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| TIME | SPEAKER | TEXT |
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| 00:00:21 |
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THIS WEEK ON "BOOKNOTES" OUR GUEST IS RICHARD PERLE, A RESIDENT FELLOW AT THE AMERICAN ENTERPRISE... |
| 00:00:46 |
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RICHARD PERLE, CO-AUTHOR OF "AN END TO EVIL, HOW TO WIN AND WAR ON TERROR," YOU WROTE ON PAGE 195,... |
| 00:01:03 |
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I'M TALKING ABOUT THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION FOR SURE, AND I DON'T THINK THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION... |
| 00:01:11 |
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YOU MEAN GEORGE HERBERT WALKER BUSH. |
| 00:01:12 |
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THAT'S RIGHT. |
| 00:01:14 |
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WHY ARE THEY WEAK-WILLED? |
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THEY FAILED TO RESPOND IN A MANNER THAFT TERRORISTS WOULD RECOGNIZE AS A REAL DEFENSE OF THIS COUNTRY.... |
| 00:02:00 |
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YOU NAME NAMES IN HERE ABOUT PEOPLE YOU DON'T AGREE WITH, LIKE JAMES BAKER AND BRENT SCOWCROFT AND... |
| 00:02:15 |
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I'M NOT A CLOSE FRIEND OF THE PRESIDENT. ALTHOUGH I ADMIRE HIM GREATLY. I WAS PART OF THE LITTLE GROUP... |
| 00:03:22 |
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IN YOUR MIND CAN YOU PUT YOUR FINGER ON WHEN THIS STARTED? |
| 00:03:27 |
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I THINK IT ACTUALLY GOES BACK IN SOME WAYS TO THE REAGAN ADMINISTRATION, IN WHICH I SERVED WHEN WE... |
| 00:04:10 |
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WHAT DO YOU DO FOR A LIVING, AND WHY DO YOU DO IT? |
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WELL, I DO A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS NOW SINCE LEAVING THE GOVERNMENT IN 1987, I HAVE BEEN A FELLOW... |
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AND WHY DO YOU DO IT? |
| 00:04:54 |
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WELL, I DO IT FOR TWO REASONS. ONE IS, LIKE EVERYONE ELSE, I HAVE TO WORK FOR A LIVING. BUT I HAVE... |
| 00:05:25 |
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WHY THIS PARTICULAR BOOK? AND WHEN DID YOU WRITE IT? |
| 00:05:30 |
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WELL, IT WAS WRITTEN MOSTLY LAST SPRING AND SUMMER. A MUTUAL FRIEND OF DAVID FRUM AND ME, DAVID GERSEN,... |
| 00:06:11 |
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HOW DID YOU DO IT? HOW DID YOU DIVIDE UP THE WRITING? |
| 00:06:15 |
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WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME TALKING AND SORT OF OUTLINING THE ARGUMENT WE WISHED TO MAKE. DAVID'S A BETTER... |
| 00:06:46 |
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IN THE EARLY PART OF THE BOOK YOU DEDICATE YOUR PART OF IT TO MR. WILLSTETER, WHO WAS -- WHO WAS HE?... |
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HE WAS A GREAT MAN, DEAR FRIEND. HE WAS PROBABLY THE SINGLE MOST SIGNIFICANT INFLUENCE ON STRATEGIC... |
| 00:07:45 |
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WHERE DID YOU MEET HIM? |
| 00:07:46 |
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I MET HIM IN HOLLYWOOD, CALIFORNIA, WHERE I GREW UP. I WAS A SFUNT AT HOLLYWOOD HIGH SCHOOL. SO WAS... |
| 00:08:55 |
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HOW MUCH DID YOU HAVE TOTAL? |
| 00:08:58 |
