| 00:00:01 | THANK YOU, AND IF YOU COULD TRY TO DO IT IN NO MORE THAN 50 MINUTES. |
| 00:00:06 | >> I WILL TRY. |
| 00:00:09 | I NEED TO START OFF BY MAKING IT CLEAR THAT THE OPINIONS OF ALL PRESENTED HERE ARE MY OWN. |
| 00:00:15 | THEY DO NOT REFLECT THOSE OF THE NAVAL WAR COLLEGE OR OF THE U. |
| 00:00:20 | S. GOVERNMENT. |
| 00:00:21 | DMITRI OPENED OUR SESSION BY TALKING ABOUT DIFFERENCES BETWEEN PERCEPTION AND REALITY AND TO ADD TO THAT, PERCEPTIONS CAN HARDEN INTO REALITY. |
| 00:00:34 | STARTING BY WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED IN THE CATHEDRAL OF CHRIST THE SAVIOR IS PROBABLY NOW LESS IMPORTANT THAN HOW IT IS PERCEIVED, AND THAT HAS BECOME THE NEW REALITY. |
| 00:00:44 | THAT HELPS US TO LOOK AT WHAT THE IMPACT OF THIS INCIDENT, SECOND TRIAL, AND FALLOUT WILL BE, BUT INSIDE RUSSIA, BUT ALSO TO LOOK AT HOW IT IMPACTS THE U. |
| 00:00:58 | S.-RUSSIA RELATIONSHIP AS A WHOLE. |
| 00:01:00 | DMITRI ASKED ME TO TALK ABOUT THEIR ROLE OF THE CHURCHM AND THE QUESTIONS OF CIVIL SOCIETY THAT ARE ASSOCIATED WITH IT. |
| 00:01:10 | WE HAVE SEEN SOMETHING THAT IS NOT UNIQUE TO RUSSIA. |
| 00:01:14 | NATIONAL CHURCHES THAT 20 YEARS AGO WERE HAILED AS THE PRESERVERS PRE-COMMUNIST IDENTITY, HAILED AS THE CONSCIENCE OF THE NATION, THERE HAS BEEN A SEA CHANGE IN HOW SEGMENTS OF SOCIETY PERCEIVE THE NATIONAL CHURCH. |
| 00:01:30 | THIS IS A PROCESS GOING ON IN POLAND. |
| 00:01:32 | IT IS GONE ON INTO ROMANIA, HUNGARY, WHERE THE LARGE INSTITUTIONAL NATIONAL CHURCH, WHICH 20 YEARS WAS SEEN AS A VICTIM OF COMMUNISM, IS INCREASINGLY SEEN BY SOME IN SOCIETY AS A NEW HARBINGER OF AUTHORITARIANISM THAT THEY WANT TO IMPOSE ANOTHER PARTY SYSTEM, THEY WANT TO TAKE AWAY INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY, THEY WANT TO IMPOSE A SOCIAL ORDER. |
| 00:01:57 | WE HAVE SEEN WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN POLAND BUT DRAMATIC DROPS IN CHURCH ATTENDANCE FROM 20 YEARS AGO, THE IDEA THAT POLAND WAS ONE OF THE MOST CATHOLIC NATIONS, AND NOW IT IS APPROACHING A EUROPEAN STANDARD. |
| 00:02:11 | PEOPLE ARE LESS RELIGIOUS AND WHERE THERE IS MORE RESISTANCE NOW TO THE IDEA THAT THE CHURCH SHOULD HAVE MORE OF A SAY IN HOW SOCIETY IS RUN AND ORGANIZE STREET IN THAT REGARD, WHAT IS HAPPENING IN RUSSIA IS NOT UNIQUE TO EASTERN EUROPE. |
| 00:02:27 | WHAT WE SEE THAT IS MORE UNIQUE FOR RUSSIA IS THIS WAS A TEST OF SOME OF THE CHURCH'S CLAIMS TO LEAD CIVIL SOCIETY IN RUSSIA. |
| 00:02:39 | ORTHODOX SPOKESMEN FOR THE LAST NUMBER OF YEARS HAVE ROUTINELY CITED A FIGURE THAT 74% OF THE CITIZENS OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION ARE ORTHODOX CHRISTIANS. |
| 00:02:50 | THE LATE PATRIARCH WAS VERY CAREFUL IN NEVER BE IN A POSITION WHERE THE LOYALTY OF THAT 74% WAS GOING TO BE TESTED. |
| 00:03:00 | WAS IT REALLY 74%, OR WAS THE NUMBER: TO BE LOWER? |
| 00:03:06 | IF WE LOOK AT DEFINITIONS OF ACTIVE CHURCH MEMBERSHIP, WHICH WOULD BE YOU ATTENDED SERVICES ON A REGULAR BASIS, MAYBE NOT EVERY SUNDAY, BUT YOU HAVE SOME FAMILIARITY WITH THE DOCTRINE AND DISCIPLINE OF THE CHURCH, INSTEAD OF 74%, WE'RE LOOKING FROM 2% TO 10% OF RUSSIAN SOCIETY. |
| 00:03:27 | THIS MAKES IT THE LARGEST CIVIL SOCIETY ACTOR BECAUSE EVEN AT 2% OF THE POPULATION IN TERMS OF THE STATISTICS CITED IN TERMS OF PEOPLE GO EVERY SUNDAY, THAT IS A LARGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE. |
| 00:03:40 | IT IS NOT 74%, AND IT MEANS YOUR ABILITY TO CLAIM YOU SPEAK ON BEHALF OF 74% OF THE SOCIETY AND THAT YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO BE THE MAIN INTERLOCUTOR OF THE CIVIL SOCIETY IS CHALLENGED. |
| 00:03:57 | WHAT WE SAW WITH THE DEMONSTRATIONS AT THE CHURCH, WHICH THEY ORGANIZED IN THE AFTER MY AT -- AFTERMATH OF THE PUSSY RIOT, THE INCIDENT, WHICH THEY COULD MOBILIZE PEOPLE, BUT THEY DID NOT MOBILIZE NUMBERS THAT WERE EQUIVALENT TO THE 74% CLAIM. |
| 00:04:14 | BUT THE DANGER FOR THE CHURCH IN THIS NOW IS THAT AT LEAST THE INSTITUTIONAL CHURCH LOOKS WEAK, WEAKENED BY THIS, AND IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS MORE DEPENDENT ON THE STATE THAN IT SHOULD BE. |
| 00:04:26 | THE PATRIARCH WAS ALWAYS VERY CAREFUL AND NEVER WANTED TO APPEAR DEPENDENT ON THE STATE. |
| 00:04:31 | HE WAS A PROPONENT OF CLOSE CHURCH-STATE RELATIONS. |
| 00:04:35 | HE WAS NOT AN AMERICAN SEPARATIONIST. |
| 00:04:38 | HE WAS VERY CAREFUL TO ENSURE THE CHURCH NEVER APPEARED TO BE A JUNIOR PARTNER TO THE STATE. |
| 00:04:44 | NOW YOU HAVE A PERCEPTION THAT THE STATE HAS TO PROP UP THE INSTITUTIONAL CHURCH. |
| 00:04:49 | WE HAVE SEEN IT NOW WITH WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN SOME OF THESE INCIDENTS, GRAFFITI ON CATHEDRALS AND CROSSES BEING CHOPPED DOWN IN PARTS OF RUSSIAN, WHICH INDICATE WITHIN SOCIETY THERE IS MORE OF A SPLIT. |
| 00:05:04 | CERTAINLY, THE ORTHODOX CHURCH IN RUSSIA HAS A CONTRACT OF VERY DEDICATED ACTIVISTS, BUT THERE ARE ALSO PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT ARE LESS SANGUINE ABOUT A ROLE OF THE CHURCH AND SOCIETY AND THE IDEA THAT THE CHURCH COULD ACT AS A NEUTRAL SPOKESMAN, AND IF WE THINK ABOUT WHAT THE PATRIARCH SAID IN 1993 DURING THE POLITICAL CRISIS WHEN HE PORTRAYED HIMSELF ABOVE POLITICS, SOMEONE WHO COULD NEGOTIATE BETWEEN DIFFERENT FACTIONS AND RUSSIAN SOCIETY, AFTER THIS INCIDENT, MY SENSE AND MIGHT FEAR IS THE CHURCH BECOMES ONE FACTION AMONG THE MANY RATHER THAN BEING ABLE TO PLAY THE ROLE INITIALLY CONCEIVED OF IT AS STANDING ABOVE POLITICS. |
| 00:05:46 | WHERE THIS GOES WE WILL HAVE TO SEE, BUT IT DEFINITELY MARKS A SHIFT IN THE CHURCH-STATE RELATIONSHIP THAN WHAT YOU HAD EVEN IN 2007 AND IN 2008. |
