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| 00:00:16 |
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THIS WEEK ON BOOK NOTES, OUR GUEST IS DIANE RAVITCH, ROFRS, PROFESSOR AND POLICY ANALYST DURING THE... |
| 00:00:39 |
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DIANE RAVITCH, AUTHOR OF "LEFT BACK, A CENTURY OF FAILED SCHOOL REFORMS." ARE THERE -- I WANT TO USE... |
| 00:00:59 |
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WHAT KINDS OF SCHOOLS? |
| 00:01:00 |
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ANY SCHOOL. IN POLITICS RIGHT NOW, THERE'S A LOT OF TALK ABOUT EDUCATION AND A LOT OF STATEMENTS BEING... |
| 00:01:11 |
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WELL, THE FIRST THING ONE WOULD SAY AS A GENERALITY, THERE'S A BROADER RANGE OF SCHOOLS TODAY. WE... |
| 00:02:33 |
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WHO'S THE MOST IMPORTANT WRITER OR PHILOSOPHER IN HISTORY ABOUT EDUCATION, FROM YOUR STANDPOINT? |
| 00:02:41 |
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JOHN DEWEY. HE WAS VERY, VERY IMPORTANT, HAD A HUGE INFLUENCE, BOTH FOR IF GOOD AND FOR ILL. |
| 00:02:51 |
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WHAT WAS GOOD ABOUT HIS PHILOSOPHY? |
| 00:02:54 |
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WELL, I CAN'T FIND HIS PHILOSOPHY IN GENERAL -- I HAVE TWO SHELVES AT HOME WITH HIS BOOKS. I DID... |
| 00:04:03 |
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THIS MAY NOT WORK, BUT WHICH OF THE TWO PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES WOULD HAVE DEWEY AS THEIR ADVISOR?... |
| 00:04:12 |
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NEITHER OF THEM. HE WAS A SOCIALIST AND WOULD NOT BE HAPPY WITH EITHER OF THEM. HE PRIMARILY STOOD... |
| 00:05:27 |
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WHEN DID JOHN DEWEY LIVE? |
| 00:05:30 |
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DEWEY DIED, I THINK, IN 194948. HE WAS BORN IN 1859. HE HAD A VERY LONG LIFE AND LIVED TO SEE LOTS... |
| 00:05:56 |
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IF WE FOUND HIM IN A DEBATE WHO WOULD BE DIRECTLY OPPOSITE AND OPPOSED TO HIM DURING THAT TIME, WHO... |
| 00:06:08 |
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PROBABLY WILLIAM TORREY HARRIS WHO WAS COMMISSIONER OF EDUCATION. HE BELIEVED THAT SUBJECT MATTER... |
| 00:06:49 |
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YOU WENT TO SCHOOL WHERE? |
| 00:06:51 |
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HOUSTON, TEXAS? |
| 00:06:52 |
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ELEMENTARY SCHOOL? |
| 00:06:55 |
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PUBLIC SCHOOL ALL THE WAY THROUGH -- MONTROSE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL -- AND I DON'T THINK ANY OF THE SCHOOLS... |
| 00:07:06 |
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WHAT DO YOU REMEMBER ABOUT YOUR HOUSTON EDUCATION? |
| 00:07:11 |
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THERE WAS -- I HAD SOME WONDERFUL TEACHERS, AND I HAD SOME TERRIBLE TEACHERS. WE ALSO HAD RACIALLY... |
| 00:07:49 |
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HOW WAS IT DECIDED YOU WOULD BE COLLEGE BOUND? |
| 00:07:52 |
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PROBABLY TESTS. THEY GAVE LOTS OF TESTS, IQ AND APTITUDE TESTS, TO TRACK KIDS. WHAT I FOUND IN MY... |
| 00:17:31 |
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EXCUSE ME -- IS THERE MUCH DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE A.C.T. AND S.A.T. |
| 00:17:37 |
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THE S.A.T. TRADITIONALLY HAS BEEN A TEST OF VERBAL MATH. AND THE MATH IS RIGOROUS. THE A.C.T. IS MAINLY... |
| 00:17:57 |
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BACK TO HOUSTON. WHAT DID YOUR PARENTS DO FOR A LIVING? |
| 00:18:04 |
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LIKE JOE LIEBERMAN'S PARENTS, THEY RAN SMALL LIQUOR STORES AND WORKED FROM EARLY MORNING UNTIL LATE... |
| 00:18:31 |