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I DID A MASTER'S DEGREE AT PRINCETON. I SHOULD HAVE GONE ALL THE WAY. IN FACT I PASSED ALL OF THE ... |
| 00:09:27 |
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WHAT WAS SENATOR JACKSON'S BASIC THINKING ABOUT WORLD AFFAIRS? WAS THERE A PREMISE THERE? |
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OH, YES, THERE WAS A CLEAR PREMISE. IT WAS AMERICAN STRENGTH IN STANDING UP TO TOLL TALL TARIANISM... |
| 00:10:24 |
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ALBERT AND SCOOP JACKSON DIED IN WHAT YEARS? |
| 00:10:29 |
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SCOOP DIED IN 1983, IN SEPTEMBER OF 1983. AND ALBERT DIED FIVE YEARS AGO. |
| 00:10:36 |
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IF BOTH OF THEM CAME BACK TODAY AND SAW THE INFLUENCE THAT MOST PEOPLE THINK YOU HAVE IN THIS TOWN,... |
| 00:10:46 |
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I THINK THEY -- I THINK THEY WOULD BE PLEASED IN THE WAY IN WHICH A FATHER IS PLEASED. BECAUSE BOTH... |
| 00:11:14 |
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YOUR PARENTS BOTH DEAD? |
| 00:11:16 |
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YES. |
| 00:11:17 |
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YOU GREW UP WHERE? |
| 00:11:21 |
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I GREW UP IN LOS ANGELES. MY FATHER WAS IN BUSINESS. HE ESTABLISHED A BUSINESS FOR HIMSELF AFTER HAVING... |
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WHAT KIND OF BUSINESS? |
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WHOLESALE TEXTILES. |
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DID YOU HAVE BROTHERS AND SISTERS? |
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ONE BROTHER. |
| 00:11:38 |
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WHAT INFLUENCE DID YOUR PARENTS HAVE ON YOU, WHAT KIND OF INFLUENCE? |
| 00:11:45 |
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THEY WERE WONDERFUL PEOPLE. THEY WERE NOT INTELLECTUALS, ALTHOUGH THEY CERTAINLY HAD A HIGH REGARD... |
| 00:12:17 |
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AS YOU KNOW THIS, BOOK HAS GOTTEN YOU SOME ENEMIES AND, OOK SOME FRIENDS. I WANT TO READ THE OPENING... |
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I DID. |
| 00:12:56 |
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WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION TO THAT AND OTHER THINGS SHE SAID? AND I CAN MENTION SOME OF THOSE. |
| 00:13:02 |
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WELL, I DISAGREE ABOUT HER CHARACTERIZATION OF THE TONE. WE DON'T KNOW IT ALL. WE LAY OUR ARGUMENT... |
| 00:14:01 |
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WHEN DO PEOPLE GET UNDER YOUR SKIN? |
| 00:14:04 |
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WELL, THEY DON'T FOR THE MOST PART. I'VE LEARNED A LONG TIME AGO, THERE'S PLENTY OF SCOPE FOR DISAGREEMENT.... |
| 00:14:33 |
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HAVE YOU SEEN THIS ADD THAT WAS IN "THE NEW YORK TIMES" A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO BY -- |
| 00:14:36 |
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YES. |
| 00:14:40 |
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I'M TRYING TO FIND IT HERE. HERE IT IS. THIS IS AN AD BY THE THOMAS PAIN PAIN.COMMON SENSE. IT STARTS... |
| 00:15:43 |
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FIRST, IF THEY TROUBLED THEMSELVES TO DO EVEN MINIMAL RESEARCH, THEY WOULD HAVE DISCOVERED AFTER VARIOUS... |
| 00:17:07 |