| 00:05:57 | THERE IS ANOTHER ISSUE THAT IS TIED TO THIS, WHICH IS NOT TO BE TIED TO RUSSIA, AND COMES BACK TO THE UNITED STATES AS WELL. |
| 00:06:05 | THAT IS THE QUESTION OF THE ROLE OF RELIGION AND THE ROLE OF WHAT WE MIGHT FIND AS PROTECTION OF NATIONAL SYMBOLS, CULTURAL SYMBOLS, RELIGIOUS SYMBOLS IN A DEMOCRACY, BECAUSE OF THE DIRECTION ON THE U. |
| 00:06:21 | S. SIDE HAS BEEN INTERESTING. |
| 00:06:22 | FOR THE LAST KEY TO THE ZERO PRESIDENTS -- TWO PRESIDENT, THEY HAVE BEEN CAREFUL TO STRESS DEMOCRACY WILL TAKE DENVER -- DIFFERENT FORMS, THAT THE AMERICAN MODEL IS NOT NECESSARILY APPLICABLE TO THE REST OF THE WORLD, THAT DEMOCRACIES CAN DISAGREE ON ISSUES, BUT WE HAVE SEEN THE POSITION IN UNITED STATES TO CONTRAST UNFAVORABLY IN OTHER COUNTRIES WITH AN AMERICAN STANDARD. |
| 00:06:51 | THIS WAS AN ISSUE AND OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH GERMANY AND FRANCE OVER SIDE ELEGY. |
| 00:06:56 | MOST EUROPEAN COUNTRIES DO NOT BELIEVE SCIENTOLOGY QUALIFIES AS A RELIGION. |
| 00:07:02 | THE DEFAULT POSITION OF THE U. |
| 00:07:05 | S. GOVERNMENT WAS NOT TO SAY LIVE AND LET LIVE, DIFFERENT DEMOCRACIES CAN HAVE DIFFERENT STANDARDS, BUT WAS TO APPLY U. |
| 00:07:13 | S. STANDARDS. |
| 00:07:14 | WHERE I SEE UNEXPECTED CONSEQUENCES FROM THIS CASE POTENTIALLY IS AS YOU HAVE NEWT MOVEMENT IN THE MIDDLE EAST EMERGING IN EGYPT, TUNISIA, AS JORDAN AND MARCO DEMOCRATIZE MORE, THE QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT DEMOCRACY MEANS BROUGHT A TOLERATION OF BEHAVIOR AS OCCURS IN THE UNITED STATES AS MIGHT OCCUR IN OTHER COUNTRIES. |
| 00:07:40 | MY COLLEAGUE 10 YEARS AGO WROTE AN INTERESTING PIECE ON ISLAMIC THE MUSHY -- ON ISLAMIC DEMOCRACY. |
| 00:07:50 | THE RULE OF LAW, RETENTION OF GOVERNMENT AND ACCOUNTABILITY, BUT YOU WOULD DEFINE DEMOCRACY AS TOLERANCE OF A WIDE VARIETY OF LIFE STYLES, FREEDOM OF INDIVIDUAL CHOICE ON A VARIETY OF ISSUES. |
| 00:08:03 | YOU WERE GOING TO RUN INTO CONFLICTS. |
| 00:08:06 | NOT ONLY FOR RUSSIA, BUT ALSO THE QUESTION OF HOW THE U. |
| 00:08:08 | S. WILL ENGAGE BASED ON WHAT THE U. |
| 00:08:11 | S. RESPONSE WAS TO THIS CASE AND RUSSIA, RAISES INTERESTING QUESTIONS ABOUT THE U. |
| 00:08:16 | S. MAY OR MAY NOT BE ABLE TO NAVIGATE THE QUESTION OF ISLAMIC DEMOCRACY IN THE MIDDLE EAST. |
| 00:08:21 | SECOND AREA I WOULD LIKE TO TOUCH ON BRIEFLY, IN THE EXCHANGE BETWEEN DMITRY AND ANDRANIK, THE ROLE OF THE DISH JUDICIARY. |
| 00:08:33 | AND NUMBER OF PEOPLE WERE CONCERNED ABOUT HOW THE TRIAL WAS CARRIED OUT. |
| 00:08:36 | THEY WERE CONCERNED ABOUT THE STANDARD OF EVIDENCE. |
| 00:08:44 | MY COLLEAGUE HAS NOTED IF YOU WERE TO MAKE THE CASE THAT PUSSY RIOT IS -- YOU COULD MAKE A CASE THAT THEY WERE GUILTY OF WHAT COULD BE TERMED OF PETTY HOOLIGANISM, TRES TRESPASSING, BUT THE HIGHER CHARGE WHICH CARRIES THE LONGER SENTENCE, AND OTHER PEOPLE LOOK AT THE TRIAL AND SAID THEY DID NOT FEEL THAT WHAT THAT STANDARD WAS PROVEN, WAS THE EVIDENCE THERE, HOW MUCH OF IT WAS TWISTED, WHICH THEIR PRESSURE TO GET A SENTENCE AND A PARTICULAR SENSE? |
| 00:09:18 | IS IT BECAUSE A PUSSY RIGHT ITSELF? |
| 00:09:21 | NOT NECESSARILY, BUT THE QUESTION IS DOES THIS WEEK -- REINFORCE OR RAISED SKEPTICISM ABOUT THE JUDICIAL SYSTEM? |
| 00:09:30 | MY CONCERNS HERE ARE GOING FORWARD IS YOU HAVE A NUMBER OF CASES INVOLVING HIGHER-PROFILE CASES INVOLVING FOREIGN INVESTORS IN RUSSIA WHERE YOU HAVE SIMILAR QUESTIONS OF DAMAGE AND HARM BEING DONE, THAT TWO- MAN COURT HAS BEEN REMANDED BACK TO THEM, BP, ITS ATTEMPT TO FORGE PARTNERSHIPS DAMAGED THEIR INTERESTS, YOU MIGHT HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT STANDARDS OF EVIDENCE AND HOW THE SYSTEM WORKS. |
| 00:10:06 | IT DOES NOT MEAN FOREIGN INVESTORS WILL STAY OUT, BUT YOU WILL SEE LESS INVESTMENT OR MORE EMPHASIS ON FINDING NEUTRAL OUR BORDERS RATHER THAN USING THE RUSSIAN JUDICIAL SYSTEM. |
| 00:10:17 | I HAPPEN TO THINK IF THERE WAS ANY CHANCE THAT THE ACT BY NOT GO TO CONGRESS BECAUSE OF RUSSIAN CLAIMS THAT THE JUDICIAL SYSTEM WILL HANDLE ANYTHING, IN THE PROMISE OF A CASE CANNOT THIS IS THE STRAW THAT BREAKS THE CAMEL'S BACK AND THE ACT PASSES CONGRESS NOW. |
| 00:10:40 | AND THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT'S STANCE THAT THE JUDICIAL SYSTEM WILL HANDLE THIS ISSUE, THE UPPER SECTION THAT THIS CASE HAS REINFORCED HIS THERE ARE DOUBTS ABOUT THE RELIABILITY OF THE RUSSIAN JUDICIAL SYSTEM. |
| 00:10:52 | WHETHER WARRANTED OR NOT, PERCEPTIONS BECOME REALITY ON THAT ISSUE. |
| 00:10:56 | MY LAST POINT, THIS DMITRY NOTED THIS, WHICH IS THERE HAVE BEEN REACTIONS AND COUNTER REACTIONS. |
| 00:11:07 | THIS CASE WAS FOR MOST OF US WE NEVER HEARD OF THIS GROUP BEFORE. |
| 00:11:13 | MAYBE WE SAW THE VIDEO WHEN IT FIRST INITIATED, AND THIS GROUP HAS AN ACTIVE AS THE PERFORMANCE COLLECTIVE, RABBLE-ROUSERS', HOW DO YOU CHOOSE. |
| 00:11:25 | THEY HAVE AN ASSET AS WELL. |
| 00:11:27 | THEY HAD SOME OTHER PERFORMANCES. |
| 00:11:31 | THEY DID THINGS IN SUPERMARKETS. |
| 00:11:35 | THIS INCIDENT AND THAT CATHEDRAL WAS THE ONE THAT CATAPULTED THEM TO MUCH GREATER ATTENTION. |
| 00:11:40 | THE FACT IT HAS BECOME AN ISSUE THAT GOVERNMENTS ARE RAISING, THAT'S THE THE HEARTS AND FOREIGN MINISTRIES AND HEADS OF STATE ARE BRINGING UP, SHOWED THAT IT MAY HAVE STARTED AS A MINOR ISSUE, BUT HAS MADE IT WAY UP TO THE AGENDA, BUT THE REACTION OF CUT A MAIN DISH -- THE REACTION OF CONDEMNATION CREATES A SNOWBALL EFFECT. |
| 00:12:06 | THEN THE QUESTION IS, DOES THAT IMPACT THE RELATIONSHIP WHERE THINGS ARE MOVING FORWARD BECAUSE IT BECOMES DIFFICULT TO JUSTIFY ON UNDERSIDE? |
