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| TIME | SPEAKER | TEXT |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00:20 |
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NOW FROM THE BRONX, A LOOK AT RACISM IN AMERICA DURING THE 1950'S AND 1960'S AND THE RISE OF THE CIVIL... |
| 00:00:37 |
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I WANT TO SUGGEST THAT INSTEAD OF, AS WE HAVE NOW FOR FAR TOO LONG, ACCORDING TO ME, INSTEAD OF SPEAKING... |
| 00:01:29 |
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THAT IS WRITER AND SOCIAL CRITIC JAMES BALDWIN. TODAY'S C-SPAN AMERICAN WRITERS SERIES BRINGS YOU... |
| 00:02:03 |
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WELL, I THINK BALDWIN WAS DIFFERENT THAN MOST SO-CALLED CIVIL RIGHTS SPOKESPEOPLE IN THAT HE EMPHASIZED,... |
| 00:02:48 |
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WE WANT TO WELCOME YOU TO OUR DISCUSSION OF THE 1950'S AND 1960'S WITH OUR NEXT YEAR, 1963, THE YEAR... |
| 00:03:16 |
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WE SHOULD EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE WHY WE ARE IN THE BRONX. LET'S DO SOME BASIC FACTS ABOUT JAMES BALDWIN.... |
| 00:03:24 |
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HE WAS BORN IN 1924 IN AUGUST AT HARLEM HOSPITAL IN HARLEM, NEW YORK. |
| 00:03:30 |
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HOW DID A KID FROM HARLEM GO TO SCHOOL IN THE BRONX? |
| 00:03:34 |
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WELL, OF COURSE HE DIDN'T GO TO SCHOOL IMMEDIATELY IN THE BROPTION. HE HAD A LIFE IN HARLEM UNTIL HE... |
| 00:04:24 |
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AT WHAT POINT IN HIS LIFE DID JAMES BALDWIN KNOW HE COULD WRITE AND WANTED TO EXPRESS HIMSELF THROUGH... |
| 00:04:32 |
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HE HAD A TEACHER IN PRIMARY SCHOOL. A TEACHER CALLED BILL MILLER, OR RILLA MILLER, SHE. SHE HAD COME... |
| 00:05:26 |
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AND AGAIN, JUST TO GET A QUICK PICTURE OF HIM, HE LIVED UNTIL WHEN? |
| 00:05:32 |
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HE LIVED UNTIL 1987. |
| 00:05:33 |
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AND WHAT WERE HIS YEARS OF GREATEST INFLUENCE, WOULD YOU SAY? |
| 00:05:39 |
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WELL, THAT REMAINS TO BE SEEN, I THINK. I GUESS IF YOU MEAN INFLUENCE AT THE TIME, IT WOULD BE DURING... |
| 00:06:14 |
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LET'S HELP YOU AND REMIND US A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THE COUNTRY AS A WHOLE AT THAT TIME. TO DO THAT,... |
| 00:07:44 |
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IT'S IMPORTANT TO WRECK NIEDZ AT THE BLACK STRUGGLE FOR FREEDOM GOES BACK A COUPLE OF CENTURIES AND... |
| 00:09:18 |
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LET'S TAKE OUR FIRST CALL FROM THE AUDIENCE FROM MINNEAPOLIS. WELCOME TO OUR DISCUSSION OF JAMES BALDWIN.... |
| 00:09:24 |
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HELLO. I'M SO GLAD THAT YOU ARE HONORING JAMES BALDWIN WHO I FEEL LIKE HAS NEVER GOTTEN HIS DUE.... |
| 00:10:06 |
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LET'S START WITH DR. LEEMING. WHAT DOES HE HAVE TO SAY TO US TODAY? |
| 00:10:09 |
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WELL I THINK HE HAS TO SAY TO US TODAY, REALLY, WHAT HE HAD TO SAY THEN. IT'S, IN FACT, A MESSAGE... |
| 00:11:09 |
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ROBIN KELLEY, WHAT DO YOU THINK JAMES BALDWIN SAYS TO US TODAY? |
| 00:11:13 |
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SURE, I THINK TO FOLLOW UP, ONE OF THE BIGGEST MYTHS THAT AMERICA STILL HAS WITH IT IS THE MYTH OF... |
| 00:11:44 |
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IF I COULD ADD TO THAT, ONCE IN A SPEECH AT HARVARD, HE SAID IN ANSWER TO A QUESTION ABOUT THE NEGRO... |
| 00:12:03 |
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OHIO, YOU ARE ON THE AIR. WELCOME. |
| 00:12:08 |
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MY NAME IS GUY DARDEN DARDEN. I'M TRYING TO WRITE A BOOK. I THINK JAMES BALDWIN WAS RIGHT ON THE MONEY... |
| 00:13:51 |
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I'M GOING TO JUMP IN, THANKS. I UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT AND WE GOTGOT A LOT OF CALLERS, SO LET'S HAVE... |
| 00:14:02 |
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WELL, THINK IT'S TRUE. ONE THING THAT'S CERTAINLY TRUE IS THAT THE CALLER HITS ON THE POINT THAT IF... |
| 00:14:26 |
