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| TIME | SPEAKER | TEXT |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:05 |
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Good morning, everyone. The committee is very privileged to have before us this morning Secretary... |
| 00:01:38 |
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We’re scheduled, Senator Warner, to leave the Capitol at 11 o’clock if we can. |
| 00:01:45 |
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We’ll try our best to accommodate that schedule, we’ll start out with say a 3-minute question... |
| 00:03:03 |
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Mr. Chairman, I join you first in thanking the cochairs of the Iraq Study Group. We thank the... |
| 00:05:53 |
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Thank you, Senator Levin. Gentlemen, we’ll now receive your opening statements. STATEMENT... |
| 00:05:58 |
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Senator Warner, if it’s okay with the committee, I have an opening statement. I think my co-chairman,... |
| 00:06:11 |
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That’s fine. |
| 00:06:11 |
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I think we should say, and Lee will probably have something to add to this, that we note your... |
| 00:06:54 |
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Senator Warner, we are mindful of the fact that at the creation of the Iraq Study Group you... |
| 00:08:28 |
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Thank you very much. Thank you. I will proceed now with 2 or 3 minutes. First, Congressman Hamilton,... |
| 00:09:13 |
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I thank the Senator for his question. We are indeed impressed with the necessity of having a... |
| 00:11:28 |
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I thank you for that. To take off on your question on Congress, Congress having really been... |
| 00:12:06 |
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I certainly do, and I think Congress is quite capable of doing that. I do have some questions... |
| 00:12:58 |
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Excuse me. My time is running out. I think I concur generally with that. I used the word deliberately... |
| 00:13:10 |
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That’s correct. VerDate 0ct 09 2002 09:55 Jun 25, 2007 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00011 Fmt 6633... |
| 00:13:12 |
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But you concur generally that Congress would be helpful to look at it once before, likely through... |
| 00:13:21 |
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Yes, I do, Senator. But let me reinforce what Mr. Hamilton has just said on two points. Bipartisanship... |
| 00:14:16 |
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I thank the witnesses. I just simply close with this observation: But the President under the... |
| 00:14:25 |
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That is correct. |
| 00:14:30 |
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Senator Levin. |
| 00:14:30 |
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Thank you. I agree with both of your comments about the need for a comprehensive approach.... |
| 00:14:46 |
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We took a look at this over a period of 9 months, Senator, and the principal recommendations... |
| 00:15:33 |
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Thank you. Your report says that American military forces cannot stop the violence or even contain... |
| 00:16:34 |
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One of the things we kept asking ourselves repeatedly through our discussions was what kind... |
| 00:20:17 |
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Thank you. |
| 00:20:17 |
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At the same time, Senator Levin, I think it’s fair to say, and I know Lee would agree with this,... |
| 00:21:16 |
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Thank you. I wish to advise the committee that the vote will be at 10:45. Consequently,... |
| 00:21:30 |
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I want to thank the panel and especially our two leaders for the outstanding work and effort... |
| 00:24:36 |
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Thank you, Senator. Let me say one or two things, and I know Lee will have some comments as... |
| 00:26:17 |
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Senator McCain, that relates to the risk with embedded American forces with Iraqi forces. You’re... |
| 00:28:57 |
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Thank you, Senator. |
| 00:28:58 |
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Senator McCain, may I just add to what Lee has said? We’re not only increasing fivefold the... |
| 00:30:04 |
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I thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just would like to say it should alarm us—and it’s out of the scope... |
| 00:30:36 |
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Thank you, Senator McCain. I hope in the course of your dialogue here today you can touch once... |
| 00:31:06 |
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Senator Warner, just one more thing with reference to Senator McCain’s very, very valid point.... |
| 00:31:22 |
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Thank you. Senator Byrd. |
| 00:31:26 |
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Time does not permit me to adequately express my respect for both of you gentlemen, and my thanks... |
| 00:33:43 |
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Senator, we really did not express a view on that. One of the rules we followed pretty closely... |
| 00:34:35 |
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Secretary Baker? |
| 00:34:36 |
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I would agree with that, Senator Byrd. I haven’t studied it and we did not study it as a part... |
| 00:34:49 |