| 00:12:18 | WE HAVE SEEN THIS MAKING ITS WAY INTO THE PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN, THE DEPICTION OF RUSSIA AS A FOE OR AN ENEMY. |
| 00:12:28 | AS THIS RHETORIC CONTINUES, IT IS HARDER TO PRESERVE THE AREAS WHERE THE RELATIONSHIP HAS MOVED FORWARD, AND AGAIN, THIS MAY HAVE STARTED AS A STUNT. |
| 00:12:39 | IT MAY HAVE STARTED OFF AS A KIND OF PERFORMANCE ARTISTS THINK, BUT NOW IS AT A POINT TO WHERE THE FACT WE HAVE BEEN HAVING THIS SESSION COMES BACK TO THE ORIGINAL POINTS, THAT THE FACT OF HOW UNEXPECTED -- BY THIS POINT IN TIME THAT THE ANTICS OF AN ANARCHIST ARTIST COLLECTIVE WOULD BE ONE OF THE DOMINATED ISSUED IN THE U. |
| 00:13:07 | S.- RUSSIAN RELATIONSHIP. NOW THE QUESTION OF MOVING FORWARD IS OUT DO WE MOVE FORWARD AND NOT LET THIS CONTINUE TO THROW THE RELATIONSHIP OFF TRACK? |
| 00:13:15 | RIGHT NOW WITH THE WAY THE RHETORIC IS BEING THROWN BACK AND FORTH, I CAN SEE IT GETTING WORSE BEFORE BETTER ON THE UNHAPPY NO, I WILL CONCLUDE. |
| 00:13:26 | >> THE POINT YOU MADE ABOUT THE RUSSIAN JUDICIAL SYSTEM, IS THE KEY TO UNDERSTANDING THE WESTERN RESPONSE AREA. |
| 00:13:38 | THE RUSH LEGAL SYSTEM HAS A DIFFERENT LEGAL INTERPRETATION. |
| 00:13:46 | THE PEOPLE WHO ARE SO MUCH MORE UNDERSTANDING OF HOW THIS CASE WAS HANDLED, BUT WHEN YOU HAVE A SITUATION WHEN 96% OF RUSSIAN TRIALS, THE DEFENDANTS ARE FOUND GUILTY, 96%, WHEN YOU HAVE A REPUTATION WHEN 99% OF ALL RUSSIAN JUDGES ARE FORMER POLICE OFFICERS AND PROSECUTORS O'CLOCK AND LESS THAN 1% FORMER DEFENSE ATTORNEYS, YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND WHY THESE GIRLS WERE PUT IN JAIL, BECAUSE THE WAY THE SYSTEM WORKS. |
| 00:14:32 | THEY WERE GOING TO BE FOUND GUILTY, AND THERE IS THIS GENERAL MISTRUST OF THE RUSSIAN LEGAL SYSTEM MAKES THIS A SAID SOAP IMPORTANT IN TERMS OF WESTERN IMAGE OF RUSSIA. |
| 00:14:48 | I WILL NOT OR ASK ABOUT THE RUSSIAN CHURCH. |
| 00:14:52 | IT WAS AN INTERESTING PRESENTATION, NOT ONLY IN TERMS OF WHAT YOU SAID, BUT IN TERMS OF WHAT YOU DID NOT SAY YOU REFERRED POSITIVELY SEVERAL TIMES TO THE PREVIOUS -- IT IS A MUCH MORE CONTROVERSIAL LEADER. |
| 00:15:14 | HE IS BEING ACCUSED OF BE MUCH MORE CONSERVATIVE, BEING MUCH MORE ACTIVE, AND ANYTHING THAT CONTRADICTS OR DEFIED CHURCH DOGMA, THAT HE IS OFTEN DESCRIBED AS AN INSTRUMENT OF THE PUTIN GOVERNMENT. |
| 00:15:33 | SOMEBODY WHO MOVED THE RUSSIAN CHURCH FROM A TRADITIONAL ROLE TO BECOME AN INSTRUMENT OF THE STATE. |
| 00:15:46 | AS MORE PEOPLE IN THE MIDDLE CLASS, AND THE LIBERAL INTELLIGENTSIA,, THEY INCREASINGLY, -- COULD YOU TALK ABOUT THE CURRENT AND WHAT HE CAN DO TO THAREGARDING THE PLACE OF THE CHURCH AND THE RUSSIAN SOCIETY. |
| 00:16:12 | >> THE PATRIARCH WAS NOT THE PREFERRED CHOICE OF THE KREMLIN. |
| 00:16:20 | IN PART HE WAS SEEN AS AN INDEPENDENT THINKER AND HE WAS NOT GOING TO BE AS PERCEPTIVE TO STATE INFLUENCE. |
| 00:16:32 | BUT THE PATRIARCH IS VERY MUCH BY THE SOCIAL DOCTRINE OF THE RUSSIAN CHURCH, WHICH WAS ADOPTED IN 2000, WHICH CALLS FOR A MUCH MORE ACTIVIST ROLE FOR THE CHURCH IN SOCIETY, AND THIS GOES BACK TO THE SPLIT IN RUSSIAN CHURCH POLITICS, BETWEEN WHAT WERE KNOWN AS THE JOSEPH ITES, THOSE WHO SAID THEY WANTED A CLOSE ASSOCIATION, TO THEN REFORM SOCIETY, IN POST CHANGED ON SOCIETY AND REFORM IT IN ALIGNMENT WITH WHAT WE THOUGHT CHURCH DOCTRINE CALLS FOR. |
| 00:17:08 | HE IS MUCH MORE ACTIVIST. |
| 00:17:10 | HE IS MUCH MORE OF A PUBLIC PRESENCE, AND HE WANTS MORE OF THAT PUBLIC ROLE. |
| 00:17:15 | HE WOULD NOT BE DISSIMILAR FROM A NUMBER OF LEADING AMERICAN EVANGELICALS IN THEIR BELIEF THAT THE CHURCH SHOULD HAVE MUCH MORE OF AN ACTIVE ROLE. |
| 00:17:28 | THE QUESTION IS WHETHER OR NOT YOU FORM AN ALLEGIANCE WITH A STATE WHERE THE STATE CAN USE ITS INFLUENCE AND COURSE OF POWER TO MOVE THOSE THINGS FOR IT. |
| 00:17:38 | THAT IS WHERE YOUR POINT ABOUT THE LIBERAL INTELLIGENTSIA IS NOT THAT THEY OBJECT TO CHURCH DOMGA -- SOME DO, WHO MAY HAVE AN ISSUE IF IT, THAT ORTHODOXY IS A NEW PARTY CARD THAT YOU NEED TO USE TO DEMONSTRATE YOUR LOYALTY TO THE NEW RUSSIAN STATE -- IS MUCH MORE OF AN ACTIVIST, BUT YOU ALSO HAVE TO DEAL WITH CORRUPTION ISSUES. |
| 00:18:25 | THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF RETURN OF PROPERTY. |
| 00:18:32 | THERE HAVE BEEN ISSUES WITH WHAT HAPPENS WHEN AN INSTITUTION THAT HAS BEEN PERSECUTED AND DEPRIVED OF STATUS IS SUDDENLY SHARP AGAIN WITH LARGE AMOUNTS INFLUENCE AND WEALTH, AND HAVE THE -- AND HOW YOU NAVIGATE THAT THIS IS SOMETHING YOU CAN SEE IN POLAND. |
| 00:19:06 | >> BRIEFLY, I DO NOT AGREE THAT HE BECAME AN ARM OF THE STATE, AND CUTALEXI WAS SMARTER. |
| 00:19:23 | I AM RESPONDING TO NIK. |
| 00:19:28 | UNDERPIN ALEXI, A CHURCH WAS WEAK AND SUBORDINATED TO THE STATE. |
| 00:19:34 | AT THAT TIME, ONE OF MY FRIENDS WROTE AN ORDER EXEMPTING THE TRADE ON BEHALF OF CHURCH, ALCOHOL, AND TOBACCO. |
| 00:19:54 | THE CHURCH BECAME WEALTHIER BECAUSE IT WAS ABSOLUTELY -- ANOTHER PROBLEM IS OF COURSE, KIRIL WAS NOT THE MOST FAVORED KREMLIN CANDIDATE. |
| 00:20:16 | HE WAS AMBITIOUS AND I KNOW HIM FOR MANY YEARS. |
| 00:20:24 | HE WANTED TO BE THE PARTNER OF THE STATE. |
| 00:20:26 | THAT IS WHAT THE KREMLIN WAS AFRAID HE WAS TOO INDEPENDENT. |
| 00:20:30 | THAT IS WHAT IT DID NOT WANT HIM TO BE. |
| 00:20:33 | I THINK YOU MIGHT BE OVERLOOKING WHAT I WANTED TO MENTION, AND THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT POINTS, WHICH I WANTED TO EMPHASIZE. |
| 00:20:45 | THIS EVENT WITH PUSSY RIOT HAVE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES. |
