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| TIME | SPEAKER | TEXT |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:33 |
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THIS IS C-SPAN'S "AMERICA AND THE COURTS." MICHAEL NEW DELL SEEKS TO HAVE "AND DESIGNED" MOVE FROM... |
| 00:01:11 |
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AND HILLAH ON BEHALF OF THE UNITED STATES DID WE WOULD LIKE TO COLLECTIVELY RESERVE SIX MINUTES FOR... |
| 00:01:24 |
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WHOM THERE ARE GOING TO TAKE EIGHT MINUTES EACH? |
| 00:01:26 |
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THAT IS CORRECT. THE VOLUNTARY PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE DOES NOT BALL -- BY LATE. I WOULD LIKE TO AGAIN BY... |
| 00:06:31 |
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YOU HAVE GONE WITHOUT A QUESTION SO FAR. WHAT ARE YOU GET TO THE OTHER POINT IN YOUR ARGUMENT. |
| 00:06:41 |
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ASSUMING YOU ARE CORRECT, AND IT IS NOT BINDING, THE BELIEVE THAT HAS FIRST CHOICE OF VALUE? |
| 00:06:48 |
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I DO NOT THINK IT DOES, JUDGE REINHARDT. THAT BRINGS ME TO THE MERITS OF THE PRIOR DECISION. THE... |
| 00:07:07 |
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AS A MATTER OF GENERAL PRINCIPLE AND LEGAL DOCTRINE, IF AN OPINION IS VACATED, ON THE GROUNDS THAT... |
| 00:07:23 |
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THE VACATED OPINION? |
| 00:07:27 |
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I AM ASSUMING IT IS NOT BINDING. |
| 00:07:30 |
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CORRECT, IT COULD BE CONSULTED FOR WHAT EVERY PERSUASIVE VALUE THAT IT HAS OR DOES NOT HAVE JUST AS... |
| 00:07:51 |
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VACATED OPINIONS HAVE ZERO PRESIDENTIAL VALUE. -- PRECEDENTIAL VALUE I THINK THAT WOULD BE AKIN TO... |
| 00:09:05 |
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LET ME JUST WHEN YOU ARE ABOUT IT -- LET ME JUST WARN YOU, YOU ARE ABOUT TO ENCROACH ON YOUR COLLEAGUES... |
| 00:09:15 |
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LET ME JUST SAY THAT STUDENTS IN CIVICS CLASS COULD BE ENCOURAGED THE RECITATION OF THE SCENE OF THE... |
| 00:10:06 |
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ISN'T ONE OF THE ISSUES ONE OF COERCION? CHILDREN WHO FEEL COERCED TO RECITE "UNDERDONE?" THE THE... |
| 00:10:36 |
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WHAT, AND LEE, IS THE USE OF A ARADHANA -- |
| 00:10:49 |
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IF YOU THINK OF IT, LEE DOES NOT HAVE ANY BEARING ON THE ISSUE OF WHAT IS OR IS NOT A PRAYER. IT HAS... |
| 00:11:24 |
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IT HAS BEEN VALIDATED BY 200 YEARS OF UNBROKEN TRADITION. |
| 00:11:31 |
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SO LEE AS A GRADUATION CEREMONY IS AN IMPORTANT EVENT TO STUDENTS. BUT ARE THE SAME PERIOD ABSOLUTELY.... |
| 00:12:30 |
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AT THE END OF THE INDICATION, THE RABBI IS GIVING THANKS TO GOD. -- AT THE END OF THE INVOCATION,... |
| 00:13:09 |
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I WILL TRY YOUR NEXT CO- COUNSEL ON THIS. |
| 00:13:11 |
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THANK YOU. |
| 00:13:17 |
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GOOD MORNING, YOUR HONOR. IT MAY IT PLEASE THE COURT. MY NAME IS TERRANCE CASSIDY. THIS MORNING, WE... |
| 00:14:32 |
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IN GENERAL, WHEN A DECISION IS VACATED FOR LACK OF STANDING, IT HAS NO VALUE? |
| 00:14:37 |
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CORRECT, YOUR HONOR. IT BECOMES A NULLITY. |
| 00:14:49 |
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ITH RESPECT TO ALLOWING DAILY RECITATION OF THE PLEDGE, WE RESPECTFULLY SUBMIT THAT WHILE THERE IS... |
| 00:15:10 |
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LET ME JUST ASK YOU A QUESTION. EVEN IF WE ASSUME THAT RECITING THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE IS A PATRIOTIC... |
| 00:15:29 |
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WHILE THERE IS SOME RELIGIOUS CONTENT AND THE PLEDGE, WE HAVE TO TAKE THE OVERALL CONTEXT. THAT IS... |
| 00:16:38 |
