| 00:00:00 | NAME IS ROB ENGEL. |
| 00:00:02 | I'LL BE HOSTING THIS DISCUSSION, PANEL DISCUSSION. |
| 00:00:07 | WE HAVE THREE DISTINGUISHED AUTHORS, AND SCHOLARS, WITH US TODAY. |
| 00:00:14 | GARY GALLAGHER, EDWARD AYERS, AND IRA BERLIN. |
| 00:00:17 | BEFORE I MAKE THE FORMAL INTRODUCTIONS, I'D LIKE TO READ A PASSAGE FROM AN ARTICLE IN "THE POST" THIS PAST SUNDAY WHERE HE WRITES, DAVID DONALD, THE DEAN OF LINCOLN BIOGRAPHERS, ONCE REMARKED THAT THERE ARE MORE HISTORIANS OF THE CIVIL WAR THAN GENERALS WHO FOUGHT IT. |
| 00:00:40 | BUT I CAN ASHOE YOU THAT THE THREE WE HAVE -- ASSURE YOU THAT THE THREE WE HAVE HERE ARE AMONGST THE MOST DISTINGUISHED AND KNOWLEDGEABLE. |
| 00:00:49 | TO MY RIGHT IS GARY GALLAGHER. |
| 00:00:54 | HE IS A PROFESSOR OF HISTORY, THE AMERICAN CIVIL WAR, AT THE UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA. |
| 00:01:00 | HE HAS WRITTEN EXTENSIVELY ON THE ERA. |
| 00:01:03 | HIS MOST RECENT BOOK PUBLISHED IN 2003 IS "THE SHENANDOAH VALLEY CAMPAIGN OF 1862. |
| 00:01:11 | " HIS BOOKS ARE OFTEN CHOSEN AS BOOK CLUB SELECTIONS AND HAVE WON NUMEROUS PRIZES, INCLUDING THE BEST WORK IN SOUTHERN HISTORY. |
| 00:01:21 | HE ALSO HAS PUBLISHED MORE THAN NINE DOZEN ARTICLES AND NOTES AND SCOLORLY JOURNALS, AND SERVES AS EDITOR OF TWO CIVIL WAR BOOK SERIES AT THE UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA PRESS AND HAS APPEARED REGULARLY ON THE ARTS AND ENTERTAINMENT NETWORKS SERIES "THE CIVIL WAR JOURNAL. |
| 00:01:41 | " DR. GAL BERIS ACTIVE IN THE FIELD -- GALLAGHER IS ACTIVE IN THE PRESERVATION OF CIVIL WAR SITES AND THE BOARD OF CIVIL WAR TRUSTS. |
| 00:01:49 | I ALSO WANT TO NOTE THAT THE BOOKS THAT I MENTIONED ARE AVAILABLE AND CAN BE SIGNED AFTERWARDS. |
| 00:01:57 | AND THEIR TABLE IS TO MY RIGHT DOWN THE HALL. |
| 00:02:02 | FURTHER, IF THERE ARE ANY QUESTIONS AFTER EACH GENTLEMAN HAS GIVEN THEIR PRESENTATION, PLEASE FORM A LINE AT THE MIKE IN THE CENTER LINE HERE. |
| 00:02:16 | TO THE RIGHT OF DR. |
| 00:02:17 | GALLAGHER IS EDWARD AYERS. |
| 00:02:20 | EDWARD AERS IS THE GENE OF THE -- EDWARD AYERS IS THE DEAN OF THE COLLEGE OF ARTS AND SCIENCES AND THE PROFESSOR OF HISTORY AT THE UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA. |
| 00:02:31 | HE HAS WRITTEN AND EDITED EIGHT BOOKS, THE LATEST PUBLISHED IN 2003, IS "IN THE PRESENCE OF MINE ENEMIES. |
| 00:02:37 | " WAR IN THE HEART OF AMERICA. |
| 00:02:40 | 1859-1863. |
| 00:02:41 | THE BOOK IS BASED ON THE VALLEY OF THE SHADOW PROJECT, A WEB-BASED DIGITAL ARCHIVE THAT DETAILS LIFE IN TWO AMERICAN COMMUNITIES, ONE NORTHERN AND ONE SOUTHERN. |
| 00:02:51 | FROM THE EVE OF THE CIVIL WAR TO RECONSTRUCTION. |
| 00:02:55 | ALSO I'D LIKE TO NOTE THAT THIS BOOK RECENTLY WON THE BANCROFT PRIZE AT COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY FOR DISTINGUISHED WORK IN AMERICAN HISTORY. |
| 00:03:06 | DEAN AYERS BOOK, LIFE AFTER RECONSTRUCTION, A FINALIST FOR BOTH THE PULLITZER PRIZE AND THE BOOKER AWARD, WAS NAMED THE BEST BOOK ON THE HISTORY OF THE AMERICAN SOUTH. |
| 00:03:24 | EDWARD AYERS IS A RECIPIENT OF MANY TEACHES AWARDS. |
| 00:03:28 | HE WAS NAMED NATIONAL PROFESSOR OF THE YEAR BY THE CARNEGIE FOUNDATION FOR THE ADVANCEMENT OF TEACHING AND THE COUNCIL FOR ADVANCEMENT AND SUPPORT OF EDUCATION. |
| 00:03:43 | TO THE FAR RIGHT IS IRA BERLIN. |
| 00:03:49 | A PROFESSOR AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND. |
| 00:03:55 | HE HAS WRITTEN EXTENSIVELY ON AMERICAN HISTORY IN THE 18TH AND 19TH CENTURY, PARTICULARLY IN SOUTHERN AFRO-AMERICAN LIFE. |
| 00:04:04 | HIS MOST RECENT BOOK, "GENERATIONS OF CAPTIVITY," WAS PUBLISHED BY HARVARD UNIVERSITY PRESS IN 2003. |
| 00:04:11 | IT WAS ALSO RECOGNIZED AS THE BEST BOOK IN THE HISTORY OF THE AMERICAS BY THE AMERICAN HISTORIC CAL ASSOCIATION. |
| 00:04:17 | DR. |
| 00:04:18 | BERLIN'S FIRST BOOK, "SLAVES WITHOUT MASTERS," WON THE BEST FIRST BOOK PRIZE OF THE NATIONAL HISTORICAL SOCIETY. |
| 00:04:29 | HIS STUDY OF AFRICAN AMERICAN LIFE BETWEEN 1619 AND 1819, MANY THOUSANDS GONE, THE FIRST TWO CENTURIES OF SLAVERY IN MAINLAND NORTH AMERICA, WAS AWARDED THE BANCROFT PRIZE BY COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY. |
| 00:04:42 | DR. |
| 00:04:43 | BERLIN IS FOUNDER OF THE FRIEDMAN AND SOUTHERN SOCIETY PROJECT, WHICH HE DIRECTED UNTIL 1991. |
| 00:04:50 | SO WITH THESE INTRODUCTIONS, I WILL TURN IT NOW TO EDWARD AYERS, DR. |
| 00:04:55 | AYERS TO, BEGIN OUR DISCUSSION. |
| 00:04:59 | >> THANKS VERY MUCH. |
| 00:05:00 | GREAT TO SEE EVERYBODY HERE TODAY. |
| 00:05:02 | AND WHAT WE DECIDED TO DO IS TO TRY TO WEAVE TOGETHER OUR THREE PRESENTATIONS IN THE FIRST HALF-HOUR OR SO TO LEAVE TIME FOR QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS. |
| 00:05:11 | SO WE NEED TO THINK -- NEED EACH OF YOU TO BE THINKING OF A REALLY GOOD QUESTION TO ASK AT THE END OF THIS SO WE CAN HAVE A GOOD DISCUSSION. |
| 00:05:18 | AS YOU JUST HEARD, THE BOOK THAT I'M TALKING ABOUT TAKES AN UNUSUAL VIEW OF THE CIVIL WAR, TRYING TO UNDERSTAND IT FROM THE VIEWPOINTS OF BOTH NORTHERNERS AND SOUTHERNERS, AS WE SAY, FROM THE GROUND, NOT FROM THE VIEWPOINT OF POLITICAL LEADERS BUT RATHER WHAT IT WAS LIKE TO BE A PERSON, BLACK OR WHITE, MALE OR FEMALE, SOLDIER OR CIVILIAN, IN PRETTY CLOSE TO THE MASON-DIXON LINE, NOT FAR FROM HERE IN THE SHENANDOAH VALLEY. |
| 00:05:45 | AS THE CIVIL WAR APPROACHED -- APPROACHED. |
| 00:05:49 | AND HOW WAS IT THAT THIS CIVIL WAR CAME ABOUT? |
| 00:05:51 | AND THE BASIC PREMISE OF THE BOOK IS THAT WE LIKE TO GET AHEAD OF THE STARRY ON THE CIVIL WAR A LITTLE BIT -- STORY ON THE CIVIL WAR A LITTLE BIT TOO MUCH. |
| 00:06:02 | WE LIKE TO DIVIDE EVERYBODY UP INTO THE BLUE GUYS AND THE GRAY GUYS AND FIGHTING THE BATTLES. |
| 00:06:08 | BUT IF YOU ACTUALLY SORT OF LIVED THROUGH THAT EXPERIENCE THEY DID, YOU WOULD HAVE SEEN THAT THE CIVIL WAR WAS UNLIKELY AN EVENT. |
| 00:06:15 | AND THIS IS THE WAY THAT MY BOOK BEGINS. |
| 00:06:19 | AMERICANS COULD NOT HAVE IMAGINED THE WAR THEY BROUGHT ON THEMSELVES. |
| 00:06:23 | THOUGH PEOPLE HAD LONG TALKED OF CONFLICT BETWEEN NORTH AND SOUTH, NO ONE COULD HAVE FORESEEN BATTLE FIELDS STRETCHED ACROSS AN AREA THE SIZE OF CONTINENTAL EUROPE OR THE DEATH OF HALF A MILLION PEOPLE. |
| 00:06:36 | TODAY THE EQUIVALENT OF FIVE MILLION. |
| 00:06:38 | NO ONE COULD HAVE KNOWN THAT THE MOST POWERFUL SLAVE SOCIETY OF THE MODERN WORLD WOULD BE DESTROYED IN A MATTER OF YEARS. |
| 00:06:45 | NO ONE COULD HAVE KNOWN THAT A COMPLICIT VIEW OF SLAVERY COULD TURN INTO SUCH A WAR. |
| 00:06:57 | TODAY, OF COURSE, WE DO KNOW THESE THINGS. |
| 00:07:00 | LOOKING BACK TO TELL THE STORY TO OURSELVES, WE SEARCH FOR OPPOSITES AND CONTRASTS TO EXPLAIN THIS OVERWHELMING WAR, TO SET ABOLITIONISTS AGAINST SECESSIONISTS, INDUSTRY AGAINST PLANTATIONS, FUTURE AGAINST PAST. |
| 00:07:13 | WE LOOK FOR IMPENDING CRISES AND TURNING POINTS. |
| 00:07:18 | THIS BOOK TELLS THE DIFFERENT KIND OF STORE. |
| 00:07:21 | IT OFFERS A HISTORY OF THE CIVIL WAR TOLD FROM THE VIEW OF EVERYDAY PEOPLE. |
| 00:07:27 | THEY DID NOT CONTROL THE HISTORY THAT SHAPED THEIR LIVES, WHO MADE DECISIONS BASED ON WHAT THEY COULD TELL FROM NEWSPAPERS AND ONE ANOTHER. |
| 00:07:37 | THE INTERTWINING OF REASON AND FEELING, THE CONSTANT REVISION OF HISTORY AS PEOPLE LIVED WITHIN HISTORY. |