| 00:20:54 | CONSERVATIVE INTELLIGENCE YEAH, CONSERVATIVE MIDDLE CLASS, A CONSERVATIVE CIVIL SOCIETY ELEMENTS ARE GOING TO GROW AND ORGANIZE THEMSELVES, AND DEMANDED THEIR INFLUENCE AND POLITICS, DEMANDING THEIR INFLUENCE IN MASS MEDIA, AND THEY ARE BORN TO BE A NIGHTMARE FOR RUSSIAN LIBERAL INTELLIGENTSIA, WHICH ALWAYS WAS MARGINAL, VERY SMALL, WHICH HAD A MONOPOLY OVER EVERYTHING, MEDIA, PUBLIC PLACES, POLITICS, AND IT IS GOING TO RADICALLY CHANGE. |
| 00:21:29 | THEY DID NOT KNOW THAT THIS TROUBLE REALLY WILL CREATE A VERY SERIOUS CONSEQUENCE. |
| 00:21:37 | WHAT I AM REMEMBERING, MY TALKS WITH KIRIL AND WAS A CRUCIAL ORGANIZIER, AND IN 1990'S, WE HAD SERIOUS TALKS ABOUT ORGANIZING THIS INTO A PARTY OR MASS MOVEMENT ON A PERMANENT BASIS. |
| 00:21:59 | IT IS VERY EASY. |
| 00:22:00 | THIS WILL INCREASE ENORMOUSLY THE POWER OF THE STATE, BECAUSE THESE KINDS OF GROUPS WILL BE SUBORDINATE TO THE STATE. |
| 00:22:11 | THE STATE COULD NOT DREAM OF THIS KIND OF ORGANIZED SUPPORT WHICH THEY CAN GET AS A RESULT OF WHAT HAPPENED. |
| 00:22:17 | I THINK THAT -- THEY ARE ABSOLUTE IDIOTS, THEY DID NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY DID AS A RESULT OF THIS KIND OF SMALL ACTIVITY. |
| 00:22:30 | IT IS VERY TIMELY, THE QUOTATION FROM NEIL ARMSTRONG, HE SAID, "ONE SMALL STEP FOR A HUMAN BEING, ONE HUGE STEP FOR HUMANITY. |
| 00:22:46 | " ONE SMALL STEP IN A PUBLIC SPHERE WHICH TRIGGERS ENORMOUS EVENTS THAT CAN HAVE A RESULT OF ALL THIS. |
| 00:22:55 | >> THANK YOU. |
| 00:22:56 | IT IS VERY IMPORTANT. |
| 00:22:57 | BEFORE WE MOVE TO DO A GENERAL DISCUSSION, CERTAINLY TO THE EXTENT OF PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES, THE CONVERSION TO AMERICAN VALUES, WE DO NOT THINK THAT WILL HAPPEN SO FAR. |
| 00:23:17 | WE HAVE AN IMPRESSIVE GROUP TODAY, GOVERNMENT EXPERTS, PEOPLE FROM THINK TANKS, THE MEDIA, AND THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE FROM THE RUSSIAN EMBASSY AND A DOZEN EMBASSIES IN THE REGION. |
| 00:23:30 | WHEN YOU FIRST KNOW EACH OTHER, BUT WE ALSO HAVE THE C-SPAN AUDIENCE, SO BEFORE ASKING YOUR QUESTION, PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF. |
| 00:23:39 | AGAIN, SINCE I WOULD LIKE TO GET EVERYBODY AN OPPORTUNITY BECAUSE OR ASK A QUESTION, PLEASE LIMIT YOURSELF TO ONE QUESTION OR ONE COMMENT. |
| 00:23:51 | WHO WOULD LIKE TO START? |
| 00:23:57 | >> >>MY QUESTION IS FOR ANDRANIK. |
| 00:24:01 | I FOUND IT INTERESTING, YOUR DISCUSSION FOR THE OUTSIDE CONSEQUENCES THAT THE GOVERNMENT'S ACTIONS HAVE. |
| 00:24:11 | WHAT ABOUT THE FOREIGN REACTION PREPARE ISN'T THE RUSSIAN -- DIDN'T THE RUSSIAN AUTHORITIES MAKE A MISTAKE IN ESSENCE BY TURNING THE PUSSY RIOT MEMBERS INTO MARTYRS AND GIVING THEM A KIND OF INTERNATIONAL FAME THAT THEY COULD NEVER HAVE ACQUIRED UNLESS THE AUTHORITIES HAD COME DOWN IN THEY DID ON THAT? |
| 00:24:40 | HOW DOES THE PUTIN GOVERNMENT RECONCILE WHAT IT HAS DONE WITH NEGATIVE PUBLICITY THAT RUSSIA HAS ACQUIRED ABROAD? |
| 00:24:50 | IS IT SIMPLY IN DIFFERENT OR DOES IT THINK IT HAS PAID A COST INTERNATIONALLY? |
| 00:24:54 | >> I THINK THIS HAS TWO ANSWERS. |
| 00:24:58 | THE FIRST ANSWER IS ALREADY GIVEN. |
| 00:25:03 | OF COURSE, THE LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES WORKED AND HANDLE THAT VERY POORLY. |
| 00:25:09 | IT IS VERY BAD. |
| 00:25:10 | THE GOVERNMENT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS. |
| 00:25:13 | BUT GOVERNMENT AT THIS MOMENT TRIED TO EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENED AND THE GOVERNMENT CONSIDERS THAT WESTERN -- THIS IS MAINLY A WESTERN PUBLICIZING THIS EVENT IS ONE-SIDED, IN BALANCE, AND IS IRRELEVANT. |
| 00:25:32 | IN THIS SENSE, THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT AND PUBLIC CAN JUST IGNORE IT. |
| 00:25:45 | >> OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS? |
| 00:25:48 | >> I READ THIS TO THE COMMENT OF IS THE CLASH OF CIVILIZATIONS, SASHA, THE FORMER CONSULATE ON FOREIGN RELATIONS TO GERMAN, A CLASH OF CIVILIZATIONS BECAUSE RUSSIA IS IN THE DARK AGES, THE WEST IS IN ENLIGHTENED AGES, AS THE THE GUY NEVER READ WHAT IS GOING ON IN THIS COUNTRY DURING THE -- WHAT IS THE POSITION, WHAT KIND OF DISCUSSION IS GOING ON ON EVERY ISSUE WHERE BELIEFS AND SYMBOLS OF THIS OR THAT RELIGION ARE INVOLVED RATE THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WHETHER ONE IS IN ONE CIVILIZATION OR ANOTHER. |
| 00:26:41 | THE THEMES WHICH ARE CENTRAL IN WESTERN EUROPE, IN THIS COUNTRY AND RUSSIA. |
| 00:26:47 | AND THE MIDDLE EAST. |
| 00:26:50 | >> INTRODUCE YOURSELF. |
| 00:26:52 | YES, SIR. |
| 00:26:59 | >> I WANT TO GET TO THE DEEPER ROOTS OF THE CHURCH-STATE WILL SHIP AND THE RELATIONSHIP OF THE TWO WITH SOCIETY AS A WHOLE. |
| 00:27:11 | IF YOU GO BACK TO LATE ANTIQUITY, YOU SEE THAT A LEADER OF THE CHURCH AND PEOPLE, AND THAT COMPACT MAINTAINED ITSELF, EVEN INTO OTTOMAN TITANS WITH THE AGREEMENT BETWEEN -- AND SET YOU SEE THIS LEGACY CONTINUING IN RUSSIA AS PART OF THE BYZANTINE COMMONWEALTH, AND THE QUESTION I HAVE, BECAUSE THIS IS AN OPAQUE TO ME AT THIS POOR, GIVEN REMARKS, WHAT IS THE EXPECTATION AMONG THE -- WITHIN THE RUSSIAN EAST COAST TODAY, THAT SOMEONE LIKE PUTIN WOULD HAVE THIS NATURAL RELATIONSHIP WITH THE CHURCH AND THAT HE WOULD SOMEHOW TAKE UNTO HIMSELF A POSITION OF LEADERSHIP SAID THAT THE KINDS OF THINGS YOU HAVE SEEN SINCE THE END OF THE SOVIET UNION REGARDING CHURCH AND STATE SET A LARGER CULTURAL EXPECTATIONS? |
| 00:28:20 | IF YOU COULD SET OUT HOW THAT IS BEING BROUGHT OUT TODAY GIVEN THESE RECENT EVENTS? |
