War with Iraq

Mar 28, 2003

C-SPAN | Washington Journal

Mr. Ellsberg and Mr. Kristol talked about the war with Iraq, protests against the war, the 1991 Gulf War, and related issues. They responded to audience telephone calls, faxes, and electronic mail. Mr. Ellsberg is the author of Secrets: A Memoir of Vietnam and the Pentagon Papers, published by Viking Press. Mr. Kristol is the .. Read More
Mr. Ellsberg and Mr. Kristol talked about the war with Iraq, protests against the war, the 1991 Gulf War, and related issues. They responded to audience telephone calls, faxes, and electronic mail. Mr. Ellsberg is the author of Secrets: A Memoir of Vietnam and the Pentagon Papers, published by Viking Press. Mr. Kristol is the co-author of The War over Iraq: Saddam's Tyranny and America's Mission, published by Encounter Books.

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TIME SPEAKER TEXT
00:00:18 none DANIEL ELLSBERG, HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU BEEN IN JAIL IN THE LAST WEEK?
00:00:23 Unidentified Speaker IN THE LAST WEEK? TWO.
00:00:26 Unidentified Speaker WHY?
00:00:34 Unidentified Speaker REALLY, I THINK JAIL-GOING, WHICH -- IN NEW YORK, WE SAW, WAS INVENTED BY HENRY DAVID THOREAU BY AN...
00:01:45 Unidentified Speaker BILL KRISTOL, WHEN YOU HEAR THIS, WHAT'S YOUR REACTION?
00:01:50 Unidentified Speaker I RESPECT THEM, SO I STRONGLY DISAGREE ABOUT THE MORALITY OF THE WAR. I THINK THIS IS BOTH A NECESSARY...
00:02:03 Unidentified Speaker HOW LONG AGO DID YOU COME TO THE POINT OF VIEW THAT YOU HAVE ABOUT THIS WAR? DO YOU REMEMBER? ABOUT...
00:02:12 Unidentified Speaker I WAS UNHAPPY IN 1991 WHEN WE STOPPED THE WAR AND LEFT THIS BRUTAL TYRANT IN POWER. I THINK WE BETRAYED...
00:02:52 Unidentified Speaker CAN I COMMENT ON THAT?
00:02:53 Unidentified Speaker YES.
00:02:54 Unidentified Speaker I CAN SUPPORT A LOT OF WHAT HE SAID, ACTUALLY, JUST NOW. IN FACT, I AGREE WITH YOU, AND I WAS LOOKING...
00:05:34 Unidentified Speaker I HAD NO DOCUMENTS TO PUT OUT. THERE WERE NO SECRETS ABOUT THE PRESIDENT'S POLICY.
00:05:39 Unidentified Speaker VICE PRESIDENT QAIL --
00:05:41 Unidentified Speaker THERE WERE NO SECRET DOCUMENTS OF OUR PRESIDENT'S POLICY.
00:05:44 Unidentified Speaker WERE THERE NOT ESTIMATES --
00:05:46 Unidentified Speaker WE WERE NOT GOING TO BAGHDAD AND NOT SUPPORTING THE REBELLION. IT WAS A TOTALLY PUBLIC POLICY. THERE...
00:05:56 Unidentified Speaker DID YOU WRITE MEMOS --
00:05:58 Unidentified Speaker I THINK THE VICE PRESIDENT RAISED THE ISSUE, CERTAINLY PAUL WOLFOWITZ WE KNOW NOW RAISED THE ISSUE...
00:06:23 Unidentified Speaker BUT THEY WERE IMMORAL.
00:06:25 Unidentified Speaker THAT'S NOT SO EASY TO CALL A POLITICAL DECISION IMMORAL. THESE WERE JUDGMENTS -- THESE WERE JUDGMENT...
00:06:44 Unidentified Speaker I WASN'T IN FAVOR OF GOING TO BAGHDAD.
00:06:49 Unidentified Speaker THAT'S SUPPORTING A POPULAR UPRISING AND NOT GOING TO WAR AT ALL.
00:06:52 Unidentified Speaker THAT'S NOT WHAT YOU SAY IN YOUR BOOK.
00:06:54 Unidentified Speaker NO, BUT IF YOU'RE -- WHAT I'M SAYING IS THE --
00:06:59 Unidentified Speaker WE SHOULD HAVE SUPPORTED THE POPULAR UPRISING.
00:07:08 Unidentified Speaker TO SUPPORT A TYRANTICAL GOVERNMENT. AND LEAVE THEM THERE AFTER -- SO THEY WERE MORE ENCOURAGED?
00:07:14 Unidentified Speaker I'M AGREEING WITH YOU HERE, WE WERE IN A POSITION TO CLEAR THE SKIES OF SADDAM'S --
00:07:20 Unidentified Speaker WE SHOULD HAVE DONE SO.
00:07:22 Unidentified Speaker BUT THOSE WERE KRIT TAL --
00:07:25 Unidentified Speaker WE PROBABLY WOULD HAVE HAD TO HAVE GONE TO BAGHDAD.
00:07:27 Unidentified Speaker AND WE WOULD HAVE DONE IT WITH THE SUPPORT OF THE SHIITES AND SUPPORT OF THE KURDS, WHICH WE'RE NOT...
00:07:41 Unidentified Speaker WE WILL GET IT.
00:07:42 Unidentified Speaker YOU'RE SURE OF THAT?
00:07:43 Unidentified Speaker YEAH.
00:07:44 Unidentified Speaker ARE YOU SURE?
00:07:46 Unidentified Speaker I'M QUITE SURE.
00:07:48 Unidentified Speaker WERE YOU SURE A WEEK AGO? DIDN'T YOU EXPECT MORE LIBERATING PHENOMENON? WHERE ARE THE ROSES?
00:07:54 Unidentified Speaker SADDAM'S FOLKS ARE KILLING PEOPLE WHO TRY TO COME OUT AND GREET AMERICANS WITH ROSES. THERE ARE HUNDREDS...
00:08:15 Unidentified Speaker YOUR CONFIDENCE HERE, YOUR POLICY HERE MAKES MORE SENSE OUT OF IT. WHAT IF YOUR CONFIDENCE OF -- WHAT...
00:08:23 Unidentified Speaker THAT MOST HUMAN BEINGS DO NOT LIKE BEING TYRANNIZED, AND SADDAM TO THIS VERY DAY SHOOT THUGS WHO SEEK...
00:08:36 Unidentified Speaker THAT'S UNDERSTANDABLE. AND I SHARE THAT BELIEF. BY ALL ACCOUNTS, THE PEOPLE OF IRAQ, SHIITES, KURDS,...
00:09:30 Unidentified Speaker WE'VE WORKED VERY HARD AND PRESSURED THE TURKS VERY HARD TO STAY OUT. AND I THINK-
00:09:37 Unidentified Speaker WITH THE $27 MILLION-OEF
00:09:39 Unidentified Speaker THAT WAS TO USE TURKEY TO LAUNCH A NORTHERN FRONT. TO MAKE THE WAR GO FASTER. I'M NOT AGAINST -- I'M...
00:09:55 Unidentified Speaker NOT THAT WE SHOULD, BUT WE WILL.
00:09:56 Unidentified Speaker WE WILL NOT.
00:09:58 Unidentified Speaker THIS IS WHY I BELIEVE SO. THE NOTION OF DEMOCRACY IN IRAQ I'M FOR. I'M FOR TOTALLY. AND FOR OTHER...
00:10:56 Unidentified Speaker THIS IS A KIND OF ETHNIC AND DETERMINISM --
00:10:59 Unidentified Speaker DETERMINISM?
00:11:02 Unidentified Speaker SHIITES DOESN'T MEAN THEY'RE GOING TO BE PRO IRAN. BECAUSE HUMAN BEINGS ARE SHIITES DOESN'T MEAN THEY'RE...