| 00:07:42 | IT SETS ASIDE OUR KNOWLEDGE OF THE WAR'S OUTCOME, STARTING BEFORE WAR COULD BE ENVISIONED AND ENDING WITH EVERYTHING IN UNCERTAINTY. |
| 00:07:50 | THOSE OF US WHO ARE LIVING THROUGH THE PRESENT DAY IN WHICH YOU ARE SURPRISED BY THE THINGS THAT YOU SEE ON THE FRONT PAGE AND ON THE NEWS EVERY DAY, YOU CAN IMAGINE THAT THE CIVIL WAR CAME IN THE SAME WAY. |
| 00:08:01 | YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO PREDICT WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN WHEN YOU TURN ON THE RADIO ON YOUR WAY HOME TODAY, WHAT NEW THINGS THAT WILL HAPPEN IN THE WAR THAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW THAT WILL SHAPE YOUR VIEW OF THINGS. |
| 00:08:13 | WELL, BACK HERE, OF COURSE, THE WAR WAS AT HOME. |
| 00:08:16 | IT WAS WITH PEOPLE AS IN VIRGINIA, AND PENNSYLVANIA, WHO LIVED LITERALLY NEXT TO EACH OTHER. |
| 00:08:21 | AND THE STORY OF THE TWO COMMUNITIES THIS BOOK TELLS ABOUT, THESE PEOPLE HAD BEEN INTERMARRYING, THEY BELONGED TO THE SAME CHURCHES, THEY HAD THE SAME CROPS, THEY HAD THE SAME TRADING CITIES. |
| 00:08:33 | THEY WERE BASICALLY HAD THE SAME FAMILIES. |
| 00:08:36 | AND YET IN THE SPACE OF A YEAR, THEY LEARNED TO SEE EACH OTHER AS ENEMIES. |
| 00:08:41 | THEY TALKED TO EACH OTHER INTO HATING THE OTHER ENOUGH TO KILL THEM. |
| 00:08:47 | AND HOW IS IT THAT THAT HAPPENED? |
| 00:08:49 | HOW IS IT THAT PEOPLE LEARN SO QUICKLY TO THINK OF OTHER AMERICANS AS PEOPLE WHO HAD NO RIGHT TO LIVE? |
| 00:08:59 | SO THE BOOK IS REALLY ALMOST A WEEK-BY-WEEK ACCOUNT OF HOW IT WAS, THAT IN THE SOUTHERN COMMUNITY, FOR EXAMPLE, IN THE SHENANDOAH VALLEY, IN JANUARY OF 1861, THEY SAY THEY HATE SOUTH CAROLINA. |
| 00:09:14 | AND BECAUSE SECESSION IS TREASON AND A VIOLATION OF EVERYTHING THAT'S RIGHT. |
| 00:09:21 | FOUR MONTHS LATER, THEY VOTE TO SECEDE. |
| 00:09:24 | HOW CAN PEOPLE SO QUICKLY RE-INVENT THEMSELVES? |
| 00:09:29 | IN THE NORTH, THE NEWSPAPER ARE VERY SKEPTICAL OF AFRICAN AMERICAN'S DESIRE TO BE FREE AND VERY SYMPATHETIC TO WHITE SOUTHERNER, AND YET THEY FIND THEMSELVES OVER THE COURSE OF THE WAR FIGHTING TO BRING TO AN END THE LARGEST SYSTEM OF SLAVERY IN THE MODERN WORLD. |
| 00:09:44 | HOW IS THAT EQUALLY PROFOUND TRANSFORMATION HAPPENS? |
| 00:09:48 | ONE OF THE THINGS THIS BOOK TRIES TO DO IS TIE TOGETHER EVENTS ON THE BATTLEFIELD AND THE HOME FRONT. |
| 00:09:52 | FOR A LONG TIME, THOSE HAVE BEEN SEPARATE WAYS OF UNDERSTANDING THE CIVIL WAR. |
| 00:09:57 | PEOPLE DIVIDED UP. |
| 00:10:00 | PEOPLE DO MILITARY HISTORY. |
| 00:10:01 | OTHER PEOPLE DO HISTORY OF THE HOME FRONT AND OF WOMEN AND OF AFRICAN AMERICANS. |
| 00:10:04 | WHAT I HAVE TRIED TO DO IN THIS STORY IS WEAVE THE TWO TOGETHER. |
| 00:10:07 | I WANT TO READ YOU ONE OTHER SECTION FROM THE BOOK TO GIVE YOU A BASIC IDEA OF HOW IT IS THAT I DO THAT. |
| 00:10:14 | AS I DO THAT, I TURN TO AN UNLIKELY SOURCE OF INSPIRATION, STEVEN J. |
| 00:10:22 | GOULD,S WHO HAS WRITTEN ABOUT THE COURSE OF EVOLUTION, A VERY FAMOUS WRITER ABOUT SCIENCE. |
| 00:10:27 | HE SAYS THAT CONTINGENCY IS THE CENTRAL PRINCIPLE OF ALL HISTORY. |
| 00:10:31 | HE ARGUED THAT NATURAL HISTORY IS NOT HERLY UNFOLDING OF IMMUTEABLE LAWS, BUT RATHER THAT THINGS CHANGE IN PROFOUND WAYS. |
| 00:10:41 | AND HIS POINT OF VIEW, THE COURSE OF ALL LIFE CHANGED BECAUSE OF CONTINGENCY. |
| 00:10:44 | AS HE WAS TRYING TO THINK OF WHAT EXAMPLE HE WOULD USE TO MAKE THAT POINT, HE CHOSE THE AMERICAN CIVIL WAR. |
| 00:10:50 | HE SAYS, THE SOUTH LOST THE CIVIL WAR WITH A KIND OF RELENTLESS INEVITABLECHIBILITY -- INESTITIBILITY. |
| 00:11:04 | BUT WIND THE TAPE OF AMERICAN HISTORY BACK TO LOUISIANA PURCHASE, THE DREAD SCOTT DECISION, ON OR ABOUT EVEN THE FORT SIMP TER, GOULD POINTED OUT. |
| 00:11:13 | LET IT RUN WITH JUST A FEW SMALL JUDICIOUS CHANGES, PLUS THEIR CASCADE OF CONSEQUENCES, WITH A DIFFERENT OUTCOME, INCLUDING THE OPPOSITE RESOLUTION MIGHT HAVE OCCURRED WITH EQUAL RELENTLESSNESS PAST A CERTAIN POINT. |
| 00:11:28 | SO HE SAYS YOU JUST CHANGE A FEW THINGS, AND THE COURSE OF THE WAR WOULD HAVE BEEN DIFFERENT. |
| 00:11:33 | SO THE TRICK IS HOW DO WE UNDERSTAND THAT'S A FACT? |
| 00:11:35 | ON THE OTHER HAND, THE WAR HAD PROFOUND ORIGINS AND FUNDAMENTAL CONFLICTS IN AMERICAN HISTORY ABOUT HOW COULD A NATION THAT CLAIMED TO BE BASED ON FREEDOM AND THE -- AND INTEGRITY OF INDIVIDUAL LIFE ALSO BE BASED ON SLAVERY. |
| 00:11:50 | HOW IS IT THAT COULD HAPPEN? |
| 00:11:52 | ONE OF THE THINGS I TRIED TO SHOW IS HOW THE BATTLEFIELD EVENTS AFFECTED THE COURSE OF THAT SLAVERY. |
| 00:11:57 | AND I USE AN EXAMPLE, STONE WALL JACKSON'S VALLEY CAMPAIGN, WHICH HELD WITHIN ITSELF MOMENTS WHEN EEFMENTS COULD HAVE TAKEN A -- EVENTS COULD HAVE TAKEN A TURN. |
| 00:12:09 | THIS TIME, HAVE THE FIFTH VIRGINIA UNABLE TO SLOW THE UNION PURSUIT SO THAT JACKSON'S MEN, ALREADY DEFEATED, WERE DECIMATED. |
| 00:12:17 | OR HAVE THE UNION ARMY PUSH THE DESPERATE CONFEDERATES OFF THE ROCKY HILLSIDES, ON OR ABOUT EVEN AFTER THE GLORY AT WINCHESTER, LEAVE A BRIDGE UN BURNED. |
| 00:12:30 | AT ANY OF THESE VERY REAL POSSIBILITIES OCCURRED, THE ENTIRE CAMPAIGN COULD HAVE FAILED AND GOULD'S CASCADES OF CONSEQUENCES BEGUN. |
| 00:12:39 | IF WAR HAD ENDED IN 1862 BEFORE THE EMANCIPATION PROCLAMATION, SLAVERY WOULD HAVE FOLLOWED A DIFFERENT COURSE. |
| 00:12:48 | PERHAPS THE BEST THING THE ARMY COULD HAVE DONE IS LOST IN 1962. |
| 00:12:55 | IF THEY HAD, SLAVERY MIGHT HAVE LIVED ON. |
| 00:13:01 | JUST AS THE WAR WOULD NOT HAVE OCCURRED WITHOUT SLAVERY, SO WOULD THE HISTORY OF SLAVERY AND OF THE UNITED STATES IN THE WORLD BEEN DIFFERENT HAD STONEWALL JACKSON NOT ACCOMPLISHED ALL THAT THEY DID IN THE VALLEY CAMPAIGN OF 1862. |
| 00:13:14 | THIS SINGLE CAMPAIGN CHANGED THE LIVES OF PEOPLE OF EVERY DESCRIPTION, RADIATING TO THOUSANDS OF HOMES NORTH AND SOUTH. |
| 00:13:21 | ITS CONTINCHENCE CASCADING THROUGH GENERATIONS YET UNBORN IN 1862. |
| 00:13:26 | THOSE WHO WITNESSED THOSE EVENTS THOUGHT AND FELT AND ACTED DIFFERENTLY ABOUT THE WAR AS A RESULT OF THE BATTLES. |
| 00:13:32 | THEY UNDERSTAND THE CONFEDERACY AND THE UNION IN NEW WAYS. |
| 00:13:38 | EVALUATE THE CHARACTERISTICS OF OF EACH SIDE, AND WEIGHED THE SUCCESS AND FAILURE ON A DIFFERENT SCALE. |
| 00:13:47 | WHAT SEEMED INEVITTABLE BEFORE NOW SEEMED IMPOSSIBLE. |
| 00:13:51 | WHAT HAD SEEMED ORDAINED NOW SEEMED INSCRUTABLE. |
| 00:13:55 | IN 1962, IT'S NOT CLEAR WHAT COURSE THE WAR IS GOING TO PLAY. |
| 00:14:00 | IN THE NORTHERN COMMUNITY, WE FIND IT HAS ONE OF THE LARGEST CONCENTRATIONS OF AFRICAN AMERICANS IN THE NORTH, RIGHT THERE ON THE MASON-DIXON LINE. |
| 00:14:08 | IN 1862, YOUNG MEN IN THE COMMUNITIES ARE ALREADY TALKING ABOUT HOW MUCH THEY WOULD -- HOW MUCH THEY WANT TO FIGHT THE UNION CAUSE, HOW MUCH THEY WANT TO HELP TURN THE UNION CAUSE INTO A CAUSE OF FREEDOM. |
| 00:14:19 | AND AS IT TURNS OUT IN THE SECOND PART OF THIS BOOK, WE SEE THEM STARTING WRITING LETTERS AS THEY ARE RECRUITED AND GO OFF AS YOU MAY REMEMBER THE MOVIE "GLORY" TO BOSTON AND BEGIN TRAINING AND TO GO FIGHT IN FORT WAGNER AND ALL OF THE OTHER BATTLES IN WHICH BLACK TROOPS WERE INVOLVED. |