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TALK SOME MORE ABOUT THIS BUSINESS OF CONFLICT OF INTEREST. YOU WERE ON THE DEFENSE POLICY BOARD. ... |
| 00:17:20 |
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WELL, IT IS BASICALLY A GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO COME TOGETHER QUARTERLY WITH THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE... |
| 00:18:28 |
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WHEN ALL OF THIS DUST SETTLES ON THIS, DID ANY OF THIS HURT YOU FINANCIALLY? THE FACT YOU HAD TO RELINQUISH... |
| 00:18:40 |
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I DID NOT HAVE TO RELINQUISH, I RELINQUISHED IT VOLUNTARILY, BECAUSE THIS ALL BROKE AS THE WAR AGAINST... |
| 00:19:58 |
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BY THE WAY, DID YOU GET HURT ANY WAY IN THIS? |
| 00:20:00 |
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SURE. IT WAS VERY PAINFUL. IT IS PAINFUL FOR ME, MY FAMILY. MY SON IS A LAW STUDENT NOW IN HIS SECOND... |
| 00:21:13 |
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TALK TALK SOME ABOUT THIS WHOLE BUSINESS OF CONFLICT OF INTEREST AGAIN. HOW FAR SHOULD -- THE PUBLIC... |
| 00:21:45 |
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WELL, THE RULE IS THAT YOU DO NOT RENDER ADVICE OR ATTEMPT TO INFLUENCE THE GOVERNMENT ON ANY MATTER... |
| 00:23:13 |
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ONE LAST QUESTION ON THIS PARTICULAR THING. DID THE ADMINISTRATION ASK YOU TO STEP DOWN AS CHAIRMAN?... |
| 00:23:18 |
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NO. NO. AND DONALD RUMSFELD MADE A VERY KIND STATEMENT WHEN I RESIGNED THE CHAIRMANSHIP SAYING HE... |
| 00:23:35 |
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ON PAGE SIX YOU WRITE, "GENERALS, DIPLOMATS AND LAWMAKERS WHO REQUIRED AND NOW WORK FOR THE SAUDI... |
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I THINK THE SAUDIS ARE VERY IMPORTANT BECAUSE THEY HAVE PUT VAST SUMS, TENS OF BILLIONS AT THE DISPOSAL... |
| 00:24:42 |
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YOU WRITE "SAUDI ARABIA PRESENTS A UNIQUE PROBLEM. UNLIKE MEXICO AND UNLIKE BRITAIN IT IS -- IT HAS... |
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I THINK THERE ARE HUGE AMOUNTS OF SAUDI MONEY THAT FLOW TO LAW FIRMS AND LOBBYISTS, AND IT IS CONSCIENCE... |
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HOW MANY FORMER AMERICAN AMBASSADORS TO SAUDI ARABIA ARE ON THE SAUDI ARABIAN PAYROLL? |
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I THINK MOST OF THE FORMER AMBASSADORS HAVE WORKS EITHER WITH PRIVATE SAUDI COMPANIES OR WITH THE... |
| 00:26:39 |
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THE JAMES BAKER LAW FIRM OUT OF HOUSTON HAS AN OFFICE IN REHAD. WE KNOW THE BIN LADEN FAMILY INVOLVED... |
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IT IS VERY HARD TO JUDGE THE NATURE OF THOSE RELATIONSHIPS. I THINK HAVING BEEN JUDGED WRONGLY ON... |
| 00:27:43 |
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WHAT'S THE BASIS, AS YOU SAY IN YOUR BOOK, THE HATRED FOR ISRAEL BY THE ARAB COUNTRIES? |
| 00:27:49 |
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I THINK THERE'S A WHOLE RANGE OF VIEWS HERE BUT SOME OF IT IS INSTRUMENTAL, AND THAT IS TO SAY IT... |
| 00:29:08 |
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JUST FOR A MOMENT, HOW MANY PEOPLE IN ISRAEL? |
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5 MILLION ROUGHLY. |
| 00:29:13 |
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HOW MANY PEOPLE -- WHAT, YOU MENTIONED SOMETHING LIKE 22 ARAB COUNTRIES, TOTAL NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN... |
| 00:29:20 |