00:11:15 Unidentified Speaker I BELIEVE IN DEMOCRACY. I'M NOT AGAINST IT. I'M MAKING A PREDICTION OF U.S. POLICY.
00:11:20 Unidentified Speaker AND YOUR PREDICTION IS WHAT --
00:11:23 Unidentified Speaker MY PREDICTION IS THAT THE KURDS MONTHS AGO, IN A NO-FLY ZONE, HAD MORE AUTONOMY AND MORE DEMOCRACY...
00:12:02 Unidentified Speaker THAT'S NOT TRUE.
00:12:05 Unidentified Speaker WHY DID HE KEEP SADDAM IN POWER THEN? WHY DID HE MAKE --
00:12:09 Unidentified Speaker THE NATIONAL CONGRESS IS A MIXED GROUP OF SHIITES, SUNNIS, OTHERS. SECULAR PEOPLE.
00:12:16 Unidentified Speaker D ADMINISTRATION IS NOT GOING TO BE RUNNING THE GOVERNMENT --
00:12:18 Unidentified Speaker IT'S GOING TO BE AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE GOVERNMENT OF IRAQ. I'M SERIOUSLY DISTRESSED THAT YOU HAVE...
00:12:31 Unidentified Speaker IT'S FINE WITH ME IF THEY ACTUALLY SEPARATE FROM IRAQ.
00:12:34 Unidentified Speaker I DON'T ACTUALLY HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH IT EITHER. MAYBE WE'VE HAVE A CZECHOSLOVAKIAIAN, HELP THEM...
00:12:51 Unidentified Speaker LET'S NOT TALK ABOUT FUTURE DETERMINISM -- LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT THE REGIME IS SERVED, WHY IT MADE...
00:13:10 Unidentified Speaker THERE ARE SEVERAL REASONS. THEY THOUGHT IT WOULD WEAKEN SADDAM.
00:13:15 Unidentified Speaker VERY MUCH SO. SEE?
00:13:17 Unidentified Speaker THEY THOUGHT HE WOULD FALL OVER TIME. THEY THOUGHT HE WOULD BE SO WEAKENED OVER TIME, HE WOULD FALL....
00:13:26 Unidentified Speaker BUT WHY A POPULAR UPRISING? THE ISSUE WAS, DO WE KEEP THEIR HELICOPTERS FROM FLYING AND --
00:13:31 Unidentified Speaker TO USE FORCE.
00:13:33 Unidentified Speaker PARDON ME, NOT ON THE GROUND. YOU KEEP HELICOPTERS FROM FLYING IN THE AIR.
00:13:38 Unidentified Speaker SO LET'S JUST BE HONEST ABOUT THIS. I FIND IT --
00:13:42 Unidentified Speaker THANK YOU. OKAY. BUT AIR POWER. AIR POWER WE WERE AUTHORIZED FROM EVERY POINT OF VIEW TO USE, WAS...
00:13:54 Unidentified Speaker IT COULD HAVE WELL HAVE REQUIRED GROUND FORCES. YOU SHOULD BE THE FIRST TO SAY THIS, IF I MIGHT SAY,...
00:14:05 Unidentified Speaker WE HAD AN AGREEMENT THAT THEY COULD NOT USE AIR POWER WITHIN THEIR COUNTRY. PERFECTLY REASONABLE AFTER...
00:14:14 Unidentified Speaker NOW YOU'RE THE ONE THAT'S SO CONFIDENT THAT'S ALL WE HAD TO SAY. NO RESPONSIBLE ADMINISTRATION COULD...
00:14:28 Unidentified Speaker THE OTHER TERM IS TO DO NOTHING AND LET THEM BE SLAUGHTERED. MORE THAN WE LOST IN VIETNAM.
00:14:34 Unidentified Speaker I WAS NOT A SUPPORTER OF THAT.
00:14:36 Unidentified Speaker WHY DID THEY DO IT?
00:14:39 Unidentified Speaker IT WOULD ENCOURAGE FURTHER UPRISINGS.
00:14:41 Unidentified Speaker HAD WE GO IN ON THE GROUND EVEN AT THAT POINT, WE WOULD HAVE HAD WITH US SHIITES AND KURDS FIGHTINGOLOGYSIDE,...
00:14:51 Unidentified Speaker WE ACTUALLY HAVE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF SHIITE EX AISLES COME BACK --
00:14:57 Unidentified Speaker OUTSIDE THE COUNTRY.
00:14:59 Unidentified Speaker PEOPLE WHO FLED THE COUNTRY IN 1991 TO COME BACK TO HELP FOR THE LIBERATION OF IRAQ.
00:15:04 Unidentified Speaker THE PEOPLE WHO OPPOSE THIS WAR HAVE FAILED ONE LESSON OF INTELLIGENCE HISTORY, WHICH IS NOT TO RELY...
00:15:38 Unidentified Speaker ET LET ME INTER RUPT AND TELL OUR AUDIENCE, DANIEL ELLSBERG IS ONE VOICE YOU'RE HEARING AND BILL KRISTOL...
00:15:51 Caller HI. I WANT TO START WITH A COMMENT ABOUT OUR FLAG-WAVERS FROM 9-11. WHERE ARE ALL THEY NOW? BACK...
00:16:55 Unidentified Speaker ALL RIGHT, CALLER. THANKS. LET ME TAKE A CALL OPPOSED TO THIS WAR AND WE'LL GET YOU BACK IN IT. CALIFORNIA,...
00:17:05 Caller I WONDER HOW WE RECONCILE THESE VIEWS OF HOW WE TREAT THE AMERICAN INDIANS.
00:17:09 Unidentified Speaker IS THAT ALL YOU WANT TO SAY?
00:17:11 Caller THAT'S IN TOTAL.
00:17:12 Unidentified Speaker ALL RIGHT. THANKS. GENTLEMEN? MR. KRISTOL? WHY DON'T YOU ANSWER THE LAST ONE.
00:17:20 Unidentified Speaker WELL, I THINK THE AMERICAN INDIANS ARE NOW FULL CITIZENS OF AMERICA. WE HAVE INJUSTICES IN OUR PAST...
00:19:00 Unidentified Speaker NOT TO PERSONALIZE THIS TOO MUCH, BUT I DO UNDERSTAND YOU AS BEING ONE OF THE RELATIVELY SMALL NUMBER...
00:21:04 Unidentified Speaker THE PEOPLE IN SOUTH VIETNAM PREFERRED THAT TO THE CORRUPT GOVERNMENT?
00:21:09 Unidentified Speaker NO, AND I DON'T NOW. WHAT I DID COME TO REALIZE WAS THEY DID NOT WANT TO BE AT WAR, AND THESE WERE...
00:21:23 Unidentified Speaker THEY DID NOT WANT TO BE RULED BY NORTH VIETNAMESE TYRANNY EITHER.
00:21:29 Unidentified Speaker HAVE YOU BEEN TO NORTH VIETNAM?
00:21:30 Unidentified Speaker NO. I KNOW A MILLION OF PEOPLE LEFT VIETNAM. THEY LEFT NOT BECAUSE AMERICA WAS TAKING OVER NORTH...
00:21:46 Unidentified Speaker IT'S VERY UNWISE, AS I DID, AND MANY OTHER PEOPLE WHO DID THERE WORKING FOR THE GOVERNMENT MY ROLE...
00:22:34 Unidentified Speaker YOU JUST SAID THE MAJORITY OF SOUTH VIETNAMESE FOUGHT AGAINST THE NORTH VIETNAMESE --
00:22:39 Unidentified Speaker NO, NO, I DIDN'T SAY THAT. YOU ASKED ME WHETHER THEY PREFERRED THE NORTH VIETNAMESE. AND I SAID NO,...