| 00:14:38 | SO MY STORY GOES FROM JULY OF 1859, WHEN AMERICANS BLACK OR WHITE, NOT HAVE IMAGINED THE NEXT THREE YEARS, AND WHEN IT ENDS, EVERYTHING IN THE UNITED STATES SEEMS UP FOR GRABS. |
| 00:14:53 | >> WE HAVE TRIED TO COORDINATE A LITTLE BIT HERE, AND IT'S -- IT IS MUCH OF WHAT I SAY IS GOING TO ECOWHAT ED HAS TALKED ABOUT ORDER, SOME OF THE THEMES. |
| 00:15:04 | IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO REMEMBER THAT THE UNITED STATES VICTORY WAS NOT PREORDAINED IN THE CIVIL WAR. |
| 00:15:11 | WE HAVE TO GET OUT OF THE HABIT OF WORKING OUR WAY BACKWARDS TO UNDERSTAND HOW THE WAR UNFOLDED THE WAY IT DID. |
| 00:15:17 | THAT'S ABSOLUTELY THE WRONG WAY TO GO ABOUT IT, AND YOU'LL GO WRONG EVERY TIME IF YOU DO TRY THAT. |
| 00:15:22 | YOU NEED TO READ FORWARD IN THE EVIDENCE TO GET A SENSE OF WHAT THE ELEMENT OF CONTINGENCY THAT ED HAS PUT TOWARD, TO UNDERSTAND HOW PROMINENTLY THAT FIGURED. |
| 00:15:34 | IN THE WAY THAT THE WAR DEVELOPED. |
| 00:15:37 | EITHER SIDE COULD WIN. |
| 00:15:38 | I BELIEVE THAT THE CONFEDERACY CAME CLOSE MORE THAN ONCE TO PERSUADING THE NORTHERN CIVILIAN POPULATION THAT THE WAR WASN'T WORTH THE COST IN EITHER HUMAN OR MATERIAL TERMS, AND THAT IS THE KEY. |
| 00:15:49 | THE KEY IS WHICH OF THESE CIVILIAN POPULATIONS IN A WAR BETWEEN TWO DEMOCRATIC REPUBLICS IS GOING TO STAY AT IT LONGER. |
| 00:15:58 | WHICHEVER OF THE CIVILIAN POPULATIONS DECIDED FIRST THAT THEY SIMPLY COULDN'T CONTINUE A WAR THAT HAD BECOME SO MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE IN EVERY WAY THAN ANYONE HAD ANTICIPATED IN 1861, WHICHEVER ONE DECIDED THAT FIRST, THE OTHER SIDE WOULD WIN. |
| 00:16:12 | AND THE KEY TO UNDERSTANDING THE WAY THAT CIVILIAN MORALE ROSE AND FELL ON BOTH SIDES, AND IT ROSE AND FELL WITHOUT HUGE SPIKES THROUGHOUT THE WAR. |
| 00:16:22 | IT'S NOT OFTEN THE -- OFTEN THE SENSE IS THAT YOU BEGIN WITH THE CONFEDERATE VICTORY AT FIRST BULL RUN, AND THAT'S THE HIGH POINT FOR THE CONFEDERACY, AND THEN IT'S THIS PRETTY MUCH SLIDE TOWARD AP MATIC. |
| 00:16:37 | -- AP MOTT IX. |
| 00:16:39 | THERE ARE LOTS OF SWINGS. |
| 00:16:40 | PEOPLE FOLLOWED EVENTS FROM THE FRONT VERY CLOSELY. |
| 00:16:44 | AND THE CIVILIAN AND MILITARY SPIERS ARE TIED TOGETHER IN MYRIAD WAYS. |
| 00:16:49 | YOU CANNOT UNDERSTAND ONE WITHOUT TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE OTHER. |
| 00:16:51 | AND I THINK MUCH OF THE VAST LITERATURE ON THE CIVIL WAR IS FLAWED BECAUSE A GREAT DEAL OF IT IS WRITTEN ABOUT JUST ONE OF THOSE TWO SPIERS. |
| 00:17:00 | YOU EITHER WRITE ABOUT MILITARY EVENTS, GENERALS AND BATTLES AND CAMPAIGNS, OR YOU WRITE ABOUT THE NONMILITARY SPHERE. |
| 00:17:09 | YOU CAN'T GET AT THE WAR LOOKING AT ONE OR THE OTHER. |
| 00:17:12 | YOU HAVE TO BRING IT TOGETHER. |
| 00:17:13 | WHICH IS WHAT I HAVE TRIED TO DO IN MY WORK OVER THE YEARS, INCLUDING THE TWO BOOKS THAT I'M HIGHLIGHTING HERE TODAY OR THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TODAY. |
| 00:17:22 | ONE IS TITLED "THE SHENANDOAH VALLEY CAMPAIGN" AND THE OTHER IS TITLED "LEE AND HIS ARMY IN CONFEDERATE HISTORY. |
| 00:17:28 | " THE VALLEY CAMPAIGN IS A BOOK OF ESSAYS. |
| 00:17:32 | I AM THE EDITOR AND HAVE ONE ESSAY IN IT. |
| 00:17:34 | BUT IT'S A BOOK THAT TRIES TO CAST THESE CAMPAIGNS IN A WIDER FRAME WORK, TO SHOW HOW THE CAMPAIGNS RESONATED BEHIND THE LINES, HOW THE CAMPAIGN INFLUENCED CIVILIANS IN THE AREA, HOW THE CAMPAIGNS INFLUENTSED POLITICS AND SO FORTH -- INFLUENCED POLITICS AND SO FORTH. |
| 00:17:55 | JACKSON'S CAMPAIGN UNFOLDED AT A VERY CRITICAL TIME. |
| 00:18:03 | IT'S THE FIRST GOOD NEWS THE CONFEDERATE PEOPLE HAD GOTTEN IN MANY MONTHS. |
| 00:18:08 | AFTER MANY, MANY, HORRIBLE PIECES OF NEWS COMING FROM THE WESTERN THEATER, WHERE GRANT WAS OPERATING AND FROM THE EASTERN THEATER IN VIRGINIA WHERE THEY WERE CLOSING IN ON RICHMOND. |
| 00:18:22 | IT'S THE TIMING THAT REALLY EXPLAINS WHY JACKSON BECAME SUCH A GREAT FIGURE. |
| 00:18:28 | AND THAT IS SOMETHING -- THAT'S PERHAPS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THE 1862 SHENANDOAH VALLEY CAMPAIGN. |
| 00:18:35 | IT HAD THE IMPACT IT ABOUT BOTH ON THE CONFEDERATE HOME FRONT AND THE FEDERAL HOME FRONT BECAUSE OF WHEN IT HAPPENED. |
| 00:18:42 | IT'S NOT A HUGELY IMPORTANT CAMPAIGN IN TERMS OF SCALE. |
| 00:18:45 | THERE ARE RELATIVELY FEW SOLDIERS INVOLVED. |
| 00:18:48 | NO REAL BATTLES IN TERMS OF CIVIL WAR CISED BATTLES. |
| 00:18:51 | BUT THE IMPACT IS ENORMOUS. |
| 00:18:55 | MY BOOK IS LEE AND HIS ARMY, WHICH IS ALSO ESSAYS BUT THEY ARE ALL MY ESSAYS IT HIGHLIGHTS THE WAYS IN WHICH LEE AND HIS ARMY INFLUENCED THE COURSE OF THE WAR, INFLUENCED BOTH THE CONFEDERATE CIVILIAN POPULATION AND THE CIVILIANS BEHIND THE LINES IN THE UNITED STATES. |
| 00:19:13 | AND IT POINTS OUT WHAT ED ALLUDED TO IN TERMS OF EMANCIPATION. |
| 00:19:20 | IF YOU TAKE LEE OUT OF THE EQUATION, IF YOU TAKE HIS ACTIONS IN THE SEVEN DAYS CAMPAIGN OUT OF THE EQUATION, YOU HAVE A UNITED STATES VICTORY IN THE SUMMER OF 1862. |
| 00:19:29 | I DON'T SEE -- I DON'T BELIEVE IN COUNTER FACTUAL HISTORY MUCH, BUT I WILL INDULGE IN IT HERE AND SAY THAT I THINK THERE IS NO WAY THAT GEORGE B. |
| 00:19:38 | MCCLELLAN WOULD HAVE AVOIDED SUCCESS IN RISM MONIN 1862 DESPITE HIS BEST EFFORTS. |
| 00:19:46 | HE WAS OPPOSING JOSEPH EGGLESTON JOHNSTON, A MAN WHO WAS READY AND ABLE TO LET SUCCESS FALL AWAY FROM HIM IN MANY WAYS. |
| 00:19:56 | LEE'S EMERGENCE AS A GENERAL IN JUNE AND JULY OF 1862 FRUSTRATED MCCLELLAN'S CAMPAIGN OUTSIDE RICHMOND, WHICH IN TURN BROUGHT A SEA CHANGE IN CIVILIAN MORALE IN THE CONFEDERACY, AND PUSHED TO THE FOREFRONT IN A NUMBER OF WAYS EMANCIPATION IN THE UNITED STATES, A VICTORY IN THE SUMMER OF 1862 BY GEORGE B. |
| 00:20:20 | MCCLELLAN OUTSIDE RICHMOND WOULD HAVE BROUGHT AN END TO THE WAR WITHOUT EMANCIPATION IN THE TABLE, IN ONE OF THE WAR'S MANY IRONIES. |
| 00:20:27 | YOU HAVE TO RECKON R. |
| 00:20:30 | E. LEE AMONG ANY ROSTER OF FACTORS THAT EVENTUALLY BROUGHT EMANCIPATION. |
| 00:20:36 | I THINK LEE'S LEADERSHIP EXTENDED THE WAR BY THREE YEARS, AND ONLY BECAUSE THE WAR WAS EXTENDED BY THAT PERIOD DID YOU HAVE A MORE REVOLUTIONARY ASPECT OF THE WAR EMERGE. |
| 00:20:48 | HIGHLIGHTED, OF COURSE, BY EMANCIPATION. |
| 00:20:52 | BY LOOKING AT CAMPAIGNS AND GENERALS AND THEIR IMPACT IN THE BROADER SWEEP OF THE WAR, I THINK WE CAN GAIN A REAL APPRECIATION OF HOW THINGS UNFOLDED. |
| 00:21:04 | WE CAN'T DO IT BY JUST LOOKING AT BATTLES. |
| 00:21:06 | IF ALL YOU'RE INTERESTED IN IS HOW MANY CASUALTIES THERE WERE AT GETTYSBURG AND WHICH GENERALS MADE MISTAKES, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET VERY FAR. |
| 00:21:15 | IT'S NOT GOING TO GET YOU VERY FAR IN TERMS OF UNDERSTANDING THE WAR. |
| 00:21:19 | BUT IF YOU LOOK AT IT IN A BROADER CONTEXT, I THINK LOOK AT MILITARY HISTORY, I MEAN, AND AT CAMPAIGNS AND GENERALSHIP AND SO FORTH IN A BROADER CONTEXT, IT WILL GET YOU A GREAT DEAL DOWN A VERY LONG WAY DOWN THE ROAD TOWARD UNDERSTANDING WHAT WAS GOING ON. |
| 00:21:35 | AND I WILL JUST CLOSE. |
| 00:21:36 | I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT IRA GETS HIS FULL COMPLIMENT OF TIME HERE. |
| 00:21:40 | PLEASE READ FORWARD. |
| 00:21:42 | READ FORWARD IN THE EVIDENCE. |