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IT IS WELL OVER 150 MILLION. |
| 00:29:21 |
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LET ME ASK THE QUESTION AGAIN -- HOW COULD HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WORK UP SUCH A LADDER OVER... |
| 00:29:32 |
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IN PART IT IS A QUESTION OF PERCEPTION. THE NIGHTLY NEWS COVERAGE IN MOST OF THE WORLD PORTRAYS THEM... |
| 00:30:59 |
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HAVE YOU BEEN TO SAUDI ARABIA? |
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I WAS, A LONG TIME AGO, BEFORE THE ESTABLISHMENT OF OPEC OR AT LEAST BEFORE OPEC WAS EVER EFFECTIVE.... |
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BECAUSE? |
| 00:31:13 |
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BECAUSE I'M JEWISH. AND THEIR POLICY WAS IN THOSE DAYS, YOU DO NOT GIVE VISAS TO JEWS. SO WHEN THE... |
| 00:32:24 |
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YOU WRITE IN YOUR BOOK ONLY 3 MILLION OF SAUDI ARABIA'S 14 MILLION CITIZENS ARE EMPLOYED. THERE ARE... |
| 00:32:34 |
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I THINK THE TOTAL POPULATION IS WELL OVER 20 MILLION. BUT I THINK THAT'S THE RIGHT NEWSPAPER FOR CITIZENS.... |
| 00:32:39 |
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AND YOU SAY, WHILE THERE ARE 7 MILLION FOREIGNERS LIVING IN SAUDI ARABIA, THE GOVERNMENT TAKES CARE... |
| 00:32:55 |
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I DON'T BELIEVE THEY CAN. AND THEY NEED SOMEBODY TO WORK. BY AND LARGE, THE SAUDIS DON'T WORK. THAT'S... |
| 00:33:48 |
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SO SINCE 1990, THE UNEMPLOYMENT RATE IN THE ARAB WORLD HAS BEEN VERY, VERY HIGH. 25% IN SAUDI ARABIA.... |
| 00:33:59 |
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WELL, IT IS VOLUNTARY IF YOU'RE GOING TO LIVE COMFORTABLELY BECAUSE YOU ARE PART OF THE ELITE STRUCTURE... |
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WHY HADN'T THE GOVERNMENT HERE, NAME YOUR POLITICIAN, CALLED FOR SACRIFICE WHEN IT COMES TO ENERGY,... |
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THEY HAD BEEN -- |
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I'M TALKING ABOUT A SERIOUS CALL. |
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I THINK PART OF THE REASON IS OIL IS SPONGEABLE. SO IF WE REDUCED OUR CONSUMPTION OF OIL DRAMATICALLY,... |
| 00:35:40 |
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YOU TALK ABOUT HOW -- WE MENTIONED SOME OF THIS, HOW THE SAUDIS USE THEIR MONEY HERE WITH FORMER AMERICAN... |
| 00:36:03 |
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I THINK HE LIES. HE LIED ABOUT ME. HE IS THE PERSON QUOTED IN THE CY HERSCH PIECE, SAYING I WAS ATTENDING... |
| 00:36:17 |
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WHAT ABOUT HIS WIFE'S CONTRIBUTION TO POSSIBLE TERRORISTS? |
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HE'S MADE AN EXPLANATION FOR THAT. I DON'T KNOW HOW ONE GOES ABOUT PROVEING IT. I THINK GIVEN THE... |
| 00:36:43 |
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AND BARBARA BUSH'S NEW BOOK THERE IS A PICTURE OF PRINCE BANDAR IN THERE AND A STORY ABOUT HOW HE... |
| 00:36:57 |
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THAT IS NOT A RELATIONSHIP I CAN JUDGE. I DON'T HAVE ANY INSIGHT INTO IT. BUT PRINCE BANDAR IS A VERY... |
| 00:38:28 |
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GEORGE SOROS WAS ON BOOKNOTES LAST WEEK. AS YOU KNOW, HE TAKES A DIFFERENT VIEW THAN YOU DO ON THE... |
| 00:38:43 |