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WHO WAS YOUR BEST TEACHER AND WHY? |
| 00:18:34 |
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MY HOME ROOM TEACHER AND SHE WAS ALSO MY ENGLISH TEACHER. I CORRESPONDED TO HER UNTIL SHE DIED IN... |
| 00:20:41 |
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SURE. I HAD A SOCIAL STUDIES TEACHER WHO ALSO TAUGHT ME ENGLISH AND SOCIAL STUDIES, NELDA DAVIS, ... |
| 00:22:24 |
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YOU KEEP SAYING, DON'T GO WITH THE FLOW. WHEN DID IT CHANGE, WHO CHANGED IT AND HOW WIDE SPREAD IS... |
| 00:22:35 |
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THIS IS WHAT MY BOOK IS ABOUT. I WANTED TO UNDERSTAND HOW IT CHANGED. THERE WAS KIND OF A COMMON SENSE,... |
| 00:29:44 |
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BACK TO WELLESLEY AND TELL US ABOUT A PROFESSOR OR TWO THERE THAT HAD AN IMPACT ON YOU AND WHY. |
| 00:29:51 |
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AT WELLESLEY, I HAD A LOT OF EXTRAORDINARY TEACHERS. THEY CARED MIGHTILY ABOUT, I DON'T KNOW, INTELLECTUAL... |
| 00:30:59 |
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YOU MENTIONED COLUMBIA AND TALK A LOT IN YOUR BOOK ABOUT TEACHERS' COLLEGES. WHAT WAS IT AND WHAT IMPACT... |
| 00:31:09 |
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IT WAS WHERE I TOOK A LOT OF EDUCATION COURSES. MY PERSONAL MENTOR WAS THE GREAT PROFESSOR THERE,... |
| 00:33:30 |
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LET ME FIRST ASK YOU, IN YOUR OPINION AND FAIRLY BRIEFLY, WHAT'S THE STATE OF AMERICAN EDUCATION?... |
| 00:33:37 |
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I THINK WE'RE GOING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. I THINK SINCE THAT "NATION AT RISK" REPORT IN 1983, THE... |
| 00:34:10 |
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I STARTED TO ASK YOU, YOU HEAR A LOT IN POLITICAL DISCUSSION THAT EDUCATION IS HORRIBLE AND A LOT... |
| 00:34:28 |
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I'M NOT ONE OF THE PEOPLE THAT SAYS THINGS ARE SO TERRIBLE. I DON'T SAY THAT. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT... |
| 00:35:40 |
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ANY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE |
| 00:35:43 |
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ABSOLUTELY. 30 YEARS AGO, WE TOOK MORE KIDS THROUGH HIGH SCHOOL GRADUATION THAN ANY OTHER COUNTRY... |
| 00:37:04 |
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WHERE DO YOU LIVE AND WHAT DO YOU DO NOW? |
| 00:37:07 |
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I LIVE IN NEW YORK AND I'M RECOVERING FROM WRITING THIS BOOK. I PLAN TO RECOVER MORE AND PERHAPS DO... |
| 00:37:38 |
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WHAT BOOK IS THIS FOR YOU? |
| 00:37:41 |
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I THINK IT'S THE 16TH BUT I'M NOT SURE. I'VE WRITTEN A LOT OF BOOKS. |
| 00:37:45 |
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WHAT'S THE IMPORTANCE OF THIS BOOK COMPARED TO ALL THE OTHERS? |
| 00:37:50 |
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I'D SAY THIS BOOK IS THE SUMMATION OF THE THINGS I'VE LEARNED OVER 30 YEARS IN THIS PROFESSION, AND... |
| 00:38:13 |
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I'VE GOT A REVIEW I KNOW YOU HAVE NOT SEEN FROM THE LOS ANGELES "LOS ANGELES TIMES" BY HERB EGALITARIAN.... |
| 00:43:43 |
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YOU SAID YOU GOT A PH.D. FROM COLUMBIA. WHAT HAPPENED THEN IN YOUR LIFE? |
| 00:43:49 |
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I WROTE A BOOK WHICH CAME OUT ABOUT THE SAME TIME I GOT MY DOCTORATE, "THE GREAT SCHOOL WARS," A HISTORY... |
| 00:44:33 |
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WHAT ABOUT CALIFORNIA? |
| 00:44:36 |
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I WAS INVITED BY THE SUPERINTENDENT OF SCHOOLS, BILL HONIG. IN THE MID 1980'S, I CAME AS AN INVITED... |
| 00:45:09 |
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YOU LIVED IN NEW YORK CITY ALL YOUR LIFE, OTHER THAN HUES TAN? |