| 00:21:43 | IF YOU READ FORWARD, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A TREMENDOUS APPRECIATION OF HOW CONTINGENCY COMES AGAIN AND AGAIN TO THE FORE, AND ONE HUGE ELEMENT OF CONTINGENCY, UNAMOUNTED CERTAIN BY THE VAST -- UNAMOUNTED BY THE VAST MAJORITY OF WHITES, WAS THE EMATERNALENCE OF AFRICAN AMERICAN MILITARY UNITS. |
| 00:22:07 | THE NEARLY 200,000 BLACK MEN WHO PUT ON UNITED STATES UNIFORMS AND INFLUENCED TO AN AMAZING DEGREE HOW THE WAR PLAYED OUT FROM ABOUT MID 1863ON WARD. |
| 00:22:20 | AND THAT IS IRE'S THING, AND I'LL PASS IT TO HIM. |
| 00:22:25 | >> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THAT GREAT SEGUEWAY. |
| 00:22:26 | MY JOB IS TO SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THE MEN AND WOMEN WHO ARE AT THE CENTER OF THE CIVIL WAR, AND WHOSE TRANSFORMATION FROM SLAVES INTO FREE PEOPLE IS, OF COURSE, THE DEFINING EVENT OF THE CIVIL WAR. |
| 00:22:45 | AND OF COURSE THE CENTRAL EVENT IN THE TRANSFORMATION OF THE NATION IN 1860. |
| 00:22:54 | IN 1860, THERE WERE FOUR MILLION HUMAN BEINGS WHO WERE CONSIDERED AND DEFINED LEGALLY AS PROPERTY. |
| 00:23:02 | WE GENERALLY READ THAT HISTORY BACKWARDS AS WELL. |
| 00:23:06 | THAT IS, WE READ IT FROM 1860, WHEN MOST OF THOSE PEOPLE LIVED IN THE DEEP SOUTH. |
| 00:23:14 | MOST OF THEM GROW COTTON. |
| 00:23:15 | MOST OF THEM SUBSCRIBE TO SOME VARIAN OF AFRO-CHRISTIANITY. |
| 00:23:24 | THAT, OF COURSE, IS NOT TRUE FOR MOST OF THE HISTORY OF SLAVERY IN THE MAINLAND NORTH AMERICA. |
| 00:23:31 | IF WE JUST GO BACK, SAY, TWO JEN RAGGEDSES -- GENERATIONS TO THOMAS JEFFERSON'S ELECTION, MOST BLACK PEOPLE DO NOT GROW COTTON. |
| 00:23:42 | CERTAINLY MOST DO NOT LIVE IN THE DEEP SOUTH. |
| 00:23:46 | AND PROBABLY MOST DO NOT SUBSCRIBE TO ANY BRAND OF CHRISTIANITY. |
| 00:23:51 | WHATEVER WE MEAN BY CHRISTIANITY. |
| 00:23:54 | SO DURING THE 19TH CENTURY, THE SLAVE POPULATION HAS BEEN TRANSFORMED, NOT THE LEAST BY THE ADVENT OF COTTON, BY WHAT WE COULD CALL THE SECOND MIDDLE PASSAGE MOVEMENT OF BLACK PEOPLE FROM THE UPPER SOUTH TO THE LOWER SOUTH, AND THEIR REMARKABLE EMBRACE OF CHRISTIANITY. |
| 00:24:17 | AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS WAR, THE CIVIL WAR, THAT ED AND GARY HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT, NOBODY PRESUMED THAT THIS WOULD BE A WAR OF FORCED SLAVERY. |
| 00:24:31 | IN FACT, JUST THE OPPOSITE. |
| 00:24:34 | FROM EVERY PERSON OF AUTHORITY ON THE UNION SIDE, BEGINNING WITH THE PRESIDENT, ABRAHAM LINCOLN, WERE STATEMENTS THAT THIS WAS A WAR FOR UNION. |
| 00:24:45 | THIS WAS A WHITE MAN'S WAR IN WHICH BLACK PEOPLE WOULD PLAY NO PART. |
| 00:24:52 | SLAVES, BLACK PEOPLE, BELIEVED OTHERWISE. |
| 00:24:57 | AND THEY MADE THEMSELVES AVAILABLE TO UNION TROOPS, RIGHT FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WAR, OFFERING A WHOLE VARIETY OF SERVICES FROM CLEANING CAMPS TO OFFERING DIRECTIONS, UNTIL IT BECAME OBVIOUS TO UNION SOLDIERS ON THE GROUND, AT THE LOWEST LEVEL, THAT THEIR SERVICES WERE EXTRAORDINARILY VALUABLE. |
| 00:25:25 | THAT, THE VALUE OF THE SERVICES OF SLAVES, MOSTLY AS LABORERERS, BEGAN TO WORK ITS WAY UP THE LINE OF COMMAND UNTIL IT BECAME OBVIOUS TO EVERYONE IN THE UNION SIDE THAT BLACK PEOPLE WERE EXTRAORDINARILY IMPORTANT, WERE CENTRAL TO THE WINNING OF THE WAR, UNTIL JANUARY 1, 1863, WHEN LINCOLN ANNOUNCES HIS EMANCIPATION BLOCK LA MATION. |
| 00:25:58 | NOW -- PROCLAMATION. |
| 00:25:59 | NOW PART OF THAT, ONE ASPECT OF THE EMANCIPATION PROCLAMATION, WAS THE CLAUSE WHICH INDICATED THAT THE UNION WOULD BEGIN A RECRUITING OF BLACK SOLDIERS, THESE 200,000 BLACK MEN, MOST OF THEM SLAVES, WILL BECOME AN EXTRAORDINARILY IMPORTANT ELEMENT IN THE UNION ARMY. |
| 00:26:25 | THEY WILL BECOME CRITICAL TO UNION VICTORY. |
| 00:26:29 | THEY WILL PLAY AN ENORMOUS ROLE ON THE BATTLEFIELD AT FORT WAGNER, AT PORT HUDSON, A WHOLE VARIETY OF IMPORTANT BATTLES. |
| 00:26:40 | BUT PERHAPS MORE THAN THAT, THIS TRANSFORMATION OF BLACK MEN INTO SOLDIERS MARKS A KEY TRANSFORMATION IN WHAT THE GARY RIGHTLY CALLED A REVOLUTION. |
| 00:26:54 | AND LET ME JUST SAY JUST A BIT ABOUT THAT REVOLUTION AND THE WAY IT AFFECTS BLACK LIFE AND THE WAY IT AFFECTS AMERICAN LIFE. |
| 00:27:02 | IF WE BEGIN AT THE BEGINNING OF THE CIVIL WAR, MOST BLACK PEOPLE ARE SLAVES. |
| 00:27:08 | BY THE END OF THE CIVIL WAR, THEY HAVE GONE THROUGH A TRANSFORMATION, WHICH HAS MADE THEM FREE PEOPLE. |
| 00:27:14 | WHICH HAS MADE THEM SOLDIERS IN A VICTORIOUS -- IN THE WORLD'S MOST POWERFUL ARMY, WHICH HAS MADE THEM CITIZENS, WHICH HAS MADE THEM BY THE BEGINNING OF RADICAL RECONSTRUCTION IN THE SPRING OF 1867, WHICH HAS MADE THEM OFFICE HOLDERS. |
| 00:27:33 | THINK ABOUT THAT. |
| 00:27:34 | FROM SLAVE TO FREE TO SOLDIER IN THE WORLD'S MOST POWERFUL ARMY TO VOTER, TO CITIZEN. |
| 00:27:44 | IF YOU CAN DO THAT IN SIX SHORT YEARS, THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU MIGHT DO IN 20 YEARS. |
| 00:27:50 | THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU MIGHT DO IN A LIFETIME. |
| 00:27:55 | THIS REVOLUTIONARY TRANSFORMATION EMPOWERS A PEOPLE. |
| 00:27:58 | GIVES THEM A SENSE THAT THEY CAN TRANSFORM THE WORLD, TO MAKE IT OVER. |
| 00:28:04 | AND THAT SENSE THAT THE WORLD CAN BE MADE OVER AND THAT PEOPLE AT THE BOTTOM CAN SEE A VIEW OF A LIFE WHICH IS RADICALLY DIFFERENT THAN THEIR PARENTS LIVED, RADICALLY DIFFERENT THAN PROBABLY ALMOST ANYTHING THEY COULD IMAGINE AS YOUNGSTERS, AS TEENAGERS, AS ADULTS IN 1860, IS WHAT, OF COURSE, MAKES THE CIVIL WAR THIS CENTRAL EVENT IN OUR HISTORY. |
| 00:28:36 | WHY DON'T I STOP THERE, AND WE CAN LEAVE SOME TIME FOR QUESTIONS. |
| 00:28:47 | >> ANY QUESTIONS? |
| 00:28:48 | PLEASE USE THE MIKE RIGHT BEHIND YOU. |
| 00:28:57 | >> I JUST HAVE A QUICK QUESTION ABOUT -- WE HEAR TODAY THE TALK ABOUT RECONSTRUCTION, PLANNING FOR A RECONSTRUCTION OR POSTWAR RECONSTRUCTION. |
| 00:29:08 | IF YOU WANT TO -- IF ANY OF YOU, DEAN AYERS OR PROFESSOR GALLAGHER WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE PLANNING FOR RECONSTRUCTION DURING THE WAR, WHEN IT BEGAN, AND HOW THAT KIND OF PLAYED OUT. |
| 00:29:21 | WERE THERE PLANS, OR DID THEY KEEP CHANGING IT ALONG THE WAY? |
| 00:29:25 | >> I'LL BEGIN. |
| 00:29:26 | THAT'S A VERY GOOD QUESTION. |
| 00:29:30 | AND I'LL BEGIN. |
| 00:29:31 | ABRAHAM LINCOLN'S FUNDAMENTAL PREMISE ALL ALONG WAS THAT MOST WHITE SOUTHERNERS REALLY WANTED TO REMAIN IN THE UNION, AND THAT IF HE COULD JUST DECAPITATE THE SECESSIONIST LEADERSHIP. |
| 00:29:50 | SO HE DIDN'T THINK -- HE KEPT ASSUMING -- AND YOU CAN UNDERSTAND THE VARIOUS DECISIONS HE MADE BASICALLY IN LIGHT OF HIM THINKING THAT'S GOING TO BE THE CASE. |
| 00:29:58 | HE CAN'T BELIEVE THAT THE -- FIRST OF ALL, HE CAN'T BELIEVE THE SOUTH WAS GOING TO SECEDE IN THE FIRST PLACE. |
| 00:30:04 | THEY HAD BEEN TALKING ABOUT IT FOR SO LONG. |
| 00:30:06 | A LOT OF HOT AIR. |
| 00:30:07 | HE DOESN'T THINK THAT THESE SECESSIONISTS REALLY SPEAK FOR THE SOUTHERN MAJORITY AND THAT THE GOOD WHITE SOUTHERN MAJORITY OF MEN WILL STOP THIS AT SOME POINT. |
| 00:30:16 | AT EACH STEP, HE IS STRIDSE TO FIND OUT THEY JUST -- SURPRISED TO FIND OUT THEY JUST KEEP PUSHING. |
| 00:30:26 | IF HAD JUST BEEN THE ORIGINAL SEVEN THAT SECEDED, WHAT WE THINK OF AS THE CIVIL WAR WOULD HAVE BEEN A DIFFERENT SORT OF THING AND MIGHT NOT HAVE OCCURRED ANYTHING LIKE THE SCALE THAT WE KNOW. |
