Well, Katie, it's a terrific question.

And we have a difficult situation in Pakistan. I believe that

part of the reason we have a difficult situation is because we made a

bad judgment going into Iraq in the first place when we hadn't

finished the job of hunting down bin Laden and crushing al Qaeda.

So what happened was we got distracted, we diverted resources, and

ultimately bin Laden escaped, set up base camps in the mountains of

Pakistan in the northwest provinces there.

They are now raiding our troops in Afghanistan, destabilizing the

situation. They're stronger now than at any time since 2001. And

that's why I think it's so important for us to reverse course because

that's the central front on terrorism. They are plotting to kill

Americans right now. As Secretary Gates, the Defense secretary, said,

the war against terrorism began in that region, and that's where it

will end.

So part of the reason I think it's so important for us to end the

war in Iraq is to be able to get more troops into Afghanistan, put

more pressure on the Afghan government to do what it needs to do,

eliminate some of the drug trafficking that's funding terrorism.

But I do believe that we have to change our policies with

Pakistan. We can't coddle, as we did, a dictator, give him billions

of dollars, and then he's making peace treaties with the Taliban and

militants. What I have said is we're going encourage democracy in

Pakistan, expand our non-military aid to Pakistan so that they have

more of a stake in working with us, but insisting that they go after

these militants.

And if we have Osama bin Laden in our sights and the Pakistani

government is unable or unwilling to take them out, then I think that

we have to act, and we will take them out.

We will kill bin Laden. We will crush al Qaeda. That has to be our

biggest national security priority.

Well, Katie, thank you.

You know, my hero is a guy named Teddy Roosevelt. Teddy

Roosevelt used to say, walk softly -- talk softly but carry a big

stick. Senator Obama likes to talk loudly. In fact, he said he wants

to announce that he's going to attack Pakistan. Remarkable.

You know, if you are, if you are a country and you're trying to

gain the support of another country, then you want to do anything you

can that they would act in a cooperative fashion.

When you announce that you're going to launch an attack into

another country, it's pretty obvious that you have the effect that it

had in Pakistan. It turns public opinion against us.

Now, let me just go back with you very briefly. We drove the

Russians out, with the Afghan freedom fighters, drove the Russians out

of Afghanistan. And then we made a most serious mistake.

We washed our hands of Afghanistan. The Taliban came back in; al

Qaeda. And we then had the situation that required us to conduct the

Afghan War.

Now, our relations with Pakistan are critical, because the border

areas are being used as safe havens by the Taliban and al Qaeda and

other extremist organizations.

And we have to get their support.

Now, General Petraeus had a strategy, the same strategy, very

different because of the conditions and the situation, but the same

fundamental strategy that succeeded in Iraq. And that is, to get the

support of the people. We need to help the Pakistani government go

into Waziristan, where I visited, a very rough country, and get the

support of the people and get them to work with us and turn against

the cruel Taliban and others, and by working and coordinating our

efforts together, not threatening to attack them, but working with

them, and where necessary, use force, but talk softly, but carry a big

stick.

Senator McCain --

If we're going to have follow-ups, then I will want

follow-ups as well.

Be fine with me.

Be fine with me.

All right, let's have a follow-up.

Just a quick follow-up, because I think this is

important.

I'm just the hired help here, so, I mean --

(laughter).

Thank you very much. (Laughs.)

Tom, if -- if we're going to go back and forth, I

then -- I'd like to have equal time to go -- to respond to --

-- to -- to this.

I mean, not true. Not true. I have obviously

supported those efforts that the United States had to go in

militarily, and I have opposed those that I didn't think so.

I understand what it's like to send young Americans into harm's

way. I say -- I was joking with a veteran -- I hate to even go into

this -- I was joking with an old veteran friend who joked with me

about Iran.

But the point is that I know how to handle these, these, these crises.

And Senator Obama, by saying that he would attack Pakistan -- look at

the context of his words.

I'll get Osama bin Laden, my friends. I'll get him. I know how

to get him. I'll get him no matter what. And I know how to do it.

But I'm not going to telegraph my punches, which is what Senator Obama

did.

And I'm going to act responsibly as I have acted responsibly

throughout my military career and throughout my career in the United

States Senate. And we have fundamental disagreements about the use of

military power and how you do it. And you just saw it in response to

previous questions.