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WOULD IT BE ANY LESS PATRIOTIC KEYWORDS UNDERGONE WERE REMOVED? |
| 00:16:43 |
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AND NOT NECESSARILY. WE WOULD BE LEAVING OUT AN IMPORTANT ELEMENT OF OUR FOUNDING FATHERS, AND THAT... |
| 00:17:51 |
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WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A MORE MODERNIZED VERSION OF THE PLEDGE, WHICH WE BELIEVE, OVER THE PAST 50 YEARS,... |
| 00:18:45 |
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I AM NOT QUITE SURE IF I UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT IS. IF YOU DID NOT HAVE UNDERGONE IN THERE, YOU WOULD... |
| 00:19:15 |
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I SUPPOSE I WOULD ANSWER IT IS SLIGHT. EXPOSURE TO THE FACT THAT GOD HAS BEEN RECOGNIZED AS PART OF... |
| 00:19:54 |
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IS A COERCIVE IF YOU'RE REQUIRED TO STAND THERE AND BEAT SILENT AND THE SINGLED OUT AS AN ATHEIST.... |
| 00:20:05 |
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I THINK NOT. WE KNOW NOW FROM THE ELK GROVE DECISION THAT THIS IS A PATRIOTIC EXERCISE AND NOT A CAREER.... |
| 00:20:21 |
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HOW DO WE KNOW THAT? |
| 00:20:28 |
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JUSTICE STEVENS -- YOU TELL US THAT THERE IS NO STANDING, THAT IT DOES NOT MEAN ANYTHING. |
| 00:20:38 |
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PERHAPS FOR LOWER COURTS -- |
| 00:20:41 |
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IT THERE IS NO STANDING, IS IT POSSIBLE THAT THEY ANNOUNCED A RULE OF LAW WHEN THERE WAS NO STANDING... |
| 00:20:50 |
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I BELIEVE THAT THEY CAN WHEN THEY ANNOUNCE WHAT THEY BELIEVE IS IMPORTANT TO THE DECISION OF THE CASE.... |
| 00:20:57 |
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HUCKABEE IMPORTANT TO THE QUESTION IN STANDING? |
| 00:20:59 |
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MAYBE THIS PERSUASIVE. |
| 00:21:04 |
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I BELIEVE IT IS PERSUASIVE BUT THIS COURT -- BASED ON COUNTING ANALYSIS BY THE SEVENTH CIRCUIT IN... |
| 00:22:08 |
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MAY IT PLEASE THE COURT. |
| 00:22:14 |
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IS USUALLY MINUTES, THE WILL BE ONE MINUTE LEFT. -- IF YOU USE YOUR FULL EIGHT MINUTES, THERE WILL... |
| 00:22:31 |
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WHAT DOES NOT ADD TO THE PATRIOTIC EXERCISES, AND SO FORTH. THERE IS A LONG ANSWER TO A SHORT QUESTION.... |
| 00:24:39 |
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HE WAS DESCRIBED AS AN IGNOBLE ESSENCE. |
| 00:24:42 |
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WAS THAT A RELIGIOUS STORY NONRELIGIOUS GOT. NONRELIGIOU-- NONRELIGIOUS GUIOD. |
| 00:25:01 |
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THE WANT TO EMBARK FOR COLIFORM THE PHILOSOPHERS GONE BECAUSE HE CAN BE ARGUED TO BE KNOWN BY REASON... |
| 00:25:42 |
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GOD IS NOT A RELIGIOUS FIGURE? |
| 00:25:44 |
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OF THE PHILOSOPHERS GOT WAS ALL THERE WAS. MAY 12 OF 1776, BEFORE THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE,... |
| 00:26:33 |
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WHAT IS A PHILOSOPHERS' GUY? -- PHILOSOPHERS' GOD? NOTHING THAT YOU WANT A GOD TO BE. THERE ARE NO... |
| 00:27:10 |
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THE CREATOR? WHAT IS A CREATOR? THE CREATOR CREATED EVERYTHING. BY THE SHAPE OF CREATION, WE CAN ... |
| 00:27:34 |
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IF THE WORLD JUST EVOLVED NATURALLY, AND BECAME FROM FISH, IT JUST HAPPENED TO THE FORCES OF SCIENCE... |
| 00:27:58 |
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THE PHILOSOPHERS GOT WOULD BE ALIVE AND WELL AND LIVING IN REVOLUTION. |
| 00:28:03 |
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YOU'RE SAYING THAT BECAUSE THE UNIVERSE EXISTS, SOMETHING CAUSE IT TO EXIST. YOU CAN GIVE THAT THE... |
| 00:28:26 |
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THE PLANTSETS EXPLODED, GASES CAME, THE EARTH EVOLVED FROM ALL THESE GASES, AND THEN WE WENT THROUGH... |
| 00:28:49 |