| 00:30:36 | BUT HE WAS SURPRISED TO SEE THAT A STATE LIKE VIRGINIA, THAT HAD BEEN SO CRUCIAL TO FOUNDING THE UNION WOULD EVEN THINK ABOUT DESTROYING IT. |
| 00:30:44 | SO HIS IDEAS FOR RECONSTRUCTION AT EVERY STEP ALONG THE WAY IS LET'S DON'T PUSH TOO HARD TOO FAST FOR BLACK FREEDOM OR FOR TRYING TO DESTROY THE POWER OF THE PLANTER CLASS, BECAUSE WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS BE THINKING ABOUT RECONSTRUCTION FROM THE VERY BEGINNING OF THE WAR, HOW DO WE PULL THINGS BACK TOGETHER. |
| 00:31:03 | THAT WAS OF COURSE WAS THE PURPOSE OF THE WAR IN THE FIRST PLACE, WAS TO PULL THINGS BACK TOGETHER. |
| 00:31:08 | SO YOU HAVE ON ONE HAND AS IRA SAYS THE CREATION OF THE MOST POWERFUL ARMY IN THE WORLD IN ORDER TO SUBJUGATE THE SOUTH. |
| 00:31:16 | ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU HAVE THE IDEA THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO SUBJUGATE THEM SO MUCH THAT THEY WON'T COME BACK IN. |
| 00:31:22 | AND WHAT HAPPENS OVER THE COURSE OF THE WAR, IS THE THING THAT THE WHITE SOUTH FEARED MOST OF ALL, IS ENDING SLAVERY. |
| 00:31:29 | ONCE THAT GOES, IT'S PARTLY BECAUSE THEY DECIDE THAT THE WHITE SOUTH CANNOT BE RECONSTRUCTED JUST THROUGH PERSUASION. |
| 00:31:35 | AS GARY HAS SHOWN US SO WELL IN HIS EARLIER BOOKS, THE WHITE SOUTH ACTUALLY MOBILIZED VERY THOROUGHLY AND TENACIOUSLY IN SUPPORT OF THIS BRAND-NEW NATION THAT NONE OF THEM HAD IMAGINED BEFORE. |
| 00:31:47 | SO RECONSTRUCTION BEGINS DURING THE COURSE OF THE WAR ITSELF. |
| 00:31:51 | AND I WILL LET IRA TALK ABOUT THE AFRICAN AMERICAN PART OF ALL OF THAT, BECAUSE VERY EARLY ON, PEOPLE START EXPERIMENTING WITH WHAT THE RECONSTRUCTED AFRICAN AMERICAN LIFE MIGHT LOOK LIKE IN THE SOUTH. |
| 00:32:04 | SO I THINK THAT PEOPLE SO OFTEN THINK OF RECONSTRUCTION AS JUST A PERIOD THAT FOLLOWS THE WAR, AND THEY CONFUSE IT WITH PHYSICAL REBUILDING WHEN IN FACT WHAT IT REALLY MEANT WAS THE RECONSTRUCTION OF THE UNION. |
| 00:32:17 | AND IN MANY WAYS, THAT BEGAN AS SOON AS THE WAR BEGAN, AT LEAST IN WHITE NORTHERN PLANNING. |
| 00:32:23 | >> I'LL JUST SAY VERY BRIEFLY, IT INVOLVES -- THERE'S A TREMENDOUS DEBATE IN THE COURSE OF THE WAR. |
| 00:32:30 | PART OF THE DEBATE IS WHETHER CONGRESS OR THE EXECUTIVE WILL CONTROL THE PROCESS OF RECONSTRUCTION, AND PART OF THE DEBATE IS HOW HIGH A PRICE IS THE WHITE SOUTH GOING TO HAVE TO PAY FOR ITS EXPERIMENT IN REBELLION. |
| 00:32:42 | AND LINCOLN AND ESPECIALLY THE RADICAL WING OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY HAD VERY DIFFERENT IDEAS ABOUT HOW RECONSTRUCTION SHOULD BE ACCOMPLISHED. |
| 00:32:51 | LINCOLN SET UP GOVERNMENTS IN VARIOUS CONFEDERATE STATES WHERE THE UNITED STATES ARMY HAD A SUBSTANTIAL PRESENCE, AND TRIED TO GET THE PROCESS GOING VERY EARLY. |
| 00:32:59 | HE ANNOUNCED HIS PLANS IN LATE 1863 DOES HEN TRIED TO -- AND THEN TRIED TO SET UP THESE GOVERNMENTS. |
| 00:33:07 | CONGRESS MADE IT CLEAR THEY HAD A VERY DIFFERENT AND A MUCH HARSHER VIEW OF THE PENALTIES THAT THE WHITE SOUTH SHOULD HAVE TO PAY. |
| 00:33:17 | THEY COULDN'T JUST WALTZ BACK. |
| 00:33:20 | MANY OF THE RADICAL LEADERS SAID NO. |
| 00:33:23 | >> THE RECONSTRUCTION, WHICH GARY MENTIONED, IS THE POLICY RECONSTRUCTION, THE BATTLE BETWEEN CONGRESS AND THE EXECUTIVE OVER WHAT THE NATION IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE. |
| 00:33:34 | AND PARTICULARLY WHAT THE SOUTH IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE ONCE A VICTORY HAS BEEN ACHIEVED. |
| 00:33:40 | BUT THERE'S ALSO ANOTHER RECONSTRUCTION GOING OAND THAT RECONSTRUCTION, OF COURSE, IS WHAT EXACTLY PLACE THESE FORMER SLAVES ARE GOING TO PLAY IN THE AMERICAN REPUBLIC. |
| 00:33:55 | THAT BEGINS AGAIN ALMOST AS SOON AS THE WAR BEGINS, AND IN NOVEMBER OF 1861, WHEN THE UNION NAVY CAPTURES THOSE SEA ISLANDS OFF THE COAST OF GEORGIA AND SOUTH CAROLINA, ABOLITIONISTS, BLACK AND WHITE, RUSHED TO THOSE ISLANDS AND BEGIN AN EXPERIMENT OF FREE LABOR. |
| 00:34:17 | BEGIN TO THINK ABOUT THESE QUESTIONS OF HOW BLACK PEOPLE ARE GOING TO RELATE TO QUESTIONS OF PRODUCTION, QUESTIONS OF INDEPENDENCEY, OF DOMESTIC LIFE, OF RELIGIOUS LIFE, AT THE BEGINNING OF THE WAR. |
| 00:34:32 | AND THOSE VARIOUS EXPERIMENTS CONTINUED TO GO ON THROUGHOUT THE SOUTH AS THE UNION ARMY ADVANCES. |
| 00:34:41 | BY THE SUMMER OF 1862, THEY HAVE ADVANCED FAR ENOUGH THAT IT'S ELEVATED TO A POLICY LEVEL . |
| 00:34:50 | THE SECRETARY OF WAR APPOINTS SOMETHING CALLED THE AMERICAN FRIEDMAN'S INQUIRY COMMISSION, A GROUP OF WISE MEN, PRESUMABLY TO COME UP WITH A PLAN FOR THE PLACE OF BLACK PEOPLE IN THIS NEW AMERICAN REPUBLIC. |
| 00:35:09 | AND OF COURSE THAT WILL CONTINUE AND EVENTUALLY MELLED INTO THE FREEDMAN'S BUREAU AND A VARIETY OF THINGS ITSELF. |
| 00:35:18 | SO THIS EXPERIMENTING, THE QUESTION OF BLACK PEOPLE IN THE REPUBLIC, YOU KNOW, IS GOING ON, AND OF COURSE AN EXPERIMENT -- A DEBATE IN WHICH BLACK PEOPLE THEMSELVES OFTEN FIND IT DIFFICULT TO FIND A PLACE AT THE TABLE. |
| 00:35:33 | WE SHOULD ALSO MENTION SOMETHING ELSE THAT'S GOING ON IN TERMS OF WHAT THE NATION IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE. |
| 00:35:41 | BECAUSE IN THIS PROGRAM TO REMAKE THE SOUTH, NORTHERNERS ARE ALSO THINKING ABOUT HOW THEY ARE REMAKINITjUUTaHPaH @ WELL. |
| 00:35:50 | THAT IS THIS QUESTION OF FREE LABOR. |
| 00:35:54 | WHAT EXACTLY IT'S GOING TO MEAN. |
| 00:35:55 | TODAY WE USE THE WORD FREEDOM IN OUR POLITICAL VOCABULARY IN A VERY CASUAL WAY, OPERATION IRAQI FREEDOM. |
| 00:36:06 | WHAT EXACTLY DOES FREEDOM MEAN? |
| 00:36:08 | IN THE 19TH CENTURY, FOR CERTAIN, AND PROBABLY TODAY AS WELL OF COURSE, BUT IN THE 19TH CENTURY FOR CERTAIN, THE MEANING OF FREEDOM, WHAT EXACTLY FREEDOM MEANT, WAS SOMETHING THAT'S VERY MUCH AT ISSUE AND IT'S AT ISSUE NOT SIMPLY IN THE SOUTH BUT ALSO IN THE NORTH. |
| 00:36:25 | IS FREEDOM GOING TO MEAN SIMPLY THE RIGHT TO SELL ONE'S LABOR IN THE MARKETPLACE? |
| 00:36:31 | IS THAT WHAT FREEDOM MEANS? |
| 00:36:33 | OR DOES FREEDOM MEAN OWNING PROPERTY? |
| 00:36:38 | A PRODUCTIVE PROPERTY AND GAINING A SENSE OF INDEPENDENCE FROM THAT PRODUCTIVE PROPERTY? |
| 00:36:48 | THOSE TWO DEFINITIONS OF FREEDOM TAKE PEOPLE IN VERY, VERY DIFFERENT -- VERY, VERY DIFFERENT WAYS. |
| 00:36:54 | AND THERE'S ENORMOUS DISAGREEMENT, THAT IS THOSE PEOPLE WHO SEE FREEDOM ROOTED IN THE CONTROL OVER PRODUCTIVE PROPERTY VIEW WAGE LABOR, VIEW WAGE LABOR AS A FORM OF DEPENDENCY, WHICH IS A FORM OF SLAVERY. |
| 00:37:12 | AND HENCE THIS DEBATE OVER WHAT EXACTLY FREEDOM IS GOING TO BE, WHAT ROLE DO BLACK PEOPLE PLAY, IS A DEBATE WHICH RESONATES THROUGHOUT THE NATION. |
| 00:37:22 | >> AND I CAN'T HELP ADDING ON TO THAT JUST A LITTLE BIT, THAT THERE'S ALSO A DEBATE ABOUT WHAT FREEDOM MEANS AMONG WHITE AMERICANS AS WELL. |
| 00:37:31 | BOTH SIDES USE -- THEIR RHETORIC IS SHOT THROUGH WITH THE USE OF THE WORD "FREEDOM" IN 1960 AND 1861, DURING THE SECESSION CRISIS AND DURING THE FIRST GREAT MUSTER OF THE ARMIES. |
| 00:37:44 | BOTH SIDES TALK ABOUT DEFENDING THEIR FREEDOM. |
| 00:37:46 | FREEDOM AND LIBERTY. |
| 00:37:47 | BOTH COME UP ON BOTH SIDES BUT THEY OFTEN MEAN VERY DIFFERENT THINGS. |
| 00:37:51 | WE NEED TO BE VERY CAREFUL IN OUR UNDERSTANDING OF MID-19TH CENTURY USAGE IN TERMS OF LOOKING AT THESE WORDS THAT ARE CRUCIAL, AND WE SEE FREQUENTLY. |