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I WANT TO PICK UP ON FATHERS. WE ARE TALKING ON FATHERS' DAY, AS A MATTER OF FACT. IN ALL OF THE BOOKS... |
| 00:14:44 |
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WELL, I THINK IT DID. I THINK ESPECIALLY AT THAT TIME. IT'S LITTLE DIFFERENT NOW, I MEAN A SINGLE... |
| 00:15:22 |
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LET'S LISTEN TO A LITTLE BIT MORE OF JAMES BALDWIN IN HIS OWN VOICE. I WANT TO TELL YOU THROUGHOUT... |
| 00:16:01 |
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THE AMERICAN IDEA OF PROGRESS PROGRESS, WHEN AMERICANS TALK ABOUT PROGRESS, THEY MEAN HOW FAST I BECOME... |
| 00:17:02 |
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LET'S RETURN TO PHONE CALLS. NEXT IS NEW YORK CITY. YOU ARE ON THE AIR. |
| 00:17:05 |
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YES. HELLO? HELLO? |
| 00:17:09 |
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GO AHEAD, SIR. |
| 00:17:10 |
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YES. HELLO? |
| 00:17:12 |
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SIR, PLEASE GO AHEAD. |
| 00:17:13 |
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| 00:17:14 |
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EXCELLENT. I WANTED TO THANK YOU FOR THIS TIME ON JAMES BALDWIN. WHAT A GENIUS. I APPRECIATE THIS... |
| 00:17:28 |
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THANKS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AND LET'S MOVE ON TO OUR NEXT CALL FROM HAWAII. WELCOME TO OUR CONVERSATION.... |
| 00:17:36 |
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OH, YES. I'M A WRITER, MYSELF. I WRITE PLAYS AND TWO OF MY INFLUENCES ARE MARY VERAKA FROM THE ANGER... |
| 00:18:04 |
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THANK YOU. WOULD YOU, BEFORE YOU ANSWER, TELL US HOW MUCH OF OF HIS LIFE HE SPENT OUTSIDE THE U.S.?... |
| 00:18:10 |
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WELL, THAT WOULD ANSWER THE CALLER. IN FACT, I WOULD SAY HE SPENT FROM 1948 ON, ABOUT HALF OF THE... |
| 00:19:16 |
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I INTRODUCED YOU AS A FRIEND OF HIS. HOW DID THE TWO OF YOU MEET? |
| 00:19:21 |
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WE MET IN A KITCHEN IN ISTANBUL ON DECEMBER 19, 1961. I WENT TO A PARTY IN ISTANBUL WHERE I WAS A... |
| 00:20:18 |
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AND YOUR FRIENDSHIP LASTED HOW MANY YEARS? |
| 00:20:19 |
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WELL THAT NIGHT WE WENT OUT AND WE TALKED ALL NIGHT LONG ABOUT VARIOUS THINGS AND HE TAUGHT SOME MIGHT... |
| 00:20:59 |
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NEXT PHONE CALL IS FROM PHILADELPHIA. YOU ARE ON C-SPAN. GO AHEAD, PLEASE. |
| 00:21:03 |
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YES. MY NAME IS FAITH JIRLES. I USED TO BE A TEACHER IN A UNIVERSITY AND IN TEXAS SOUTHERN UNIVERSITY,... |
| 00:21:58 |
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THANK YOU VERY MUCH. DR. KELLEY, DO YOU USE JAMES BALDWIN'S WORKS IN YOUR CLASSES? |
| 00:22:02 |
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I DO. I USUALLY USE HIS ESSAYS LIKE "THE FIRE NEXT TIME" AND ALSO SOME OF HIS OTHER ESSAYS FROM AN... |
| 00:22:34 |
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NEXT CALL IS FROM LOS ANGELES ANGELES. |
| 00:22:36 |
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HI. MY NAME IS RAFAEL PIZARRO. I'M A WRITER, ALSO. FIRST OF ALL, I WANT TO SALUTE YOU FORYOU FOR... |
| 00:23:21 |
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THANK YOU VERY MUCH. DAVID LEEMING, HOW WAS HE ACCEPTED AT THE TIME? |
| 00:23:25 |
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WELL, THAT'S A DIFFICULT TIME. I THINK THAT HE WAS, IN SOME WAYS, DENIED HIS RIGHTFUL PLACE BECAUSE... |
| 00:24:21 |
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ROBIN KELLEY, LET ME RETURN TO U.S. HISTORY AND POLICY AT THE TIME. IN 1963, IF I HAVE THE DATE RIGHT,... |
| 00:24:32 |
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RIGHT. |
| 00:24:34 |
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COULD YOU TELL US WHAT THE HISTORICAL VIEW OF THE KENNEDY ADMINISTRATION'S RECORD ON CIVIL RIGHTS... |
| 00:24:41 |
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WELL, IN A NUTSHELL, THE KENNEDY ADMINISTRATION WAS VERY AMBIVALENT ABOUT CIVIL RIGHTS. THEY DIDN'T... |
| 00:25:18 |
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WHAT ABOUT THE JOHNSON ADMINISTRATION? |
| 00:25:20 |
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WELL, THE JOHNSON ADMINISTRATION IN SOME WAYS GROWS OUT OF THE ENERGY THAT CAME OUT OF LIKE THE MARCH... |