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THE AMERICAN DOCTRINE IS THIS IDEOLOGY THAT INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS ARE RELATIONS OF POWER NOT LAW.... |
| 00:39:42 |
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HE'S TALKING ABOUT THE NEW AMERICAN CENTURY.ORG. YOU SIGNED A LETTER IN 1998, AND A WHOLE GROUP OF... |
| 00:40:10 |
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TOWARD IRAN. |
| 00:40:11 |
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DECLARED IRAN TO BE A DEMOCRACY. THAT'S A STATEMENT I THINK HE WILL ULTIMATELY REGRET. |
| 00:40:17 |
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GO BACK TO THIS. YOUR ENEMIES SEE THE NEW AMERICAN CENTURY.ORG AS THE GREAT CONSPIRACIES. IT IS AN... |
| 00:40:30 |
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BECAUSE I BELIEVED THEN, AS DID THE OTHER CIGNA TORIES OF THAT LETTER, THAT OPPOSED A SIGNIFICANT... |
| 00:41:34 |
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WHAT ABOUT, YOU HAVE GOT, GEORGE SOROS HAS HIS OWN ORGANIZATIONS AND SPENDS HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF... |
| 00:41:48 |
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NO, OF COURSE NOT. I'M A LITTLE SURPRISED GEORGE SOROS WOULD SUBSCRIBE TO WHAT AMOUNTS TO A CONSPIRACY... |
| 00:42:34 |
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DO YOU EVER GET TOGETHER -- IF YOU GOT THAT GROUP TOGETHER, YOU COULD ALL SIT AROUND AND SAY WE WON... |
| 00:42:45 |
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I THINK THE PRESIDENT CLAIM TO THE KONS COLLUSION ON THE BASIS OF THE EVIDENCE HE SAW THAT SADDAM... |
| 00:43:32 |
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AND YOU HAVE NOT TALKED TO THIS PRESIDENT SINCE HE'S BEEN IN OFFICE? NO, I HAVE NOT. |
| 00:43:36 |
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HAVE YOU TRIED? |
| 00:43:37 |
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NO, I HAVEN'T TRIED. HE KNOWS WHERE TO FIND ME. I THINK HE'S VERY WELL ADVISED BY THE PEOPLE WHO WORK... |
| 00:43:47 |
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HOW OFTEN DO YOU ADVISE DONE RUMSFELD? |
| 00:43:49 |
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I PARTICIPATE IN MEETINGS OF THE DEFENSE POLICY BOARD. AND THEY TAKE PLACE QUARTERLY, ROUGHLY QUARTERLY.... |
| 00:44:03 |
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KNOWING WHAT YOU KNOW NOW, OR EVEN BEFORE, WOULD YOU HAVE SOLD THE IDEA OF GOING INTO IRAQ DIFFERENTLY?... |
| 00:44:11 |
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WELL, I TRIED TO SELL IT ON THE GROUNDS THAT IF WE FAILED TO DEAL WITH SADDAM, WE WOULD, FIRST OF... |
| 00:46:24 |
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PAGE 189. BOTH OF THE AUTHORS OF THIS BOOK AND OTHER AUTHORS, BOTH OF THE AUTHORS OF THIS BOOK HAVE... |
| 00:47:07 |
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NO, OF COURSE IT ISN'T A ZIONIST PLOT. OF COURSE IT ISN'T. AND IN FACT PRIOR TO THE REMOVAL OF SADDAM,... |
| 00:48:01 |
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HOW IMPORTANT IS ISRAEL AND ITS FUTURE TO YOU PERSONALLY? |
| 00:48:09 |
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ISRAEL IS DEMOCRACY. IT IS ONE I ADMIRE. IT IS IN A VERY DIFFICULT SITUATION NOW. DID PRETLY WITH... |
| 00:48:39 |
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AS YOU KNOW, THE NEXT STEP, THE NEXT QUESTION IS, YOU, RICHARD PERLE, WERE AN ADVISER |
| 00:48:44 |
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NEVER. |
| 00:48:45 |
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NOT TRUE? |
| 00:48:46 |
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NOT TRUE. |
| 00:48:49 |