| 00:38:02 | WE CAN'T ASSUME THAT THEY ALWAYS MEAN ONE THING. |
| 00:38:04 | THEY MEANT DIFFERENT THINGS TO DIFFERENT PEOPLE, BUT THEY MEANT A GREAT DEAL TO ALMOST EVERYONE, WHETHER BLACK OR WHITE OR NORTH OR SOUTH. |
| 00:38:10 | THESE WORDS ARE VERY IMPORTANT. |
| 00:38:12 | >> DEEPLY INVESTED. |
| 00:38:13 | >> ABSOLUTELY INVESTED. |
| 00:38:14 | BUT THEY DON'T MEAN THE SAME THING TO DIFFERENT GROUPS OF PEOPLE. |
| 00:38:18 | >> JUST AS GARY COULDN'T RESTRAIN HIMSELF, NEITHER CAN I. |
| 00:38:21 | >> WE'RE NOT KNOWN FOR RESTRAINT. |
| 00:38:23 | ABSOLUTELY. |
| 00:38:24 | >> IN MY EXPERIENCE, IF THERE'S ONE SORT OF BASIC FACT THAT -- ABOUT AMERICAN HISTORY THAT PEOPLE DON'T KNOW, IS THAT RECONSTRUCTION AS WE THINK OF IT, RADICAL RECONSTRUCTION, DOESN'T START UNTIL TWO YEARS AFTER THE END OF THE CIVIL WAR. |
| 00:38:38 | I THINK PEOPLE TEND TO THINK OF RECONSTRUCTION BEGINNING IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING. |
| 00:38:44 | BUT OF COURSE THERE IS SO-CALLED PRESIDENTIAL RECONSTRUCTION FOR TWO YEARS, IN WHICH A LOT OF THE RADICAL CONSEQUENCES OF THE WAR WAS HELD IN CHECK. |
| 00:38:59 | THE WHITE SOUTH FOUGHT BACK AGAINST A VERY MODERATE APPROACH FROM RECONSTRUCTION THAT ANDREW JOHNSON WAS OVERSEEING IN SOME WAYS UNLEASHED RADICAL RECONSTRUCTION ON THEMSELVES BECAUSE THEY SEEMED SO RECALCITRANT. |
| 00:39:11 | SO THIS THEME OF CONTINGENCY OR A POSSIBILITY OF DIFFERENT OUTCOMES CONTINUES LONG AFTER THE CIVIL WAR SENDS. |
| 00:39:20 | THESE WERE ALL DEEPLY THOUGHTFUL ANSWERS. |
| 00:39:22 | I DON'T KNOW IF ANY OF THEM ACTUALLY ANSWERED THE QUESTION THAT YOU ASKED. |
| 00:39:25 | >> PLEASE USE THE MIKE, SIR. |
| 00:39:28 | >> WE HAVE A CAL THENIC ASPECT AS WELL. |
| 00:39:33 | >> THIS SESSION IS GOOD FOR YOU IN EVERY WAY. |
| 00:39:37 | >> JOE GIBBS KNOWS AS MUCH ABOUT FOOTBALL AS YOU GUYS KNOW ABOUT THE WHOLE CIVIL WAR, THE REDSKINS WILL FINISH 0-16. |
| 00:39:45 | I WANT TO TALK TO DEAN EDWARD AYERS. |
| 00:39:50 | HAS STEVEN J. |
| 00:39:51 | GOULD DROPPED INTO HELL YET, OR IS THAT EVENT STILL IN THE FUTURE? |
| 00:39:55 | >> I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THAT. |
| 00:39:56 | I DON'T HAVE THE POSSIBILITY OF SEEING THAT FAR. |
| 00:39:57 | >> ALL THREE OF YOU GUYS, I HAVEN'T HEARD ONE WORD ABOUT STATE'S RIGHTS. |
| 00:40:01 | I HAVEN'T HEARD ONE WORD ABOUT INTRODUCING THE -- I HAVEN'T HEARD ONE WORD ABOUT THE MONETARY POLICY AND THE BIG BANKERS IN EUROPE. |
| 00:40:12 | WANTED A CERTAIN POLICY, MONETARYWISE, IN THE U. |
| 00:40:15 | S. AND THE REGULAR PEOPLE THAT KNOW, YOU KNOW, WHAT REALITY IS ALL ABOUT DIDN'T WANT THAT POLICY. |
| 00:40:21 | WHY DON'T YOU THREE SAGES TALK ABOUT STATE'S RIGHT, AND THE MILITARY POLICY. |
| 00:40:30 | >> I MEAN, I HAVE -- I WANT A MINUTE ON THIS. |
| 00:40:33 | AND THERE'S NO POINT IN YOUR GOING BACK TO THE MICROPHONE, BECAUSE I KNOW WE'RE NOT GOING TO AGREE, AND WE COULD PURSUE IT OUT IN THE HALL. |
| 00:40:41 | STATE RIGHTS IS CERTAINLY SOMETHING PEOPLE TALK ABOUT A LOT, AND I LOVE WHEN I HEAR THAT, I LOVE TO ASK PEOPLE EXACTLY WHICH STATE RIGHTS THE PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT. |
| 00:40:50 | THE ONE THEY ARE CONCERNED ABOUT IS THE POWER TO IMPOSE STATE LEDGE SLAVE AGAINST THOSE WHO OWN SLAVES. |
| 00:40:58 | IF YOU WANT TO UNDERSTAND HOW IMPORTANT STATE RIGHTS WERE IN -- DURING THE SECESSION CRISIS, JUST READ WHAT PEOPLE -- AND LET'S SIGH THE PRESIDENT AND THE -- LATE TRY THE PRESIDENT AND THE VICE PRESIDENT OF THE CONFEDERACY, WHAT THEY SAID WAS AT STAKE. |
| 00:41:15 | THEY SAID IT OF THE SANCTITY OF SLAVE PROPERTY. |
| 00:41:18 | THEY WERE ABSOLUTELY UNQUIFF KELL ABOUT IT. |
| 00:41:21 | IT'S ABOUT SLAVERY. |
| 00:41:23 | SECESSION IS A PRE-EMPTIVE STRIKE TO PROTECT SLAVELY AGAINST A -- SLAVERY AGAINST A POTENTIAL THREAT. |
| 00:41:34 | SO IT IS -- WHERE DO STATE RIGHTS FIGURE IN THIS? |
| 00:41:37 | IT FIGURES IN THE WHOLE EQUATION AS IT RELATES TO A STATE'S POWER TO PROTECT SLAVE PROPERTY. |
| 00:41:43 | OWNED BY CITIZENS IN THAT STATE. |
| 00:41:45 | IS SLAVELY AT THE -- SLAVERY AT THE ABSOLUTE EPICENTER IN THE COMING OF WAR? |
| 00:41:52 | YES. WHOM CAN WE LOOK TO FIND THAT OUT? |
| 00:41:55 | TO THE PEOPLE WHO HEADED THE CONFEDERACY. |
| 00:41:58 | READ WHAT THEY WROTE IN FEBRUARY AND MARCH AND APRIL OF 1861. |
| 00:42:03 | IT'S ABSOLUTELY UNEQUIVOCAL. |
| 00:42:04 | >> A MINUTE WELL SPENT. |
| 00:42:09 | THANK YOU. |
| 00:42:10 | >> THANK Y'ALL FOR COMING. |
| 00:42:13 | MY QUESTION RELATES TO THE AFRICAN AMERICAN RELATIONSHIP TO THE CONFEDERACY. |
| 00:42:18 | I THINK IT'S -- THERE'S NO QUESTION THAT IF YOU READ THE CONFEDERATE CONSTITUTION, IT'S VERBATIM THE U. |
| 00:42:26 | S. CONSTITUTION WITH A SLAVERY CLAUSE INCLUDED, SO THAT WAS THE CORNERSTONE, AS STEVEN SAID. |
| 00:42:33 | BUT BY 1864 AND 1865, I KNOW AT LEAST ROBERT E. |
| 00:42:38 | LEE IS TALKING ABOUT ENLISTING BLACK SOLDIERS IN RETURN FOR AMMUNITION. |
| 00:42:45 | AND THAT BY 1865, THE CONFEDERATE CONGRESS ACTUALLY MAKES THAT DECISION, ALTHOUGH I DON'T THINK THEY INCLUDED IT AS PART OF THE DEAL. |
| 00:42:54 | WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT CONTINGENCY. |
| 00:42:58 | IS THAT AN AREA THAT HAS BEEN UNDERRESEARCHED TO DATE, AND THAT COULD HAVE POTENTIALLY CHANGED THE OUTCOME HAD THE CONFEDERACY MADE THE SACRIFICE OF SLAVERY FOR INDEPENDENCE? |
| 00:43:14 | >> YOU TAKE THE LEAD HERE. |
| 00:43:15 | AND WE'LL JUMP IN. |
| 00:43:17 | >> WELL, IF THE WAR WAS NOT ABOUT PROTECTING SLAVERY, THEN ONE MIGHT THINK THAT THE CONFEDERACY COULD HAVE CONSIDERED THAT. |
| 00:43:27 | AND IN FACT THOSE SUGGESTIONS ARE MADE. |
| 00:43:30 | THERE WERE ACTUALLY LETTERS WRITTEN TO JEFFERSON DAVIS, TO THE CONFEDERATE SECRETARY OF THE WAR EARLY ON, SUGGESTING IT. |
| 00:43:41 | THOSE SUGGESTIONS ARE DISMISSED OR ACTUALLY NOT EVEN REALLY CONSIDERED. |
| 00:43:47 | BUT THERE IS A KIND OF UNDERGROUND DEBATE THAT CONTINUES TO GO ON, PARTICULARLY AS THE CONFEDERACY FALLS ON THE DEFENSIVE AND AS THEY ARE LOSING AND LOSING AND LOSING BADLY, UNTIL FINALLY IN THE LAST MONTHS OF THE WAR, THERE IS ACTUALLY A LITTLE BIT TAKEN IN THE ARMY OF VIRGINIA AMONGST VARIOUS UNITS AS TO WHETHER THEY WOULD ACCEPT THE USE OF BLACK SOLDIERS. |
| 00:44:19 | I THINK IT'S KIND OF A WAY IN WHICH LEE IS PROTECTING HIMSELF AGAINST WHAT MIGHT BE AN OUTCRY AGAINST IT, AND EVENTUALLY LEE HIMSELF SEEMS TO ACCEPT THAT. |
| 00:44:31 | AND AS YOU SAID, THAT IN THE BEGINNING OF 1865, THE CONFEDERACY SO ACTS, AND AS RICHMOND AND PETERSBURG ARE COLLAPSING, THEY ACTUALLY -- THERE ACTUALLY IS RECRUITING AGENTS LOOKING FOR BLACK MEN WHO MIGHT FIGHT IN THE CONFEDERACY IN RETURN FREEDOM. |
| 00:44:56 | BUT THE REALITY IS OF COURSE, YOU KNOW, IN THE SPRING OF 1865, OBVIOUSLY VERY FEW BLACK MEN ARE VOLUNTEERING FOR THIS SERVICE. |
| 00:45:09 | AND HARDLY, YOU KNOW, ANY DO. |
| 00:45:14 | I THINK IT SPEAKS TO THE QUESTION WHICH GARY JUST ADDRESSED. |
| 00:45:19 | WHAT WAS THE CENTRAL PURPOSE OF THE WAR, WHAT WAS THE CENTRAL PURPOSE OF SECESSION. |
| 00:45:25 | AND THE CENTRALITY OF SLAVERY TO THIS CONFEDERATE DESIRE TO CREATE A SLAVE HOLDING REPUBLIC. |
| 00:45:35 | THEY JUST COULDN'T -- THEY JUST COULDN'T DO IT. |