| 00:26:00 |
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FOR MANY AFRICAN-AMERICANS, IF IT'S POSSIBLE TO GENERALIZE, WHICH ADMINISTRATION IS VIEWED MORE MORE... |
| 00:26:07 |
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THAT'S HARD TO SAY. KENNEDY HAS A MYSTIQUE ABOUT HIM. I MEAN THE FACT THAT HE WAS TRAGICALLY ASSASSINATED... |
| 00:27:09 |
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WE ARE IN THE BRONX THIS AFTERNOON AT THE HIGH SCHOOL WHERE JAMES BALDWIN WENT TO SCHOOL IN THE LATE,... |
| 00:27:32 |
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I WAS WONDERING IF MR. LEEMING COULD ISOLATE AND DEFINE FOR US WHAT, WHICH QUALITIES IN TERMS OF LITERARY... |
| 00:28:05 |
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THANK YOU. |
| 00:28:08 |
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WELL, I THINK BALDWIN'S GREAT TALENT AS AN ESSAYIST, AS I THINK DR. LEWIS JUST MENTIONED, IS HIS ABILITY... |
| 00:30:20 |
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SEATTLE, GO AHEAD, PLEASE. |
| 00:30:22 |
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FIRST OF ALL, I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR THE PIECE THAT YOU ARE PUTTING ON THIS AFTERNOON. I AM IN THE... |
| 00:30:51 |
|
ROBIN KELLEY, WILL YOU TAKE THAT SECOND QUESTION? |
| 00:30:54 |
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THAT'S A TOUGH QUESTION, BECAUSE I THINK ON THE ONE HAND, BALDWIN IS OF A TIME AND PLACE. AND I THINK,... |
| 00:31:59 |
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WHAT DID HE GAIN FROM VISITS ABROAD? |
| 00:32:01 |
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WELL, I THINK I SORT OF ANSWERED THAT BEFORE. WHAT HE GOT WAS THE SPACE TO WRITE. THE SPACE AWAY... |
| 00:32:44 |
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THE BOOK THAT WE ARE FOCUSING ON IS "THE FIRE NEXT TIME" PUBLISHED IN 1963. JUST TO GET A SENSE OF... |
| 00:33:56 |
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THANK YOU. FIRST, I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT I HAVE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO ENJOY ALL OF THE PROGRAMS,... |
| 00:34:09 |
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THANK YOU. |
| 00:34:13 |
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FIRST QUESTION COMES OUT OF BALDWIN'S RELIGIOUS BACKGROUND. IN MY UNDERSTANDING OF HIS WRITING, A... |
| 00:34:42 |
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SOME BIG QUESTIONS. BIG QUESTIONS THERE. LET ME ASK YOU DR. LEEMING TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT RELIGION... |
| 00:34:51 |
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WELL, I THINK THE CALLER PROBABLY KNOWS THAT AT ABOUT THE AGE OF 14, BALDWIN WENT TO VISIT A VERY... |
| 00:36:04 |
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DR. KELLEY, I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO TALK IN A MORE GENERAL SENSE ABOUT THE ROLE OF BLACK CHURCHES... |
| 00:36:13 |
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WELL BLACK CHURCHES WERE THE FOUNDATION. I MEAN THEY WERE THE BASIS FOR ORGANIZATION. THEY WERE --... |
| 00:37:09 |
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THE CALLER'S LAST QUESTION WAS ABOUT SOUTHERN RACIAL POLITICS AT THE TIME. BIG TOPIC. CAN YOU TELL... |
| 00:37:16 |
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ABOUT SOUTHERN RACIAL POLITICS AT THE TIME. IT WAS A POLITICS BASED ON WHITE SUPREMACY THAT WAS ABOUT... |
| 00:37:52 |
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LET'S LOOK AGAIN JUST FOR HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE AT SOME OF THE KEY DATES IN THE AMERICAN CIVIL RIGHTS... |
| 00:38:51 |
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HI. THANK YOU FOR TAKING MY CALL. WHAT WOULD BE MR. BALDWIN'S VIEW REGARDING CIVIL RIGHTS VERSUS ... |
| 00:39:17 |
|
DAVID LEEMING? |
| 00:39:18 |
|
THAT'S A VERY DIFFICULT QUESTION, BUT I THINK THE ANSWER IS QUESTION, THERE IS CERTAINLY A CONNECTION... |
| 00:40:00 |
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BROOKLYN. GOOD AFTERNOON TO YOU. |
| 00:40:02 |
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GOOD AFTERNOON. MY NAME IS CAR LOSE BROWN. I ACTUALLY WENT TO DEWITT CLINTON HIGH SCHOOL SO THANK... |
| 00:41:30 |
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NOT OFFHAND. PERHAPS I SHOULD, BUT I DON'T, OFFHAND. I THINK BALDWIN IS, IN MANY WAYS, VERY MUCH... |
| 00:42:23 |
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DAVID LEEMING, WHAT AND WHEN, BROUGHT JAMES BALDWIN INTO WIDESPREAD PUBLIC CONSCIOUSNESS? |
| 00:42:31 |