00:23:42 Unidentified Speaker THERE ARE A COUPLE OF THOUSAND OF FEDAYEEN WHO ARE THUGS AND MURDERERS.
00:23:49 Unidentified Speaker DO YOU KNOW WHO THE FEDAYEENS ARE?
00:23:52 Unidentified Speaker YES, THEY'RE HAND-PICKED BY SADDAM. THERE ARE 3,000 OF THEM. THEY'RE MURDERERS. IT'S LIKE SAYING...
00:24:14 Unidentified Speaker THAT'S THE DANGER SADDAM MAY BE --
00:24:16 Unidentified Speaker IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
00:24:19 Unidentified Speaker LET'S TAKE A CALL, PARK HILL, OKLAHOMA, GO AHEAD, PLEASE.
00:24:22 Caller HELLO, BRIAN, HOW IS IT GOING?
00:24:24 Unidentified Speaker WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO SAY?
00:24:26 Caller I THINK IT SHOULD BE POINTED OUT THAT THE NEXT REAL VIETNAM IS IN SOUTH AMERICA, NOT IN IRAQ, LIKE...
00:24:45 Unidentified Speaker PARDON ME, I JUST SAID THAT SEVERAL TIMES.
00:24:47 Caller IT'S MY TIME, AND I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR 20 MINUTES. PLEASE. I WANT YOU TO KNOW, SIR, THAT IT WAS ACTUALLY...
00:26:03 Unidentified Speaker THANKS. LET ME ASK BOTH OF YOU A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS ABOUT, WHAT WERE YOUR POSITIONS ON GOING INTO...
00:26:13 Unidentified Speaker I SUPPORTED GOING INTO BOTH. AND THOUGHT THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION WAS -- BUT THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION...
00:26:27 Unidentified Speaker WHAT WAS YOUR POSITION?
00:26:29 Unidentified Speaker I THINK WHERE WE MAY REALLY DISAGREE, IF I RECALL, IS SUPPORTIVE OF SENATOR McCAIN. THE IDEA OF PUTTING...
00:27:23 Unidentified Speaker NORTH CAROLINA, YOU'RE ON. GOOD MORNING.
00:27:25 Caller YES, GOOD MORNING. I'D LIKE TO SETTLE A COUPLE OF PREM ILGSS, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, ONE WAR IS KILLING...
00:28:51 Unidentified Speaker BILL KRISTOL?
00:28:55 Unidentified Speaker I'LL LET DANIEL ELLSBERG TALK ON THE ANTI-PROTESTERS. WAR IS WHAT THEY DO WHEN THEY HAVE TO DEFEND...
00:29:17 Unidentified Speaker SHE SAID TWO REASONS TO GO TO WAR, ONE, THEY'VE DONE SOMETHING HORRIBLE TO YOU, OR THAT THEY'RE MASSACRING...
00:29:30 Unidentified Speaker THERE AREN'T MANY WORSE REGIMES IN THE WORLD. AND MASSACRE IS NOT A BAD WORD FOR WHAT HE'S DONE TO...
00:30:06 Unidentified Speaker WELL, THE LISTENER'S REALLY FUNDAMENTAL QUESTIONS. SHE'S NOT SPEAKING FROM THE POINT OF VIEW OF A...
00:32:31 Unidentified Speaker PORT ALLEN, LOUISIANA, GO AHEAD.
00:32:33 Caller YES, SIR. I JUST HAVE A LITTLE -- A COMMENT, BASICALLY, ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON IN NEW YORK AND SAN...
00:33:21 Unidentified Speaker THANKS. GO BACK TO HIS COMMENT ABOUT THE U.N. MR. ELLSBERG. DO YOU DISAGREE WITH --
00:33:39 Unidentified Speaker YEAH, YOU CAN'T -- WHAT ABOUT RWANDA, THE U.N. TOOK POSSESSION OF RWANDA. SHOULD WE HAVE NOT GONE...
00:33:46 Unidentified Speaker PARDON ME. BILL, YOU REALLY SLIDE OVER -- BY THE WAY, I WISH I HAD MY BOOK UP THERE, TOO. IT WASN'T...
00:33:54 Unidentified Speaker WE HAVEN'T SHOWN EITHER BOOK. BUT WE WILL SHOW PEOPLE --
00:33:57 Unidentified Speaker I DON'T INSIST YOU PUT IT ON TOP.
00:34:00 Unidentified Speaker THAT'S OKAY.
00:34:05 Unidentified Speaker THE ELLSBERG BOOK, AND THAT'S THAT'S --
00:34:07 Unidentified Speaker THAT'S MUCH THICKER.
00:34:10 Unidentified Speaker THERE YOU GO. THE -- RWANDA IS A VERY GOOD CASE. IN YOUR BOOK, WHICH I WAS LOOKING THROUGH, I NOTICED...
00:35:39 Unidentified Speaker I THINK IT WOULD HAVE BEEN JUST WHETHER IT WAS UNDER THE U.N.
00:35:42 Unidentified Speaker THE POINT IS, WE COULD HAVE GONE IN ON OUR OWN. THE WORLD LOOKING AT A POWER THAT THINKS THAT IT CAN...
00:35:58 Unidentified Speaker GOOD MORNING, PHILADELPHIA.
00:36:01 Caller GOOD MORNING. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THIS FORUM. AND I WANT TO THANK YOU, MR. ELLSBERG. I HOPE...
00:37:17 Unidentified Speaker LET'S GO TO ALLEN, KENTUCKY NEXT. GO AHEAD, PLEASE.
00:37:22 Caller YES, SIR. MY BIGGEST FEAR, AND FIRST OF ALL, I SUPPORT THE WAR. I SUPPORT THE PRESIDENT. I TRULY...
00:37:56 Unidentified Speaker WELL, THANK YOU. THE ANSWER TO THAT IS, I WAS DEFERED DURING THE KOREAN WAR FOR A YEAR TO FINISH HARVARD...
00:41:26 Unidentified Speaker LET ME TAKE A CALL. THIS WILL BE FOR BILL KRISTOL. WE GO TO RIDGEVILLE, ILLINOIS. YOU'RE ON THE AIR....
00:41:32 Caller YES, SIR. I WAS QUESTIONING THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION'S POLICIES AND NEGOTIATIONS. AND IF WE HAD WAITED...
00:42:12 Unidentified Speaker THANKS.
00:42:13 Unidentified Speaker WELL, I HAVE NO REASON TO BELIEVE WE WOULD HAVE HAD ANY MORE SUPPORT 12 MONTHS LATER, THAN WE HAD...
00:44:39 Unidentified Speaker CLEAR WATER, YOU'RE NEXT.
00:44:41 Caller BILL KRISTOL, I FEEL SORRY FOR YOU TODAY. YOU'RE TALKING TO A GENTLEMAN NEXT TO YOU THAT IS NOT WILLING...
00:46:06 Unidentified Speaker CALLER, WHY WERE YOU IN BAGHDAD 29 YEARS AGO?
00:46:08 Caller ACTUALLY, IT WAS A CONFIDENTIAL THING WHY I WAS THERE. AND BELIEVE ME, WHEN YOU GOT AMMUNITION POINTED...
00:46:26 Unidentified Speaker THANK YOU. MR. ELLSBERG?
00:46:30 Unidentified Speaker I'M SORRY, I'M LAUGHING, BECAUSE THE POINT OF SHORT ANSWERS IS INDEED A SIN OF MINE TO GO ON TOO LONG....
00:49:17 Unidentified Speaker PAKISTAN?
00:49:19 Unidentified Speaker NOTHING LIKE SADDAM. HE DON'T GO AROUND SLAUGHTERING TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE.
00:49:23 Unidentified Speaker WHAT ABOUT NORTH KOREA?
00:49:25 Unidentified Speaker NORTH KOREA IS ANOTHER REGIME AS HORRIBLE.