| 00:28:26 | >> THANKS, MIKE. |
| 00:28:27 | YOU HAVE TO START WITH THE REALITY THAT PUTIN IS NOT JUST A BAD MEMBER OF THE CHURCH, BUT AN ACTIVE MEMBER OF THE CHURCH. |
| 00:28:38 | UNLIKE YELTSIN, THE FAMOUS PHRASE THAT THE POLITICIANS, THE ONES WHO WOULD SHOW UP IN CHURCH AND STAND OFF WITH CANDLES NOT KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON. |
| 00:28:50 | HE CLEARLY IS RELIGIOUS. |
| 00:28:52 | HE HAS HIS OWN VOTE VIEWS VERY HE IS ALSO AN INDEPENDENT RELIGIOUS THINKER, WHICH WAS CLEAR IN INTERVIEWS HE MADE, THAT HE IS NOT JUST SIMPLY A PASSIVE RECIPIENT OF WAITING FOR THE PATRIARCH TO TELL HIM WHAT TO BELIEVE. |
| 00:29:08 | HE HAS HIS OWN OPINIONS ABOUT RELIGION AND ABOUT THE ROLE THAT ORTHODOXY SHOULD PLAY AND HIS ROLE IN THAT. |
| 00:29:16 | PART OF IT -- AND ANDRANIK MENTIONED IT, THE IDEA THAT RUSSIA FORMS MORE THAN JUST A CHURCH AND STATE, THAT THERE IS A CIVILIZATION, AND THAT HAS IMPLICATIONS FOR THE NEAR ABROAD BECAUSE THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION IS ONE THING, BUT THE SPHERE CAN ENCOMPASS UKRAINE AND BELARUS AND OTHER AREAS. |
| 00:29:45 | AND ALL THAT DATA, SO ALL THESE THINGS ARE THERE. |
| 00:29:51 | THE HAVE NOT BEEN WELL FORM, WE CANNOT POINT TO IT AND SAY THERE IS A CLEAR IDEOLOGY, BUT THESE ARE STREAMS THAT ARE FLOATING THROUGH THIS PROCESS. |
| 00:30:01 | THE INTERESTING QUESTION FOR PUTIN IS HE HAS BEEN WILLING TO GET INVOLVED IN CHURCH AFFAIRS TRICK HE WAS THE ONE WHO BROKERED THE UNION BETWEEN THE ORTHODOX CHURCH AND THE EXILED RUSSIAN CHURCH, AND WHEN YOU READ TESTIMONIES OF THE EXILED BISHOPS, THEY SAID THE FACT THAT RUSSIA WAS -- THE SECOND POWER WAS BEING EXERCISED BY BELIEVE THE ORTHODOX CHRISTIAN WAS FOR THEM THE CULMINATING FACTOR AND WHY THEY SIGNED THE ACT OF REUNION. |
| 00:30:30 | THE QUESTION WILL BE NOW IS WHETHER OR NOT YOU COULD HAVE A NON-ORTHODOX PRACTICING POLITICIAN ACTUALLY BECOME PRESIDENT ANY TIME IN THE FUTURE, WHETHER OR NOT AS A BILL IN THE U. |
| 00:30:43 | S. HAVE SAID, AND ETS COULD NEVER BE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, AN ACTIVE ATHEIST IN CONTEMPORARY RUSSIA, AND AS YOU HAVE DESCRIBED, THE CONSERVATIVE CIVIL SOCIETY IS ENERGIZED MOVING FORWARD. |
| 00:30:59 | DOES THIS LEAD TO A BLENDING OF IDENTITY, AND WE ARE BACK TO THE COMMENT WHICH WAS I DO NOT THINK WAS NECESSARILY STUPID -- I DID SEE. |
| 00:31:11 | >> SHALLOW. |
| 00:31:13 | >> IT COMES BACK TO THIS QUESTION OF DEMOCRACY, PROMOTION, AND VALUES, WHICH IS, AND THE GERMANS ARE JUST AT WAS CRITICAL OF THE UNITED STATES AS BEING OVERLY RELIGIOUS AS OTHER AREAS, BUT THE EXTENT TO WHICH WE DEFINE DEMOCRACY AS BEING SECULAR IS NOW WHAT IS BEING QUESTIONED. |
| 00:31:32 | RUSSIA IS MORE MINOR, AND THIS WILL BE SOMETHING THAT HITS US WITH THE NEXT COUPLE YEARS WHEN WE DEAL WITH THE MIDDLE EAST ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT WE BELIEVE YOU CAN HAVE A FUSION OF RELIGION AND DEMOCRACY AND TREAT IT AS A DEMOCRATIC SOCIETY. |
| 00:31:49 | NOR POINTS ABOUT THE HISTORICAL THINGS IN THE PAST ARE PERCOLATE AGAIN, THEY HAVE SOME RESONANCE. |
| 00:31:55 | I WOULD NOT AGREE TO THE EXTENT OF THE RESIDENTS OF THESE IDEAS. |
| 00:31:59 | IT IS CLEAR THERE IS A GROWING REACTION TO THIS EVENT THAT IS CULMINATING ORGANIZING A CONSERVATIVE RUSSIAN CIVIL SOCIETY. |
| 00:32:09 | WHAT THAT PERCENTAGE WILL BE I DO NOT KNOW. |
| 00:32:11 | WE MAY SEE THIS, BUT COME BACK, WHERE THIS DEBATE BETWEEN THE MOLECULAR -- THE LIBERAL SECULAR IS AN EDGE -- SECULARISM. |
| 00:32:32 | [UNINTELLIGIBLE] >> IN THE AFTERMATH OF THE VERDICT, ONE OF THE COMMENTS THAT CAME OUT BY FORMER FINANCE MINISTER, WHO NOTED THAT THE RESULTS AND THE VERDICT HAD NEGATIVE THE IMPLICATIONS FOR THE FOREIGN INVESTMENT FUND IN RUSSIA. |
| 00:32:53 | I WAS HOPING YOU COULD RESPOND TO THAT AND COMMENT. |
| 00:32:57 | HOW WAS THAT RECEIVED IN RUSSIA? |
| 00:33:00 | >> GREATER THAN GREATER THANALEXII THINK HARDLY ANYBODY IN RUSSIA AND NOTICED HIS COMMENT. |
| 00:33:25 | >> CENTER FOR THE NATIONAL INTEREST. |
| 00:33:29 | YOU TALKED ABOUT THE TRIAL AND THE FERMENT CREATED PRODUCING THIS REACTION AND CATALYZING A FORMATION OF CONSERVATIVE GROUPS IN RUSSIA. |
| 00:33:46 | AND THAT BEING AN UNEXPECTED CONSEQUENCE OF THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT. |
| 00:33:59 | MY QUESTION IS, ISN'T NECESSARILY GOOD FOR THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT, AND IF THERE WERE A REAL REBIRTH OF VALUES AND MORALITY IN A SOCIETY WHERE A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE CALLING THE GOVERNING PARTY A PARTY OF CHRISTIAN THIEVES ALREADY, BEFORE THIS KIND OF THE ELEMENT? |
| 00:34:34 | IS THERE A RISK THAT THIS NEWLY CAPITALIZED INTEREST IN MORAL VALUES WOULD ACTUALLY TURN ITSELF AGAINST A SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE SEE AS CORRUPT? |
| 00:34:52 | >> A VERY GOOD QUESTION. |
| 00:34:53 | I WILL TRY TO GIVE YOU A SHORT ANSWER. |
| 00:34:58 | FIRST OF ALL, AS YOU KNOW, NOW THE PARTY OF CROOKS IS THE DOWRY OF MEDVEDEV. |
| 00:35:11 | NOW THE GROUP IS CREATING A PARTY BASED ON PEOPLE'S POPULAR FRONT. |
| 00:35:18 | IT IS GOING TO BE, AND IN THIS SENSE, SOCIETY NEEDS TO HAVE CLEARANCE, AND CHURCH POSSIBLE INVOLVEMENT IN SOCIETY, ITS VALUES, NOT A CHURCH POLITICAL ROLE, BUT ITS MORAL OR OLDROLE, IT WILL HAVE ITS SYNERGETIC EFFECT IN THIS PROCESS. |
| 00:35:48 | FIRST AND SECOND, THE CHURCH HAS CHRIS IS TRYING TO DEVELOP ITS MOBILIZATION, TOOLS, AND CAPABILITIES, WHICH COULD BE USED OR CANNOT BE USED BY THE STATE, AND AT LEAST THIS IS ANOTHER TOOL THAT WILL BE READY, AND THIS GIVES MORE ROOM FOR MANEUVER FOR AUTHORITIES. |