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WELL, I SUPPOSE IT WAS REALLY, HE MEAN IF WE ARE TALKING ABOUT REALLY WIDESPREAD PUBLIC CONSCIOUSNESS... |
| 00:43:17 |
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HOW DID HE MAKE IT TO THE COVER OF "TIME" MAGAZINE? |
| 00:43:22 |
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I THINK BECAUSE, PRIMARILY BECAUSE OF THE, I HOPE I'M NOT GETTING INTO TROUBLE IN TERMS OF DATES,... |
| 00:43:40 |
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WHERE DID THE TITLE "THE FIRE NEXT TIME" COME FROM? |
| 00:43:42 |
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WELL, YOU CAN READ THE VERY LAST WORDS OF THE BOOK. |
| 00:43:46 |
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OK, I WILL LET YOU DO THAT. WHY DOESN'T YOU GET THAT READY AND I WILL LIST TON A CALL. |
| 00:43:52 |
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GOOD AFTERNOON. I'M ENJOYING YOUR PRESENTATION ON MR. BALDWIN. AND MY QUESTION IS FOR MR. LEEMING... |
| 00:44:29 |
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OK, WELL I GUESS I CAN START WITH THE END OF END OF "THE FIRE NEXT TIME" WHICH WILL BE A PARTIAL ANSWER... |
| 00:45:13 |
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AS TO MY TIME WITH BALDWIN, AROUND THANKSGIVING TIME, 1987, HIS BROTHER, DAVID, ASKED ME IF I WOULD... |
| 00:46:27 |
|
RIGHT. |
| 00:46:29 |
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NEXT TELEPHONE CALL, WALTER, MARYLAND. |
| 00:46:31 |
|
YES. HELLO? |
| 00:46:34 |
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GO AHEAD, SIR. |
| 00:46:36 |
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MY QUESTION, "THE FIRE NEXT TIME" IS ONE OF THE MOST PROLIFIC ESSAYS OF THE 20TH CENTURY. I LIKE... |
| 00:47:37 |
|
THANKS, ROBIN KELLEY? |
| 00:47:38 |
|
SURE. THINK IT'S A GOOD QUESTION. I THINK THAT HE MEANT IT WITH THE CERTAIN SENSE OF IRONY. BECAUSE... |
| 00:48:17 |
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WELL, I LIKED WHAT HE JUST SAID -- |
| 00:48:20 |
|
DR. KELLEY. |
| 00:48:21 |
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DR. KELLEY. I'M SORRY. BALDWIN USED THAT TERM, IRONICALLY, YES. BUT HE ALSO USEED IT SIMPLY IN RELATION... |
| 00:50:09 |
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LET'S LIST TON JAMES BALDWIN AGAIN IN HIS OWN WORDS. THIS IS A CLIP FROM AN OLD PROGRAM ON NBC. WE... |
| 00:50:25 |
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I LEFT BECAUSE I KNEW VERY WELL THAT ON TUESDAY OR WEDNESDAY, I WOULD ENCOUNTER ONE COP TOO MANY.... |
| 00:50:46 |
|
WHY DID YOU COME HOME? |
| 00:50:49 |
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OH, YOU ASKED ME WHY I LEFT HOME. |
| 00:50:51 |
|
YOU ARE A COMMUTER, THAT'S TRUE. YOU TOLD ME YOU WERE A COMPUTE MUTER. |
| 00:50:56 |
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I WANTED TO SAVE MY LIFE AND MY FAMILY'S LIFE. I'M NOT AN EXPATRIATE IN EXILE. A BLACK CAT IS NOT... |
| 00:51:38 |
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JAMES BALDWIN TALKING ABOUT HIS YEARS AS AN EXPATRIATE. LET'S TAKE OUR NEXT PHONE CALL FROM OAKLAND,... |
| 00:51:48 |
|
YES, I WANTED TO ASK ABOUT HOW BALDWIN, AS A CIVIL RIGHTS LEADER, WAS IMPACTED OR LIMITEDED BY BEING... |
| 00:52:21 |
|
THANKS VERY MUCH. DAVID LEEMING? |
| 00:52:25 |
|
THE ANSWER IS YES, HIS ROLE, LIKE WESTON'S, WAS MARGINALIZED AND LIMITED IN THE MARCH ON WASHINGTON,... |
| 00:53:10 |
|
DR. KELLEY, WOULD YOU TALK ABOUT THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THIS 1963 MARCH ON WASHINGTON? |
| 00:53:15 |
|
SURE. IN SOME WAYS, THE MARCH IN WASHINGTON IS THE MOST VISIBLE LEGACY WE HAVE OF WHAT THE CIVIL ... |
| 00:54:05 |
|
IF YOU WILL BEAR WITH ME, I'M GOING TO ASK YOU VERY BRIEFLY, BECAUSE I KNOW YOU COULD SPEND LOTS OF... |
| 00:54:18 |
|
SOUTHERN CHRISTIAN LEADERSHIP CONFERENCE. IT WAS LED BY DR. KING THAT GREW OUT OF INITIALLY THE MONTGOMERY... |
| 00:54:28 |
|
DR. LEEMING USED SNICK AND CORS. |
| 00:54:31 |
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STUDENT NONVIOLENT COORDINATING COMMITMENT WHICH GREW OUT OF NASHVILLE AND GREENSBORO. NASHVILLE,... |
| 00:54:57 |
|
LET'S LIST TON A CALL FROM MANHATTAN. |
| 00:54:59 |
|
THANK YOU. FIRST THING I WANTED TO SAY I HAD READ MY FAVORITE BOOK AND THE FIRST BOOK I ACTUALLY READ... |
| 00:55:50 |
|
DAVID LEEMING, DO YOU WANT TO TAKE THAT? |
| 00:55:52 |
|
WE COULD TALK ABOUT ALL SORTS OF THINGS. MYTHS' UPWARD MOBILITY WHICH APPLY TO SOME PARTS OF OUR ... |
| 00:56:48 |
|
IT IS TIME FOR US TO TAKE OUR LEAVE OF DAVID LEEMING AND FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE WATCHING OUR PROGRAM... |
| 00:57:15 |
|
WHY SHOULD HE BE STUDIED TODAY? |
| 00:57:17 |
|
