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| TIME | SPEAKER | TEXT |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:24 |
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WE'LL GET TO IT. |
| 00:00:27 |
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THANKS FOR JOINING US. I'M DIANE RAIM. AS A NATION WE DELIGHT IN RATION TO RICHES TAR HEELS. BUT... |
| 00:01:20 |
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GOOD MORNING, DIANE. |
| 00:01:22 |
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I WAS FASCINATED YOU BEGAN THE BOOK WITH A PROLOGUE ABOUT THOREAU'S FUNERAL, AND IT WAS EMERSON WHO... |
| 00:01:59 |
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THOREAU BECAME SOMETHING OF A MUSE IN THIS BOOK I THINK BECAUSE TO US HE REPRESENTS THE BEST ALTERNATIVE... |
| 00:03:39 |
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DOESN'T THAT SUGGEST HOWEVER THAT FAILURE IS IN THE EYES OF THE BEHOLDER? |
| 00:03:45 |
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I THINK IT IS IN THE EYES OF THE BEHOLDER. THAT'S PERHAPS THE BEST HOPE AND BALM THAT WE CAN EACH... |
| 00:04:15 |
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THE WHOLE IDEA OF THE HISTORY OF FAILURE REALLY CHANGES DRAMATICALLY IN THE 19TH CENTURY. SOMEHOW... |
| 00:04:55 |
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THAT WAS THE THING THAT SURPRISED ME MOST IN WRITING THIS BOOK. I ASSUMED WHEN I STARTED THAT FAILURE... |
| 00:06:53 |
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SCOTT IS AN ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF HISTORY AT CARNEGIE MELLON UNIVERSITY. HE'S THE AUTHOR OF A BRAND... |
| 00:07:18 |
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YEAH. THERE WERE A NUMBER OF THEM, ACTUALLY. THE IMPETUS FOR WRITING THIS BOOK FIRST CAME IN THE EARLY... |
| 00:08:55 |
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OF COURSE HE HIMSELF FELT HIMSELF TO BE A FAILURE ON MANY FRONTS. BUT THERE WAS ALSO A CONVERSATION,... |
| 00:09:11 |
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YES. SO THE BOOKSTORE AND ABRAHAM LINCOLN WAS THE PROFESSIONAL SIDE OF WRITING THIS BOOK. THE PERSONAL... |
| 00:09:30 |
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HOW OLD WAS SHE? |
| 00:09:32 |
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SHE WAS 83. SHE WAS BLIND. AND SO I HAD A TAPE RECORDER WITH ME THAT I DIDN'T TELL HER ABOUT. THIS... |
| 00:09:43 |
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YOU DID NOT TELL HER YOU WERE ABOUT TO TAPE HER. |
| 00:09:46 |
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I DID NOT TELL HER I WAS TAPE RECORDING HER. BUT I ASKED HER TO TELL ME ABOUT HER LIFE. SHE TOLD... |
| 00:11:09 |
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WHAT IS A REGULATOR CLOCK? |
| 00:11:11 |
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A WALL CLOCK THAT SORT OF HAS A PENDULUM THAT SWINGS BACK AND FORTH. SHE PAUSED FOR A LONG TIME. ON... |
| 00:11:51 |
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THE BOOK WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IS TITLED, "BORN LOSERS" BY SCOTT SANDIDGE. WHEN WE RETURN MORE CONVERSATION... |
| 00:12:09 |
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THIS IS WONDERFUL. JUST WONDERFUL. |
| 00:12:11 |
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THANK YOU SO MUCH. |
| 00:12:15 |
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I'M WONDERING IF C-SPAN IS BROADCASTING THIS LIVE AND WHETHER -- IT'S TAPED. OK. BECAUSE I WAS GOING... |
| 00:13:25 |
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WELCOME BACK. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A HISTORY OF FAILURE IN AMERICA. A NEW BOOK BY SCOTT SAND IDGE... |