| 00:36:15 | BECAUSE HAVING THIS KIND OF WILD CAPITALISM WHICH WE HAVE IN RUSSIA, IT IS ABSOLUTELY WILD. |
| 00:36:26 | SOME LIMITS IN SENSE OF MORAL LIMITATIONS, IT IS NOT EXCESSIVE FOR US TRICK IS EXACTLY WHAT WE NEED. |
| 00:36:38 | >> ONE THING I HAVE NOT HEARD MENTION WHICH I AM INTERESTED IN HEARING IS THE U. |
| 00:36:47 | S. ROLE IN THIS WHOLE INCIDENT WE'RE HERE TO DISCUSS THIS DAY. |
| 00:36:52 | DIANA JOHNSON, AN ASTUTE OBSERVER, HAD A PIECE ESTIVATE WHERE SHE DISCUSSED THE DECLINING QUALITY OF POLITICAL PROTEST IN OUR SOCIETY. |
| 00:37:04 | THERE ARE THREE POINTS I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE. |
| 00:37:07 | FIRST IS THE ROLE OF THE NATIONAL ENDOWMENT FOR DEMOCRACY, AND WE HAVE SEEN TIES FROM THEIR SUPPORT TO SOME ORGANIZATIONS THAT HAVE RELATIONS WITH ITS ROCK GROUP, PROTEST GROUP. |
| 00:37:21 | YOU HAVE THAT. |
| 00:37:24 | NUMBER 2, YOU HAVE THE OBVIOUS USE OF TECHNIQUES THAT WE HAVE SEEN WWHERE YOU GO OUTSIDE THE LAW AND ATTEMPT TO PROVOKE A REACTION TO SHOW HOW OPPRESSED YOU ARE. |
| 00:37:36 | THE THIRD IS THE ROLE OF SUZANNE IN THIS WHOLE AFFAIR. |
| 00:37:46 | SHE WORKED FOR HILLARY CLINTON BEFORE HER COURAGE SHE WROTE THE HUMAN RIGHTS REPORT ON LIBYA THAT LED TO THE ATTACK, AND SHE IS NOW IN CHARGE OF AMNESTY U. |
| 00:38:04 | S.A., WHERE SHE HAS SPEARHEADED THIS, WHERE FOR $20 YOU CAN SEND A SKI MASK TO PUTIN IN PROTEST. |
| 00:38:11 | WHAT WOULD YOU MAKE OF THE U. |
| 00:38:14 | S. ROLE IN THIS BOOK IS AN OVERBLOWN? |
| 00:38:16 | IS THERE SOMETHING TO THIS? |
| 00:38:18 | >> IT IS A HUGE QUESTION, BUT I WANT TO BE VERY SHORT BECAUSE, ONCE WHEN I WAS WRITING MY PIECES MANY YEARS AGO ON AMERICAN SOCIAL LIFE, AND I KNEW ALL THESE PEOPLE, AND MANY OTHERS, RIGHT-WING SOCIAL DEMOCRATS IN THIS COUNTRY, AND I WAS A PERMANENT LEADER OF COMMENTARY AND ALL THIS KIND OF PUBLICATIONS. |
| 00:38:48 | I WAS IN FAVOR OF ALL THIS, PEOPLE WHO WERE IN FAVOR OF A CRUSADER AGAINST THE SOVIET UNION. |
| 00:38:59 | TO PUT MY ANSWER IN A SHORT WAY, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE NATIONAL ENDOWMENT FOR DEMOCRACY JUST OVERLOOKED THAT THE SOVIET UNION AND COMMUNISM IS NOT THERE. |
| 00:39:12 | THEY'RE STILL FIGHTING AGAINST RUSSIA AS THOUGH THERE IS A COMMUNIST PARTY OVER THERE, AND THEY WANT TO PUT THEIR PEOPLE AS THE PRESIDENT, PRIME MINISTER, AND THE CHAIRMAN OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL COURT, WHICH IS ABSURD. |
| 00:39:31 | THESE PEOPLE ARE THE REMNANTS OF THE COLD WAR, AND I THINK THAT NOW THEY ARE -- AND UNFORTUNATELY, THEY ARE -- >> UNFORTUNATELY THEY PLAY AND A POOR ROLE. |
| 00:39:48 | >> IN THIS EPISODE, I DID NOT ROLL, BECAUSE THEY GET GRANTS FROM AMERICAN STATE BUDGETS TO ALL THESE MARGINAL ORGANIZATIONS, OF COURSE THEY PLAY AN IMPORTANT ROLE. |
| 00:39:59 | MANY ORGANIZATIONS ARE GETTING 90%, 80%, AND IN SOME CASES 100% MONEY FROM AMERICAN STATE BUDGET MONEY, WHICH GOES TO THE NATIONAL ENDOWMENT FOR DEMOCRACY, AND IT IS THESE ORGANIZATIONS. |
| 00:40:16 | EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT. |
| 00:40:18 | UNFORTUNATELY, THIS IS THE REMNANT OF COLD-WAR MENTALITY. |
| 00:40:31 | ONCE I WAS AN ADMIRER OF THE PRESIDENT, BECAUSE THEY WERE FIGHTING AGAINST COMMUNISM. |
| 00:40:36 | NOW THEY ARE FIGHTING AGAINST RUSSIA. |
| 00:40:45 | >> CHRISTIAN SCIENCE MONITOR. |
| 00:40:46 | WE HAVE HEARD ABOUT THE ROLE OF VARIOUS GROUPS, CIVIL SOCIETY, CONSERVATIVE ORGANIZATIONS, THE CHURCH. |
| 00:40:54 | I DID NOT HEAR ANYTHING ABOUT THE RUSSIAN YOUTH POPULATION. |
| 00:41:01 | AND I WOULD BE CURIOUS TO KNOW IF THIS IS ANY MOVEMENT, ANY GROUP CAN BE CALLED AS SUCH A YOUTH MOVEMENT. |
| 00:41:14 | NIK SPOKE ABOUT COMPARISONS TO THE MIDDLE EAST, AND WE KNOW ABOUT THE IMPORTANT ROLE OF THE YOUNG POPULATION AS A CATALYST FOR THE ARABS SPRING AND THE MOVEMENTS THERE. |
| 00:41:25 | I WOULD BE CURIOUS, IF ANY SORT OF YOUTH MOVEMENT, CONSCIOUSNESS, EXISTS, AND WHAT ROLE THEY PLAY. |
| 00:41:39 | >> ONE THING I FOUND INTERESTING ABOUT THE COLLECTIVE IS THEIR POST-SOVIET. |
| 00:41:46 | NONE OF THEM HAVE MEMORY, OR IF THEY DO, THEY WERE LITTLE CHILDREN OF THE SOVIET PERIOD. |
| 00:41:52 | THIS IS A POST TEST SOVIET PHENOMENA AND. |
| 00:41:56 | THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO GREW UP IN THE 1990'S AND THE 2000'S. |
| 00:42:01 | THEY'RE BEGINNING POINTS OF REFERENCE ARE DIFFERENT ALDRICH AGGRESSIONS. |
| 00:42:08 | WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS WITH THESE MOVEMENTS, WITH OTHERS IS THIS SEARCH FOR -- ONE OF THE THINGS NOTICEABLE IN THE RUSH OF THE 1990'S -- IN THE WORST OF THE 1990'S, A FOCUS OF NATIONAL IDEAS, A KIND OF PRAGMATISM OR RESTORATION. |
| 00:42:29 | THE SENSE OF WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE RUSSIAN, WHAT DOESIS RUSSIA'S PLACE IN THE WAR, AND YOU SEE UNDERCURRENTS. |
| 00:42:41 | YOU SEE THIS REFLECTED IN THE XENOPHOBIC ATTACKS. |
| 00:42:46 | YOU'D SEE IT WITH THE RETURN TO STRICTER FORMS OF ORTHODOXY THAN YOU HAD BEFORE, PEOPLE EMBRACING THAT THE. |
| 00:42:53 | ALL OF THIS, I DO NOT THINK THERE IS ANY ONE UNIFIED YOUTH MOVEMENT, AND YOU HAVE VERY STRONG PRO-PUTIN YOUTH MOVEMENTS THAT HAVE DEVELOPED, MOVEMENTS THAT ARE AGAINST HIM, BUT THERE IS A SEARCH FOR IDENTITY, AND IS SOMETHING WHICH I THINK IS TO FIND THIS YOUNGER POST-SOVIET GENERATION. |
| 00:43:15 | WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE BIOGRAPHIES OF THE THREE WOMEN SENTENCED, THE OLDEST IS 38, 22, AND 24. |