WE NEED THE KIND OF LOVE THAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT. NOT HALLMARK CARDS KIND OF LOVE. THE KIND OF LOVE... |
| 00:57:34 |
|
AND IS YOUR BIOGRAPHY OF JAMES BALDWIN WIDELY AVAILABLE TODAY FOR PEOPLE? |
| 00:57:38 |
|
IN LIBRARIES. THERE'S SOME TALK OF IT BEING REPRINTED, BUT IT'S A LITTLE BIT DIFFICULT TO GET RIGHT... |
| 00:57:45 |
|
IT'S CALLED WHAT? |
| 00:57:49 |
|
"JAMES BALDWIN A BIOGRAPHY". |
| 00:57:50 |
|
THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US. I'M GOING TO LEAVE THIS CLASSROOM AND WALK OUTSIDE TO INTRODUCE YOU TO... |
| 00:58:39 |
|
I THINK CULTURALLY, IT GAVE HIM AN ALTERNATIVE TO HARLEM. AND THAT BECAME EXTREMELY IMPORTANT IN HIS... |
| 00:59:02 |
|
MOST OF THE NAMES WERE ALL MALE. MANY OF THOSE NAMES ARE FROM JEWISH FAMILIES. WHAT IS THE RELATIONSHIP... |
| 00:59:15 |
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VERY STRONG. MANY OF HIS PERSONAL FRIENDS WERE JEWISH. ALSO, THE JEWISH INTELLECTUAL CULTURE PLAYED... |
| 00:59:46 |
|
OUR GOAL IS TO UNDERSTAND AMERICAN HISTORY THROUGH WRITERS. YOU ARGUE IN YOUR BOOK THAT BALDWIN IS... |
| 00:59:55 |
|
YEAH. THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND THAT AFRICAN-AMERICAN WRITERS HAVE TYPICALLY OPERATED... |
| 01:01:08 |
|
THE PROTEST WRITING WAS SIGNIFICANT BECAUSE IT BROUGHT WHITE AMERICANS INTO THE FOLD? |
| 01:01:13 |
|
WELL, THE WAY BALDWIN USED IT, YEAH. BALDWIN, HIS PRIMARY AUDIENCE WAS WHITE AMERICA AND LIBERAL ... |
| 01:01:34 |
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ROBIN KELLEY, THE HISTORIAN BASED AT NEW YORK UNIVERSITY WILL BE WITH US FOR THE REST OF OUR PROGRAM... |
| 01:01:53 |
|
HI, THIS PERTAINS TO A COMMENT DR. WASHINGTON MADE BUT IT'S DIRECTED TO DR. KELLEY. OUR PREVIOUS WRITER... |
| 01:02:30 |
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DR. KELLEY, WE NEVER PROMISED YOU THEY WOULD BE SIMPLE QUESTIONS. |
| 01:02:33 |
|
THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION. I THINK THERE ARE A COUPLE OF WAYS TO LOOK AT THIS. ONE, THE FACT THAT BALDWIN... |
| 01:03:50 |
|
NEXT PHONE CALL, SANTA BARBARA FOR OUR TWO GUESTS ON JAMES BALDWIN. |
| 01:03:55 |
|
YES, HELLO. I GREW UP IN THE LATE 1960'S AND HAD YIET QUITE AN IMPRESSION ON ME. FROM WHAT I UNDERSTOOD... |
| 01:05:11 |
|
THANK YOU, ROBERT WASHINGTON. |
| 01:05:12 |
|
YEAH, EXCELLENT QUESTION. IT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT "THE FIRE NEXT TIME" WAS WRITTEN AS A... |
| 01:05:58 |
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ROBIN KELLEY MENTIONED THE HOPEFULNESS OF JAMES BALDWIN'S WRITING. HEHERE'S ONE SENTENCE. AMERICA... |
| 01:06:19 |
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YES, WAYS LISTENING TO THE QUESTION THAT WAS ASKED ABOUT THE INFLUENCE THAT JEWS MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE... |
| 01:06:47 |
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WELL, I, YOU KNOW, IT'S HARD TO TRACK THESE THINGS. I DO THINK THAT WHEN PROFESSOR WASHINGTON TALKED... |
| 01:07:43 |
|
ON OUR PRODUCER IS PAUL BROWN. NEXT CALL IS FROM CALIFORNIA. |
| 01:07:46 |
|
HI. THANK YOU FOR TAKING MY CALL. I WANT TO CON GRAT CONGRATULATE YOU ON YOUR OUTSTANDING WORK WITH... |
| 01:08:18 |
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THANK YOU. FIRST QUESTION WAS IM PACT IN HIS OWN TIME. |
| 01:08:24 |
|
YEAH, I THINK AGAIN, COMING BACK TO THIS POINT IS THAT I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER THAT... |
| 01:09:08 |
|
GRAND RAPIDS, MICHIGAN. |
| 01:09:09 |
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YES. GOOD AFTERNOON. LOVE THE SHOW. SEEN YOU NUMEROUS TIMES AND THIS DIALOGUE IS WONDERFUL THIS ... |
| 01:09:56 |
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THANK YOU VERY MUCH. |
| 01:09:59 |
|
YEAH. I THINK WHAT WE FIND WHEN WE LOOK AT THIS POST-1906'S OF BALDWIN'S CAREER, HE BKS MUCH MORE... |
| 01:10:57 |
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LET ME SUBSITY SUIT THE WORD CONSPIRACY. ITTHERE WAS A REASON. THERE'S A REASON THAT NO ONE WANTS... |
| 01:12:12 |
|
ROBIN KELLEY? |
| 01:12:14 |
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I THINK HE'S ABSOLUTELY ON POINT THERE. BECAUSE HE'S TALKING ABOUT CONTENT OF EDUCATION. AN EDUCATION... |
| 01:12:41 |
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SAN FRANCISCO NEXT IN THE JAMES BALDWIN CONVERSATION. |
| 01:12:43 |
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YES. DR. WASHINGTON ACTUALLY PARTLY ANSWERED ONE OF MY QUESTIONS. I HAVE TWO QUESTIONS AND I PROMISE... |
| 01:13:20 |
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YEAH. I THINK THAT BALDWIN ACTUALLY IF YOU READ HIS ESSAYS THAT YOU SEE SOME INFLUENCE COMING OUT... |
| 01:13:50 |