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I think you’re exactly right and were exactly right, but I ask the question again: Isn’t it... |
| 00:35:24 |
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Senator, I think if such a resolution were in the form and supported strongly, which would reinforce... |
| 00:36:03 |
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That’s a very helpful response. |
| 00:36:06 |
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Thank you, Mr. Byrd. |
| 00:36:08 |
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Might I just elicit a response from Secretary Baker? |
| 00:36:09 |
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Yes. |
| 00:36:13 |
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I wouldn’t disagree with my co-chairman. He’s the legislative expert, Senator. I’m an executive... |
| 00:36:31 |
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Thank you very much. |
| 00:36:32 |
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Good answer. Thank you both. |
| 00:36:33 |
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Reluctantly. Reluctantly, Senator, reluctantly. [Laughter.] |
| 00:36:39 |
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I raised a similar question to that about 6 months ago in the context of one of these hearings. Senator... |
| 00:36:45 |
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Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First of all, I can’t think of any two people better equipped to handle... |
| 00:38:37 |
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On budgeting, Senator—and Lee’s the one to answer this question, but on budgeting we have a... |
| 00:38:45 |
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I know you do. |
| 00:38:48 |
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We say the costs for the war should be included in the President’s annual budget request starting... |
| 00:38:54 |
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Yes, sir, I understand that. I’m talking about amounts, so we can get an idea of what that’s... |
| 00:39:54 |
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That’s totally consistent, Senator, with everything we heard. I think we used the word ‘‘support.’’... |
| 00:40:42 |
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Thank you very much for your service. |
| 00:40:44 |
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Senator Lieberman. |
| 00:40:46 |
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Thank you. Thanks to both of you for the contribution that you’ve made to the decisions... |
| 00:43:54 |
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Develop nukes? |
| 00:43:55 |
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Exactly. |
| 00:43:56 |
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Yes. Senator, thank you. That’s a very good question and let me answer it this way. First of... |
| 00:45:54 |
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Yes, I agree with that. So I appreciate your answer. There’s obviously a lot to gain from getting... |
| 00:46:15 |
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We say it in the report, Senator. It’s in the report. We say we’ve approached them; based on... |
| 00:46:33 |
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Thank you. |
| 00:46:34 |
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Senator Collins. |
| 00:46:36 |
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Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First let me echo the thanks of my colleagues on this committee for... |
| 00:49:04 |
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We’re not at all satisfied with the present exposure of American forces and we want to make... |
| 00:50:30 |
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Combat brigades, Senator, dedicated to force protection. |
| 00:50:41 |
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It just seems to me that you’re going to have to have a substantial combat presence in order... |
| 00:50:52 |
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I think you will have to have substantial capabilities to protect those advisers, and obviously... |
| 00:51:24 |
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The Pentagon, of course, is coming up with its own study here in connection with where we go... |
| 00:51:46 |
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Thank you. |
| 00:51:48 |
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Thank you very much, Senator. It’s an excellent question. Senator Reed. |
| 00:51:51 |
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Thank you very much, gentlemen, for your extraordinary work and the work of your colleagues. This... |
| 00:52:20 |
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In Baghdad? |
| 00:52:21 |
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In Baghdad, if that was the only area we decided to be proactive. |
| 00:52:27 |
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I think we’re impressed that the operation in Baghdad has not gone well and has not met our... |
| 00:53:04 |
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General Corelli’s Reserves are about 20,000 in Kuwait and Germany, as I understand it. |
| 00:53:12 |
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Now, I know you’ve talked to the commanders a lot, but it’s not crystal clear to me that the... |
| 00:53:22 |
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My impression is that if you’re going to take this road, the force has to be substantial in... |
| 00:54:11 |
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That’s right. |
| 00:54:12 |
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So that begs the other question of, let’s assume we’re going to plus-up our forces in Baghdad,... |
| 00:54:46 |
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I think you make a very good point. I don’t want to understate this, but the clearing aspect... |
| 00:55:41 |
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Thank you, Senator, very much. |
| 00:55:42 |
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Thank you. |