00:49:27 Unidentified Speaker DO YOU FAVOR A MILITARY ATTACK?
00:49:29 Unidentified Speaker I DO NOT THINK YOU CAN TAKE THE MILITARY OFF THE TABLE. YOU CAN'T HAVE THEM SELLING NUCLEAR MATERIALS...
00:49:40 Unidentified Speaker NO, I THINK, BY THE WAY, THAT IS A SERIOUS DANGER.
00:49:44 Unidentified Speaker I WOULD TRY TO EFFECT REGIME CHANGE IN NORTH KOREA.
00:49:47 Unidentified Speaker AND IF NOT.
00:49:49 Unidentified Speaker AND CHIN OH TO OPEN UP THE BORDERS. I THINK OUR POLICY TO CHINA HAS BEEN UNBELIEVELY WEAK. I'VE BEEN...
00:50:00 Unidentified Speaker YOU SAY BOMBING IT AND
00:50:01 Unidentified Speaker NO. I AM IN FAVOR OF NORTH KOREA. THEREFORE, PROBABLY OF SOME FORM OF EMBARGO OR QUARANTINE WHICH...
00:50:17 Unidentified Speaker THERE ARE DISTINCTIONS TO BE MADE HERE.
00:50:19 Unidentified Speaker I'M MAKING DISTINCTIONS. PEOPLE WHO SAY THAT WE JUST WANT TO BOMB EVERYPLACE. I WOULD MAKE, THEREFORE,...
00:50:56 Unidentified Speaker JUST A SECOND. LET ME TAKE A COUPLE CALLS. BECAUSE WE'VE GOT TO GET THE FOLKS IN HERE. LET'S GO TO...
00:51:04 Caller I WOULD LIKE TO ASK BOTH OF THEM ABOUT THE COMMENTS ON THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION OF THE LOCKING OF...
00:51:37 Unidentified Speaker WE'LL GET RIGHT BACK TO YOU ON THAT. NEW HAMPSHIRE, YOU'RE ON THE AIR.
00:51:42 Caller FIRST OF ALL, I SUPPORT THIS WAR ENTIRELY. I ALSO SUPPORT THE ANTI-WAR DEMONSTRATORS. I THINK PRO-WAR...
00:51:57 Unidentified Speaker LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION. WHY IS IT THAT THERE ARE MORE ANTI-WAR DEMONSTRATORS OUT THAN PRO-WAR,...
00:52:04 Caller I REALLY THINK IT GOES BACK TO THE '60s. THE DEMONSTRATING AGAINST WAR IS FUN FOR A LOT OF THEM. ...
00:52:22 Unidentified Speaker WHAT'S YOUR QUESTION?
00:52:23 Caller OKAY. MY QUESTION IS, LET'S GET THE HISTORY OF THE MIDDLE EAST. LET'S TOTALLY FORGET 9-11. US IN...
00:53:49 Unidentified Speaker DANIEL ELLSBERG. LET ME ASK YOU FIRST TO DEAL WITH THE PRESIDENTIAL PAPERS QUESTION.
00:53:56 Unidentified Speaker HOW COULD I FORGET.
00:53:57 Unidentified Speaker YEAH. WHAT IS YOUR FEELING ABOUT THE PRESIDENTIAL PAPERS?
00:54:01 Unidentified Speaker I THINK THERE'S EVERY REASON TO BELIEVE THAT PRESIDENTS, DEMOCRAT AND REPUBLICAN, WHO HOLD ON TO THEIR...
00:54:39 Unidentified Speaker LET ME ASK BILL KRISTOL ON THIS ISSUE, WHAT ABOUT YOUR POSITION ON THE PRESIDENTIAL PAPERS?
00:54:44 Unidentified Speaker I DON'T ACTUALLY KNOW HOW OLD THESE PAPERS ARE. BUT HAVING SERVED IN THE GOVERNMENT FOR SEVEN YEARS,...
00:55:11 Unidentified Speaker I THINK THE REASON HAS TO --
00:55:12 Unidentified Speaker WHAT ARE THE PAPERS UP THAT ARE BEING HELD UP?
00:55:15 Unidentified Speaker BOTH THE REAGAN ADMINISTRATION AND THE PREVIOUS BUSH ADMINISTRATION.
00:55:19 Unidentified Speaker THE ADMINISTRATION KEEPING THEM SECRET NOW, VERY LARGELY SERVED IN THOSE HISTORIC, NOT VERY LONG AGO,...
00:56:35 Unidentified Speaker A COMMENT AND THEN WE'VE GOT TO TAKE A CALL.
00:56:37 Unidentified Speaker SINCE WE HAVEN'T SEEN THE PAPERS, WE DON'T KNOW. THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ARGUMENT, YOU DO WANT PEOPLE...
00:56:49 Unidentified Speaker NOT IF IT'S NOT STRAIGHTFORWARD.
00:56:52 Unidentified Speaker IF EVERYTHING'S RELEASED 5 OR 10 OR 15 YEARS LATER, THAT YOU'RE DEALING WITH PEOPLE STILL IN POWER,...
00:57:09 Unidentified Speaker THERE'S A LITTLE TEST TO THAT. WHEN I PUT OUT 7,000 PAGES OF TOP-SECRET INFORMATION, PEOPLE HAVE...
00:57:44 Unidentified Speaker THAT'S NOT TRUE. YOUR PAPERS DIDN'T CHANGE POLICY.
00:57:47 Unidentified Speaker QUITE THE CONTRARY, THEY DIDN'T CHANGE THEM BECAUSE THEY WERE HISTORY WHEN I PUT THEM OUT. AND I...
00:59:03 Unidentified Speaker I JUST WANT TO RENL STER A STRONG DISSENT ABOUT IT. IT'S FINE IF YOU WANT TO TAKE CHANCES WITH YOUR...
00:59:15 Unidentified Speaker BUT THAT --
00:59:16 Unidentified Speaker I'M SORRY. IF THERE ARE CLASSIFIED MATERIALS THAT COULD ENDANGER AMERICAN LIVES IN A WAR WE ARE CURRENTLY...
00:59:30 Unidentified Speaker DID YOU HEAR ME SAY THAT?
00:59:31 Unidentified Speaker WHAT DOES IT MEAN, THE ESTIMATE OF HOW THE WAR IS GOING TO DO?
00:59:36 Unidentified Speaker WHEN CONGRESS ASKED THE PRESIDENT FOR A RANGE OF ESTIMATES OF WHAT THE U.S. CASUALTIES MAY BE, AND...
00:59:51 Unidentified Speaker WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? YOU HAVE A MEMO FROM SOMEBODY THAT SAYS --
00:59:55 Unidentified Speaker LET ME GIVE YOU --
00:59:58 Unidentified Speaker CONTEMPORANEOUSLY -- WELL, IF WE GO FAST TO BAGHDAD, THE SUPPLY LINES WILL BE WEEK AND GET ATTACKED...
01:00:10 Unidentified Speaker I THINK THE CONGRESS DESERVES TO KNOW --
01:00:12 Unidentified Speaker CONGRESS HAS AUTHORIZED THIS WAR.
01:00:14 Unidentified Speaker THEY HAVE IN TOTAL IGNORANCE OF ALL --
01:00:18 Unidentified Speaker THEY SHOULD HAVE TESTIFIED. THEY ARE THE REPRESENTATIVES OF THE GOVERNMENT. NOT ELECTED CIVIL SERVANTS....
01:00:24 Unidentified Speaker I AGREE WITH YOU. SINCE THEY'RE NOT GOING TO GET THE TRUTH FROM THOSE PEOPLE, THEY MIGHT CALL UP THE...
01:00:39 Unidentified Speaker THOSE ARE OFFICERS -- THAT'S NOT CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS ABOUT THE WAR PLANS.