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YOUR HONOR, HOWEVER ANY INDIVIDUAL BELIEVES ABOUT THE PHILOSOPHERS GOT, THE FACT REMAINS OF THE PHILOSOPHERS... |
| 00:29:10 |
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SHIRT. -- MAY ASK YOU A QUESTION? |
| 00:29:16 |
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SURE. DOES A REASONABLE OBJECTIVE OBSERVER HAVE AMBIGUOUS VIEW OF THE USE OF THE LORD GOD REFER TO... |
| 00:29:57 |
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IT IS DEEPLY STEEPED IN THE SUPREME COURT. |
| 00:30:07 |
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A SEVEN YEAR-OLD CHILD IS NOT AN OBJECTIVE OBSERVER. THE SEVEN MURALS CHILD PENCE ARE. -- THE SEVEN... |
| 00:31:21 |
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WHEN YOU PUT "UNDER GOD" IN A PLEDGE, WHAT WAS SAID ON THE FLOOR WAS THAT WE WERE FACING A GODLESS... |
| 00:33:18 |
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THANK YOU. |
| 00:33:31 |
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THE SUPREME COURT STATED THAT THE CONSTITUTIONAL FREEDOMS ARE NOWHERE MORE VITAL THAN THE COMMUNITY... |
| 00:34:06 |
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WE HAVE ONE REMAINING PLANTER. THE PARENTS AFFIDAVIT, AS I REMEMBER IT, WAS THAT THE CHILD WAS BEING... |
| 00:35:23 |
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I GUESS THAT HIS BOARD DRESS THE SHIP ON MY PART. -- I GUESS THAT WAS A BAD DRAFTSMANSHIP ON MY PART.... |
| 00:35:41 |
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COMPULSION IS THAT YOU HAVE TO SAY THE PLEDGE OR YOU GET FINED $50. COERCION IS IS WHAT OCCURS IN... |
| 00:36:10 |
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OF THE OTHERS SAID THIS WAS NOT A COERCIVE. THE PLEDGE POLICY -- TO JUSTICE THOMAS ALSO STATED THAT... |
| 00:36:39 |
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WHAT ABOUT OAK GROVE AND AT LUNCHLYNCH. THE CITY DOES NOT VIOLATE THE ESTABLISHMENT CLAUSE IN BOTH... |
| 00:36:52 |
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OF THE SUPREME COURT DID NOT RULE ON IT IN ELK GROVE. IN LYNCH, THEY DID NOT HAVE ANY PORTION WHATSOEVER.... |
| 00:37:05 |
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YOU HAVE A LITTLE FOURTH GRADER AND EVERYONE ELSE SAYS IT AND HE DOESN'T WANT TO SAY IT. WE HAVE THE... |
| 00:37:52 |
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I BELIEVE THERE WAS A REFERENCE IN THE ELK GROVE CASE IN WHICH THERE IS SOCIAL SCIENCE DATA THAT SHOWS... |
| 00:38:33 |
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FIRST OF ALL, THERE WERE SPECIFIC ALLEGATIONS -- ACTUALLY, PROOF, OF THE HARASSMENT OF CHILDREN BECAUSE... |
| 00:39:03 |
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BUT THE GOVERNMENT HAS SAID THAT THERE IS A STIGMATIC INJURY THAT CAN BE AFFECTED. AS A MATTER OF... |
| 00:39:21 |
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BUT THE HARM IS BY THE STUDENT. |
| 00:39:27 |
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HAT IS A CAUSAL CONCLUSION DRAWN BY THE EVIDENCE. |
| 00:39:32 |
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IS THERE ANY QUESTION AT THIS POINT IN OUR HISTORY THAT THE GRADUATING STUDENTS WERE HARMED BY HAVING... |
| 00:40:21 |
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I AGREE, SIR. |
| 00:40:27 |
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THAT IS CALLED A LIFELINE. |
| 00:40:35 |
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AS FAR AS A PHILOSOPHY THAT IS BEFORE ME, CONCEPTS CONCERNING GOD DO NOT SHARE THAT SIMPLY BECAUSE... |
| 00:41:23 |
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WHEN YOU START MENTIONING STATISTICS, MY MIND GOES TO STATISTICS. WHAT IS THE LINEUP OF MENTIONS ... |
| 00:41:45 |
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I PROBABLY HAVE RUN THAT IN THE PAST. |
| 00:41:49 |
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I THINK IT IS 14 TO NOTHING. |
| 00:41:54 |
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THEY SAY THAT IF YOU DO WHAT WE SAVE, THEN THE PLEDGE WOULD BE UNCONSTITUTIONAL. |
| 00:41:58 |
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AND NOT NECESSARILY. TALKING ABOUT THE CONTEXT OF THE CASES, THEY FOUND THE PLEDGE TO BE CONSTITUTIONALLY... |
| 00:42:57 |
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WHEN THE JUSTICE REFERRED TO THE PLEDGE, HE SAID THIS IS A DICTUM ABOUT DICICTA. HE SAID THAT WHILE... |
| 00:45:08 |