| 00:43:24 | WHEN THE BERLIN WALL CAME DOWN, WHEN YELTSIN STOOD ON A TANK, THESE WERE NOT FORMATIVE EVENTS FOR THEM. |
| 00:43:32 | THEIR FORD OF EVENTS ARE PUT IN COMING TO THE PRESIDENCY, THINGS LIKE THAT. |
| 00:43:40 | FOR THEM, WE OFTEN TAKE FOR GRANTED IN THESE DISCUSSIONS OF SOVIET, AND WE HAVE THESE MEMORIES GOING BACK TO GORBACHEV. |
| 00:43:49 | GORBACHEV IS SOMETHING THEY HEARD FROM THEIR PARENTS, AND THEY HAVE NO EXPERIENCE OF THAT. |
| 00:43:54 | WHETHER OR NOT THEY ARE ON THE LIBERAL, CONSERVATIVE, WHENEVER THEY ARE, IT IS A SEARCH FOR WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE RUSSIAN IN A POST-SOVIET WORLD, WHERE THE MARKERS ARE GONE, THEY'RE NOT COMING BACK, AND YOU CANNOT KEEP REFERRING TO THE PAST. |
| 00:44:12 | >> ONE IMPORTANT THING. |
| 00:44:17 | >> OK. |
| 00:44:21 | >> I WANT TO TRY TO PUT TOGETHER A COUPLE OF IMPORTANT PERSPECTIVES THAT WE HAVE HEARD THAT BEGINS WITH A COMMENT IN THE INTRODUCTION ABOUT IT WAS COULDN'T SEE THE REACTION IN THIS COUNTRY AND ELSEWHERE TO THE HANDLING OF THE PUSSY RIOT. |
| 00:44:41 | IT WAS A SIGN OF WESTERN HOSTILITY. |
| 00:44:46 | WHAT I AM HEARING IS THIS SMALL EVENT IS REALLY CATALYZING THE FUSION OF CHURCH AND STATE AND IT RELATES TO THIS ISSUE. |
| 00:44:58 | WHAT I AM TRYING TO GET YOU TO TELL ME IS WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR RUSSIA'S RELATIONS WITH THE WEST, WHERE ELEMENTS OF THE SOCIETY ARE MUSLIM, WHERE MUCH OF THE NEARBY ABROAD THAT RUSSIA HAS TO DEAL WITH, IS MUSLIM, AND IT IS NOT JUST A RESURGENCE OF MUSLIM IDENTITY, BUT ALSO THESE CONFLICTS WITHIN THE MOSLEM WORLD, SHIIASIM, SOVIET, ETC. |
| 00:45:32 | WILL THE TURMOIL IN THE RUSSIAN -- IN THE MOSLEM WORLD FORCE RUSSIAN TO PULL BACK FROM BOTH, OR OUT THE USE SEE THIS SET OF TRENDS AFFECTING RUSSIA'S RELATIONS WITH THE REST OF THE WORLD? |
| 00:45:54 | >> EUROPE IS IN SEARCH FOR ITS IDENTITY. |
| 00:45:57 | THERE'S A CRISIS OF EUROPEAN IDENTITY. |
| 00:46:01 | THE CRISIS OF MULTICULTURALISM. |
| 00:46:03 | THIS COUNTRY HAS A CRISIS OF IDENTITY. |
| 00:46:07 | THE ONLY PLACE WHERE THERE IS A REAL IDENTITY IS THE ISLAMIC WORLD. |
| 00:46:12 | THE ISLAMIC WORLD IN THIS WAY, DOES NOT MEAN THAT RUSSIA IS ORIENTED IT'S UP TO WHAT IS IN THE ISLAMIC WORLD, BUT RUSSIA IS TRY TO KEEP ITSELF AND TRYING TO GAIN ITS OWN IDENTITY BECAUSE IF YOU DO NOT HAVE IN EUROPE AND IN AMERICA AT SOME KIND OF CLEAR- CUT IDENTITY, YOU HAVE TO DEVELOP YOUR OWN IDENTITY. |
| 00:46:37 | BUT THE WAY, PUTIN'S COMMENT AND LONDON WITH SIGNIFICANT IN THIS SENSE. |
| 00:46:41 | HE SAID, IT IS SOMETHING THIS KIND OF THING HAPPENED IN THE CAUCASUS AREA OR IN THE MIDDLE EAST, WE COULD NOT EVEN HAVE A CHANCE TO COME AND PROTECT THESE PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY WILL BE LYNCHED OR JUST KILLED BY A MOB OVER THERE, BECAUSE THIS IS THE REACTION. |
| 00:47:00 | BY THE WAY, THE ISLAMIC PART OF SOCIETY IS VERY CONSERVATIVE AND SUPPORT OF TO THIS KIND OF THING, BECAUSE THE DESECRATION, SACRILEGE IS ABSOLUTELY INTOLERABLE. |
| 00:47:13 | IN THIS SENSE, AND A LOT OF CHURCH BELIEVERS ARE MILKING AT THE RUSSIAN ORTHODOXY -- ARE LOOKING AT THE RUSSIAN ORTHODOXY. |
| 00:47:24 | THIS IS NOT MY SPECIALTY, BUT I AM INTERESTED IN THIS. |
| 00:47:28 | AS A KIND OF STANDARD BEARER OF CHRISTIANITY, BECAUSE CAUSEORTHODOXY IS ON THE RISE, AND THIS IS VITAL AND CANNOT RESIST THE EXTREMISM OF ISLAM. |
| 00:47:46 | NOT EUROPE, BECAUSE EUROPE SCLEROTIC. |
| 00:47:51 | NOBODY KNOWS WHO IS WHO, BECAUSE NO COORDINATION, NO CO- RELIGION, AND GRIDLOCK AND DYSFUNCTION EVERYWHERE, WE DID NOT HAVE ANYWHERE TO LOOK. |
| 00:48:07 | WE HAVE TO LOOK AT OURSELVES AND TRY TO FIND OUT WHAT WE ARE GOING TO DO. |
| 00:48:12 | IN THIS SENSE, I WANT TO ADD ONE THING, WHICH NIK MANCHIN , WHAT HAPPENED SEVERAL YEARS AGO IN RUSSIA, THE MOST SUCCESSFUL RELIGIOUS JOURNAL WHICH WAS LAUNCHED IN RUSSIA, IT MIGHT BE 15 OR 20 YEARS, AND DO YOU THINK WHO LAUNCHED THIS? |
| 00:48:38 | USUALLY CAN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT ORTHODOXY, IT IS PUBLISHED AS -- BABUSHKAS, >> THIS WAS LAUNCHED IN INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS. |
| 00:48:58 | PEOPLE WHO ARE SPEAKING MANY LANGUAGES AND TRAVELED ALL OVER THE WORLD, THEY HAVE HIGH LEVEL INTELLECT. |
| 00:49:16 | THEY ARE TEACHING TOGETHER WITH MY DAUGHTER, LITERATURE AT THE SAME TIME RUNNING IT AND THIS IS VERY WIDELY PORTRAIT AMONG RUSSIAN YOUTH, BECAUSE YOUTH IS BECOMING ORIENTED TOWARDS THE RELIGION. |
| 00:49:35 | AND NOW BEING FOLLOWER OF OR THOUGH DOCKSY. |
| 00:49:43 | YOU ARE BACKWARDS, YOU ARE STUPID. |
| 00:49:46 | NO, YOU ARE INTELLECTUAL. |
| 00:49:48 | BUT THIS IS A CONSERVATIVE INTELLECTUAL. |
| 00:49:51 | THIS IS EXACT -- >> HOW DO THAT'S RELATE TO RUSSIA'S FEELINGS TO THE CHRISTIAN WORLD IN EUROPE OR THE UNITED STATES? |
| 00:50:03 | >> RUSSIA, RECENT VISIT WAS VERY IMPORTANT TO POLAND. |
| 00:50:11 | WE HAVE PROBLEM -- NOW INTERESTING PROCESS IS GOING ON WITH POLAND IN ANOTHER LEVEL. |
| 00:50:16 | I WAS HERE A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO. |
| 00:50:19 | WE HAVE A COMMISSION OF RECONCILIATION OF HISTORICAL EVENTS AND HEAD OF THE DELEGATION. |
| 00:50:33 | AND NOW IN CHURCH LEVEL, THERE IS A KIND OF RECONCILIATION. |
| 00:50:42 | AND RUSSIA CHURCH, MORE WIDER HORIZON. |
| 00:50:45 | MUCH MORE ENLIGHTENED AND WELL PREPARED PERSON. |
| 00:50:50 | AND HE WANTS TO MAKE RUSSIAN CHURCH MORE RECOGNIZED, MORE ACTIVE -- YOU KNOW, IT'S TRYING TO OVERCOME THIS ISOLATION WHICH WAS TRADITIONALLY FOR MANY, MANY YEARS. |
| 00:51:09 | AND RUSSIAN ORTHODOX HAD NEGATIVE IMPRESSION. |
