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I THINK HE OVEREMPHASIZES AID RELATIVE TO OTHER THINGS. AND I THINK HE UNDERPLAYS. |
| 00:28:45 |
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AID MEANING MONEY? |
| 00:28:49 |
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YES, AND HE UNDERPLAYS THE ISSUES OF GOVERNANCE, UNDERSTANDABLY SO, BUT I THINK HE UNDERPLAYS THE... |
| 00:29:20 |
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DESCRIBE THIS IS BILL EASTERLY, AN ECONOMIST THAT IS NOW AT BROOKINGS. HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE IN A... |
| 00:29:28 |
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I WOULD SAY HIS MAIN ARGUMENT IS ABOUT THE LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY OF THE DONOR SYSTEM, ALL RIGHT?... |
| 00:29:45 |
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AND HE USES NUMBERS TO SHOW RESULTS, YOU KNOW, HE'S VERY CRITICAL OF THE OUTCOMES OF THESE EFFORTS.... |
| 00:29:51 |
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SURE, SURE. BUT THE -- BUT AT THE HEART OF HIS ARGUMENT IS ABOUT ACCOUNTABILITY, AND THAT HEARTLAND,... |
| 00:32:36 |
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| 00:32:38 |
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WHY IS IT MISPLACED IF THE RESULTS -- AGAIN, HE SAYS THAT WHAT HAPPENS IS IS THAT YOU LOOK AT THE... |
| 00:32:55 |
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BUT OF COURSE THESE PEOPLE DON'T CONTROL THE OUTCOMES. THE OUTCOMES ARE A JOINT -- FIRST OF ALL, AID... |
| 00:34:55 |
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AND THEN WE GET TO THE PAUL COLLIER SCHOOL OF THOUGHT, THAT TALKS ABOUT THE FOUR TRACKS. AND CONFLICT,... |
| 00:36:00 |
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IF WE GO BACK 30, 40 YEARS, ONE OF THE MOST MISGOVERNED COUNTRIES TT WORLD WAS CHINA, BUT IT WAS BIG... |
| 00:36:50 |
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ONE OF YOUR TRACKS LEADS YOU TO ANOTHER OF YOUR VERY CONTROVERSIAL PRESCRIPTION ITS, WHICH IS MILITARY... |
| 00:37:36 |
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NO, I DON'T SAY COUNTRIES SHOULD INVADE. I THINK OUR SECURITY POLICY IS LURCHED CRAZILY BETWEEN EXTREMES.... |
| 00:37:52 |
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YOU HAVE A VERY GOOD EXAMPLE ABOUT SOMALIA IN THE BOOK. TALK ABOUT THAT. THE MA REPUBLICANS THAT WERE... |
| 00:37:59 |
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THEATER. WHICH WAS TERRIBLE. |
| 00:38:01 |
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TALK ABOUT THAT. |
| 00:38:05 |
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AFTER -- BECAUSE OF THOSE 18 DEATHS, AMERICA PULLED OUT. NOW, GIVEN WHAT'S HAPPENED IN THE LAST FOUR... |
| 00:38:45 |
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AND DARFUR IS ANOTHER GOOD EXAMPLE. |
| 00:38:46 |
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YES. YES. BUT I THINK -- |
| 00:38:49 |
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IT SHEDS GREAT LIGHT ON YOUR POINT. |
| 00:38:52 |
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I THINK ACTUALLY THE BEST EXAMPLES, THINGS LIKE SIERRA LEONE, WHERE ANY TINY MILITARY PRESENCE HAS... |
| 00:39:32 |
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I PROMISE THAT I WOULD NOT DOMINATE THE CONVERSATION AND INVITE THE VERY INTERESTING AUDIENCE WE HAVE... |
| 00:39:51 |
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MICHAEL MARSHAL, I'M WITH UPI. YOU OUTLINE FOUR AREAS, TRADE SECURITY AND GOVERNMENT AND THE FIRST... |
| 00:40:12 |
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YES, I'D LOVE TO. IT'S THE ONE THAT SOUNDS LIKE MOTHERHOOD AND APPLE PIE AND NOT VERY EFFECTIVE AND... |
| 00:43:10 |
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THANK YOU. YES? |