01:00:42 Unidentified Speaker FORGET ABOUT THE WAR PLANS. I KNOW WHAT A WAR PLAN IS. I'VE WRITTEN THEM AND I'VE READ THEM. AND I...
01:01:02 Unidentified Speaker CLASSIFIED.
01:01:04 Unidentified Speaker -- CLASSIFIED, I'M TALKING ABOUT IT, THAT CONGRESS SHOULD HAVE -- SHOULD HAVE -- THEY CAN SEE THAT...
01:01:28 Unidentified Speaker WE'LL TAKE A CALL. WE'VE GOT TO INTERRUPT. THIS IS A CALL-IN SHOW. I DON'T MEAN TO INTERRUPT. GET...
01:01:40 Caller YES. I'D LIKE A COMMENT FROM MR. ELLSBERG, AND ALSO BRING IN MR. KRISTOL, ON THE THEORY THAT I'VE...
01:02:02 Unidentified Speaker ALL RIGHT. THANKS. LET'S GO TO CHARLSTON, SOUTH CAROLINA, YOU'RE ON THE AIR.
01:02:07 Caller I JUST WANTED TO ASK YOUR PEOPLE, DO THEY ENJOY THEIR FREEDOM, AND THE WAY WE GOT OUR FREEDOM IS WE...
01:02:32 Unidentified Speaker HOUSTON, TEXAS, YOU'RE ON.
01:02:35 Caller MY QUESTION IS FOR BILLY KRISTOL. PEOPLE SAY THIS IRAQ AND 9-11 ARE CONNECTED. AND I CAN'T REALLY SEE...
01:03:00 Unidentified Speaker WILLIAMSTON, GEORGIA, YOU'RE ON THE AIR.
01:03:02 Caller YES, SIR. I HAVE A COMMENT FOR MR. ELLSBERG, PLEASE. MR. ELLSBERG, ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH AN ORGANIZATION...
01:03:52 Unidentified Speaker QUICK ANSWER, BECAUSE I WANT TO TAKE SOME MORE CALLS.
01:03:55 Unidentified Speaker I WOULDN'T BE WILLING TO GO TO APOLOGIZE, BUT I WOULD BE HAPPY TO DISCUSS WHY ANY REASONS FOR THINKING...
01:04:08 Unidentified Speaker YOU WOULD GO TO A HOSTILE AUDIENCE THAT --
01:04:10 Unidentified Speaker YES, I WOULD RESPECT THEIR SERVICE. AND I WOULD BE GLAD TO DISCUSS THAT WITH THEM.
01:04:16 Unidentified Speaker CONCORD, NEW HAMPSHIRE, YOU'RE ON THE AIR.
01:04:18 Caller I WOULD LIKE TO ASK MR. --
01:04:20 Unidentified Speaker GO AHEAD, PLEASE. THAT'S TOO BAD. WARSAW, NEW YORK, YOU'RE ON THE AIR.
01:04:25 Caller GOOD MORNING, BRIAN. I JUST WANTED TO -- I USED TO BE A CALLER, BUT I'VE BECOME A LISTENER FOR THE...
01:05:08 Unidentified Speaker ONE MORE CALL AND WE'LL GO BACK TO OUR GUESTS. WE GO TO CONNECTICUT. YOU'RE ON THE AIR. CONNECTICUT,...
01:05:29 Unidentified Speaker THOSE QUESTIONS WERE REALLY FOR DAN ELLSBERG. WE DON'T KNOW, IF ANY, CONNECTION THERE WAS TO 9-11....
01:07:07 Unidentified Speaker WHAT ABOUT THE QUESTION EARLY ON ABOUT THE THEORY THAT THIS IS THE START IN IRAQ, AND IT WILL CONTINUE...
01:07:14 Unidentified Speaker ACTUALLY, I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR MORE ABOUT THAT FROM KRISTOL. I ASKED HIM IN EFFECT EARLIER WHAT'S...
01:07:53 Unidentified Speaker I THINK WE HAVE MADE A MISTAKE IN THE LAST 20 YEARS IN THE MIDDLE EAST. UNLIKE OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD...
01:09:16 Unidentified Speaker I REALLY HAVE A VERY DIFFERENT SENSE NOW, NOT WHEN I WAS IN THE GOVERNMENT, OF WHAT OUR ROLE HAS BEEN...
01:11:18 Unidentified Speaker WE HAD -- IT'S LUDICROUS. WE DIDN'T CHOOSE HUSSEIN. WE DIDN'T PUT HIM IN POWER.
01:11:23 Unidentified Speaker EXCUSE ME. IN 1963 -- WE DIDN'T PUT HIM IN POWER. IN 1963 WE SUPPLIED SPECIFICALLY SADDAM WITH LISTS,...
01:11:43 Unidentified Speaker IT PERSONALLY SUPPLIED SADDAM --
01:11:45 Unidentified Speaker PERSONALLY SUPPLIED. IT WASN'T JUST A MARGINAL ERROR. IN 1968, HE WAS OUR THUG TO NOR YAG A AND OTHER...
01:12:01 Unidentified Speaker IT'S WILD, FOR SIMPLIFICATION. THE BAATH PARTY WAS NOT A --
01:12:05 Unidentified Speaker IT IS BETTER THAN THE ALTERNATIVE IN OUR VIEW.
01:12:07 Unidentified Speaker WHY DID WE --
01:12:09 Unidentified Speaker WHY DID YOU SUPPORT SADDAM AS RECENTLY AS WHEN YOU WERE IN THE ADMINISTRATION, AND THE ANSWER IS --...
01:12:14 Unidentified Speaker I DIDN'T SUPPORT SADDAM WHEN I WAS IN THE ADMINISTRATION.
01:12:16 Unidentified Speaker PARDON ME. EVEN AFTER THE IRAQ -- FIRST OF ALL --
01:12:21 Unidentified Speaker I DIDN'T SUPPORT SADDAM IN 1991, OR '92 --
01:12:24 Unidentified Speaker WHEN WERE YOU IN THE ADMINISTRATION?
01:12:26 Unidentified Speaker '90 TOE '93.
01:12:28 Unidentified Speaker I RAISED THE QUESTION THAT YOU MIGHT NOT REASONABLY HAVE DONE WHAT YOU DID TO OPPOSE IT.
01:12:35 Unidentified Speaker THE WAR AGAINST SADDAM -- THERE'S LEFT-WING SUPPORT FOR THAT. MAYBE I MISSED THAT -- TAKING SADDAM...
01:12:44 Unidentified Speaker THE LEFT WAS NOT IN A POSITION TO THREATEN OR SHOOT SADDAM'S HELICOPTERS OUT OF THE AIR WHEN THEY WERE...
01:12:51 Unidentified Speaker I PARTICIPATED IN CRITICISM OF PRESIDENT BUSH -- THE FIRST PRESIDENT BUSH'S ADMINISTRATION. LET ME...
01:12:59 Unidentified Speaker FROM KUWAIT.
01:13:00 Unidentified Speaker RIGHT.
01:13:01 Unidentified Speaker NOT FROM POWER.
01:13:03 Unidentified Speaker AGAINST THE OPPOSITION OF THE HUGE DEMOCRATIC PARTY -- AGAINST THE OPPOSITION OF THE HUGE MAJORITY...
01:13:23 Unidentified Speaker I DON'T WANT TO BE IN A FALSE POSITION HERE. AT THAT TIME I AGREED WITH SENATOR NUN IN --
01:13:30 Unidentified Speaker SO YOU WERE AGAINST GETTING THEM OUT OF KUWAIT?
01:13:32 Unidentified Speaker NO. AT THAT TIME, A NUMBER OF FORMER FOUR-STAR MILITARY PEOPLE, FORMER JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF WHO ...