| 00:14:26 |
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ONE OF THE WAYS I DESCRIBE THE CHANGE THAT YOU HAVE ALLUDED TO IS THE LANGUAGE OF BUSINESS APPLIED... |
| 00:16:12 |
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HOW DID THE END OF SLAVERY AFFECT THE WHOLE CONCEPT OF WINNING AND LOSING? |
| 00:16:20 |
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IN A REALLY SURPRISING WAY. BEFORE THE CIVIL WAR IN AMERICA, THERE WERE TWO TYPES OF PEOPLE. A PERSON... |
| 00:17:12 |
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AND HOW DID THE MINISTERS OF THE CHURCH PREACH ABOUT FAILURE? |
| 00:17:21 |
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WELL, VERY MUCH THE WAY THE SENATORS AND CONGRESSMEN OF TODAY PREACH ABOUT IT IN REVISING OUR BANKRUPTCY... |
| 00:18:07 |
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IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE YOU SAY THE MOTTO OF THE 19TH CENTURY FOR SUCCESS BECAME THAT GO AHEAD MOTTO... |
| 00:18:38 |
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YES, IT IS. SOMETIMES I SAY THAT THE 19TH CENTURY INVENTED THE EXCLAMATION POINT. THAT PHRASE, GO... |
| 00:19:26 |
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OF COURSE SO MANY PEOPLE WROTE LETTERS TO THE JOHN D. ROCKEFELLERS AND J.P. MORGANS ASKING FOR MONEY.... |
| 00:19:46 |
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THOSE LETTERS ARE CALLED BEGGING LETTERS. THEY WERE CALLED THAT BACK IN THE 1800'S. I THINK THAT... |
| 00:20:27 |
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WHERE DID YOU FIND THEM? |
| 00:20:30 |
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I FOUND THEM IN NEEDLE IN A HAYSTACK STRATEGY OF LOOKING IN LETTERS AND DIARIES. I FOUND GOOD SOURCES... |
| 00:21:10 |
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WERE ANY OF THOSE LETTERS, AS FAR AS YOU COULD TELL, RESPONDED TO BY THESE GREAT MEN? |
| 00:21:16 |
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YES. AND I SHOULD MENTION THAT JOHN D. ROCKEFELLER WASN'T THE ONLY MAN WHO RECEIVED THEM. ANDREW... |
| 00:21:53 |
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ONE OF THE FASCINATING STORIES YOU TELL IN THE BOOK IS THAT OF LEWIS TAPIAN -- TAPPAN WHO IN 1841... |
| 00:22:10 |
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LEWIS TAPPAN IS ONE OF THE MOST FASCINATING CHARACTERS OF THE 19TH CENTURY. HE WAS A NEW ENGLAND CAL... |
| 00:23:42 |
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HANGING AROUND. |
| 00:23:45 |
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YOU DON'T THINK OF HENRY THOREAU HANGING AROUND ON WALL STREET. HE HAD COME TO NEW YORK TRYING TO... |
| 00:24:59 |
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BUT THIS WAS TRULY INVOLVING WHAT YOU CALL COVERT |
| 00:25:03 |
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YES. |
| 00:25:04 |
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WHO WENT ALL AROUND THE COUNTRY ASSESSING THE BEHAVIOR OF PEOPLE. HOW THEY DEALT WITH THEIR FINANCES.... |
| 00:25:22 |
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IT IS VERY EXTRAORDINARY. I THINK IT'S IN SOME WAYS THE BEGINNING OF THE INFORMATION INDUSTRY. IT'S... |
| 00:26:19 |
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SPYING ON THESE PEOPLE. |
| 00:26:20 |
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IT IS SPYING. ABSOLUTELY. |
| 00:26:23 |
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AND BEGINNING TO IDENTIFY WINNERS AND LOSERS. |
| 00:26:28 |
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AND SHAPING THE DEFINITIONS. |
| 00:26:30 |