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THE OTHER ONE WAS RELIGION AGAIN, YES. THAT'S RIGHT. |
| 01:13:54 |
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I JUST THINK RELIGION BECOMES LESS IMPORTANT FOR HIM. I DON'T THINK IT'S A PROBLEM FOR HIS HOMOSECTION... |
| 01:14:05 |
|
HE PUBLISHED MORE THAN 20 BOOKS AND NUMEROUS ESSAYS. HE WAS ALSO A PLAY WRITE, A TEACHER. MANY THINGS.... |
| 01:14:34 |
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I KNOW IT INFLUENCED HIM. |
| 01:14:36 |
|
I I WILL TELL YOU FROM DR. LEEMING'S BIOGRAPHY, HE READ IT SO OFTEN AS A YOUTH HIS MOTHER PUT IT ON... |
| 01:14:58 |
|
I THINK HE RESPECTED LANGSTON HUGHES. THE KIND OF LANGUAGE THAT BALDWIN USES IS THE KIND OF PROSE... |
| 01:15:15 |
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I HAVE TO ASK YOU ABOUT ONE. THAT'S WILLIAM FAULKNER. |
| 01:15:20 |
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YEAH, I THINK BALDWIN HAD LOTS OF PROBLEM WAS FAULKNER. I THINK HE LOTS OF PROBLEMS AND RESERVATIONS... |
| 01:15:55 |
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ROBIN KELLEY, YOU WANT TO PICK UP ON THAT? |
| 01:15:58 |
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OH, I THINK PROFESSOR WASHINGTON SAID IT BEST THAT BALDWIN WAS CRITICAL OF FAULKNER FAULKNER. AND... |
| 01:16:24 |
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FOR OUR FINAL 45 MINUTES, ROBERT WASHINGTON AND I ARE GOING TO WALK INSUED THE LIBRARY WHERE ROBIN... |
| 01:16:36 |
|
HELLO. MY NAME IS RICHARD BAXTER. I'M A MINUTE TIRS IN SUMPTER, SOUTH DAKOTA CAROLINA. I MET JAMES... |
| 01:18:25 |
|
THANKS VERY MUCH. DR. WASHINGTON? |
| 01:18:28 |
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HERE'S AN IMPORTANT QUOTE THAT I THINK RESPONDS TO THIS ISSUE ABOUT CHRISTIANITY. BALDWIN MAKES THE... |
| 01:18:59 |
|
NEXT CALL IS SAN FRANCISCO. |
| 01:19:00 |
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YES. I HAPPENED TO SEE A VERY INTERESTING PHOTOGRAPH A CO-WORKER WHO HAD BEEN A REPORTER DURING THE... |
| 01:20:10 |
|
DO YOU KNOW THE ANSWER? |
| 01:20:12 |
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I CAN ONLY SPEAK GENERALLY BECAUSE I HAVE NEVER ACTUALLY SEEN BALDWIN'S FILE, BUT THERE'S NO QUESTION... |
| 01:20:39 |
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DID YOU HAVE A CHANCE TO EVER LOOK AT THE FILES? |
| 01:20:42 |
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NO, I HAVEN'T. |
| 01:20:43 |
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AND IF PEOPLE ARE INTERESTED IN THE DAVID LEEMING BIOGRAPHY, MR. LEEMING, OUR GUEST, HE DOES HAVE... |
| 01:21:12 |
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MALCOLM X AND I MET HIM YEARS AGO. WHEN MALCOLM WAS DOING A DEBATE WITH A VERY YOUNG SIT-IN STUDENT... |
| 01:22:35 |
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ROBIN KELLEY, I WOULD LIKE TO USE THAT CLIP AS A WAY FOR YOU TO TALK TO OUR AUDIENCE AND EXPLAIN THE... |
| 01:22:54 |
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SURE. THE NATION OF ISLAM'S ORIGINS GO BACK TO 1930'S, BUT IT REALLY CAME INTO BEING IN THE 1950'S.... |
| 01:23:59 |
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JAMES BALDWIN REJECTED THE ENTREATISE. WHY? |
| 01:24:04 |
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HE HAD A VERY INTERESTING POSTURE TOWARD BLACK NATIONALISM IN GENERAL. HE DIDN'T AGREE WITH THEM. ... |
| 01:24:38 |
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IF YOU READ IT TODAY IN THE POST-SCRIPT OF SEPTEMBER 11, DOES IT SPEAK TO YOU THROUGH THE AGES IN... |
| 01:24:47 |
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I THINK THE MESSAGE IS STILL VALID. THINK THE MESSAGE ABOUT THE LACK OF COMMITMENT ON THE PART OF ... |
| 01:25:21 |
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COMING UP IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS, BETTY FREIDAN FOLLOWED BY RUSSEL KIRK AND WE WILL END ON JULY... |
| 01:25:37 |
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YES. THIS QUESTION IS FOR PROFESSOR WASHINGTON AND MR. KELLEY. THIS IS A GREAT HONOR FOR ME BECAUSE... |
| 01:26:31 |
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THANK YOU VERY MUCH. APRSHIATE IT. |
| 01:26:33 |
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HE GAVE -- THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THAT WAS VERY NICE. HE GAVE A WONDERFUL LECTURE AS A SCHOOL TEACHER.... |
| 01:27:23 |
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JAMES BALDWIN BORN IN HARLEM, DIED 1987 IN FRANCE. THE BOOK WE ARE LOOKING AT, "THE FIRE NEXT TIME,"... |
| 01:27:50 |
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THOSE WERE THE FOUNDATION OF LIBERAL INTELLECTUAL POLITICAL CULTURE. WHEN ONE GOES BACK AND LOOKS AT... |