| 00:55:43 |
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Senator Chambliss. |
| 00:55:44 |
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Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Gentlemen, thank you once again for your strong leadership and your... |
| 00:57:09 |
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Senator, the two countries, in our report, we approach them differently. With respect to Iran,... |
| 00:58:44 |
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Senator Nelson, I inform my colleagues the vote has started. |
| 00:58:50 |
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Excuse me. |
| 00:58:51 |
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Please go ahead. |
| 00:58:52 |
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We’ve had more than a little pushback on the Syrian and Iranian question because it’s a tough... |
| 01:01:02 |
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Secretary Baker, do you want to add? |
| 01:01:03 |
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I want to just direct your attention if I could, Senator Chambliss, to the bottom of page 56,... |
| 01:02:30 |
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Thank you very much, gentlemen. I note the vote is on, but we will be able to meet your deadline and... |
| 01:02:40 |
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Thank you, and thank you to both of you. Your success in government has been extraordinary.... |
| 01:02:59 |
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37, Senator. |
| 01:03:01 |
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37 days in Tallahassee, Florida in November and December 2000. [Laughter.] I want to point... |
| 01:04:31 |
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I’m not sure you can say that, Senator. But let me mention one other thing that’s in there that... |
| 01:05:36 |
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So too with the proposed two-state solution. The prime minister of Israel has said he wants... |
| 01:05:53 |
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I recommend that we bring Syria across and get them to get Hamas to acknowledge Israel’s right... |
| 01:06:12 |
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Senator, there are a lot of moderate Arabs that you have to appeal to in order to solve the... |
| 01:07:46 |
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Thank you very much. Senator Graham. |
| 01:07:49 |
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Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Again, thank you both on behalf of our country. I think the biggest contribution... |
| 01:08:16 |
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I personally do, but then I’m a former marine. |
| 01:08:18 |
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I do as well. |
| 01:08:20 |
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We may have to draft you back into the Service here. |
| 01:08:23 |
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There’s no such thing as a former marine. Let me correct the record. I am a marine. |
| 01:08:25 |
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You’re always a marine. Once a marine, always a marine. |
| 01:08:27 |
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That’s right. |
| 01:08:29 |
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I’m glad you’re on our side, then and now. |
| 01:08:29 |
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That’s right. |
| 01:08:30 |
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Now, to me the heart of the matter is, we can differ about how to go forward and that’s okay,... |
| 01:09:01 |
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I think so. |
| 01:09:06 |
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Our whole premise of the policy is that they are. |
| 01:09:11 |
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Okay. The second question is—— |
| 01:09:13 |
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Excuse me. The whole premise of our policy suggestions in our report is that they are. |
| 01:09:20 |
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That’s important for the country to hear, because a lot of Americans don’t believe that. Do... |
| 01:09:26 |
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I think I do agree with it. Your judgment on that would be better than mine. Now, I don’t want... |
| 01:09:34 |
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I don’t mean to—well, I think we all have doubts. We probably have doubts about our own democracy.... |
| 01:09:44 |
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There are a lot of pundits writing now about how the Iraqi government will never be able to... |
| 01:10:00 |
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But you both believe, after having analyzed the situation, that there’s reason to believe with... |
| 01:10:08 |
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Yes. |
| 01:10:08 |
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Yes, we believe that. The ‘‘if’’ clause you used is hugely important. |
| 01:10:12 |
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That’s where the debate is, and I don’t want to monopolize more than my time. Last question.... |
| 01:10:28 |
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I’ll answer for myself, Senator. In my view it may not have been when we first went in, but... |
| 01:10:35 |
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The outcome affects the overall war on terror? |
| 01:10:38 |
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It certainly does. |
| 01:10:39 |
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Mr. Hamilton? |
| 01:10:40 |
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I would strike the word ‘‘the’’ and use ‘‘a’’. It is a central front. Look, al Qaeda today is... |
| 01:10:59 |
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Well said. |
| 01:10:59 |
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Thank you very much. |
| 01:11:00 |
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Thank you, Mr. Chairman. |