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WHY IS THAT PRINTED SO OFTEN? |
| 00:48:51 |
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NOWADAYS SOMETHING GETS PRINTED ONCE AND GETS REPRINTED FOREVER. |
| 00:48:55 |
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YOU HAVE NEVER BEEN PAID BY THE LIKUD PARTY IN ISRAEL? |
| 00:48:58 |
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NEVER CONSULTED WITH THE LIKUD PARTY. OR ANY ORGANIZATION OF THE LIKUD PARTY. |
| 00:49:06 |
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IF YOU TYPE IN -- GO TO GOINGLE AND TYPE IN RICHARD PERLE AND LIKUD PARTY, BINGO, ALL OVER THE PLACE.... |
| 00:49:10 |
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SURE. |
| 00:49:12 |
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WHERE DID IT START? |
| 00:49:13 |
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I DON'T KNOW WHERE IT STARTED. IT IS FALSE. I KNOW THE LABELING OF THE PRINCE OF DARKNESS STARTED.... |
| 00:50:48 |
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HOW CLOSE ARE YOU TO NETANYAHU? |
| 00:50:50 |
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BEEBE'S AN OLD FRIEND. I THINK HE -- HE HAS BEEN VERY CLEAR AND VERY OUTSPOKEN ON THE IMPORTANCE OF... |
| 00:51:17 |
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IF ISRAEL AND -- I KNOW THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN -- BUT IF ISRAEL'S TAKEN OUT OF THIS EQUATION, TOTALLY... |
| 00:51:25 |
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YES, ABSOLUTELY. THE PEOPLE WHO DROVE AIRPLANES IN THE WORLD TRADE CENTER AND PENTAGON WERE NOT MOTIVATED... |
| 00:52:07 |
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I KNOW YOU COVERED THESE ISSUES AT SOME LENGTH IN YOUR BOOK. I WANT TO, WITH THE LITTLE TIME WE HAVE... |
| 00:52:18 |
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THEY ARE IN THE BUSINESS OF ARRANGING COMPROMISES. THAT'S WHAT THE STATE DEPARTMENT DOES. AND DIPLOMATS... |
| 00:53:25 |
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YOU TALK ABOUT A FAVORITE TRICK IN QUOTES AT STATE. A TRICK THAT THEY USE WHEN THEY WANT THE WORLD... |
| 00:53:41 |
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YES, THAT'S CERTAINLY MY INPUT BECAUSE I LIVED THAT EXPERIENCE. THEY GO OUT AND SOLICIT THE VIEWS... |
| 00:55:00 |
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IMAGINE SOMEBODY WATCHING THIS WHO IS NOT INVOLVED IN THE TOWN SAYING, I CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT I'M HEARING.... |
| 00:55:17 |
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I THINK IT IS NOT A VERY GOOD PRACTICE. OF COURSE, BY THE TIME THESE ISSUES GET TO THE PRESIDENT,... |
| 00:55:55 |
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YOU THINK THAT POLITICAL AMBASSADORS VERSUS FOREIGN SERVICE AMBASSADORS ARE A GOOD THING. WHY? |
| 00:56:00 |
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SOME OF THE BEST INVESTORS I HAVE SEEN IN THE FIELD WERE PEOPLE WHO DID NOT COME UP THROUGH THE FOREIGN... |
| 00:57:08 |
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IS YOUR COLLEAGUE GLAD HE WROTE THE PHRASE "AXIS OF EVIL?" |
| 00:57:15 |
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YES, I THINK HE'S GLAD AND I THINK SUBSEQUENT EVENTS HAVE DEMONSTRATED, NORTH KOREANS, ARMS MERCHANT... |
| 00:57:38 |
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OUR GUEST HAS BEEN RICHARD PERLE, CO-AUTHOR OF THIS BOOK, "AN END TO EVIL." THANK YOU VERY MUCH. |
| 00:57:45 |
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THANK YOU. |
NOTE: The transcript for this program was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.