| 00:45:40 | SLAVES ARE USED AS SOLDIERS THROUGHOUT THE ATLANTIC WORLD. |
| 00:45:44 | THE BRITISH USED SLAVES AS SOLDIERS THE WEST INDIES. |
| 00:45:50 | THERE'S A LONG HISTORY OF SLAVES AS SERVING THE SOLDIERS. |
| 00:45:55 | THE CONFEDERACY AND THE LEADERS OF THE CONFEDERACY JUST COULD NOT BRING THEMSELVES TO MAKE THAT DECISION. |
| 00:46:01 | >> CONGRESS, IN FACT, WHEN IT DID FINALLY PASS THE LEGISLATION, WOULD NOT TAKE THE STEP THAT LEE -- LEE SAID IN ESSENCE, IT'S A VERY PRAGMATIC SUGGESTION, HE SAID IF WE LOSE THE WAR, WE ARE GOING TO LOSE ALL OF OUR SLAVES IN THE TERMS SET BY THE UNITED STATES. |
| 00:46:19 | WE SHOULD TRY TO DO WHATEVER WE CAN TO AVOID THAT. |
| 00:46:23 | IF WE FREE SOME OF OUR SLAVES THAT WOULD FIGHT AS SOLDIERS, MAYBE WE COULD HOLD ON TO SOME OF THE SLAVES. |
| 00:46:36 | BUT YOU WOULD HAVE TO GUARANTEE THEY COULD CONTINUE TO LIVE IN THE PLACES THEY CAME FROM, AND GUARANTEE THEM THEIR FREEDOM FOR THEM AND THEIR FAMILIES. |
| 00:46:44 | CONGRESS FINALLY SAID YES, WE WILL ALLOW SLAVES TO FIGHT BUT WE WOULD NOT GUARANTEE FREEDOM. |
| 00:46:50 | THEY WOULDN'T EVEN GO THAT FAR. |
| 00:46:51 | IT'S A TREMENDOUS DEBATE. |
| 00:46:53 | AND IT REALLY SHOWS -- IT'S A WONDERFUL WINDOW INTO THIS VERY LATE WAR THINKING ABOUT JUST HOW CENTRAL SLAVERY IS TO THE CONFEDERATE EXPERIMENT. |
| 00:47:03 | IT SORT OF PITS THE ARDENT NATIONALISTS LIKE LEE AGAINST THOSE WHO DO HANG ON MORE TO A STATE RIGHTS VIEW OF THINGS IN A SLAVERY DOMINATED VIEW OF THINGS. |
| 00:47:15 | BUT EVEN LEE IS ONLY DOING IT BECAUSE IT'S A PRAGMATIC WAY TO MAINTAIN MOST OF WHAT YOU HAVE BY GIVING UP A PIECE OF WHAT YOU HAVE. |
| 00:47:28 | >> IS THERE ANY SENSE THAT YOU HAVE THAT OUR HISTORY OF THE CIVIL WAR IS LARGELY INTACT? |
| 00:47:37 | IS THERE ANY HINT THAT THERE ARE LOST HISTORIES OR LOST INFORMATION BASED ON YOUR EXPERT OPINIONS? |
| 00:47:48 | IS THERE YET -- >> YOU MEAN IS THERE ANYTHING LEFT TO SAY? |
| 00:47:51 | >> NO. |
| 00:47:52 | >> YOU'RE ASKING THE WRONG GUYS. |
| 00:47:54 | >> WELL, WE KNOW THAT LIBRARIES ARE GROWNS UNDER THE WEIGHT OF BOBS -- GROANING UNDER THE WEIGHT OF BOOKS WROTE ON THE CIVIL WAR, AND WE CAN SAY TWO THINGS. |
| 00:48:05 | ONE THING THAT THERE CERTAINLY IS MORE TO LEARN. |
| 00:48:09 | WHEN WE BEGAN THE FREEDMAN AND SOUTHERN SOCIETY PROJECT AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND, WHICH EVENTUALLY PRODUCED THESE VOLUMES UNDER THE HEAD OF FREEDOM, WE DID NOT KNOW THERE WERE ENORMOUS NUMBERS, HUNDREDS OF LETTERS, WRITTEN BY SLAVES AND FORMER SLAVES AT THE MOMENT OF EMANCIPATION WHERE WE COULD HEAR THE VOICE OF NEWLY FREED SLAVES SPEAKING ABOUT WHAT THEIR OWN DESIRES WERE, HOW THEY UNDERSTOOD FREEDOM, HOW THEY SAW THIS WORLD WHICH WAS GOING TO BE, YOU KNOW, TRANSFORMED. |
| 00:48:44 | MY GUESS IS THAT WE WILL CONTINUE TO FIND, YOU KNOW, NEW EVIDENCE OF THE HISTORY OF THE CIVIL WAR. |
| 00:48:53 | BUT I THINK PERHAPS MORE IMPORTANTLY, WE OFTEN TAKE THE EVIDENCE THAT WE HAVE AND RETHINK IT, RETHINK IT, WHICH GIVES US NEW INSIGHTS INTO THE NATURE OF THE CONFLICTc EDDIE'S WORK WHERE HE TAKES TWO COUNTIES ON EITHER SIDE OF THE LINE AND INSPECTS THEM VERY CLOSELY USING RECORDS, LETTERS, AND NEWSPAPERS IS TAKING EVIDENCE WHICH HAS BEEN SITTING THERE A LONG TIME, BUT BY PUTTING IT IN A -- PUTTING IT IN A CERTAIN CONFIGURATION TOWARDS ONE ANOTHER AND SQUEEZING IT HARD, YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOTTEN NEW INSIGHTS OF WHAT THE WAR LOOKS LIKE ON THE GROUND TO ORDINARY PEOPLE. |
| 00:49:41 | NOW MY GUESS IS THAT WE'LL CONTINUE TO DO THAT KIND OF THING, THAT IS INSPECT THE EVIDENCE THAT WE HAVE AND LOOK AT IT FROM DIFFERENT ANGLES AND SEE DIFFERENT THINGS. |
| 00:49:53 | >> I WANT TO KEEP ANSWERING, IF THAT'S OK, BECAUSE AS IRA SUGGESTED, IF YOU TOLD ME 12 YEARS AGO WHEN I BEGAN THE WEBSITE ON WHICH MY BOOK IS BASED THAT, A, I'D STILL BE WORKING ON IT 12 YEARS LATER, I WOULDN'T HAVE BELIEVED YOU. |
| 00:50:09 | BUT WE FOUND MILLIONS OF PIECES OF EVIDENCE OF VARIOUS KINDS ABOUT ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT INDIVIDUALS. |
| 00:50:15 | WHEN WE START COMBINING THE MILITARY AND THE SOCIAL, THE BLACK AND THE WHITE, THE FEMALE AND THE MALE, THE NORTHERN AND THE SOUTHERN IN THE SAME STORY, ALL OF A SUDDEN, IT LOOKS DIFFERENT. |
| 00:50:26 | TO GIVE YOU A QUICK IDEA, I HAD MENTIONED IN THE END OF MY FIRST COMMENTS THAT WE HAD I THINK WHAT IS ACTUALLY THE LARGEST SINGLE COLLECTION OF LETTERS OF BLOCK SOLDIERS THAT WE HAVE ANYWHERE -- SOLDIERS FROM ANYWHERE HAPPENED TO BE FROM MY NORTHERN COMMUNITY. |
| 00:50:43 | A ARTICLE WAS DONE ABOUT OUR WEBSITE CALLED THE VALLEY OF THE SHADOW. |
| 00:50:49 | YOU CAN GET IT TO TURN UP ON THE INTERNET. |
| 00:50:51 | AND AN ELDERLY HISTORIAN SAID YOU WOULDN'T KNOW IT, BUT THERE'S AN INCREDIBLE COLLECTION OF LETTERS IN THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES. |
| 00:51:00 | AND A YOUNG MAN HAD JOINED THE 54TH MASSACHUSETTS THERE IN PENNSYLVANIA, ALONG WITH THREE OF THE BROTHERS OF A YOUNG WOMAN HE HAD JUST MARRIED. |
| 00:51:11 | AND ALL FOUR OF THOSE YOUNG MEN WROTE LETTERS BACK TO HER THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE COURSE OF THE WAR. |
| 00:51:18 | HER YOUNG HUSBAND WAS WOUNDED AT FORT WAGNER, REALLY THE FIRST REALLY BATTLE WITH SHRAPNEL BUT MANAGED TO SURVIVE TO THE END OF THE WAR. |
| 00:51:27 | IN 1865, THAT YOUNG WOMAN MARRIED ANOTHER VETERAN. |
| 00:51:31 | HE LIVED UNTIL 1890 SOMETHING. |
| 00:51:33 | WHEN HE DIED, SHE SUBMITTED THEY CLAIM FOR A PENSION. |
| 00:51:38 | IN ORDER TO MAKE THAT CLAIM, SHE SENT IN ALL OF THOSE OTHER LETTERS FROM HER BROTHERS AND YOUNG HUSBAND TO SHOW THAT, AND THEN THEY SAT THERE IN THAT FILE FOR GENERATION AFTER GENERATION, BECAUSE THEY -- NOBODY WOULD HAVE LOOKED FOR THEM IN THE FILE OF HER SECOND HUSBAND. |
| 00:51:53 | SO WHEN WE BEGIN TO OPEN UP OUR EYES AND NOT JUST GO OVER THE SAME FIVE SPEECHES OVER AND OVER AGAIN, BUT ACTUALLY BEGIN TO REALIZE THAT ALL PEOPLE HAVE HISTORY, AND THAT HISTORY LEAVES LOTS DIFFERENT KINDS OF TRACES, THE STORY BEGINS TO LOOK VERY DIFFERENT. |
| 00:52:13 | THE MAIN THING IS TAKES IS A WILLINGNESS TO LET GO OF WHAT WE THINK WE ALREADY KNOW, SO THAT WHEN I GIVE TALKS THERE, IS ALWAYS SOMEBODY THAT KNOWS WHAT CAUSED A CIVIL WAR EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE NOT STUDIED IT. |
| 00:52:26 | THEY HAVE A STORY THEY HEARD FROM SOMEPLACE AND THEY'LL HOLD ON TO THAT IDEA WITHOUT ACTUALLY HAVING LOOKED AT EVIDENCE BECAUSE IT'S AN ARTICLE OF FAITH. |
| 00:52:39 | YOU FIND THAT THERE'S NO SUBSTITUTE FOR GOING TO THE EVIDENCE, AND THERE IS MOUNTAINS MORE THAT WE HAVE YET TO LOOK -- WHAT WE REALLY NEED IS THE HONESTY TO FACE IT AND TELL THE STORY THAT REALLY RELATES TO US. |
| 00:52:51 | >> THERE ARE SOME ELEMENTS OF THE WAR THAT SIMPLY HAVEN'T GOTTEN NEARLY THE ATTENTION THEY SHOULD HAVE. |
| 00:52:57 | AND THE MOST OBVIOUS ONE IN MY VIEW IS THE RELIGIOUS SIDE OF THE WAR. |
| 00:53:02 | YOU COULD PUT THE GOOD BOOKS ON RELIGIOUS TOPICS RELATED TO THE CIVIL WAR ON A SHELF ABOUT THAT WIDE, AND THIS IS IN A LITERATURE THAT RUNS TO TENS OF THOUSANDS OF TITLES. |
| 00:53:13 | IT'S A WOEFULLY UNDEREXAMINED DID I MENTION OF THE WAR. |
| 00:53:16 | IT -- DIMENSION OF THE WAR. |