| 01:11:01 |
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Senator Clinton. |
| 01:11:02 |
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Thank you very much again, gentlemen, for your service to our country once again. I think you... |
| 01:12:06 |
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I think it’s a correct statement, but it’s not the only leverage we have, the troop level. I... |
| 01:12:39 |
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But let me follow up and ask about our own Government, because you have a series of recommendations... |
| 01:13:47 |
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Senator Clinton, I think if Congress were to, in addition to praising this report, which many... |
| 01:14:44 |
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Congress is a co-equal branch of Government. I frankly am not that impressed with what Congress... |
| 01:15:38 |
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Thank you. |
| 01:15:39 |
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Thank you. I feel I must make an observation here. Yes, Congress is very impressed with... |
| 01:16:23 |
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Thank you, Senator, but could you say this is good until something better comes along? |
| 01:16:28 |
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I’ll let your question stand unanswered. Thank you, dear friend. I know you too well. Senator... |
| 01:16:37 |
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Gentlemen, let me add my word of thanks. I think you’ve rendered a great service to the country.... |
| 01:18:54 |
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That’s correct. |
| 01:18:56 |
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There are some who’ve criticized the President for not agreeing to talk to Iran. But from what... |
| 01:19:10 |
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Further to that, Senator, the President authorized his Secretary of State to attend a meeting... |
| 01:19:31 |
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You’ve been around this city a lot longer than I have, but sometimes these positions appear... |
| 01:19:42 |
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Before you ask the second question, may I just say something about the ‘‘shape up or ship out’’?... |
| 01:20:27 |
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My last question is, you recommend that the United States talk to al-Sadr. At one point there... |
| 01:20:40 |
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Because he’s a very important leader in the country. We had described to us again and again... |
| 01:21:46 |
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Senator, that arrest warrant, you’re right, but it was quite some time ago, and it was rescinded... |
| 01:21:54 |
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Thank you, Mr. Chairman. |
| 01:21:58 |
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Senator Dayton, would you indulge me? I wish to go vote. |
| 01:22:00 |
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Yes. |
| 01:22:01 |
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Then Senator Levin and Senator Thune will resume. VerDate 0ct 09 2002 09:55 Jun 25, 2007... |
| 01:22:29 |
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Absolutely. I understand that, Senator. Absolutely. |
| 01:22:32 |
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Then have some input. Now, practically we’re going to be out of here in about 48 hours, not... |
| 01:22:44 |
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Absolutely. |
| 01:22:45 |
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But I’m sure a number of us could come back and work with the administration. I know my colleague... |
| 01:22:51 |
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With the President, indeed we made that point. The chairman made it to the President. He... |
| 01:23:09 |
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I just ask one observation that perplexes me greatly. I’ve been back and forth, maybe not as... |
| 01:24:26 |
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Senator, this is the first time to my knowledge that you’ve ever had a state that has been dominated... |
| 01:25:24 |
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I thank you both very much, and I must depart for the vote at this point in time. But you’ve... |
| 01:25:44 |
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Senator Warner, thank you. I want to add my appreciation to that of Congressman Hamilton. I... |
| 01:26:07 |
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I thank you with a great sense of humility for that recognition. Senator Dayton. |
| 01:26:14 |
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Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, gentlemen, both for your service. Some cynic was quoted... |
| 01:26:44 |
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I think we reject the idea that the situation is hopeless. |
| 01:26:48 |
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So it’s not a one. Where are we on that spectrum from hopeless to successful? |
| 01:26:52 |
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Oh, my mind doesn’t think in those quantitative terms, I guess, Senator. I think where we are... |
| 01:27:32 |
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I understand. This leads into my next question, which is: To get to the point where your recommendations... |
| 01:28:08 |
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There certainly is that point and we’re perilously close to that point, and that’s why we emphasize... |
| 01:28:27 |
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Mr. Chairman, I’ll let our distinguished visitors move on. |
| 01:28:31 |
|
Thank you. Has Senator Nelson had an opportunity? |
| 01:28:35 |
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Yes. |
| 01:28:36 |
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We’re past the 11 o’clock hour. We thank you for not just your contribution to this Nation and... |