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AT 27 BEFORE THE HOUR YOU'RE LISTENING TO THE DIANE RAME SHOW. WE HAVE A GREAT MANY CALLERS WAITING... |
| 00:27:20 |
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MOSTLY THE BOOK USES BUSINESS FAILURE AS AN ENTRY POINT. INTO PSYCH LOGICAL AND PERSONAL ISSUES ASSOCIATED... |
| 00:27:54 |
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OF COURSE, THEY TOOK THEIR OWN LIVES BECAUSE THEY CONSIDERED THEMSELVES AS TOTAL FAILURES. |
| 00:27:58 |
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CORRECT. AND SO THERE WAS A WINDOW INTO THE PSYCHOLOGY AT LEAST AT THE VERY END OF SOMEBODY'S LIFE... |
| 00:28:50 |
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AND THOSE ARE THE BOOKENDS OF YOUR BOOK, ARTHUR MILLER'S PLAY OF "DEATH OF A SALESMAN" AT THE END.... |
| 00:29:26 |
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THANKS FOR TAKING MY CALL. IT'S A VERY POIGNANT SUBJECT. I HAVE A QUESTION FOR SCOTT DEALING WITH... |
| 00:30:11 |
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THANKS FOR CALLING, BYRON. |
| 00:30:13 |
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AS A HISTORIAN, IT'S HARD FOR ME SOMETIMES TO OFFER DIRECTED ADVICE TO PEOPLE OTHER THAN THE LESSONS... |
| 00:30:51 |
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AND I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO HOLD THAT STORY FOR JUST A MOMENT. WE TAKE A SHORT BREAK IN OUR DISCUSSION... |
| 00:33:26 |
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JUST BEFORE THE BREAK IN OUR DISCUSSION OF NEW BOOK TITLED "BORN LOSERS", THE HISTORY OF FAILURE IN... |
| 00:33:56 |
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THIS IS IN RESPONSE TO THE CALL FROM BYRON IN DALLAS WHO ASKED ABOUT THE CONFLICT BETWEEN SUCCEEDING... |
| 00:35:36 |
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THAT $100,000. |
| 00:35:39 |
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BUYING BACK THOSE FAMILIES AND BRINGING THEM NORTH AND SETTING THEM FREE. SO HERE WAS A BEAUTIFUL... |
| 00:36:28 |
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HERE'S AN EMAIL. THAT ASKS I'D BE INTERESTED TO HEAR THE PROFESSOR'S OPINION ABOUT THE INFLUENCE OF... |
| 00:36:52 |
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THAT'S AN EXCELLENT QUESTION. ONE OF THE STORIES OF CHRISTIANITY IS THAT YOU RISK AND LOSE ALL IN... |
| 00:37:44 |
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LET'S GO TO ARIZONA. HI THERE, KATHY. YOU'RE ON THE AIR. |
| 00:37:48 |
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THANK YOU, DIANE. I REALLY APPRECIATE THE PROFESSOR'S MEASURED UNDERSTANDING OF ALL OF THIS FROM... |
| 00:38:29 |
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WELL, THE COMMENT IS A DEPRESSING ONE AND IN SOME WAYS THE BOOK FOLLOWS SOME OF THESE SAME THEMES.... |
| 00:40:24 |
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HERE'S AN EMAIL FROM DOUG IN BIG SANDY, MONTANA, WHO SAYS, "THE ANGEL CLARENCE SAYS IN "IT'S A WONDERFUL... |
| 00:41:07 |
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THAT IS ALSO A REALLY EVOCKTIVE COMMENT. AND, OF COURSE, CLARENCE THE ANGEL IN THE OLD JIMMY STEWART... |
| 00:42:34 |
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HERE IS AN EMAIL FROM HUMBERTO WHO SAYS, "AS A HISTORY STUDENT, I'M CONSTANTLY FASCINATED BY THE NUMBERS... |
| 00:43:21 |
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THAT'S AN EXCELLENT QUESTION FROM HUMBERTO. ONE OF THE PLACES I WAS ABLE TO DISTINGUISH ATTITUDES... |
| 00:43:46 |
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AND, OF COURSE, IN THE PERIOD YOU ARE LOOKING AT AND RESEARCHING VERY FEW WOMEN HAD ACHIEVED ANY POSITION... |