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CAN YOU GIVE ME THE NAMES OF THE CASES THAT SAID THAT THE ARGUMENT OF YOUR COMMENT ABOUT THE PHILOSOPHICAL... |
| 00:45:21 |
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I'M SORRY? |
| 00:45:28 |
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YOU SAID THERE WERE CASES WHERE THEY SAID THERE WAS NOT A SCIENTIFIC OR PHILOSOPHICAL. |
| 00:45:34 |
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I MISS THAT, I AM SORRY. I DO NOT KNOW OF ANY. ALL I KNOW IS THE OPPOSITE THAT GOD IS GOD. WE CONTINUE... |
| 00:46:24 |
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SHE WAS ALONE ON A DECISION. THE GOVERNING EVERYTHING SHE SAID BEFORE THAT. SHE SAID THAT WHEN GOVERNMENT... |
| 00:47:30 |
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THAT WAS JUSTICE BRENNAN. |
| 00:47:36 |
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JUSTICE BRENNAN SAID THAT, " WHILE I'LL REMAIN UNCERTAIN, HE " HE WAS REFERRING TO SOMETHING ELSE.... |
| 00:48:21 |
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YOU MENTIONED THAT JUSTICE O'CONNOR WAS NO LONGER ON THE COURT, NOR IS JUSTICE BRENNAN OR BLACK. ... |
| 00:48:36 |
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WHEN THIS GETS BACK TO THE SUPREME COURT, BUT IN VIEW MAY NOT BE UPHELD. |
| 00:48:42 |
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WE CAN'T DISCOUNT WHAT THEY SAID IF IT WERE AN OPINION OF THE COURT. |
| 00:48:50 |
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YES. |
| 00:48:59 |
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THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN BRIEFED. THEY HAVE NEVER HEARD THE ARGUMENTS. I THINK THERE ARE DEFINITELY FOUR... |
| 00:49:17 |
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I WOULDN'T PAY MUCH ATTENTION TO WHAT THEY SAID. |
| 00:49:21 |
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HE SAID THAT OFTEN THERE ARE CONFLICTING FREEDOMS. I AGREE WITH THAT 100%. THERE IS ONE GROUP THAT... |
| 00:50:25 |
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THANK YOU MR. NEWDOW. |
| 00:50:29 |
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WITH RESPECT TO THE LINEUP, WE HAVE THE SUPREME COURT'S STATEMENT THAT EVEN IN THE SCHOOL CONTEXT,... |
| 00:52:40 |
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YOU ARE SAYING WE SHOULD PREDICT WHAT THE SUPREME COURT IS ONE TO DO WAS TO MARQUIS I AM SAYING YOU... |
| 00:52:55 |
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I AM SAYING YOU SHOULD LOOK AT THE SENDISSIDENTS. IN LYNCH, THE COURT APPLIED THE LEMON TEST, AND... |
| 00:54:05 |
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THANK YOU. |
| 00:54:10 |
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THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR, I WILL MAKE THIS VERY BRIEF. THE ISSUE BEFORE THIS COURT IS WHETHER THE SCHOOL... |
| 00:55:06 |
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WHY YOU THINK THIS IS TEACHING PATRIOTISM? WHY DO CHILDREN HAVE TO MAKE THEIR OWN LIVES. THE ONE... |
| 00:55:33 |
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THERE PLEDGING TO THE FLY. -- TO THE FLAG. |
| 00:55:43 |
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THEY SPECIFICALLY PUT "UNDER GOD" IN THERE SO THAT THESE STUDENTS WOULD SAY "UNDER GOD." WEST THE... |
| 00:56:39 |
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THANK YOU. |
| 00:56:53 |
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OU HAVE A LITTLE OVER A MINUTE. BUT HOUSE OR TO SEND HIM A RED LIGHT WAS ON. |
| 00:57:21 |
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BIS IS THE GUT OFTHIS INDEED HE IS THE GUN OF THE PRESIDENT. SAYING ONE NATION UNDER GOD IS JUST... |
| 00:57:49 |
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ARE YOU SAYING THAT THE CONCEPT IS BASED ON NATURAL RIGHTS? |
| 00:57:55 |
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HE DID NOT HAVE A NATURAL RIGHTS ARE HUMAN WITHOUT A PHILOSOPHER GOT. -- PHILOSOPHERS' GOD. THEY ARE... |
| 00:58:37 |
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THANK YOU. THE COURT WILL TAKE A BRIEF RECESS BEFORE THE NEXT CASE. |
| 00:58:51 |
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A LOWER COURT RULED FOR MICHAEL NEWDOW. THE MATT CIRCUIT COURT OF APPEALS DOES NOT YET MADE A RULING.... |
NOTE: The transcript for this program was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.
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