| 00:45:13 |
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RIGHT. |
| 00:45:16 |
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AND YOU GOT INVOLVED EARLY IN POLITICS. DID YOUR POLITICS CHANGE THEN? |
| 00:45:22 |
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WELL, IN THE 1968 CAMPAIGN, I WAS DISHEARTENED BY THE IMPACT FROM THE LEFT ON HUMPHREY. I HAD AN EXPERIENCE... |
| 00:46:09 |
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WHAT WAS YOUR JOB? |
| 00:46:12 |
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ASSISTANT SECRETARY IN CHARGE OF EDUCATION RESEARCH IN THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION. |
| 00:46:17 |
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WHAT'S YOUR REACTION WHEN YOU HAD THE GINGRICH GROUP SAYING LET'S ABOLISH THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION?... |
| 00:46:27 |
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THAT DID NOT HAPPEN WHEN I WAS THERE. I WAS WORKING FOR LAMAR ALEXANDER. AFTER I LEFT AND PEOPLE WERE... |
| 00:47:23 |
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WHAT'S THE FEDERAL ROLE? |
| 00:47:26 |
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MAINLY TO HELP DISADVANTAGED KIDS AND ALSO PROVIDE ACCESS TO COLLEGE EDUCATION. THE G.I. BILL WAS... |
| 00:47:51 |
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WHAT'S YOUR REACTION WHEN YOU HEAR THE PRESIDENT SAY THERE SHOULD BE MORE TEACHERS IN THE CLASSROOM... |
| 00:48:02 |
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I BELIEVE IN SMALLER CLASS SIZE. I THINK AS A PARENT, I KNOW THAT'S BETTER THAN LARGE CLASSES. BUT... |
| 00:49:07 |
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YOU MENTIONED ALBERT SCHENKER IN YOUR BOOK. |
| 00:49:12 |
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I WAS A GREAT FRIEND AND ADMIRER OF AL, THE LEADER FOR MANY YEARS OF THE AMERICAN FEDERATION OF TEACHERS.... |
| 00:50:18 |
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WHEN DID THE FIRST TEACHERS' GROUP UNIONIZE? |
| 00:50:23 |
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THE A.F.T. STARTED UNIONIZING IN THE EARLY PART OF THE CENTURY, AND NEW YORK CITY WAS ONE OF THE EARLIEST.... |
| 00:50:45 |
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THE A.F.T. IS CLOSE TO A MILLION TEACHERS? |
| 00:50:47 |
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RIGHT. AND THE N.E.A. IS ABOUT TWO |
| 00:50:50 |
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IT WAS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE ORGANIZATIONS? |
| 00:50:53 |
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NOT A LOT AT THIS POINT. SIZE WOULD BE THE BIG ONE AND THE FACT THAT THE A.F.T. IS MAINLY URBAN AND... |
| 00:51:16 |
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ARE ALL TEACHERS DEMOCRATS? |
| 00:51:18 |
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NO, I DON'T THINK SO. I WOULD SAY THE UNIONS ARE LARGELY DEMOCRATIC BECAUSE EDUCATION IS RUN BY THE... |
| 00:51:38 |
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IS IT A GOOD IDEA, IN YOUR OPINION, THAT THE N.E.A. AND A.F.T. ENDORSE A CANDIDATE IN THE PRESIDENTIAL... |
| 00:51:48 |
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THEY ARE ORGANIZATIONS AND HAVE A WANT TO DO WHAT THEY WANT TO DO. IN MY HEART OF HEARTS, I WISH THEY... |
| 00:51:59 |
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YOU MENTIONED A LOT IN YOUR BOOK, ESPECIALLY IN THE CONCLUSION, ABOUT TELEVISION AND ITS IMPACT AND... |
| 00:52:11 |
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AS A PARENT AND ALSO FROM STUDIES AND TALKING TO LOTS OF OTHER PARENTS AND CHILDREN, TELEVISION HAS... |
| 00:53:01 |
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WHY DO YOU THINK THAT'S THE CASE? |
| 00:53:04 |
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WRITERS HAVE SAID THAT THE GENERAL VIEWERSHIP IS NOT SMART OR EDUCATED AND YOU HAVE TO WRITE FOR THEM.... |
NOTE: The transcript for this program was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.