| 01:28:40 |
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A LITTLE EARLIER, YOU SUGGESTED THAT YOU WISH BALDWIN HAD DONE MORE LITERARY CRITICISM. HOW ABOUT... |
| 01:28:49 |
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YEAH, YOU GET MORE POLITICAL CRITICISM OF BALDWIN, UNFORTUNATELY. AND YOU SEE AFTER THE 1960'S, THERE'S... |
| 01:29:09 |
|
SAYS WHOM? |
| 01:29:13 |
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WELL, NORMAN HORWITZ, THE ED TOR OF "COMMENTARY "AND LIBERAL DURING THE 1906'S BECAME CONSERVATIVE.... |
| 01:29:44 |
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WE HAVE A HALF HOUR LEFT TO GO. AS YOU KNOW BY NOW, WE ARE IN THE LIBRARY OF DEWITT CLINTON HIGH SCHOOL... |
| 01:30:12 |
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HELLO AND THANK YOU. OUR MEDIATOR MENTIONED POST SEPTEMBER 11. THAT KIND OF GOES ALONG WITH MY QUESTION... |
| 01:31:00 |
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ROBIN KELLEY? |
| 01:31:03 |
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ANSWER THAT QUESTION. WELL, WHY IT EXI.S, WHY IT PERSISTS. THAT'S A DIFFICULT QUESTION TO ANSWER... |
| 01:32:11 |
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LET ME PUT MY WATER DOWN TO ASK A SOCIOLOGIST POINT OF VIEW OF THAT QUESTION. |
| 01:32:17 |
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LET ME KIND OF APPROACH IT A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY. THAT'S SUCH A HUGE QUESTION. THE POINT I THINK... |
| 01:33:27 |
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WHERE WOULD YOU PUT HIM GIVEN THAT THOUGHT ON THE POLITICAL |
| 01:33:30 |
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TODAY? I THINK, THINK TODAY, WELL, I THINK HE WOULD CERTAINLY BE VERY DISAPPOINTED, BUT I THINK IN... |
| 01:34:08 |
|
BLOOMFIELD HILLS, MICHIGAN. WELCOME TO YOU. |
| 01:34:10 |
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THANK YOU. FIRST OF ALL, I AM REALLY ENJOYING THIS PROGRAM. BUT IN REGARD TO BALDWIN'S CHRISTIANITY,... |
| 01:34:52 |
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WHO WANTS TO TAKE THAT? |
| 01:34:54 |
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WELL, I KNOW THAT IN HIS ESSAYS, HE TALKS ABOUT, AFTER STARTING HERE AT DEWITT CLINTON HIGH SCHOOL,... |
| 01:35:36 |
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THERE'S A GREAT DEAL IN "THE FIRE NEXT TIME" ABOUT HIS EXPERIENCE AS A PREACHER AT THE AGE OF 14.... |
| 01:36:33 |
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HI. I WOULD LIKE TO SAY WHAT A GREAT FATHER'S DAY GIFT THIS IS AND I WOULD LIKE TO, FOR BOTH DR.... |
| 01:38:07 |
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THANK YOU. YEAH, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION. AND AS LONG AS WE HAVE PATRIARCHY AND HOMO PHOBIA, WE WILL... |
| 01:38:46 |
|
ANY THOUGHTS ON THAT? |
| 01:38:47 |
|
THE ONLY THOUGHT IS PROBABLY NOT A VERY OPTIMISTIC ONE OR, PERHAPS, IT IS, AFRICAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY... |
| 01:39:24 |
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IF JAMES BALDWIN WAS ONE OF THE BETTER-KNOWN NAMES IN THE COUNTRY OF WRITERS WORKING TOWARD SOCIAL... |
| 01:39:38 |
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OH, THAT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION. NOW, I WILL MENTION RAVEL RALPH ELLISON. IT'S A CONTRAST. HE... |
| 01:40:30 |
|
FREEPORT, MAINE. GOOD AFTERNOON TO YOU. |
| 01:40:32 |
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GOOD AFTERNOON. THIS IS A GREAT SHOW AND I MIGHT COMMENTED THAT I I WAS IN THE CLASS OF 1943 AT DEWITT... |
| 01:42:03 |
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THANKS HAVE VERY MUCH. WHEN HE WAS AT SCHOOL HERE AT DEWITT CLINTON HIGH SCHOOL, HE WAS THE EDITOR... |
| 01:42:13 |
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YEAH. I THINK YOU ARE QUITE RIGHT AND AS I POINTED OUT EARLIER, THESE EARLY FRIENDSHIPS REALLY BEGAN... |
| 01:43:04 |
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LET ME SHOW A CLIP FIRST AND WE WILL COME BACK TO YOU. MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN HEAR WHAG STUDENTS AT... |
| 01:43:14 |
|
WHEN IT SAYS LONG BEFORE THE NEGRO CHILD PERCEIVES A DIFFERENCE AND EVEN BEFORE HE UNDERSTANDS IT,... |
| 01:44:03 |
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WE CAN SENSE THE URGENCY IN BALDWIN'S STATEMENT HERE IN THE BOOK BECAUSE FOR EXAMPLE, WE KNOW ABOUT... |
| 01:44:37 |
|
I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU TO RAY PULTON CIRCUMSTANCES WHO IS THE TEACHER HERE AT THE HIGH SCHOOL AND... |
| 01:44:53 |
|