01:14:12 Unidentified Speaker THE ARGUMENT WAS WE COULD KEEP THEM OUT OF SAUDI ARABIA.
01:14:15 Unidentified Speaker SANCTIONS? NOT AT ALL.
01:14:20 Unidentified Speaker IT WAS TO BE EXPELLED FROM KUWAIT --
01:14:22 Unidentified Speaker SENATOR NUN WAS A LEFT-WING RAD DAL, FORGOT THE HISTORY OF THAT.
01:14:27 Unidentified Speaker PRESIDENT BUSH WAS RIGHT.
01:14:28 Unidentified Speaker IT WORKED OUT. SENATOR DUN'S CAREER, HE DID OVERESTIMATE THE AMERICAN COSTS OF GOING IN, AS DID MANY...
01:14:53 Unidentified Speaker IT IS IRRESPONSIBLE FOR YOU, TO TRY TO ALLY WITH THOSE LIKE ME AND WOLFOWITZ, TO FINISH THE JOB, AND...
01:15:09 Unidentified Speaker I DIDN'T SAY WE SHOULD HELP THEM.
01:15:12 Unidentified Speaker YOU SAID YOU SHOULD NOT BEGIN DOWN THAT ROAD.
01:15:14 Unidentified Speaker YOU DIDN'T HEAR ME.
01:15:16 Unidentified Speaker YOU CANNOT BEGIN DOWN THAT ROAD UNLESS YOU'RE WILLING TO SAY THAT IF YOU ARE WILLING TO HELP THE REBELS...
01:15:23 Unidentified Speaker I AGREE. WE'RE NOT DISAGREEING. WHAT I SAID WAS THAT IN PARTICULAR, I WOULD HAVE AGREED PRECISELY...
01:15:34 Unidentified Speaker OKAY.
01:15:35 Unidentified Speaker CALLS. MICHIGAN, YOU'RE ON THE AIR.
01:15:38 Caller YES. IN THIS WORLD THAT IS BECOMING MORE UNCERTAIN BECAUSE OF THE UNCERTAINTY OF WHAT MORALITY IS,...
01:16:58 Unidentified Speaker THANKS, CALLER. CONNECTICUT, YOU'RE ON THE AIR.
01:17:03 Caller I'D LIKE TO KNOW, A CRYSTAL BALL, WITH A C, IN THE FUTURE WHEN THIS WAR ENDS, DON'T KNOW HOW LONG...
01:17:39 Unidentified Speaker HURLEY, NEW MEXICO, GO AHEAD, PLEASE.
01:17:42 Caller YES, MR. ELLSBERG, I WAS AGAINST THE WAR TO START, BUT NOW THAT WE'RE IN IT, WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO...
01:18:01 Unidentified Speaker THANKS. ONE MORE CALL. WEST VIRGINIA, GO AHEAD, PLEASE.
01:18:06 Caller HI. I WANTED TO SAY THANK YOU TO MR. ELLSBERG. THE TRUTH IS NEVER POPULAR AMONG THE MASSES. AND HE...
01:18:31 Unidentified Speaker THANKS. MR. KRISTOL, MORALITY, HAS TO DO WITH WHEN WE GET OUR CREDENTIALS BACK. HOW DO WE GET IT?...
01:18:44 Unidentified Speaker I THINK THE MORAL CREDENTIALS OF THIS WAR ARE STRONG. WE'LL SEE IF WE FOLLOW THROUGH. IF WE FOLLOW...
01:21:38 Unidentified Speaker AN ANGUISHING SITUATION TODAY. THERE ARE NO GOOD ALTERNATIVES. NEITHER YOU NOR I OR THE PRESIDENT...
01:25:54 Unidentified Speaker THEY SHOULDN'T REMOVE THEM AFTER A WEEK WHEN WE'VE SUFFERED 25 DEATHS IN COMBAT.
01:25:58 Unidentified Speaker PERHAPS IT'S A LITTLE EARLY.
01:26:00 Unidentified Speaker DO YOU THINK A LITTLE EARLY? DO YOU THINK WOOING THE MILITARY IF WE CHANGED OUR MILITARY EVERY WEEK?...
01:26:06 Unidentified Speaker IT SEEMS TO ME --
01:26:09 Unidentified Speaker THIS IMANYIZATION OF PARTICULAR INDIVIDUALS IS UNWORTHY OF YOU. THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES,...
01:26:20 Unidentified Speaker DEFINITELY.
01:26:22 Unidentified Speaker DON'T PICK ON A DEPUTY SECRETARY OF DEFENSE BECAUSE HE ACTUALLY WAS -- SAW AHEAD OF SOME OF THESE...
01:26:29 Unidentified Speaker I UNDERSTAND YOU'RE DEFENDING PAUL WOLFOWITZ HERE. WHO HAS BEEN YOUR COLLEAGUE. I WOULD SAY, IF YOU...
01:27:05 Unidentified Speaker HOLD ON A MINUTE --
01:27:08 Unidentified Speaker -- BUT HE'S NOT GOING TO DO THAT.
01:27:12 Unidentified Speaker WHAT'S IT BEEN MISTAKEN --
01:27:14 Unidentified Speaker BY THE WAY, I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT ADVICE THEY'VE BEEN GIVING. WE'VE ONLY HAD LEAKS ON THAT. THERE...
01:27:36 Unidentified Speaker HE SHOULD BE SECOND-GUESSING?
01:27:38 Unidentified Speaker NO, GIVE IT ANOTHER WEEK.
01:27:39 Unidentified Speaker THIS IS UNWORTHY --
01:27:42 Unidentified Speaker GIVE IT ANOTHER WEEK. REMEMBER, I WAS IN --
01:27:45 Unidentified Speaker YOU WERE IN FAVOR OF THE CIVILIANS IN EXERCISING VIFLIAN CONTROL IN THE MILITARY. YOU WERE PROBABLY...
01:28:03 Unidentified Speaker GOT TO GO TO RICHARDSON, TEXAS. GO AHEAD, RICHARDSON, YOU'RE ON THE AIR.
01:28:08 Caller YES, SIR. I AM SUPPORTING THE PRESIDENT -- I'M NOT FOR WAR, BUT I'M GOING TO HAVE TO SUPPORT THE PRESIDENT...
01:28:31 Unidentified Speaker YOU CAN ASK ME QUESTIONS.
01:28:34 Caller WELL, NO, I REALLY -- BECAUSE IF I ASK THAT, MR. KRISTOL THERE, THE OTHER GUY'S GOING TO JUMP IN. ...
01:30:17 Unidentified Speaker THANKS.
01:30:18 Unidentified Speaker LET ME ASK A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS BEFORE EITHER ONE OF YOU ANSWERED. YOU GRADUATED FROM HARVARD,
01:30:23 Unidentified Speaker '52.
01:30:26 Unidentified Speaker '73.
01:30:29 Unidentified Speaker YOU GOT A PHD THERE IN WHAT?
01:30:30 Unidentified Speaker ECONOMICS.
01:30:31 Unidentified Speaker YOU GOT A PHD?
01:30:32 Unidentified Speaker POLITICAL SCIENCE.
01:30:34 Unidentified Speaker '62.
01:30:38 Unidentified Speaker YOU DID NOT SERVE IN THE
01:30:39 Unidentified Speaker NO.
01:30:40 Unidentified Speaker AND YOU SERVED HOW MANY YEARS IN THE MARINE CORPS? THREE YEARS. IN FOR TWO AND EXTENDED FOR ONE.
01:30:47 Unidentified Speaker DON'T WANT TO GO INTO ALL THE DETAILS ON THIS, GO BACK TO THE PENTAGON PAPERS. YOU GAVE THEM TO THE...
01:30:58 Unidentified Speaker WELL, I WAS INDICTED, AND WAS UNDER INDICTMENT OH FOR TWO YEARS. I WAS IN COURT FOR FOUR AND A HALF...