| 00:53:17 | IT REALLY IS. |
| 00:53:18 | THERE'S NO END IN SIGHT, I PROMISE YOU. |
| 00:53:21 | EVEN WITH THE WELL-KNOWN MATERIALS, YOU CAN LOOK AT THEM WITH FRESH EYES AND NEW QUESTIONS, AND IT'S -- THERE'S A GREAT BODY OF EVIDENCE THERE FOR US. |
| 00:53:29 | >> SO WE SIT HERE AS UNINDICTED CO-CONSPIRATORS IN THE SPIRE TO CREATE YET MORE LITERATURE ON THE CIVIL WAR. |
| 00:53:37 | >> WE HAVE TIME FOR ONE MORE QUESTION. |
| 00:53:40 | MA'AM? >> THANK YOU. |
| 00:53:42 | WE HEAR A LOT NOW ABOUT THE QUESTIONS OF HOW POWER IS BEING USED TO HANDLE THE CURRENT WAR THAT WE'RE IN. |
| 00:53:51 | AND I HAVE READ THAT THERE WERE MANY ACCUSATIONS THAT LINCOLN TRULY ABUSED HIS POWER. |
| 00:53:57 | I DON'T NECESSARILY AGREE WITH THEM. |
| 00:53:59 | BUT I'M CURIOUS AS TO WHAT THE PANEL HERE THINKS ABOUT HOW HE HANDLED THE PROBLEMS THAT HE HAD AND THE APPROACHES THAT HE TOOK TO KEEP THE UNION SECURE. |
| 00:54:12 | >> BOTH LINCOLN AND DAVIS WERE ACCUSED OF ABUSING POWER. |
| 00:54:15 | THEY BOTH SUSPENDED THE WRIT OF HABEAS CORPUS AT DIFFERENT TIMES. |
| 00:54:20 | THEY DID ALL KINDS OF THINGS THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN INCONCEIVABLE IN PEACETIME, AND IN FACT THE CONFEDERATE CENTRAL GOVERNMENT BECAME FAR MORE INTRUSIVE THAN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT DID IN THE COURSE OF THE WAR, ANOTHER IRONY. |
| 00:54:34 | THEY ARE THE FIRST TO CONSCRIPT PEOPLE INTO THE ARMY. |
| 00:54:37 | THEY HAVE TAXES OF VARIOUS KINDS NO ONE WOULD HAVE ENVISIONED. |
| 00:54:43 | THEY HAVE IMPRESSMENT. |
| 00:54:45 | THE MOST POWERFUL CENTRAL GOVERNMENT IN AMERICAN HISTORY UNTIL DEEP INTO THE 20TH CENTURY IS THE CONFEDERATE GOVERNMENT. |
| 00:54:51 | IT'S JUST AMAZING. |
| 00:54:52 | >> IT'S INTERESTING IN YOU GO -- IF YOU GO BACK AND SEE WHAT PEOPLE OF THE TIME WERE SAYING, PEOPLE WOULD SAY WHY ARE YOU SO WEAK? |
| 00:55:01 | WHY DON'T YOU DO SOMETHING? |
| 00:55:02 | I THINK IT'S A GREAT SURPRISE TO STUDENTS WHEN THEY GO BACK AND SEE THAT WHEN LINCOLN GAVE THE GETTYSBURG ADDRESS, PEOPLE IN THE NORTH DIDN'T LIKE IT. |
| 00:55:13 | WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? |
| 00:55:14 | THAT'S NOT WHY I'M FIGHTING. |
| 00:55:16 | AND THE VIEW OF THE PAST THAT IT WAS FILLED WITH PEOPLE WHO WERE GREAT AND HAD ONLY UNADULTERATED MOTIVES NEED TO LOOK AT THE HISTORICAL RECORD, AND YOU'LL SEE THAT THE SAME ARGUMENTS THAT WE HAVE TODAY WERE BEING PLAYED OUT THEN TOO. |
| 00:55:32 | AND WHAT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO? |
| 00:55:34 | YOU KNOW, THE WAR IS FILLED WITH PARADOXES. |
| 00:55:36 | YOU'RE WAGING A WAR TO MAINTAIN A GOVERNMENT OF CONSENT. |
| 00:55:41 | HOW DOES THAT WORK? |
| 00:55:42 | YOU KNOW, HOW DOES THAT COME ALONG? |
| 00:55:44 | ARE YOU WAGING A WAR FOR FREEDOM, WHEN YOU HAVE ENSLAVED PEOPLE? |
| 00:55:48 | HOW DOES THAT WORK AS WELL? |
| 00:55:50 | WHAT YOU CAN FIND IS THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE IS FLEXIBLE THAT CAN BE MADE TO SAY JUST ABOUT ANYTHING YOU WANT IT TO SAY. |
| 00:55:57 | AND IN THE PAST PEOPLE MADE IT SAY JUST ABOUT ANYTHING THEY WANTED IT TO SAY. |
| 00:56:02 | SO I THINK THAT IT'S BECOME A COMMON BELIEF THAT ABRAHAM LINCOLN WAS TRAVEL ELLING OVER THINGS -- TRAMPLING OVER THANKS. |
| 00:56:11 | BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT HE COULD HAVE DONE, HIS RESTRAINT IS ALWAYS JUST AS REMARKABLE. |
| 00:56:16 | AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE VIEWPOINT OF AFRICAN AMERICAN SLAVERY, ALL TOO OBVIOUS. |
| 00:56:25 | SO -- >> UNLESS THERE'S ONE MORE QUICK QUESTION, I THINK WE'LL -- PLEASE, SIR. |
| 00:56:36 | >> WHAT PERCENTAGE OF FAMILIES IN THE SOUTH ACTUALLY OWNED MORE THAN ONE OR TWO SLAVES? |
| 00:56:46 | AND, B, IF IT'S A RELATIVELY SMALL PERCENT, HOW DID THE WEALTHY PLANTER CLASS MOTIVATE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE TO ENLIST IN THIS CAUSE AND MANY OF THEM TO GO OFF AND DIE AND DECIMATE THEIR COMMUNITIES AND THEIR LIVES? |
| 00:57:04 | >> WELL, THIS IS A CENTRAL QUESTION. |
| 00:57:07 | HOW DOES A RULING CLASS RULE? |
| 00:57:10 | WE KNOW THAT RULING CLASSES ARE, YOU KNOW, SMALL. |
| 00:57:15 | THEY ARE A TINY MINORITY. |
| 00:57:16 | THIS IS CERTAINLY TRUE OF SLAVEHOLDERS IN THE SOUTH. |
| 00:57:19 | IT'S CERTAINLY TRUE OF PLANTERS. |
| 00:57:21 | THAT IS, THOSE PEOPLE WHO OWNED MORE THAN 20 SLAVES. |
| 00:57:25 | IT'S CERTAINLY EVEN MORE TRUE OF THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE THE GREAT PLANTERS, OR THAT IS THE PEOPLE THAT HAD A HOUSE WITH PILLARS AND VE RANDAS AND MIGHT SIP A -- VERANDAS AND MIGHT SIP A MINT JULIP SOMEWHERE. |
| 00:57:46 | EVEN IF WE INCLUDE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE DIRECTLY RELATED TO THEM BY BIRTH OR MARRIAGE, IT REPRESENTS A TINY FRACTION OF THE POPULATION. |
| 00:57:58 | BUT THAT SMALL FRACTION OF THE POPULATION, A TINY FRACTION OF THE POPULATION, OF PEOPLE WHO OWN 50 OR MORE SLAVES, ARE CONTROL BEING A QUARTER OF THE SLAVE POPULATION. |
| 00:58:09 | THEY ARE CONTROLLING THE BEST LAND. |
| 00:58:10 | THEY ARE CONTROLLING THE CROPS, WHICH ARE PRODUCING CAPITAL, WHICH IS BRINGING CAPITAL BOTH INTO THE SOUTH AND INTO THE NATION. |
| 00:58:23 | THEY TRANSFORM THEIR ECONOMIC POWER INTO POLITICAL POWER IN A DIRECT WAY. |
| 00:58:28 | THEY HAVE WAYS OF IMPLICATING OTHERS IN THE -- WHO DON'T OWN ANY SLAVES, WHO DON'T HAVE THE -- WHO DON'T HAVE A CHANCE OF EVER OWNING A SLAVE IN THEIR LIFE, OF BEING IMPLICATED IN THE SYSTEM, INVOLVING THEM IN SLAVE PATROLS, IN THE SALE OF SLAVES. |
| 00:58:49 | IF WE THINK -- JUST THINK ABOUT THE INTERNAL SLAVE TRADE JUST FOR A SECOND AS A KIND OF EXAMPLE OF THIS. |
| 00:58:55 | IF YOU'RE MOVING A SLAVE FROM VIRGINIA, SAY, TO MISSISSIPPI, AND IF THE PEOPLE ARE WALKING THAT DISTANCE, THEY COULD PROBABLY WALK ABOUT 10, 15 MILES A DAY. |
| 00:59:06 | AND EVERY 10, 15 MILES, YOU'VE GOT TO STOP, YOU'VE GOT TO FEED THOSE SLAVES. |
| 00:59:12 | THERE'S A GROCER WHO IS MAKING A LITTLE BIT OF MONEY FROM FEEDING THOSE SLAVES. |
| 00:59:16 | THOSE SLAVES HAVE TO BE GUARDED. |
| 00:59:18 | THEY HAVE TO BE HOUSED. |
| 00:59:20 | AGAIN, THERE IS SOMEBODY ELSE WHO IS MAKING A LITTLE BIT OF MONEY IN THE SLAVE SYSTEM. |
| 00:59:31 | THERE'S, YOU KNOW, EXCHANGE RATES. |
| 00:59:33 | THERE'S ADVERTISEMENT FOR THOSE SLAVES. |
| 00:59:36 | SO WE BEGIN TO SEE HOW THE SYSTEM OF SLAVERY, EVEN THOUGH MOST PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, DON'T OWN SLAVES AND DON'T HAVE A CHANCE OF OWNING SLAVES, BECOME IMPLICATED IN THE SYSTEM OF SLAVERY IN THEIR OWN ECONOMIC LIFE, IN THEIR OWN PERSONAL LIFE, AND THEN WE CAN MULTIPLY THAT OUT MANY TIMES. |
| 00:59:57 | AND WE BEGIN TO SEE THE CONNECTIONS WHICH TIE THE MAJORITY OF WHITE SOUTHERNERS TO THE INSTITUTION OF SLAVERY. |
| 01:00:10 | >> ANY MORE COMMENTS? |
| 01:00:11 | >> WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR COMING. |
| 01:00:13 | THIS CONCLUDES OUR PRESENTATION. |
| 01:00:17 | [APPLAUSE] >> AND PLEASE VISIT THESE AUTHORS AT THEIR TABLES, AND BUY A SIGNED COPY. |
| 01:00:21 | EXCELLENT BOOKS. |
| 01:00:22 | THANK YOU. |
| 01:00:23 | >> THANK YOU SO MUCH. |
| 01:00:24 | >> THANK YOU. |
| 01:02:51 | >> IT'S |
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