YEAH, I WANTED TO FOLLOW UP ON SOMETHING PROFESSOR WASHINGTON SAID. WE HAVE TO THINK OF THE WHITE... |
| 01:45:36 |
|
THE CENTER FOR ALL OF THIS WAS NEW YORK? |
| 01:45:37 |
|
NEW YORK. ABSOLUTE LIE NEXT CALL, SAN FRANCISCO. |
| 01:45:41 |
|
YES. WHAT DO YOU THINK JAMES BALDWIN WOULD DO ABOUT THE LACK OF FOCUS FROM THE BLACK COMMUNITY AND... |
| 01:46:37 |
|
THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I KNOW SHE THESE SPEK LA TIF QUESTIONS ARE ALWAYS A CHALLENGE FOR ACADEMICS.... |
| 01:46:42 |
|
I DON'T KNOW WHAT HE WOULD SAY, BUT I DO KNOW THAT HE WOULD SEE IT AS NOT JUST A BLACK PROBLEM BUT... |
| 01:46:50 |
|
DR. WASHINGTON? |
| 01:46:51 |
|
I AGREE. I AGREE. |
| 01:46:56 |
|
AT THE SAME TIME THAT JAMES BALDWIN WAS COMING INTO PROMINENCES AS A SOCIAL CRITIC, THE VIETNAM WAR... |
| 01:47:16 |
|
THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT HE WAS OPPOSED TO WAR, BUT I DON'T THINK HE ALLOWED HIMSELF TO BE DEFLECTED... |
| 01:47:43 |
|
JAMES BALDWIN LEFT ESSENTIALLY FOR GOOD IN THE EARLY 1970'S, FOLLOW FOLLOWING THE ASSASSINATION OF... |
| 01:48:01 |
|
BASICALLY, IT'S SEEN AS A TURNING POINT IN THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT. A PERIOD WHEN THE FOCUS MOVED... |
| 01:48:48 |
|
ABOUT NINE MINTS LEFT IN OUR CONVERSATION ABOUT THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT IN THE UNITED STATES. JAMES... |
| 01:48:58 |
|
THANK YOU. I'M A STUDENT AT FLORIDA STATE UNIVERSITY. I RECENTLY READ A BOOK CALLED "LOSING THE RACE... |
| 01:49:49 |
|
WELL, THINK IN A NUTSHELL, THE BOOK ITSELF HAS ITS LIMITATIONS. IT'S BASED A LOT ON INNUENDO AND ON... |
| 01:51:07 |
|
CALIFORNIA FOR OUR TWO GUESTS. |
| 01:51:08 |
|
I AM INTERESTED IN BALDWIN'S DEALINGS AND HIS PERSPECTIVE ON THE LATE 1970'S AND THE 1980'S WHEN HE... |
| 01:51:41 |
|
ROBERT WASHINGTON? |
| 01:51:43 |
|
YEAH, MY ONLY COMMENT WAS THAT I THINK BALDWIN JUST BECAME A LOT MORE DISILLUSIONED AND CYNICAL, WHICH... |
| 01:52:08 |
|
ROBERT WASHINGTON HAS BEEN TEACHING AT BRENMORE, DAIRY SAY IT, FOR 33 YEARS. THIS IS AMONG HIS POSSIBLE... |
| 01:52:20 |
|
ABOUT SIX YEARS. |
| 01:52:22 |
|
MANY PEOPLE HAVE BEEN READERS OF YOUR WORKS. HOW MANY HAVE YOU WRIT SNN. |
| 01:52:25 |
|
ABOUT FIVE BOOKS. |
| 01:52:26 |
|
YOU HAVE ONE IN THE WORKS |
| 01:52:27 |
|
YES. I'M WRITING ON THELONIUS MONK? OH, THE GREAT COMPOSER. I THOUGHT THE WHOLE WORLD KNEW OF HIM.... |
| 01:52:41 |
|
MINNESOTA, YOU ARE NEXT. |
| 01:52:43 |
|
HOW ARE YOU DOING? HELLO? ARE YOU THERE? |
| 01:52:47 |
|
YES, YES, SIR. PLEASE GO AHEAD. |
| 01:52:50 |
|
HIEM 35 YEARS OLD AND I LIVE IN AN ALL-WHITE COMMUNITY AND I READ A LOT OF JAMES BALDWIN'S BOOKS AND... |
| 01:53:19 |
|
THANK YOU. |
| 01:53:21 |
|
I MADE THE COMMENT EARLIER THAT WE AREN'T A MONOLITH AND I THINK THAT WE FIND AFRICAN-AMERICANS ARE... |
| 01:53:53 |
|
AS JAMES BALDWIN ROSE TO NATIONAL CONSCIOUSNESS IN THE 1960'S, IT MIRRORED THE RISE OF TELEVISION... |
| 01:54:07 |
|
WELL, HE WAS AN EXTRAORDINARILY ELOQUENT SPEAKER SO THAT WHENEVER HE APPEARED ON T.V., HE HAD SUCH... |
| 01:54:34 |
|
WE WILL TAKE ONE MORE CALL. WE HAVE ABOUT THREE MINUTES LEFT. WE CAN GET THAT ONE READY. YOU HAVE... |
| 01:54:41 |
|
SURE. IT CHANGED THE MOVEMENT BECAUSE IT BROUGHT INTO PEOPLE'S LIVING ROOMS THE KIND OF VIOLENCE THAT... |
| 01:54:49 |
|
OUR NEXT TELEPHONE CALL IS FROM BRENTWOOD AND IT'S NOT MOVING FAST ENOUGH BUT WHERE ARE YOU CALLING... |
| 01:54:55 |
|
I'M CALLING FROM LONG ISLAND. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TAKING MY CALL. I WANT TO THANK YOU FIRST FOR ... |
| 01:55:23 |
|
WE HAVE A BAD CONNECTION THERE WITH YOU, BUT YOU DID SPEAK ABOUT RALPH ELLISON. |
| 01:55:27 |
|
YEAH. I HAVE NEVER ENCOUNTERED ANY COMMENTS BY BALDWIN ON ELLISON. SO I DON'T KNOW. MY ASSUMPTION... |
| 01:55:43 |
|
WE ARE JUST ABOUT OUT OF TIME AND JUST TO WRAP THIS ALL UP FOR PEOPLE, IT'S 1963, THE "THE FIRE NEXT... |
| 01:55:58 |
|
IN THE CHANGE IN THE UNITED STATES? I THINK JAMES BALDWIN WAS NEVER A CIVIL RIGHTS LEADER. AND THIS... |
| 01:56:29 |
|
I SEE THAT AS SOMEONE WHO LEADS AN ORGANIZATION WHO PARTICIPATES IN THE MOVEMENT. HE WAS A WRITER... |
| 01:56:44 |
|
YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE TIME PERIOD WE ARE LOOKING AT THE EARLY 1960'S AND JAMES BALDWIN'S ROLE IN AMERICAN... |
| 01:56:56 |
|
BALDWIN IS A VERY PARADOXICAL SORT OF FIGURE. BECAUSE THERE'S ONE SENSE IN WHICH, AFTER HE LEFT HARLEM,... |
| 01:57:34 |
|
THANKS TO OUR THREE GUESTS, DAVID LEEMING, WHO IS JAMES BALDWIN'S BIOGRAPHER, ROB ROBIN KELLEYY AN... |
| 01:58:04 |
|
A VERY BRUTAL THING MUS BE SAID. MUST BE SAID. THE INTENTIONS OF THIS MELANCHOLY COUNTED TREE AS... |
NOTE: The transcript for this program was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.