01:31:36 Unidentified Speaker OVER THE YEARS WHAT HAVE YOU DONE SINCE THEN? WHAT KIND OF WORK HAVE YOU DONE?
01:31:40 Unidentified Speaker OH, FIRST OF ALL, I MADE THE MONEY -- I MADE NO MONEY OUT OF THE PENTAGON PAPERS. I COPIED THEM AT...
01:32:09 Unidentified Speaker YOU WROTE THE BOOK LAST YEAR?
01:32:11 Unidentified Speaker I WROTE THE BOOK 0 YEARS LATER.
01:32:12 Unidentified Speaker IS THAT YOUR FIRST BOOK?
01:32:15 Unidentified Speaker NO, I WROTE A BOOK OF PREVIOUS ESSAYS CALLED PAPERS ON THE WAR IN '72.
01:32:20 Unidentified Speaker CHARLOTTE, NORTH CAROLINA, YOU'RE ON THE AIR, PLEASE.
01:32:23 Caller YES, SIR. FIRST OF ALL, I WANT TO CONGRATULATE MR. ELLSBERG. AND I'M GLAD THAT HE'S A VOICE OF TRUTH...
01:33:25 Unidentified Speaker MR. KRISTOL, START WITH HER SUGGEST THAT CNN IS FULL OF PROPAGANDA, AND THAT YOU HAVE TO GO OVERSEAS...
01:33:34 Unidentified Speaker WELL, I THINK LISTENING TO OVERSEAS CHANNEL --
01:33:37 Unidentified Speaker THAT'S WHAT I MEANT.
01:33:39 Unidentified Speaker I'M UNDER CONTRACT WITH FOX NEWS CHANNEL, SO I HAVE TO DISCLOSE THAT BEFORE I ATTACK CNN. BUT THAT'S...
01:34:31 Unidentified Speaker HAVE PEOPLE BEEN ABLE TO GET THE TRUTH BY WATCHING AMERICAN TELEVISION?
01:34:35 Unidentified Speaker IT'S NOT MY IMPRESSION. I WOULD DISAGREE WITH BILL ON THAT QUESTION. I DON'T THINK THERE HAS BEEN...
01:35:18 Unidentified Speaker LET ME ASK YOU THIS QUESTION ABOUT TELEVISION. WHERE WOULD YOU GO IN OTHER COUNTRIES ON OTHER CHANNELS...
01:35:27 Unidentified Speaker YOU GET A LOT MORE INFORMATION ON CANADIAN BROADCASTING CORPORATION, WHICH CAN BE SEEN ON C-SPAN,...
01:36:38 Unidentified Speaker THE WEEKLY STANDARD.COM, WE POST EVERY DAY, THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT ALL OF THESE HUNDREDS...
01:36:46 Unidentified Speaker ROCHESTER, NEW YORK, YOU'RE ON THE AIR.
01:36:48 Caller YES, GOOD MORNING. I'D LIKE TO ASK A QUESTION ABOUT PROTESTERS. WHY IS IT CITIES IN THIS COUNTRY ...
01:37:06 Unidentified Speaker YES, FIRST AMENDMENT OF THE UNITED STATES, PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT TO PEACEABLY ASSEMBLE FOR THEIR GRIEVANCES....
01:37:16 Unidentified Speaker THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. THERE ARE THESE PARKS IN CITY LIMITS THAT PEOPLE CAN PROTEST. PROTESTERS CHOOSE...
01:37:40 Unidentified Speaker I'VE HEARD ANECDOTAL HYPOTHETICAL ACCOUNTS FOR THAT FOR YEARS. I DON'T DOUBT IT COULD HAPPEN.
01:37:47 Unidentified Speaker IT HAPPENED IN SAN FRANCISCO.
01:37:48 Unidentified Speaker I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW THE NAME AND NUMBER --
01:37:50 Unidentified Speaker THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION. THERE IS A PARK RIGHT OUT THIS WINDOW HERE. PEOPLE CAN PROTEST ALL THEY WANT....
01:37:56 Unidentified Speaker I WAS IN LAFAYETTE PARK. WE WERE ARRESTED FOR PRAYING IN LAFAYETTE PARK. WHEND I SAY PRAYING, NEARLY...
01:39:01 Unidentified Speaker MOBILE, ALABAMA. HELLO, MOBILE.
01:39:03 Caller YES, MR. KRISTOL. BEAR WITH ME. FIRST, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A COMMENT AND THEN TWO QUICK QUESTIONS. I...
01:39:43 Unidentified Speaker MR. KRISTOL.
01:39:45 Unidentified Speaker I WOULD K SHOCKED IF WE DON'T FIND WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION. I THINK THAT IS ONE OF THE MAIN RATIONALES...
01:40:48 Unidentified Speaker TEXAS, GO AHEAD, PLEASE.
01:40:50 Caller YES, UNLIKE MR. KRISTOL, I WAS OLD ENOUGH WHEN MR. DANIEL ELLSBERG WAS EXPOSED FOR EXPOSING PENTAGON...
01:41:25 Unidentified Speaker CALLER --
01:41:27 Caller AND ONE OTHER THING --
01:41:30 Unidentified Speaker LET MEF ASK YOU A QUESTION, PLEASE.
01:41:32 Caller I AM IN SUPPORT OF PRESIDENT BUSH AND ALSO THIS --
01:41:35 Unidentified Speaker WHY DON'T YOU ANSWER WHAT SHE HAS TO SAY.
01:41:40 Unidentified Speaker WELL, WHAT I PUT OUT WAS NOT PROPAGANDA. IT WAS CLASSIFIED TOP-SECRET. IT HAD DOCUMENTED -- THESE...
01:42:49 Unidentified Speaker LET ME ASK, BILL KRISTOL, WHAT DO YOU THINK OF WHAT DAN ELLSBERG DID BACK THEN?
01:42:58 Unidentified Speaker I DON'T KNOW. I HAVEN'T ACTUALLY THOUGHT THAT MUCH ABOUT IT. IN GENERAL, I THINK -- ONE SHOULD NOT...
01:44:46 Unidentified Speaker WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE IDEA OF BREAKING INTO HIS PSYCHIATRIST'S OFFICE FOR HIS RECORDS?
01:44:51 Unidentified Speaker ON VUSLY -- OBVIOUSLY THAT'S WRONG.
01:44:53 Unidentified Speaker OUR CALLER SUGGESTED THAT WAS A GOOD DEAL. I MEAN, THAT -- BECAUSE HE WAS ON JANE FONDA'S SIDE, THAT...
01:44:58 Unidentified Speaker I DON'T THINK IT WAS LEGAL. AND I THINK IT WAS WRONG.
01:45:03 Unidentified Speaker INTERESTINGLY IT'S BECOME LEGAL. UNDER THE PATRIOT ACT NOW THAT WOULDN'T BE ILLEGAL NOT INFORMING...
01:45:13 Unidentified Speaker IF THEY HAD REASON TO BELIEVE YOU WERE A TERRORIST.
01:45:17 Unidentified Speaker NO, ONLY IF THEY HAD REASON TO BELIEVE NOT THAT I WAS A TERRORIST, IT'S NOT QUITE THAT EXCLUSIVE....
01:45:25 Unidentified Speaker NO, NO, THAT IS NOT THE LANGUAGE. THERE IS A LOT OF MONITORING --
01:45:30 Unidentified Speaker I'M JUST SAYING THAT I THINK NIXON TODAY --
01:45:32 Unidentified Speaker IT'S SIMPLY NOT THE CASE, WHAT YOU JUST SAID. IT WOULD NOT BE LEGAL TO BREAK INTO
01:45:40 Unidentified Speaker -- I HOPE THIS IS NOT --
01:45:42 Unidentified Speaker DO YOU THINK A LOT OF PSYCHIATRISTS OFFICES ARE BEING BROKEN INTO BY THE FEDERAL
01:45:46 Unidentified Speaker YES.