| 00:43:16 |
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I WORK FOR CARNEGIE AND WE DO STUDIES ON DEVELOPMENT IN LATIN MRK. MY QUESTION IS, I THINK THERE IS... |
| 00:44:31 |
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IT SEEMS UNLIKELY. IN THE CASE OF HAITI, DOESN'T IT? WHERE I THINK THE TRADE MARKET ACCESS WOULD MAKE... |
| 00:47:59 |
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TALKING ABOUT EDUCATION AND HEALTH? |
| 00:48:01 |
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EDUCATION, HEALTH, YES. ALL THE BASIC SERVICES. AND THERE'S A WHOLE NEW SPECTRUM OF SOCIAL ENTREPRENEURSHIP... |
| 00:48:53 |
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DO YOU HAVE AN EXAMPLE IN MIND THAT IS ACTUALLY WORKING? |
| 00:48:56 |
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NO. NO. I'VE NOT SEEN ONE OF THESE IN PRACTICE, BECAUSE THE DONORS ARE VERY SCARED OF MOVING AWAY... |
| 00:49:29 |
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AS YOU KNOW, THE WORLD OF DEVELOPMENT AND THINKING, IT'S VERY PRONE TO FASHION, TO FADS, PEOPLE GET... |
| 00:50:15 |
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NO. BUT I -- AS THE ROYAL ROAD TO DEVELOPMENT, I'M PRETTY SKEPTICAL. IN A FEW SENSES. ONE IS THAT... |
| 00:50:59 |
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WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS THAT MICROCREDITS VERY OFTEN GO TO INDIVIDUALS THAT DON'T HAVE THE BUSINESS --... |
| 00:51:03 |
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EXACTLY. SO WE WANT TO HARNESS THAT WITH BUSINESS EXPERTISE. |
| 00:51:07 |
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RATHER YOU HAVE THE MONEY GO TO ORGANIZATIONS AND INDIVIDUALS THAT HAVE -- |
| 00:51:12 |
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THAT'S RIGHT. |
| 00:51:14 |
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-- A BUSINESS MODEL THAT YOU SUSTAIN. |
| 00:51:16 |
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BECAUSE OFTEN WHAT IS MISSING IS THE BUSINESS SKILLS RATHER THAN THE MONEY. A SECOND CRITICISM, AND... |
| 00:53:25 |
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ON THE WHOLE I SUPPORT IT BUT IT DOES DEPEND UPON THE PROCESS WHICH GIVES THE RIGHTS BEING SOUND.... |
| 00:54:55 |
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THE FINAL. I WANTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT IS C. K. BALART, THE NOTION THERE IS A GOAL AT THE BOTTOM OF... |
| 00:55:19 |
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AGAIN, THERE'S QUITE A LOT OF TRUTH IN THAT THAT BRANDS VERY MUCH WHAT THORNY BECAUSE IT BRANDS ARE... |
| 00:56:52 |
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FOR QUESTIONS I WILL BE CALLING THE CONVERSATION. |
| 00:56:59 |
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HOW DO SEE THE WORLD OF CHINA AND AFRICA, DO CHINESE INVESTMENTS SECURED DEFINITION OF A PASSIONATE... |
| 00:57:09 |
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LET ME PARAPHRASE THE QUESTION BURTON A BIT OF OF THE CAMERA AND MICROPHONE SPURRED THE QUESTION IS,... |
| 00:57:28 |
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OBVIOUSLY CHINA IS IN A CHARITY. IT'S GOT ITS OWN INTERESTS. THE INTRODUCTION OF CHINA INTO AFRICA... |
| 00:59:49 |
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ARE YOU WRITING ANOTHER BOOK? |
| 00:59:52 |
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I HAVE WRITTEN ANOTHER BOOK. IT WILL BE OUT AROUND FEBRUARY AND IT IS ABOUT, THROUGH 2009, THE STRUGGLE... |
| 01:01:16 |
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YOU'VE BEEN WATCHING A DISCUSSION ON PAUL COLLIER BUT "THE BOTTOM BILLION". |
NOTE: The transcript for this program was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.