| 00:51:18 | AND YOUNGSTERS, INTERNATIONALLY ORIENTED, THEY ARE BECOMING MORAN MORE RECRUITED. |
| 00:51:30 | >> JUST COMPARE TWO THINGS, PRIORITY OF RUSSIA'S INTEGRATION WITH EUROPE. |
| 00:51:37 | IN 2012, THAT IS THE CREATION OF THE UNION. |
| 00:51:45 | EUROPE TO EURAASIAN. |
| 00:51:53 | >> THERE IS NO EUROPE. |
| 00:51:55 | >> WE ARE CLOSE TO CONCLUSION AND WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO DO IS ASK A QUESTION AND IMPOSE A COMMENT ON THE VERY WISE OBSERVER OF RUSSIA WHO IS SILENT , THE AMBASSADOR. |
| 00:52:09 | WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO ASK JIM BEFORE WE ALLOW A QUESTION, WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO ASK YOU IS A VERY SIMPLE QUESTION, DOES THIS INCIDENT REALLY MATTER? |
| 00:52:20 | IS THIS SOMETHING THAT WILL HAVE AN EVERLASTING IMPACT? |
| 00:52:25 | IS THIS WHOLE CONVERSATION -- CELEBRITIES BECAME INVOLVED AND IT BECAME A SCANDAL DURING A RELATIVEY SLOW AUGUST OR DOES IT REPRESENT SOMETHING THAT WE REALLY SHOULD WORRY ABOUT IN THE FUTURE? |
| 00:52:42 | >> I HAVE A QUESTION. |
| 00:52:50 | I WAS VERY INTERESTED BY YOUR OBSERVATION THAT THIS INCIDENT FRAGMENTED OPPOSITION AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE SPEAKING OUT ABOUT IT, IT'S LIBERAL FIGURES. |
| 00:53:03 | I WANTED TO ASK YOU IF THE LIBERALS ARE -- AND YOU DON'T SEE NATIONALISTS SPEAKING OUT. |
| 00:53:13 | YOU DON'T CARE MUCH ABOUT COMMUNISTS SPEAKING OUT ABOUT IT. |
| 00:53:17 | >> THEY POSITION THEMSELVES AS VERY ARDENT SUPPORTERS OF RUSSIAN CHURCH AND TRADITIONS, BECAUSE WE HAD STRANGE COMMUNITYISTS. |
| 00:53:32 | OUR COMMUNISTS TURNED TO THE NATIONAL COMMUNISTS AND TRADITIONALISTS. |
| 00:53:38 | IN THIS CASE, IT FRAGMENTED AND ISOLATED THIS MARGINAL LIBERAL GROUPS WHO ARE TINY AND THEY BECAME EVEN SMALLER THAN THEY WERE. |
| 00:53:50 | AGAIN, DISPROPORTIONATELY, THEY ARE PRESENTED IN WESTERN MEDIA. |
| 00:53:55 | WE CAN DO ANYTHING WITH THIS. |
| 00:53:59 | I'M DOING MY BEST, BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW SUCCESSFUL I AM. |
| 00:54:08 | >> ONE OF THE MOST DISTINGUISHED AMERICAN DIPLOMATS AND FORMER AMBASSADOR TO RUSSIA. |
| 00:54:15 | >> I GUESS I WOULD SAY THIS RECALLS ANY SUCH NUMBER OF INCIDENTS OVER THE LAST 20 YEARS WHICH IS PORTRAYED AS A MASSIVE TURNING POINT, CATALYST THAT HAS SENT US IN A GIVEN DIRECTION. |
| 00:54:28 | I HAVE COME TO BE REASONABLY INSENSITIVE TO THAT ARGUMENT. |
| 00:54:32 | I DO THINK THAT WE ARE AT A POINT WHERE WE ARE FOCUSING ON WHAT DIFFERENTIATES US. |
| 00:54:40 | THE POLITICAL CAMPAIGNS IN BOTH COUNTRIES HAVE TAKEN ON AN ANTI-THEME, ANTI-AMERICAN IN THE RUSSIAN CASE BEFORE MR. |
| 00:54:51 | PUTIN'S ELECTION, ANTI-RUSSIAN TO SOME EXTENT IN THIS CAMPAIGN, TO THE EXTENT THAT FOREIGN POLICY MATTERS AT ALL. |
| 00:54:59 | AND IT SEEMS TO ME THAT UNTIL WE GET THROUGH THIS PERIOD, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE MORE OF THIS, THE QUESTION IS, CAN WE LIMIT THE DAMAGE. |
| 00:55:07 | I THINK THIS WILL PASS. |
| 00:55:09 | I DON'T THINK IT REALLY MAKES A MAJOR DIFFERENCE, BUT IT ADDS TO THE SORT OF THEME THAT THE RUSSIAN COURT SYSTEM IS CORRUPT, IT'S NOTHING BUT POLITICALLY MOTIVATED. |
| 00:55:23 | YOU CAN'T DIFFERENTIATE GOVERNMENT AND THE JUDICIAL SYSTEM. |
| 00:55:26 | I MEAN IT'S PART OF THE SAME PIECE. |
| 00:55:28 | ALL OF THESE THEMES ARE NOT NEW. |
| 00:55:32 | THEY HAVE BEEN THERE FOR A LONG TIME. |
| 00:55:35 | IT'S AN ATTACK, SO ON AND SO ON. |
| 00:55:37 | ONCE THE AMERICAN ELECTIONS ARE OVER, WE WILL HAVE A REASSESSMENT ON ALL SIDES. |
| 00:55:43 | I DON'T KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN ON OUR SIDE. |
| 00:55:45 | IT DEPENDS ON WHO'S ELECTED OBVIOUSLY. |
| 00:55:48 | I THINK ON THE RUSSIAN SIDE, I HAVE BEEN IMPRESSED WITH MR. |
| 00:55:53 | PUTIN FOR MANY MONTHS AND VERY CAREFUL NOT TO CLOSE ANY DOORS. |
| 00:55:57 | HE IS SUITBLY HARDLINED IN THE WAY HE TALKS, BUT THE FACT IS, HE DOESN'T CLOSE ANY DOORS. |
| 00:56:05 | I DON'T THINK THIS SHOULD BE BLOWN OUT OF PROPORTION, BUT I DO THINK IT IS SYMBOLIC ABOUT THE FACT THAT EVERYBODY'S DEFAULT POSITION IS TO RUN BACK TO 1985. |
| 00:56:17 | THE MINUTE SOMETHING GOES WRONG, YOU GET BACK THIS TIT FOR AT THAT TIME BUSINESS, IT'S COMFORTABLE TO FIND -- TIT FOR TAT BUSINESS. |
| 00:56:31 | IT'S COMFORTABLE TO FIND THAT. |
| 00:56:33 | IF YOU ARE LOOKING WHAT IS GOING ON DAY-TO-DAY BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENTS, IT HASN'T CHANGED. |
| 00:56:41 | THE START TREATY IS BEING IMPLEMENTED. |
| 00:56:44 | THE AFGHANISTAN PROJECT KEEPS GOING. |
| 00:56:46 | IF YOU LOOK AT CULTURAL EXCHANGE, THEY HAD THIS BIG MEETING. |
| 00:56:54 | ACROSS THE SPECTRUM THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS THAT CONTINUE DAY-TO-DAY. |
| 00:56:58 | THE REAL QUESTION I THINK FOR THE AMERICANS IS WHAT COMES AFTER OUR ELECTION. |
| 00:57:03 | WHAT'S THE NEXT RESET OR WHATEVER WE'RE GOING TO CALL IT? |
| 00:57:08 | AND I DON'T THINK WE KNOW YET AND WE AREN'T GOING TO KNOW. |
| 00:57:12 | FOR THE MOMENT, I WOULDN'T BLOW THIS OUT OF PROPORTION, BUT IT'S A GOOD STORY. |
| 00:57:17 | >> JIM, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. |
| 00:57:19 | THIS IS A VERY GOOD WAY TO END OUR CONVERSATION. |
| 00:57:24 | AND THANK YOU FOR THE PARTICIPANTS AND C-SPAN FOR COVERING IT. |
| 00:57:33 | THANK YOU VERY MUCH. |
| 00:57:39 | [APPLAUSE] . [CAPTIONING PERFORMED BY NATIONAL CAPTIONING INSTITUTE] |
| 00:57:44 | CAPTIONS COPYRIGHT NATIONAL CABLE SATELLITE CORP. |
| 00:57:56 | 2012] |
| 00:58:15 | >> JOIN |
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