01:45:47 Unidentified Speaker THAT'S RIDICULOUS.
01:45:49 Unidentified Speaker YES. I THINK THE PRESIDENT -- I THINK THE PURPOSE OF THE ACT -- GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE. YOU SAID BUGGED....
01:46:07 Unidentified Speaker BUT IF YOUR EVE INVOLVED IN TERRORISM.
01:46:09 Unidentified Speaker WHO DECIDES THAT? ASHCROFT?
01:46:11 Unidentified Speaker NO, THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT OF THE UNITED STATES.
01:46:13 Unidentified Speaker THAT'S ASHCROFT.
01:46:14 Unidentified Speaker THAT'S NOT ASHCROFT. THAT'S RIDICULOUS, YOU'VE BEEN IN GOVERNMENT. HE HAS NO -- YOU THINK THERE SHOULD...
01:46:24 Unidentified Speaker NO, LISTEN, LET ME GO TO A VERY -- THE WARRANTLESS WIRETAPPING THEN WAS ILLEGAL, AND THEREFORE, HE...
01:46:43 Unidentified Speaker LET'S GO TO THE INDICTMENT OF MR. ONSBE IN FLORIDA. YOU THINK IT IS WRONG THAT WIRETAPS TO FIND THIS...
01:46:54 Unidentified Speaker SHOULD THE NSA TURNED LOOSE, OR THE CIA, NOW ENCOURAGED AS TOM HOUSTON WANTED TO DO UNDER NIXON, TO...
01:49:01 Unidentified Speaker LET ME --
01:49:03 Unidentified Speaker MR. KRISTOL, WE --
01:49:06 Unidentified Speaker I JUST WANT TO REGISTER MR. ELLSBERG'S TRU STATEMENT OF RULES OF ENGAGEMENT. THESE PEOPLE WHO ALLEGEDLY...
01:49:15 Unidentified Speaker I DIDN'T SAY THAT.
01:49:17 Unidentified Speaker I KNOW. BUT ON THE WAR ON TERROR, IT WAS A MAJOR ASSAULT, A MAJOR TALKING POINT OF THOSE CRITICAL...
01:49:32 Unidentified Speaker IN THE FIRST --
01:49:34 Unidentified Speaker WELL, NO, I'VE BEEN CRITICAL OF THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION AT TIMES WORRIED THEY'RE NOT DOING ENOUGH...
01:50:09 Unidentified Speaker DO YOU REDUCE THE --
01:50:12 Unidentified Speaker YES, OSAMA BIN LADEN'S RECRUITING VIDEOS, THAT AMERICA IS THE WEAK HORSE. IF AMERICA LOOKS WEEK, THERE...
01:50:20 Unidentified Speaker THAT'S OSAMA BIN LADEN.
01:50:21 Unidentified Speaker RIGHT.
01:50:22 Unidentified Speaker THAT'S NOT SADDAM.
01:50:24 Unidentified Speaker COME IN, MINNESOTA. YOU'RE ON THE AIR.
01:50:27 Caller YES. I WOULD LIKE TO THANK MR. ELLSBERG FOR HIS PO TROTIC SERVICE TO OUR COUNTRY. AND I WOULD RECOMMEND...
01:52:22 Unidentified Speaker THANKS, CALLER. LET ME -- WE ARE RUNNING OUT OF TIME AND I DON'T WANT TO TAKE THE ENTIRE -- WE HAVE...
01:52:42 Unidentified Speaker THAT'S NOT TRUE. I THINK THE OIL WILL BE USED FOR THE IRAQI PEOPLE. IF YOU HAD A POLICY THAT -- IF...
01:53:03 Unidentified Speaker DO YOU HAVE ANY REACTION TO HER CALL?
01:53:04 Unidentified Speaker I THINK THAT THE ISSUE HERE IS NOT OIL FOR PROFITS FOR INDIVIDUALS HERE. AND I BELIEVE THESE PEOPLE...
01:53:35 Unidentified Speaker LET'S GO TO KENTUCKY. YOU'RE ON THE AIR.
01:53:38 Caller YES, MY COMMENTS ARE, FIRST OF ALL, I SUPPORT OUR PRESIDENT, AND OUR TROOPS TOTALLY. MY COMMENT,...
01:53:53 Unidentified Speaker -- NO --
01:53:54 Caller YES, YOU DID.
01:53:56 Unidentified Speaker IT WAS POINTED OUT BY OUR HOST HERE.
01:53:58 Caller BUT ANYWAY, YOU ARE ALSO PROUD OF YOUR MARINE YEARS.
01:54:01 Unidentified Speaker THAT'S TRUE.
01:54:02 Caller DID YOU ACTUALLY FIGHT IN ANY OF THE TRENCHES. DID YOU ACTUALLY SHOOT ANYONE?
01:54:08 Unidentified Speaker AS A MATTER OF FACT -- IS THAT YOUR QUESTION? I DIDN'T MEAN TO INTERRUPT YOU.
01:54:12 Unidentified Speaker GO AHEAD.
01:54:13 Unidentified Speaker GOOD QUESTION. I WAS IN THE PEACE TIME MARINES. '54 TO '57. I EXTENDED FOR A YEAR WHEN IT LOOKED...
01:55:04 Unidentified Speaker LAST CALL FOR OUR TWO GUESTS. WE GO TO FLORIDA. HELLO.
01:55:09 Caller HI. I'M CALLING FROM MARGATE. I WAS LOOKING AT ONE OF THE STATIONS RECENTLY ABOUT THE WEEK AND A...
01:55:39 Unidentified Speaker KRISTOL, A POSSIBILITY OF IMPEACHMENT?
01:55:40 Unidentified Speaker I DON'T THINK SO.
01:55:41 Unidentified Speaker MR. ELLSBERG?
01:55:43 Unidentified Speaker PRACTICALLY SPEAKING, NO. BUT EVENTUALLY, THERE DOES COME A TIME, AND I HOPE IT'S NOT AFTER MONTHS...
01:56:08 Unidentified Speaker WE JUST HAVE A MINUTE LEFT. ON THE ISSUE OF RICHARD PERLE AND RESIGNING AS THE CHAIRMAN -- NOT OF...
01:56:19 Unidentified Speaker I DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT IT, FRANKLY. ALL I KNOW IS WHAT I'VE READ IN THE PRESS. IF HE HAD A CONFLICT...
01:56:37 Unidentified Speaker HE SAID HE WAS GOING TO GIVE THE MONEY TO THE FAMILIES OF IRAQ THAT LOST FAMILY MEMBERS IN THIS WAR....
01:56:47 Unidentified Speaker I'M MUCH MORE CONCERNED ABOUT THE BAD ADVICE, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, THAT HE'S BEEN GIVING UP TO NOW....
01:57:59 Unidentified Speaker FINAL KMEPT FROM BILL KRISTOL.
01:58:02 Unidentified Speaker WE HAVE A FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT VIEW OF HOW THE WORLD WORKS, THE MIDDLE EAST WORKS. AND I THINK...
01:58:28 Unidentified Speaker I HOPE YOU ARE RIGHT. I PRAY THAT YOU ARE RIGHT.
01:58:31 Unidentified Speaker I THANK YOU. I BELIEVE YOU WHEN YOU SAY THAT.
01:58:35 Unidentified Speaker THANKS TO DANIEL ELLSBERG AND WILLIAM KRISTOL FOR JOINING US FOR THE LAST TWO HOURS.
01:58:39 Unidentified Speaker AND LATER ON IN THE DAY, AT 5:30 THIS AFTERNOON, EAST COAST

NOTE: The transcript for this program was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.

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