| 00:43:59 |
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THAT'S RIGHT. AND THAT'S PART OF WHAT I CALL THE DEMOCRATIZATION OF FAILURE. AS WE TALKED ABOUT IN... |
| 00:44:20 |
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LET'S LOOK AT RALPH'S QUESTION FROM ST. AUGUSTINE, FLORIDA. GOOD MORNING TO YOU. |
| 00:44:25 |
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GOOD MORNING. VERY INTERESTING SUBJECT. |
| 00:44:34 |
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GOOD. |
| 00:44:35 |
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I'VE COME ORIGINALLY FROM FLINT, MICHIGAN. WE HAD A GREAT FAILURE THERE IF YOU KNOW THE STORY. AND... |
| 00:45:12 |
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YEAH. |
| 00:45:13 |
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WHAT DOES THE AUTHOR THINK OF THAT? |
| 00:45:18 |
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I AGREE WITH THAT. I ALSO THINK THAT THERE ARE EXTERNAL ISSUES THAT ONE HAS TO PAY ATTENTION TO. ... |
| 00:45:52 |
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HERE'S AN INTERESTING EMAIL FROM DON ON LONG ISLAND IN NEW YORK. WHO SAYS, "I BELIEVE FAILURE IS ... |
| 00:46:34 |
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YEAH. AND THAT'S A PAINFUL QUESTION FOR ME PERSONALLY. IN A WAY. I WORKED ON THIS BOOK FOR MORE ... |
| 00:47:43 |
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AT SIX MINUTES BEFORE THE HOUR, YOU'RE LISTENING TO THE DIANE REAM SHOW. AND SCOTT, HOW DO YOU FEEL... |
| 00:47:54 |
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I FEEL GREAT. |
| 00:47:56 |
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HAVING FINISHED THE BOOK |
| 00:47:57 |
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HAVING FINISHED THIS BOOK. YEAH. IT WAS A GREAT ACT OF WILL. IS WHAT I TELL MY FRIENDS AND FAMILY... |
| 00:48:18 |
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SO THE EMOTIONAL IMPACT OF WORKING ON THIS BOOK, BEING EXPOSED TO PEOPLE WHO REALLY FELT LIKE LOSERS... |
| 00:48:53 |
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YEAH. |
| 00:48:54 |
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YOU COULD? |
| 00:48:56 |
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YEAH. BUT IT WAS HARD GOING. AND I BEGAN THINK, ALL RIGHT, I NOW UNDERSTAND WHY NOBODY WROTE A BOOK... |
| 00:49:05 |
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BECAUSE IT ALWAYS REFLECTS ON YOU. |
| 00:49:08 |
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IT'S A BUMMER. I MEAN, IT'S A TOUGH TOP DWROIK STAY WITH EVERY DAY. I HOPE MY BOOK IS NOT A BUMMER.... |
| 00:49:16 |
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YOUR BOOK IS NOT A BUMMER. I CAN ASSURE YOU OF THAT. IT'S A VERY INTERESTING DISCUSSION AND DISCOVERY... |
| 00:49:56 |
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YES. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. |
| 00:49:59 |
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DO YOU HAVE ANOTHER ONE? |
| 00:50:00 |
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YES. MY NEXT BOOK IS CALLED "HALF BREED CREEK." IT'S A VERY DIFFERENT TOPIC. IT'S ABOUT AN INDIAN... |
| 00:50:16 |
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SCOTT IS AN ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF HISTORY AT CARNEGIE MELON UNIVERSITY. HIS NEW BOOK IS TITLED "BORN... |
| 00:50:31 |
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THANK YOU, DIANE, FOR HAVING ME. |
| 00:50:34 |
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AND THANKS FOR LISTENING. I'M DIANE REAM. |
NOTE: The transcript for this program was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.
